Christian at Night of Champions

[Rock Bottom]

Do you think he'll fill the card with a Sheamus match or something? Or is he going to interfere in the Orton match? Not that it particularly matters, but there isn't much time left to actually "build a feud," I think the best we can hope for is one of these two options. Any ideas on what might happen here?

[DAMN iNATOR]

Have him in some sort of high-profile undercard match early, then later on, pissed that he lost his match and the WHC steel cage match with Orton, he decides to interfere in the Orton/Henry WHC match, nails the Unprettier (fuck WWE, in my mind it will NEVER be the "Killswitch" [:roll:]) on Orton, allowing Henry to pick up the win and his first ever WHC.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

If they're committed to the Super Show idea for the foreseeable future, I would totally love him interfering in Cena's match and nailing him with Impaler (fuck WWE, in my mind it will NEVER be the "Unprettier" [http://tpww.net/forums/images/icons/icon8.gif]) and costing him the match.

We saw how good Orton got after feuding with Punk then Christian, let's see if Cena keeps on improving too.

[Blakeamus]

A Christian v.s. Cena feud that we have been wanting for 6 years?

[mike adamle]

I think he has to do something to allow Orton to keep the title. This is the only feud that really has that Hell In A Cell feud build with Hell In A Cell right around the corner. Punk-HHH have that too I guess now that I think about it, but WWE has been all about 2 or more Hell In A Cell matches on the PPV.

[XL]

I expected Henry to get involved with the Cage match resulting in a non- finish. That would lead to a Fatal Fourway (with Sheamus) at NoC.

No idea what they'll do with him - if anything.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

I can see him costing Orton the title or somehow protecting him because he knows he can beat Orton still and he's going to be the one to take the title off him.

I know it's dragged on, but I honestly can't get enough of Christian/Orton. I wouldn't mind them finishing out the year feuding.

[St. Jimmy]

Christian and Orton need to never wrestle each other again. I don't care if it's the fucking Rumble, I dont want to see them near each other. Sick of their fucking shit.

[St. Jimmy]

Why? Oh. Because they've shown us that Christian can't beat Orton. Not even close, so why would I want to watch the same match where we know Christian can't win? Just like Edge and Cena, no point - you know Cena will win. One sided fued is one sided.

[DAMN iNATOR]

If they're committed to the Super Show idea for the foreseeable future, I would totally love him interfering in Cena's match and nailing him with Impaler (fuck WWE, in my mind it will NEVER be the "Unprettier" [http://tpww.net/forums/images/icons/icon8.gif]) and costing him the match.

We saw how good Orton got after feuding with Punk then Christian, let's see if Cena keeps on improving too.

@ the part in bold: I see what you tried to do there, but you FAILED. The Impaler DDT was the "new" name given to Edge's "Edgecution" finisher. So close, yet so not even close.

[loopydate]

@ the part in bold: I see what you tried to do there, but you FAILED. The Impaler DDT was the "new" name given to Edge's "Edgecution" finisher. So close, yet so not even close.

No, he was right. The Unprettier was originally called the Impaler. He just never hit it, so you almost never heard the name.

[mike adamle]

I think he has to do something to allow Orton to keep the title. This is the only feud that really has that Hell In A Cell feud build with Hell In A Cell right around the corner. Punk-HHH have that too I guess now that I think about it, but WWE has been all about 2 or more Hell In A Cell matches on the PPV.

I agree.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Jesus, this reminds me of the debate when WWF Attitude came out. LET'S REVISIT IT

8 Gangrel V Christian - The Finishing Move Debate!

The debate is pretty much over but I thought it might be worth
keeping this bit in just for old times sake. To cut a long story
short, there is a lot of confusion about the names of both Gangrel
and Christian's finishing moves because there are different versions
of them going around. Here's the situation:

a) WWF Attitude (the game) lists Gangrel's Finisher as the Implant
DDT. Christian's is known as The Impaler. This is WRONG!

b) Various moves lists (although we all know they're wrong because
they were printed BEFORE the game came out) list Gangrel's Finisher
as the Implant DDT and Christian's as the Gothic Face Drop or just
the Gothic Drop.

c) Even though I haven't seen it personally, several people have
told me that they have heard the moves being referred to on Raw Is
War, Sunday Night Heat and other WWF shows. Gangrel's Finisher is
The Impaler and Christian's is the Gothic Drop.

Now, Gangrel's move being called The Impaler makes perfect sense -
after all, he is supposed to be a vampire, right? As for Christian's
move...well, I just don't know. It's all a bit confusing and messy
to be honest.

So there you go - let's open the debate to the masses. If there's
ANYBODY who works inside the WWF reading this and can clear it all
up (even if it IS a bit picky) then please do. Otherwise, I'm just
going to get a load of one-line mails bantering the names back and
forth...argh! Let the debate begin...

• LATEST UPDATE - 2/9/99

No-one has contributed to the debate for a long time now so I guess
it's time to end it. After checking EVERYWHERE (and I mean
EVERYWHERE), it's been concluded thus:

a) Gangrel's Finisher is DEFINATELY called The Impaler.
b) Nobody really cares what Christian's Finisher is called - it just
looks pretty damn mean (but it used to be called the Tomikaze in
ECW).

So there you go. Thank you and goodnight.

• UPDATE - 13/8/99

Gangrel's is called the Implant DDT and Christians is the Gothic
Face Drop (Thanks to Neil Bennet)

"To make this short and sweet, Christian's finisher was called "The
Inverted Piledriver" on an episode of Shotgun Saturday Night, about
a month ago. As to whether this refers to a Gothic Drop, or
whatever, I don't know." (Thanks to Rain Xavier)

• UPDATE - 12/8/99

Someone who used to work on a major Brood website wrote to tell me
that Christian's finisher is called the Gothic Face Plant. However,
he also told me that Gangrel's finisher is called the Levitation DDT
because he floats for a brief second before hitting the move, a bit
like Raven's Evenflow DDT. (Thanks to Element718@aol.com)

According to WWF.COM, Gangrel's finisher is called The Impaler.
Chrsitian's doesn't have a name though. (Thanks to Rory Brown)

Christian's finishing move is actually called the Tomikaze, named by
the originator of the move, Tommy Rogers, while he was in the ECW.
(Thanks to The Cubs Fan)

Christian's finishing move is called The Gothic Drop. (Thanks to
virtually everyone who mailed me this - it's not confirmed though so
there's no point saying this!)

[loopydate]

Well, there you go.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

So even though it was incorrectly labeled, they called the move the Impaler on a WWF game. I win!

Now unlike DAMN iNATOR who tries to be a know-it-all and show people up with useless facts whenever he can even though he's often wrong, I will take the high road and not gloat about the fact that I am much smarter and know way more than he does even though I totally am way smarter and know way more than hes does.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Why? Oh. Because they've shown us that Christian can't beat Orton. Not even close, so why would I want to watch the same match where we know Christian can't win? Just like Edge and Cena, no point - you know Cena will win. One sided fued is one sided.

Because I enjoy the matches so much I couldn't give a damn who wins. It could be a triple threat match with those two and Hornswaggle with him taken out before the match, let Ortom and Christian go for 30 minutes then Hornswaggle comes out right at the end and wins to be the new WHC and I wouldn't even complain until his first promo as champ. Even then I wouldnt complain about the match.

[St. Jimmy]

It's been the SAME FUCKING MATCH every time. How can you enjoy watching the same exact match over and over?

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Maybe it has been and maybe it hasn't been, but I've enjoyed every match and profanities in caps won't change that.

[loopydate]

It's been far from the same match every time, come on.

[St. Jimmy]

It's been far from the same match every time, come on.

Go rewatch them. Every match has the same spots in the same order.

[Joesgonnakillyou]

It's not the same match, but it has the same result and that's why Christian is screwed. he's got no credibility anymore. If they wanted the feud to be good. Christian should have beat Orton vaguely cleanly (Like Punk over Cena) at least once but Christian has basically been brutalised.

Which is why he won't have a match at NOC, and will be lost after that, just like The Miz is on Raw

[captaincharismark]

It's not the same match, but it has the same result and that's why Christian is screwed. he's got no credibility anymore. If they wanted the feud to be good. Christian should have beat Orton vaguely cleanly (Like Punk over Cena) at least once but Christian has basically been brutalised.

Which is why he won't have a match at NOC, and will be lost after that, just like The Miz is on Raw

That pretty much sums up why the fued is stale and sucks. WWE keeps putting over the fact that Christian can't beat Orton in a one on one match(cleanly). In 6 matches, Christian has only beat Orton once, and even that was a DQ victory. Thus making his character weak and looking very inferior to Orton(which from a talent standpoint is laughable). WWE is slowly brainwashing it's fans into believing Christian isn't on Orton's level and will never beat Orton without some screwy ending.

WWE these days seems to depush ppl as faster than they push them. It's retarded to get behind a guy, then decide all of a sudden they don't deserve it. Doesn't exactly help establish new stars or give them any kind of credibility...

[Blakeamus]

That pretty much sums up why the fued is stale and sucks. WWE keeps putting over the fact that Christian can't beat Orton in a one on one match(cleanly). In 6 matches, Christian has only beat Orton once, and even that was a DQ victory. Thus making his character weak and looking very inferior to Orton(which from a talent standpoint is laughable). WWE is slowly brainwashing it's fans into believing Christian isn't on Orton's level and will never beat Orton without some screwy ending.

WWE these days seems to depush ppl as faster than they push them. It's retarded to get behind a guy, then decide all of a sudden they don't deserve it. Doesn't exactly help establish new stars or give them any kind of credibility...

Tommy Dreamer for years couldn't beat Raven...a hot feud that was never stale comes to mind with this similar situation. It's called storytelling. The Orton/Christian matches have been top notched and yes, you will see a usual spot from their previous match, but it's tweaked with a reversal of some kind. But as far as a match between the two...I think the cage match was the ending to their rivalry. Formula people! If it isn't, I see Christian getting a clean victory over Orton eventually.

[Droford]

Christian joins team Conspi-R-Miz

[ThePhantom]

Christian is boring, I don't get what you like about him so much. His finisher is unrealistic and slow, he feeds off the success of Edge, and his mic skills are really lacking.To be honest, I hope his stint in the main event picture on Smackdown is over.

[XL]

You realise we get Mark Henry instead, right?

[Londoner]

That pretty much sums up why the fued is stale and sucks. WWE keeps putting over the fact that Christian can't beat Orton in a one on one match(cleanly). In 6 matches, Christian has only beat Orton once, and even that was a DQ victory. Thus making his character weak and looking very inferior to Orton(which from a talent standpoint is laughable). WWE is slowly brainwashing it's fans into believing Christian isn't on Orton's level and will never beat Orton without some screwy ending.

WWE these days seems to depush ppl as faster than they push them. It's retarded to get behind a guy, then decide all of a sudden they don't deserve it. Doesn't exactly help establish new stars or give them any kind of credibility...

Oh look whose being negative once again. Shocking!:roll: Give it up already.

[Londoner]

You realise we get Mark Henry instead, right?

Mark's been great lately.:cool:

[XL]

I agree that he's been better than he's ever been but I can't buy into it. Probably cos we've seen "Monster" Mark a couple times over the years, eventually we'll get "Happy" Mark again. Which I just find annoying.

Willing to give the match with Orton a chance though.

[MoFo]

lol Christian is using the spear now, wtf, he weighs as much as a Somalian on a diet so I feel sorry for the guys who have to sell it

[Rock Bottom]

Christian could be on his way out the door and doing everything he can to put Orton over even more. Just a thought.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Probably not, but if he is, hope they keep him feuding with Orton until then.

[captaincharismark]

Tommy Dreamer for years couldn't beat Raven...a hot feud that was never stale comes to mind with this similar situation. It's called storytelling. The Orton/Christian matches have been top notched and yes, you will see a usual spot from their previous match, but it's tweaked with a reversal of some kind. But as far as a match between the two...I think the cage match was the ending to their rivalry. Formula people! If it isn't, I see Christian getting a clean victory over Orton eventually.

There's a difference between storytelling and burying a guy. While Dreamer didn't beat Raven for years, Heyman had a vision in mind for the fued. That being the main difference between the compared fueds. WWE clearly has no intention of letting Christian pin Orton cleanly one on one.

I do enjoy their matches, as the wrestling is top notch and it is interesting to see what they add to their matches. I simply think that not allowing Christian to win cleanly at some point ruins the fued longterm. Having the same predictable ending every time also kills any momentum the fued has going for it.

[Rock Bottom]

Think about it from an investment standpoint.

Christian has X amount of years left/drawing power. Randy Orton has Y amount of the same. Y > X

I love Christian to death and I do not enjoy seeing him run into the ground by Orton, especially after a decent push, but there is an argument to be made for having Orton viewed clearly as the victor in the ring. Christian has put a lot of effort into putting Orton over and I feel like people complaining about it to this degree kind of undermines what his objectives were in this feud.

He did a good job. A really, really good job. Yes, it sucks if you're a Christian fan, but at some point, you have to let it go and look at what Christian's been doing. He's doing it for a reason.

[Rock Bottom]

None of the above applies if Rock jobs next 'Mania.

[captaincharismark]

Think about it from an investment standpoint.

Christian has X amount of years left/drawing power. Randy Orton has Y amount of the same. Y > X

I love Christian to death and I do not enjoy seeing him run into the ground by Orton, especially after a decent push, but there is an argument to be made for having Orton viewed clearly as the victor in the ring. Christian has put a lot of effort into putting Orton over and I feel like people complaining about it to this degree kind of undermines what his objectives were in this feud.

He did a good job. A really, really good job. Yes, it sucks if you're a Christian fan, but at some point, you have to let it go and look at what Christian's been doing. He's doing it for a reason.

I can understand the logic and argument you are making, but at this stage in his career, Christian needs the push more than Orton. Orton has several years left(in theory, unless something changes that), while Christian is probably a couple of years away from retiring. Orton being a 9 time champion means he's been established and doesn't require winning every match with Christian in order to be put over.

All I'm saying is so far this fued has been one sided and doesn't seem to be headed in any other direction. It seems to me the whole fued is a way of making Orton look dominant at Christian expense. There's ways of making both wrestlers look great without burying Christian. A fact that is apparent WWE cannot grasp....

[XL]

We keep harping on this.

Pretty simple, in WWE there is a pecking order even in the Main Event scene. Cena/Orton will be held in higher esteem than other guYs for the foreseeable future. They are young, talented and over. Hell, we know that WWE is building the entire SmackDown show around Orton. These two will go over in 95% of the fueds they have. Can't we just accept this as fact and be grateful for what the other guys get (2 WHC runs in Christian's case) and what we get out of it (great matches)?

[Blakeamus]

There's a difference between storytelling and burying a guy. While Dreamer didn't beat Raven for years, Heyman had a vision in mind for the fued. That being the main difference between the compared fueds. WWE clearly has no intention of letting Christian pin Orton cleanly one on one.

I do enjoy their matches, as the wrestling is top notch and it is interesting to see what they add to their matches. I simply think that not allowing Christian to win cleanly at some point ruins the fued longterm. Having the same predictable ending every time also kills any momentum the fued has going for it.

I don't see how you think it's consider "burying" all because he NEVER pinned Orton. He was obsessed of proving that he can defeat Orton, thats the way the direction of Christian's character is going. It's not like he was squashed in the series of matches. Now that would be burying. It didn't ruin Christian...it elevated him in the main event picture as one of the top guys in Smackdown for the WHC picture. Win or Lose, WWE made Christian marketable.

[Juan]

If you honestly believe Christian is being buried, then you probably should just stop watching wrestling all together.

[captaincharismark]

I don't see how you think it's consider "burying" all because he NEVER pinned Orton. He was obsessed of proving that he can defeat Orton, thats the way the direction of Christian's character is going. It's not like he was squashed in the series of matches. Now that would be burying. It didn't ruin Christian...it elevated him in the main event picture as one of the top guys in Smackdown for the WHC picture. Win or Lose, WWE made Christian marketable.

I consider him "buried" b/c he's only won one of the six matches they've wrestled, and he won by DQ. I'd consider that squashed when you add in the fact that both his title reigns combined were like two weeks. Not to mention on a weekly basis he's billed as the guy who can't pin Orton. I understand him using underhanded tatics to win, but in this case he's not even doing that. And the fued has kept him in the main events, albeit as a fluke competitor.

Again, I ask what you definition of burying a character is. The way the announcers were putting over the cage match, it's the last match the two will have for the forseeable future. Thus meaning his 1/6 win will be the only win he got in the fued by DQ. Which to me cheapens the heel turn and makes him look incredibly inferior to Orton. Not saying he has to win cleanly in a straight up match, but a clean win by heel tatics would've been a refreshing ending to me.

[captaincharismark]

If you honestly believe Christian is being buried, then you probably should just stop watching wrestling all together.

Or it means I'm not a blind WWE mark like most here....

[Juan]

Yeah, that MUST be it.

"If you don't agree with me, you're a blind WWE mark"

Brilliant

[captaincharismark]

I say that b/c most here call me a mark for Christian b/c I don't agree that he's looked good in this fued. I think if you buy Christian as a credible main eventer now you are a WWE mark. His character has been booked terribly, and he's being used as a way of establishing Orton's dominance on SD. To not acknowledge the obvious would be my definition of a blind mark. And in this instance that seems to be the case. Just calling it like I see it, and don't care who disagrees.

[Juan]

Good luck with that

[Aguakate]

I say that b/c most here call me a mark for Christian b/c I don't agree that he's looked good in this fued. I think if you buy Christian as a credible main eventer now you are a WWE mark. His character has been booked terribly, and he's being used as a way of establishing Orton's dominance on SD. To not acknowledge the obvious would be my definition of a blind mark. And in this instance that seems to be the case. Just calling it like I see it, and don't care who disagrees.

...LOL Dude, LOOK AT YOU NAME.

"Captain Charismark"

You yourself accept you're a mark for Christian...are you kidding me?

[captaincharismark]

...LOL Dude, LOOK AT YOU NAME.

"Captain Charismark"

You yourself accept you're a mark for Christian...are you kidding me?

I always think it's ironic most consider me a mark, when everyone here is a mark to some degree. The main difference is I don't lie and say I'm not a mark. At least I do try to objectively view topics and discuss them, where most fans here are too narrow minded and intolerant of any views but their own. Way to uphold the streotype wrestling fans have of being dumb rednecks. Not like that's gonna change anyone mind....

[Blakeamus]

Agree to disagree

[Blakeamus]

I'm a mark to some degree but you don't have any logical sense when it comes to Christian being "buried".

[XL]

I was a captaincharismark mark. Then I got better.

[Juan]

I wonder if Christian thinks he's being buried right now.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, being consistently involved in the World Heavyweight Title picture must really suck.

I'm not sure what happened on SmackDown! this week, but I'm assuming Orton won. I'd have Christian chuck a bit of a spazz attack and cost Orton the World Title to Mark Henry at Night of Champions. Christian vs. Orton at Hell in a Cell inside the structure, and Henry vs. the returning Kane for the World Heavyweight Title elsewhere on the card.

[XL]

I wonder if Christian thinks he's being buried right now.
The guy is a WWE mark who can't see things objectively, so...

[Juan]

I wonder if Ted DiBiase and Curt Hennig fans were this up in arms 20 years ago when they consistently put on great matches with the top guys but never won the World Title.

[Juan]

Watching SD right now and Michael Cole pretty much nailed it...

Booker: Christian actually thinks he can beat Randy Orton in a fair fight.
Cole: He can. He's done it. He's pinned Randy Orton on a number of occasions. Plus, he's a two-time World Champ. You can't tale that away from the man.
Booker. The only thing people are gonna remember about Christian is that disqualification. That's the only thing they're gonna remember.
Cole: Well, maybe that's all YOU'RE gonna remember about him, because you have selective memory. I'm gonna remember him as one of the greats of all time. The guy's been around for 17 years!

[Juan]

i know Cole is supposed to be the heel announcer, but it doesn't make it any less true

[Rock Bottom]

Pretty much agree with you. It might not be fun for everyone who wants Christian to win, but come on. Look at how hard he's been working with Orton on this feud and respect the work.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Poor Christian, being put in a main event feud for months on end, consistently putting on arguably the best match at PPV's and winning the world title twice in that time. The guy just can't catch a break.

[Rock Bottom]

Really doubt Christian's going to be around much longer. If that's the case, you're going to see a lot of the same, him busting his ass to put a couple guys over.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Christian seems to have a lot of gas in the tank. I think he could go for a few years, providing no freak injuries. If I were booking, I'd have him, Mark Henry and Sheamus challenging Orton in a Fatal 4-Way at Night of Champions, where Christian wins after he nails Orton with the World Heavyweight Title belt (which is also how Christian first turned heel). Orton wants his rematch, and he gets it in Hell in a Cell -- where the logical booking is to put Orton over, since he's the babyface.

[Rock Bottom]

Looks like Sheamus after that slap thing. Why not?

[St. Jimmy]

Maybe he'll get kicked in the balls and win the IC Belt.

[St. Jimmy]

i know Cole is supposed to be the heel announcer, but it doesn't make it true