John Cena is the greatest WWE superstar of all time.

[Anybody Thrilla]

He really is. You can't flex on the kid. He's the man.

Refute it. You can't.

[loopydate]

Greatest superstar of his time, no doubt. All time is a harder case to make. He'd definitely be in the top 3-5 though.

[Ruien]

Debatable but he is in the top 5 easily.

[Sixx]

CONTROVERSIAL!

[slik]

Hulk Hogan is the greatest WWE Superstar of all-time.

While I like Austin and Rock more than Cena, Cena's had more longetivity than both, so he's probably ahead of them.

[Seth82]

certainly of his time.

Hulk Hogan & Bruno Sammartino for me are two greatest of all time.

[NormanSmiley]

These always feel like bating posts, much like a kobe v lebron v jordan argument. But this many posts in it's stayed fresh so,


The reason cena wont go down as goat is because too many detractors. Too many fans are anti the cena character,not the man, the character. He is the greatest of the last 10 years because thats been forced on us. Thats all weve been given. He was forced on us like hogan was. Not many fans appointed cena as the greatest.

Wrestling fans will always put a flair or hbk over cena from wrestling standpoint even though those two never had crossover success outside the ring.

And hogan,rock, austin had more crossover success that made them bigger than cena, so either side of the coin it's not gonna be john

[Sixx]

These always feel like bating posts, much like a kobe v lebron v jordan argument. But this many posts in it's stayed fresh so,


The reason cena wont go down as goat is because too many detractors. Too many fans are anti the cena character,not the man, the character. He is the greatest of the last 10 years because thats been forced on us. Thats all weve been given. He was forced on us like hogan was. Not many fans appointed cena as the greatest.

Wrestling fans will always put a flair or hbk over cena from wrestling standpoint even though those two never had crossover success outside the ring.

And hogan,rock, austin had more crossover success that made them bigger than cena, so either side of the coin it's not gonna be john

10 niggawatts

[Maluco]

I love him, think he is great in the ring and amazingly hard working, but he has been stale for years and years.

People can paint it however they want and talk about his time on top being so long, but numbers are down and that is not because of being on a down cycle, its because interesting things don't happen, and when they threaten to, WWE are quick to go back to the same old pattern.

Network expansion and a new age aside, he is the main man in an era where people aren't watching, many of which switched off long ago when it became obvious that there wouldn't be any new faces anytime soon.

IMO, he can't go down as the greatest of all time, because he is the only candidate in a poor era.

That is not Cena hating, cause I think he is great, but they have never evolved him and he has played his part (eg Nexus) on making bad decisions that have just continued te status quo.

[Big Vic]

In what aspect? Because during his reign on top the ratings are falling.

[NormanSmiley]

The one aspect he may be the greatest is company man. He may be the guy with the smallest ego.

[Damian Rey]

The smallest ego far and away was the Rock. The Rock constantly did the job. Cena, not so much. The decision Cena made on having the Nexus lose to him at Summer Slam was a prime example.

[Sixx]

The smallest ego far and away was the Rock. The Rock constantly did the job. Cena, not so much. The decision Cena made on having the Nexus lose to him at Summer Slam was a prime example.

That was his call?

Suuucks.

[NormanSmiley]

Elaborate on that demonrick, cena refused to lay dpwn to the nexus? I heard someone saying that cena was making a beef to keep the title on his bitch but that seemed minor, but he didnt want to job to the barrett nexus?


Only time I heard about rock putting ego first was refusing to work with shawn

[bigpoppapump]

Of all time....Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan are the greatest.

Of his time....Hate to say it, but it's true.....it's damn true. Cena is right up there with Austin & The Rock.

[Damian Rey]

Believe Jericho has confirmed it before.

[NormanSmiley]

I had such high hopes for the nexus.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Jericho and Edge talked about it during one of the very first eps of Talk is Jericho as both of them were in the match. They tried to talk Cena out of the "take a DDT on the floor and STILL come back to beat Gabriel and Barrett" as they felt it would make the Nexus look so weak to have the odds overcome in such a fashion in their first match.

Cena admitted after the match that he should have listened and gone for a more conventional ending. All 3 guys seemed to agree that Nexus should have gone over but it was likely Vince's call to have Cena win. The ending still sucked though.</font>

[The Condor]

It's hard to have this conversation because it's about persistent marketing, not like in legitimate sports wherein a performer actually proves and shows greatness. Essentially, Brock was supposed to be Cena in 2002 when they came in together but his personality didn't jibe with the business, so Cena got hot and was pushed. Vince picks who is the greatest at a given time, until recently when fans and social media combined the throw wrenches in his well oiled machine.

[drave]

RIP Crazy Edgar.

[NormanSmiley]

Agreed condor,vince presented us cena just like he did hogan

[Big Vic]

I think Kane has the smallest ego, just does what he's told.

[Damian Rey]

Wasn't Hogan already shit fucking hot before WWF? Swear it's been discussed countless times that Verne Gagne missed the boat on him over merch issues and all Vince did was snatch him up and let the money flow.

[Sixx]

Wasn't Hogan already shit fucking hot before WWF? Swear it's been discussed countless times that Verne Gagne missed the boat on him over merch issues and all Vince did was snatch him up and let the money flow.

Yah, Norman just insists Hogan was forced on us and whatnot, because Hogan leg dropped his mom. [citation needed]

[NormanSmiley]

Let me clarify, vince presented cena the same way as hogan where he is the protected top guy and nobody will get strong over hogan/cena as long as they sell tshirts to kids

[KIRA]

These always feel like bating posts, much like a kobe v lebron v jordan argument. But this many posts in it's stayed fresh so,


The reason cena wont go down as goat is because too many detractors. Too many fans are anti the cena character,not the man, the character. He is the greatest of the last 10 years because thats been forced on us. Thats all weve been given. He was forced on us like hogan was. Not many fans appointed cena as the greatest.

Wrestling fans will always put a flair or hbk over cena from wrestling standpoint even though those two never had crossover success outside the ring.

And hogan,rock, austin had more crossover success that made them bigger than cena, so either side of the coin it's not gonna be john

Ha you really think his divisiveness is gonna keep him from being considered one of the greats? LOL:rofl:

[NormanSmiley]

Im saying I would put john cena as greatest of the pg era, and I wouldnt put him in the top 10 of all time. And that my opinion means more than your chick name

[loopydate]

It's hard to have this conversation because it's about persistent marketing, not like in legitimate sports wherein a performer actually proves and shows greatness. Essentially, Brock was supposed to be Cena in 2002 when they came in together but his personality didn't jibe with the business, so Cena got hot and was pushed. Vince picks who is the greatest at a given time, until recently when fans and social media combined the throw wrenches in his well oiled machine.

I still think if Brock had been more open to the travel schedule, WWE would be an entirely different place. Brock has always had "it," but he hated the tour. Cena had slightly less of "it," but was willing to go the extra mile (and then some). If Brock had played the game, I honestly think his combination of size, skill, and presence could have made him the "legitimate" star WWE has wanted forever. Brock as THE guy would have changed everything.

[NormanSmiley]

I agree with this loopy, but would brocks mic skills ever gotten to a point where he could sustain it? Ive never thought they were awful but never been great either. Could it have been worked around?

[loopydate]

I think what he's doing now with Heyman suggests he could have. Paul is great, but for me the highlight of Monday's beatdown was the look on Brock's face when he decided "Yeah, you know what? Maybe I WILL go back and murder that guy." He shows little flashes of personality just from the way he carries himself that I think would make up for any shortcomings on the mic.

[Damian Rey]

Cena is the fucking man though. More so than Austin, or anybody after Hogan, really. Nobody in the modern sports entertainment platform has lasted this long, and compiled the run he has, other than Hogan. And even then, Hogan didn't last as long as Cena has. By the time Hogan was nearing the end of his run, he was already running out of steam.

Cena still has plenty of fireleft in the tank and is far better matches than Hogan ever did. Maybe he doesn't carry the same spectacle, but for a guy who works live tv 52 times a year and ever ppv, and is still as good if not better than he was ten years ago, he'd have to be one of the greatest.

[loopydate]

Yeah Cena is a WWE Mt. Rushmore guy, for sure. His character is bland as hell, but aside from Hogan and Austin, nobody has had a run like Cena. Now, the business itself is not in as good a place as it was for those two, so he suffers a bit from the "big fish in a small pond" issue, and the writers have done him no favors in terms of growths, but the things he's done cannot be refuted. Character bores me to tears, but I respect the hell out of the man.

[The Condor]

I think the main argument is that it isn't just Cena being great, but the entire business model that places him on a pedastal because of his track record. He has only been the guy for the past five years because they are afraid to try anybody else. Hence, past guys like Brock, Batista and Orton being pushed near the top lately.

[NormanSmiley]

Loopydate for the win.summed up perfectly. Close thread

[Emperor Smeat]

Disagree about him being the greatest of all time nor as being in the Mt Rushmore of wrestling but easily a 2nd tier candidate of greatness. Having a Hogan-like dominance run helps a lot while this year alone has shown how great he can be when he's motivated to prove something or put on amazing matches.

[Damian Rey]

Indeed. As far Brock is concerned, I think the guy that benefited most from Brock's departure was Batista. In an era of separate brands, where Cena was a great talker and great brawler in the ring, he was bound to get over and headline.

Batista, on the other hand, did not have the same look or presence as Brock, he wasn't anywhere near the athlete in the ring Brock was, and while heel Batista is great, his mic work was just ok.

Honestly feel has Lesnar not left, Batista may have still gotten a run but nothing like the one he did where there wa literally nobody to push.

[Heyman]

He really is. You can't flex on the kid. He's the man.

Refute it. You can't.



John Cena is definitely up there (easily Top 5 in my opinion, with Hogan, Austin, Rocky, and Bruno in there as well), but I think Hogan easily deserves the, "Greatest of all-time" moniker. Hogan meant just as much to kids back then as Cena does now, but Hogan took wrestling to an entirely new level. Hogan made put wrestling on the map. While Cena has done an admirable job of being the top guy over the past 10 years and keeping the WWE afloat, he didn't take the company to new heights like Hogan.


And for the record, my favorite guy is Stone Cold Steve Austin, and I think Austin has a legit claim for being the greatest of all-time as well. Austin took the wrestling industry to new heights just as Hogan once did.


Austin was the #1 guy during the #1 Attitude era. When you look back on Austin's career during 1997-2003, almost all of his feuds were 5 star calibre and ridiculously high profile. You can't say that about almost anyone else. Austin/Bret, Austin/Owen, Austin/HBK, Austin/Vince, Austin/Taker, Austin/Rock, Austin/HHH, Austin/Angle, Austin/Jericho-Benoit, etc.


In terms of high profile match-ups and feuds (and according to former TPWW poster Rob Harvey, ratings/revenue), Austin was the clear cut greatest of all-time.

[KIRA]

Indeed. As far Brock is concerned, I think the guy that benefited most from Brock's departure was Batista. In an era of separate brands, where Cena was a great talker and great brawler in the ring, he was bound to get over and headline.

Batista, on the other hand, did not have the same look or presence as Brock, he wasn't anywhere near the athlete in the ring Brock was, and while heel Batista is great, his mic work was just ok.

Honestly feel has Lesnar not left, Batista may have still gotten a run but nothing like the one he did where there wa literally nobody to push.

Looking back I actually wish we had gotten more time with Kayne Batista seemed like he was finally hitting his stride and for me, honestly the first time he didn't feel so ridiculously bland.

As for Cena its hard as hell not to respect the guy especially lately (part of me thinks he really enjoyed those open challenges) and it was pretty cool seeing the crowd go from Cena sucks to being unable to with hold props after his matches.

[DAMN iNATOR]

I'll never buy Cena as the absolute greatest of all-time, but as much as I loathe and detest the character he portrays, I think his "Doctor of Thuganomics" years through the first 1 - 1 1/2 years as WWE Champion make him a solid top 10 in my book, even as much as I hate giving the devil his due.

[DAMN iNATOR]

John Cena is definitely up there (easily Top 5 in my opinion, with Hogan, Austin, Rocky, and Bruno in there as well), but I think Hogan easily deserves the, "Greatest of all-time" moniker. Hogan meant just as much to kids back then as Cena does now, but Hogan took wrestling to an entirely new level. Hogan made put wrestling on the map. While Cena has done an admirable job of being the top guy over the past 10 years and keeping the WWE afloat, he didn't take the company to new heights like Hogan.


And for the record, my favorite guy is Stone Cold Steve Austin, and I think Austin has a legit claim for being the greatest of all-time as well. Austin took the wrestling industry to new heights just as Hogan once did.


Austin was the #1 guy during the #1 Attitude era. When you look back on Austin's career during 1997-2003, almost all of his feuds were 5 star calibre and ridiculously high profile. You can't say that about almost anyone else. Austin/Bret, Austin/Owen, Austin/HBK, Austin/Vince, Austin/Taker, Austin/Rock, Austin/HHH, Austin/Angle, Austin/Jericho-Benoit, etc.


In terms of high profile match-ups and feuds (and according to former TPWW poster Rob Harvey, ratings/revenue), Austin was the clear cut greatest of all-time.

You don't think Rock has a legitimate argument? For all intents and purposes, he really didn't leave at all, even part-time for Hollywood until pretty much the end of the Attitude Era, and in that time he went from being the first-ever third generation superstar, but at first besides that fact, a nobody called Flex Kavana during his develiomental days with the company in the summer of 1996, to being "The Blue Chipper" Rocky Maivia, with goofy hair and attire in his Survivor Series '96 WWF debut. Still, he persevered and won his debut match as sole survivor for his team. He went on to many IC and WWF/WWE Championships and was molded into one of, if not the best talkers of all-time in the company's history. Rock definitely has a dog in the fight, too.

[#1-norm-fan]

Love Cena. "Greatest of all time" is a bit of a stretch though. He's great but he's not really on top of any category you could use to measure "the greatest".

[NormanSmiley]

One big part of the rock's resume is he had great mania matches against hogan, austin and cena. For longevity purposes thats something few can say

[BigDaddyCool]

He is so one dimensional. Shawn Michaels is the greatest of all time.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Cena's matches are so much better than Hogan's that it's ridiculous.

[Damian Rey]

Yeah, and it's not even close.

[NormanSmiley]

If you are trying to make the claim of who is the goat by quality of matches you wouldnt have cena or hogan in your top 2 though.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Cena's just the most complete overall package, I feel.

[James Steele]

There is a name missing from this conversation. A man who has been a main eventer for 16 years and has countless classics to his credits. He has been both a top babyface and a top heel. I, of course, am talking about Triple H.

[Heyman]

You don't think Rock has a legitimate argument? For all intents and purposes, he really didn't leave at all, even part-time for Hollywood until pretty much the end of the Attitude Era, and in that time he went from being the first-ever third generation superstar, but at first besides that fact, a nobody called Flex Kavana during his develiomental days with the company in the summer of 1996, to being "The Blue Chipper" Rocky Maivia, with goofy hair and attire in his Survivor Series '96 WWF debut. Still, he persevered and won his debut match as sole survivor for his team. He went on to many IC and WWF/WWE Championships and was molded into one of, if not the best talkers of all-time in the company's history. Rock definitely has a dog in the fight, too.


I think The Rock is definitely up there as I said. Him, Cena, Austin, Hogan, and Bruno are all in the Top 5 in my opinion. Rock was the #1 guy in the company in 2000, and ultimately faced off with all three of Hogan, Austin, and Cena at Wrestlemania. The Rock was absolute gold as both a heel and a face, and as you said, was easily one of the best on the mic. On top of all this, The Rock made it big in Hollywood.


Having said all that, I personally believe that Austin and Hogan have a little more claim to greatness. Both Hogan and Austin took wrestling to new heights.


From a personal standpoint, I was far more entertained by Austin matches in comparison to Rocky matches. Austin was significantly better than The Rock in terms of in ring ability, and his matches always interested me far more.


To this day, Austin/Bret and Austin/Hart Foundation is my favorite feud of all-time, and so perhaps I have a little bias when it comes to "the greatest of all-time." Austin/Bret was what got me back into wrestling after I had stopped watching in 1993. Austin, Bret, Owen, and HBK are my favorite wrestlers of all-time.

[Rammsteinmad]

It's really impossible to measure one single 'Greatest of All Time', because there's many different criteria to gauge them on.

In my opinion, the three greatest of all time, without a doubt, are Hogan, Austin and Cena.

Hogan made wrestling what it is, although, I'm sure Austin was bigger and more recognized in his prime than Hogan was (it's debatable I guess). Shawn Michaels is often regarded as a candidate for GOAT, but he was on top during a down-period. So that logic is a bit odd to measure a guy by when people use it on Cena.

Is Cena as recognized worldwide today as Hogan? Probably not. Than Austin? Maybe so. Austin in his prime was more known to non-fans than Cena, but how many non-fans really know who Stone Cold Steve Austin is today?

Did Hogan grant 500 wishes to ill children?

Did Hogan ever really do anything if there wasn't anything in it for himself? Over the last few years Hogan seems to keep in the spotlight for the wrong reasons. Sex tapes, racist rants etc.

Cena is no doubt a better in-ring worker than Hogan, from a technical standpoint, what about Austin? Austin's had some classic matches with The Rock and Triple H. Cena with Punk, Bryan, Kevin Owens and countless more. Hogan with Andre, Piper etc.

The criteria is endless.

If there was ever an official ranking or whatever and Cena scored #1, it wouldn't bother me at all. Guy has more than earned it. And for the record, I wanna see him break Flair's record. Love and respect for Flair for everything he's done, but Cena is so much better than Flair in every way. In my opinion.

[Rammsteinmad]

Love Cena. "Greatest of all time" is a bit of a stretch though. He's great but he's not really on top of any category you could use to measure "the greatest".

Why not?

Has had some incredible matches. Great talker. Absolute star for the company in terms of workload, charity work, granting 500 wishes etc. In loads of movies (albeit, shitty ones). Sells shit-loads of merchandise and has been getting some of the best reactions of every crowd over the last decade.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Austin/Bret was the best shit ever, yes.

Also, who is this Hulk Hogan guy people keep mentioning? There are no records of anyone like that on the WWE site. :shifty:

[Anybody Thrilla]

Also, I think Cena is pretty recognizable to non-fans. He's like the one wrestler non-fans know.

[road doggy dogg]

I think John Cena is the perfect representation of the modern-day WWE "brand". How much weight does something like that hold over the course of their history? I think a pretty significant amount. I can see the argument of Hogan "putting them on the map", but I think equally important is Cena's role in maintaining the popularity of a product that for all intents and purposes SHOULD NOT be as popular as it is in the 21st century with so many other entertainment mediums.

[slik]

He's like the one wrestler non-fans know.

http://static.dnaindia.com/sites/default/files/2014/09/05/265279-brock-lesnar.jpg

[Rammsteinmad]

Nah, UFC may be popular, but the average-joe on the street probably has no idea who Brock Lesnar is.

[Rammsteinmad]

Also, WWE as we know it is just over 50 years old. That means John Cena has been the top guy for a fifth of the companies life span. That's gotta count for something.

[Big Vic]

Nah, UFC may be popular, but the average-joe on the street probably has no idea who Brock Lesnar is.
They know him more than Cena.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Also, who is this Hulk Hogan guy people keep mentioning? There are no records of anyone like that on the WWE site. :shifty:

Not funny. Not because what he did was racist and offensive, although it clearly was, but because that same basic shit has been passed off as a joke since like the second he was released.

No offense, guy, but I'm brgging you...PLEASE stick to your own brand of humor instead of beaten to death internet jokes. It's not your style and I personally enjoy your humor most when it's organic.

[road doggy dogg]

what does that post even mean

[DAMN iNATOR]

Yeah, you're right. Thrilla DOES owe us an explanation.

[road doggy dogg]

ABT doesn't owe us anything. #PaidHisDues

[loopydate]

So I was thinking about Cena and Make A Wish earlier. 500 wishes is an astronomical number. But it's even more impressive when you consider how relatively short his career has been to be able to do so many.

Let's say for argument's sake that from the moment he debuted in WWE, kids have been wishing to meet him at a consistent rate. That would mean he's granted one wish every 10.276 days.

But obviously kids weren't lining up for orange shorts Prototype Cena, so instead let's take it from his first WrestleMania, the first time it looked like they were really planning on doing something special with him. That makes it one wish every 8.37 days.

Okay, so maybe US Champion Cena wasn't getting a lot of wishes. What about his first world title run? 7.598

If we push it to the latest possible time that kids would have begun wishing for him, let's call it the night he was drafted to Raw, the moment he became The Guy. 7.47

Basically, the guy has granted one dying kid his or her biggest wish about ONCE PER WEEK FOR 10-13 YEARS. That's fucking incredible.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Cena being basically the nicest guy ever makes him impossible to totally hate as stale as his character can be.</font>

[Damian Rey]

It's an amazing amount of dedication. Which further illustrates that, as the epitome of a company man, Cena fits the bill. He's also not involved in ridiculous personal scandals.

Hogan had the steroid issue, his ill timed comments after his son's drunken accident, a messy divorce, sex tape and racist scandals.

Austin had a number of domestic violence issues and also falling outs with Vince over doing business.

Other than the Rock, Cena has been about as great an ambassador to the company as you can get. Incredibly clean image that the company can bank on.

[Damian Rey]

And yes, very difficult to hate Cena. I will say that he's been more than tolerable after moving into the mid card. Sure, I'd have liked to see Owens and Wyatt get a good rub from working with him, but his promos and ring work for the past year has been phenomenal.

[Big Vic]

Cena being basically the nicest guy ever makes him impossible to totally hate as stale as his character can be.
I know, but when others quit I push on and keep hating.

[Heyman]

Austin/Bret was the best shit ever, yes.

Also, who is this Hulk Hogan guy people keep mentioning? There are no records of anyone like that on the WWE site. :shifty:


Hogan will be back in the WWE Hall one day, lol. No way the WWE will hold that off.


Yeah Austin/Bret was tremendous, and was what got me back as a fan after a 4 year absence. That's probably one reason why I'll always personally rank Austin ahead of guys like Rock/Cena (personal bias).


My favorite wrestlers of all-time:


1) Steve Austin
2) Shawn Michaels
2T) Bret Hart
4) Owen Hart
4T) Kurt Angle
4T) Brock Lesnar


This might surprise a few people, but Mick Foley is probably close to my #7 spot. He's definitely in my Top 10. Daniel Bryan is up there as well.


Although I liked guys like Eddie Guerrero, Jericho, Punk, Benoit, etc., I didn't love them as much as most of the IWC did. They were just 'ok' for me.

[NormanSmiley]

No savage? Thats not very macho of you heyman

[Clerk]

Of course cena is the goat he's outsold anyone else in merchandise he's the biggest draw consistently and he's one of the best wrestlers he's versatile he does everything

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

I guess it's quantity over quality. LOLCenawins.