Overdone Pushes That Annoyed You

[hb2k]

For this week's podcast we're taking a look at examples throughout history where certain guys were pushed far beyond their limitations, and want to know about those particular instances that actually annoyed you as a viewer and why. This can manifest itself as:

a) A terrible wrestler you couldn't stand getting a spot they shouldn't have.

b) An acceptable midcard act being ruined by being spotlighted too much.

c) A badly executed push for a talented guy.

Either way, what is an example of a really aggressive promotional push you couldn't stand, and why did it annoy you? As always we'll be reading the best examples on the show (which will be up this weekend) and crediting you accordingly. So what's your pick?

EDIT - The show discussing your candidates for overdone pushes is now online and available to listen to at the following link: http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean.com/mf/play/qtizxc/SCGRadio44-OverdonePushes.mp3

[road doggy dogg]

Prepare for a flood of "Roman Reigns 2015" posts

[Mercenary]

Goldbreg plain and simple

[Ultra Mantis]

Triple H during his super heel run, when he had a 20 minute monologue every week and always got the upper hand.

[screech]

Rey Mysterio as World Champion, though I'll exclude the Rumble/title win because Eddie. I could never buy Rey as the champ.

Upper midcarder who gets the occasional shot? Fine, he was certainly over enough to warrant that spot.

But the top guy of the brand? Not even a little bit.

[Big Vic]

Triple H during his super heel run, when he had a 20 minute monologue every week and always got the upper hand.Hard to beat that.

Hmmmm, how about Brian Knobbs & Jerry Sags in TNA in early 2010, had no idea why they were given a push like they were worth ANYTHING.

[screech]

They won the tag titles, right?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Zack Ryder. I remember enjoying him on the ECW brand, and I thought his social media efforts were admirable. He built a fanbase without even being on television the likes of which hadn't previously been seen. I was excited that WWE seemed to actually be listening to the fans...

...but then he was made to look like a gigantic douche bag pretty much every time he was on TV. He was absolutely cringeworthy. I want to say it was because the material he was given to work with was terrible, but his performances weren't helping either. It was almost as if WWE was trying to tell us that we shouldn't root so hard for the guy and that they were right about not pushing him the whole time. I'm not sure where the blame should fall here, but I'm glad it's all over regardless.

[Rammsteinmad]

Pretty much most hosses who came in and were pushed to the main event. Heidenreich, Kozlov, Khali etc. Granted, some of these guys, once depushed to the mid-card scene, found their niches and became pretty entertaining.

[Emperor Smeat]

Sheamus and Big Show in general.

Big Show mainly because all of his recent pushes have fallen flat really fast or could have benefited someone else with that spotlight. Like the WWE trying to get the "Yes" chant be with him or him constantly squashing Rowan for no real reason.

Sheamus mainly because I can't stand him whenever he's a face after a while. He's basically won almost everything possible but barely feels like any of it was memorable. One of those cases where the WWE forces or thinks he's way more popular than he should be just because he's one of their handpicked stars.

[Big Vic]

They won the tag titles, right?
They kept beating "Team 3D".

I think they were gonna win the titles until they got fired for pissing off a spike exec.

[Simple Fan]

Daniel Bryan's WM30 push. Don't understand why so many people like the dude. He is bland in the ring in my opinion and his mic skills are horrible. That damn yes chant is annoying as hell and in no way should he ever had won the WWE World Heavyweight Championship. Him beating HHH and then going on to beat Randy Orton and Batista was the biggest joke ever. I'm not glad he is hurt but happy that he is not on my TV every week. Him as the IC champ I was good with but pushing him to the WWE title just pissed me off and almost turned me off the product.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Somebody's gotta say it: Roman Reigns. No explanation needed.

[Ruien]

Roman was not over done in the least. The only problem with Roman's push was people acted like they were 5 years old when Daniel Bryan lost and took it out on him.

[Big Vic]

I kept thinking "If they put the title on Roman now and try to keep him as a face they will completely ruin their plans of having him be the next John Cena due to the huge amount of heat he will be getting."

[Big Vic]

Daniel Bryan's WM30 push. Don't understand why so many people like the dude. He is bland in the ring in my opinion and his mic skills are horrible. That damn yes chant is annoying as hell and in no way should he ever had won the WWE World Heavyweight Championship. Him beating HHH and then going on to beat Randy Orton and Batista was the biggest joke ever. I'm not glad he is hurt but happy that he is not on my TV every week. Him as the IC champ I was good with but pushing him to the WWE title just pissed me off and almost turned me off the product.
I like him in the ring, it made 100% storyline sense from him to win at mania, that's why I was rooting for him to do so.

[Theo Dious]

Lex Luger. I was absolutely appalled when the flouffy-haired muscle guy who barely looked like he belonged in WCW chartered the Lex Express and crashed it into the main event scene.
Michal Cole in his heel run. I feel like someone in creative just though it was amazing and didn't realize that the whole concept made anuses bleed the world over.
Tensai. He wouldnt have looked like a threat even if we hadn't recognized him as the one-time hip hop hippo.
Vader. I may be lynched for this in this environment but he never struck me as a credible heel. He looked to me like someone had overinflated a sweaty 8-year old fat kid with a bicycle pump and stu k a mask on him. The only way he ever struck me as scary was the "rawr I'll sit on you" way. He also constantly looked blown up the second he came through the curtain.

[Hanso Amore]

What Vader were you watching. he was a 6 foot 5 350 pound pro football player. Not sure how that isnt credible. And it was in a time where not everyone had the builds of today. Maybe you didnt like his WWF push for all of 2 months. He was out of shape by then.


Great Khali because....Well besides being big he couldnt move, talk, and had no moves.

[Hanso Amore]

james Storm in TNA....Guy is shit....Horrible....but he stuck around long enough to get a push on "name" and tenure

[Jazzy Foot]

Was never a fan of Daniel Bryan but people seemed to like him and well as now know that era appears to have come to an end

I was a huge Goldberg fan back in the day but in hindsight I do wonder if there was anything good about him as a wrestler or even his career.

Luger felt overrated at the best of times, had the look sure but not really sure he was ever that popular with the fans.

Great Khali had no talent whatsoever but as a "big guy" there was very little else to do with him except make him dominant and get the strap on him. Being Indian it probably helped WWE expand/consolidate their popularity in the Indian market too.


Most undeserving champion/superstar of all time? Jeff Jarett. He was never worthy of being a top draw and only in a WCW in such bad shape could he have been the top star.

[Wishbone]

Roman was not over done in the least. The only problem with Roman's push was people acted like they were 5 years old when Daniel Bryan lost and took it out on him.

That's not it at all. I actually liked Roman well enough, and I still think he can be halfway decent when he shuts up and kills things. However, to try and deny that he was greener than goose shit when they started his mega-push is just stupid. The dude wasn't ready at all and you know it. What they're doing with him now is what they should have been doing from day one.

As for a push that annoyed me (barring Roman) I'd have to go with Sheamus' face push. I love Sheamus. Hell, he's one of my favorites on the roster right now, but whatever the hell they thought they were doing with him when he turned face was fucking ridiculous. I'm not even saying Sheamus should never be a face, but if you're gonna have him play a face it'd have to be something more akin to face Randy Orton than the Irish Cena we got.

[Ruien]

You honestly believe that is Daniel Bryan did not comeback until the day after Mania Roman would have been getting booed out the building at every event post rumble?

[James Steele]

"Wildcat" Chris Harris' main event push in TNA. You could argue it ruined his career when they fucked it up horribly. The only thing of note he did after that was his feud with "Cowboy" James Storm (my favorite TNA match ever is their Texas Deathmatch at Sacrifice 07) but even that feud had the god awful blindfold cage match. Then, he infamously went to WWE for 2 weeks looking like he had eaten James Storm.

Jeff Jarrett as a major badass heel in WCW and TNA. Like Mike Graham said on a WWE DVD once, "He broke thousands of guitars but never drew a dime."

AJ Styles being yo-yo booked for his entire TNA run. He would be pushed to the moon as the embodiment of TNA and then he'd job out to a WWE run-off and be somebody's lackey only for him to break away and repeat the cycle over and over. AJ Styles being jobbed out and dropping the title to RVD on iMPACT and then becoming Ric Flair's bitch was the last straw for me with TNA. I haven't watched it regularly since.

I get a lot of flack by some for hating TNA, but I watched it regularly until 2010 when Hogan & Bischoff jobbed out AJ Styles to RVD and completely destroyed everything about TNA that was unique and enjoyable. I was hooked on TNA when they brought in DDP for a month back in March 2005 around when iMPACT debuted on Fox Sports Net. The storylines were usually decent and coherent, but they completely botched the main events. The matches and talent were good enough to put up with the eye-rolling you'd do when Jeff Jarrett won. Jeff Jarrett thought he was Triple H when he was really just Billy Gunn. When Hogan/Bischoff came in, they ruined all of the positives TNA had and made the negatives even worse. Pretty much everything during that era of TNA's main event was fucking brutal. Even after they left, you get stupid shit like them blatantly ripping off hot WWE acts by making Austin Aries (CM Punk Lite) and Eric Young (Daniel Bryan Lite) the World Champ. Let's not forget that completely random Chris Saban World Title reign.

I also feel that TNA ever pushing Jeff Hardy in the main event after his bullshit at Victory Road 2011 is overdone and irresponsible. He's a terrible person and an overrated wrestler who has proven repeatedly he can't be trusted in that position in a company without leadership.

[KIRA]

Ryback initially because we had seen this shit before I saw absolutely nothing of worth in the guy certainly nothing that made him a viable challenger for CM Punks title.

I was annoyed by HHH steamrolling over completion and 20 min promos every week. But it turned to hatred after he beat Booker T. To this day I think that shouldn't have happened especially the way they played up Booker's troubled background and how he rose above that and played it against Hunters quasi racist rich snob. It could've been a real story of triumph and instead the match had a shit finish with Triple H retaining.

[James Steele]

The only win of Triple H's I agree with others about during that period.

[KIRA]

The only win of Triple H's I agree with others about during that period.

I figured you did. It just made 0 sense for Booker to lose that one.

[Bad News Gertner]

Ron Simmons winning the World Title in WCW

Bad enough that a mildly over face wins your top title, but then you book him at Halloween Havoc in a match for the title against the Barbarian? Typical early 90's WCW nonsense. Bill Watts was trying to recreate the success he had with JYD in Mid-South and it failed miserably with Ron Simmons shoe-horned into that role.

[Jazzy Foot]

Ron Simmons winning the World Title in WCW

Bad enough that a mildly over face wins your top title, but then you book him at Halloween Havoc in a match for the title against the Barbarian? Typical early 90's WCW nonsense. Bill Watts was trying to recreate the success he had with JYD in Mid-South and it failed miserably with Ron Simmons shoe-horned into that role.

With Simmons I think it was more the "emotional" aspect of having the first African-American champ that made it a big deal. However, I felt the hype wore off having him drop the belt less than 5 months later to Vader. This was really the issue with WCW through the 90s that nobody really held the belt for long enough to be a truly dominant or memorable champion and having someone drop the belt on PPV or nitro and then regain it days later just made the credibility of the title sink further even though Arquette and Russo holding the belt was the lowest of the low.

I mean there was Sting V DDP on Nitro, they wrestled a classic match one of the best on Nitro IMO and was the only highlight in the post-fingerpoke era. Sting wins the title we're all happy. Then less than 2 hours later....he loses the title to DDP. Talk about anti-climax.

As we debated elsewhere I felt the Goldberg streak was perhaps ended way too early but the manner of the defeat was credible i.e. a dominant face and perhaps not winning cleanly. I keep saying my "dream scenario" would have been for Goldberg to have held the belt for more than a year up to Starrcade 1999 and dropped it to a face like Chris Benoit. It would have not only restored the belt's credibility but people would have been tuning into to see how long Goldberg could go on and also building Benoit into the top face and the build-up to them eventually squaring off.

[Jazzy Foot]

It's stating the obvious but the fact WCW relied so heavily on massaging the egos of it's bigger name ageing draws over younger rising talents meant that it was no surprise that the likes of Jericho, Guerero and Benoit and even Wight would jump ship. With Paul Wight like Khali, there is really only so much you can do with a giant before the storylines start becoming tedious and perhaps it was time for him to move on. The other three never got the praise they deserved by WCW and it's a shame because I was pumped when Benoit won the belt but then deflated instantly when he left. Just shows you how stupid people were behind the scenes to not be in tune with what people wanted.


I guess that then justifies the push Daniel Bryan received post 2010 though I've never taken to him: WWE listening to the fans. But I'd have much rather watched Daniel Bryan v Brock Lesnar at WM 31 than Reigns v Lesnar, worst WM main event since WM 2000 and Rollins cashing in was its only saving grace.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I dunno man. That Reigns/Lesnar match was pretty bad ass.

[Jazzy Foot]

What do you all think of Sid Eudy? Namely his championship wins in WCW? Always a fan of his and imo he is a legend and deserves an eventual HoF induction but I felt his title reigns were at best underwhelming and given the downward path WCW was already on, it went unnoticed?


Dare I say this I wouldn't complain to Goldberg being inducted in the WWE HoF one day but 15 minutes at the top in WCW and 15 minutes in WWE doesn't compare with the years of service the likes of Hall, Nash, even Sid and Vader and Booker T gave.

Rather Goldberg in there than Rikishi.

[Jazzy Foot]

I dunno man. That Reigns/Lesnar match was pretty bad ass.

I don't from where I was sat, not far from the front inside Levis Stadium, it seemed like Reigns was out of his depth in terms of moves, technique, timing of moves etc it was almost as if Lesnar was constantly suplexing him in order to get him to wrestle. A bit like a midfielder constantly passing the ball to the striker who fails to score in an open net (in Football/Soccer). Admittedly I haven't watched WM 31 since I attended it so I need to sit down and do that and maybe I might change my mind but it was a boring match imo and I was ready to make a quick exit when Rollins popped out.


With Reigns he may have the look but he's just a terrible wrestler and terrible on the mic and very one dimensional and hardly endearing to the fans. I wouldn't be surprised if he wins the title at some point maybe by the end of this year who knows but he isn't "the future" as it were. Frankly, I'm disappointed Bray Wyatt is being put into a feud with him as Wyatt deserves to be feuding with someone much, much better and challenging for the title. I secretly hoped when Wyatt appeared at MITB he was to be the "mystery contender" and win the briefcase. I feel WWE have dropped the ball with someone whom I consider to be a very talented wrestler and great character and performer on the mic and if WWE don't do something soon-ish, the potential to build him into superstar may fade very quickly.

Given Bryan is as good as finished and WWE were prepared to invest much time and effort in him, transfer that to Wyatt I say.

[Ruien]

I guess that then justifies the push Daniel Bryan received post 2010 though I've never taken to him: WWE listening to the fans. But I'd have much rather watched Daniel Bryan v Brock Lesnar at WM 31 than Reigns v Lesnar, worst WM main event since WM 2000 and Rollins cashing in was its only saving grace.

Really? You can't really believe this.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Nah man. That Lesnar/Reigns match was great.

[Jazzy Foot]

Really? You can't really believe this.

What was great about the match then? From what I saw it was just big brute throws around some dude for 20 minutes, Rollins cashes in and wins.

maybe if I had seen it at home it might have been more entertaining but it felt tedious as did the card. But perhaps I was deflated that Sting lost and the fact I was sunburnt and dehydrated, who knows.

[Lock Jaw]

Eugene.

Was a "fun" gimmick that "got over" and they pushed it to the moon, making him the main focus of the main storylines, despite Chris Benoit having just won the title. Found it really weird because instead of trying to put over their new champ they were putting all their efforts behind a dude with a "special" gimmick...

[DAMN iNATOR]

Khali winning that 20-man battle royal on SD! to win the then-vacant World Heavyweight Championship hss to be the worst thing that happened to it since David Arquette.

[Anybody Thrilla]

What was great about the match then? From what I saw it was just big brute throws around some dude for 20 minutes, Rollins cashes in and wins.

maybe if I had seen it at home it might have been more entertaining but it felt tedious as did the card. But perhaps I was deflated that Sting lost and the fact I was sunburnt and dehydrated, who knows.

Big brute throws around some dude for twenty minutes. Dude takes all big brute can throw and doesn't get put away. Some dude starts mounting some serious offense, potentially about to overcome big brute before he gets snaked by a slimy opportunist.

It's a classic wrestling story, man. Plus, it was brutal as fuck. Go watch it with commentary or something.

[#1-norm-fan]

Gonna go with Daniel Bryan, too. By the time the Royal Rumble came along, it was inevitable. They HAD to awkwardly change things up and put him in the main event at WrestleMania. It's the way they handled things to get to that point that was the problem.

Bryan's a great mid/upper midcard guy. It was pretty clear they knew he wasn't a guy who belongs on top. So instead of subtly moving him from the title scene into something else (maybe even a Triple H feud not focused so much on the title), they screwed him out of the title again... and again... and again... and again. Thinking after all that they could just... move on without him finally winning it.

People would have accepted him out of the title scene if Bryan had just had one rematch in September and then changed his focus. Instead they spent 6 months building up a story they didn't plan on finishing and the crowd wasn't gonna have it. It was just terribly planned out. You had a WrestleMania "feel good" moment but in the end they forced themselves into a situation of having a guy being pushed as "the man" who didn't belong there.

Benoit is another one. Though that one was planned from the start and then went horribly afterward.

[Fignuts]

I think it's important to remember that Reigns wasn't just being groomed to be a top guy. He was being groomed to be THE guy, and he was going to take that position until they decided to go with Rollins.

And it's a good thing they did, because he is nowhere near ready for that spot. I wouldn't even put him in the main event. We're talking a spot that only a few guys have held. Hogan, Rock, Austin, and Cena. Guys with charisma oozing out of every pore. Reigns is nowhere close to those guys in the charisma department. He's not even on the same planet. Every time he says something in an attempt to sound cool, it sounds like he's TRYING to sound cool instead of naturally being cool like his successors. It sounds like he's reading a line that was fed to him, which it probably was.

Without the charisma, all he has is his intensity, which at times is good, and believeable. But at other times, again, it doesn't feel natural. It feels like he's trying, instead of just being an intense badass like, say Goldberg or Ryback.

As far as in ring ability goes, I dunno. The other guys I mentioned aren't technical masters either, but by the time they got to the top, they were great at telling a story in the ring, and were masters of controlling the crowd. Reigns is still too inexperienced to do either of those things well.

So yeah. Good decision putting it on Rollins. Guy is great in the ring and plays an awesome chicken shit heel.

[Fignuts]

Goldberg was another one that was mishandled. Not that they pushed him too quick or anything, cause dude was on fucking fire. They practically had to push him.

But the way he was handed everything on a silver platter, and never went through "paying dues", definitely gave him a huge ego by all accounts. I mean there was no real way for him to traditionally pay his dues since he was red hot right from his first match, but I think they could have handled things differently backstage.

The whole Jericho thing never should have gone down the way it did, and the people in charge should have tried a little harder to get Goldberg to understand the benefits of working with Jericho, and maybe fucking explain how the wrestling business works.

[Bad News Gertner]

"Paying dues" is the most retarded nonsense ever. Almost everyone has an ego in wrestling. You have to. Also, who cares as long as they draw money.

[Bad News Gertner]

It's stating the obvious but the fact WCW relied so heavily on massaging the egos of it's bigger name ageing draws over younger rising talents meant that it was no surprise that the likes of Jericho, Guerero and Benoit and even Wight would jump ship. With Paul Wight like Khali, there is really only so much you can do with a giant before the storylines start becoming tedious and perhaps it was time for him to move on. The other three never got the praise they deserved by WCW and it's a shame because I was pumped when Benoit won the belt but then deflated instantly when he left. Just shows you how stupid people were behind the scenes to not be in tune with what people wanted.


I guess that then justifies the push Daniel Bryan received post 2010 though I've never taken to him: WWE listening to the fans. But I'd have much rather watched Daniel Bryan v Brock Lesnar at WM 31 than Reigns v Lesnar, worst WM main event since WM 2000 and Rollins cashing in was its only saving grace.

Reigns vs Lesnar was incredible.

[Wishbone]

You honestly believe that is Daniel Bryan did not comeback until the day after Mania Roman would have been getting booed out the building at every event post rumble?

Did I ever say that anywhere? No, no I did not. Of course Bryan coming back was what gave Reigns so much heat. Anyone who'd dispute that is a raging idiot.

Reigns was over with the fans for sure at that point. Nowhere near the level he should have been for what they wanted him to do, but he was very over. But guess who else was over as hell with fans? Zack Ryder.

Being over does not by any means equal "ready". Reigns wouldn't have gotten booed out of the building if Bryan hadn't come back but he'd still have been nowhere near where he needed to be to be "the man". His push was premature and completely mishandled, period.

[The Condor]

It's hard to argue with the HHH push of 2002-onward because it was just fucking annoying and his run in 2003 is what turned me off of the product for a good 7 years, the final straw being HHH/Nash Hell in a Cell.

However, HHH could still go for the most part at that time, but the 1999 heel push he received was just atrocious because barely anyone bought into it, and by the time he earned it/was ready in early 2000, he had already had 3 title reigns and 6 months of a bad main event push while the Rock feuded with Billy Gunn, The British Bulldog, Al Snow and Big Show while putzing around with the Rock and Sock Connection.

[Ruien]

Did I ever say that anywhere? No, no I did not. Of course Bryan coming back was what gave Reigns so much heat. Anyone who'd dispute that is a raging idiot.

Reigns was over with the fans for sure at that point. Nowhere near the level he should have been for what they wanted him to do, but he was very over. But guess who else was over as hell with fans? Zack Ryder.

Being over does not by any means equal "ready". Reigns wouldn't have gotten booed out of the building if Bryan hadn't come back but he'd still have been nowhere near where he needed to be to be "the man". His push was premature and completely mishandled, period.

How was it premature and mishandled besides for Bryan returning so soon? They were building him up for an entire year.

[Fignuts]

"Paying dues" is the most retarded nonsense ever. Almost everyone has an ego in wrestling. You have to. Also, who cares as long as they draw money.

Of course you have to have a certain amount of ego and arrogance to work in wrestling.

But letting a guy who is green as fuck do whatever the fuck he wants just because he is drawing money at the time, is extremely shortsighted, and bad for business in the long term.

Also, "who cares as long as they draw money" was probably the attitude wcw management took when all the top stars and their mothers were all in some kind of control of the booking in wcw, and that promotion is dead and gone while Vince, who runs a way tighter ship and puts people in their place, is still thriving after all these years.

[Fignuts]

How was it premature and mishandled besides for Bryan returning so soon? They were building him up for an entire year.

Really doesn't matter how you build him up, or for how long. If he doesn't have the talent to be there, then he's not ready.

And actually they really didn't do a very good job of building him up.

Being the ass kicker of the shield, and broke Kane's elimination record, which was a good start, but between that and the rumble win, he did nothing. Absolutely nothing of any signifigance. He had had a throwaway feud with Kane (fucking everyone has had a throwaway feud with Kane. It means nothing anymore.) and then he got hurt. Then he came back and won the rumble.

Most big time players have a long exciting journey to reaching the level of main eventer, and it makes seeing that wrestler win the championship really mean something. But Reigns didn't have that. He didn't have any memorable feuds, or have a solid run with the IC or US title. He was in a cool faction, and then all of a sudden he was just there, at the top of the card. That can work for world beaters like Goldberg or Ultimate Warrior (who still captured the Us and IC titles repectively in their meteoric rises.) but Reigns, while an intense personality, really isn't that guy.

[Wishbone]

Pretty much everything Fignuts said x10.

[Big Vic]

I was annoyed by HHH steamrolling over completion and 20 min promos every week. But it turned to hatred after he beat Booker T. To this day I think that shouldn't have happened especially the way they played up Booker's troubled background and how he rose above that and played it against Hunters quasi racist rich snob. It could've been a real story of triumph and instead the match had a shit finish with Triple H retaining.

The only win of Triple H's I agree with others about during that period.Disagree. Booker T wasn't elevated enough to win the title at that point, they shouldn't have brought race into it though.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Benoit is another one. Though that one was planned from the start and then went horribly afterward.

Which in turn led to the horrible first WHC run for Orton.

[Bad News Gertner]

Of course you have to have a certain amount of ego and arrogance to work in wrestling.

But letting a guy who is green as fuck do whatever the fuck he wants just because he is drawing money at the time, is extremely shortsighted, and bad for business in the long term.

Also, "who cares as long as they draw money" was probably the attitude wcw management took when all the top stars and their mothers were all in some kind of control of the booking in wcw, and that promotion is dead and gone while Vince, who runs a way tighter ship and puts people in their place, is still thriving after all these years.


There's wrestlers who have been around for years that you can say the sane thing about.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Orton winning the World Title felt right at the time. It was the follow-up that was fucked.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Rey Mysterio in 2006 takes the cake for me. I LOVED Rey and had since his WCW days. I always wanted to see him somehow, someway become the World Champ.

Then when they finally went for it, it was awful because it was really nothing more than Eddie Guerrero's death being exploited to the highest degree.</font>

[Mr. Nerfect]

The Rey push didn't sit well with me either. It just wasn't organic. The stuff with Randy Orton was also like...huh? If they wanted to push Rey Rey, he should have just gone straight against Kurt Angle.

Truth be told, given that the World Title had just been won by Angle in a Battle Royal, they should have just made the 2006 Royal Rumble for the vacant World Title and had Angle win it.

[drave]

The Rey push didn't sit well with me either. It just wasn't organic. The stuff with Randy Orton was also like...huh? If they wanted to push Rey Rey, he should have just gone straight against Kurt Angle.

Truth be told, given that the World Title had just been won by Angle in a Battle Royal, they should have just made the 2006 Royal Rumble for the vacant World Title and had Angle win it.

Same with Christian taking Edge's place in a ladder match. Could leave them both, really.

[Bad News Gertner]

King Kong Bundy's push in 86 leading up to WM2 was pretty atrocious. Zero build up to the match, Hogan won and that was pretty much it. Poor Paul Orndorff. Just peaked at the wrong time.

[Lock Jaw]

Same with Christian taking Edge's place in a ladder match. Could leave them both, really.

Nah, Christian's push wasn't overdone enough.

Would definitely have cut Edge's push in two to give some to Christian.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Christian had his own issues with Alberto Del Rio, so him going after the World Title made sense. What sucked was his booking on SmackDown afterwards. He really should have held the World Title until around Money in the Bank, scraping through by the skin of his teeth on his merits, before either a clean loss to Randy Orton pushed him over the edge, or he turned heel to keep the title.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I never posted it in here, but leading up to SummerSlam '11 I remember thinking that the Street Fight between Orton and Christian at SummerSlam (or whatever gimmick match theirs was) would have been the perfect time to introduce some heel muscle for Christian. I thought "Diesel would actually be pretty cool." We had last seen him in the Royal Rumble that year as portraying the Diesel character. It turns out Kevin Nash did return at that PPV, but to screw CM Punk over.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I do think Sheamus is immensely talented, but I feel that a lot of his pushes come at weird times. I don't think he was the best choice to win the 2012 Royal Rumble, or to win the WWE Title from John Cena at TLC '09 (that should have been Jack Swagger). And his WWE Title win during the Nexus stuff was kind of left field. I dunno -- I think he's talented and on paper should be a major star -- but feel that they've always gone about it at odd times.

[#1-norm-fan]

I remember Sheamus being built as a badass heel champ and then on an episode of Raw he was confronted by The Nexus backstage. Barrett flinched like he was gonna attack and Sheamus ran away like a little bitch yelling for Cena. It was the dumbest fucking thing ever.

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol remember when WCW all of a sudden put Kidman into a feud with Hogan? Oh my God was that awful.

[#1-norm-fan]

Didn't Kidman beat him too? lol

[Jazzy Foot]

Billy Kidman was wasted talent.

[rockman725]

You can't talk about annoying pushes without mentioning The Miz. Sorry, but he never should have been champion. Don't even think he should have EVER had a singles title, EVER..... Tag Titles, eh, I'm okay with because he had help to get over with Morrison & Big Show. But Miz as a solo act, don't buy it and never will.

[Stickman]

Edge, he bored me to tears in the ring and annoyed me on the mic. He was good dont get me wrong, but no where near great.

[DAMN iNATOR]

<font color=goldenrod>Rey Mysterio in 2006 takes the cake for me. I LOVED Rey and had since his WCW days. I always wanted to see him somehow, someway become the World Champ.

Then when they finally went for it, it was awful because it was really nothing more than Eddie Guerrero's death being exploited to the highest degree.</font>

Yeah, was fucked up. Let's all be completely honest here and just say it: WrestleMania 22 should've been Orton's time, not Rey's.

[Fignuts]

Billy Kidman was wasted talent.

He was a waste alright.

[Bad News Gertner]

Kidman was a white meat babyface. Nothing more.

[Bad News Gertner]

Didn't Kidman beat him too? lol

Lol sure did, after Mike Awesome powerbombed Hogan threw a table

[FourFifty]

I might be on the outskirts here, but I really dislike when a well established name goes from one company's main title scene to the next company's main title scene. There is a locker room full of people who have been working to get the second company's fans in the seats. I'm okay with someone getting into the upper-mid card, or even a non-title main event. I just don't like the idea of a locker room full of talent getting overshadowed to the equivalent of a truck full of money.

Note worthy exception to this- Flair's first WWF run.

[screech]

He was a waste alright.

Kidman was a white meat babyface. Nothing more.

His Shooting Star Press was sloppy as fuck, too, from what I remember.

[Jazzy Foot]

He was a waste alright.

Had they gone with a storyline where he was related to Tom Cruise's then wife, he might have been a main-event player.

[hb2k]

I want to thank everybody for the suggestions in this thread, we got to read many of them on the podcast, which is now available to listen to at the following link:

http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean.com/mf/play/qtizxc/SCGRadio44-OverdonePushes.mp3

Taking your suggestions for guys pushed way above their limitations throughout wrestling history, we talk about world champions that shouldn't have been such as Jeff Jarrett, Justin Credible and Ron Simmons, WCW nepotism with Erik Watts and Dustin Rhodes, as well as the use and talents of such individuals as Brutus Beefcake, Billy Gunn, Abyss, Hardcore Holly, Eugene, The Big Show, Alberto Del Rio, Sheamus and many more that you felt were given way too much. A really fun and entertaining show this week, check it out and let us know what you think~!

[Bad News Gertner]

I knew Justin Credible would come up and I've never understood why people thought he sucked. He was the last heel that I can remember really hating. I wanted Dreamer to beat him so badly. I thought Credible was fantastic.

[Shisen Kopf]

Kevin Sullivan as Hogan's main enemy in 1994/95. Always thought he sucked. Hated the faces of fear and the dungeon of doom. So much garbage back then

[Bad News Gertner]

You should do an episode on favourite wrestling toys/memorabilia that you own or owned.

[hb2k]

That's a pretty cool idea, good bit of nostalgia could come from that. Only thought is that there might be a visual element to some of it? I suppose it would be more about the stories about the toys/memorabilia than anything, so that would be pretty damn fun.

As for Credible, I see what you mean because it's not like he was awful, and in some respects he's the victim of bad timing with ECW hitting the skids in 2000 and them rushing the belt on him in somewhat less than the best possible way. But at the same time there is something missing with Justin, and it's noticeable in retrospect that the reactions to him as champion aren't at the level of guys who held the title previously. Was excited to see him the WWF in 2001, but alas...

[KIRA]

Disagree. Booker T wasn't elevated enough to win the title at that point, they shouldn't have brought race into it though.

Not elevated enough?

Explain if you could.

Unless my memory is wrong Booker was pretty over at that point and even so him beating Triple H would have elevated him especially considering the monster roll Triple H was on.

[KIRA]

His Shooting Star Press was sloppy as fuck, too, from what I remember.

It had a tendency to veer off course you really rolled the dice taking one from him.

[Theo Dious]

His Shooting Star Press was sloppy as fuck, too, from what I remember.

I'm seem to recall seeing him break his neck live with it. I never understood what anyone liked about him. He looked like a Bret Hart clone that someone shrank in the dryer.

[Stickman]

Rey mysterio always bugged me too because not once could I suspend belief enough to buy him as a credible threat.

[My Final Heaven]

I remember Sheamus being built as a badass heel champ and then on an episode of Raw he was confronted by The Nexus backstage. Barrett flinched like he was gonna attack and Sheamus ran away like a little bitch yelling for Cena. It was the dumbest fucking thing ever.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/SA-IUTTB5y0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

:lol: I laughed about 10 minutes straight when that happened, just seemed so out of left field for his character. I guess to his credit it was Sheffield that sent him running instead of Barrett.

This visual didn't help either:

http://i59.tinypic.com/qx2p14.jpg

[My Final Heaven]

Justin Credible is one of my alltime least favorites, I just never got how his character grew from Portugese Man-o-War~"quote->bad-ass new king of hardcore". You had a roster full of Dreamers, Sandmans, and Rhinos in old ECW - but nope, we had to make our Top Guy the puny Kliquester who looks like a Chav drugdealer for a while :lol:

O god, and how much did WCW play up that Kidman got that single win over Hogan. He may be the ultimate example of Right Time, Right Place. He married into a hot valet to grab himself some heat every time he came out, & he got maybe a 6 month run as a top heel because Vince Russo has a fetish for whiny little Smark-savvy guys.

And then they both came back to Vince, and they both reverted to whence they came: Cruiserweights :wave:

[NormanSmiley]

Jeff Jarrett as a major badass heel in WCW and TNA. Like Mike Graham said on a WWE DVD once, "He broke thousands of guitars but never drew a dime."






THIS!

[Bad News Gertner]

Justin Credible is one of my alltime least favorites, I just never got how his character grew from Portugese Man-o-War~"quote->bad-ass new king of hardcore". You had a roster full of Dreamers, Sandmans, and Rhinos in old ECW - but nope, we had to make our Top Guy the puny Kliquester who looks like a Chav drugdealer for a while :lol:

O god, and how much did WCW play up that Kidman got that single win over Hogan. He may be the ultimate example of Right Time, Right Place. He married into a hot valet to grab himself some heat every time he came out, & he got maybe a 6 month run as a top heel because Vince Russo has a fetish for whiny little Smark-savvy guys.

And then they both came back to Vince, and they both reverted to whence they came: Cruiserweights :wave:

I had ZERO idea that Credible was Aldo Montoya when Credible debuted. Was it mentioned on a show when Credible debuted?

Friggen Johnny Polo became Raven, so I don't know how you can hold that against Justin Credible.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, never got the Justin Credible hate. I mean, I never watched, but weren't people constantly on the dicks of the Impact Players and how exciting it was to see him in the WWE in 2001?

[Bad News Gertner]

Yeah. They were very easy to hate.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I always wanted to see more of Justin Credible in the WWE. He was doing stuff with X-Factor, then jumped to The Alliance because of his ECW ties, and they didn't really do anything.

[The MAC]

shawn michaels boyhood dream was vomit inducing.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Rey mysterio always bugged me too because not once could I suspend belief enough to buy him as a credible threat.

I know right? Angle and Orton should've been booked and allowed to put on a clinic in WM 22 and just bloen the damn roof off the AllState Center.

[DAMN iNATOR]

The Lesnar/Show title change at Survivor Series 2002 always baffled me. You build up Brock from early that year on to capture his 1st WWE Championship against Rock, and only gets ~3 months before dropping it to Big Show? I have more mixed feelings regarding the Show heel turn and him and Heyman swerving Lesnar and the fans. Show has always struck mebas a guy that never should've been turned face to begin with, because what's not to love about an angry 7', 500lb. tank wreaking havoc on everything and everyone? But then again it was nice to see him go back to doing that however temporary it may have been. I can't remember the exact length of time, but they've turned big guys like him and Kane and Mark so much that I almost can't even buy it when they do turn any of those guys one way or another.

[Johnny Vegas]

Well we know Lex Luger during the '93 season. I mean don't get me wrong, the Yokozuna Slam Competition bit was awesome, but i think that at the time they were just trying to get rid of Hulk and bring in someone to "replace" him.

HHH's run from '02 to '04 was just ridiculous. Booker should've won the title at WrestleMania because 1.) Had to put up with that semi-racist storyline that white guys think its the only way to put over some black wrestlers 2.) His push didn't feel "earned" because of the backing of the ENTIRE WWE family.

To me, its something about wrestlers organically winning. When Jeff Hardy won his first title, that moment had me "marking out" like i was back in the Monday Night Wars era.

[DAMN iNATOR]

RVD beating Cena in ONS 2 in 2006 was the best!

[Mr. Nerfect]

The Lesnar/Show title change at Survivor Series 2002 always baffled me. You build up Brock from early that year on to capture his 1st WWE Championship against Rock, and only gets ~3 months before dropping it to Big Show? I have more mixed feelings regarding the Show heel turn and him and Heyman swerving Lesnar and the fans. Show has always struck mebas a guy that never should've been turned face to begin with, because what's not to love about an angry 7', 500lb. tank wreaking havoc on everything and everyone? But then again it was nice to see him go back to doing that however temporary it may have been. I can't remember the exact length of time, but they've turned big guys like him and Kane and Mark so much that I almost can't even buy it when they do turn any of those guys one way or another.

The change was basically a way to turn Brock Lesnar face (since he was being cheered anyway). The story had been built with Heyman trying to steer Brock away from tough title matches against The Undertaker ("You can't beat him, Brock!"). When Brock beat The Undertaker (twice, and one of those times in the Cell, I believe), Brock proved that he was even better than Heyman thought. When Big Show came a-calling, Heyman told Brock "He's too big! You can't F5 him!". Brock would prove Heyman wrong, but Paul, being a wormy heel that had to be right, had insured that the monster he was losing control of would learn a lesson in humility.

The WWE Title would then be transitioned to Kurt Angle at Armageddon the month after, and Brock Lesnar would win the 2003 Royal Rumble, and their match was the true main event of WrestleMania XIX. It all made sense to me at the time.

[XL]

What do you mean by "the true main event"? It did go on last.

[Mr. Nerfect]

That's what I meant. It wasn't just "a" main event, but "the" main event. Sorry, I didn't mean "true" in a contrary sense.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Well, no matter what, I think Brock is just a TERRIBLE good guy...vanilla as fuck. He's meant to be sadistic. LOL, if you check his profile @ profightsdb.com, he actually wrestled Shannon Moore in mid-December 2002, and then again 364 days later in mid-December 2003. Like, what the shit?

And Show might not be the worst all-time World or WWE title holder but he's GOT to be in the top 10. At least my personal list, if nobody else's.

[Stickman]

I hate pushes like The Funkasouras. Like do they honestly think something like that will get over? I guess it just speaks to Vinces hard on for big men. It happens all the time. For example Tensai (or whatever Alberts revised name was), really? Really? Really?

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol it did get over.

[ron the dial]

did the funkasaurus or the funkadactyls get over?

[Bad News Gertner]

He got a pretty good reaction. It just had a short shelf life.

[drave]

I enjoyed the Tensai gimmick.

[#1-norm-fan]

did the funkasaurus or the funkadactyls get over?

He was definitely over before they fed him to Big Show. They should have rolled with him being a monster in the ring longer before making him a jobber. It worked.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They seemed to cut out the stuff that worked with Clay too. "Should I get him?!?" Lol.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I had and still have absolutely no desire to see Clay get a serious singles push in wrestling, but that fun gimmick put him in a paradigm where I think he worked and could have made a bit of money. Oh well.

[Lock Jaw]

I think those few weeks he had a "serious" feud with Adrian Neville in NXT he put on a good showing.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It wasn't bad, but I wasn't ready to buy into him right there and then.

[#1-norm-fan]

He could have had longevity in a Rikishi role if they kept booking him as a fun babyface who the fans could get behind to beat the shit out of any cocky heels that come along.

[#1-norm-fan]

Also, this was awesome...

https://wrestlinginsights.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/dolph_ziggler_explode_dead_brodus_clay_funkasaurus_headbutt_wwe_raw.gif

[hb2k]

Funkasaurus had a bit of Dusty in him at first with the mannerisms and I quite enjoyed his squashes, but they were very stop-start with him. Think he was off TV for a month right after his debut and returned at Mania out of nowhere in that dancing skit with tons of "Mommas".

[Stickman]

Vicky Guerrero was alaways a channel changer for me. So basically I changed the channel for a few years.

[Seth82]

Jeff Jarrett as a major badass heel in WCW and TNA. Like Mike Graham said on a WWE DVD once, "He broke thousands of guitars but never drew a dime."

which is funny coming from a guy who never left his daddy's promotion.

Mike Graham couldn't draw flies to a shit factory as Ricky Morton would say.

[Heyman]

Rey Mysterio milking Eddie Guerrero's death into a World title run greatly annoyed me. Rey Mysterio's main-event push would have been enjoyable for me had he not used Eddie's death as a way of drawing sympathy from the fans.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Vicky Guerrero was alaways a channel changer for me. So basically I changed the channel for a few years.

I dunno, I thought she made a fun "everybody loves to hate her" type heel in her later years with WWE, and she'd get fucking nuclear heat just about everywhere, too, which, at least in part, is probably what allowed her to stay on with the company for so long.


<iframe src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x9iyx8_vickie-guerrero-vs-santina-marella_sport" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Love that match, I don't give a fuck what anyone says.

[Bad News Gertner]

Vickie was amazing.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Fuck yes she was! I think people get too hung up on her looks, the scream she sometimes did as a manager/valet, and her infamous "Excuse Me!" line.

She realky is quite underrated, IMHO.

[Bad News Gertner]

A heel who gets over, but the IWC doesn't approve = X Pac heat.

[Savio]

Vicke was the best Female heel since.... forever.

[Stickman]

Was Vicky actually over or did she get nuclear boos because nobody could stand her as she was an overdone push that annoyed everyone?

[Big Vic]

She was over as a heel.

[ron the dial]

she was the most over heel in the company at some points. she was fantastic.

[Lock Jaw]

Would always love it when the fans would just boo so loud that she literally couldn't speak...

[#1-norm-fan]

Was Vicky actually over or did she get nuclear boos because nobody could stand her as she was an overdone push that annoyed everyone?

Both. She was horribly untalented. HORRIBLY untalented. She had no business performing in anything remotely considered "entertainment".

Being really terrible at your job gets you massive heel heat in wrestling nowadays though.

[Lock Jaw]

I didn't initially like her for those reasons, but I think by the time she got paired with Dolph Ziggler that "she got it" and I started to really enjoy her.