John Cena > Randy Orton

[Supreme Olajuwon]

It needs to be said. I really want Orton to work but he is beyond bland. And one move does not make someone a star.

On the other side, John Cena's been putting on consistently entertaining matches for a while. Not always the best, but the excitement is there.

So there we are. The topic is put forth. Do with it what you will.

[Aguakate]

You're right. Not much to say.

Orton is being given the push of his life, yet doesn't take full advantage of it...it's almost like he CAN'T take full advantage of it. He's got character shortcomings. He doesn't have much personality. He's a little dull. Doesn't have "it".

[XL]

Have to admit his interview segment tonight was weak. We could do with someone between Orton (monotone/boring) and Cena (constantly over excited/shouty).

[CSL]

Bland is harsh but he does have his struggles as a blue-eye.

[Volare]

Has the world exploded yet? Who seriously thought we'd be starting a thread about this? I sure as hell didn't but yeah it's true, Cena is bringing the goods when it comes to entertaining. Orton is just well...anger,growl,poundpoundpound,goofy wave of arms, RKO-DONE.

[Lock Jaw]

I find Orton is only ever as good as his opponent. Pretty much all Orton matches that I have enjoyed were because his opponent worked hard to make me "care" about the match.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

At first I kept making excuses for Orton. When his feud with Triple H sucked, I blamed Triple H for not wanting to put Orton over. When his feud with Batista sucked, I blamed Batista for being an awful wrestler. When his feud with Cena sucked, I blamed Cena for being a bad wrestler. When his feud with Sheamus sucked, I blamed it on Sheamus being poorly booked. But then his feud with Edge sucked, and it got me thinking. When was the last time Orton had a really good match? And to be honest with you I don't really know. He's been laying turds at pay per view after pay per view and some of it has to be his fault.

[SOCCER LEGS]

the cena vs. barrett match last month was way better than the orton barrett match tonight which speaks for itself.

yeah orton is not great as a solo act, and not as a face... he needs people around him... evolution, edge, legac

[Lock Jaw]

I remember last time he was a face, when I absolutely detested him. He had a match with Christian and through the course of the match Christian got me to invest into Orton and kind of "pull for him" in the way you're supposed to. It was an amazing feat.

[Juan]

Looks like Orton is suffering from the Edge "Once you're a face you're boring" epidemic.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Looks like Juan is suffering from the Juan's wrong again syndrome.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I don't see how you could possibly think that's the case here when I'm saying that John Cena is entertaining.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Also he was equally bland as a heel back during his feuds with Triple H and Cena.

[Emperor Smeat]

Orton's biggest problem ever since he got pushed as a tweener was him complaining every mistake or botch was due to someone else and then being upset while in the ring.

Cena has issues with selling and botching moves every so often but at the same time he doesn't shift blame to someone else either during the match or backstage.

Even though its been about 6-7 years ago since Cena's last heel run, he proved he could be both a popular face and heel character while Orton struggles unless he's a tweener or dominating face.

Still would rather watch an Orton match than a Cena match since it ends up being less predictable and routine than a Cena match.

[D Mac]

Nah, Randy rules.

[Mr. Pierre]

Nah, Randy rules.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Randy Orton is hit and miss with me. I've gotten excited about his current direction in the past, but I felt that they should have built him up for WrestleMania. Sheamus should still be the WWE Champion, in my opinion. Truthfully, I think the time is right for The Miz to cash-in his WWE Title shot and set up a program with Orton. The Miz is where it is at right now.

Orton suffers from a similar problem to Big Show, in my opinion. When he does much of anything for too long, it becomes boring and tedious. The guy needs constant evolution or he blends in with his scenery. I don't think sticking random guys with Orton is the solution, as Orton is definitely a "lone wolf" right now, but I do think that he needs a compelling program. Again, I suggest a feud with The Miz.

I say have Barrett chastise Cena for what went down, tighter the reigns on Cena, and command Cena to help him win the WWE Title when RAW goes to Manchester. Although it only happened last year, and it's not yet a tradition, I can see the WWE doing Triple Threat Matches again at Survivor Series this year. The Miz cashes in his WWE Title shot sometime prior to the event against Barrett, and we get The Miz (c) vs. Wade Barrett vs. Randy Orton at Survivor Series for the title.

Conversely, I think Cena has been the most interesting he has been in years. I admire how hard he is really working to get Nexus over. I think that each of the remaining guys in the group have the potential to be reasonable stars for the company, and I even think that they could stretch out this Nexus stuff to a WrestleMania match for Cena's freedom.

[Juan]

Also he was equally bland as a heel back during his feuds with Triple H and Cena.

I wasn't being sarcastic

[D Mac]

Also he was equally bland as a heel back during his feuds with Triple H and Cena.

What? That was Randy as his best. The souless viper.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I wasn't being sarcastic

Right, that's why I responded.

What?

[Supreme Olajuwon]

What? That was Randy as his best. The souless viper.

Oh. That's not good.

[Juan]

Right, that's why I responded.

What?

F**k you and your sorcery

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Oh I get it. Please accept this olive branch as a token of my esteem.

[VSG]

You stole this thread idea, Supreme. :nono:

Agreed nonetheless.

[Nicky Fives]

Orton is better as a heel, but WWE has nobody strong enough to be a face to compete against him.....nobody wnats to see Orton/Cena for the 18,976th time...... Miz & Sheamus are over as heels, HHH is on IR and if/when he returns, he's already feuded with Orton before..... That doesn't leave too many people on the Raw Roster that could compete on a level with Orton

[Troelar]

Does this mean that Orton = GM? :P Since there's nothing else for him to do!

He'd have to devolve into a Ultimate Warrior like character with the voices telling him how to run RAW... Naah, maybe just have him feud with Kofi or something 'till Jericho comes back.

[MoFo]

OP is obvious. Havent gave a shit about Orton since Rated RKO, and that was mainly down to Edge being on FIYAH back then.

[Kane Knight]

I hate Cena so much because he's popular and capable.

[Jeritron]

This is a great thread idea, which I happen to agree with 100%

[Supreme Olajuwon]

You shoulda made it.

[Jeritron]

It doesn't matter. As long as it's on record that I think John Cena > Randy Orton, we should be alright

[The Pope]

John Cena's wrestling gear is bland.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

So were Stone Cold and Goldberg's gear.

[MoFo]

John Cena's wrestling gear is bland.



Orton wears trunks and boots like every other wrestler on the planet so whats yr point.

[The Pope]

I don't have a year point, but my point is that others have WRESTLING gear, it doesn't matter if it's bland. Cena wearing shorts is just not good, and it's boring.

[Jeritron]

lol

[Jeritron]

That's everything that's wrong with wrestling fans right there

[DAMN iNATOR]

Due to a site error when I first clicked this thread, I must believe that John Cena < Randy Orton. :shifty:

[Jeritron]

If you're not very interested in exciting main events, and you're dialed into ring attire, entrance themes, tattoos and "the look", then maybe you can make an argument

[The Pope]

If you're not very interested in exciting main events, and you're dialed into ring attire, entrance themes, tattoos and "the look", then maybe you can make an argument

[Aguakate]

I don't have a year point, but my point is that others have WRESTLING gear, it doesn't matter if it's bland. Cena wearing shorts is just not good, and it's boring.

That's what WCW said about Austin, when referring to his black tights and boots. And look where he ended up.

[Majunior]

I blamed Batista for being an awful wrestler.

That's still true.

But yeah, Orton... he has moments where he shines... but in general, he's just kinda "meh."
The best I've seen Randy was his fued with HHH and Steph, punting people in the head, making HHH take a beating to protect his wife, all that stuff. It was like someone wanted to book him like they used to book Austin, but "more cerebral." The thing is, it worked in the moment, but certainly not overall.

[Jeritron]

That's all storylines and booking though. That's not the problem I, or Supreme (if I'm understanding him correctly) have with the guy. That's all in place. It's his ability to put on good matches with capable oponents. It doesn't seem to be there. Especially in main events.

Decent TV match tonight. Good job John!

[VSG]

At Survivor Series, we will find out once and for all that John Cena > Randy Orton.

[crusnik]

my opiniom is that i think orton is not good as a face,not good at all.He seems like he's holding back cause of it.When he was a heel,he was great in my opinion.he punted people in the head,rko'ed the shit out of everyone,had others do his bidding,classic stuff.When he punted jericho,it was like he let loose for a moment(though it was cause of Sheamus)Personally, can't wait for Cena to be done with nexus beat up barrett then go after the GM for giving Barrett that much power over him.(another thought ..... an eighth nexus member as the gm???)

[Supreme Olajuwon]

They're louder for Cena.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't have a year point, but my point is that others have WRESTLING gear, it doesn't matter if it's bland. Cena wearing shorts is just not good, and it's boring.

I agree with this, actually. Cena's no longer a rapper. The guy can put on proper attire and it won't change anything about him other than making him look like an actual wrestler. It's not the biggest thing in the world, but it's just something little I think he could use. That and a new entrance theme.

[Jeritron]

We're talking about quality of matches here, folks. How does this turn into a discussion about who has better undies?

[Mr. Nerfect]

A presentation of a wrestler can help or hurt how they are received.

[Jeritron]

Sure but it has no bearing on the quality of Cena or Orton's main events.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It has a bearing on the quality of Cena and Orton's overall standing with a wrestling fan, though. Just broadening up the discussion a bit.

[St. Jimmy]

I disagree.

[The Naitch]

I don't think Cena would look good in tights. He had a weird walk when he was early John Cena in WWE (2002). It looked like he always had something stuck up his ass. If anything he needs a new theme song

Although CM Puk made a good transition from shorts to tights. So did Triple H (long tights to trunks)

Takes a while to get used to in general, so maybe, it would be the same for Cena

Orton has the look, especially since he's slimmed down a bit with his physique, got tanned, and got more tattoos (at least now it masks those awful tribal designs). But he lacks key catchphrases. If it wasn't for his connections in the business, he'd be your average generic wrestler

He should try to emulate how The Rock was. To me, he has the look of heel Rock in 2003, mixed with some Austin.

[Fox]

Orton is on the right path, but he needs more depth to his character. He can't just be "the viper", the guy who attacks everyone and anyone for no reason, and not have anything else to back that up. Austin was "the rattlesnake", who would Stun anyone anytime anywhere, but he was also the redneck, beer drinking, middle finger flicking, regular working class guy who people could relate to and cheer on. Randy isn't exactly Joe Worker like Steve Austin is; Orton has those GQ good looks and build that make him "above" the normal person. Because of that, he needs more depth to his character; at least a decent freaking catch phrase, if nothing else.

Orton also hasn't been involved in any kind of real, on-going feud in awhile. His matches against Sheamus were overall pretty boring and unexciting; Sheamus was being built as a punk-ass, coward of a champion, and the feud had nothing deeper than "I'm the number one contender and I want your belt." I think that a feud against a great talker and storyteller like CM Punk could really elevate Orton. But it would have to be a planned out, intricate, compelling storyline of some kind. Randy's WWE Title reign seems to be the victim of all the story-writing power going towards Cena/Nexus, with little left over for the Viper.

[DLVH84]

That's what WCW said about Austin, when referring to his black tights and boots. And look where he ended up.

WCW said the same thing to Undertaker as well.

[Joesgonnakillyou]

I think they're both capable. Cena's entertaining at the moment because he's got a great feud going on with a new face (who also happens to be awesome) and Randy is struggling a little with a lack of a feud, every top face needs a nemesis or two and he doesn't have that. That's my two cents on the booking anyway.

As for the in ring work, It's all about chemistry I suppose. Neither Cena or Orton are awful but put Orton and HHH i snooze, put Cena with HHH and it works. Cena and Sheamus's matches are awful but Orton's match with him at HIAC, in my eyes, was great.

So basically Cena just has more going for him at the moment.

[Kane Knight]

We're talking about quality of matches here, folks. How does this turn into a discussion about who has better undies?

People are looking for nits to pick?

[The Pope]

That's what WCW said about Austin, when referring to his black tights and boots. And look where he ended up.

I Just said bland WRESTLING GEAR is fine, jean shorts are not.

[Kane Knight]

I Just said bland WRESTLING GEAR is fine, jean shorts are not.

Which is an utterly retarded distinction that should be beneath you.