We are really witnessing the future of pro wrestling

[The Naitch]

Wrestling has gone a long long way. Know what I mean? I was watching WWE Vintage Collection (they show this in Canada, not sure if they do it in the States or UK) and matches from 2001 seem like a long time ago).

It's like it totally just crept up on us.

Majority of the old generation is non-existant, well not really. Things are rapidly evolving, by the influx of new talent and how quickly they've come up. Plus the whole HD thing. It's like we are waiting for the future to happen, but when looking at it, it's already here. Guys you wouldn't expect to me in top spots are. Like The Miz, Jack Swagger, Sheamus etc. You can't really predict what will happen in a year (except Cena winning). People are getting handed the title so fast, not because I think Vince likes to blow his load, but I think that's just the nature of the beast.

I don't know, I can't really explain what I'm trying to say, but you know what I mean?

[Droford]

and yet Ric Flair is still around

[Xero]

It's not the nature of the beast. They didn't build up enough guys between 2005 and 2009 to replace the old guard, then 2010 hit and they're all "oh shit, half of our draws are gone and the other half (outside of Cena) are on their way out".

Someone like Swagger never should have held the title, especially with how the run went. Sheamus was in the same boat as Swagger, but he stuck. That type of push shouldn't be happening more than once in the same year.

The talent issue is more of a lack of long-term planning, which wrestling as a whole is missing.

[The Naitch]

Instead of relying on old talent (Austin, Taker, Triple H) to carry the company, it seems that they really have faith in this new generation to carry the company into the future.

Nowadays it seems like the old guard are guys like Cena, Edge, Jericho and Orton, and they're there to give the rub to this new generation (Miz, Swagger, NXT, Sheamus)

I look at a guy like Sheamus and I think to myself, what the fuck is he doing holding the belt, but if I really think of it, (judging by this week's RAW) this guy is a gamer. He's decent on the mic. If you were to ask me a few years ago if this guy would be a top tier guy, I would've said hell no. He's impressing me. His skin is pale as fuck though. Looks disgusting :lol:

[The Pope]

I thought this was the present.

[Droford]

I thought this was the present.

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[The Pope]

and yet Ric Flair is still around

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[BizarroKing]

and yet Hulk Hogan is still around

[rated rjo]

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nice one sir.

[Tom Guycott]

They didn't build up enough guys between 2005 and 2009 to replace the old guard, then 2010 hit and they're all "oh shit, half of our draws are gone and the other half (outside of Cena) are on their way out"...

The talent issue is more of a lack of long-term planning, which wrestling as a whole is missing.


I agree in the lack of long-term planning thing. Remember when Cena and Orton's push was considered an "experiment"? Imagine if a couple more guys got that kind of treatment back then (I intentionally omitted Kennedy... Kennedy) Also, in that period, they were like the only two guys getting a legitimate slow building push, instead of the injury/departure fill-in role that someone like JBL got (not a knock on Bradshaw, but he kinda got the main event heel role thrust upon him fairly quickly and out of neccessity)

It seemed they were a bit more selective on who they wanted to eventually take up the mantle and slowly groom one or two guys at a time without planning for contengencies for injuries or departures, and it bit them in the ass.

[Tom Guycott]

I look at a guy like Sheamus and I think to myself, what the fuck is he doing holding the belt, but if I really think of it, (judging by this week's RAW) this guy is a gamer. He's decent on the mic. If you were to ask me a few years ago if this guy would be a top tier guy, I would've said hell no. He's impressing me. His skin is pale as fuck though. Looks disgusting :lol:

If Sheamus were to have everything he has now, only about 10 years ago, he would have been passed over because of the color of his skin. As a black man, the irony of this statement is not lost on me. In seriousness, he doesn't have "the look", but shows what happens when you look past that.

Otherwise, you just get Chris Masters.

[The Naitch]

IMO, the last time the "quick push" really worked was with Brock Lesnar

[Mr. Nerfect]

Watching RAW, I had that eerie thought, too. I'm not saying it's the ideal future, and I'm not disagreeing with Xero. I do believe this has been forced upon us due to a lot of the old guard being put on the shelf earlier this year (Shawn Michaels and Batista leaving; Triple H and The Undertaker taking time off). I got that thought during the promo featuring Sheamus and Wade Barrett with both their attention obviously being on the WWE Title. Going back a year and half, neither of those guys were even on WWE TV.

Jack Swagger also got randomly pushed to the top. He's probably the guy I think is best suited there, too, but for some reason he seems to be slinking down (maybe just to keep him humble and out of MMA). Looking at a lot of former rising stars, you realise that they've slipped into being seen as "veterans" now, and that a lot of them may never get that shot at the main event, which is kind of sad. We're definitely in a different spot -- regardless of if it is good or bad.

[The Naitch]

Alienoid summed it up perfectly, what I was trying to say. I had that eerie feeling watching RAW this Monday

[Droford]

Swagger wasn't suited for it, sheamus only is there because he's buddies with HHH. If Zack Ryder were buddies with HHH then Monday Night probably would have been WWE Champion Zack Ryder making Sheamus #1 contender and kicking the snot out of him in 5 seconds for the pinfall. Props to Sheamus for Taking the ball and running with it though.

[Brock]

yeah! but u cant blame vince.. he is out of superstars... guys like shelton benjamin,carlito,chris masters,bobby lashley,mr. kennedy,umaga etc. if they still around??? i know that they can do better than punk,sheamus,swagger,miz,nexus

[Wolfpack423]

Instead of relying on old talent (Austin, Taker, Triple H) to carry the company, it seems that they really have faith in this new generation to carry the company into the future.

Nowadays it seems like the old guard are guys like Cena, Edge, Jericho and Orton, and they're there to give the rub to this new generation (Miz, Swagger, NXT, Sheamus)

I look at a guy like Sheamus and I think to myself, what the fuck is he doing holding the belt, but if I really think of it, (judging by this week's RAW) this guy is a gamer. He's decent on the mic. If you were to ask me a few years ago if this guy would be a top tier guy, I would've said hell no. He's impressing me. His skin is pale as fuck though. Looks disgusting :lol:

Good analysis, though I think they're really only giving the rub to Wade Barrett as the others with the exception of Justin Gabriel don't know what they're doing in the ring, especially Tarver.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Swagger wasn't suited for it, sheamus only is there because he's buddies with HHH. If Zack Ryder were buddies with HHH then Monday Night probably would have been WWE Champion Zack Ryder making Sheamus #1 contender and kicking the snot out of him in 5 seconds for the pinfall. Props to Sheamus for Taking the ball and running with it though.

I disagree. The man can talk and is a great worker. The heat he was getting was also unbelievable. If he had been treated credibly on RAW heading into Money in the Bank, then he'd have been a lot more built for the role, obviously -- but as things stand, I accept him as a main event player.

[Next Big Thing]

Good analysis, though I think they're really only giving the rub to Wade Barrett as the others with the exception of Justin Gabriel don't know what they're doing in the ring, especially Tarver.

Slater and Sheffield have been in WWE developmental for 5 years and started on Tough Enough 4. I'd say they know what they're doing, it's just we haven't seen either one booked in a way that allows them to show more.

[XL]

I disagree. The man can talk and is a great worker. The heat he was getting was also unbelievable. If he had been treated credibly on RAW heading into Money in the Bank, then he'd have been a lot more built for the role, obviously -- but as things stand, I accept him as a main event player.
Agreed.

I can't help but feel that they are overlooking some potential stars in favour of hot-shotting young talent to Main Event status though. A guy like Christian might not be "young" and may not have "The Look" (would that make a decent moniker for someone?) but he connects with the crowd and you're guaranteed a good to excellent match from him.

It kinda narks me that people praise WWE for building new stars (and use it as a point of comparison against TNA). WWE haven't decided to push Sheamus/Swagger/Bourne or anyone else because they want to. They were chosen out of necessity cos there's no more Austin/Rock/HBK and guys like HHH/Taker/Kane/Mysterio are out injured or looking to wind it up.

We'll see how these younger guys do when HHH returns.

[The Naitch]

why is HHH gone?

[Testicle]

I think that the reason for the way the WWE is now is half what Xero is saying and half what Naitch/Noid are saying. And I believe that it is not neccasarily a bad change, but simply a change.

The WWE did not establish new stars like they should have, or did in the past, I attribute this to the Triple H reign of doom (2002-2004) and then the John Cena superman push (2005-?) both of which squashed many new potential stars.

However, I also agree that there has been a rather abrupt loss of talent in the last year, which would also explain for the numerous pushes for younger talent in an attempt to fill the void that was created.

[Xero]

why is HHH gone?

Injured and filming a movie.

[The Pope]

why is HHH gone?

He's in a band called Enginehead

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think that the reason for the way the WWE is now is half what Xero is saying and half what Naitch/Noid are saying. And I believe that it is not neccasarily a bad change, but simply a change.

The WWE did not establish new stars like they should have, or did in the past, I attribute this to the Triple H reign of doom (2002-2004) and then the John Cena superman push (2005-?) both of which squashed many new potential stars.

However, I also agree that there has been a rather abrupt loss of talent in the last year, which would also explain for the numerous pushes for younger talent in an attempt to fill the void that was created.

I'm still pretty upset they fumbled Christian and Matt Hardy in 2005. I don't think I've seen anyone cause a bigger stir than Hardy in 2005 (in recent memory, I mean). Now the momentum Hardy has behind him just perpetuates him as a mid-carder. Sometimes I think the WWE is afraid of money.

On the topic of the Nexus guys, I actually think Sheffield and Slater are pretty good. Slater I've not seen much of, but I like him just on the sheer basis that a lot of people here don't, and I've seen nothing horrible from him. His face character on NXT was so unnatural, and his voice sounds goofy, but someone like Paul Heyman would work his interesting vocals into a character. Husky Harris was sort of doing it, but I could easily imagine Slater as a slow-talking, seemingly dumb guy, who is actually a dark-minded, brilliant competitor.

I also liked the sound of his FCW character. He was a guy who hated second and third generation stars because he thought they had easy street, whereas he only had his own merits to get into the business.

My gut feeling is that the WWE really likes him. He was someone that was a large focus of FCW, and I believe he was rumoured for a call-up for a long while. Plus, he managed to eliminate Bret Hart, Chris Jericho & Edge at SummerSlam. The WWE doesn't let someone they want to future endeavour do that. Then he beat Edge the following night, and whereas a lot of the Nexus guys' victories were flukes -- Slater's just made him look cunning.

As for Skip, I just feel that the guy "gets it." He goes out there, and he plays the role he is meant to play to perfection. If he's meant to be a goof, he'll be goofy. If he's meant to be a beast, he'll be legitimately intimidating. I don't think either is as good as Wade Barrett, Justin Gabriel or Daniel Bryan, but I'd put them in a tier above Darren Young, David Otunga & Michael Tarver. Otunga is very, very green (and not ready for the in-ring stuff yet, in my opinion), Tarver is enjoyable as a character and presence, but his ring work is pretty...just there. Young I like, but there's nothing that has made him stand out besides his hair cut, in my opinion.

[Emperor Smeat]

I think HBK also played a big hand in getting WWE to focus more on the newer and younger wrestlers before he retired since he noticed how during the past years RAW never really built up new stars while Smackdown was able to create handful of new stars each year. WWE's plan was to just raid Smackdown's new stars for RAW and then send the RAW "failed" wrestlers to Smackdown expecting that show to rebuild them.

The problem occurs when Smackdown struggles due to lack of talent and interest by the WWE so RAW can't get any quality new stars while Smackdown would decline in quality as a show for the year. WWE sort of fixed the problem this year by having RAW develop some new stars (ex. Miz and Sheamus) while making sure Smackdown was developing stars at the same time (ex. Swagger and McIntyre).

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm actually wondering if there are too many young guys at the top. Not to complain, but you see that problem on SmackDown!, as entertaining as that problem might be. Jack Swagger, Drew McIntyre, Alberto Del Rio and "Dashing" Cody Rhodes are all fresh or young talent receiving heel pushes.

[Droford]

Injured and filming a movie.

not just a movie, but TWO movies!

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm actually wondering how much longer Triple H is going to keep going for. The guy loves the business and the limelight of being an active competitor, no doubt; but he's got a family now, and his injuries keep piling up (not at an unexpected rate or anything, but he's torn both his quads, etc.). It wouldn't surprise me if in a few years, Triple H is simply a GM-type character or something.

[Next Big Thing]

I see HHH slowly toning down his in ring days... maybe even going part time like Shawn, but I doubt he'll completely walk away or even take a GM role any time soon. He loves the business and the titles too much.