What is it that makes a character a villain?

[Zeeboe]

From what I have seen in films - Virtually all villains were victimized at one point. However, instead of being able to rise above it, some people become what victimized them, and the hate spreads like a sickness.

A villain essentially has a negative impact on everyone around them. Because something bad happened to them, and because they cannot forgive and forget, they desire to make the whole world pay because if they are unhappy, then everyone has to be. And if they cannot seek revenge against the actual person who caused them pain, they seek to take their anger out on others.

Heroes and villains in some films are usually faces of rebellion. The hero is the light face of it, and the villain is the dark face of it, but truly, the real villain is usually the system itself that the hero and villain oppose.

[dronepool]

Q: Where did the title Born Villain come from?

Marilyn Manson: Born Villain was not my original idea for the title. I was thinking of calling it Co-Morbid, but that sounded too mis-perceived death metal, because of the word “morbid” in it. Of course, the word refers to a psychiatry idea - and I don’t believe in psychiatry or psychology. I’m open-minded to things, but psychiatry is not really something that has ever proved to be successful. But co-morbidity is when you have more than one mental disorder, and they can’t prove which one you have. it’s really just an excuse to give people medicine, so that’s why I didn’t call it that. Born Villain started with me saying to someone, “Gentleman prefer blondes... but I’m a villain.” And villains have always been, for me, the most interesting and captivating and exciting - my favorite characters in any book or film.

Q: What about real-life villains?

Marilyn Manson: Not necessarily in real life, although at the same time it does go back to Charles Manson and Marilyn Monroe, people that live on the edge, people that are dangerous, people who are outlaws. I think “outlaw” is a great term that I really identify with. I’m at a point in my life where I do not want to go to prison, ever. I’ve been to jail - Jacksonville Correctional Facility [in 1994 after being arrested for indecent exposure] - simply fot two days, but it was a hard two days. I took a beating. I mouthed off and learned my lesson, washed my fave in Palmolive in the toilet, that type of thing. But I like the idea of “outlaw,” more than just in the fantasy sense of Eat Me, Drink Me, when I was talking about Bonnie and Clyde. Of course, I’ve done dangerous things. I’ve tried to kill people before, and I’ve been accused of killing people I wasn’t even around for. So I’m already a pariah - I’m like Pariah Carey! [Laughs] But I feel that if someone fucks with someone that I love, or means the world to me - be it friends, family, partners, my cat, my career - I’m gonna defend that in any way I need to. Now, I’m not gonna do it stupid. And also, when it comes to payback, I’m not a conventional revenge person. I’m the type of person who will wait for someone’s grandchildren to grow up, and then have them beaten by a gang with pipes, old-fashioned style.

Q: OK then, who are some of your favorite fictional villains?

Marilyn Manson: Well, you’ve got Ming the Merciless [from Flash Gordon], you’ve got Lucifer... People confuse Lucifer with Satan, but I like Lucifer, because he was strong. He was an angel cast out of Heaven bcause he was like, “Why the fuck do you get to sit on the throne, motherfucker?” Lucifer’s the all-time one. Hannibal Lecter’s a good one. I think in most Edgar Allan Poe stories, the villain is always strong. I think Robert De Niro in Cape Fear, he was a great villain. That was a great movie, because Nick Nolte was technically more of a villain than he was. I like a movie where the moral code is ambiguous, where the protagonist-antagonist line is completely skewed. Dexter, strong villain. Boardwalk Empire, a show that I love, it’s hard to say who’s the real villain in that one. I like Chalky White - he’s black. Just wanted to give a shout-out to the black villains! [Laughs] Snow White, the witch is strong. Bobby Peru, Willem Dafoe’s character in Wild at Heart. Humbert Humbert in Lolita. Marcbeth is a villain. Dracula’s a villain. Frankenstein’s a villain. But they’re all victims of circumstance. It’s almost nature versus nurture. They’re fabricated. They’re almost built to play that role.

Q: In fact, most villains aren’t born.

Marilyn Manson: No, they’re not. That’s the irony there. Thanks for noticing that. You’re not born a villain. And the refrain of that song’s chorus is, “I’m a born villain/Don’t pretend to be a victim.” People assume that you’re born into it, but when you grow up with people always telling you that you’re doing bad things, that is nurture, not nature. So Born Villain is a contradiction in itself. But honestly, it’s hard to think of all the great villains... I don’t like women villains, though.

Q: Why not?

Marilyn Manson: Because they will cut your dick off and hurt you, metaphorically and spiritually. [Laughs] OK, I’ll tell you my favorite villain - Patrick Bateman from American Psycho. Most amusing villain. It’s a toss-up for people when they talk about the movie and the book, and I love both of them. Is it imagined? Is it a statement on how the boy next door can be everything that you don’t imagine him to be? Is it a comedy? Is it a horror story? It’s one of my favorite books, I would say. I find that character to be so humorous, because he cites pop songs as his reasons for doing his murders. And when you think about it, seemingly innocuous pop songs are the most violent. When you listen to something like Neil Diamond singing, “Girl, You’ll Be A Woman Soon,”that’s rapey! That’s like child pornography. There’s so much darkness in all those pop songs.



Marilyn Manson

[Swiss Ultimate]

A good villain needs a good hero to play off of. We have to like the hero or at least like what he's trying to do and the villain, for whatever reason, has to want to stop the hero from obtaining his objective.

So if the hero needs to save the bus full of orphans, the villain needs to do everything in his power to stop him. He might even have a valid reason for doing it, like his parents were murdered by orphans or there are secret files on the bus that would destroy everything the villain had ever worked for.

If the hero is working towards world peace, the villain just needs to start a war for whatever reason. That said, if the hero isn't likable and his goal isn't something the audience can get behind, then you have failed.

[Zeeboe]

I enjoyed reading that dronepool. Very insightful. I agree with him. Thank you for posting that.

[dronepool]

Glad you enjoyed it, figured it was on topic.

[Kalyx triaD]

I personally don't like when a villain is too sympathetic, some of them are just assholes - and I like those. When you trace a villains 'rudeness' to some past horrible thing and they 'never forgive/vow revenge/hold a massive grudge' it defangs a villain, imo. because at some point, they could be redeemed or whatever. And if they don't, it's like "Shit, all he needed was therapy and they blew him up." It never sits well for me.

The bad guy in Die Hard is my type of villain. No tragic past or grudge, he's just a dick. One dimensional, sure, but I'm good with that.

[Zeeboe]

To me, it's realistic to have a villain have that type of past because most villains in real life don't see themselves as bad people. Bin Laden for example probably saw 9/11 as a good thing since his people were attacked by U.S. troops before.


It also just seems like every villain had something bad happen to them:

Max Cady from Cape Fear (the remake) - He was given an unfair trail and was sexually abused in prison.

Freddy Krueger - Abused as a child by his step-father, and bullied in school.

Jason Voorhees - Born deformed, bullied as a child, and left to drown.

The Wicked Witch of The West - Her sister died.

Jigsaw - Dying from cancer.

Norman Bates - Abused by his Mother.

Johnny Lawrence from The Karate Kid - Has a physically abusive man as his sensi. That man's name...

John Kreese - Served in Vietnam, and could have been a P.O.W. at one point. Plenty of Vietnam vets had a hard time adjusting to life after the war, and Kreese was clearly one of them, which explained his anger and hate.


Then of course, there's characters like The Terminator, Jaws, Michael Myers, etc. Of course, it could be said that Jaws is a wild animal who doesn't know any better, and is just looking for food, and/or he is defending his turf. But I agree not all villains are victims, but I think plenty are, which explains their actions.

But I can also agree that having a villain who has no likeable traits and is just an asshole or a bitch can be entertaining as well, especially when they get their comeuppance.