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View Full Version : DISCUSSION - One reason why I am SMILING (and am hopeful about the WWE's near future)


Heyman
12-17-2003, 01:53 PM
<font color=white>Caution - The following may contain RAW spoilers. Readers discretion is advised</font>



DISCUSSION - One reason why I am SMILING (and am hopeful about the WWE's near future)

-Chris Jericho may be on the verge of a face turn. Plain and Simple. Out of all the wrestlers on Raw right now, I believe that Chris Jericho has the biggest potential to draw as a face. He has everything needed to be a top face in this day in age - mic skills, charisma, cockiness, and ability! If Jericho is pushed right (within the next half year or so), I see no reason why he can't be almost as popular (or even AS popular) as The Rock and Austin were during their peaks. Jericho, with Trish by his side, should be one hell of a pairing. Kinda like Savage/Elizabeth? ;).

Like I've said before - take a look at Jericho back in 2000. With the exception of The Rock (which was his peak), Jericho was the second most popular superstar on the roster. Truth be told - his face pops weren't that much less than The Rock's. Even in 2001 when The Rock and Jericho were initially starting their feud, the fans seemed to be siding more with Jericho.

Simply put - I really think Jericho can be a serious drawing card for the WWE in 2004. He is the "heir apparent" to The Rock in my view.

This leads to my next point......


The WWE should not reknew Goldberg's contract in my opinion......unless he's willing to have a long run as a HEEL :

In my opinion, Goldberg should be allowed to 'explore other options' after Wrestlemania. I am hoping that he faces Lesnar and Wrestlemania, jobs, and then leaves the company.

The problem with Goldberg in the WWE, is that he will never be happy unless he is ALWAYS the top face (so with this in mind, a guy like Jericho.....who has greater potential drawing power IMO, can't be top face). As recent reports indicate, Goldberg was FURIOUS that he had to job the title. He is also mad at the fact, that he isn't being pushed enough (or the way he was in WCW).

Basically, as long as Goldberg is a face, guys like Jericho, RVD, etc. will never have a chance to assume the top face position. If Goldberg loses his 'spot', he will always be unhappy.

My solution? - Have Goldberg turn heel at Wrestlemania

I say have Brock Lesnar and Bill Goldberg fight for the World title (title unification match). In a match like this, I'm betting that more than half would cheer Lesnar. This is the perfect opportunity for the WWE to do a heel/face switch between the two. Maybe Bischoff can come out and help Goldberg? (due to him wanting a "RAW" superstar to win the Undisputed world title). Goldberg wins the match and is now a heel.


This allows for a guy like Jericho to have a chance in being a top face for awhile. After Wrestlemania, I'm also hoping that Triple H (who turns face as well) will be preoccupied with his former heel Evolution members. Speaking of Triple H, it is my hope that he focuses more on the movie industry after WM....and starts working on a part-time-only basis like The Rock. Nothing against Triple H, but I feel that it would be a lot easier for new stars to emerge if he leaves.


So what was I saying? Oh yeah - Have Goldberg be heel. Let Jericho be the top face on Raw. Dare I say, let Jericho get a victory over Goldberg at Summerslam next year....to become the new World Champ. A face Jericho going over a heel Goldberg should be enough to put Jericho on that next level.

If Goldberg is unwilling to do this, then I say release him very soon. Plain and siimple.


Shawn Michaels and Rob Van Dam

Two other guys who I am excited about, are Shawn Michaels and Rob Van Dam. I love them as a tag team. I also think HBK can be used to help Rob Van Dam become a main-event face again. Think about this scenerio...

a)They start dominating in the tag team division.
b)After their run as tag team champs, HBK counsels RVD. He says something to the effect of, "You've got all it takes to be champ.....you just need to be more intense". Somehow someway, HBK lights a fire under RVD. We see RDV gradually improving due to a new "inner drive" (JR and King can start talking about RVD's "inner drive").

Sooner than later, RVD becomes a main-event face again....after gaining some solid victories.

Lo and Behold --> RVD becomes a potential drawing card once again.




p.s. Sometime either before or AFTER wrestlemania, I am in favor of re-uniting the rosters. Smackdown is seriously starting to suck. Why can't they just release like 1/3 of the roster (or 1/4th), and just make things like the way they were in 2000?

The CyNick
12-17-2003, 02:33 PM
Jericho as a face seems to be where they are going. However, HHH will never let him get the true top spot in the company. And if HHH turns face, which is very posisble, then Jericho is in the same position of being behind HHH.

Goldberg doesn't work as a heel. I hate it when people make suggestions that have already been tried and didn't work. The fans want to cheer for the Goldberg they remember form WCW, and when they get that guy they cheer him like crazy. However as a heel he was a total failure, so why go back to that? Its like turning Austin, dont do things that is totally against what the fans want just because it might be shocking. I think the WWE should let Goldberg go after Mania, just have him do a JOB to Brock and let him go on his way. At this point I dont think he has any real use to the company.

I dont think they are going to package RVD and HBK as a team, but its not the worst idea in the world since we all know RVD will never get a main event push. I could see one turning on the other, and then set up a match at Mania, which could be interesting.

I still think Smackdown has a ton of great talent, they just dont highlight the right guys. You look at the main spots, and they are being taken up by guys like Morgan, Train, Holly and the freakin Cat. If they instead focused on more of the CW's they'd have a much better show on SD, but they dont, so they wont.

As for bringing back the rosters, its probably for the best. Neither world title means anything as a draw, so they might as well at least unify the titles, if not unify the rosters. Only problem is that I think they see the split as a success, and while calling it a success might be a stretch, it hasn't been a failure at least in terms of ratings or PPVs. So I dont think its going away anytime soon.

Mr. JL
12-17-2003, 02:58 PM
Jericho has been a heel ever since Survivor Series of 2001! Jericho as face will freshen up Raw. Jericho's character is booked well. He's not like Kurt Angle where he changes from face to heel, back to face and then back to heel within a span of two months. He was a face for 2 years before he turned into the heel that he is today. He's now been a heel for about 2 years. Because the WWE has kept him a heel for so long fans are drooling in anitcipation for a Jericho face turn.

Good Post Heyman!

Heyman
12-17-2003, 05:20 PM
Jericho as a face seems to be where they are going. However, HHH will never let him get the true top spot in the company. And if HHH turns face, which is very posisble, then Jericho is in the same position of being behind HHH.

True - what I'm hoping however, is that Triple H would be embroiled in a long feud with former Evolution members. While this is going on, Jericho can then begin a program with a heel Goldberg.

Goldberg doesn't work as a heel. I hate it when people make suggestions that have already been tried and didn't work. The fans want to cheer for the Goldberg they remember form WCW, and when they get that guy they cheer him like crazy.

Goldberg doing what he did in WCW is not possible (from a WWE standpoint). First off, there were far more wrestlers in WCW if I'm not mistaken.....a lot of which were "no-named" jobbers. On WWE Raw however (relative to WCW), there are far less wrestlers. Furthermore, the WWE try hard to make every guy look reasonably good. Even if they didn't - how many times could Goldberg come out there and just "squash" someone? It works when you have guys like Rico, Les Resistance, etc., but then........."who's next?"

Do you really want to see a guy like Christian get squashed? Or a Matt Hardy?

Just as Austin beating up his boss is "old", I would think the same thing with Goldberg. Sure the fans still pop for it, but I'm not sure how much it really "means"......since it's been done so many times and the fans have become accustomed to it.

I would also argue that Goldberg isn't "loved" anymore. Back in WCW, Goldberg turned heel almost at the peak of his popularity. The fans simply didn't want to "boo" him. Now? Goldberg, a "WCWish" kinda guy, isn't really loved that much by a partisan WWE fanbase. In many instances, the fans 'boo' Goldberg.

If Goldberg were to go heel, I don't think the fans would have any trouble in hating him. Some decent cheers wouldn't be that bad either. If you notice, most great heels get decent face pops anyways (i.e. Jericho, The original Degeneration X, The Rock, Angle, Triple H in 2000, etc.).


However as a heel he was a total failure, so why go back to that? Its like turning Austin, dont do things that is totally against what the fans want just because it might be shocking. I think the WWE should let Goldberg go after Mania, just have him do a JOB to Brock and let him go on his way. At this point I dont think he has any real use to the company.

Works in theory, but will Goldberg really agree to JOB to Lesnar? (knowing that he would be released afterwards....or if his contract was still up-in-air). If he did, do you think there's a chance he'd pull an "Ultimate Warrior" and demand a huge sum of money up front?

I'd also be in favor of releasing Goldberg, but the WWE have also spent a lot of time in building him up. Furthermore, it would do wonders for an upcoming face if a heel Goldberg put them over.

I dont think they are going to package RVD and HBK as a team, but its not the worst idea in the world since we all know RVD will never get a main event push. I could see one turning on the other, and then set up a match at Mania, which could be interesting.

An RVD/HBK match would be sweet to watch. I wouldn't mind seeing RVD going over HBK at Mania', only to have HBK shake RVD's hand at the end of the match and then become his 'mentor' afterwards (or something along those lines).


I still think Smackdown has a ton of great talent, they just dont highlight the right guys. You look at the main spots, and they are being taken up by guys like Morgan, Train, Holly and the freakin Cat. If they instead focused on more of the CW's they'd have a much better show on SD, but they dont, so they wont.

As for bringing back the rosters, its probably for the best. Neither world title means anything as a draw, so they might as well at least unify the titles, if not unify the rosters. Only problem is that I think they see the split as a success, and while calling it a success might be a stretch, it hasn't been a failure at least in terms of ratings or PPVs. So I dont think its going away anytime soon.

Hopefully - you're wrong. I just don't understand why they don't release 1/3 of their current roster and then just unify everything. Not only would everyone get to work shorter and less grueling matches, but each show would be stacked. Angle, Lesnar, Cena, Guerrero, Jericho, Benoit, Goldberg, Kane, Taker, Booker T, etc., etc., etc.

And it's not like too many people would get buried. In 2000, everything seemed to work pretty good. Same can happen here.....provided that some of the 'bigger names' keep their egos in check and not whine too much if they aren't getting pushed right or getting enough TV time.

Corkscrewed
12-17-2003, 06:02 PM
Good post, Heyman, except that Goldberg wouldn't work as a face (both meanings) and SmackDOWN! is still the better show of the two right now, IMO. It's intriguing and has wrestling and is better organized at this point.

But Jericho should emerge as RAW's top face.

The CyNick
12-17-2003, 06:57 PM
Goldberg gets cheered like crazy when he's booked right. I dont know if you watched Summerslam, but in Phonenix they were going crazy for those 5 or 6 minutes that they booked him like Goldberg. Then HHH got in, and well we know what happened.

I'm not going to go deep in the Goldberg issue because its been talked to death, but no I wouldn't mind to see Christian or Hardy get squashed by Goldberg so long as it may lead to him being a draw. I mean you look at what they did in WCW, and ultimately it made the company stronger, so if everyone had to get squashed for Goldberg to get over, thats okay becaus eit could bring people to the arenas and increase PPV buys, which would benefit everyone. WWE didn't do that, and whenevr they book him like just another star, he doesn't get over. Thats why I think he's finished as a viable character in the WWE. I dont know how his contract is worded, but I'm sure he'd agree to lay down for Lesnar, since thats been the plan for a while now. If he doesn't agree, then just let him go.

As for the brand extension if they were to bring the rosters back together instead of HHH, Taker and other taking up the top spots on one show each, they will take up spots on both shows, which means guys like Benoit and others will have an even harder time reaching the top. In 2000 it was a different because HHH and Rocky were relatively new main eventers, and they had an influx of new talent that was sniffing near the main event. Problem was soon after when HHH solidified his spot on top and wouldn't let other get a snif at his expense. Since then we've seen the top guys refuse to do key JOBs for younger talent, thats the main problem right now. Nobody is allowed to get up to the main event level to create fresh matches and new stars. I dont see how re-unifying the rosters will help that problem.

Heyman
12-17-2003, 10:11 PM
Goldberg gets cheered like crazy when he's booked right. I dont know if you watched Summerslam, but in Phonenix they were going crazy for those 5 or 6 minutes that they booked him like Goldberg. Then HHH got in, and well we know what happened.

I'm not going to go deep in the Goldberg issue because its been talked to death, but no I wouldn't mind to see Christian or Hardy get squashed by Goldberg so long as it may lead to him being a draw. I mean you look at what they did in WCW, and ultimately it made the company stronger, so if everyone had to get squashed for Goldberg to get over, thats okay becaus eit could bring people to the arenas and increase PPV buys, which would benefit everyone.

Perhaps Goldberg squashing people is "passe".....and no longer HAS the ability to draw. Perhaps it's more of a nostalgia thing now. I mean - when Austin beats up the boss for instance, people still mark out. However - it's a "passe" concept and so it no longer has the ability to draw. Perhaps there is a parallel here?

Also - do you think it's possible that Goldberg was simply a "big fish in a small pond"? I mean - Goldberg was the f'cking man in WCW, but was he really "just as big" as guys like Austin, The Rock, or even a Chris Jericho for that matter?

Goldberg, as a main-event face, has been SEEN before. Perhaps this is why it can no longer draw. We haven't seen Chris Jericho get a main-event face run before. Since ECW had limited exposure, not many people have seen RVD as a main-event face. Because of this, perhaps both these men can be a bigger draw than Goldberg?



WWE didn't do that, and whenevr they book him like just another star, he doesn't get over. Thats why I think he's finished as a viable character in the WWE. I dont know how his contract is worded, but I'm sure he'd agree to lay down for Lesnar, since thats been the plan for a while now. If he doesn't agree, then just let him go.

I agree to an extent with what you are saying (it's very unlikely that the WWE will push Goldberg in the same 'squash' manner that he was in WCW), but I disagree with him "no longer being a viable character". Call me crazy, but I genuinely feel that the fans want to boo the sh</>it out of Goldberg (unlike when he was heel in WCW).

I think Goldberg would be an excellent heel. I think it would be refreshing for his (stale?) character. We'd get to see some feuds that we haven't seen before. Goldberg vs. HBK, Goldberg vs. Booker T, Goldberg vs. RVD, etc.

As for the brand extension if they were to bring the rosters back together instead of HHH, Taker and other taking up the top spots on one show each, they will take up spots on both shows, which means guys like Benoit and others will have an even harder time reaching the top.


In 2000 it was a different because HHH and Rocky were relatively new main eventers, and they had an influx of new talent that was sniffing near the main event. Problem was soon after when HHH solidified his spot on top and wouldn't let other get a snif at his expense. Since then we've seen the top guys refuse to do key JOBs for younger talent, thats the main problem right now. Nobody is allowed to get up to the main event level to create fresh matches and new stars. I dont see how re-unifying the rosters will help that problem.

Great point, but I don't think the glass ceiling will be quite as big as you say. I think there would be a SERIOUS outcry and protest if guys like Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle (who are bonafide established main-eventers now) were to be buried by Triple H.

If anything, I think the glass ceiling could be eliminated. I think guys like Angle and Lesnar could serve as a "bridge" of sorts between Triple H/Goldberg (main-eventers) and guys like Jericho/Benoit/RVD (guys who should be main-eventing but aren't).

In other words, I think Triple H and Goldberg would job to guys like Lesnar and Angle if push came to shove. Guys like Lesnar and Angle, would be willing to put over Benoit, RVD, and Jericho in my opinion. Hence - a "bridge" is created and no glass ceiling. :).


p.s. Call me crazy, but I also believe that Triple H will do the right thing for the business when the time comes. Triple H has been earning a bit of my respect back of late. He not only has jobbed to Goldberg on consecutive occassions, but he jobbed cleanly to HBK the other night. Maybe I'm an eternal optimist. :-\

Heyman
12-17-2003, 10:14 PM
Good post, Heyman, except that Goldberg wouldn't work as a face (both meanings) and SmackDOWN! is still the better show of the two right now, IMO. It's intriguing and has wrestling and is better organized at this point.

.

When you say "better show", on what are you basing this on? In terms of ratings - Raw is the better show right now....and that's all that ultimately matters.

The minority of internet fans may enjoy the WRESTLING component of Smackdown a lot more than Raw, but most marks don't watch wrestling for "wrestling". They are far more intrigued with the sports-entertainment aspect of it.

Big Fat Mike
12-18-2003, 12:36 AM
ATTN : HEYMAN IS THE MAN.

BasicThuganomics
12-18-2003, 01:35 AM
Heyman, we all know you want to reunite the rosters, but its not going to happen...
so shut up about it! that would have been a good read if u hadn''t stated that you want the roster's put back together for the 1,000th time!!!!!

The CyNick
12-18-2003, 03:36 PM
Heyman, I love your optimism!

I just cant see Hunter doing the right thing at the expense of his spot. Yeah he might put over Brock or Kurt (so long as its 50-50 booking), but thos eguys are already main eventers. Would Hunter be willing to lay down for Benoit, or Guerrero without getting a win back? I seriously doubt it. So that means you'll have a situation where even more guys will be held back and never get main event spots. I guarantee if they brought the rosters together the top programs would be something like HHH/Brock, HBK/Angle and Taker/Goldberg. None of those fueds would do anything for the guys that need to be established like Cena, Benoit, eddie and others.

As for Goldberg is WCW, he was on par with Austin in 98, and at times he was ahead of Austin. Yes Austin did eventually pass WCW and Goldberg, but that was after WCW dropped the ball with the booking of Goldberg. I dont share you thought that people are dying to boo him. If that was the case why do people go nuts for him when he comes out, why does he draw the highest QH's on RAW? If the people want to boo him, they would have already. You look at Rock leading to Mania X-Seven, and then at Mania X-8, and then leading to Mania XIX the fans decided to boo him and thats what they did. They didn't wait for Rock to do a heel turn, they just wanted to boo him, so thats what they did. I think if Goldberg was hated by WWE fans (which is the case in some places, like here in Toronto) he would get booed, but it rarely happens.

Heyman
12-18-2003, 09:18 PM
Heyman, we all know you want to reunite the rosters, but its not going to happen...
so shut up about it! that would have been a good read if u hadn''t stated that you want the roster's put back together for the 1,000th time!!!!!

Sorry. :(. It's just that when something is so "obvious" (and in this case, re-uniting the rosters is an obvious solution in my opinion) I can't help myself. I just hope someone from the WWE reads this.........and that people on here KNOW as to WHY the roster split has no benefits.

As the saying goes - You throw enough sh</>it against the wall, some of it starts sticking. ;).

Heyman
12-18-2003, 10:38 PM
Heyman, I love your optimism!

I just cant see Hunter doing the right thing at the expense of his spot. Yeah he might put over Brock or Kurt (so long as its 50-50 booking), but thos eguys are already main eventers. Would Hunter be willing to lay down for Benoit, or Guerrero without getting a win back?

Probably not.....cleanly. If he were to job, it would be similar to how Taker jobs most of the time (i.e. getting screwed in some fashion). I do however, think that Triple H will do a clean JOB before he retires (or before he is about to be finished as a full-time wrestler....like Shawn Michaels did). I also have a feeling that there isn't much time left before Triple H calls it quits as a full-time wrestler.

As far as Hunter putting over a Benoit or Guerrero goes (with no intention to retire promptly), probably not. However - if he jobbed to Lesnar or Angle....who then in turn jobbed to a guy like Jericho or RVD, then those guys would get elevated anyways.

Think back to Summerslam 99' - Austin didn't want to job to Triple H right? He then jobbed the title to Mankind during the triple threat match. Mankind then jobbed to Triple H a few nights later. Triple H then established himself a bit within the next two months. A few months later, Austin jobbed to Triple H at a PPV (unclean....but still). Bottom line - Triple H still broke through the glass ceiling. Mankind was the "link" between Austin passing the torch to Triple H.

Similarly, Lesnar/Angle could serve as that "link" between Triple/Goldberg and guys like Jericho/RVD.


So that means you'll have a situation where even more guys will be held back and never get main event spots. I guarantee if they brought the rosters together the top programs would be something like HHH/Brock, HBK/Angle and Taker/Goldberg. None of those fueds would do anything for the guys that need to be established like Cena, Benoit, eddie and others.

Not neccessarily. Think about the rest of the guys. Benoit can get into another great feud with Jericho. John Cena and Eddie Guerrero can go at it....and so on. Think back to 2000. The Rock and Triple H dominated the main-event scene, but Jericho and Benoit still pulled off a great rivalry (and in effect, were over enough to be elevated). Once a guy like Triple H retires (or does become "benevolent" and decides to JOB ;)), Jericho and Benoit can be elevated.

Back in the late 90's, Austin and McMahon were the main focal point. Still - guys like The Rock and Triple H still fought against one another and go each other over.

As far as the 'need' to be elevated is concerned, I don't think anyone needs to be elevated unless they can potentially draw for the company. Can a guy like Benoit really do that if given the opportunity?

Heyman
12-18-2003, 11:38 PM
I dont share you thought that people are dying to boo him. If that was the case why do people go nuts for him when he comes out, why does he draw the highest QH's on RAW? If the people want to boo him, they would have already. You look at Rock leading to Mania X-Seven, and then at Mania X-8, and then leading to Mania XIX the fans decided to boo him and thats what they did.


Goldberg would get great pops if he was pushed in the manner that he was in WCW, but the WWE will never push him that way (due to them having a small roster [Raw compared to WCW], and also trying to get 'each and every guy' over [unlike WCW where they had many faceless jobbers]).

Goldberg does get majority of the pops when he faces guys like Mark Henry and Rico, but why does he get mixed reactions when facing the likes of Chris Jericho, and Ric Flair? When he fought Jericho on PPV earlier this year, it was a very mixed reaction. Ditto for Flair.

You can't deny the fact that Goldberg gets mixed cheers a lot of times....when he's facing opponents of equal calibre.

The best example is with The Rock.

-The Rock got booed when he fought Hogan
-The Rock got mainly booed when he fought Austin (I'd say 70-75% were pro-Austin at WM-19)
-The Rock got a mixed cheer when he fought Goldberg (probably close to 50/50).


Bottom line? - The way the WWE is pushing Goldberg, he will never be a face who can draw even CLOSE to the manner that Austin and The Rock did. .

Since the WWE are unwilling to push Goldberg in the manner that they did in WCW, I say one of two things should be done.

1)Release him.

2)Have Him turn heel.

I go with option#2 because

a)He is a 'big name' (which answers your queston as to why QR are highest when he's on TV.......this has nothing do with the fact that he's a face though.....in 2000, Triple H and Shane McMahon drew higher quarterly ratings than The Rock..who came in at 3rd).

b)Because of his 'star' status, a guy who eventually defeats him can go over huge. Remember how over Benoit was when he almost went over Austin in 2001? How about Angle?

The CyNick
12-19-2003, 03:12 AM
Goldberg would get great pops if he was pushed in the manner that he was in WCW, but the WWE will never push him that way (due to them having a small roster [Raw compared to WCW], and also trying to get 'each and every guy' over [unlike WCW where they had many faceless jobbers]).

Goldberg does get majority of the pops when he faces guys like Mark Henry and Rico, but why does he get mixed reactions when facing the likes of Chris Jericho, and Ric Flair? When he fought Jericho on PPV earlier this year, it was a very mixed reaction. Ditto for Flair.

You can't deny the fact that Goldberg gets mixed cheers a lot of times....when he's facing opponents of equal calibre.

The best example is with The Rock.

-The Rock got booed when he fought Hogan
-The Rock got mainly booed when he fought Austin (I'd say 70-75% were pro-Austin at WM-19)
-The Rock got a mixed cheer when he fought Goldberg (probably close to 50/50).


Bottom line? - The way the WWE is pushing Goldberg, he will never be a face who can draw even CLOSE to the manner that Austin and The Rock did. .

Since the WWE are unwilling to push Goldberg in the manner that they did in WCW, I say one of two things should be done.

1)Release him.

2)Have Him turn heel.

I go with option#2 because

a)He is a 'big name' (which answers your queston as to why QR are highest when he's on TV.......this has nothing do with the fact that he's a face though.....in 2000, Triple H and Shane McMahon drew higher quarterly ratings than The Rock..who came in at 3rd).

b)Because of his 'star' status, a guy who eventually defeats him can go over huge. Remember how over Benoit was when he almost went over Austin in 2001? How about Angle?

Couple of things about ratings:

When guys are turned heel when the fans really like them, it usually leads to lower ratings. Flair is a perfect example fo this. People in the know always shake their heads when Flair does a heel turn because almost always its followed by something like a .5 ratings drop the next week. Why? Because people love Flair and they dont want to sit and watch a show where they are being programmed to boo him.

Austin is another example. If you look at the numbers, Austin's heel turn (which the fans didn't want) was one of the main catalysts for the decline in business. Austin was an awesome heel by most accounts, but the point is the fans didn't want to boo him, so they turned on the product. Now dont get me wrong, that wasn't the only reason for the decline, but it was a major issue. To make matters worse they did the babyafce tease before Invasion, and then went back to heel at the PPV, which contributed to the problem.

I recognize Goldberg gets mixed reactions in some places, depending who he is up against, but you could say that about anyone. Cena gets a good reactions, but I'm sure if was in a fued with Foley he would get booed. Its posisble a heel turn could work, but from what I see at arenas people like the guy and history has shown he's a failure as a heel, so why go back to that?

The other thing is that the WWE has already shown an unwillingness to follow a simple formula that works for Goldberg, so why would they book him any differently as a heel? So now you're going to have Goldberg as a heel, he wont dominate over everyone, he cant cut a great promo, and he's nothing special in the ring, so how does he get over? It just seems like a plan doomed for failure. And if they were going to book him as a monster, why not do it as a babyface, which has proven in the past to draw money?

About Rock, HHH and Shane drawing ratings, I dont know where you got those numbers (they sound wrong quite frankly), but the point wasn't heels cant draw, its that the right heels can draw and the wrong heels can turn people away (as I mentioned with Austin and Flair).

Onto the Hunter issue:

Again I love the optimism with HUnter, but I honestly think Hunter will be an in-ring competitor for at least 5 years, and even that I think is conservative. Now, we might get lucky and he'll catch on in Hollywood, which would take him away from the ring, but aside from that (or a career ending injury) I dont see him stepping down. For a wrestler, he's still a pretty young guy, and he still has a healthy neck and back, so I dont see any reason for his career to end. Then you have the ego thing, and I dont see him going away anytime soon. I mean whose going to tell him to leave?

The problem with Hunter losing like Taker does is that it doesn't do anything for the guy who beats him. Cena beat Taker, but that didn't make him a star. Brock beat Rocky the right way, and that made Brock a star (ironically HHH then destroyed the work Rock had done, but thats another tale). So even if Hunter were to lose to Angle it wouldn't elevate Angle anymore than he already is. The other thing with Angle or Lesnar is that they are on par with HHH is terms of star power, so a win over HHH does absolutely nothing for those guys. Its like when HHH was fueding with HBK, both guys are seen as main eventers, so a win either way does nothing for either guy.

Hunter is a perfect example of how not putting people over the right was can do damage to a guys credibility. HHH wasn't accepted as a main eventer until he did the fued with Foley, who put him over clean over and over again, thats how you make a new star. What Austin did was politic out out of doing a JOB to Hunter, and when he finally did lay down it was done in a way that didn't make Hunter look stronger than Austin, which means fans still see Austin as the man, and it means that Hunter as champion looks like a paper champion. Foley did it the right way and made sure to make Hunter look like a badass mofo, something nobody else did up until that point had done for HHH. from that point on HHH was taken seriously as a champion and as a main eventer. The same exact thing happened with Rock. When he became champ, and how it happened he looked like a paper champ. Then Foley got a hold of him and made him a credible champion (specifically the Royal Rumble match). That in turn allowed Rock to do big business with Austin.

If you look at some of the champions since Hunter there hasn't been one who got the Foley type rub and as a result they drew less and less money. Angle won the title as a heel, and he got some wins over top guys, but all were done in a manner that didn't serve to establish Angle as a legit main eventer. As a result you had a WWE champion who was a mid carder. Same deal went down with Jericho, who granted got wins over Rock and Austin, but like Angle he never got that Foley type win where he dominated an established star. So its more than just laying down for a guy, HUnter would have to be willing to sell his ass off and make a guy look dominant over him, but I cant see that happening anytime this decade (and I'm being totally serious).

As for elevating mid carders:

I dont think Ive ever seen a situation where two guys became main eventers by fueding with each other. Yeah HHH and Rocky got noticed with their fued with each other, but that didn't make them main eventers. Rock took the leap to main events after the Summerslam match with H, but like I said before he wasn't taken seriously as a main eventer until his fued with Foley. Once again, you need a main eventer to put you over in order to really become a main eventer yourself. Same with Benoit and Jericho, I mean hell they've never been taken seriously as main eventers, except for a few occasions. I would say when Jericho was when working HHH is 2000 he was on the cusp of being a main eventer, but fell short with the Dusty finish on RAW, and then again he was taken seriously when he working Rocky in 2001, and Rocky was selling his ass of for him. The only time Benoit has really had main event heat was with Austin, but that was a short lived deal. Again, the point is anytime they were taken seriously it was at the hands of an established star who sold for them and made the credible in the fans eyes.

I would totally agree that not everyone can work as a main eventer, but the problem is that they dont try with anyone anymore because they dont have unselfish wrestlers like Foley who will put a new guy over 100% in order to make them. I mean everyone who has ever watched wrestling had to know how good Angle was, so why didn't he get a big Foley-esque win over Taker or Austin when he was a heel? It would have made him a viable star and he may have actually drawn some money. We've seen with Orton, Cena and Guerrero times where they could have made them stars with various key wins, but everytime the chance was passed up on in order to protect an established star. I just dont see that philosophy changing anytime soon, especially since from a financial standpoint the WWE is doing pretty well, now anyway.

Heyman
12-19-2003, 03:06 PM
[sh</>it CyNick. :eek:

You weren't kidding were ya? You ARE always right...............??? :P

p.s. Great feedback. Not sure what else to say since I agree with all of it. :$

BasicThuganomics
12-20-2003, 02:27 AM
Sorry. :(. It's just that when something is so "obvious" (and in this case, re-uniting the rosters is an obvious solution in my opinion) I can't help myself. I just hope someone from the WWE reads this.........and that people on here KNOW as to WHY the roster split has no benefits.

As the saying goes - You throw enough sh</>it against the wall, some of it starts sticking. ;).


Ok, but my point is that the WWE is probably not gonna reunite the rosters. So see if you can impress me by coming up with a solution besides simply reuniting the rosters. Because like I said before, it seems that you think that the only way to help the WWE out of its current slump is to reunite the rosters. As CyNick pointed out, even if the rosters were reunited, there would still be some of the same problems that already exist...