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View Full Version : How do you solve this "Roster Depth" problem?


XL
06-10-2012, 06:51 PM
Reports say that WWE are concerned (or at least should be) with the lack of roster depth. With Orton, Mysterio and Jericho suspended, Del Rio, Henry and Barrett on the injured list, HHH, Taker, Rock and Brock nowhere to be seen, WWE are severly lacking stars at the top of the card.

With that in mind, Vince comes to YOU for the solution.

What do you do?

Shisen Kopf
06-10-2012, 06:52 PM
Make Ryback the champ

Fignuts
06-10-2012, 06:58 PM
Clone Ryback.

Triple Naitch
06-10-2012, 06:58 PM
Just gotta throw shit against the wall and see what sticks. Give Dolph, Ryback, Cody, Kofi, and Sin Cara a chance. See what works. Sometimes you get CM Punk, sometimes you get Billy Gunn. Then move in hard working lower card guys to replace their current spot (Hawkins, Kidd, Sandow, Cesaro, McIntyre).

BizarroKing
06-10-2012, 06:59 PM
Push Ryder to the moon.

/thread.

Ruien
06-10-2012, 07:14 PM
Buy TNA.

#1-norm-fan
06-10-2012, 07:14 PM
I take some guys who are up there near main event level that I trust and am a big fan of and make them look like they're on par with Cena, Punk, Sheamus, etc. And while doing that, I stop having the guys like Punk that I've already got at that level lose on TV constantly so it actually seems like scoring a win over them would be a monumental achievement.

Also, I don't stress so much about Del Rio and Barrett because neither of them should be considered main eventers yet. If that's your gauge of what a main eventer needs to be, you're doing it wrong.

I said in another thread, there's too much parity in wrestling. The top guys lose a lot. Punk just lost 3 times in one month yet he's the WWE champion. When stuff like that is happening, it jumbles everyone together. There's no concept of card placement when it comes to ability in matches. The way you build a star is by having him play a role to perfection. CM Punk is the "Best in the World" because of his real life ability to put on great matches. If he loses constantly, then within the world of wrestling, that makes him quite average. There needs to be more focus on this.

I'd start now with Dolph Ziggler. His matches with Sheamus did WONDERS for this idea. Start now and book him as this generation's Ric Flair. The heel who people just despise because despite his cheating ways, he's actually really good too. Give him a few months where he finally "gets it", drops Vickie and starts winning matches against the mid-card guys to the point where it's logical that he can step up to the next level. Meanwhile, you've got Sheamus taking on all comers and retaining the title. Doesn't lose a match. Then finally, it sets up Ziggler vs Sheamus for the title in an epic 30 or so minute match where Ziggler pulls off the shocking upset with a subtle little pull of the tights when he realizes that as good as he is, he may not be able to finish the job cleanly.

Ideally Sheamus' character would be tweaked enough at this point to where he's not getting stale like before and you can set up a feud that could potentially get both men over to a new level. You can even give Sheamus the title back at the end and both men are at a level where everyone should be saying "Man, I gotta get a shot at beating Dolph Ziggler. That could make my career." At the same time, it raises the World Title up and anyone who gets involved in that picture, provided they've already been booked in a somewhat deserving fashion, gets an automatic boost.

... I went on a little rant there. But yeah...

#1-norm-fan
06-10-2012, 07:18 PM
Make Ryback the champ

I actually probably could have said this too...

Ryback is the next big thing. Just throwing him in the main event scene soon and allowing him to be unstoppable as midcard to upper midcard guys try and fail to be the first to take him down would be awesome.

That's one reason I like the idea of a roster split. You can have one show lean more towards guys getting over via awesome wrestling and one show based more on characters with some great matches thrown in too. You can make everyone happy with one company. The writers are too scatter-brained though.

#1-norm-fan
06-10-2012, 07:18 PM
Also, Johnny Curtis needs to start being groomed right now, dammit.

#1-norm-fan
06-10-2012, 07:23 PM
This entire thread make me want to play TEW...

bigslimjj
06-10-2012, 07:24 PM
Cody Rhodes is my pick for next main event star. Hes great on promos and steals shows with his matches. Id put him in against Sheamus and add in some super heel stuff for him to go over. Maybe beat up Dusty,smack around Striker or Lawler. I would also let Kane get another title run on Smackdown as a face. Since we have heel big show and Bryan for him to work with there's opponents that can put together a good feud. Id put AJ with him as his crazy chick too. That would beef up the womens division.

#1-norm-fan
06-10-2012, 07:43 PM
Cody needs to pack some pounds on before I'd want him in the main event.

I don't mind him as a midcarder. He just doesn't have that main event feel to him though outside his last name.

Ultra Mantis
06-10-2012, 07:46 PM
Give the midcarders something to do. Put them in actual angles, see what clicks and what doesnt then push the guys who are getting over with the live crowds. Even the guys who are "almost there" like Cody and Ziggler just seem to be stuck in a loop of challenging for midcard titles instead of moving up. Give them some wins, have Cody actually go over an Orton or Big Show.

Nicky Fives
06-10-2012, 07:52 PM
fire all your writers and hire people who can actually book wrestling that will push the midcard talent (Ziggler, Rhodes, Barrett, etc.).....

XCaliber
06-10-2012, 07:53 PM
Push Sandow to the moon.

/thread.

Fixed oh and you're welcome but seriously though since nXt is supposedly in a transtiion period right now anyway with a crop of new talent coming in why not call up the bulk of the current roster temporarily and use them and see how they pan out before they go and future endeavor them?

GD
06-10-2012, 07:54 PM
The WWE should repackage Ted DiBiase Jr.

#1-norm-fan
06-10-2012, 07:55 PM
Give the midcarders something to do. Put them in actual angles, see what clicks and what doesnt then push the guys who are getting over with the live crowds. Even the guys who are "almost there" like Cody and Ziggler just seem to be stuck in a loop of challenging for midcard titles instead of moving up. Give them some wins, have Cody actually go over an Orton or Big Show.

This also. Feuds outside of the main event have been almost non-existent on Raw especially for a long time. They don't even try. Ridiculous.

Wake Up Call
06-10-2012, 08:08 PM
Stop being such a conservative "wrestling" company and push the envelope. No one is interested in the crap that the WWE produces now. The writing sucks, the characters suck, and the product overall sucks.

Triple Naitch
06-10-2012, 08:09 PM
Sounds like the writers need a.....Wake Up Call.

Triple Naitch
06-10-2012, 08:10 PM
Not posting Horatio Caine.

Wake Up Call
06-10-2012, 08:12 PM
Vince McMahon has killed Professional Wrestling.

BodySlam
06-10-2012, 08:13 PM
This entire thread make me want to play TEW...

same lol

Tazz Dan
06-10-2012, 08:17 PM
Vince McMahon has killed Professional Wrestling.

He also made professional wrestling. Only fair I guess

GD
06-10-2012, 08:22 PM
With the lack of depth in the current WWE roster, there should be some sort of talent exchange program. It would benefit both the companies. And I am not even kidding.

Damndirty
06-10-2012, 08:32 PM
fire all your writers and hire people who can actually book wrestling that will push the midcard talent (Ziggler, Rhodes, Barrett, etc.).....

If the writers are directly responsible for all the primary storylines carried out, then fucking right they need to go! If the higher ups, including the owner, are more directly responsible, then their interference shows they don't give the writers the freedom to utilitze proper storytelling because the elites are selfish or they are not confident with the writers. One thing is for sure, upper management and writing management is either not getting along or the entire management staff is using the shows for propaganda purposes only.

Indifferent Clox
06-11-2012, 09:06 AM
Further develop distinctions between title division. You need a huge entertaining angle for each belt. Their needs to be a star of each division, who isn't necessarily the champion. I'd have hunico become u.s. champion play up the immigration stuff maybe, have sin cara ( the star) go to take him on but lose. Have a returning Bourne have a good 3 ppv. Rivalry with him. Hunico still champion takes on sin cara once again but still wins. He has a rivalry with Tyson Kidd and is finally defeated. Sin cara then takes on hunico in non title feud whilst Tyson Kidd and Bourne feud. Tyson still champion takes on Dean Ambrose and is defeated. Sin cara finally beats hunico, takes on Tyson Kidd and Evan Bourne in a number one contenders series. While Dean Ambrose takes on hunico and finally Seth Rollins, who almost beats him and becomes the new face of the division.



You need to have all your people in rotating angles, not the same few in all of them. It makes your roster seem more interesting as you never know what the ppv card will be. Main eventers should be consistent but the other titles should be used to showcase the roster and build a few big names.

Rammsteinmad
06-11-2012, 09:21 AM
Bring back more retired wrestlers who are old and way past their primes.

GD
06-11-2012, 03:09 PM
WWE could probably use the following wrestlers

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/superstar_large/public/talent/profile/2012/02/batista_1_full.png

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/superstar_large/public/talent/profile/2012/02/chrismasters_1_full.png (As a full blown mid carder)

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/superstar_large/public/talent/profile/2012/02/goldust_3_full.png (Feud with Codswell)

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/superstar_large/public/talent/profile/2012/02/goldberg_1_full.png (For spearing random people)

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/superstar_large/public/talent/profile/2012/02/hurricane_1_full.png (More flavor to the non-existing Lightweight division)

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/superstar_large/public/talent/profile/2012/02/JBL_1_full.png (Commentator/Heel Manager)

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/superstar_large/public/talent/profile/2012/02/johnmorrison_1_full.png (IC contender level)

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/superstar_large/public/talent/profile/2012/02/lancestorm_1_full.png (Random feud with Tyson and Bryan)

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/superstar_large/public/talent/profile/2012/02/lita_1_full.png (Women's)

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/superstar_large/public/talent/profile/2012/02/maria_1_full.png (Backstage)

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/superstar_large/public/talent/profile/2012/02/maryse_1_full.png (Eye Candy)

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/superstar_large/public/talent/profile/2012/02/michellemccool_1_full.png (Women's)

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/superstar_large/public/talent/profile/2012/02/mickfoley_1_full.png (As a talent enhancer)

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/superstar_large/public/talent/profile/2012/02/shelton_1_full.png (US/IC level)

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/superstar_large/public/talent/profile/2012/02/seanwaltman_1_full.png (More flavor to the non-existing Lightweight division)

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/superstar_large/public/talent/profile/2012/02/tajiri_1_full.png (See Helms and X-Pac)

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/superstar_large/public/talent/profile/2012/02/vladimirkozlov_1_full.png (Comic relief)

I miss Umanga :(

James Steele
06-11-2012, 03:17 PM
I'm all for Batista, JBL, and Shelton Benjamin being brought back.

Lock Jaw
06-11-2012, 03:28 PM
Forget Sin Cara, and turn Hunico face and make him your big Mexican star.

Damndirty
06-11-2012, 03:30 PM
I think Hunico should make a new mask

Lock Jaw
06-11-2012, 03:35 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qsi63N-91lk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Seriously, what a nice sounding guy. Much more relate-able and likable than Sin Cara.

CSL
06-11-2012, 03:45 PM
When great men fall wearily, when an empire needs a saviour, when a dawn of destruction and pestilence threatens the very fabric of that empire, there is only one man capable of casting light onto the place we thought destined to be shrouded in shadows
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http://wrestling-match.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/4925086.jpeg

CSL
06-11-2012, 03:49 PM
would have been better if autoplay was working with a spoiler and theme. Fascists

GD
06-11-2012, 04:07 PM
Forget Sin Cara, and turn Hunico face and make him your big Mexican star.

Hunico is American. USA! USA! USA!

GD
06-11-2012, 04:07 PM
Sid will probably no show every single RAW and PPV.

CSL
06-11-2012, 04:09 PM
what the fuck did you just say

CSL
06-11-2012, 04:09 PM
do you want to get powerbombed?

GD
06-11-2012, 04:32 PM
What's that smell? Seems like someone went number two in their trunks.

RiX1024
06-11-2012, 05:16 PM
Push Mason Ryan.

Damndirty
06-11-2012, 05:29 PM
Hey, this gives an opportunity for half time to show some big tit lesbian sex segments and animals mauling one another. I'd pay good money to see that live!

Lock Jaw
06-11-2012, 06:18 PM
Hunico is American. USA! USA! USA!

So is Rey and Eddie G. They were close enough, though.

Triple Naitch
06-11-2012, 06:21 PM
I'd have hunico become u.s. champion play up the immigration stuff maybe, have sin cara ( the star) go to take him on but lose. Have a returning Bourne have a good 3 ppv. Rivalry with him. Hunico still champion takes on sin cara once again but still wins. He has a rivalry with Tyson Kidd and is finally defeated. Sin cara then takes on hunico in non title feud whilst Tyson Kidd and Bourne feud. Tyson still champion takes on Dean Ambrose and is defeated. Sin cara finally beats hunico, takes on Tyson Kidd and Evan Bourne in a number one contenders series. While Dean Ambrose takes on hunico and finally Seth Rollins, who almost beats him and becomes the new face of the division.



Hey guys, take the Chicano and put him in an immigration angle. That's never been done before.

Jordan
06-11-2012, 07:31 PM
Hunico is a babyface for sure

What Would Kevin Do?
06-11-2012, 07:42 PM
If WWE starts using more smaller guys in the main event (like Punk and DB), they'd solve a lot of their problems. If DB wins the title, turn Ziggler face and start that feud. They have a history, they have great matches together, and the crowd can easily get behind Ziggler.

Bring back Mysterio to feud with Punk. Make Mysterio sort of a tweener because of his history with Punk. Have him be sort of a nay sayer, trying to convince people Punk is still the same jerk he used to be. If done right, that feud could be amazing.

Sheamus needs to be more angry, less happy. Have him be like Austin where he'll beat anyone's ass, face or heel. Do a quick feud between him and Brodus that stems from Sheamus attacking Brodus because Brodus is dancing in the ring and Sheamus is sick of waiting for him to leave.

I was also thinking they should have an international round robin tournament to see who the best is. Have a wrestler from Canada, Mexico, the USA (maybe three, east, west, and midwest), Sweden, Italy, England, Japan, Ireland, etc. Make it a big deal, and right there you have a ton of easily booked matches and feuds. It's not the most innovative idea, but you'd get some good matches, some fresh matches, and the feuds would make themselves.

GD
06-11-2012, 07:47 PM
So is Rey and Eddie G. They were close enough, though.

Rey Rey and Eddie Guerrero were actually big names in Mexico. Just like Christopher Jericho.

Lock Jaw
06-11-2012, 07:49 PM
Doesn't matter. Hunico can still get the Mexican market.

GD
06-11-2012, 08:07 PM
True, true.

Damndirty
06-11-2012, 11:16 PM
Where's Max Moon when ya need him?

XCaliber
06-11-2012, 11:41 PM
Push Mason Ryan.

http://www.memecreator.com/static/images/templates/6725.jpg

Damndirty
06-12-2012, 01:51 AM
Ziggler, Ryder, and Ryback--- those are next big three, or the next big three soon-to-be throwbacks

K.Smoke
06-12-2012, 03:32 PM
Only reason we see the champion lose a lot is because they fight more than they use to. Now they fight about twice a week. So if we saw CM Punk lose 3 times we saw him fight about 8.

I agree the mid carders need to be moved up but we can also allow the top teir mid carders run through the roster. They can make fueds last longer. enstead of 1 ppv extend it 2 or 3 like it use to be.

BigCrippyZ
06-12-2012, 04:22 PM
Give the midcarders something to do. Put them in actual angles, see what clicks and what doesnt then push the guys who are getting over with the live crowds. Even the guys who are "almost there" like Cody and Ziggler just seem to be stuck in a loop of challenging for midcard titles instead of moving up. Give them some wins, have Cody actually go over an Orton or Big Show.

If the writers are directly responsible for all the primary storylines carried out, then fucking right they need to go! If the higher ups, including the owner, are more directly responsible, then their interference shows they don't give the writers the freedom to utilitze proper storytelling because the elites are selfish or they are not confident with the writers..

These ideas are good starts.

One thing would be bring back a tag team division, I mean you have 4 (soon to be 5) hours of tv time a week, and it's almost always singles matches or tag team matches with random pairings. I also think the brand split needs to come to an end, or at least there only needs to be ONE main event/world title, and scale back on the # of house shows you do, so as to not over work the crew/roster.

By having two world titles and essentially two main event scenes on the two shows, it really hurts the establishment and credibility of the true main event level guys. In the last two years, we've had Orton, Cena, Sheamus, CM Punk, Rey Mysterio, Jericho, Miz, Alberto Del Rio, Kane, Edge, Christian, Big Show, Ziggler, Mark Henry and Daniel Bryan all challenge for or hold either the WWE or WHC. That's a HUGE main event scene.

To me, there should only be at most 5-6 main event level guys (split pretty evenly between heels and faces) that you can swap in and out of various feuds for the world title, #1 contender, blood (busy) feuds, or to bring up a new main eventer from the lower card, etc., with no more than 3-4 going for the world title at one time. This also allows for former main event level part-timers like HHH, Rock, Jericho, Taker to come back and have credible main event level feuds for short periods.

Not only that, but having essentially two world/main event titles, devalues and discredits the main event level feuds, etc. For example, if CM Punk, Daniel Bryan and John Cena are your top few guys in the company, why would I care who wins the WWE title match, they can just go challenge for the other world title. It's just a lazy and easy way to write someone in or out of the main event storyline on one show and keep them in the "main event".

Another big part of this includes, only keeping the best of the best in the main event scene. Guys should really have to prove themselves all around, on the mic, with the crowd, in the ring, and behind the curtain (no drugs, etc.) to get to that main event level. They would have to do this by going up the ranks, proving themselves and getting over through the lower and mid card titles and feuds, US, IC, Cruiserweight, etc. It should be a big deal (backstage and with the fans/crowds) when guys finally break through to the main event level and get a world title shot. This also assumes that you're going to always have some solid guys that will always be lower and mid card or tag team level guys. This also depends a lot upon the booking and writing improving and being pretty damn consistent throughout the year or even years.

Emperor Smeat
06-12-2012, 04:36 PM
Rebuild or put more emphasis on non-main event level stuff.

They have plenty of cruiser-weight type wrestlers that they could rebuild that division or pair them up for tag teams to beef up that division and create more variety with their shows. Same for the women's division just so it brings more variety in the show and not stuck always using the same couple of people every week.

An easier solution might be just to refocus on the US and IC level considering that traditionally has been the stepping stone for future stars. It even works to help reduce the over crowded main event scene which usually leads to a few wrestlers being ignored for weeks.

Damndirty
06-12-2012, 05:54 PM
[quote=BigCrippyZ;3890188]

Not only that, but having essentially two world/main event titles, devalues and discredits the main event level feuds, etc. For example, if CM Punk, Daniel Bryan and John Cena are your top few guys in the company, why would I care who wins the WWE title match, they can just go challenge for the other world title. It's just a lazy and easy way to write someone in or out of the main event storyline on one show and keep them in the "main event".
[quote]

See, this I think is the biggest of their problems. The two main event card is moronic if the superstars are freely going back and forth between shows. Having one title not only shows a greater importance of the champ, but the contender/s. And here's something I haven't seen on a PPV in a longtime- a match for the #1 contender's spot that excludes MITB and Royal Rumble. With only half the value of the title, nobody could give a good goddam about a match like that. MITB and Royal Rumble are specialties restricted to the PPV named after them, but nobody gives a rat's ass about a straight one on one at a PPV anymore, given the current status.

K.Smoke
06-12-2012, 07:42 PM
ok hopefully i don't start a arguement by saying that the WWE title is bigger than the WHC. That being said it should be made clearer. It should be billed as the final goal. The challenger should have to go through all the other belts to get to the WWE title. The WH champion should be the # 1 contender to the WWE. The WWE champion shouldn't fight every week though.

James Steele
06-12-2012, 07:47 PM
ok hopefully i don't start a arguement by saying that the WWE title is bigger than the WHC. That being said it should be made clearer. It should be billed as the final goal. The challenger should have to go through all the other belts to get to the WWE title. The WH champion should be the # 1 contender to the WWE. The WWE champion shouldn't fight every week though.

They are both World Championships though. Without the brand boundaries it is way more confusing though. At one time, the World Title was bigger than the WWE title (Thank you, Triple H). The wrestlers and storylines determine which belt is the bigger belt. I will also say that as long as the WWE Title looks fucking stupid and the other belt is the Big Gold Belt, then the WWE Title can't be the undisputed top title.

Tom Guycott
06-12-2012, 09:35 PM
I don't understand why people still call for the end of the brand splitting.

It's the best thing they could possibly do... IF THEY STUCK TO WHY THEY DID IT TO BEGIN WITH!

As has been said, having two world champions doesn't neccessarily devalue the position, as having two midcard titles don't devalue those. The problem is that there is that by and large, there is no angle or build around them. There is no WHY to the argument that the champions are the champions.

With that said:

1) I agree that they need to kind of chill out with the champions looking like superheavyweights. Bryan and Punk are good starts to that. The reason why "you won't buy" someone like Cody Rhodes being champion is because of the comparitive landscape. Stop pushing the idea that insanely muscular = ability. More "above average" build guys in that role instead of "jacked up monsters" not only puts over the freakish nature of said jacked up monsters, but makes it easier for someone like Cody to enter a role he has all the tools for.

2) At the same time, someone like Ryback shouldn't be hotshotted to main event level simply because he's impressinve looking. I'm more or less entertained by Skippy, but no matter how much he looks the shit, he has no character, angle, or direction yet other than feed the gladiator squash matches. You already have people up the card, he has plenty of time to come into his own.

3) Give other people something to do. I touched on this in another thread, but angles shouldn't just simply be X vs Y for the next PPV then moving on. Angles can intersect, characters can interact, and something like the U.S. Title scene for example can involve people who aren't even in the hunt for the title just because of their relationships with the current champ, main contenders, former champs, or even valets. Even something as rediculous as having Ryder defend the (unrecognized, like the FTW Title) Internet Championship, it would give Zack and at least one other person some sort of angle, and thus exposure, on TV.

Hell, even the stuff like FCW's Ambrose/Regal need done in WWE. This doesn't even involve a damn title, and it is exactly what I mean by giving someone something to do. It's a guy trying to impress his mentor. Not saying do this angle, just saying it's a good idea to do something along those lines and doesn't HAVE to be about some championship. As long as it gives them ring and promo time, it can help a career or two. Same as with Henning* and Kidd. Shame this wasn't on a show everyone watches.

4) Elevate the Tag and Diva divisions. Yeah, I get it. Girls are piss breaks. I wouldn't think any better of it either if you let it degenerate to all hell. I like Layla being the champ, but as much as I love Layla, as a fan of wrestling, I don't care. Why? Because we haven't gotten any motivation to get behind her as a champion. Hell, the damn Lay-Cool music seems out of place for a bubbly babyface, and they didn't see fit to change it for her return that they had a freakin' year to plan for (my choice would have been the obvious route of Derek & the Dominoes on her return... that opening riff would have helped cause a bigger pop). And, are we to believe that only Layla and Beth are even in the Diva's division? The Tag Division is abound with a bunch of nameless pairs of singles stars who, for the most part, are thrown together. While I understand that often a team's identity can derail a possible single's career (looking at you, JTG), the fact that Primo & Epico are just Primo & Epico kind of bugs me; remember the Rockers? They weren't the team of "Shawn Michaels and Marty Janetty". Bret Hart & Jim Neidhardt didnt earn a reputation as a formidable tag team, it was the goddamn Hart Foundation. The Usos need to do a little more something to differenciate them from the other... almost like early Hardyz, nobody knew which one was which until Matt became more of a "powerhouse" and Jeff jumped off of everything he could climb. Back to point- stop throwing the belts on two random people and invent some teams that can work well together and NAME THEM.

GD
06-12-2012, 09:43 PM
Push Mason Ryan.

Off a cliff?

Tom Guycott
06-12-2012, 10:08 PM
I had lost my train of thought. Forgot one.

5) Everyone established doesn't have to be on TV every week. Or, if they are, they don't need extended time. Zack Ryder only getting like 15 seconds of TV time is a running gag, but the point is he still gets a pop when he shows up. Remember the big knock on HHH when he was pretty much the man was how much TV time he would eat up out of RAW: a 15 minute in-ring promo, at least 3 backstage segments, and a main even that spanned two commercial breaks. Every show. That's time they could have spent somewhere else. Or, at the very least, follow that formula, just not on a weekly basis. Fast foward to now: we have what's sure to be HHH/Lesnar, but they're not on TV all the goddamn time. We know it's coming, but we don't need to see them all day every day to know about it. I get that it's out of neccessity with Lesnar's limited dates, but still... they did the same with Undertaker. Or The Rock. They didn't have to be in the ring everyday then shoehorned into the next gimmicked main event to close the show. They need to do that limiting a bit more. Santino doesn't have to embarass Ricardo every RAW for us to remember they're feuding. And even with that, it's the part of the job of the announce team to remind us what we may have forgotten. You can rotate more talent on-air that way.

#1-norm-fan
06-12-2012, 10:13 PM
I agree. Less is more when it comes to your stars' exposure.

BigCrippyZ
06-12-2012, 10:28 PM
5) Everyone established doesn't have to be on TV every week. Or, if they are, they don't need extended time. Zack Ryder only getting like 15 seconds of TV time is a running gag, but the point is he still gets a pop when he shows up. Remember the big knock on HHH when he was pretty much the man was how much TV time he would eat up out of RAW: a 15 minute in-ring promo, at least 3 backstage segments, and a main even that spanned two commercial breaks. Every show. That's time they could have spent somewhere else. Or, at the very least, follow that formula, just not on a weekly basis. Fast foward to now: we have what's sure to be HHH/Lesnar, but they're not on TV all the goddamn time. We know it's coming, but we don't need to see them all day every day to know about it. I get that it's out of neccessity with Lesnar's limited dates, but still... they did the same with Undertaker. Or The Rock. They didn't have to be in the ring everyday then shoehorned into the next gimmicked main event to close the show. They need to do that limiting a bit more. Santino doesn't have to embarass Ricardo every RAW for us to remember they're feuding. And even with that, it's the part of the job of the announce team to remind us what we may have forgotten. You can rotate more talent on-air that way.

Definitely this.

Mr. Nerfect
06-13-2012, 02:22 AM
Give the midcarders something to do. Put them in actual angles, see what clicks and what doesnt then push the guys who are getting over with the live crowds. Even the guys who are "almost there" like Cody and Ziggler just seem to be stuck in a loop of challenging for midcard titles instead of moving up. Give them some wins, have Cody actually go over an Orton or Big Show.

Exactly this. People should not only care about your John Cena's and Sheamus's, but also your Michael McGillicutty's and Tyson Kidd's. A top-to-bottom booking approach will make your entire shows worth watching, and get people invested long-term. It won't matter if Zack Ryder never becomes a WWE Champion if people care enough about him becoming the US Champion, for example.

Great stories like the one being told between CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Kane and AJ will help, too. Don't rush it. The outcome of the Triple Threat Match will no doubt piss two people off, so that should actually lead somewhere. Don't just drop the losers' issues with the winner.

Dolph Ziggler has got an amazing opportunity right now, and it appears that the fans are starting to get behind him. I'm not sure if Ziggler should become the World Heavyweight Champion at No Way Out, but the WWE should definitely see this as more than "filler" for Ziggler. He could perhaps tell Vickie and Jack Swagger to stay out of his business, only for Vickie and Swagger to become involved -- either leading to Ziggler becoming World Champion that way, or in Ziggler getting distracted and losing the match. I actually think it would be far more compelling for Ziggler to walk out of No Way Out champion, but whatever.

Road Warrior
06-13-2012, 02:37 AM
Like the idea with Ziggler as I feel the only way he's going to be really over is as a face. I'm just not sure if people would care to much about a Ziggler/Swagger fued. Maybe they could do that for a minute then have Vicky bring in someone different to face Ziggler.

#1-norm-fan
06-13-2012, 04:58 AM
I wouldn't mind a Ziggler/Swagger feud at all. Have Swagger cost Ziggler accidentally against Sheamus then Ziggler, with the crowd crazy behind him while they face off just goes ballistic on Swagger. You can have the two of them feud just to mark Ziggler's "Coming out" as a face feud. He can clearly be put over Swagger while making Swagger at least look like he could keep up with Ziggler and making Swagger a realistic midcard guy.

K.Smoke
06-13-2012, 03:53 PM
Vince McMahan loves the hulks hey don't ask don't tell u know. But though Hulk Hogan became famous for carrying the WWE. It was the talent of Superfly, Ricky the Dragon steamboat, Million Dollar man who carry the sport in true since all we saw was an occassional match Hulk Hogan. Wasnt televised as much. but he was a great talker. Meanwhile Jake the Snake roberts and Ravishing Rick Rude and their like fought every week almost. Thats the wrestling I missed. Hogan use to get me pumped up to see his match and even though he had about 5 solid moves, they were great when he did it. But we didn't see the leg drop every week. We would get the million dollar dream or the rude awakening or DDT or shake rattle and roll etc etc.

XL
06-13-2012, 05:13 PM
Was there an answer to the question amongst that drivel?

Keith
06-14-2012, 02:45 AM
I believe the way to go about it is simply go back to treating the two brands, Raw and Smackdown, as two separate entities. No one from Raw shows up on Smackdown, and viceversa. Create compelling storylines that are exclusive to each of the two brands, and again, don't follow up on any storylines from Raw on Smackdown, and viceversa. We know Raw is and perhaps always will be the "main" program, but in order to Make the fans tune in you must treat each show the same, balance out the top stars so you can have an equal number (or close to it) on each show.

And of course, extend the "exclusiveness" of each brand to house shows. Again, no one from Raw shows up on Smackdown's house shows, and viceversa.

In summary, treat the two brands as if they were two separate companies, independent from each other.

Fox
06-14-2012, 09:33 AM
As much as I wish WWE could just elevate talent from within the company, they don't have time to do that, and they've done a pretty good job of proving that they are incapable of elevating their own guys.

They need to raid TNA. Bring in any of Kurt Angle, Rob Van Dam, Bobby Roode, James Storm, Samoa Joe, AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels or Austin Aries, and make them legitimate from the very first night they arrive. Have AJ Styles save John Cena from a beatdown in the last segment of RAW - he just appears out of nowhere and hits his big moves on someone like Tensai or The Miz. Instant credibility. All Kurt would have to do is walk in the building. Samoa Joe could show up and batter Sheamus to a broken piece of shit and hold up the World Heavyweight Title. Instant credibility.

I recognize this won't happen because of contracts and because WWE won't push a talent who was created "outside the WWE machine" without making them "prove themselves" first. But still. It would work.

XL
06-14-2012, 10:33 AM
I believe the way to go about it is simply go back to treating the two brands, Raw and Smackdown, as two separate entities. No one from Raw shows up on Smackdown, and viceversa. Create compelling storylines that are exclusive to each of the two brands, and again, don't follow up on any storylines from Raw on Smackdown, and viceversa. We know Raw is and perhaps always will be the "main" program, but in order to Make the fans tune in you must treat each show the same, balance out the top stars so you can have an equal number (or close to it) on each show.

And of course, extend the "exclusiveness" of each brand to house shows. Again, no one from Raw shows up on Smackdown's house shows, and viceversa.

In summary, treat the two brands as if they were two separate companies, independent from each other.
I think they'd be better off officially combining the rosters and/or titles than they would making the brands more seperate.

The issue at hand is that they don't have a large enough pool of Main Event calibre talent from which to draw. Splitting the guys that they do have across 2 brands only makes that more glaring.

Whilst I'd love to say push Cody, Ziggler, etc to the moon and see how they do, I feel you need a longer, more progressive build to the Main Event for the fans to really buy any new guy as a Main Event threat. So in the interim, combine Cena, Punk, Sheamus, etc as one Main Event bracket along with Kane, Big Show and Bryan for the short-term. Meanwhile, you aim to give Ziggler and Rhodes really strong storylines with the eventual outcome being one or both of them getting over enough to crack the Main Event scene.

When Orton, ADR, Mysterio, Jericho, etc are cleared to compete/return from suspension you make a judgement call whether to place them back in a Main Event role.

For someone like Orton I'd have him jump straight back into the top bracket only to lose to Ziggler/Rhodes - presuming they have made it by then - to establish that Orton can no longer cut it with this "new breed of Main Eventer", thereby giving Ziggler/Rhodes a further rub and "punishing" Orton.

Overall, I'm pleased to see that few people have said "Call Taker/HHH/Rock" or "use some of Brocks dates".

Ermaximus
06-14-2012, 12:17 PM
Have Ricardo say fuck Del Rio and tag with Sin Cara and adopt his own mask. Then have Epico and Primo become a luchador tag team as well. Then have Hunico turn face and also don a mask. Hell, you might as well have Rosa wear one too, but have her be the only one that ever talks. So now you have 5 masked wrestlers that never talk and a masked diva that only talks. Have them all win a title. Cara wins the WWE, Hunico the WHC, Primo and Epico the Tag Titles, Ricardo the US, and Rosa can even win the Divas Title. Then have Comacho come begging to be the "6th man" in the stable, but have the other 5 make him earn his mask. At first Comacho can beat guys with little effort. Baretta, Reks, Hawkins, Slater, etc. Then have him face a "mystery opponent" at a random PPV where if he wins, he earns his mask, but if he loses, he is to be shunned forever by all luchadors worldwide. So at random PPV, he is out in the ring waiting for his opponent and out comes none other than Rey Mysterio. Clearly Comacho loses, so he is shunned, but have Rey join the group instead. Rey can win the IC Title the next night on Raw and then the Luchas hold all the gold. They can even bring back the old LWO gimmick, but change it from Latino to Luchador World Order.

Mr. Nerfect
06-15-2012, 08:06 PM
Forget Sin Cara, and turn Hunico face and make him your big Mexican star.

I disagree with the WWE forgetting Sin Cara, but I absolutely think that the WWE should turn Hunico face and push him to the fucking moon. The dude might be 34, but he can obviously fucking go. Few guys in the WWE are as fluid and competent in the ring as he is. The man can fucking fly, he can work on the mat and he can talk. His offence looks crisp, but it also looks pretty hard-hitting at times. He's got the WWE style down, and he can be used as the top Hispanic star as Sin Cara learns the WWE style.

And, as you said -- what a relatable man! His story could be so easy to turn him into a plucky babyface. The dude worked in Mexico, where he invented an identity for himself which he had to discard when suits came and told him he didn't have the legal rights to it. He was screwed out of millions of dollars in his mind, and has been a victim because all he knows is wrestling -- not the business side of things. He came to the WWE, convinced the entire world that he was the famed masked marvel Sin Cara, and even did things like put Daniel Bryan in Bryan's own signature submission hold.

Turning Hunico face would be so easy. You have a heel on the SmackDown! roster who is a rich Mexican aristocrat who hates poor people. It writes itself: Hunico bumps into Del Rio backstage and calls him a "rata." Hunico takes offence to being called that, because he made a promise to himself years ago that no one would ever step over him again. Del Rio and Hunico have a match, and Del Rio wins when Camacho turns on Hunico.

Del Rio reveals that he has paid Camacho money to betray Hunico and align himself with Del Rio. Camacho seems conflicted about the whole thing -- on one hand, he owes so much of what he has learned and getting out of the life he was in to Hunico; but on the other, he has to look out for Camacho, right? So, while Camacho "sells out," he tells Hunico that he respects and loves him, but he had to do what he had to do because he doesn't want to be like Hunico and always looking up at the world. Del Rio's given him a chance to be on top of the mountain.

Hunico then says that he thought that Camacho was a better person than that, and that if Camacho had proper respect for him, then he'd have known that it was the dumbest idea in the world to piss him off. Hunico says that he has one more lesson to teach Camacho -- and he's going to do that by beating his ass. The two then have a mini-feud, where Hunico manages to overcome Ricardo Rodriguez interference and beats Camacho a couple of times en route to facing Del Rio again, where Hunico wins via disqualification when Camacho and Rodriguez attack Hunico during the match. Steel Cage blow-off, where Hunico manages to beat Del Rio, and everyone is happy.

At the end of the feud, you could even have Del Rio blame the loss on Camacho, and Camacho turn on Del Rio, becoming a babyface himself. He doesn't need to get back on-board with Hunico, but the two could bump into each other backstage and Hunico could say "It was good to see you finally be a man," or something along those lines.

Mr. Nerfect
06-15-2012, 08:25 PM
I don't understand why people still call for the end of the brand splitting.

It's the best thing they could possibly do... IF THEY STUCK TO WHY THEY DID IT TO BEGIN WITH!

As has been said, having two world champions doesn't neccessarily devalue the position, as having two midcard titles don't devalue those. The problem is that there is that by and large, there is no angle or build around them. There is no WHY to the argument that the champions are the champions.

With that said:

1) I agree that they need to kind of chill out with the champions looking like superheavyweights. Bryan and Punk are good starts to that. The reason why "you won't buy" someone like Cody Rhodes being champion is because of the comparitive landscape. Stop pushing the idea that insanely muscular = ability. More "above average" build guys in that role instead of "jacked up monsters" not only puts over the freakish nature of said jacked up monsters, but makes it easier for someone like Cody to enter a role he has all the tools for.

2) At the same time, someone like Ryback shouldn't be hotshotted to main event level simply because he's impressinve looking. I'm more or less entertained by Skippy, but no matter how much he looks the shit, he has no character, angle, or direction yet other than feed the gladiator squash matches. You already have people up the card, he has plenty of time to come into his own.

3) Give other people something to do. I touched on this in another thread, but angles shouldn't just simply be X vs Y for the next PPV then moving on. Angles can intersect, characters can interact, and something like the U.S. Title scene for example can involve people who aren't even in the hunt for the title just because of their relationships with the current champ, main contenders, former champs, or even valets. Even something as rediculous as having Ryder defend the (unrecognized, like the FTW Title) Internet Championship, it would give Zack and at least one other person some sort of angle, and thus exposure, on TV.

Hell, even the stuff like FCW's Ambrose/Regal need done in WWE. This doesn't even involve a damn title, and it is exactly what I mean by giving someone something to do. It's a guy trying to impress his mentor. Not saying do this angle, just saying it's a good idea to do something along those lines and doesn't HAVE to be about some championship. As long as it gives them ring and promo time, it can help a career or two. Same as with Henning* and Kidd. Shame this wasn't on a show everyone watches.

4) Elevate the Tag and Diva divisions. Yeah, I get it. Girls are piss breaks. I wouldn't think any better of it either if you let it degenerate to all hell. I like Layla being the champ, but as much as I love Layla, as a fan of wrestling, I don't care. Why? Because we haven't gotten any motivation to get behind her as a champion. Hell, the damn Lay-Cool music seems out of place for a bubbly babyface, and they didn't see fit to change it for her return that they had a freakin' year to plan for (my choice would have been the obvious route of Derek & the Dominoes on her return... that opening riff would have helped cause a bigger pop). And, are we to believe that only Layla and Beth are even in the Diva's division? The Tag Division is abound with a bunch of nameless pairs of singles stars who, for the most part, are thrown together. While I understand that often a team's identity can derail a possible single's career (looking at you, JTG), the fact that Primo & Epico are just Primo & Epico kind of bugs me; remember the Rockers? They weren't the team of "Shawn Michaels and Marty Janetty". Bret Hart & Jim Neidhardt didnt earn a reputation as a formidable tag team, it was the goddamn Hart Foundation. The Usos need to do a little more something to differenciate them from the other... almost like early Hardyz, nobody knew which one was which until Matt became more of a "powerhouse" and Jeff jumped off of everything he could climb. Back to point- stop throwing the belts on two random people and invent some teams that can work well together and NAME THEM.

Beautiful post. Absolutely beautiful. I really believe that the brand split should continue forward, and that brand lines should be re-established. Having fixed rosters can help prevent the fatigue of the talent, it can create more jobs, it can create more stars and it can potentially make a lot of money. It also allows for special shows where the rosters are unified to mean something. Who the fuck would care about the draft when a SmackDown! Superstar can challenge for the WWE Title at any time? But that all changes if the SmackDown! Superstar getting the shot would take the championship back with them to SmackDown!, or if them being drafted to RAW means that they won't be on SmackDown! any more.

I agree perfectly with guys not being over-exposed. Ryback doesn't need to be killing jobbers on TV all the time. Let him work all the house shows, and keep his streak going; but it doesn't need to be on every show and every PPV. It's just rushing towards the inevitable end of it far quicker.

Shows should mean something from top-to-bottom, and making people care about your women, your tag teams and your mid and lower cards is the first step towards that. Fixed rosters would help, too. People are going to care more about Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel as a team if they are SmackDown!'s babyface team, aren't bumped from SmackDown! shows for a RAW babyface team getting exposure on SyFy. This can also create "dream match" scenarios, where a face team on RAW and a face team on SmackDown! would split fans as to who they think is ultimately better. There's a WrestleMania tag team match set up for you.

I'm really hoping that John Cena beats Big Show at No Way Out, and that the role John Laurinaitis currently plays is split-up and goes to two different characters (who can actually talk). Paul Heyman on RAW would be fantastic, while a new character on SmackDown! would be refreshing. Why not Maxine? She's a female character that can talk, and you could have her old flame Johnny Curtis come back into her life, with new partner Michael McGillicutty. There's a heel tag team to feud with Gabriel & Kidd. Maxine could also get pay-back on William Regal for her mistreatment on NXT, and force Regal into a "farewell tour" of sorts. It'd make for some great matches, and a sympathetic storyline for Regal.

Those are just random examples of how the draft could help many different performers get over and established, and how seeming gaps in the shows could be filled by compelling storylines developing the overall product.

Mr. Nerfect
06-15-2012, 08:48 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-2CYF3fZkOA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Proof.

#1-norm-fan
06-16-2012, 01:37 AM
Also, building a face up for a year and using WrestleMania to put him over instead of just putting over a guy who wrestles once a year would be an awesome idea. They should work on that.