There is no way they can close Mania with Orton vs Batista...

[CharismaInjection]

If they seriously don't add a stipulation to add Daniel Bryan in, then they need to be in the middle of the card at best. The crowd hates this feud, and WM crowd are the most vocal, it'll be an embarrassment to the company that the 30th anniversary of WM is shit all over. Either add Bryan to the match, or have HHH/Bryan close the show with the promise Bryan is going to get a title shot at extreme rules. Bryan is logically the only superstar who can close the show.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Nah the crowd after Raw is the most vocal. The audio in a big stadium might screw the audio of the crowd being pissed.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Gertner's idea for Daniel Bryan to beat Triple H and then get into the World Title main event is still the best one I have seen. But if they didn't want to do that, then I think taking a page out of NJPW's book and letting the fans vote on which "main event" they want to go on last would be a good decision. They can offer Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan, The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar and Randy Orton vs. Batista as options.

That way, the fans will most likely vote for the execution of Triple H to headline. Batista can beat Orton as the crowd boos the shit out of him. Batista then turns heel against Bryan and can be bitter that Bryan got to headline over him.

But Gertner's idea is still the best. I'd have Bryan make Triple H tap-out to The YES! Lock. He then pins Orton after hitting the Running Knee Strike in the main event. On the RAW After Mania, Bryan gives Orton his rematch in the main event and makes him tap-out to The YES! Lock, but is then attacked by Big Dave and put through a table -- setting up the Extreme Rules main event pretty nicely.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

How is Orton facing Daniel Bryan in the main event if Orton dropped the belt to Batista?

[el bobbo]

Nah the crowd after Raw is the most vocal. The audio in a big stadium might screw the audio of the crowd being pissed.

Usually the sound gets dispersed at an outdoor stadium, but this is the Superdome, one of the loudest enclosed football stadiums in the country. Shit is going to get real loud real fast.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Georgia Dome had audio problems for mania27.

[Innovator]

If they go with Orton and Batista, they'll probably close the show with Taker/Lesnar

[#1-norm-fan]

Wyatt-Cena is also an option if Cena can go.

[voncouch]

Anybody feel like this hopeful fantasy booking is like trying to explain how your brother isn't a serial killer as more and more bodies are discovered?

"I know they've screwed him every month since Mania, but don't worry. Bryan will win at the Royal Rumble to get to headline Wrestlemania!"

They didn't even book him. The guy who won can't wrestle 10 minutes without sucking air like a black hole.

"Well, don't worry. The chamber is coming up! If he doesn't win, they'll screw him over and set him up for a triple threat match!"

He challenged Triple H and said that's what the fans want, even though it isn't. Also, Orton and Batista are promoing with no mention of Bryan.

"Okay, well...Wait, how about he fights HHH at Mania. Then earns himself a spot in the main event? That could work, right?"

Sure, but that doesn't look like that's what they're setting up. All signs point to Orton vs Batista to close the biggest show in the company for the past decade.

"Okay, true. But what about...err..."

[Schlomey]

The only way to get Batista over is to go straight up "fat girl" heel. But then your WM main event would be boring heel vs flashy heel....That doesn't work with WM main events......

Randy Orton has a horrid track record in WM main events...what the fuck are they even thinking...

[Hanso Amore]

Anybody feel like this hopeful fantasy booking is like trying to explain how your brother isn't a serial killer as more and more bodies are discovered?

"I know they've screwed him every month since Mania, but don't worry. Bryan will win at the Royal Rumble to get to headline Wrestlemania!"

They didn't even book him. The guy who won can't wrestle 10 minutes without sucking air like a black hole.

"Well, don't worry. The chamber is coming up! If he doesn't win, they'll screw him over and set him up for a triple threat match!"

He challenged Triple H and said that's what the fans want, even though it isn't. Also, Orton and Batista are promoing with no mention of Bryan.

"Okay, well...Wait, how about he fights HHH at Mania. Then earns himself a spot in the main event? That could work, right?"

Sure, but that doesn't look like that's what they're setting up. All signs point to Orton vs Batista to close the biggest show in the company for the past decade.

"Okay, true. But what about...err..."

This is the most logical post ive seen in days. This is perfect

[#1-norm-fan]

I don't even want Bryan to be the champion personally and I've been more critical than anyone of WWE's horrific booking over recent years and even I'm guilty of that. I mean... it just doesn't seem fathomable that this kind of ineptness can come from a professional company.

Like I said, I'm not for Bryan being champion but they've booked themselves so far into a corner that even if I were booking this show right now I'd have to say "Alright, Bryan's probably gotta be in the title match and win it. There's just no other way to save this shit."

Not only that but I love Orton and they've managed to make me not want him anywhere near the title match at WrestleMania. He's lost constantly. Whether it be to Cena and Bryan or fucking Cesaro and Kofi. He has no credibility as a champion left and the guy he's facing is just insanely overvalued by WWE right now. They're giving him a Rock-like "returning legend" push and he's just SO far from that level.

[Heyman]

Gertner's idea for Daniel Bryan to beat Triple H and then get into the World Title main event is still the best one I have seen.

I completely agree with this.

Bryan vs. HHH.

Bryan wins, he gets added to the main-event making it a triple threat.

If he loses, he doesn't get a title shot for a year.

[BigCrippyZ]

A year ago, I would've laughed at you if you said Daniel Bryan should main event WM. However, in the last 6-8 months, he's really grown on me, especially with the way they've booked him and the consistent crowd reactions he gets.

I feel like they should've booked CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan for the WWE WHC at WM30 and NOT just because it's every smark's wet dream. I actually like Orton's work most of the time and think he's done a decent job, especially given the way he's been booked to this point. However, I feel like Bryan and Punk have been getting the biggest and most consistent crowd reactions in the last 6-12 months.

Imagine if they turned Punk heel sometime around December/January. Have him align with HHH and the Authority, screwing Bryan out of the title, all in order to realize his dream of being WWE WHC and headling WM. Basically have Punk in Orton's role, the only difference is Punk plays the dick heel even better than Orton. You have the most anti-authority guy in the company aligning with the Authority. The only difference is Punk is not on Austin's level so the crowd would buy into it more, unlike WM17. Plus, they do it going into WM not at the event, so there's time to make some changes if needed.

They could have even had the same story to this point, with the Authority continually screwing and/or keeping Bryan out of the title/WM main event scene. Only with Bryan finally winning his WM main event spot before the date so you have some time to promote it as the singles match it deserves to be.

[el bobbo]

@BigCrippyZ

But Batista had a movie to sell... and he's bros with Triple H. That takes precedence over wrestling any day of the week.

[NormanSmiley]

or have HHH/Bryan close the show with the promise Bryan is going to get a title shot at extreme rules.


You can't close your biggest show of the year with a match that determines a #1 contender for a PPV the next month. It's wrestlemania not an episode of raw.

the whole first match ,gets you into the last match formula worked at RR for Lesnar and for bret hart at wmX. Go with it. it's all you got at this point, as charisma is right in that DB has to close the show

#1wwf guy said it best, you have painted yourself into this corner that it is the only option and will set up nicely where a Batista authority stooge replaces Orton after mania gets the title off Bryan and he can chase it all the way into a RR win and another mania title win at 31. just Repeat 1998 with DB playing the role of SCSA and HHH playing VKM

[BigCrippyZ]

They really have screwed themselves, especially if the plan IS to NOT put Bryan in the main event and it stays that way. Orton vs Batista will be fun to watch, only because the crowd is going to absolutely shit all over that match.

I could honestly see them ordering a last minute Bryan run in or something just to try and save it.

[XL]

They should pipe in reactions during the Orton-Batista Main Event. That would be great.

[Droford]

I'm going to laugh if they put Bryan in the main event and he ends up getting Boootista Booombed and Bootista pins him.

[Theo Dious]

The problem with the idea of "Bryan vs HHH for a shot in the main event" is that there is no way, no possible way that the Bryan/HHH match would ever in any universe hold a candle to the ensuing triple threat. Although the notion of Bryan basically going over Evolution in one night would be a powerful one.

[Lock Jaw]

I'm going to laugh if they put Bryan in the main event and he ends up getting Boootista Booombed and Bootista pins him.

In 13 seconds

[Theo Dious]

Also if they go with the whole idea, then HHH absolutely has to provide Bryan with a savage sledgehammer beating after the match to supposedly put him out of it. ALSO, if this becomes a thing, it needs to be done by Vince to spite HHH.

[Theo Dious]

In 13 seconds

With Orton still posing on the ropes.

[Mr. Nerfect]

How is Orton facing Daniel Bryan in the main event if Orton dropped the belt to Batista?

Oh, they are separate scenarios.

Scenario 1: Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H; Randy Orton vs. Batista; matches stay separate and Bryan/Triple H or Taker/Lesnar headlines over boo-fest WWE Title match.

Scenario 2: Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H, Bryan wins and earns title shot; Orton vs. Batista becomes Triple Threat and closes show.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Lol it'd be so great if they do set up that stipulation for Bryan vs Triple H, and Triple H beat Bryan and subsequently entered the title match and won that. Just to piss off smarks, that'd be so worth it.

[Lock Jaw]

James Steele would expire

[Corporate CockSnogger]

It could all have been one big plot to reform Evolution and get the title back on Triple H.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Honestly, seeing people spazz out over stuff that happens in wrestling is 200% more entertaining than any wrestling match or angle. The most entertaining thing to happen with regards to wrestling in years is that video of SlickyTrickyDamon after the royal rumble.

[Mr. Nerfect]

You can't close your biggest show of the year with a match that determines a #1 contender for a PPV the next month. It's wrestlemania not an episode of raw.

the whole first match ,gets you into the last match formula worked at RR for Lesnar and for bret hart at wmX. Go with it. it's all you got at this point, as charisma is right in that DB has to close the show

#1wwf guy said it best, you have painted yourself into this corner that it is the only option and will set up nicely where a Batista authority stooge replaces Orton after mania gets the title off Bryan and he can chase it all the way into a RR win and another mania title win at 31. just Repeat 1998 with DB playing the role of SCSA and HHH playing VKM

You can if you leave it to a fan vote.

"Which match do you want to see headline WrestleMania XXX?

A) Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker: The historic battle for the streak

B) Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H: Months in the making

C) Randy Orton vs. Batista: WWE World Heavyweight Championship

D) Bray Wyatt vs. John Cena: A battle for the era"

I'd actually personally leave Wyatt vs. Cena out of the voting, because I really want to see Wyatt win this match and if this closes, I think the show will end on a sour note. The Undertaker is set to defeat Brock Lesnar, Daniel Bryan will beat Triple H and the fans are going to have fun shitting on whoever is the WWE World Heavyweight Champion anyway.

At this point, the WWE should probably consider turning Randy Orton face. I mean, he's lost so much that he's almost an underdog in any situation he is in. Batista is so disdained at the moment that he really should just turn on the WWE Universe and rip into them about how he's rich and can bang all their girlfriends. Orton can remain in character, point out that the fans turned on him for Daniel Bryan, but they're going to be cheering when he beats Batista at WrestleMania, because while Batista had a hissy-fit and quit because he couldn't beat John Cena, Randy Orton beat Cena to become the Champion of Champions.

Why would they even have this open for voting? Isn't next year's WrestleMania supposed to be interactive? It could be a trial run for that concept. The Authority could openly acknowledge that Orton vs. Batista hasn't been capturing imaginations like they think it should, and while it would be unfair to strip Batista of his title shot since he earned it, they have reservations about it headlining WrestleMania.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The problem with the idea of "Bryan vs HHH for a shot in the main event" is that there is no way, no possible way that the Bryan/HHH match would ever in any universe hold a candle to the ensuing triple threat. Although the notion of Bryan basically going over Evolution in one night would be a powerful one.

I'm not sure I agree with that. The crowd is going to be absolutely RABID for Daniel Bryan at WrestleMania. Can you imagine him doing his chest kicks spot and winding up the big roundhouse to the head on Triple H? Can you imagine the heat if Triple H boots Bryan in the gut and actually manages to hit a Pedigree? Can you imagine the crowd popping when Bryan finally gets Triple H in the YES! Lock, but Triple H manages to get to the ropes? Can you imagine the heat when Triple H pulls out a sledgehammer and tells the referee not to disqualify its use? Can you imagine the pops when Bryan kicks out of a sledgehammer to the gut and a second Pedigree, and Triple H sells it like he's finally realized he's in there with the real deal? Can you imagine the pops when Bryan snaps and curb-stomps the living fuck out of Triple H's head? Can you imagine the "YES!" chants as Bryan lines up the Running Knee Strike?

Bryan vs. Triple H will be absolutely EPIC! You put that in the first main event slot in the show. So it would go after you've done your Tag Team Title match, your "cram everybody on the card match," etc. This is where the card kicks into high gear and you've basically got John Cena, Daniel Bryan, The Undertaker, Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton and Batista being showcased. Oh, and the Divas Match as a cooler. And no doubt a comedy segment featuring the likes of Mick Foley, Santino Marella, Emma, Fandango and the like. You know? That spot. Bryan beats Triple H in an epic moment to kick off the main events.

Then they can do some angle where Bryan is attacked backstage. Maybe a stage-hand can approach Daniel Bryan in a backstage interview and say that Brie's in trouble. Bryan is confused and heads to where she was meant to be found, when a group of guys in masks flank Bryan from behind. Or it could be Kane. Bryan can then go and get checked up by medical personal, Brie can come in and the doctor can tell him that he's not medically cleared. Bryan tells the doctor that this is WrestleMania. This is his dream. This is his LIFE! He is going out there and becoming the new WWE World Heavyweight Champion no matter what. "YES! YES! YES!" Brie looks concerned, but wishes her future husband luck.

Daniel Bryan makes it out for the main event and they do the super-special ring introductions. Bryan will be the only guy cheered properly. The match is the best Triple Threat you can imagine between these three, and likely includes some spots like the referee bump as Bryan blasts someone with the Running Knee Strike and has the match won. Ric Flair then runs down in a referee shirt, and Bryan seems to know that there is no point to even thinking he is going to be fair. Bryan gets a slow two count on the guy he just pinned. Bryan confronts Flair and Ric is all "It was two! WOOO!" Bryan then kicks Flair in the head and we get a Flair flop at WrestleMania. Hulk Hogan then comes down in a referee shirt and counts the final fall of the match, when Bryan manages to pin Orton after having kicked out of an RKO and a Batista Bomb at different points in the match. Hogan raises Bryan's hand as he has finally become the WWE World Heavyweight Champion. Hogan poses with Bryan for a little bit, but then leaves Bryan to have his moment alone and with his fans.

[Droford]

Lol it'd be so great if they do set up that stipulation for Bryan vs Triple H, and Triple H beat Bryan and subsequently entered the title match and won that. Just to piss off smarks, that'd be so worth it.
Finger poke of doom 2.0

[el bobbo]

If they didn't unify the WWE and WHC titles out of an act of desperation in December, do you think they'd be in this mess? Batista could have still won the Rumble and challenged for the WHC title at WM against whomever would have had it while Bryan could have been booked to win the WWE title at WM.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I've thought about that a little bit. To be honest, I could have seen them doing John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan for the World Heavyweight Championship.

[#1-norm-fan]

They would have unified the titles at Mania if they didn't do it at TLC. It needed to happen. Would they be in THIS mess? No. They'd be in a different mess though with there being a shitty situation where there's no top champion.

[Theo Dious]

They would have unified the titles at Mania if they didn't do it at TLC. It needed to happen. Would they be in THIS mess? No. They'd be in a different mess though with there being a shitty situation where there's no top champion.

They went years without that being a shitty situation. Nobody was talking about the shitty situation when Benoit and Gurrerro closed out WMXX and good God that was ten years ago I am so fucking old.

[#1-norm-fan]

It was always a shitty situation. And people constantly talked about it.

[#1-norm-fan]

Paul Heyman summed it up well when Lesnar returned to proclaim himself the #1 contender to the title. He basically said that Lesnar didn't really concern himself with the titles until he had the opportunity to be THE champion and not just one of the champions. That's exactly how it felt for the past 10 years. A bunch of guys fighting to be just a champion and no one fighting to be THE champion. It made every title match twice as inconsequential. "Meh. I'll just go after the other title then."

[Droford]

I said somewhere else shortly before TLC that they'd regret doing the unification then..

Imagine if they did Vengeance style with two title matches early on the card and the unification as the Main Event..

[XL]

What little optimism I have left tells me that there's no way they drew attention to Batista's reaction and still deliver Orton vs. Batista straight up.

There's still hope for the Triple Threat.

[The Rogerer]

They went years without that being a shitty situation. Nobody was talking about the shitty situation when Benoit and Gurrerro closed out WMXX and good God that was ten years ago I am so fucking old.I never recovered from the brand split and stopped watching for about 10 years. It was shit.

[CSL]

I would prefer the stipulation for the Triple H/Daniel Bryan match to be that if Bryan wins, he gets a title match. Only on RAW the following night against the Batista/Orton winner. WrestleMania will draw big anyway. The atmosphere for that title match in front of that post-Mania hardcore crowd would top Punk/Cena at MITB 2011. And it would probably pop the ratings also. He might not get his grand WrestleMania moment but it'd be way more fun. There'd probably be more anticipation for that than Mania itself from a TV/PPV audience pov.

[Swiss Ultimate]

I would prefer the stipulation for the Triple H/Daniel Bryan match to be that if Bryan wins, he gets a title match. Only on RAW the following night against the Batista/Orton winner. WrestleMania will draw big anyway. The atmosphere for that title match in front of that post-Mania hardcore crowd would top Punk/Cena at MITB 2011. And it would probably pop the ratings also. He might not get his grand WrestleMania moment but it'd be way more fun. There'd probably be more anticipation for that than Mania itself from a TV/PPV audience pov.

I think that could go either way. I think the fans would in fact be happy for Bryan either way, but if he's not in the Orton/Batista match the fans will probably shit all over it. Does the WWE want to have their World Title shit on at the biggest show of the year so they can get a giant ratings boost on Monday?

Orton and Batista could even have an amazing match, but the fans are already biased against it.

If Bryan wrestles twice that's two almost guaranteed good reactions. It's like how Foley winning the title went over well, but the matches themselves weren't really that impressive. Bryan could stink up the ring and they'd still cheer like crazy when he won.

[Brigstocke]

If the Bryan/HHH match didnt have Bryan earning a shot on the night and I had a ticket I would encourage anyone who would listen to turn their back on the Orton /Batista match

[CSL]

I wasn't really speaking from a logical pov (at least where the Mania title match is concerned) more just what I personally would like to see. That said, they'd still have 5 weeks to get the crowd on board with Orton/Batista to an extent plus being able to put Taker/Brock on last. If it was known Bryan was going to get his moment/he beats Triple H earlier in the show and the crowd still shit on a title match not in the main event spot just because it's Orton/Batista, I'm more inclined to think fuck that idiotic section of fans more than anything. But I don't run a gigantic wrestling empire.

[Swiss Ultimate]

I'm guessing though that these are the same types of fans that ruined Goldberg VS. Lesnar, which should have been epic.

[Ruien]

Can out Undertaker vs. Lesner on last. This works especially if it is Undertakes's last match. Main event Mania, lights go out after the match, and when they comeback on Undertaker is gone. Would be a epic way to end Mania and Undertaker's career.

[Ruien]

And the crowd won't shit on the Undertaker and his match.

[CSL]

I'm guessing though that these are the same types of fans that ruined Goldberg VS. Lesnar, which should have been epic.

indeed. See: Orton/Cena @ the Rumble. Quality match with a finish that would have gotten an even better reaction if they'd have just gone with it from the beginning instead of being too busy acting like dickheads from the moment the bell rang because they thought they knew better/what was going to happen.

[CSL]

#longsentence

[el bobbo]

Jesus Christ, they pretty much traded CM Punk, one of the most over characters in the business, for Batista, someone they thought would be a huge face but is now getting the highest level of X-Pac heat ever.

[The Rogerer]

Orton and Batista could even have an amazing match, but the fans are already biased against it.The match would be so amazing, it would take Batista's breath away.

[#1-norm-fan]

So it would go more than 2 minutes?

[el bobbo]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/fUis9yny_lI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Theo Dious]

It was always a shitty situation. And people constantly talked about it.

Yeah all those Benoit and Gurrerro fans whose big favorites never would have been champion without the split and 2 world titles, yeah they were really pissed. Kurt Angle fans who got to see him main event WM19, yeah they were totally pissed. The people who were constantly talking about it fell squarely into the "haters gonna hate" category.

[#1-norm-fan]

There's a reason they wouldn't have gotten the title without it being split in two. Because it brought down the prestige of both enough to where you didn't need to be a major star to win it. You just admitted to that by saying the two guys holding the titles never would have been champion without the titles being split in two. How in the hell is bringing down the prestige of titles so that MORE GUYS can realistically hold it a good thing? lol

[Mr. Nerfect]

indeed. See: Orton/Cena @ the Rumble. Quality match with a finish that would have gotten an even better reaction if they'd have just gone with it from the beginning instead of being too busy acting like dickheads from the moment the bell rang because they thought they knew better/what was going to happen.

I normally agree with you, and I enjoy reading your idea of Daniel Bryan getting his title shot on RAW the next night. I think they could even drag it out until Extreme Rules or later (make the fans absolutely SALIVATE for it -- the moolah is in the chase), but I enjoyed hearing the fans shit all over Cena vs. Orton, despite the quality of the match being, as you implied, quite good.

People didn't want to see Cena vs. Orton again. If you're going to put forth something your fanbase doesn't want to see, you're going to get shit for it. The hard line seems to be in convincing the people who plunk down money for PPV that guys like Daniel Bryan and CM Punk are worth investing in. Well, that could have been achieved by actually sending the message that they aren't second-rate players all the time. This seemed to happen more with CM Punk during his run as WWE Champion than it is with Daniel Bryan today, to be fair (Bryan's overt criticisms from The Authority are part of a storyline). But if you want Johnny Casual to put down money for Daniel Bryan stuff (and considering that Daniel Bryan seems to have a new t-shirt every two months, I'd say that something is working), then I think sending the message that he can close the deal is definitely the right one to take. They did that at Elimination Chamber effectively, in my opinion, but main events between a combination of Orton/Cena/Batista at this point in time just aren't doing it for live crowds.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I guess my point there is: Why should people cheer for something they don't want to see?