Two Questions

[Emeye]

1.) Was the Montreal Screw Job a work? I always thought it was really a screw job, but I just read on a few sites that it was actually a work, and Bret knew it was going to happen. Don't know if these sites have any credibility, just never heard anything about it not actually being a screw job. If it was a work, and Bret was in on it the whole time, that changes a lot of my opinions about the people involved in the Montreal Screw Job.

2.) What are some REAL shoots that aren't out-of-ring interviews. What shoots were real that occurred in the ring, whether it be on the microphone, the decision of a match, or wrestlers really beating each other up unscripted.

[CSL]

1. No

2. Mass Transit, Perry Saturn/Mike Bell, The Steiners/everybody, Booker T/Rick Martel (not a shoot but the outcome of the match was the opposite of what was supposed to happen), anything Scott Steiner said between 1999 and 2001 etc etc.

[MoFo]

JBL on Blue Meanie at One Night Stand, Goldberg v Regal in WCW and that Mike Levy incident from Ian Rotten's shitty indy fed are ones off the top of me head.

Promos - Jim Cornette on Raw during teh Monday Night Wars.

[RiX1024]

If the Screwjob was all a work then all of us would be marked out.

[itsmeJD]

Shane Douglas tossing the NWA title and declaring ECW Extreme

[Funky Fly]

New Jack/Vic Grimes, too. But then, when is New Jack ever not trying to murder someone? So I guess I'll say New Jack/planet earth

[itsmeJD]

Wasn't there something with Luger and Brody in the 80's? A cage match where Brody shot on Luger who was legit afraid, scaled the cage and left?

[CSL]

Brody stopped selling so Luger shat himself, got himself 'DQ'd' in a cage match and scarpered. It was a rib basically, the boys were winding Luger up about Brody being a psycho and he bought into it.

[itsmeJD]

Yup, that's the story I remember hearing. Thanks.

[screech]

Goldberg v Regal in WCW

:?:

[CSL]

Regal was a bit snug with him, not much of a shoot.

[MoFo]

Jimmy Wang Yang said he had a fight with Evan Karagias during one of their matches on PPV (Yung Dragons v 3 Count), cant remember which PPV it was tho.

[JimmyMess]

Didn't Jerry Sags start walloping Scott Hall in a tag match? I think Hall referred to it as "live rounds"

[Rollermacka]

New Jack/Vic Grimes, too. But then, when is New Jack ever not trying to murder someone? So I guess I'll say New Jack/planet earth

Couldnt you say the same about Hardcore Holly? He beat the crap out of that guy on Tough Enough, René Dupreé and I'm sure there was a couple more

[Sixx]

Couldnt you say the same about Hardcore Holly? He beat the crap out of that guy on Tough Enough, René Dupreé and I'm sure there was a couple more

Well, Hardcore Holly never stabbed anyone with a shiv in the ring.

[JimmyMess]

What about PCO and Nash in Montreal in both 1994 and 2009?

[MoFo]

From the 'Death Of WCW' book -

• Tank Abbott got legitimately po'd at "Big Al" during a match. At the end of their match (which was a leather jacket on a pole match of course), he pulled a knife on him, held it to his throat and told him he could kill him. The cameras cut away while Schiavone tried to explain to fans that Tank Abbott was disrespecting him by trying to shave his beard. Big Al didn't have a beard though.


lol

[Tom Guycott]

Speak of the devil...

I can see how a lot of people think it is an elaborate work. It would be a masterful one, too... and all the evidence is certainly there. They actually aired Bret's reaction, when if some fan jumps legit jumps a guardrail, they pull a cutaway and don't acknowlege what is going on. The "Bret" midget with the "WCW" sticker on his ass. The whole "Bret screwed Bret" mantra. Hell, even the fact that Bret just so happened to be filming a documentary around that time. It all screams "IT'S A WORK!!!"

However, there is one thing that leaves me convinced it was a shoot: the fact that, even to this day, no one will admit it was a work.

Think about that. It's like the dilusional folks who think Tupac is still alive based solely on the fact that he recorded enough unreleased material that "leaked" that, as far as we know, could be about as extensive as Prince's legendary "Vault". What in the history of Tupac would lead you to believe he would stay quiet and out of the public eye this long? Same could be said about this being a work. Someone would eventually not be able to contain such juicy info for soooooo long and would have come clean. And they would have done it years before now.

[CSL]

What about PCO and Nash in Montreal in both 1994 and 2009?

'09 was a work off the back of the aforementioned heat/problems between them in 94/95.

Speak of the devil...

I can see how a lot of people think it is an elaborate work. It would be a masterful one, too... and all the evidence is certainly there. They actually aired Bret's reaction, when if some fan jumps legit jumps a guardrail, they pull a cutaway and don't acknowlege what is going on. The "Bret" midget with the "WCW" sticker on his ass. The whole "Bret screwed Bret" mantra. Hell, even the fact that Bret just so happened to be filming a documentary around that time. It all screams "IT'S A WORK!!!"

However, there is one thing that leaves me convinced it was a shoot: the fact that, even to this day, no one will admit it was a work.

Think about that. It's like the dilusional folks who think Tupac is still alive based solely on the fact that he recorded enough unreleased material that "leaked" that, as far as we know, could be about as extensive as Prince's legendary "Vault". What in the history of Tupac would lead you to believe he would stay quiet and out of the public eye this long? Same could be said about this being a work. Someone would eventually not be able to contain such juicy info for soooooo long and would have come clean. And they would have done it years before now.

They didn't show Bret's reaction, the show went off the air literally 90 seconds or so after the 'decision', the only time you really see Bret is when Shawn is sitting on the apron faking disgust. Then Trips and Brisco if I remember right show up and lead him away. Bret fucked shit up long after the PPV had finished. Everything mentioned about Bret on TV afterwards was just how they decided to portray it. And the Wrestling with Shadows crew were following Bret around for like a year before Montreal. Pretty extraordinary lengths to go to.

[Tom Guycott]

What I meant was, if a *fan* jumped the guardrail for a run-in, and that fan is a Steve Blackman, a Marty Janetty, or a pairing Henning* and Husky Rotunda, that is obviously an angle. They'll show it in replays. The announcers'll go through a "what the hell" speil, and someone like Schivone will repeatedly utter "this is real life, folks", throuroughly insuring this is, indeed, a work.

If a LEGIT fan jumps the guardrail, usually security is on his ass instantly. On the rare occasion he makes the ring, the match trainwrecks. It isn't shown on replays or eventually spun into an angle.

They may not have aired it at the actual PPV, but they did decide to at some point. They turned it into a huge angle that made Vince an on-screen heel, planted the seeds of what would eventually become the hugely lucrative D-X, got Owen started on his "Sole Survivor" route, and made Earl Hebner and shady finishes synonymous. Also, it wouldn't be a huge stretch to, if you got a camera crew following Bret around to have them be there to "document what happened".

Again, not saying it is true or that I believe in it. Just saying how someone could logic that notion.

[Kris P Lettus]

Cactus Jack spitting on the wcw tag title on ecw tv..

[Tom Guycott]

I posted twice in this thread and never answered the question. My bad.

Early in the history of the New Age Outlaws, everything Road Dogg said every night they came in until he got settled into the "Oh, you didn't know?" and the Michael Buffer rip-off segment after they got the straps.

[Savio]

Couldnt you say the same about Hardcore Holly? He beat the crap out of that guy on Tough Enough, René Dupreé and I'm sure there was a couple more
I could have saw that but decided not to go because I was low on WWE at the time.

I heard Andre vs Warrior turned real as well as "Andre vs Guy who loves leg kicks"

[CSL]

Not so much 'real'. Apparently Andre clubbed him in the head a few times until he 'got it'.

[Savio]

Andre The Giant vs Akira Maeda was the other one

[whiteyford]

Speak of the devil...

I can see how a lot of people think it is an elaborate work. It would be a masterful one, too... and all the evidence is certainly there. They actually aired Bret's reaction, when if some fan jumps legit jumps a guardrail, they pull a cutaway and don't acknowlege what is going on. The "Bret" midget with the "WCW" sticker on his ass. The whole "Bret screwed Bret" mantra. Hell, even the fact that Bret just so happened to be filming a documentary around that time. It all screams "IT'S A WORK!!!"

However, there is one thing that leaves me convinced it was a shoot: the fact that, even to this day, no one will admit it was a work.

Think about that. It's like the dilusional folks who think Tupac is still alive based solely on the fact that he recorded enough unreleased material that "leaked" that, as far as we know, could be about as extensive as Prince's legendary "Vault". What in the history of Tupac would lead you to believe he would stay quiet and out of the public eye this long? Same could be said about this being a work. Someone would eventually not be able to contain such juicy info for soooooo long and would have come clean. And they would have done it years before now.

Everyone benefited up until Bret actually went to WCW, but like you say how they could keep that big a secret for as long just doesnt seem possible.

[DLVH84]

What about PCO and Nash in Montreal in both 1994 and 2009?

Actually, it was 1995, not 1994.

[CSL]

Good job you dug this up to correct him there, the forum may have fell apart with incorrect information like that floating around.

[Emperor Smeat]

No on Montreal being a work since had it been one there were too many people involved both in the ring and backstage for it not to have been leaked after all these years.

A lot of stuff that occurred during the time of Russo in WCW were shoots and nobody in the audience or backstage knew if they were real or not due to it occurring too many times in the past. I think Scott Steiner was also supposed to get legitimately beaten up by a big group of wrestlers near the end of WCW since he was threatening and causing problems to everyone, but in the end nobody ever attacked him.

[Rammsteinmad]

Shit didn't realise this was an old thread until CSLs post.