QUESTION - Was anyone else really impressed by "The Shield" this past Monday?

[Heyman]

QUESTION - Was anyone else really impressed by "The Shield" this past Monday?

I don't watch NXT (or even Smackdown for that matter) and so I had never seen these guys before. The only guy I had heard of prior to Monday was Dean Ambrose......due to his run-in with Mick Foley at Wrestlemania.

Anyways - I think their promo on Monday was amazing. Dean Ambrose really looked good and confident, and I loved how he mentioned the fact that they weren't the new Nexus or the nWo ( and if someone wanted to see nWo, then he/she should go watch the DVD's).

Anyways - just wanted to give my props. I was extremely impressed with what I saw.

[Nicky Fives]

My only beef is that they kept referring to them as "The NXT 3" prior to being revealed as The Shield, yet Ambrose has never appeared on the show, or WWE television ever before.... I don't know if he can go on the ring, but he certainly can talk.... Reigns has the look and potential to be the star and Rollins, despite needing to get a little more polished on the microphone, can go in the ring..... All 3 have a bright future.....

[el bobbo]

Ambrose has some crazy ass mic skills. His voice just projects this lazy, almost southern drawl which produces some kind of excellent confidence. I can't really put my finger on it, but I'm looking forward to hearing more from him (pending creative doesn't fuck it up).

[Shisen Kopf]

http://tvquotes.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/shield.gif

It was a good show.

[dronepool]

Haven't watched NXT since season 3 or something but I dug their promo.

[Juan]

I am cautiously optimistic about The Shield

[XCaliber]

Was suprised with how well Dean Ambrose did in the interview Rollins not so much but mic work is obviously not his strong point and Reigns served his purpose as the muscle of the group it definetly has potential.

[Tom Guycott]

I didn't get to see RAW this week. I guess that answered my question on why, in the beatdowns, they were dressed like cops... actually, I believe I said "dressed like Big Bossman" referring to his corporation security getup, minus the aviators.

I just thought they were going to be painted as private security for Punk. I think I'm with Juan here.

Also, I think this may answer my other question about NXT being a universe (pun unintentional, but applicable) unto itself.

[Gertner]

Ambrose is the only one worth investing in. Reigns is terrible in the ring and on the mic and Rollins is about as bland as they come.

[Tom Guycott]

Rollins isn't as bad a talker as everyone makes him out to be. He's nowhere near Ambrose, but Mox is one of those one in a million guys- to compare them, especially now, is pretty unfair. Seth is not one of the greats by any stretch, but he just needs time and polish.

Reigns, on the other hand... I saw ONE promo, and it was about as forced and uncomfortable as Otunga was in "NXT competition" days (actually, Otunga was worse, but not by much). Being the reserved, strong & silent type seems a good way to hide that until he gets the opportunity to improve.

[The Condor]

They were alright, and the Bossman gear comparison is spot on. We'll see but I'm neither optimistic nor pessimistic at this juncture.

[Cuse8]

im hopeful. ambrose can be the mouth of the group. reigns the silent but deadly type and rollins a little of both. i think once people see rollins in the ring they will not care as much about his mic work (which like others have said is not as bad as you think)

[Innovator]

Ambrose and Reigns impressed me. Ambrose is the goods on the mic, and Reigns has as good niche as the muscle of the group. Rollins needs to be kept away from the mic.

[Schlomey]

I'm still very confused as to which one is which.

[Volare]

http://www.memegeneokerlund.com/media/created/nifw2y.jpg

[loopydate]

Ambrose struck me as a Jake Roberts-type promo. I'd seen some of his indy stuff, but with no real context. Seeing him in a WWE setting, I was very impressed by the ease with which he was able to portray his character on the big stage. When you can get the word "Nope" over in your first promo, there's something special there.

I'd heard how bad Rollins was on the mic, but he was decent in this segment. Obviously, he's going to look weak sitting next to Ambrose, but he's better than several current WWE guys that get significant mic time.

I LOVED Reigns' part of the promo. He was given a cliche line, but he didn't give a cliche delivery. He's a man of few words, and when you've got his size, why not let your actions speak for themselves?

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Just watched it now.

Ambrose was indeed good on the mic. He has that grungey, nonchalant "I don't really care" kind of attitude, and without meaning to bring up NWO comparisons, he sort of reminded me of Scott Hall in that way.

Rollins didn't seem as bad as people have made out, but others have seen more promo work from him in the past so they probably know more about that than I do. His mannerisms did seem a little forced at times though and you could see that he wasn't as natural as Ambrose at it with all his pauses and the old "you see Michael..." routine.

Reigns definitely has the look, and his limited mic work was at least a lot better and more intimidating than some other big men we've seen over the years (Ezekial Jackson, Bobby Lashley). There's definitely potential for all three.

[Volare]

Here's a quick info vid on Dean Ambrose....like the majority have said, the best is yet to come.


<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/c4FkP822POU?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Not really sure how seriously I'd take Dean Ambrose if he were a singles wrestler mind you. He doesn't look intimidating at all.

[Emperor Smeat]

Not too fond of the name but the group has a lot of potential.

Barely seen anything of Ambrose past work but heard a lot of good stuff about him especially him being able to pull off Pillman's "Loose Cannon" type gimmick. The interview already shows he's going to be the best talker of the group.

Rollins has been great on NXT and his best stuff is usually in-ring work. Not as a great as Ambrose with promos but he's unique enough to not be overshadowed in the group.

Reigns works out well as the muscle of the group and its shown with the powerbombs and the spear done to Ryback. The interview was good at showing he's more of an ass kicker than talker.

[Vastardikai]

Ambrose struck me as a Jake Roberts-type promo. I'd seen some of his indy stuff, but with no real context. Seeing him in a WWE setting, I was very impressed by the ease with which he was able to portray his character on the big stage. When you can get the word "Nope" over in your first promo, there's something special there.

I got that vibe with Ambrose, as well. That Roberts or Anderson style where they can garner your attention without screaming.

[Hanso Amore]

I was not. I think all three could be great, just nothing interesting to me about this angle other than "NEW GUYS ATTACKING RYBACK".

[Mr. Nerfect]

I am loving The Shield so far. Ambrose is just a cool cat, and there's that "loose cannon" vibe about him that makes him seem more dangerous than he looks. People talk about how Rollins is a terrible talker, but has anyone actually listened to a promo from the guy? He's not the best ever, but he's nowhere near terrible. Reigns seems to be doing a "silent ass-kicker" thing, and that might work for him. The dude is clearly charismatic and that's something you can't teach. Get behind that and let it become more evident as the group goes on.

The plan for the WWE Title picture would seem to indicate that Punk will beat Ryback and then move onto The Rock at the Royal Rumble. It'd be interesting to see how Roman Reigns will play into that, given that he and The Rock are family. I could see a storyline where Reigns decides to "sit this one out" and lets Ambrose and Rollins do what they have to do against The Rock at the Rumble. They beat down The Rock as it looks like he is about to win the WWE Title when Reigns marches down from the back as Ambrose & Rollins look confused. You then have two options:

A) Reigns helps The Shield beat-down The Rock and CM Punk retain the WWE Title. Reigns informs the WWE Universe that this mission is even more important than his family, and The Shield will right the injustices of the WWE, etc. This leads to The Rock teaming up with Ryback against Ambrose, Rollins & Reigns at WrestleMania for some revenge against the family member that betrayed him and the group that has been causing Ryback and himself so much grief.

B) Reigns helps The Rock out, turns face, and The Shield go after their former member, and perhaps add another member of the NXT roster to their ranks (Kassius Ohno?). Reigns then teams with The Rock and Ryback at WrestleMania to face The Shield.

The aim of this group seems to be to create new stars, so what bigger way to make them by having them rub shoulders with The Great One?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Keep in mind that The Rock coming back whenever he wants and leaving for Hollywood could be considered a major injustice by The Shield.

[XL]

Someone imbed the segment in this thread. Please?

[teamXtremist]

huge john moxley guy!! reigns is green as shit but has the look and black is a good young wrestler, nuff said

[James Steele]

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[#1-norm-fan]

I like Ambrose. He seems like he's got loads of potential. Reigns seems like he can be a fine "big man" and Rollins is a tiny little fuck that I feel like people overrate.

I wish Bray Wyatt hadn't gotten injured and he could have brought Ambrose into his little stable along with Brodie Lee and the three of them could have done this instead. Would have been amazing since Bray Wyatt is the best thing to happen to wrestling since Johnny Curtis fandangoed his way out of his mum's cunt.

[Jordan]

I think it's reminiscent of a lot of invasion's so far... though I think the potential for creativity is there. Dean is great, he is of the same breed as CM Punk, everyone wants to compare him to Pillman and I see that, but his contemporary is Punk and they will wrestle for the title eventually.

I've watched Rollins live several times in ROH, he's fantastic. He's not as strong as Ambrose but that's okay, he's good enough. He will probably turn face against Ambrose at some point.

Reigns physically reminds me of Diesel, or a character that should be in The Expendables. So, he's awesome.

[James Steele]

We need to stop with this avatar swap because I about shit my pants thinking Kane Knight made an actual contribution to a discussion.

[Tazz Dan]

I agree with most people here. I think Rollins was ok and I'm sure they'll work on his mic skills. Ambrose has $$$ written all over him though. Looking forward to see where it all leads.

[Jordan]

We need to stop with this avatar swap because I about shit my pants thinking Kane Knight made an actual contribution to a discussion.

I was literally about to send him a message haha

[Tom Guycott]

I like Ambrose. He seems like he's got loads of potential. Reigns seems like he can be a fine "big man" and Rollins is a tiny little fuck that I feel like people overrate.


Some people attribute too much to size in any stretch.

Reigns, truthfully, is not much "bigger" than the other two. He just looks more massive, especially with the only wearing the flak jacket with no shirt underneath like the other two. Seth is "bigger" than Dean... so how is he "tiny"? If anything, Ambrose falls into that category where he should never draw a fucking dime, because he's a relatively small guy, much like CM Punk or Bryan Danielson... uh, wait...

Even with all that, they're doing it right at least for the time being. It takes the three of them to kick Ryback's ass. Ryback is still a monster, and can put up a fight, but in the end, he's still Andy fighting The Sisters.

The only problem I can see so far with Seth is that he's going to get lost in the shuffle, so to speak. We know Ambrose is going to carry the trio in talking, and that Reigns is the muscle... Rollins is just "the other guy" who, at this point, could've been anyone. If Rollins were the leader, and Mox were just the hot-headed "loose cannon" or something, it would have been better for him. Seth needs some kind of hook to him. Moshing around as an unarmed guard is just stupid.

[#1-norm-fan]

Seth Rollins is not bigger than Dean Ambrose.

[James Steele]

Yeah. Rollins is taller I think, but he is definitely "lanky" compared to Ambrose.

[#1-norm-fan]

Ambrose is a few inches taller too.

[Kalyx triaD]

There's this look to the leader's face that says all kinds of evil, maniacal, intelligent, and unhinged. A great villain face. I like this group so far and I fucking love their black ops gear. No title runs or anything; just keep them as this random force that can strike at anyone anytime. The fact that they work for no one (not fans not other bigger heels) makes them actually scary.

[Skippord]

why is Ambrose the only one who wears gloves?

[#1-norm-fan]

I don't know. Seems like a "leader-y" thing to do.

[XL]

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Not available in my country, you racist!!!!!

[James Steele]

why is Ambrose the only one who wears gloves?

Sweaty hands. Mad embarrassing.

[Tom Guycott]

Be it if I'm on the right or wrong size of the debate, you guys make it sound as if the comparison between Seth and Dean is like the disparity between Zach Gowen and Big Show. Even Reigns isn't exactly towering a foot and a half above the other two or anything.

Seriously, who cares about a couple inches?


... besides WWE I mean. I meant here. I know WWE cares, seeing as how the "boring"* half of the Kings of Wrestling is getting a stellar singles push on the main roster, while Chris Hero is "languishing" on NXT as a grizzlebearded hipster with a weird name who has a hard-on for hurting Steamboat's kid.

There isn't anything spectacularly abysmal about Seth Rollins, even though some of you are making him out to be some nobody loser who will never amount to anything. He shouldn't be main-eventing anything besides NXT right now (he's still the champ, right?), but he shouldn't be cast down simply because he can't quite emote on the mic on the level of Ambrose. Hell, there are people who have been in WWE for years who aren't that good, and that's just going from the promo in question, not any of his indy gold, or his feud with Foley, or even his feud with Regal.

Rollins is no vanilla midget. He just needs a bit of polish and his time to shine. However, right now ain't it.


*I mean "boring" as in people shitting all over his promo skills in these forums... but he is tall and has abs, so it's acceptable!

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Pretty glad Rollins won't be doing any of that horrible moshing while he's in The Shield though. If he starts it once they break up I'll probably instantly think he's terrible.

[Gertner]

Yeah. Rollins is taller I think, but he is definitely "lanky" compared to Ambrose.

They are all vanilla midgets. Typical indie garbage.

[blake639raw]

They are all vanilla midgets. Typical indie garbage. You do understand that every wrestler starts somewhere. Do you think that guys like Stone Cold and HHH just started in the WWE?

[Vastardikai]

He like Brodie Lee, I don't have the heart to tell him, though...

[#1-norm-fan]

Ambrose is the only one worth investing in.

They are all vanilla midgets. Typical indie garbage.

Wait a second...

[Shadrick]

AlGerto, you have some 'splainin to dooooo

[Vastardikai]

... besides WWE I mean. I meant here. I know WWE cares, seeing as how the "boring"* half of the Kings of Wrestling is getting a stellar singles push on the main roster, while Chris Hero is "languishing" on NXT as a grizzlebearded hipster with a weird name who has a hard-on for hurting Steamboat's kid.

*I mean "boring" as in people shitting all over his promo skills in these forums... but he is tall and has abs, so it's acceptable!

I think he is getting a stellar singles push because he has this unusual ability to pull a good to great match out of anyone, from Brodus Clay to Tyson Kidd. And while he may be an Indy guy, he doesn't "look" like an Indy guy. Luke Harper is going to have the same thing going for him when he gets called up.

Hero, on the other hand, kind of looks like a tall version of an Indy guy.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Kassius Ohno will be tremendous when he is called up. The dude can make anyone he is in the ring with look good, just like Cesaro.

[Skippord]

can't wait till Hero is up, still don't like saying Kassius Ohno though

[Pintint]

can't wait till Hero is up, still don't like saying Kassius Ohno though

Ohno can be a good gimmick if it's pronounced "Oh No!".

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Opening to his music could be

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UKv5-oTzLoY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Corporate CockSnogger]

DAMN iNATOR can piss right off if he's going to post a family guy clip.

[Gertner]

Kassius Ohno will be tremendous when he is called up. The dude can make anyone he is in the ring with look good, just like Cesaro.

Ohno is 10x worse than any of The Shield members. He's too skinny, his gimmick sucks and he's boring on the mic.

[Gertner]

You do understand that every wrestler starts somewhere. Do you think that guys like Stone Cold and HHH just started in the WWE?

HHH was a rich guy who came right into the WWE, and Stone Cold was brought in by the Million Dollar Man. No indie wrestling at all.

[Shisen Kopf]

The Shield should call themselves generic heel stable, it's a more fitting name. WWE writers suck ass. TV pg sucks. Not serious business and the workrate is shit. Ahhhhhh! RYBACK is good though.

[blake639raw]

http://wrestling-match.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/126582.jpg

[James Steele]

Triple H and Stone Cold both had time in WCW before coming to WWE. Austin had a really good run in WCW that got cut short due to injury and politics.

[#1-norm-fan]

Ohno is 10x worse than any of The Shield members. He's too skinny, his gimmick sucks and he's boring on the mic.

I actually like the fact that he has a gimmick. He's a prime example of why WWE needs a cruiserweight division though. Guys like him and Rollins need their own division where they can do what they do best and "reach the top" without actually having the same expectations as a guy like Cena.

Vince clearly is still all about size but over the years he's started to try to cater to the IWC a little by giving small guys title runs. And even while having two main titles so you can fuck around with one and not take it seriously, it's still generally ridiculous. It seems like he should be all over bringing back a division to please the IWC while still keeping his main event scene realistic.

[James Steele]

Why would Vince do anything specifically for the IWC? None of us buy anything but WrestleMania or the Royal Rumble.

[#1-norm-fan]

Well there was some demographic he was trying to appease by putting the title on Daniel Bryan when he did. I know old Vince would have fired his entire writing staff if the notion of someone like that winning the title came up.

[#1-norm-fan]

Also, "we" buy merchandise and DVDs and stuff that cater to our smarkish/vanilla midget loving needs.

[Gertner]

Also, "our moms buy merchandise and DVDs and stuff that cater to our smarkish/vanilla midget loving needs.

[James Steele]

Do you seriously think Daniel Bryan wasn't over when they put the belt on him? Certainly not as over as he is now, but it wasn't just a "Man, I bet those internet geeks will love this!" decision. WWE knows what they have in Daniel Bryan. Since the end of the 80s boom, WWE has shown it will put the belt on guys who they feel is the "best wrestler" as long as they are over and have enough charisma to market them. See: Michaels, Hart, Angle, Lesnar, Eddie, Benoit, Punk, Jericho, and even Bob Backlund. Especially with 2 world titles, they can cover both bases.

[#1-norm-fan]

They've actually done it since they started having two world titles. Benoit as champion should have never happened.

[#1-norm-fan]

And Santino was over when he was fighting for the title at Elimination Chamber. That doesn't mean they should have put the World Heavyweight Championship around his waist.

[#1-norm-fan]

And I fucking love Santino.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

That's wrong! Where is the Shield to right that injustice for XL?

I love how Dean Ambrose was called bullshit on Cole saying "some people" in his questions. Hate when journalists use that term. Some people? Who?

[Gertner]

They've actually done it since they started having two world titles. Benoit as champion should have never happened.

100% agree been saying this forever. Benoit was never over enough to be champ. He'd get a big response when his music hit, the crowd would then go completely dead until he hit his triple germans and crossface.

He never should have been anything more than U.S Champ

[#1-norm-fan]

It was a nice "story" to him winning the title. The dude had zero charisma and wasn't likable past being the underdog. That's great for getting a lucky title win. Then what? He never was and never would have come remotely close to being "the guy" in the company. I think the champion should be a guy you can be proud to throw out to the media and promote as "This is us" and Benoit never had it. Neither did Bryan. Bryan is fucking perfect where he is.

Two world titles has kinda put them in a position where they can "try" a lot of stuff and throw the title on guys who don't work to see if something sticks. All it does is make winning the title meaningless. Benoit did it. Punk did it with his first reign. Bryan did it.

[Gertner]

Bryan is perfect in a upper mid card role, but if he's your WWE/World Champion, then that's a problem.

This isn't trolling, but Bret Hart was champion because basically they had nobody else. HUGLY popular outside of the U.S, but the U.S is your prime market.

Punk hasn't exactly lit the world on fire as champ and neither did Eddie or Jericho.

Lesnar, Angle and HBK are the only 3 in that list who I would consider viable World Champions.

[#1-norm-fan]

I have no idea why Lesnar is in the discussion...

[#1-norm-fan]

In no way, shape or form would Lesnar be a "vanilla midget".

[Gertner]

Lesnar is pretty much the exact opposite of a midget.

[James Steele]

He wouldn't have gotten the push he got if he wasn't so damn good in the ring. Otherwise, he would have been like every other hoss. My whole point was that WWE has a history of pushing people either faster or moreso than they normally would if they are undoubtedly a great wrestler.

[#1-norm-fan]

Yes. I agree.

[#1-norm-fan]

I don't think anyone argued with that. The Great Khali had a great look. Looked intimidating as fuck. Great heel in that way. I think putting the title on him was a shit idea too though.

If you don't have a good look and aren't marketable though/look like you'd fit in better as a referee than a WWE champion, all the technical wrestling skill in the world doesn't really mean much.

[James Steele]

As much as Vince McMahon loves hosses and things, I think he still has an innate love and passion for great wrestling. Maybe not in the same sense we see it (ie. cruisers), but he loves seeing two guys put on a classic physical story.

I disagree with Benoit and Daniel Bryan. History will not be kind to Benoit, but he was over and deserved to be World Champion when he won it. Daniel Bryan did get the belt too early, but he grew into it and his descent into heeldom was masterful and beautiful. Daniel Bryan is as over as anybody in the WWE and can easily be a marketable WWE Champion. I think he will make his biggest impact and meaningful reigns as a heel and/or tweener. He has limited appeal as a cleancut babyface.

[#1-norm-fan]

Could you really buy WWE selling Daniel Bryan headlining WrestleMania?

[James Steele]

Yes.

Mark my words, CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan will headline WrestleMania at least once in the next few years. In the modern age, there isn't just 1 main event. There are usually 3 or even 4 maquee matches that could headline the show and each one appeals to a large section of the audience.

[Gertner]

Your World Champions should be guys with crossover appeal. Benoit and Bryan have 0 of that.

[#1-norm-fan]

The reason he's great right now is that no one is asking you to buy that he's on the same level as a John Cena. He's being put to good use in the mid-card as a comedy character who can put on a show in the ring. And they should keep it that way.

[#1-norm-fan]

Yes.

Mark my words, CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan will headline WrestleMania at least once in the next few years. In the modern age, there isn't just 1 main event. There are usually 3 or even 4 maquee matches that could headline the show and each one appeals to a large section of the audience.

I didn't say main event. I said headline. As in close out the show.

There aren't usually 3 or 4 marquee matches that could close out the show. Last year they called Sheamus vs Bryan and Punk vs Jericho "main events". It's a cheap way of saying "Hey, this guy was in the main event of WrestleMania". Rock vs Cena was the main event and there was no way anything else was going to come close to ousting it.

[#1-norm-fan]

Your World Champions should be guys with crossover appeal. Benoit and Bryan have 0 of that.

[James Steele]

World Champions don't have to be your "top marketable star" anymore. The money is made when your marquee top star is chasing the belt. They have 2 world titles and can take risks with guys who will deliver great matches and can connect with the crowd.

Benoit had crossover appeal. A lot of people identified with a guy who was intense and just went to work and kicked ass.

Daniel Bryan has huge crossover appeal to sections of the WWE audience that have never been catered to. Daniel Bryan has done more media appearances for groups like PETA and other PR groups that have never associated with WWE.

[James Steele]

I didn't say main event. I said headline. As in close out the show.

There aren't usually 3 or 4 marquee matches that could close out the show. Last year they called Sheamus vs Bryan and Punk vs Jericho "main events". It's a cheap way of saying "Hey, this guy was in the main event of WrestleMania". Rock vs Cena was the main event and there was no way anything else was going to come close to ousting it.

WrestleMania 27: Cena/Miz, Taker/HHH, Edge/Del Rio
WrestleMania 26: Cena/Batista, HBK/Taker, Jericho/Edge, McMahon/Hart
WrestleMania 25: HBK/Taker, HHH/Orton, Cena/Edge/Big Show
WrestleMana 24: HBK/Flair, HHH/Orton/Cena, Edge/Taker
WrestleMania 23: HBK/Cena, Batista/Undertaker

You pick 1 WM in which they booked the main event a year in advance with the return of one of the most popular stars of all time. The past 5-6 years, they have had WMs with multiple matches that could have gone on last.

[#1-norm-fan]

World Champions don't have to be your "top marketable star" anymore.

And this is why the titles mean significantly less and don't draw on their own like they used to. Holding it doesn't mean you're worth jack shit. It means they're trying something out to see what sticks.

[#1-norm-fan]

And Benoit had no crossover appeal. That's insane. lol

[James Steele]

And this is why the titles mean significantly less and don't draw on their own like they used to. Holding it doesn't mean you're worth jack shit. It means they're trying something out to see what sticks.

Is it not smart business to make it where your top draw doesn't have to be in the middle of the title hunt and you can use those titles to build up new stars? I'd argue the titles mean more now than they have in ages in spite of them not necessarily being the true "main event".

[#1-norm-fan]

WrestleMania 27: Cena/Miz, Taker/HHH, Edge/Del Rio
WrestleMania 26: Cena/Batista, HBK/Taker, Jericho/Edge, McMahon/Hart
WrestleMania 25: HBK/Taker, HHH/Orton, Cena/Edge/Big Show
WrestleMana 24: HBK/Flair, HHH/Orton/Cena, Edge/Taker
WrestleMania 23: HBK/Cena, Batista/Undertaker

You pick 1 WM in which they booked the main event a year in advance with the return of one of the most popular stars of all time. The past 5-6 years, they have had WMs with multiple matches that could have gone on last.

Some of those had multiple matches that could go on last. In those cases, calling multiple matches the main event is justified. There was NO WAY some of those matches were gonna go on last though and thus calling them a "main event" when they're so clearly below the REAL main event/s is stupid.

Edge vs Del Rio? lol Did you really go into that WrestleMania thinking there was a genuine chance the show would close out with Edge vs Del Rio for Smackdown's WHC???

[James Steele]

Some of those had multiple matches that could go on last. In those cases, calling multiple matches the main event is justified. There was NO WAY some of those matches were gonna go on last though and thus calling them a "main event" when they're so clearly below the REAL main event/s is stupid.

Edge vs Del Rio? lol Did you really go into that WrestleMania thinking there was a genuine chance the show would close out with Edge vs Del Rio for Smackdown's WHC???

Did you think Edge/Taker would go on last over HHH/Orton/Cena or HBK/Flair? Did you think HBK/Taker would go on last over Cena/Batista?

[#1-norm-fan]

Is it not smart business to make it where your top draw doesn't have to be in the middle of the title hunt and you can use those titles to build up new stars?

Yes. Because it brings the title down to their level, it doesn't bring them up because they hold a title that's been tossed around to random guys to "see what sticks". Do you think when Hogan was the top draw, the title would have meant as much if Paul Orndorff and Lanny Poffo were holding it?

When Austin was the top draw, do you think the title would have lost it's value if Goldust and The British Bulldog were trading off the title back and forth on PPV while Austin was doing more important stuff higher up on the card?

[#1-norm-fan]

Did you think Edge/Taker would go on last over HHH/Orton/Cena or HBK/Flair? Did you think HBK/Taker would go on last over Cena/Batista?

Yeah

Some of those had multiple matches that could go on last. In those cases, calling multiple matches the main event is justified.

[James Steele]

The business is different now. Championships are important, but they don't alone determine who is "most over" or "most popular". CM Punk took almost a year before he was main eventing PPVs. Are Sheamus and CM Punk not over? Is Big Show not over as a heel right now?

[#1-norm-fan]

Edge/Del Rio was not a main event by any standard other than "Hey, let's call it a main event so we can say 'these guys main evented WrestleMania'"

[James Steele]

It was a World title match that headlined SmackDown! It was the highest profile SmackDown! match, but only the 3rd match on the show. It was still a main event. You can nitpick all you want, but the business has evolved and WrestleMania is nothing like a traditional wrestling show anymore.

[#1-norm-fan]

So was Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus. How seriously did they take that as a "WrestleMania main event"?

[James Steele]

They hyped the fuck out of it and it was the high-profile match for SmackDown! They then did a "shocking" or "WrestleMania moment" with the match. While it sucked for people wanting to see a great match, it was still one of the main events of that WrestleMania.

[James Steele]

WrestleMania is such a special show and WWE has learned to pace the shows and book it to where not all the big matches go on back-to-back-to-back at the end to where the crowd is fucking dead by the 2nd "marquee match".

[#1-norm-fan]

They hyped the fuck out of Team Teddy vs Team Johnny. Was that just not considered a main event because there was no title on the line? If so, I'll go back to what you said. The business has changed. The titles are not viewed as the most important thing anymore. You just said Punk took almost a year before he was main eventing. That's because he was holding a title that was not deemed important enough to headline shows.

But you could go ahead and throw that trivial "main event" label on the match and suddenly, bam! He's main evented every PPV since winning the title.

[James Steele]

They hyped the fuck out of Team Teddy vs Team Johnny. Was that just not considered a main event because there was no title on the line? If so, I'll go back to what you said. The business has changed. The titles are not viewed as the most important thing anymore. You just said Punk took almost a year before he was main eventing. That's because he was holding a title that was not deemed important enough to headline shows.

But you could go ahead and throw that trivial "main event" label on the match and suddenly, bam! He's main evented every PPV since winning the title.

He has been in high profile matches on the cards. It just so happened that WWE has been lucky enough to have a lot of their "last match of the night" not involve the championship. Just because the title match isn't the last match doesn't mean it isn't an important or "main event" match. That is my point. Can't be that hard of a fucking concept. Why is it a bad thing that the hottest storyline is a non-title storyline, and the title storylines are still hot but not as hot as the other?

[#1-norm-fan]

WrestleMania is such a special show and WWE has learned to pace the shows and book it to where not all the big matches go on back-to-back-to-back at the end to where the crowd is fucking dead by the 2nd "marquee match".

I don't care what order the matches go in. I'm not arguing "Because this match was the first of the night..." Pacing as far as the placement of matches on the card is important. I'm arguing that if a match isn't remotely on the same level as other matches, while it's a "main event" by WWE standards and I'd agree to that, you can't use "it was a main event" as a way to make a point because the label is trivial now.

If your only point was Punk vs Bryan will main event WrestleMania in te next few years by WWE's standards then... yeah. They very likely could. And I'd say WWE will likely be damn sure they have a match featuring Cena or Lesnar or Rock or someone else to CLOSE OUT the show because Punk vs Bryan wouldn't be big enough to do it.

[James Steele]

I beg to differ. CM Punk and Daniel Bryan will CLOSE OUT WrestleMania in the coming years. They are both over and every time they have a match they steal the show and have the crowd eating out of their hands without much effort.

[#1-norm-fan]

He has been in high profile matches on the cards. It just so happened that WWE has been lucky enough to have a lot of their "last match of the night" not involve the championship. Just because the title match isn't the last match doesn't mean it isn't an important or "main event" match. That is my point. Can't be that hard of a fucking concept. Why is it a bad thing that the hottest storyline is a non-title storyline, and the title storylines are still hot but not as hot as the other?

That's fine. Just don't try to use the term "main event" to make it sound like they're automatically on the same level. Like my example above with Hogan and Austin. The title would have never been nearly as big if some guys who were below them on the midcard were fighting for the title while they were working the real main event and being the focus of the company. And regardless of what WWE decided to put the "main event" level on, that would still be the case.

[#1-norm-fan]

I think WWE is lucky to have Rock back and to a lesser extent Lesnar because they can't put together a legit, "WrestleMania" feeling WrestleMania with the full time guys they have (Outside Cena and even then, he needs someone to face) and tossing titles on guys isn't a way to make stars. The holder makes the title. The title doesn't make the holder. Hell, Triple H said it himself in the Punk DVD. Are you calling TRIPLE H wrong???

[James Steele]

You can use championship feuds to push a guy over the top once they are on the cusp. Like with Dolph Ziggler, he is over and everything. He just needs that championship feud and win to solidify him as a long term main eventer. Not a crazy idea. The only difference is WWE doesn't have to force it early or anything because they have enough stars to do it slowly and have other attractions besides the title match.

[#1-norm-fan]

I think your standards for "on the cusp" are low.

Your World Champions should be guys with crossover appeal.

[#1-norm-fan]

I actually think Ziggler does have crossover appeal especially for a heel and would make the company look good if he were champion so it's not that example I'm remarking on.

I'm just saying in general. Like Bryan. And Benoit. Good God, Benoit.

[James Steele]

I don't know how you can seriously say Benoit and Bryan don't have any crossover appeal.

[#1-norm-fan]

Chris... Benoit...

The guy had less charisma than seems humanly possible, he didn't have a good look... Like I said, it's bizarre to me that you actually think you could have put Benoit out there doing interviews and making appearances everywhere as the face of your company and it would make the company look like a fun form of entertainment.

[#1-norm-fan]

It's not even just a look thing. Mick Foley. The guy's ridiculously likeable. You put him out in the public, flaunt him around on mainstream TV, have him go on SNL and make people think what he is the kinda guy that represents what your company is about, you come off looking great.

Put Benoit in that situation in your mind now and tell me you aren't cringing. Anyone who sees it is automatically saying "lol wrestling :roll:".

[James Steele]

Mic skills and charisma are not interchangeable. Benoit had a charisma and aura about him. He was fucking jacked looked like a fucking beast.

If you are dumb enough to say Benoit had no charisma and didn't have a good look, then there is no hope for you to actually understand and discuss wrestling. Was Benoit an actor or comedian? No, but he was one of the best wrestlers of all time and had a unique and mesmerizing intensity and fluidity in his wrestling.

[#1-norm-fan]

lol, I can't believe this is actually a discussion. I seriously think you're just fucking with me right now and I'm just doing a bad job of picking up on it...

[#1-norm-fan]

Was Benoit an actor or comedian? No, but he was one of the best wrestlers of all time and had a unique and mesmerizing intensity and fluidity in his wrestling.

What the fuck does that have to do with crossover appeal? lol

[#1-norm-fan]

Was Benoit an actor or comedian? No, but he was one of the best wrestlers of all time and had a unique and mesmerizing intensity and fluidity in his wrestling.

What the fuck does that have to do with crossover appeal...

[James Steele]

What the fuck does that have to do with crossover appeal...

He was the best wrestler in the world, he was blue collar, he just showed up and busted his ass to do his job as best he could. What section of the wrestling audience could that possibly connect to?

[#1-norm-fan]

Oddly, you've acknowledged that the business has changed recently but you seem to still think that simply being able to put on great technical wrestling matches is enough. It hasn't been that way for about 20+ years now. Sports entertainment. It requires you to actually be... ya know... entertaining. And that means outside of just what you do in the ring. You have to be engaging.

Benoit had a shit personality in the big picture. You seem to have an undying boner for him that a lot of hardcore wrestling fans share. Understood. But don't blindly try to reason that he had any crossover appeal and he'd make the company look good to anyone who wasn't all about "the art".

[#1-norm-fan]

Daniel Bryan would have at least been something to discuss. Bryan is likeable and seems to have a great sense of humor and personality that he's shown recently. Still not really a "face of the company" type but I could see how it could be debated.

Benoit though. Just... just... wow... The man had NO appeal outside of a wrestling ring whatsoever. This is insane. lol

[Autobahn]

Going into this thread highly critical that these were just the new "indie sensations", I was surprisingly impressed. Ambrose is great and looking forward to more from him. Plus the Bossman SWAT gear outfits made me like them even more.

Replace Reigns with Kurrgan and you have a winning team.

[whiteyford]

Benoit though. Just... just... wow... The man had NO appeal outside of a wrestling ring whatsoever. This is insane. lol

Dunno, he's been on a few different shows over the last few years outside of wrestling.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

I'm fully with #1-wwf-fan on that. Benoit had zero personality, no chance he had any crossover appeal. It took his best friend to die for him to show even an ounce of personality and that was his real persona coming out because of that tragedy.

No chance he could go out and promote anything for the WWE and show any personality when he couldn't even do it in front of their own cameras.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Unless he spoke about killing families and stuff, I guess. He probably felt pretty passionate about that.

[whiteyford]

I always thought Benoit was alright on the mic.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

You're probably a lunatic.

[whiteyford]

GIVE ME YOUR ADDRESS!!!!!!

[whiteyford]

Nah, I thought he was alright at the straight serious type promos, wouldn't expect to go out an ad lib for 20mins or anything but go out and seem threatening for a few mins he was pretty convincing at.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

I think it's this avatar. Every post I make as of late is offensive.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I don't know how you guys can sit there and say Benoit had no crossover appeal when the guy received more national media attention than anyone in wrestling history...

READ THE PAPERS

[whiteyford]

I made that joke already dammit!