QUESTION - Can John Cena make a legit claim in being the 4th biggest Superstar in WWE history?

[Heyman]

QUESTION - Can John Cena make a legit claim in being the 4th biggest Superstar in WWE history?

Definitely a bold claim to make, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say, "yes"...........Outside of Hogan, Steve Austin, and The Rock, John Cena is the biggest superstar that the wrestling industry has ever had.

Bigger than Taker, bigger than Bret, bigger than Shawn, bigger than Flair, bigger than Andre, biggger than Goldberg, bigger than Macho Man, and yes..........bigger than Bruno Sammartino.

Do you agree or disagree with the above claim?

[Lock Jaw]

I do not agree. He is bigger than Steve Austin too.

[DaveBrawl]

I'd say it depends on how you determine his level of success. I don't believe he'll ever be remembered with nostalgia or fondness on the level of a Macho Man or Andre or Flair or even Warrior much less the other big 3. Money wise, tickets and shirts sold sure he is.

Then again kids today may look back on him the way we look back on the others I mentioned. I don't think they will, they'll probably be more in line with how most of us feel about Power Rangers or something like that. It was great when we were little, but when you get older you will realize that it was pretty poor most of the time.

[Kingofdaswing]

No he is definitely not in the top 4. Not even close, it's just the standard the "fans" have today are so small. Not too mention, the wrestling audience is at, or close too all time lows, along with attendance. I'll list 8, and you can tell me how Cena should rank above any of them.

1. Hogan
2. Sammartino
3. Austin
4. Flair
5. Rock
6. Hart
7. Michaels
8. HHH

Hell, I didn't even mention guys like Lou Thesz, Andre, Buddy Rogers, Inoki and the list can really go on and on.

Like I said, please tell me how you can possibly put a guy who can't even do a proper drop kick ahead of any of the above mentioned names.

[Heyman]

Like I said, please tell me how you can possibly put a guy who can't even do a proper drop kick ahead of any of the above mentioned names.

I probably should have been more clear in my post.

My rankings isn't based on a 1:1 correlation with wrestling ability.

It's simply based on star power.

For example - Flair was a better wrestler than The Rock, but I don't think anyone can debate that Flair was ever a bigger superstar than The Rock.

[Hanso Amore]

I dont know.

In 20 years ask 100 random people who John Cena is and maybe 50 will know.

But I bet you in 20 more years you ask anyone who Hulk Hogan, The Rock, Stone Cold, Andre the Giant, macho man Randy Savage and MAYBE Ric Flair, and 100 out of 100 will know.

Being top dog in the WWE for 10 years is amazing and hes a big deal, but I dont think he is WorldWide megastar "BIGGEST STAR".

Being a big deal in WWE canon is not the same as being a worldwide star.

[Hanso Amore]

It really comes down to how you want to measure the success. I imagine in terms of money made hes right there with the other biggest names. I dunno, just think hes a big deal, making big money, but history wont be so kind to him.

[Heisenberg]

Random Cena moment

http://i.imgur.com/pdO0XZE.gif

[Mr. Nerfect]

John Cena will go down as, statistically speaking, the greatest WWE Superstar of all-time when he retires. I'm not sure if that will translate to mainstream recognizability, but I'd say that Cena is pretty well known. I wouldn't have known who the Ultimate Warrior was if I wasn't into professional wrestling. I'd probably have come across something to do with John Cena by now.

[Emperor Smeat]

Depends on the criteria and what gets used but I'd say yes in terms of Eras considering the big eras of the WWE have been Bruno, Hogan, Stone Cold, and Cena.

His era is very similar to Hogan's and Bruno's in the sense that all three have lasted for a long time and all three evolved to the point of the WWE solely revolving around them unlike Stone Cold's era.

Popularity wise, he's not the 4th biggest since HBK, Rock, and a few others can make stronger claims. Overall drawing power is a bit debatable since the WWE panics way too quickly to ever give anyone else a real chance although he is really well at stabilizing ratings and ppvs buys.

[Hanso Amore]

The difference in his era with the 3 you mentioned is his isnt a huge boom, its not transcendant, and it hasnt changed the landscape.

2005 to now, WWE is pretty much the same. Not like 1997 to 2001. or 83 to 87.

[GD]

Random Cena moment

http://i.imgur.com/pdO0XZE.gif

I don't care for Cena's endorsement.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/102/433/John-Cena-and-Zack-Ryder-john-cena-28898654-360-360_display_image.jpg?1333656153

[Bad News Gertner]

I'd go if we are talking about strictly their time in the WWE

Hogan
Andre
Rock
Austin
Bruno
Taker
Cena.

HBK was on top when nobody watched the WWE, same with Bret. Flair didn't really have a long run. Savage is in the same category as Hart and HBK.

[#1-norm-fan]

I think he could make a legit claim, sure. I'd probably put him 5th or 6th behind Andre and Bruno maybe.

[#1-norm-fan]

Like I said, please tell me how you can possibly put a guy who can't even do a proper drop kick ahead of any of the above mentioned names.

What does that have to do with a bigger star.

But even so, I don't remember Andre exactly having a stellar dropkick...

[Maluco]

Easily 4th in my opinion. You need to consider the scope of just how far WWE reaches these days and in how many countries it has a presence. MUCH more people worldwide know who John Cena is than Bruno or Andre.

Add to that to the money that Cena has made for the company over many years, and just how many PPV's he has been the selling point for over the last decade, then he is easily in 4th. That doesn't even take into account just how big a PR man he is for the company and what his charity work does for WWE's image. He is everywhere, and has been doing it for an incredible amount of time.

[Bad News Gertner]

Andre was VERY famous worldwide.

[Bad News Gertner]

Gentlemen, I've got some good news and some bad news.

The good news is, Kingofdaswing has shown he really appreciates a good workrate

[Bad News Gertner]

The bad news is, he also appreciated when his sister went to prom with him


http://i.imgur.com/w6fKz8T.png

[Kingofdaswing]

What does that have to do with a bigger star.

But even so, I don't remember Andre exactly having a stellar dropkick...

Andre also knew he didn't have a stellar drop kick, and never tried one in his career.

[Bad News Gertner]

This is exciting, we haven't had one of you in a while.

[Shadrick]

lmao

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, Andre the Giant is probably one of the most famous wrestlers ever.

[Hanso Amore]

Andre also knew he didn't have a stellar drop kick, and never tried one in his career.

Except that he did. Alot.

[Hanso Amore]

Easily 4th in my opinion. You need to consider the scope of just how far WWE reaches these days and in how many countries it has a presence. MUCH more people worldwide know who John Cena is than Bruno or Andre.

Add to that to the money that Cena has made for the company over many years, and just how many PPV's he has been the selling point for over the last decade, then he is easily in 4th. That doesn't even take into account just how big a PR man he is for the company and what his charity work does for WWE's image. He is everywhere, and has been doing it for an incredible amount of time.

Bruno - you are right worldwide.

But Andre?

Shit, Andre is probably better know than Stone Cold in Asia. He is a massive worldwide star.

[Bad News Gertner]

Worldwide, yes, but Bruno for pretty much it, aside from Pedro Morales, from the early 60's to 1984 for the WWF.

[whiteyford]

Andre also knew he didn't have a stellar drop kick, and never tried one in his career.

Cena can work a solid match when he wants too, so could Hogan, but neither of those guys has to take ridiculous bumps or work 60 minute Iron Man matches night in night out to garner a reaction so why would they? The majority of Hogans matches are terrible second time around, IMO, but there's a reason he made millions doing his 5 moves of doom and ROH doesn't.

[Kingofdaswing]

Years from now, people will continue to talk about these

Andre vs Hogan at WM.
Hogan changing the game and going to WCW
Hogan/Nash/Hall and the NWO.
DX (The first instalment, all others were crap)
Austin at KOTR
Austin vs Bret at WM
HBK vs Bret Iron man match
Undertakers undefeated streak

Ect.... Ect.....

What giant thing has Cena done? Nothing that really raises my eyebrows. He has t changed the game, nor has he done anything out of the ordinary. In my opinion, Cena will be remembered for being a champion at a time when wrestling just isn't a big deal. Will it die, no, but honestly I don't recall anything that has been done by Cena, or any other of these new stars that WWE has, that will make me look back in a couple years and say "Wow, that was awesome."

[Mr. Nerfect]

If John Cena turned heel (I know, fruitless discussion), do you think that would solidify his placement as one of wrestling's biggest stars? Cena hasn't been a heel since he initially turned face, but turning was even a point in the careers of Hogan, Austin and Rock. Becoming a bad guy would be the biggest shake-up the WWE has had since...well, in probably over a decade, right?

If Cena turned heel, it could also lead to a nostalgia being developed over the old John Cena. Much like how Hollywood Hogan led to a nostalgia for Hulk Hogan, despite Hogan going through incredible stale phases as professional wrestling's babyface.

I've got a theory that a lot of heels that turn face actually need to turn heel again to really become that top babyface they could be. We see a lot of flopped face turns for heels (Alberto Del Rio, The Miz, Dolph Ziggler and even CM Punk are all solid examples), and I think a large part of that is because people aren't ready to accept sudden changes of personality. It didn't really make sense that any of those guys were suddenly a knight in shining white armor. So when they snap back to the dark side, it makes sense and feels normal again, but then you begin to respect and adore their heel tendencies. Suddenly they have the respect they need to transition more smoothly into face status.

I probably didn't explain that as well as I could have, and it's obviously not a constant rule, but I do think that it helps if the fans are begging for that face turn, instead of simply receiving it. Cena turning heel would be a different kettle of chips, but eventually the fans would be begging for face Cena back, after the "cool factor" of having Bad Cena around wears off.

I'm also thinking that Cena vs. Daniel Bryan would be far more epic if Cena were representing The Authority and what's #BestforBusiness.

[Bad News Gertner]

Cena vs Punk at MITB was a gem. As was his match with Umaga.

[Maluco]

Should have been more clear about Andre. I know he was well known worldwide for his time, but the scope of WWE and wrestling in general is so much bigger nowadays.

Most people who know Andre in Asia for example, would also know Cena if they have (or their children have) retained an interest in wrestling.

There are many more countries on that list nowadays. Places like South America now have a WWE presence and have been exposed to John Cena, whereas they would only have Andre as a historical reference.

Andre was a massive star, but Cena must be so well known by so many people at the moment. That was my point.

[Savio]

Macho, Andre and Flair are bigger IMO. But he can make the claim.

[Savio]

If brock wasnt a hermit he'd probably be bigger than Cena

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm pretty sure that Brock Lesnar leaving the WWE was a huge reason that Cena became the face of the company as he has. I'm sure he would have still been a successful champion and all that, but it may have come years later, and his career not so prolific. Maybe smarks would even be in love with him and claim he deserves more?

[Tommy Gunn]

I feel like Cena's journey parallels Hogan, but almost exactly 20 years later. Hogan being big between 1985-1993, and Cena 2005-2013. And like Hogan, it feels like the fans are more than ready to see someone else at the top, a Bret / HBK type in the form of a Daniel Bryan ;)

[Mr. Nerfect]

A Cena heel turn would be perfect then. He should win at TLC and be all goody-two-shoes about facing Royal Rumble Winner Daniel Bryan at WrestleMania XXX, only to turn on Bryan and do everything he can to retain his spot as "The Face of WWE."

[Jordan]

I'd go buy longevity and merchandise, as that really speaks to how the fans repsond, being able for buy merchandise for a guy over long periods of time is a great indicator how how "big of a star" someone is. Couple that with the catalog of great John Cena matches over the years and I'd say....

1. Hogan
2. Austin
3. Cena
4. Rock
5. Triple H

Cena's run at the top has been a constant success for 10 years. They make so much money off him as a baby face, turning him heel would be promotional malpractice.

I rank him higher than The Rock because he has had many more big time main event matches that drew money, and he has always sold a shit load of merch and garnered the passionate attention of everyone who watched.

[Rammsteinmad]

To be fair, I have no idea what it's like in the US, but I kinda feel like most people today don't really know who guys like Steve Austin are.

Just saying, mainstream recognition isn't the be-all-end-all of measuring someone's success.

[MoFo]

Dunno, maybe I've just spent too much time on the net with jaded fans slagging him off but I still kind of think Cena has been forced on us where as there was actually a clamouring to see Hogan, Austin etc on TV.

[Bad News Gertner]

I feel like Cena's journey parallels Hogan, but almost exactly 20 years later. Hogan being big between 1985-1993, and Cena 2005-2013. And like Hogan, it feels like the fans are more than ready to see someone else at the top, a Bret / HBK type in the form of a Daniel Bryan ;)

Hogan was also big between 1996-1998, and Bret/HBK pretty much sank the WWF ship.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If Cena turned heel, I think it would open entirely new waves of promotional material. Everyone would want a "Cool Cena" t-shirt if he were a renegade heel. Remember the nWo shirts? It just depends on whether the WWE are ready for such a paradigm shift to overtake their company.

[Hanso Amore]

Hogan was also big between 1996-1998, and Bret/HBK pretty much sank the WWF ship.

Now thats not true. It wasnt their fault alone. WWE business dropped off because of poor booking and stupid characters. You could Blame Diesel, Razor, Taker, and Yoko as well. But I think the only blame for that drop was Vince.

Then they adapted and took over the entire business, which VInce gets credit for.

HBK Adapted and helped launch the WWE to the top, where Stone COld and the Rock took it over the goal line.

I feel like Cena/Hogan comparison is pretty apt. I think that Cena becoming a heelwouldnt kill the WWE at all, in fact it would energize the older fans and maybe help boost some ratings, and Daniel Bryan is PERFECT to become the child friendly "Face" of the WWE.

[Hanso Amore]

I'm pretty sure that Brock Lesnar leaving the WWE was a huge reason that Cena became the face of the company as he has. I'm sure he would have still been a successful champion and all that, but it may have come years later, and his career not so prolific. Maybe smarks would even be in love with him and claim he deserves more?

Imagine if Brock didnt leave and instead of HHH/Orton/Cena ruling the WWE from 2003-2013 it was Brock, Orton and Cena?

[Savio]

If Cena turned heel, I think it would open entirely new waves of promotional material. Everyone would want a "Cool Cena" t-shirt if he were a renegade heel. Remember the nWo shirts? It just depends on whether the WWE are ready for such a paradigm shift to overtake their company.
kids buy more merch

[dronepool]

He could be up there but Undertaker is a bigger name than Cena.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Now thats not true. It wasnt their fault alone. WWE business dropped off because of poor booking and stupid characters. You could Blame Diesel, Razor, Taker, and Yoko as well. But I think the only blame for that drop was Vince.

Then they adapted and took over the entire business, which VInce gets credit for.

HBK Adapted and helped launch the WWE to the top, where Stone COld and the Rock took it over the goal line.

I feel like Cena/Hogan comparison is pretty apt. I think that Cena becoming a heelwouldnt kill the WWE at all, in fact it would energize the older fans and maybe help boost some ratings, and Daniel Bryan is PERFECT to become the child friendly "Face" of the WWE.

I agree with you on Daniel Bryan being the perfect child-friendly face. The problem with CM Punk is that he didn't really fit that "PG-era good guy" mold. Daniel Bryan manages to tick those boxes while remaining tremendously over with almost all the demographics. If Shawn Michaels can turn heel against the guy, something is working.

I can understand the WWE's reluctance to do so. Maybe they want to try having their cake and eating it too? In that case, I'd put Bryan over Cena in the main event of WrestleMania XXX, after making Cena submit for the first time in like a decade to his YES! Lock. That way, Bryan has done the unthinkable and Cena has passed the torch in the biggest way he ever could. It wouldn't just be a clean win over Cena, but it would be the clean win over Cena.

Going forward, Bryan would be your undisputed WWE World Champion, which means the spotlight is on him and he is getting the chance he deserves. John Cena would concede to be the second-fiddle, but would still be involved in major storylines as Triple H would be furious that Cena tapped out to Bryan. He was meant to beat him and be "The Face of WWE." Cena is all "Sorry, the kid is too good," so Triple H sends Cena against groups of opponents and such.

At some point you can then put Bryan and Cena against each other again, and there Cena can cheat his ass off to win the World Title, revealing his true colors -- knowing he can't beat Bryan he cheats his ass of to secure his legacy and keep himself at top. The Authority can fully back Cena as the WWE World Champion, and Bryan has to win the Royal Rumble for the second year in a row to challenge John Cena at WrestleMania.

[Bad News Gertner]

Now thats not true. It wasnt their fault alone. WWE business dropped off because of poor booking and stupid characters. You could Blame Diesel, Razor, Taker, and Yoko as well. But I think the only blame for that drop was Vince.

Then they adapted and took over the entire business, which VInce gets credit for.

HBK Adapted and helped launch the WWE to the top, where Stone COld and the Rock took it over the goal line.

I feel like Cena/Hogan comparison is pretty apt. I think that Cena becoming a heelwouldnt kill the WWE at all, in fact it would energize the older fans and maybe help boost some ratings, and Daniel Bryan is PERFECT to become the child friendly "Face" of the WWE.

The booking was no different with Hogan, and Bret/HBK were pretty much the focal point even when Diesel had his long run.

[#1-norm-fan]

Yeah, the only major booking difference was they went against the larger than life Hogan type and into the less personality, more athletic Bret/HBK type and it was terrible for business.

[Optimus Bone 69]

The only reason i cant truly truly hate this man is when i see all those kids at the Make a wish shin digs
you gotta admire that and it really must take its toll seeing what he see's

[DAMN iNATOR]

Yeah, Andre the Giant is probably one of the most famous wrestlers ever.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9_HXNwL5yvU/T3aKmgF62HI/AAAAAAAABY8/BCCjxGz5KaM/s1600/OBEY.bmp

[Curd]

John Cena will go down as, statistically speaking, the greatest WWE Superstar of all-time when he retires. I'm not sure if that will translate to mainstream recognizability, but I'd say that Cena is pretty well known. I wouldn't have known who the Ultimate Warrior was if I wasn't into professional wrestling. I'd probably have come across something to do with John Cena by now.

Yeah! Cena's Make-A-Wish record of 300+ appearances cements his status as high profile outside the ring. Add his apparel, movie, and cereal merchandising royalties, too! The sum of all that is very Top Five, if not #4.

[Hanso Amore]

The booking was no different with Hogan, and Bret/HBK were pretty much the focal point even when Diesel had his long run.

Ummm, No

[Bad News Gertner]

Um yes. The transition from Hogan to HBK/Bret was awful. HBK didn't "adapt". The company fell ass over backwards into the greatest storyline ever. Hogan was killing the WWF during HBK and Bret's reign.