Zack Ryder: Next Big Thing or Flash in the Pan?

[Anybody Thrilla]

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/20100000/Snooki-and-Zack-Ryder-jersey-shore-20122320-500-375.jpg

The story of Zack Ryder has definitely been an inspirational one. He essentially opened a social media parachute to save himself from a seemingly inevitable plummet into the volcano of future endeavors and has somehow become a main feature on Raw. Good for him. Now, one has to wonder...does Zack Ryder have what it takes to become an actual STAR in the professional wrestling world? Are people too caught up in his story to actually evaluate the talent that we're dealing with here?

From a personal standpoint, I think Ryder is pretty decent in the ring. However, I've yet to hear a captivating promo from him, and he often comes off as quite corny on screen. It was never more prevalent for me than this most recent Raw in both his promos with Cena/Laurinitis and his reaction after he lost to Cena. Hell, even his victory celebration after the Henry win felt corny and contrived.

Before I start rambling too much more, I guess I'm just trying to say that Zack Ryder is a feel-good story, and I wish the dude nothing but success for sticking his neck on the line and just "going for it"...but I really don't think he's the STAR that some other people may think he is.

Your thoughts, please.

[SammyG]

He's what is hot right now, the Internet show got him way over, fans love him. I don't think he's a STAR either.

[Lock Jaw]

Totally just a flash in the pan, no doubt about it. I think he has bought for himself at least a consistent mid-card spot though. Which isn't bad at all considering where he was before.

[Kapoutman]

I think that as he is right now, Zack Ryder is decent in the ring, but I have yet to see him wrestle more than 5 minutes. So for all I know, he only has three moves. His promos are OK, but far from the best. Maybe he needs a bit more practice? He hasn't been relevant for that long, so it's kind of hard to see if he can improve his skills. Ziggler used to be pretty average in terms of promos, then all of a sudden he just got it.

So right now, Ryder is too goofy to be taken seriously, but I want to give him a chance to improve, If he takes it up a notch both promo and wrestling-wise, he'll do just fine. I don't see him main-eventing though.

[Ruien]

He is kind of in the middle. After about half of a year I see him being a mid to lower-carder for the rest of his life. Would compare what his status will be like after this flash is done to Kofi Kingston.

[Rammsteinmad]

My biggest concern for Ryder, is that the whole internet show and the 'underdog who can't get a push' thing won't work forever. Eventually if he really wants to step up, he'll have to get a bit more serious, and since Long Island Iced Z and basically Ryder's 'loser' persona is what got him over in the first place, it really comes down to if the fans will buy him as a legit contender when he starts to evolve.

[Next Big Thing]

I'm not sure his current "gimmick" is going to give him too much longevity in the long run. He should do well for himself in the mid-card over the next couple of years though.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I almost feel bad making this thread, because I was a huge Ryder mark in ECW. I remember going to an ECW taping a couple years ago and I started yelling "WOO WOO WOO!" when he entered. Everybody around me was looking at me like I was retarded.

Something about his reaction to his lost to Cena just really irked me, though.

"THAT WAS MY LAST SHOT, BRO! WHAT AM I GONNA DO NOW, BRO?"

Yuck.

This gimmick has a pretty finite shelf life, and I think I may be getting tired of it already.

[starfox8500]

I would say to just give him time. His in-ring work isn't too shabby, and he clearly has the charisma it takes to make it. I would say he just needs to work on his mic skills.

Overall I find him pretty entertaining, and if they handle the US Title chase (run?) correctly, I would hope to see him for quite awhile.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I think that as he is right now, Zack Ryder is decent in the ring, but I have yet to see him wrestle more than 5 minutes. So for all I know, he only has three moves. His promos are OK, but far from the best. Maybe he needs a bit more practice? He hasn't been relevant for that long, so it's kind of hard to see if he can improve his skills. Ziggler used to be pretty average in terms of promos, then all of a sudden he just got it.

So right now, Ryder is too goofy to be taken seriously, but I want to give him a chance to improve, If he takes it up a notch both promo and wrestling-wise, he'll do just fine. I don't see him main-eventing though.

He had some long matches in ECW, and they were generally pretty good. As far as promos:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Vi8mIK-ehZc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

...they could definitely use some work.

[Gertner]

He's just a solid mid card-upper mid card guy. Nothing wrong with that.

[Anybody Thrilla]

My biggest concern for Ryder, is that the whole internet show and the 'underdog who can't get a push' thing won't work forever. Eventually if he really wants to step up, he'll have to get a bit more serious, and since Long Island Iced Z and basically Ryder's 'loser' persona is what got him over in the first place, it really comes down to if the fans will buy him as a legit contender when he starts to evolve.

I agree with this. I think they pushed him too hard, too fast. They could have run with the underdog thing for a while and just had him be considered more of a joke by his peers, even though he somehow won 'fluke' matches. There was no reason to have him pin Ziggler like nineteen times, though.

My idea would have been to keep the Ryder usage to a MINIMUM until the fans were basically salivating and DEMANDING to see Ryder. It's too early to have him featured in four segments (including two matches) on Raw.

[MoFo]

Flash, but hes paved the way for a lot of other guys in his position to get over even when they arent on TV.

Look at how many other guys have Youtube shows and Twitter accounts now after his success.

Matt Hardy might have been the first to do it, but Ryder has 'revolutionised' it.

[Anybody Thrilla]

And Ted DiBiase has set it back.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Also, I'd almost say that Miz and Morrison used an internet show to their advantage just as well as Ryder did. It was also a better show.

[Gertner]

And Ted DiBiase has set it back.

ARE YOU TALKING SMACK ABOUT THE DIBIASE POSSE!!!!!

[Anybody Thrilla]

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvaqn9mbod1r5ubj1o1_500.jpg

Trying much too hard to capitalize on popular trends. That sort of relates to this thread, but I think we can save this discussion for another time.

[Gertner]

The Posse is so terrible that I love it.

[St. Jimmy]

14.59 of his 15 minutes.

[Emperor Smeat]

Maybe not top star status or future top star status but he's managed to at least position himself to be a high mid-card wrestler for the next couple of years.

Compared to where he was almost a year ago, he's improved by a lot with more tv time and built up his fanbase with the lack of the WWE's help until recently.

His best long term plans would be a slow build up into a potential main event status similar to the Miz and Ziggler but this time as a face wrestler. The Miz and Ziggler benefited a lot from the slow build and used that time to improve a lot in both character and overall skills.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I don't think his build has been very slow. He basically went from 'jobber' to 'threat' in a matter of weeks.

[Next Big Thing]

I agree with this. I think they pushed him too hard, too fast. They could have run with the underdog thing for a while and just had him be considered more of a joke by his peers, even though he somehow won 'fluke' matches. There was no reason to have him pin Ziggler like nineteen times, though.

My idea would have been to keep the Ryder usage to a MINIMUM until the fans were basically salivating and DEMANDING to see Ryder. It's too early to have him featured in four segments (including two matches) on Raw.

My memory is kind of hazy, but didn't Punk and Cena start mentioning him getting more Raw time in their promos/Tweets/Etc back around June or July when everyone started "keeping it real" and dropping pipe bombs in their segments? That was probably the gift and curse for him because those guys gave him even more notoriety to the point where it would be hard for Ziggler and other midcard heels to characterize him as a joke when the two biggest stars in the company openly support him and the fans are chanting his name.

[Anybody Thrilla]

They could have characterized him as a joke based on his previous track record. They started giving him wins right after all that.

[DaveBrawl]

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvaqn9mbod1r5ubj1o1_500.jpg

Trying much too hard to capitalize on popular trends. That sort of relates to this thread, but I think we can save this discussion for another time.

I am now a Ted Dibiase fan.

[Lock Jaw]

Ted "The Masterpiece" DiBiase?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Ted "The Tebow" DiBiase

[Tazz Dan]

Like I said in another thread, I think the guy can evolve from here. He needs to tweak his character slightly, and change his promo style a bit, but given some time I can't see why he couldn't stay relevant. I remember it was only a couple of years ago everybody was against CAWdy Rhodes.....

[DaveBrawl]

Ted "The Tebow" DiBiase

That could be a great gimmick actually. Have him break out an old school 50s-60s style offense against his foes as everyone bashes him saying it will never work, but he somehow wins match after match and endears himself to everyone in the process.

[Lock Jaw]

Yeah, if he evolves his character (by which I mean almost completely dropping it, like Cena did the rapper), then all of this goes out the window and he will have to be evaluated again.

He isn't in a position like Santino Marella where he is almost stuck in that one gimmick. Still has the potential for change.

[Nicky Fives]

ARE YOU STUCK IN THE MID-CARD, BRO?

[TazFTW86]

I think that as he is right now, Zack Ryder is decent in the ring, but I have yet to see him wrestle more than 5 minutes. So for all I know, he only has three moves. His promos are OK, but far from the best. Maybe he needs a bit more practice? He hasn't been relevant for that long, so it's kind of hard to see if he can improve his skills. Ziggler used to be pretty average in terms of promos, then all of a sudden he just got it.

So right now, Ryder is too goofy to be taken seriously, but I want to give him a chance to improve, If he takes it up a notch both promo and wrestling-wise, he'll do just fine. I don't see him main-eventing though.

He had better matches on ECW then anything thats on now...most were longer then 5 mins

[Snowden]

His series of matches with Christian on ECW were pretty damn good, and as his internet show has exhibited, he's got more than a little charisma. Remember, he's only what, 25 or so? Given that he's got plenty of time to develop and that he's already garnered a fanbase (which will stop him from getting prematurely fired), I think he's got some real potential.

Will he main event Wrestlemania? Probably not. But if he continues on an upward trend, I can see him grabbing a world title shot here or there, maybe even a run with the strap.

[Xero]

This echos others in the thread, but he is definitely a flash in the pan. He got over on his own, which is great, but it also means that WWE is automatically going to take a dislike towards him because no matter how much they publicly state it's up to the guys to get noticed, they don't want that. He was honestly really lucky to get the push he has because he has guys like Punk and Cena behind him. Without Cena especially, I don't think he would have gone anywhere in WWE and the YouTube series would have been his demise.

I don't think WWE sees him as anything more than something they can milk for merch. As much as people want to say he's over like rover, it's really only with a portion of the fans. The portion that Vince McMahon and the suits detest. Which is another knock against him. To be fair, he is slowly gaining more of a mainstream fanbase, but I think it will fizzle out long before WWE really takes notice of his real worth.

I do think he's solid and there's room for him to grow out of this gimmick and become, at the very least, a solid midcard mainstay. However, as I've said before, I believe that WWE will leave him too long in this gimmick and he'll forever be seen as a Eugene or Santino. Stuck in a terrible side-show gimmick that happens to get over. And there's nothing wrong with that on the surface unless he plans to stay in the business as a top star, because, as said, there's only a finite amount of steam he has for this gimmick before it becomes really old hat and destroys any chance of evolution from the character.

[Kane Knight]

I almost feel bad making this thread, because I was a huge Ryder mark in ECW. I remember going to an ECW taping a couple years ago and I started yelling "WOO WOO WOO!" when he entered. Everybody around me was looking at me like I was retarded.

Something about his reaction to his lost to Cena just really irked me, though.

"THAT WAS MY LAST SHOT, BRO! WHAT AM I GONNA DO NOW, BRO?"

Yuck.

This gimmick has a pretty finite shelf life, and I think I may be getting tired of it already.:rofl:

[Lock Jaw]

Zack Ryder's in-character promo response to this thread: ARE YOU SERIOUS BRO?! [/End Promo]

[Xero]

Another problem with the gimmick is that on his show, he has complete control. I've not seen it, but I'm willing to bet that it's 100 times better than anything WWE has written for him. And that's a huge problem for getting the character itself over to the masses.

Or I could be wrong and it's already wearing thin on the YT show. Again, I've never seen it.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I would bet that he's never going to rise above the midcard, but I was also pretty sure The Miz and Cody Rhodes would do the same thing, and those two have never had a crowd reaction like Ryder gets.

So who knows

[Mooияakeя™]

<object width="420" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/l3dJpZfnpG0?version=3&amp;hl=en_GB&amp;rel=0&start=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/l3dJpZfnpG0?version=3&amp;hl=en_GB&amp;rel=0&start=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

[RiX1024]

Flash in the Pan, his character is well over but not main event material IMO. stick to being a mid-carder.

[Kane Knight]

I want to see him and his bro Cena form 2 Doosh.

[wwe2222]

He is neither one, he is somewhere in the middle. Is he ever going to be as big as a John Cena? Very doubtful. He will be a solid upper mid carder, a legit threat to the US or IC title belts and will occassionally pal around with the main eventers. Nothing wrong with that.

His gimmick can easily be turned into a solid heel too. I like that he has a character and is a little over the stop with his shtick. Wrestling is missing some of that these days.

I suppose it all depends on your definition of what a flash in the pan is.

[#1-norm-fan]

He'll be teased as a main eventer a bit before settling in as a career upper-mid carder.

I'd love to see him end up being the runner up in the Rumble. Give him that "Holy shit, he might do it!" moment like Santino got last year but more meaningful in the long run.

[Indifferent Clox]

I see him being a midcarder for a bit longer under the current charecter and then going heel on the fans thatbbrought him. But I feel he will change up his charecter at that point to be more serious and tbh probably more bland.

[Lock Jaw]

Another problem with the gimmick is that on his show, he has complete control. I've not seen it, but I'm willing to bet that it's 100 times better than anything WWE has written for him. And that's a huge problem for getting the character itself over to the masses.

Or I could be wrong and it's already wearing thin on the YT show. Again, I've never seen it.

Show started off with him as more of an "underdog", "I'm not booked" type of character. Nowadays it is more of a recap of what he did on TV that week, along with a Dolph Ziggler segment in which they feud.

[jskinnyg]

Solid Mid-Carder that has got a future... The flash in the pan is his gimmick... After this flash, a nice heel turn would solidify him a good spot... He's pretty good in the ring...

[XCaliber]

Don't think he's either he's a good wrestler but what could end up hindering Ryder's carreer is the very gimmick that got him this far. His character would have to eventually grow into a more serious or intense role much like he was back when he was an Edgehead with Hawkins. So I'd say he's bound to end up being an upper midcarder but could potentially go to the main event level if both parties can figure out how to make him less of a goofball.

[Mr. Nerfect]

While I believe that the character is a flash in the pan, I think the performer behind Zack Ryder has got a lot of potential, room to grow and a lot to offer the WWE. Ryder is only approaching his 27th birthday. He's been in the business since about 2004, and has had a five or six year relationship with the WWE. He seems well-liked backstage, and has the attitude to go out there and always do what he needs to do to get noticed and move his merchandise -- which is ultimately good for the WWE.

I've got a feeling that Ryder will be the US Champion soon, and that can test the waters to see how well he does as a singles champion in the WWE, and whether his fanbase will stick with him through success, and aren't just cheering an underdog. Ryder's loveable loser shtick might eventually get old, but if the Ryder character constantly challenges itself, and manages to fight some pretty big battles (I like the idea of him doing quite well in the Royal Rumble), then he might earn some fans who see past the shtick and will stick with Ryder the performer over the years.

Ryder needing to prove himself as US Champion has the potential to be a pretty good and compelling storyline that could really help build Ryder's credibility (which is what a US Title run is meant to do). Then we can start talking about whether Ryder has the tools to one day be a main eventer. I personally think he has the right attitude and the ring skills, and he seems to be on the right path.

The child-like naivety of Ryder could be modified into desperate heel champion paranoia down the crack. Also, his character would need very few tweaks to go from "charming" to "annoying." Let Ryder unite the lower card of the WWE to keep him as United States Champion when his merchandise sales die down, and I think you might have a winning heel gimmick. Have Curt Hawkins, Tyler Reks and maybe Michael McGillicutty or someone form a "Zack Pack" designed to keep him champion, and Ryder continues to act like the lovable underdog long past people have cared. Sort of like a child star turned attention addict gimmick, I guess.

Ryder is not going to run out of things to do and has plenty of skills to offer the WWE, I think. He'll also do his best to make sure he is as over and as credible as he can be in any situation. I think the dude is long-term. That's not to say he'll always be a top merchandise mover for the WWE, though, and I do think he'll need to either evolve his character or rotate the light in which it is portrayed, eventually. I honestly do believe that a Ryder WWE Title win could be compared to Mick Foley's initial win, though. That feel-good moment that doesn't aim to be revolutionary, but finds a charm in how modest it is.

[Dirk Ziggler]

He's cool now, but it's a gimmick that will run stale within the next year.

[XL]

Part of me thinks that it's a case of us being "on the bandwagon" early on. A lot of us have been watching Z! True Long Island Story since February, 10-11 months later maybe we're not as enamoured as we were then? Meanwhile, a lot of the "target audience" have only recently caught on. To them he is fresh, to us maybe he's starting to go a little "stale". That's just a thought.

Also, we as a group have a tendency to second guess everything. Guys with no exposure suddenly have "too much", Rock's return is great...until people get bored of the "phoned in promos", Punk's "pipe bombs" are glorious until 3 weeks later when they are "tired and desperate", etc, etc. Maybe this is one of those things.

To me, the fact that Ryder was all over Raw (and also had a match on SmackDown this week) is indicative of a change in approach from WWE. Ryder, Ziggler, Rhodes, Barrett are all getting a ton of exposure at the minute and are getting the job done. I hope that WWE can capitalize on the progress they have made with these guys but to do so they need to realize that there is a thin line between exposure and over exposure.

As for Ryder himself, I feel some of the criticism levelled at him is unfair. The character is corny and over-the-top, it only makes sense that his promos/reactions are in line with that. He's a decent in-ring talent that has a great handle on his character and is moving merch (even if some of it is absolute tat).

He can be a useful upper-midcard guy for years to come if WWE handle him correctly. If anything it's up to them to make sure he isn't a "flash in the pan". That said, by no means do I think he is the "Next Big Thing" on the level of a Cena, Orton or Punk.

[Kane Knight]

Rock's return is great...until people get bored of the "phoned in promos"

I'm not sure that was second guessing. People were complaining about this two seconds after he opened his mouth.