Guys, I miss The Hardys

[KyleEmmott]

This probably isn't threadworthy but I've been watching a lot of Youtube videos of Jeff & Matt Hardy matches and I miss them in the WWE. I know there's a handful of posters on here that don't like them. I certainly hope they come back to the WWE, and if you ask me it's only a matter of time. Especially TNA being the sinking ship it is, I expect Jeff in the WWE soon.


Thoughts?

[Nark Order]

Jeff is a liability and shouldn't be hired anywhere, to be honest. It was a mistake on TNA's part to give him yet another chance, to be honest.

[The Condor]

Their time has come and gone. It's time to move on.

[CSL]

Jeff is a liability and shouldn't be hired anywhere, to be honest. It was a mistake on TNA's part to give him yet another chance, to be honest.

you are smarter than this Narcissisisisisisus

[CSL]

feel like you probably are smarter than this Narcissisisisisus and are playing a dastardly mind game with the wrestling forum

[Nark Order]

I get that he's a draw but he's definitely proven that he can't be trusted with a major load. He's part of the reason why everybody does the "lol TNA" thing as much as they do. They had to cancel the main event of a PPV because he's a junky. Personally, it's not a guy I would be thrilled to do business with. I "get it" but it's definitely not something I would do. If it was one incident I wouldn't be so apprehensive but he's missed flights, missed shows, shown up fucked up, and ruined high profile shows/angles.

Personally Id rather just deal with guys that I know are going to perform and guys that I know aren't going to be a liability. I understand why they still do business with him, I just can't help but think they'll probably regret it again at some point.

[Nark Order]

To be honest.

[Nark Order]

Or not to be honest.

[Hanso Amore]

I stopped liking the Hardys around 2003 when Jeff started going off the deep end with paint and shit.

Loved me some Team Extreme

[Heisenberg]

I will never forget their awesome matches back then, especially ones involving tables, ladders and chairs.

[Lock Jaw]

Really can't fathom how TNA can ever put any sort of trust in Jeff Hardy again after that PPV with Sting incident.

I can certainly see them doing business together again, but they should keep him strictly mid-card.

[Nark Order]

Matt was always the better Hardy to me. You know, before he lost his fucking mind.

[Lock Jaw]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/WC6iLl26vpg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[XL]

I'd like to see The Hardys as a tag team in WWE again. That's about it. They could be really useful to boost interest in the division. They'd be the what the Legion of Doom were in 98. Mind you, could do the same thing with the New Age Outlaws and they're already under contract.

[Skippord]

The Hardy's can still wrestle though, feel like Road Dogg is half a match away from a heart attack

Then again I haven't seen Matt recently.

[Shisen Kopf]

Party hardy, bro

[Nark Order]

Matt is in ROH right now putting on some quality matches. They should just never give him the microphone. And they should probably shut off his Internet and his phone.

[Fignuts]

I dunno his recent YouTube vids have been pretty entertaining.

[BigCrippyZ]

I'd like to see The Hardys as a tag team in WWE again. That's about it. They could be really useful to boost interest in the division. They'd be the what the Legion of Doom were in 98. Mind you, could do the same thing with the New Age Outlaws and they're already under contract.

So could the Dudley's or Edge and Christian if Edge could still wrestle. Any of those four teams could help revive the tag division.

[XL]

Apart from Edge not being able to wrestle, of course.

[James Steele]

So could the Dudley's or Edge and Christian if Edge could still wrestle. Any of those four teams could help revive the tag division.

Apart from Edge not being able to wrestle, of course.

He mentioned that, dickhead.

[Anybody Thrilla]

But why would he mention it if it couldn't happen? At least I think that was XL's point.

I wouldn't be opposed to a Vitamin C reunion, though.

[KyleEmmott]

I honestly think they're both the risk, they both put on quality matches still

[Nark Order]

Edge vs Matt Hardy really could've been one of the greatest feuds of all time, to be honest. It's still probably in my top 3 but that first match at Summerslam almost completely ruined the entire thing for me. To me, that first match should have been a brutal and bloody war ending in a no contest with both guys not being able to continue. It was pretty apparent that right out of the gate, WWE wanted To send a message to Hardy. Matt got a ton of heat for complaining on the Internet, not letting the issue go, and basically building a following against Edge. The WWE really didn't really have much of a choice but to hire Hardy back after his droves of fans continually hijacked the show and I don't think it set very well with them. That first Summerslam match really could've been one of the best matches in modern wrestling history but they really ruined it with their bitterness. Edge basically brutalized Matt and WWE weakened the feud right off the bat. They ended up having a fucking phenomenal program with each other afterwards but Ill always view that SS match as one of the biggest missed opportunities ever. IMO, it was the difference between Matt being a WHC contender for years to come and him being an upper mid carder like he turned out to be.

[Lock Jaw]

I wrote an essay back in uni that had something to do with wrestling and wrestling fandom, and I used the Matt Hardy/Edge feud as an example of fan reaction, and I cited sources and quotes from RIGHT HERE on TPWW.

[Nark Order]

The WWE seems to have absolutely no respect for things that they didn't help create. It doesn't matter if there's a dumpster full of cash to be made, if they didn't create it and if they can't completely control it, they don't want it to be the focal point of their shows. That's where the Edge/Hardy feud suffered, that's why Zack Ryder is currently suffering. It's a very childish mentality to have.

If they had booked that feud the way it should've been booked, we might be watching a Hardy/Edge rivalry DVD right now. That's how huge I think that angle could've been. It's a pretty frustrating thing to deal with as a fan of the WWE.

[KyleEmmott]

The WWE seems to have absolutely no respect for things that they didn't help create. It doesn't matter if there's a dumpster full of cash to be made, if they didn't create it and if they can't completely control it, they don't want it to be the focal point of their shows. That's where the Edge/Hardy feud suffered, that's why Zack Ryder is currently suffering. It's a very childish mentality to have.

If they had booked that feud the way it should've been booked, we might be watching a Hardy/Edge rivalry DVD right now. That's how huge I think that angle could've been. It's a pretty frustrating thing to deal with as a fan of the WWE.

[Juan]

Jeff's last run in WWE was pretty mint

[James Steele]

Matt's promo skills are what held him back which is odd because he was so good with the V1 gimmick. Zack Ryder got his opportunity and he blew it. He was in the middle of the ring with CM Punk and Daniel Bryan. He was given the mic and instead of sealing the deal he blew it. Where is Zack Ryder's massive fanbase now? It is gone because he found something that got him over for the short term, and he couldn't take it any farther when given the ball. He got a big U.S. Championship win and put all over TV. He couldn't hold is own and couldn't establish himself as anything other than a shallow gimmick.

[James Steele]

Jeff's last run in WWE was pretty mint

It was.

[James Steele]

I always wanted to see them relaunch the HHH/HBK feud after the initial DX reunion, but have HBK turn heel on HHH. HBK finally gets fed up of being treated like a joke and a goofy old man.

I also think HBK should have won the WWE Championship at WrestleMania 23.

[XL]

But why would he mention it if it couldn't happen? At least I think that was XL's point.

I wouldn't be opposed to a Vitamin C reunion, though.

Bingo.

[XL]

He mentioned that, dickhead.

*Whoosh*

[James Steele]

You're still a dickhead.

[James Steele]

They said Shawn Michaels would never wrestle again either, and look at what he did after a debilitating injury. Edge will get some robot spine in a few years and make an epic comeback.

[James Steele]

FYI: You are still a huge dickhead.

[Theo Dious]

Matt's promo skills are what held him back which is odd because he was so good with the V1 gimmick. Zack Ryder got his opportunity and he blew it. He was in the middle of the ring with CM Punk and Daniel Bryan. He was given the mic and instead of sealing the deal he blew it. Where is Zack Ryder's massive fanbase now? It is gone because he found something that got him over for the short term, and he couldn't take it any farther when given the ball. He got a big U.S. Championship win and put all over TV. He couldn't hold is own and couldn't establish himself as anything other than a shallow gimmick.

Exactly. I'm really sick of the whole "WWE only likes what they made" BS, and I have to again point out the mutually exclusive "Vince only cares about money" and "Vince only cares about ego" opinions. Matt Hardy should have come out of his feud with Edge shining like gold, but after the "you screwed Matt" air wore off, he had nothing further to give that interested anyone. Same thing with Ryder. The fans put him in a position to succeed on a massive level with his self-made gimmick, but he had nothing to follow it up with and people got bored.

I miss the Hardys too, but neither of those guys is a good idea to rely on in any way, shape, or form in the long-term. Jeff is far too interested in smoking up and far too easily distracted by shiny objects. His last WWE was gold, as was said, but that has a lot more to do with the fact that it was (deliberately) ended before he could do what he ended up doing in TNA. Matt is just too fucked up in the head and I honestly think he is way too bothered by the fact that Jeff gets so much more attention for being exciting and flashy than he gets for being the solid worker with better fundamentals. Part of me doesn't even feel like the V1 gimmick was a work. There is too much of an air of "I'm the best and wah wah wah nobody sees it" from him.

[Theo Dious]

They said Shawn Michaels would never wrestle again either, and look at what he did after a debilitating injury. Edge will get some robot spine in a few years and make an epic comeback.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3292/2791300520_6bdd7c151c.jpg

[Theo Dious]

In all seriousness, I wonder if Edge's injury hasn't been deliberately overblown so that he can make a huge surprise comeback someday. I don't believe this to be the case, but if he showed up one day in just that fashion my response would definitely be "I fucking knew it!"

[Nark Order]

Exactly. I'm really sick of the whole "WWE only likes what they made" BS, and I have to again point out the mutually exclusive "Vince only cares about money" and "Vince only cares about ego" opinions. Matt Hardy should have come out of his feud with Edge shining like gold, but after the "you screwed Matt" air wore off, he had nothing further to give that interested anyone. Same thing with Ryder. The fans put him in a position to succeed on a massive level with his self-made gimmick, but he had nothing to follow it up with and people got bored.

I miss the Hardys too, but neither of those guys is a good idea to rely on in any way, shape, or form in the long-term. Jeff is far too interested in smoking up and far too easily distracted by shiny objects. His last WWE was gold, as was said, but that has a lot more to do with the fact that it was (deliberately) ended before he could do what he ended up doing in TNA. Matt is just too fucked up in the head and I honestly think he is way too bothered by the fact that Jeff gets so much more attention for being exciting and flashy than he gets for being the solid worker with better fundamentals. Part of me doesn't even feel like the V1 gimmick was a work. There is too much of an air of "I'm the best and wah wah wah nobody sees it" from him.

They tried to squash that feud right off the bat before Edge or Hardy did much of anything. That Summerslam match was inexcusable and an example of WWE sour grapes. They wanted to let Matt Hardy know that they do things on their own terms with their own creative ideas, not on his terms with ideas that the WWE didn't create. That could have been such a money feud but money wasn't as important to them as teaching a lesson was.

[James Steele]

Is it just possible that Matt Hardy wasn't that good and not ready to be in that spot?

[James Steele]

Jeff vs Matt from WM25 sucked. The build wasn't bad, but the match sucked. Every time Matt WWE put him in a high profile borderline main event singles match/feud, he blew it.

FFS, remember the promo he cut when Vince hired him back?

[Nark Order]

This PWInsider article pretty much sums up most of my feelings on that Edhe/Hardy feud. Written in 2008. It even mentions the shoddy Hardy promo work. The promos shouldn't have been that big of a problem considering they know Hardy can cut promos. It could've been worked on fairly easily. The potential for this feud was fucking ridiculous and they ruined it.

AFTERNOON THOUGHTS: MATT HARDY VS. EDGE - WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN
By Mike Johnson on 2008-05-01 14:23:18
WWE'S HARDY DVD LEAVES ME WONDERING...WHAT IF?

I had the chance to watch the first DVD of WWE's Hardy Boyz - Twist of Fate set last night, which focuses on Matt Hardy. The 60 minute documentary look at Matt's career is, for the most part, another well balanced look at Hardy's WWE runs, with comments from Hardy, Shannon Moore, Gregory Helms, Michael Hayes, Jeff Hardy, Edge, Jim Ross, Ken Kennedy and others.

The DVD recounts The Hardy Boyz's career from Matt's point of view, then follows his journey as a solo act after the tag team splits. From the famous trampoline wrestling stories that make the Hardys the most successful backyard wrestlers of all time to promoting OMEGA to the typical wrestling carny stories of former NWA enhancement talent the Italian Stallion getting the Hardys booked as WWF jobbers for $150 a night, then taking $100 a night from them for the booking, to the tumultuous Matt-Lita-Edge storyline, it's a very good profile piece on Matt Hardy.

However, the chapter on the already well known and covered love triangle that saw Hardy lose his job with WWE while injured then return is perhaps the most intriguing piece of the Matt Hardy DVD.

Indeed, although Edge commented that the situation was a learning process for all involved and Hardy himself is mature enough to admit he was in a terrible place in his life by taking to the Internet to release his grievances - Dumas was not asked to take part in the DVD - what was left unsaid even as Edge noted that the company decided to take a negative personal life situation and turn it into a positive for the professional life of those involved was that World Wrestling Entertainment completely dropped the ball on the angle.

Indeed, anyone remember how hot Matt Hardy was when he returned at the Meadowlands in New Jersey, attacking Adam Copeland and saying the name "Ring of Honor" (where he was booked to work the following weekend) on the house mic, before being dragged off in handcuffs? How much tension there was in the air between Hardy and Edge? The back and forth promos? The crowd reaction at Summerslam that tore the roof off the place? The intensity as Edge and Hardy tore into each other at the onset of that bout?

No?

Well, that's because between the idea that Vince McMahon personally brought Hardy back into the company after he was an outsider attacking Edge, how Hardy fumbled his first live promo back to the point he was almost never given a chance to talk for some time after, and how one-sided the quick first Edge match was, all pretty much killed any momentum Hardy created for himself online and with the fans.

As hot as that issue was, as real and as personal as it could have been as a TV storyline, one of the lessons learned from watching the Hardy DVD is how quickly the momentum of an angle, no matter how perfectly handed to a company based on a real-life situation with real life emotions, no matter how deeply fans legitimately care about those performers involved, can quickly become muddied and stomped out with poor decisions. In this case, WWE took the golden goose and cooked it before it laid a single golden egg.

The booking of the Edge-Matt storyline will go down in the history books as one of the biggest missed opportunities in WWE history, one that was lost the second Edge and Hardy entered the ring at Summerslam. Instead of a bloody, hard-fought grudge match, instead it was a bout that was seemingly designed to knock Matt Hardy down from whatever babyface pedestal all the online and insider sympathy he had received (or as some felt at the time, engineered) and remind him that he was back to being a contracted WWE player and would play by their rules and the opportunities they give him, not the ones he made for himself.

Hardy noted on the DVD that Edge was the company's golden boy at the time. The reality is that Edge gained a lot of heel heat and a rub from the triangle scandal, but looking back, it's obvious that the company had the chance to create something that the NWA had in Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat, that WWF had in Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan and ECW had in Tommy Dreamer vs. Raven - a rivalry that could always refresh itself, with personalities that could always play off their history with the other and have great matches. They had a chance to create something that would make them money in the months and years to come - a rivalry for the ages, borne out of emotion and reality.

Instead, Edge became a star and Matt Hardy went to the mid-card.

Hardy would eventually return to form as a top star for Smackdown (hence his huge Wrestlemania XXIV pop when he attacked MVP), but it's still a far cry from what could have been for him under different set of booking circumstances. I am sure he's happy as the only thing he ever wanted in his life was to be a WWE star, but there's always going to be that "What If" question for me, especially after watching the DVD.

I have to wonder if that question rings in Matt Hardy's ears as well.

[Nark Order]

Jeff vs Matt from WM25 sucked. The build wasn't bad, but the match sucked. Every time Matt WWE put him in a high profile borderline main event singles match/feud, he blew it.

FFS, remember the promo he cut when Vince hired him back?

They didn't give that match very much time at all. Not even close to what they should've given it. They tried to put a ton of spots into a very short match. Even with what they had, I'll still always remember that spot that won the match. It's been seared into my head forever.

[Nark Order]

And James Steele, you can't be that much of a promo snob if Triple H is your favorite wrestler. Lets get real here.

[James Steele]

It's WWE's fault that Matt Hardy can't cut a promo to save his life and fight for match outcomes?

[James Steele]

And James Steele, you can't be that much of a promo snob if Triple H is your favorite wrestler. Lets get real here.

Triple H is a great promo guy. He can be long-winded, but he can cut a damn good promo as a babyface, heel, badass, goofball, rich snob, etc.

[James Steele]

They didn't give that match very much time at all. Not even close to what they should've given it. They tried to put a ton of spots into a very short match. Even with what they had, I'll still always remember that spot that won the match. It's been seared into my head forever.

Whose fault is it they tried to do nothing but spots? Matt and Jeff. It is Wrestle-fucking-Mania and you are wrestling your brother. They know how to put a good fucking match together regardless of time. It was a 13 minute match. They didn't need 30 minutes to tell a story. They decided to be cheap and just do a shitload of spots. It sucked balls. Show/Cena/Edge only got 14 minutes as well. No fucking excuse for 2 allegedly seasoned veterans to put on that shitfest. If it was Batista/Orton instead of Jeff/Matt you wouldn't be finding excuses for them. (All match times according to Wikipedia)

The MITB match that year only had 1 more minute of time than their match, and they were able to deliver a good spotfest. No reason Matt and Jeff the "high spot kings" couldn't deliver.

[Nark Order]

It's WWE's fault that Matt Hardy can't cut a promo to save his life and fight for match outcomes?

It is WWE's fault that they can't capitalize on huge opportunities that are served to them on a silver platter. You're making a much bigger deal of the promos than it needs to be. They were fine, they just weren't "knock it out of the park" amazing. That situation will probably never happen again in the history of wrestling. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity that could've bred hundreds of other creative ideas off of its back. The matches were fucking incredible, sans that abortion Summerslam match where they tried to bury Hardy right off the bat out of bitterness. The emotion involved was unreal and it really showed in every single one of those matches. How both guys didn't get catapulted into the main event after a feud like that is not only baffling, it is downright irresponsible. That feud could've been revisited for years to come whenever they needed a money match on a PPV. The WWE completely fucking blew it on this.

"The promos could've been better" is a really horrible reason to throw money into the garbage. And like I said, they really weren't all that bad. They weren't good, but they were serviceable given the circumstances. Do you think Paul Heyman or Jim Cornette would've set money on fire because of a mediocre promo? The answer is no and neither would any reasonable business person. Nobody paying attention at that time was like "omg, fucking promos," they were immersed in the "I can't believe this is fucking happening right now" aspect of it all.

[James Steele]

I agree they should have been given more time at SummerSlam, but the feud continued for months and they had brutal long matches. If having a short match can completely derail your career, then you were never going to make it to begin with.

[James Steele]

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x2abtw"></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2abtw_edge-vs-matt-hardy-summerslam-2005_sport" target="_blank">Edge vs Matt Hardy SummerSlam 2005</a> <i>by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/SmackDown54" target="_blank">SmackDown54</a></i>

[James Steele]

It is WWE's fault that they can't capitalize on huge opportunities that are served to them on a silver platter. You're making a much bigger deal of the promos than it needs to be. They were fine, they just weren't "knock it out of the park" amazing. That situation will probably never happen again in the history of wrestling. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity that could've bred hundreds of other creative ideas off of its back. The matches were fucking incredible, sans that abortion Summerslam match where they tried to bury Hardy right off the bat out of bitterness. The emotion involved was unreal and it really showed in every single one of those matches. How both guys didn't get catapulted into the main event after a feud like that is not only baffling, it is downright irresponsible. That feud could've been revisited for years to come whenever they needed a money match on a PPV. The WWE completely fucking blew it on this.

"The promos could've been better" is a really horrible reason to throw money into the garbage. And like I said, they really weren't all that bad. They weren't good, but they were serviceable given the circumstances. Do you think Paul Heyman or Jim Cornette would've set money on fire because of a mediocre promo? The answer is no and neither would any reasonable business person. Nobody paying attention at that time was like "omg, fucking promos," they were immersed in the "I can't believe this is fucking happening right now" aspect of it all.

It is really easy to explain why both didn't make it into the main event. Matt Hardy wasn'tt good enough to be a main eventer and Edge was. Promos do matter when a feud is based entirely off of emotion and hatred. Matt Hardy couldn't sustain his overness once the Jerry Springer heat wore off of Edge. Also, the SummerSlam match being short does at least makes sense since they were literally beating the shit out of each other and basically fighting. 2 guys trying to kill each other and going at the pace they were can't go on for 30 minutes.

[Nark Order]

Whose fault is it they tried to do nothing but spots? Matt and Jeff. It is Wrestle-fucking-Mania and you are wrestling your brother. They know how to put a good fucking match together regardless of time. It was a 13 minute match. They didn't need 30 minutes to tell a story. They decided to be cheap and just do a shitload of spots. It sucked balls. Show/Cena/Edge only got 14 minutes as well. No fucking excuse for 2 allegedly seasoned veterans to put on that shitfest. If it was Batista/Orton instead of Jeff/Matt you wouldn't be finding excuses for them. (All match times according to Wikipedia)

The MITB match that year only had 1 more minute of time than their match, and they were able to deliver a good spotfest. No reason Matt and Jeff the "high spot kings" couldn't deliver.

Allegedly they were supposed to have 6-7 more minutes and it was cut down minutes before the match started. And it wasn't a shitfest at all. You are completely exaggerating. And why would a match with tons of weapons with two guys that are known for crazy spots not include spots? You seem like you're being pretty biased right now. They had a lot of things planned and had to cut it down on the fly. Seems reasonable that it all seemed rushed.

And by the way, do you remember your hero being in one of the worst WM main events ever? Do you not offer excuses for that match? I'm fairly certain I've seen you make them.

[James Steele]

I also don't think it is wise to build a long-term feud around a very nasty personal situation. We hammer WWE if they use someone's alcoholism, death, drug use, etc. in storylines.

[James Steele]

Allegedly they were supposed to have 6-7 more minutes and it was cut down minutes before the match started. And it wasn't a shitfest at all. You are completely exaggerating. And why would a match with tons of weapons with two guys that are known for crazy spots not include spots? You seem like you're being pretty biased right now. They had a lot of things planned and had to cut it down on the fly. Seems reasonable that it all seemed rushed.

And by the way, do you remember your hero being in one of the worst WM main events ever? Do you not offer excuses for that match? I'm fairly certain I've seen you make them.

The match itself wasn't bad. The crowd was drained and the stipulations didn't fit the storyline. It is hardly one of the worst WM main events ever.

[Nark Order]

It is really easy to explain why both didn't make it into the main event. Matt Hardy wasn'tt good enough to be a main eventer and Edge was. Promos do matter when a feud is based entirely off of emotion and hatred. Matt Hardy couldn't sustain his overness once the Jerry Springer heat wore off of Edge.

Why are you exaggerating so much? The promos were not laughably bad or anything, but they could've been better on Hardy's part. And I just explained to you why anybody with a reasonable business sense could've made money on this feud. This situation was so good they could've made a fortune on it even if Matt Hardy was completely deaf and couldn't deliver a promo at all. You don't let things like this just go. This situation will NEVER happen again. Never. Not ever.

Probably the biggest missed opportunity in WWE history, IMO.

[Nark Order]

The match itself wasn't bad. The crowd was drained and the stipulations didn't fit the storyline. It is hardly one of the worst WM main events ever.

See? You're fine offering excuses when it involves things that you care about.

[James Steele]

Why are you exaggerating so much? The promos were not laughably bad or anything, but they could've been better on Hardy's part. And I just explained to you why anybody with a reasonable business sense could've made money on this feud. This situation was so good they could've made a fortune on it even if Matt Hardy was completely deaf and couldn't deliver a promo at all. You don't let things like this just go. This situation will NEVER happen again. Never. Not ever.

Probably the biggest missed opportunity in WWE history, IMO.

...and I'm the one exaggerating?

See? You're fine offering excuses when it involves things that you care about.

I didn't excuse the wrestlers or the match for not delivering. I simply stated why it did. You just are saying "nuh uh. It had a sick finish! It needed more time!" 13 minutes is plenty of time for a midcard match at WrestleMania.

[James Steele]

Edge/Mysterio vs Brock/Tajiri. It is shorter than Matt/Jeff and is probably better.

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x2333t"></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2333t_brock-lesnar-tajiri-vs-rey-mysterio_sport" target="_blank">Brock Lesnar &amp; Tajiri vs Rey Mysterio &amp; Edge</a> <i>by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/SmackDown54" target="_blank">SmackDown54</a></i>

[Nark Order]

I'm not exaggerating. I really think it could've been fucking gigantic if the WWE knew what they had even remotely.

And that's not what I'm doing at all. Nobody wanted their money back after that Hardy/Hardy match. It was an entertaining match but it didn't live up to expectations at all. Part of the reason is because the match was rushed and they tried to fit a ton into a small period of time. And the ending was sick.

And yes, I don't remember being more disappointed in a WWE main event than I was after that Trips /Orton match. Maybe Miz/Cena.

[James Steele]

Narc, do you think the Benoit/Sullivan feud could have been a marquee feud for WCW and led them into the new millenium?

[James Steele]

Matt and Jeff know how to work a match. They could have cut out some of those spots and put on a much better match that told the story better. Matt killed Jeff's dog, burned his house down, burned him with pyro, etc. It shouldn't have just been a spotfest.

[Nark Order]

Hey speaking of WWE main eventers that were absolutely fucking incredible on the mic, there's Brock Lesnar!

[James Steele]

For everyone's enjoyment:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/RLOuPTv6QAo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[James Steele]

Hey speaking of WWE main eventers that were absolutely fucking incredible on the mic, there's Brock Lesnar!

:lol: Are you really trying to compare Brock Lesnar and Matt Hardy? Lesnar didn't need to ever say a word. Brock Lesnar is the personification of "spectacle".

[Nark Order]

Narc, do you think the Benoit/Sullivan feud could have been a marquee feud for WCW and led them into the new millenium?

Hey James, do you think that the Goldberg/Hogan match should've been cancelled because Bill Goldberg can't cut a promo to save his life?

Let's continue asking questions that further our points but that are completely out of context.

[James Steele]

"What about my dawwwwwg, Matt? What about Jack, man?"

[James Steele]

Hey James, do you think that the Goldberg/Hogan match should've been cancelled because Bill Goldberg can't cut a promo to save his life?

Let's continue asking questions that further our points but that are completely out of context.

:lol: Are you really trying to compare Goldberg and Matt Hardy? Goldberg didn't need to ever say a word. Goldberg is the personification of "spectacle".

[Nark Order]

Oh. So you mean he didn't have to cut the greatest promos because his work in the ring and the story lines were enough to push him into the main event? Interesting stuff.

[James Steele]

I will say that WWE was stupid for turning Matt babyface like 2 months after WM25.

[Nark Order]

It's almost as if that same principle could be applied to other situations.

[James Steele]

Oh. So you mean he didn't have to cut the greatest promos because his work in the ring and the story lines were enough to push him into the main event? Interesting stuff.

Golberg sucked in the ring. So did Hogan and Ultimate Warrior. Wrestling isn't always about the ring work. Some guys have such off the charts natural charisma and an aura about them that they draw in spite of their shit wrestling. Brock Lesnar had that aura but could actually wrestle. Perfect storm of greatness for Brock Lesnar. Matt Hardy is a decent to good wrestler and shit to below average on the mic. He has never had an aura on his own. He leeched off of Jeff Hardy and the sympathy people felt for him with the Lita situation. If Matt/Lita weren't such an established on-screen couple, I don't think it would have anywhere near as big of a deal to the fans.

Edge took the opportunity and made the most out of it. Matt didn't and just continued to whine and bitch for the rest of his career.

[Nark Order]

Do you know what else was a spectacle? That Edge/Hardy storyline that will never happen again. Are we getting somewhere yet?

[James Steele]

Do you know what else was a spectacle? That Edge/Hardy storyline that will never happen again. Are we getting somewhere yet?

No. Whores cheating on their boyfriends isn't all that revolutionary or rare. See: Sullivan/Benoit/Woman, See: Val Venis' first year in the WWF.

[James Steele]

People got tired of him whining about the whole situation, but somehow it could have been a years long eternal battle of wills over some well-used poongtang?

[Lock Jaw]

http://i.imgur.com/bGEIX.gif

[Nark Order]

No. Whores cheating on their boyfriends isn't all that revolutionary or rare. See: Sullivan/Benoit/Woman, See: Val Venis' first year in the WWF.

See? There you go again trying to simplify what was a very complex situation. It was not just about the cheating. Edge/Lita had an affair which caused Matt to flip his shit on the Internet. The WWE, seeing that this was a shitstorm fired Hardy because they saw more in Edge than they did in Hardy. Then for the next couple of months, Edge couldn't even go to the ring without 9 million Matt Hardy fans wanting to rip him limb from limb. Matt Hardy fans literally hijacked every show that Edge was on for months. It got to the point that WWE couldn't ignore it anymore and were pretty much forced to give Matt Hardy his job back so they could see this feud through. That will never happen again and it should not be discounted how crazy all of that was. That will never happen again.

[James Steele]

...and all those Matt Hardy fans disappeared and never returned once the feud was over. The fans have always gone nuts when someone they truly like gets fired unjustly: Matt Hardy, Daniel Bryan, Ric Flair, etc. Matt couldn't capitalize on it and it isn't because he lost to Edge at SummerSlam but because he just isn't that good.

[XL]

In all seriousness, I wonder if Edge's injury hasn't been deliberately overblown so that he can make a huge surprise comeback someday. I don't believe this to be the case, but if he showed up one day in just that fashion my response would definitely be "I fucking knew it!"

If he came back and won the Rumble/a title it'd be the most epic example of being "The Ultimate Opportunist".

[Nark Order]

No they didn't. He had an eventful run on Smackdown but the fans aren't going to stick around forever if they aren't given a reason to give a shit. They didnt strike while the iron was hot because they never do. You have a very annoying habit of not telling the full story so you can try to further your argument. It's very frustrating talking to you on here sometimes. Like seriously, you need to work on that. I can't have a regular conversation with you.

[James Steele]

No they didn't. He had an eventful run on Smackdown but the fans aren't going to stick around forever if they aren't given a reason to give a shit. They didnt strike while the iron was hot because they never do. You have a very annoying habit of not telling the full story so you can try to further your argument. It's very frustrating talking to you on here sometimes. Like seriously, you need to work on that. I can't have a regular conversation with you.

Matt Hardy didn't give them enough to give a shit about. He went from a guy seeking vengeance to a boring whiny cunt. People don't like whiny cunts. WWE took advantage of the situation and had a months long feud over it. Edge capitalized and Matt didn't. Everybody can't be a main eventer. Matt should be proud of how far he came piggy-backing off his brother and whore girlfriend.

[XL]

That Love Triangle heat launched Edge into the stratosphere. Edge was arguably more ready for the push than Hardy but the booking definitely helped. Not only did he get the upper hand in the first match at SummerSlam but he got the final say when he won a match to send Matt to SmackDown.

Of course, Steele won't agree with that. Vince/WWE are, after all, infallible.

[James Steele]

Stop being such a smug dickhead. I have attested to several of WWE's mistakes in this very thread. Just because I don't blame Vince McMahon for every time a wrestler doesn't become a superstar main eventer doesn't mean I don't give WWE its due criticism. You and the Snooty Cunt Patrol seem to go out of your way to shit on everything WWE/Vince McMahon does.

[Hanso Amore]

I agree that is is a unique situation that will never be duplicated. But when half the feud is a limited character it can only go so far.

[James Steele]

That Love Triangle heat launched Edge into the stratosphere. Edge was arguably more ready for the push than Hardy but the booking definitely helped. Not only did he get the upper hand in the first match at SummerSlam but he got the final say when he won a match to send Matt to SmackDown.

Of course, Steele won't agree with that. Vince/WWE are, after all, infallible.

Also, why wouldn't WWE use that hot feud to push Edge over the top and into the main event? He was more ready for it and I dare argue long overdue for it. They should have killed their next top heel just to help a mediocre midcard babyface maybe become IC Champion?

[James Steele]

When Edge got inducted into the Hall of Fame, I don't remember too many "We Want Matt!" chants and those HoF crowds are nothing but obnoxious smarks.

[GD]

Jeff Hardy is probably going to miss Wrestlemania and come back. I've heard good things about Matt Hardy's current role in ROH. If they get their act together, the WWE will do a great job to market their brand.

[James Steele]

I'd love to see Matt/Jeff back in WWE as a tag team. I think the WWE has missed out by not using the NAO enough. A small feud going into a PPV to put over Primetime Players or some other heel tag team wouldn't hurt anything.

[James Steele]

The more I think about it, a New Age Outlaws vs Primetime Players feud would be awesome.

[Nark Order]

James Steele, do you understand how frustrating it is trying to talk to you about things on here? You purposely exaggerate everything and only reference parts of the story that fit your argument. I'm trying really hard not to be a dick to you but you are making it very difficult. Are you always like this on here?

[James Steele]

I don't see how I'm leaving out anything important. You like to make every little facet of something seem like a big fucking deal when it wasn't. Yes, fans went nuts for Hardy but they stopped once the sympathy ran out. If only Matt Hardy had main eventers sleep with his girlfriends more often...

[Hanso Amore]

James Steele, do you understand how frustrating it is trying to talk to you about things on here? You purposely exaggerate everything and only reference parts of the story that fit your argument. I'm trying really hard not to be a dick to you but you are making it very difficult. Are you always like this on here?

Says the guy that seems to remember hardy as being way more over than he was. People were against edge more than they were for hardy.

[Nark Order]

So, you dont think that WWE could've made more money on this feud? The matches that they did have, everyone went absolutely fucking nuts for and that was even after WWE tried to cut its legs off at Summerslam. To me, Heyman or Cornette would've knocked this out of the building. WWE lets personal feelings get in the way of business far too much. They really had something special here and they treated it like it was everything else. I remember every single match from this feud and something specific that happened in each match. That cant be said for too many midcard feuds that happened 8 years ago. They absolutely could've cashed in on this more than they did.

[James Steele]

I can understand why WWE decided against dragging out a feud based on a real backstage affair though.

[Nark Order]

Says the guy that seems to remember hardy as being way more over than he was. People were against edge more than they were for hardy.

Well, that's impossible to prove that people were more against Edge than they were for Hardy, now isnt it? But I'm guessing that's probably why you said that.


And go watch when Matt Hardy's music played during the edge/kane feud and tell me he wasn't over. And that was just his music.

[Hanso Amore]

They were popping because of his return/shock/the situation.

That's like saying people cheered buff bagwell because he was over and not because of his injury. People dug the story, not hardy which is why once the initial shock wore off that people went back to not giving a shit about hardy.

[James Steele]

People popped for Hornswoggle all the time. Does that mean WWE should put the WWE Championship on him?

[James Steele]

Both are former WWE Cruiserweight Champions by the way.

[Hanso Amore]

The difference is harnswoggle actually sold merchandise

[Nark Order]

Are you two done jacking each other off yet?

[Nark Order]

They were popping because of his return/shock/the situation.

That's like saying people cheered buff bagwell because he was over and not because of his injury. People dug the story, not hardy which is why once the initial shock wore off that people went back to not giving a shit about hardy.

They were popping and cheering for him before he even returned returned/was mentioned, which is why he returned. And whether they were popping for him or the situation as a whole, there was a ton of money to be made off of this and they didnt capitalize on it. They chose to get butthurt over something getting over that they didnt create instwad of cashing in. That's why I hate the WWE sometimes.

[James Steele]

They got butt-hurt because they didn't create the Edge/Lita affair that occurred because they were on the road together working for WWE. If anything, WWE is responsible for this incident and that is why they felt bad and didn't want to push the angle further especially since Matt Hardy is on the Autism Spectrum.

[James Steele]

Are you two done jacking each other off yet?

No. We aren't even fully erect yet.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

My opinion is that Matt Hardy was a bit shit on his own without Jeff. There's plenty more guys that have come and gone that I'm more bothered about not getting a good push.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I remember biting hard and marking out when Matt Hardy's theme hit during Edge and Lita's wedding, and he wasn't even there.

[James Steele]

I remember biting my pillow hard when Triple H defeated John Cena at Night of Champions 2008.

[Nark Order]

They got butt-hurt because they didn't create the Edge/Lita affair that occurred because they were on the road together working for WWE. If anything, WWE is responsible for this incident and that is why they felt bad and didn't want to push the angle further especially since Matt Hardy is on the Autism Spectrum.

My roommate will be very happy to hear that the next time he cheats on his girlfriend at the local dive bar that its actually not his fault but a scenario that the bar itself created.

[Nark Order]

I remember biting hard and marking out when Matt Hardy's theme hit during Edge and Lita's wedding, and he wasn't even there.

Yeah. Pretty much everybody did. The wrestling forum gets into these weird modes sometimes where they have to discount everything a certain person or company has ever done because it's trendy to do so. Mad frustrating sometimes. Right now "lol tna" and "lol Fatt Hardy" seem to be fairly popular.

[Hanso Amore]

I'm pretty sure it's been lol fatt hardy for 5 years

[Lock Jaw]

And lol tna for 11 years

[Theo Dious]

And lol tna for 11 years

By no means. TNA was hailed as a foretold savior that was going to save wrestling for quite some time. To the point where anyone who was "being misused" by WWE was advised to go to TNA "where they would be used properly."

[Theo Dious]

Yeah. Pretty much everybody did. The wrestling forum gets into these weird modes sometimes where they have to discount everything a certain person or company has ever done because it's trendy to do so. Mad frustrating sometimes. Right now "lol tna" and "lol Fatt Hardy" seem to be fairly popular.

Much the same way as the people who worshipped the dicks of Randy Orton and John Cena as they were making their rise now talk shit on both because it's the cool thing to do. Fuck, with Kennedy he went from "he should be champion but WWE is stupid and doesn't know what they're doing" to "lol fuck him he sucks AMIRITE" in a matter of weeks.

[GD]

I would love to see a Team Xtreme versus Londrick feud for the tag team titles.

[Lux]

wait which hardy is fat. kidding I know it has to be matt.

[Fignuts]

I believe that WWE could have handled the Matt/Edge feud better, however I don't think it would have made much difference.

Edge would still become a world champion, and top heel, while Matt would be in mid card limbo. Matt is not, and never has been good enough to sustain whatever momentum he would have got from that situation being booked better.

I think his booking after turning heel and beating Jeff at mania is worth complaining about, more than the edge situation.

[Fignuts]

Also, I miss umaga.

[Lux]

I hear that statement and agree fully.

[KyleEmmott]

They'll both end their careers in WWE, I'm almost sure of that.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm right on board with the Edge/Matt stuff being a major missed opportunity. The WWE missed another with Christian that year. People can say "neither Christian nor Matt Hardy would have been a long-term main eventer for the company," but that's just the way they turned out. Had they been capitalized on, had people been told it was cool to get behind them, had they not been shipped to SmackDown after losing to their rivals constantly, maybe things would be different? You can't say that Matt Hardy (or Christian for that matter) never had a real connection to fans, was never over, never had a good match, was never entertaining, never moved merchandise, never provided great moments or wasn't at all charismatic. We're talking about 32-year old 2005 Matt Hardy here -- not 37-year old 2010 "Fatt" Hardy, who was essentially the same character just older and having never achieved anything.

I think the Hardy/Edge stuff went off the rails as soon as Vince McMahon brought Hardy back. When Vince said that he listens to the fans and has brought Matt Hardy back, Matt should have called Vince out for firing him in the first place and then given Vince the Twist of Fate. Give the guy a chance to get over instead of "Thank you, Mr. McMahon. I love you, Mr. McMahon."

Edge vs. Hardy in a grungy fight should have been a priority for SummerSlam that year. If it were a No DQ Match, Hardy should have won to re-establish his presence in the WWE. It doesn't matter if Edge was always going to be star and Hardy wasn't (I do think both could have been stars), why not give the fans a chance to see Matt as an ass-kicker. If the match didn't have a hardcore stipulation, instead of ending it with Hardy getting the shit kicked out of him (yeah, that will get people behind him), they should have had the referee call for a DQ. Maybe even have it a screwy DQ call, to make it look like management is protecting Edge.

You can still do the Steel Cage Match at Unforgiven exactly the same way. Hardy winning cleanly with the Leg Drop from the cage was pretty epic. To be honest, though, you could have had Matt take a dive on Edge, but Edge move and then escape out the door for a slimy heel win. It would have kept Matt chasing him.

At the end of the immediate feud, you would have still done the Ladder Match with the briefcase on the line. Hardy could have either won this match (if he were catching on as a star after not being buried at the start), or Edge could have won after shenanigans. Maybe Christian, at this point on the SmackDown brand, I believe, could have cost Hardy the match, helping out his "brother" and clarifying that he did it because Matt Hardy's been taking his spotlight for the past few months and no one is in a frenzy about him anymore. Hardy vs. Christian could have been a fine story to tell on the blue brand.

[Nark Order]

I wonder how tempting it was for Matt to just crush Edge's head like a watermelon with that cage leg drop. That move took a ton of trust. Seemed like little room for error.

[Curd]

SO... what y'all think about Mattitude? Do you think WWE missed the boat by not giving Matt Hardy a V2.0 gimmick to evolve his V1.0 persona?

[Lux]

I like Matt but during that I could only say about two times did I ever see any real attitude out of him. maybe I'm pulling a Vince but had he a lot more ruthless aggression we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[DAMN iNATOR]

wait which hardy is fat. kidding I know it has to be matt.

Yep. Good ol' Fatt Lardy.

[KyleEmmott]

Okay, Matt Hardy just put out a tweet that makes me think he's possible coming back to the WWE.