It's Vader Time!

[Zeeboe]

Vader was a pretty interesting character. I've heard all kinds of stories about him over the years, and many of these stories are documented, so I feel he deserves his own thread.

The first story I'd like to share involves a match Vader had with Ken Shamrock back in 1997. This was a very stiff match. It was also Ken Shamrock's first match, and because he was so green, the story is that Vince McMahon chose Vader to wrestle Ken Shamrock to punish him for being stiff against (almost) the entire locker room and he knew because Shamrock was use to competing in the UFC, and doing things the UFC way, and was a rookie in WWE, he'd most likely inadvertently hurt Vader.

I also read that Shamrock knew Vader was a legit tough guy, and supposedly some of the boys warned Shamrock that Vader may be rough with him in the ring to "initiate" him into the WWE, so Shamrock decided to take quick action against him and let Vader know he was no push-over.

Not knowing how to work a match properly, and between possibly the fact that Shamrock was trying to prove to Vader that he wasn't going to just let Vader beat on him for real, Ken was as stiff as hell with Vader. If you watch the match closely, you can see Vader telling Shamrock "to ease up, ease up." Shamrock ended up breaking Vader's nose in four places and Vader couldn't walk for several days after the match since Shamrock gave him several stiff kicks to his legs which you can see in the match. I think this is one of these types of matches that some people will say "Yeah, all those other matches are fake, but this one was real."

A few seconds before the end, Vader was finally fed-up with Shamrock and hit him with a hard clothesline, almost knocking him out. After that point, Shamrock finally eased up and the match finished smoothly. At the end of the match, the viewer can see, Vader was clearly angry and in pain, and Shamrock also looked like he was about collapse.

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[Hanso Amore]

Never really saw this or read about it. Nice find.

Surprised this is coming from you.

[Hanso Amore]

I just read about SHamrock on Wikipedia. I dont remember his run being as long as it was.

I felt like his run was only like a year or so long. I remember his title shot against HBK in December 1997 as when Owen returned. Then through 1998 and all of 1999 he was around, didnt seem like it.

[Iop]

Thats weird, wasnt Vader like the toughest guy in WWE history who would beat the crap out of anyone, just for fun? How did he get beat up by Shamrock?

[Gonzo]

Wow. Shamrock was throwing some real stiff shots in there. Especially in that exchange at the end when he throws a knee to Vader's head. Vader damn near took his head off with the retaliatory right.

[Hanso Amore]

Thats weird, wasnt Vader like the toughest guy in WWE history who would beat the crap out of anyone, just for fun? How did he get beat up by Shamrock?

Vader was far from the toughest ever. He was just a big dude that was stiff as hell. He wasnt even doing it for a reason, like revenge or to be a dick, but Vader was just Japanese style stiff as fuck.

Not surprised Shamrock tried to "defend himself" but that is still pretty shit. He was getting way too aggressive.

[Zeeboe]

What's also interesting about Vader is as tough as he was, and as mean as he could be, he was very sensitive and his feelings could be hurt very easily. I heard this clip last year which confirmed this myth.

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Here's the Summerslam match Jim Cornette was talking about.

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At 19:26, you can see the part where HBK kicks Vader in the head and screams "MOVE!" twice at him. (And an "lol" at McMahon for trying to explain Shawn's actions to the audience.)


Even though I'm hardly a fan of the 1990's HBK, apart of me can understand Shawn's point of view. Most likely, Shawn heard of Vader's rep, and that rep being that Vader was a bully and that he'd kick your ass for real in the ring, so I can understand Shawn not having a desire to work with Vader, and then when Vader was working real rough with Shawn at that house show Cornette was talking about, and since Vader could kill HBK in a legit match, Shawn's only defense was to threaten Vader with Vince, which clearly worked.

It surprised me that HBK got away with treating a bad-ass like Vader the way he did since Shawn's hardly a legit tough guy. But Shawn is a backstage tough guy, especially then. Vader must have really needed the job, and he didn't have the same pull that Bret Hart had with Vince, so Vader had no choice but to suck it up and take it.

[Testicle]

Vader is def. top 5 favorite for me.

The guy is one of the most complex wrestlers in and out of the ring. I would recommend any of his shoot videos. As far as the HBK vs. Vader match goes....

1. It was a great match. Even with the botch by Vader. Vader was a legit 375 lbs and kept up with Shawn for 30 minutes. This is nothing short of a miracle. In the E, which Shawn was accustomed, there is usually strict spot planning. In Japan, which Vader was accustomed, the match is more fluid. Vader thought that there was nothing wrong with taking the elbow, the fans don't know if he is supposed to move or not, so just fucking do the elbow.

2. What really fucked Vader (besides Shawn threatening to get Vader fired after the match, which once again was a great match) was that the PPV did not have a ton of buys. This is for a number of reasons including that Vader and Shawn wrestled each other for 2 months straight on house shows all around the country before SS. Each match ended the same, SCM and Michaels gets the pin. Why is this a problem? Back in '96 the E was famous for drawing at house shows. Doing 4 shows a week at 10,000+ paid. I.E. For 2 months or 8 weeks x 4 shows x 10,000 fans = 320,000 people saw Shawn pin the monster heel Vader clean just before the PPV. 320,000 represents over half of a usual SS buy. No wonder the PPV did bad numbers.

[Fignuts]

After seeing Vaders retaliation, I feel like this was more of a rib on shamrock, than on Vader.

"Yeah, go ahead. Go out there and stiff Vader. He won't do anything. *snicker*"

[blake639raw]

I forgot where, but I read an interview recently with Vader where he mentioned that the WWF wanted to repackage him as "Mastadon", similar to what they did with Cactus Jack. Who knows, if he agreed, things might have ended up differently for Vader.

[Hanso Amore]

I forgot where, but I read an interview recently with Vader where he mentioned that the WWF wanted to repackage him as "Mastadon", similar to what they did with Cactus Jack. Who knows, if he agreed, things might have ended up differently for Vader.

It would have ended worse. Watch the Cornette shoot. He talks on it. Why would you rename the WCW champ. They wanted to trademark the Mastadon and basically just rename Vader. Same everything else.

[Hanso Amore]

Cornyette does a killer Vince impression BTW

[Crimson]

haha Cornette's awesome

[Fignuts]

HE'S FUCKIN' VADER!

[Kris P Lettus]

Vader was the best back in the day..

[Tom Guycott]

I forgot where, but I read an interview recently with Vader where he mentioned that the WWF wanted to repackage him as "Mastadon", similar to what they did with Cactus Jack. Who knows, if he agreed, things might have ended up differently for Vader.

It would have ended worse. Watch the Cornette shoot. He talks on it. Why would you rename the WCW champ. They wanted to trademark the Mastadon and basically just rename Vader. Same everything else.

To further support Hanso's point, also see: Ron Simmons
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/191/935/faarooq_27996_display_image.jpg?1270616535
Do you do this to a former world champion and expect him to get over and sell merch?

HE'S FUCKIN' VADER!

Was waiting for someone to quote that in this thread.

[Zeeboe]

I remember the days when you did not dare ask a wrestler if wrestling was fake because if you did, that's just asking for a fight. And you sure as hell do not ask Vader of all wrestlers if wrestling is fake.

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Vader was arrested, and convicted of assault, and detained in Kuwait. He was finally released and ordered to pay $166 in costs after the incident. There was also rumors The Rock, who was the Intercontinental champion at that time, was suppose to drop the title to Vader at one point that summer, but because Vader attacked the host, he was punished by not getting an I.C. title run.

[MoFo]

Was Shamrock the ref for Bret/Austin @ Mania or am I fucking imagining things again?

[whiteyford]

He was

[Gonzo]

lol @ the last vid Zeeboe posted. "vicious assault"

Jesus christ he grabbed the guy's tie.

[Gertner]

To further support Hanso's point, also see: Ron Simmons
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/191/935/faarooq_27996_display_image.jpg?1270616535
Do you do this to a former world champion and expect him to get over and sell merch?



Was waiting for someone to quote that in this thread.

In all honesty, Simmons was about as over here as he was during his World Title run.

[Tom Guycott]

Just sayin'...

That was likely what was in store for Vader. In fact, the helmet was likely modified and repurposed for Farooq. It prob'ly had elephant ears and a big foam trunk for Vader.

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/4/46/Maxrebo.jpg
"Oh, it's time! It's TIME, it's VADER TIME time time..."

[DAMN iNATOR]

Hmmm...this thread seems to be missing something...ah, yes...
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Much better. ;):y:

[Zeeboe]

Vader bloopers -

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[Zeeboe]

Bump. Given all the Vader hype, I think it's time to bring this one back for a bit.