The WWE Title tournament looks like being a massive missed opportunity.

[Maluco]

The majority of people would suggest that WWE writing has, at best, lacked originality or creativity and at best been paint by numbers every week to get to PPV matches. It has divided opinion on the forum and every thread ends up being about it.

But, similar to the Invasion angle, they get presented with a massive opportunity, just thrown into their laps, and it looks like they are taking the easy road once again, when a more measured and creative path could have led to all sorts of positives.

I am talking about the title tournament. Here wa s a chance to make the WWE title the focus of one of their biggest events of the year. To have a tournament on PPV that could have had intriguing booking throughout the night, focused on different personalities, created new feuds, but most importantly, had everyone's focus on the WWE title. This could have been built up to be the biggest event of the year.

Instead, it looks like WWE writers have looked at the opportunity as an excuse to fill up a few weeks of TV with bracket matches and give us the sem finals of a dud tournament on PPV. Sure, those matches could be good quality and something intriguing might come from them, but I can't help but feel this was a chance to put all their focus on the big prize.

If they had done that, every feud, including the main "story" of the winner would have had everyones full focus and it could have given us stories and feuds on the basis of the tournament matches and the big stakes of it being on PPV, for the next 2-3 months.

I could be wrong, but it looks like the easy option has been taken, and a once in a blue moon event, has been turned into a series of matches to fill 3 hour RAWs and Smackdown up to the PPV. None of these matches feel special, and that's because they aren't. I don't buy Ryback/Kalisto as a tournament match buried on Smackdown. Now, if they had fought and won the right to be on an 8 man PPV tournament, and we got the incredible upset on PPV, this would have boosted Kalisto and could have been the start of a story for Ryback.

That's just an example. It could have been the biggest night of the year with so much going on, but I feel like they have taken the gloss off it and missed a massive opportunity to do something special.

Thoughts?

[Simple Fan]

Agree, fell like WWE missed a big opportunity. They just go by booking 101 to quote The Cynick. No creativity went in to the tournament, they just filled slots with who ever. No Wyatt's or New Day members at all is just dumb. They didn't have to win it but you could set up a program through the tournament. Should have had Wyatt be the focus and front runner useing his new powers and stuff only to be attacked by Undertaker at Survivor Series to start that program. New Day could have had Woods in the tournament and cheated their way through a couple rounds and have Woods loose a match off a Uso distraction to set that up. Every thing should have been involved in the tournament and set up feuds from the tournaments early rounds.

[The CyNick]

It's tough

This got sprung on them last minute. It's not luke they had weeks to come up with a plan and not have it screw up existing stories they are working on our trying to get to. You don't want that WCW feel where they reset the angles every 4 months and start from scratch.

I personally would have preferred a 16 man tournament that had qualifying matches on RAW and SD (like they did), and then have the 8 man tourny all on the PPV. However I know WWE isn't a huge fan of the single night tournament, so I also didn't go in expecting that to happen.

I understood why they didn't have Wyatt in the tournament. They have been promoting Survivor Series all month, and those commercials are shot and in the bag well in advance of the show. So it would have come off really odd to not have Taker in a revenge match with Bray and co.

I don't have a good explanation why New Day wasn't included other than they probably want them in another match for the tag titles and didn't want them to lose randomly in a tournament match.

The problem with this tourny is you see how thin the star power is right now. I feel like the tournament itself has been booked fine. You've got the intrigue of what will Roman do, you have some good matches booked (Roman-Cesaro), and an upset or two.

At the end of the day unless they had access to some bigger names (Lesnar, Rock, Jericho, etc) it was never going to come off as this earth shattering event. I'm still looking forward to how the Finals to see if there is a Reigns heel turn or an Ambrose heel turn, or maybe they strap a rocket to Owens.

[Nicky Fives]

I've always wanted a 64-man tournament every year, such an easy way to make feuds, whether they be major or minor, instant feuds can be created with a little thought.....Just off the top of my head:

-IC/US/Tag Champion loses clean, instant feud
-midcarder upsets established star, instant feud
-midcarder face gets accidentally DQ'd, snaps and attacks opponent, turns heel, instant feud
-young Rookie goes on hot streak, upsets a few stars, makes young kid
-outside interference/distraction costs match, instant feud
-previously eliminated star costs wrestler who eliminated him, instant feud

The possibility are essentially endless....

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It's tough

This got sprung on them last minute. It's not luke they had weeks to come up with a plan and not have it screw up existing stories they are working on our trying to get to. You don't want that WCW feel where they reset the angles every 4 months and start from scratch.

I personally would have preferred a 16 man tournament that had qualifying matches on RAW and SD (like they did), and then have the 8 man tourny all on the PPV. However I know WWE isn't a huge fan of the single night tournament, so I also didn't go in expecting that to happen.

I understood why they didn't have Wyatt in the tournament. They have been promoting Survivor Series all month, and those commercials are shot and in the bag well in advance of the show. So it would have come off really odd to not have Taker in a revenge match with Bray and co.

I don't have a good explanation why New Day wasn't included other than they probably want them in another match for the tag titles and didn't want them to lose randomly in a tournament match.

The problem with this tourny is you see how thin the star power is right now. I feel like the tournament itself has been booked fine. You've got the intrigue of what will Roman do, you have some good matches booked (Roman-Cesaro), and an upset or two.

At the end of the day unless they had access to some bigger names (Lesnar, Rock, Jericho, etc) it was never going to come off as this earth shattering event. I'm still looking forward to how the Finals to see if there is a Reigns heel turn or an Ambrose heel turn, or maybe they strap a rocket to Owens.

mmm hmmmm

[The CyNick]

I've always wanted a 64-man tournament every year, such an easy way to make feuds, whether they be major or minor, instant feuds can be created with a little thought.....Just off the top of my head:

-IC/US/Tag Champion loses clean, instant feud
-midcarder upsets established star, instant feud
-midcarder face gets accidentally DQ'd, snaps and attacks opponent, turns heel, instant feud
-young Rookie goes on hot streak, upsets a few stars, makes young kid
-outside interference/distraction costs match, instant feud
-previously eliminated star costs wrestler who eliminated him, instant feud

The possibility are essentially endless....

Yeah I think that would be a good post Mania idea to set up a new challenger for the champion. 64 sounds like a lot though. I mean I guess you could even bring in outside talent. Almost like the concept of the FA Cup where even a lower tier team could play Man U.

Would give you 63 matches that could be spread over several months. Maybe that widdles down to 8 guys, and you have your King of the Ring Network Special. But the KOTR becomes a championship that you hold for the year, rather than a goofy gimmick. Maybe the winner gets the Summerslam title shot.

[Damian Rey]

They found out and pulled the title off of him a week ago. It's not like he just got hurt a day before the taping on Monday night.

They had ample time to rearrange the ppv card, seeing as only Reigns v Rollins was confirmed.

The Taker Wyatt feud could've been extended with Taker being reborn at the event he made his debut at, New Day and the impending Uso feud could've been given a kick with singles matches, as well as del Rio v Swagger, as well give more direction for guys who are a bit aimless right now in Cesaro, Owens and Ambrose.

Instead they're just kind of going with it in a way that's completely uninteresting.

[Ultra Mantis]

It already seems horribly booked and the brackets are random nonsense with a very obvious final. Who does Stardust vs Del Rio benefit? Cesaro, who is seemingly in a program with Stardust, is just going to be make Roman look strong while Stardust looks like a total pushover.

Del Rio's next challenger isn't even "good enough" to get a place in a world title tournament featuring Titus O'Neil and Kalisto. At least put Swagger in there and give him a win over Barrett to rebuild him a bit instead of Neville doing it for the 50th time in a row and accomplishing nothing. Mr Money in the Bank can't even get past the first round so look forward to that cash in.

Having Bray and the New Day involved would also make a bit more sense, since they are actually over enough to look like a threat to Dean Ambrose at least.

Absolute wasted opportunity (To push Johnny Curtis to the moon)

[Shisen Kopf]

This tournament is trash. THE RYBACK losing to El Torito or whatever that mexican's name is, is awful. Serious business this tourney aint. It's a big ol stinkin pile of poo. The only thing worse than this tourney is the racism of owenbrown. Please come back to tpww owen!

[Sixx]

This tournament is trash. THE RYBACK losing to El Torito or whatever that mexican's name is, is awful. Serious business this tourney aint. It's a big ol stinkin pile of poo. The only thing worse than this tourney is the racism of owenbrown. Please come back to tpww owen!

I read that as "come back to the TPWW oven". Owen's antisemitism is affecting my brain.

[Emperor Smeat]

Part of it is due to how rushed it was done because of Rollins sudden injury and the other due to the lack of stars the WWE has at the moment.

If they had the time, could have spaced out the tournament longer but only having 2 weeks till Survivor Series didn't give them that option.

The lack of title worthy stars is another problem since its obvious they want Reigns to be in the finals and the bracket has too many guys as filler instead of legit contenders. WWE has done a pretty bad job at building the midcard to be strong enough to carry them whenever they get into situations like this.

[The Condor]

This whole deal seems like it'll fit in the "Jump the Shark" thread like so much stuff over the last decade. The company simply breeds apathy, and every piece of fantasy booking that each of us did, even if it included Dwayne Gill, was more imaginitive, creative, and dramatic than the slop they are serving.

[#1-norm-fan]

I read that as "come back to the TPWW oven". Owen's antisemitism is affecting my brain.

Enough of this WWE dumb booking shit.

New discussion: If there was a TPWW oven, who would you throw into it?

[The CyNick]

They found out and pulled the title off of him a week ago. It's not like he just got hurt a day before the taping on Monday night.

They had ample time to rearrange the ppv card, seeing as only Reigns v Rollins was confirmed.



Wow a whole week!

You realize cards are finalized before they are announced on TV, right?

[Simple Fan]

A week is plenty of time, what's the point in Creative if they're never creative. A team of writers should be able to come up with something other than just throwing something together that doesn't make sense.

[Droford]

Not using Bray in the tourney while also not using him in the match at Survivor Series is the biggest crime and then none of New Day being involved is the next.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Enough of this WWE dumb booking shit.

New discussion: If there was a TPWW oven, who would you throw into it?

NormanSmiley.

[Damian Rey]

Wow a whole week!

You realize cards are finalized before they are announced on TV, right?

A week is plenty of time. Card subject to change exists and Vince is no stranger to having to adapt on the fly. You mean to tell me you are under the impression that professional writers and the greatest promoter of all time couldn't come up with a more creative and exciting way to use this tournament as a way to really hard sell Survivor Series all the while giving some shine on the current talent as they all chase the title?

Even you have come up with more exciting angles and storyline suggestions than anything they have going on. They had time to announce injury, pull the title off of Rollins, announce a tournament to crown a new champ, but not enough time to rebook a card that had only the main event booked? C'mon.

[#1-norm-fan]

NormanSmiley.

He died of shame already. RIP.

[Maluco]

They are supposed to be writing 5 hours of television a week, no problem booking a tournament on short notice.

If they had a few ideas and felt pressures, have your qualifiers on TV and get the 8 guys you want in there, and have a live draw on the pre-show for the brackets. A Champ winning 3 matches in one night is epic and memorable. It's the kind of thing they bring up for the rest of their careers.

Don't buy the time excuse at all, and I think it is a massive opportunity they have missed.

[Vastardikai]

I would have done it like this. 8 guys are as follows:

Ambrose
Reigns
Cesaro
Batista
Barrett
Del Rio
Ryback
Mystery Opponent

You read Batista right. Authority brings him in as their personal choice to win the title. Night of Survivor Series goes like this.

Cesaro puts up a good fight, but falls to Reigns in a tough match. They shake hands after the match and Reigns puts him over. Del Rio beats Ryback with chicanery, setting up a program. Ambrose gets past Barrett no problem. Batista's mystery opponent is given a long intro to tease Daniel Bryan. We see him kept from the arena by security. The actual opponent is... Zack Ryder. Batista naturally squashes him.

Semis feature Reigns narrowly getting past Del Rio. Ambrose comes out to face Batista, but is jumped by the New Day, with chairs. Batista acts shocked, but it was obviously set up by the Authority. As in, Triple H hands them a big wad of cash on stage obvious. Match goes on anyway, but Dave goes over easily, despite Ambrose showing heart.

Finals has a tired Reigns vs. a relatively fresh Batista. Despite the long odds, Reigns somehow manages to win the hard fought contest. His arm is raised, but just before he can get the belt, out comes the Authority. It seems they forgot to mention that the winner of the tournament has to win 1 more match before getting declared champion. Sheamus cashes in his Money in the Bank briefcase right then.

Reigns tries, but 3 hard matches catch up to him while facing a fresh Sheamus, who wasn't even wrestling that night. Sheamus wins, and he is the Authority's Champion.

[weather vane]

Why is Kurt Angle not a thing? Guy is dying to go back to the WWE. Surely it cannot be his health, he could easily be protected. If it is sour grapes then that is dumb dumb dumb business.

[#1-norm-fan]

It could be because of his health/addictions/craziness. I feel like Vince has proven he won't let sour grapes get in the way of business if he thinks it'll make money.

[XL]

The tournament does feel very flat. What the hell did Kalisto and Titus do to qualify that Sin Cara and Darren Young didn't? Really odd choices.

With Cena and Lesnar on leave, and Orton, Rollins, and Bryan on the shelf it really shows how little they've done to make certain guys really matter. I like Owens, Cesaro, and Ambrose but I've no faith in them getting the push. I'm not a fan of Ryback but what the hell!? I just don't get what they're trying to achieve with him.

The whole BoD/Wyatt thing has been set up awkwardly. Bray claims the souls, BoD say "nope". They set up a tag match instead of a SS match. Can only assume that BoD mow through Harper/Rowan to leave a showdown with Bray/Braun. Not all that compelling.

[weather vane]

All wrestlers are crazy. The on air product should be what matters above all, not the WWE's image. I get that they are public but come on. Nothing would bring that stock up more than amazing ratings and more eyes on the product.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I haven't read this entire thread, but I'm going to, because I'm sure everyone has some interesting and valid thoughts to say on the subject (including CyNick, despite my heatless feud with him at the moment). But this seems like the perfect place to post this:

I had an idea for the quarter-finals that I think is so good and gets the most guys over that for the first time in TPWW history...I'm not going to post it. I don't want to jinx it. But given what everybody wants out of this tournament, what the company wants, and what I think it realizes it NEEDS -- I feel there is a strange chance this might actually happen. I'll probably be proven wrong in favor of the predictable, but it was something I had never considered a possibility until I was just mulling it over and it popped into mind almost experimentally.

It would work, it would feed storylines for not only the immediate future, but months ahead. It would save blowing off some major potential angles too early, and it would elevate a few guys to a position where they could get a permanent footing in the casual fan's main event perception of them. And -- a bonus, given that the WWE have so many guys out -- if this flops on its face, you can always go back to the status quo.

I'll just say this: I have a strange inkling that one of the quarter-final matches on RAW is not going to turn out like we think it will. Quite possible, but it will probably be one I don't want it to be.

[Theo Dious]

Tournaments in WWE only ever seem to work if the company or at least an angle is totally on fire. Most of the King of the Ring tournaments were boring, and any good that came out of them was usually born from the aftermath. The Deadly Game tournament happened at a time when everything WWE did seemed brilliant; to expect the current minds in creative to become masters of artful booking just isn't intelligent. They've clearly approached this as a way to re-book the main event rather than build the entire PPV. At least they'very done something to attract interest instead of pressing the pause button.

[Sepholio]

One of the Wyatts has to turn and make that a 3-v-3 match. Otherwise wtf.

[Maluco]

Tournaments in WWE only ever seem to work if the company or at least an angle is totally on fire. Most of the King of the Ring tournaments were boring, and any good that came out of them was usually born from the aftermath. The Deadly Game tournament happened at a time when everything WWE did seemed brilliant; to expect the current minds in creative to become masters of artful booking just isn't intelligent. They've clearly approached this as a way to re-book the main event rather than build the entire PPV. At least they'very done something to attract interest instead of pressing the pause button.

This feels like an excuse. Why couldn't they write an intriguing tournament? How are people not intelligent who want some thought put into these things? They are getting paid very well to do this, why can't it be done?

The only reason they didn't press the pause button was because it is a 9 month layoff and they couldn't, so no credit there.

[The CyNick]

A week is plenty of time, what's the point in Creative if they're never creative. A team of writers should be able to come up with something other than just throwing something together that doesn't make sense.

Creative is supposed to take long term plans and figure out how to make the journey interesting. When an injury luke the one to Rollins had a trickle down effect on multiple matches, you have to determine a new direction, or you figure out another way to get as many of the guys in the same spot they were going to be in. It's not as easy as you are describing it.

[The CyNick]

Not using Bray in the tourney while also not using him in the match at Survivor Series is the biggest crime and then none of New Day being involved is the next.

Makes no sense for Bray to be involved in anything other than the Taker storyline.

[Damian Rey]

When armchair bookers on here are coming up with better, more beneficial versions of the current lackluster tournament in less time devoted to the idea, something is wrong.

They could've easily planted seeds for new feuds while continuing current ones with the benefit of pushing out the payoff matches. Taker cuts off a dominating Wyatt, the New Dayand Usos costing each other matches, del Rio and Swagger coming to an unresolved finished, Ziggler and Breeze, Owens getting some direction, Ambrose getting direction, and of course getting the belt on Reigns in a way that's beneficial to his character, heel or face.

Instead they just randomly threw guys in who make little sense and made it glaringly obvious the whole thing was done to get Reigns to the title.

[Damian Rey]

Creative is supposed to take long term plans and figure out how to make the journey interesting. When an injury luke the one to Rollins had a trickle down effect on multiple matches, you have to determine a new direction, or you figure out another way to get as many of the guys in the same spot they were going to be in. It's not as easy as you are describing it.

What matches were effected again? The only match confirmed was the main event. Nothing else had been booked. There was no trickle down effect. And, as you yourself have pointed out, creative has changed directions at the drop of a hat countless times when things weren't working out or the situation changed.

This is no different. They have existing storylines that could've easily been forwarded and extended via the tournament. They just chose not to.

[The CyNick]

A week is plenty of time. Card subject to change exists and Vince is no stranger to having to adapt on the fly. You mean to tell me you are under the impression that professional writers and the greatest promoter of all time couldn't come up with a more creative and exciting way to use this tournament as a way to really hard sell Survivor Series all the while giving some shine on the current talent as they all chase the title?

Even you have come up with more exciting angles and storyline suggestions than anything they have going on. They had time to announce injury, pull the title off of Rollins, announce a tournament to crown a new champ, but not enough time to rebook a card that had only the main event booked? C'mon.

Anyone can come up with an isolated tournament that is exciting. My point is the writers have a long term direction. A thing came out saying one rumoured plan was Cena v Reigns at Mania both as babyfaces. If that was the plan, maybe they still want to get there. So they need Reigns to be a conquering babyface to tell the story they want to tell. Hence they create a tourny where Reigns wins. Should they revamp ALL their plans just because the HHH v Rollins match is out the window?

On the flip side, maybe they completely scrapped the existing Mania plan and have a new direction. We don't know the plan. We can speculate, but nobody knows. But even if they have a new direction for Mania, you still have guys in certain places, that you can't just change to make one tournament more exciting. Would Bray being in the tourny be better fit the tournament? 100% yes. But would it also screw up the planning and ADVERTISING that has already been done for Taker? 1000% yes.

The roster is incredibly thin right now due to injury and other commitments. Given that, I think the tournament had been okay.

[The CyNick]

What matches were effected again? The only match confirmed was the main event. Nothing else had been booked. There was no trickle down effect. And, as you yourself have pointed out, creative has changed directions at the drop of a hat countless times when things weren't working out or the situation changed.

This is no different. They have existing storylines that could've easily been forwarded and extended via the tournament. They just chose not to.

You don't seem to understand the difference between booked and announced on TV. I would wager the top matches at Mania were already booked, but won't be announced for months.

If you don't get that difference, this conversation will go nowhere.

[The CyNick]

They are supposed to be writing 5 hours of television a week, no problem booking a tournament on short notice.

If they had a few ideas and felt pressures, have your qualifiers on TV and get the 8 guys you want in there, and have a live draw on the pre-show for the brackets. A Champ winning 3 matches in one night is epic and memorable. It's the kind of thing they bring up for the rest of their careers.

Don't buy the time excuse at all, and I think it is a massive opportunity they have missed.

That's ONE way to book a show.

But it means you leave most of the roster off Survivor Series. An 8 man tourny and maybe one match will fill a 3 hour show.

[Maluco]

Having an exciting tournament and achieving long term goals with it are not mutually exclusive and certainly shouldn't be for well-paid, professional writers.

As for the second point, how many more wrestlers would actually get on the PPV otherwise? You would still have time for a Taker 4-4 match. That would be 16 guys on PPV. You have just said that the roster is thin...

[The CyNick]

I would have done it like this. 8 guys are as follows:

Ambrose
Reigns
Cesaro
Batista
Barrett
Del Rio
Ryback
Mystery Opponent

You read Batista right. Authority brings him in as their personal choice to win the title. Night of Survivor Series goes like this.

Cesaro puts up a good fight, but falls to Reigns in a tough match. They shake hands after the match and Reigns puts him over. Del Rio beats Ryback with chicanery, setting up a program. Ambrose gets past Barrett no problem. Batista's mystery opponent is given a long intro to tease Daniel Bryan. We see him kept from the arena by security. The actual opponent is... Zack Ryder. Batista naturally squashes him.

Semis feature Reigns narrowly getting past Del Rio. Ambrose comes out to face Batista, but is jumped by the New Day, with chairs. Batista acts shocked, but it was obviously set up by the Authority. As in, Triple H hands them a big wad of cash on stage obvious. Match goes on anyway, but Dave goes over easily, despite Ambrose showing heart.

Finals has a tired Reigns vs. a relatively fresh Batista. Despite the long odds, Reigns somehow manages to win the hard fought contest. His arm is raised, but just before he can get the belt, out comes the Authority. It seems they forgot to mention that the winner of the tournament has to win 1 more match before getting declared champion. Sheamus cashes in his Money in the Bank briefcase right then.

Reigns tries, but 3 hard matches catch up to him while facing a fresh Sheamus, who wasn't even wrestling that night. Sheamus wins, and he is the Authority's Champion.

Do you know if Batista is free on 5 days notice? Do you know if he wants to come in to work multiple matches and ultimately lose?

You want a one night tournament to culminate with a MITB cash in? Sounds like an FU to people invested in the tournament.

[Theo Dious]

This feels like an excuse. Why couldn't they write an intriguing tournament? How are people not intelligent who want some thought put into these things? They are getting paid very well to do this, why can't it be done?

The only reason they didn't press the pause button was because it is a 9 month layoff and they couldn't, so no credit there.

No excuse. It's just what they're doing. It's their established pattern and whIle there are a number of options that could be far better in execution, there's no reason to think that they would go those routes. Basically I think they decided to replace Rollins vs Reigns with Reigns vs Ambrose, keeping the Shield Brothers narrative with a bit of tweaking. They've gotten as close as possible to the match they wanted with as little disturbance as possible. Quite frankly I'm surprised they didn't just announce that Reigns would be keeping his spot then have Ambrose win a battle royal for the second spot., then immediately turn Reigns heel. The tournament will at least give the sense of a culmination to the PPV match. I cringed when an heard the tournament announcement because in WWE "tournament" is almost synonymous with "missed opportunity."

[Theo Dious]

Aside: Regardless of how this is playing out, it will be good for Reigns in a storyline sense. He won the Rumble and then defended his WM spot against Bryan only to be fucked by Rollins when the match was teetering. Now he wins a title shot in a 4-way, only to have to fight through a tournament to regain that shot. Getting fucked again will hest him up SO well for a heel turn.

[The CyNick]

Why is Kurt Angle not a thing? Guy is dying to go back to the WWE. Surely it cannot be his health, he could easily be protected. If it is sour grapes then that is dumb dumb dumb business.

Devil is in the details. Is he healthy? How much can he work? Is he addicted to pills? Hire much money does he want? Has he burned bridges?

[Damian Rey]

You don't seem to understand the difference between booked and announced on TV. I would wager the top matches at Mania were already booked, but won't be announced for months.

If you don't get that difference, this conversation will go nowhere.

So what is keeping them from adjusting their plans seeing as a key cog of their long-term plansis now out for the next 6 to 9 months?

Things change. It's nothing new. This situation happened two years ago with Bryan. They adapted accordingly. I understand they have long term plans, however, these are professional writers. There's no reason they couldn't have used the tournament to further what they do have planned or plant seeds for those plans. Again, they just chose not to.

[Maluco]

Aside: Regardless of how this is playing out, it will be good for Reigns in a storyline sense. He won the Rumble and then defended his WM spot against Bryan only to be fucked by Rollins when the match was teetering. Now he wins a title shot in a 4-way, only to have to fight through a tournament to regain that shot. Getting fucked again will hest him up SO well for a heel turn.

Would have been more epic though it is were a culmination of 3 matches in one night, where he feels he is going to miss out again, don't you think?

He then brags about beating 3 guys in one night for the entire reign, reminding fans of the screwjob on Ambrose and how he takes pride in it and keeps it as a medal

Honestly, these little things are not that hard to do, it just seems so lazy to me...

[Theo Dious]

My gut says WWE looks at Angle as too big a risk.

[Theo Dious]

Would have been more epic though it is were a culmination of 3 matches in one night, where he feels he is going to miss out again, don't you think?

He then brags about beating 3 guys in one night for the entire reign, reminding fans of the screwjob on Ambrose and how he takes pride in it and keeps it as a medal

Honestly, these little things are not that hard to do, it just seems so lazy to me...

I absolutely agree. I just would never expect to see it.

[The CyNick]

So what is keeping them from adjusting their plans seeing as a key cog of their long-term plansis now out for the next 6 to 9 months?

Things change. It's nothing new. This situation happened two years ago with Bryan. They adapted accordingly. I understand they have long term plans, however, these are professional writers. There's no reason they couldn't have used the tournament to further what they do have planned or plant seeds for those plans. Again, they just chose not to.

Again, why screw up long term plans just to make a one off event (this tournament) more interesting?

Say the plan is a babyface Reigns vs babyface Cena for the title at Mania. Why would you move away from that based on Rollins getting hurt? If the long term plan called for Reigns as a babyface to beat Rollins at Survivor Series, why wouldnt you just have Reigns win the tournament as a babyface, so you end up in the same spot? Only difference would be you had Rollins vs Reigns penciled in for the balance of the year, so now you need someone to fill that void. But you still keep your Mania plans in tact.

Of course you COULD change everything, and try to make the tournament more interesting, but if you felt the existing long term plan was the right move, why would you change that?

[The CyNick]

Having an exciting tournament and achieving long term goals with it are not mutually exclusive and certainly shouldn't be for well-paid, professional writers.

As for the second point, how many more wrestlers would actually get on the PPV otherwise? You would still have time for a Taker 4-4 match. That would be 16 guys on PPV. You have just said that the roster is thin...

You would have to rush matches to get a Taker match on the card. Taker's entrance on big events is lengthy, you need to build the match like its a big deal. They have built up the show as the 25 years of Taker - you would think there would be some video packages about that. So then if you include that match, you gotta short change the tournament matches. I would rather see Cesaro and Reigns get 15-20 on RAW then seeing them get 8 at Survivor Series.

A tourny plus the Taker match would get 14 guys on the show - no women.

If they just do the Finals or Finals plus Semis on Survivor Series, you can have some Divas on the show, tag team guys, a bunch of mid carders in a traditional Elimination Match. You cover more of the roster that way, and create a complete show. Trust me, I know why people who post on a wrestling message board would prefer a tournament, but the show is meant to appeal to a broader base.

[Maluco]

The broader base want to see things that matter too. They want to see powerful TV and compelling storylines. Not midcarders in a filler match...

[Simple Fan]

Yeah it wouldn't hurt any demographic to make something a little more interesting.

[Damian Rey]

Again, why screw up long term plans just to make a one off event (this tournament) more interesting?

Say the plan is a babyface Reigns vs babyface Cena for the title at Mania. Why would you move away from that based on Rollins getting hurt? If the long term plan called for Reigns as a babyface to beat Rollins at Survivor Series, why wouldnt you just have Reigns win the tournament as a babyface, so you end up in the same spot? Only difference would be you had Rollins vs Reigns penciled in for the balance of the year, so now you need someone to fill that void. But you still keep your Mania plans in tact.

Of course you COULD change everything, and try to make the tournament more interesting, but if you felt the existing long term plan was the right move, why would you change that?

What long terms have I suggested change? Reigns can and should still win the tournament. He can still go on to face Cena. Taker can still show up and light up the crowd and the feud with Wyatt can still be continued. Nothing about the tournament would chang long term plans outside of Rollins' involvement. You can still enhance and progress feuds by including guys in the tournament instead of having guys just randomly tossed in.

[The CyNick]

What long terms have I suggested change? Reigns can and should still win the tournament. He can still go on to face Cena. Taker can still show up and light up the crowd and the feud with Wyatt can still be continued. Nothing about the tournament would chang long term plans outside of Rollins' involvement. You can still enhance and progress feuds by including guys in the tournament instead of having guys just randomly tossed in.

But that's what they are likely going to do. So you should be happy, no?

Reigns will likely battle the odds again and win. Owens vs Ambrose will likely be furthered. Del Rio will continue to be pushed by putting up a good fight against Reigns. Some up and coming guys got wins (Cesaro, Neville for example). You had a somewhat shocking upset.

Are you essentially saying the tournament is a fail because Bray Wyatt(embroiled in another program) and one of New Day (Tag champs and they likely don't want them to lose a throwaway match early in the tournament).

I just don't get the beef when we've only competed one round.

[Vastardikai]

Do you know if Batista is free on 5 days notice? Do you know if he wants to come in to work multiple matches and ultimately lose?

You want a one night tournament to culminate with a MITB cash in? Sounds like an FU to people invested in the tournament.

I will answer in order.

I don't, but if he has a movie to shill, it would be an easy way to do so. Multiple matches in which one is a squash, and a second is a similarly short match. If the money is right, he'll play ball. He's a wrestler.

Yes. That is the planned and expected outcome. Snivelling undeserving champions are a wrestling trope, and you know that. The whole point of the cash in at the end of the tournament was to put heat on the heel and sympathy on the face. And, it sets you up for Wrestlemania. The Authority doesn't give Reigns a title match while Sheamus feuds with Ambrose. Reigns draws #1 at the Rumble and runs the table.

The difference being that with Sheamus, you don't get the backlash you'd get from fans that a Lesnar gets and got. And fans will want a guy to get that belt was stolen from him. Even have him acknowledge the elephant in the room, that he wasn't ready last year.

Ultimately, what I suggested will probably happen in some form. Including the Sheamus cash in to screw Reigns.

[Jazzy Foot]

Not having Bray Wyatt and the Undertaker involved was a big mistake and it just shows how badly WWE have screwed up in pushing the former who imo is one of the best heels/characters they've had in years but is in danger of descending into mid-card mediocrity.

When the Wyatt Family first split we assumed this meant Wyatt himself was going to be pushed into the title picture/main event status. It was questionable to have him job to the Undertaker as I felt given his potential for a long term career, Wyatt could have begun some kind of streak. It would have sense for him to beat Taker being physically imposing and a creepy/mysterious character. Having him re-join/reform the family almost smacks of the character taking a step backwards. In all honest the likes of Harper and Rowan are never going to be main event or WHC material, not in WWE anyway.

It would have made more sense and been more entertaining to have thrown both men into this tournament and have them meet in the main event. I am not sure what WWE have planned for Bray Wyatt in the long term but I can't help but feel that they may be too late or are completely overlooking the guy.

[The CyNick]

Couple things. Bray is a heel, heels can lose. I talk about this all the time but Foley lost a lot to Taker in the early going. People come back and go "yeah but Foley won two matches", which is fair. But he went right from two wins in the summer to many many loses and then was shot down the card and kinda floundered for months and months.

The way people go on here, you would think every new guy needs to win and win and win, otherwise they are finished. The real TRUTH is if you look back at most of the top guys, they went through different stages of going up and down. Eventually the talents talent determines how far they can go.

In terms of booking, I hear you, but I just completely disagree. If two guys have a beef with each other, sometimes the beef can superseed the desire to be champion. I've never heard Bray really say the title was a goal of his. And Taker went most of his career at the top of the card, and was rarely world champion. In this case, I think it kills the storyline to Taker just throw his name in the hat, and end up in a Qualifying Match against Tyler Breeze as your big comeback from injury. And then you are just tipping your hat if Bray and Taker are on a collision course. Why not just book them in a separate match.

As for Rowan and Harper, no they likely never become main eventers. Not everyone is meant to headline. Some guys are just support.

[Theo Dious]

I've never heard Bray really say the title was a goal of his

It's occurred to me that Bray never really targets champions. Has he even been in a title match of any kind?

[Simple Fan]

It's occurred to me that Bray never really targets champions. Has he even been in a title match of any kind?

He follows the buzzards which prey on the weak and the dead. They got that part of the character right but never going through with anything with Bray has made him look weak himself. He could have had supernatural powers when he debuted after beating Kane but they stuck Kane in the shitty Athority role.

[Emperor Smeat]

It's occurred to me that Bray never really targets champions. Has he even been in a title match of any kind?

Just once with MitB 2014 ppv. A few more if house shows count.

[Jazzy Foot]

Couple things. Bray is a heel, heels can lose. I talk about this all the time but Foley lost a lot to Taker in the early going. People come back and go "yeah but Foley won two matches", which is fair. But he went right from two wins in the summer to many many loses and then was shot down the card and kinda floundered for months and months.

The way people go on here, you would think every new guy needs to win and win and win, otherwise they are finished. The real TRUTH is if you look back at most of the top guys, they went through different stages of going up and down. Eventually the talents talent determines how far they can go.

In terms of booking, I hear you, but I just completely disagree. If two guys have a beef with each other, sometimes the beef can superseed the desire to be champion. I've never heard Bray really say the title was a goal of his. And Taker went most of his career at the top of the card, and was rarely world champion. In this case, I think it kills the storyline to Taker just throw his name in the hat, and end up in a Qualifying Match against Tyler Breeze as your big comeback from injury. And then you are just tipping your hat if Bray and Taker are on a collision course. Why not just book them in a separate match.




As for Rowan and Harper, no they likely never become main eventers. Not everyone is meant to headline. Some guys are just support.

I hear what you're saying but I disagree. Losing too many times particularly to top draw stars makes Wyatt lose his mystique. Eventually there will be a point when the likes of Undertaker, Kane etc will hang up their boots and WWE needs a top draw heel. Wyatt has those qualities. The character is creepy as hell and has the physical attributes to boot. It makes sense to have him squash opponents and march towards some kind of a title even though he comes across as a complete psycho who just exists to defeat opponents physically and mentally. In a real sense, he's a natural successor to the Undertaker.

I think you mentioned something about him being a new guy but the guy has been around for some time now, notwithstanding his pre-Wyatt days. He's a believable heel and one everyone loves to hate as opposed to say Sheamus whose new gimmick just hasn't won over any fans (well from what I've gathered) or Wade Barrett who seems to be forever destined to mid-card mediocrity along with the likes of Rusev, Big E Langston (who were being hyped as dominant juggernauts).

Of the current crop (bar Cena and Lesnar who were long established already) it seems WWE are going to put faith in Rollins, Ambrose, Reigns, Wyatt and Owens and possibly Ryback as their "top draw" stars. Not sure whether to include Ziggler there too but he's already been a champion before so I view him very much as an established star.

Of course you only need to look to history to realise not every top star is going to be a champion; Piper, Dibiase, Razor Ramon, Bulldog etc. all legends in their own right but never held the top belt.


I just feel that with the current situation with Rollins out for some time, it wouldn't have been a bad move to have put the belt on Wyatt, crushing Undertaker in the process and forming his own "ministry" of sorts with his family serving him as some kind of brutal champion with his evil reign over the WWE.


P.S. I forgot to add that with Foley, part of his eventual appeal was that of a loveable loser. Somehow Wyatt doesn't strike me as the character that is going to be billed as a loveable loser.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I dunno. The matches have been good. So fucking what?

[Jazzy Foot]

I dunno. The matches have been good. So fucking what?

Because none of those involved in the tournament with the exception of Ambrose and at a stretch Reigns are really "face of the WWE material". Kevin Owens may be there in a year or so but I don't see him getting the belt at this stage?

The rest are all there to make up the numbers.

[Jazzy Foot]

Also with all the Undertaker focus in recent weeks and months and him making more live show appearances etc. I wonder if WWE are now building him up towards his retirement possible at WM 32?

It feels that way.

[The CyNick]

It's occurred to me that Bray never really targets champions. Has he even been in a title match of any kind?

I think his character is one that doesn't need the title.

I could see that changing once he turns face.

[The CyNick]

I hear what you're saying but I disagree. Losing too many times particularly to top draw stars makes Wyatt lose his mystique. Eventually there will be a point when the likes of Undertaker, Kane etc will hang up their boots and WWE needs a top draw heel. Wyatt has those qualities. The character is creepy as hell and has the physical attributes to boot. It makes sense to have him squash opponents and march towards some kind of a title even though he comes across as a complete psycho who just exists to defeat opponents physically and mentally. In a real sense, he's a natural successor to the Undertaker.

I think you mentioned something about him being a new guy but the guy has been around for some time now, notwithstanding his pre-Wyatt days. He's a believable heel and one everyone loves to hate as opposed to say Sheamus whose new gimmick just hasn't won over any fans (well from what I've gathered) or Wade Barrett who seems to be forever destined to mid-card mediocrity along with the likes of Rusev, Big E Langston (who were being hyped as dominant juggernauts).

Of the current crop (bar Cena and Lesnar who were long established already) it seems WWE are going to put faith in Rollins, Ambrose, Reigns, Wyatt and Owens and possibly Ryback as their "top draw" stars. Not sure whether to include Ziggler there too but he's already been a champion before so I view him very much as an established star.

Of course you only need to look to history to realise not every top star is going to be a champion; Piper, Dibiase, Razor Ramon, Bulldog etc. all legends in their own right but never held the top belt.


I just feel that with the current situation with Rollins out for some time, it wouldn't have been a bad move to have put the belt on Wyatt, crushing Undertaker in the process and forming his own "ministry" of sorts with his family serving him as some kind of brutal champion with his evil reign over the WWE.


P.S. I forgot to add that with Foley, part of his eventual appeal was that of a loveable loser. Somehow Wyatt doesn't strike me as the character that is going to be billed as a loveable loser.

I see it as Wyatt isn't a guy people love to hate. I think a lot of the fans dig him. When he was doing that singing got the whole world in his hands, the crowd was singing with him. I think they purposely cut that of because they wanted to keep him heel. Eventually he will turn and likely start to win more.

Putting the title on Bray would be a complete change from their current direction (Reigns as the top guy). This is what I was talking about where you shouldn't change long term plans just because Seth got injured. They have a long term plan in place, and have been planting seeds to get there. You shouldn't tear up the whole garden because of one weed.

I don't know how long the Bray-Taker thing will last. I'm guessing at least a couple months. If that's Takers match for Mania, maybe Bray will get a win over him at Rumble and then Mania will be an underdog stoty for Taker. Maybe this culminates with Taker losing to Bray at Mania. Or maybe Bray loses a hard fought battle and shakes his hand. Maybe it's just for Taker to get some wins and look credible again for something bigger at Mania.

Either way, Bray is talented, he will still be over.

[Jazzy Foot]

I see it as Wyatt isn't a guy people love to hate. I think a lot of the fans dig him. When he was doing that singing got the whole world in his hands, the crowd was singing with him. I think they purposely cut that of because they wanted to keep him heel. Eventually he will turn and likely start to win more.

Putting the title on Bray would be a complete change from their current direction (Reigns as the top guy). This is what I was talking about where you shouldn't change long term plans just because Seth got injured. They have a long term plan in place, and have been planting seeds to get there. You shouldn't tear up the whole garden because of one weed.

I don't know how long the Bray-Taker thing will last. I'm guessing at least a couple months. If that's Takers match for Mania, maybe Bray will get a win over him at Rumble and then Mania will be an underdog stoty for Taker. Maybe this culminates with Taker losing to Bray at Mania. Or maybe Bray loses a hard fought battle and shakes his hand. Maybe it's just for Taker to get some wins and look credible again for something bigger at Mania.

Either way, Bray is talented, he will still be over.

I'm sceptical as to how a face Wyatt would be perceived or even work. When I say love to hate I mean in the sense that he is a heel yes but we cheer for him be it the sing a longs etc much like how we all cheered for the NWO back in the day.

I just feel that given Rollins was meant to be a more long-term champion, this would have been an ideal moment to give someone a brief moment in the spotlight i.e. someone who wasn't meant to figure in the main title picture at say WM 32.

For me the first pick would have been Sting as to quote what I said before, should he return from injury and wrestle again I feel (and I presume) he is "owed" for effectively jobbing twice and as wild as it may seem I don't think it is beyond the scope of impossibility to see him lift the title even at 56/57. Does he need a WWE title reign to his name? Not really, he will always be a legend, but we would sure like to remember his final days in wrestling and indeed his only WWE stint on a more positive note than by jobbing to both Triple H and Seth Rollins. However his neck may have the final say in that and frankly as a Sting fan I would rather he didn't get in the ring again if there is the risk of him sustaining serious/permanent injury to his health.

My second choice was the Undertaker. This would have seemed ridiculous given the beating he just took from Lesnar at HIAC. However, the whole SS event is being billed/hyped around the Undertaker and at the moment it seems the Undertaker is getting far more exposure than he has had in recent years. I can only assume that this is more or less "the last hurrah" or more appropriately "the last ride" for the Undertaker and he is very much on the road to retirement which will possibly end at WM 32. Thus in my opinion and given the unfortunate situation with Rollins, why not have allowed the Undertaker to take the limelight with one last WWE title reign at the event in which he made his debut? It could have involved him in a final round match with Wyatt etc so as to preserve their storyline even though they would have overlooked the SS elimination match? I just think it would have been a fitting tribute to the man but like Sting, another WWE title reign or lack of wouldn't have impacted on his legacy. I just felt it would have been a natural and fitting choice.


I honestly think it will come down to Reigns v Ambrose, an old fashioned face v face match and the winner shakes the losers hand or vice versa. No need for a heel turn or a twist at this stage. Just let Reigns and Ambrose put on a decent match and have them hold the belt going towards WM 32.


I say Ambrose wins the belt and drops it to Sting at WM 32.

[DAMN iNATOR]

LOL, Sting. :lol::lol::lol:

[Jazzy Foot]

LOL, Sting. :lol::lol::lol:

Crazier shit's gone down in WWE before and will no doubt again. That he even featured in WWE title match in the first place was pretty amazing.

[Shisen Kopf]

Hopefully the winner of the tournament is Dean Ambrose bc he is the titty master. Honk, honk.

[The CyNick]

I'm sceptical as to how a face Wyatt would be perceived or even work. When I say love to hate I mean in the sense that he is a heel yes but we cheer for him be it the sing a longs etc much like how we all cheered for the NWO back in the day.

I just feel that given Rollins was meant to be a more long-term champion, this would have been an ideal moment to give someone a brief moment in the spotlight i.e. someone who wasn't meant to figure in the main title picture at say WM 32.

For me the first pick would have been Sting as to quote what I said before, should he return from injury and wrestle again I feel (and I presume) he is "owed" for effectively jobbing twice and as wild as it may seem I don't think it is beyond the scope of impossibility to see him lift the title even at 56/57. Does he need a WWE title reign to his name? Not really, he will always be a legend, but we would sure like to remember his final days in wrestling and indeed his only WWE stint on a more positive note than by jobbing to both Triple H and Seth Rollins. However his neck may have the final say in that and frankly as a Sting fan I would rather he didn't get in the ring again if there is the risk of him sustaining serious/permanent injury to his health.

My second choice was the Undertaker. This would have seemed ridiculous given the beating he just took from Lesnar at HIAC. However, the whole SS event is being billed/hyped around the Undertaker and at the moment it seems the Undertaker is getting far more exposure than he has had in recent years. I can only assume that this is more or less "the last hurrah" or more appropriately "the last ride" for the Undertaker and he is very much on the road to retirement which will possibly end at WM 32. Thus in my opinion and given the unfortunate situation with Rollins, why not have allowed the Undertaker to take the limelight with one last WWE title reign at the event in which he made his debut? It could have involved him in a final round match with Wyatt etc so as to preserve their storyline even though they would have overlooked the SS elimination match? I just think it would have been a fitting tribute to the man but like Sting, another WWE title reign or lack of wouldn't have impacted on his legacy. I just felt it would have been a natural and fitting choice.


I honestly think it will come down to Reigns v Ambrose, an old fashioned face v face match and the winner shakes the losers hand or vice versa. No need for a heel turn or a twist at this stage. Just let Reigns and Ambrose put on a decent match and have them hold the belt going towards WM 32.


I say Ambrose wins the belt and drops it to Sting at WM 32.

Well who knows what the plans were, but sounds like Reigns was slated to take the strap at Survivor Series. This ultimately sucks for Rollins, because its 9 months where goes from making top guy money, to just living off his downside guarantee. That said, he avoids losing the title, and he likely gets a ready made storyline with Triple H to come back to. If he turns face, which I assume will be the plan, there will be money is him chasing whoever is the champ at the time.

Yeah we just dont see eye to eye on Sting. I've said before, my position on Sting is he's a legend in WCW folklore, but in the grand scheme of the business, I dont think he's as big as some people make him out to be. Plus at his age, I just dont think he should be beating any of the young lions WWE has. Could he get a win over another legend? Sure. But I dont see much value in a Sting title reign. He's not going on the road, so I just dont think you get much benefit.

Taker is far more logical, but I think the way the storyline went down to have him just be one sixteenth of a tournament, doesn't do the angle with the Wyatt's any justice. you could probably tell any last hurrah storyline with Taker at the Royal Rumble. Like he wants to win it, so he can fight for the title in front of his home state for what could be his last match. But he's pretty close to his expiry date, and I even think with the little amount he's worked this year, he's overexposed. I really think Taker is best utilized once or twice a year as a special attraction. That said, I understand why they wanted him around this year with the 25th anniversary. I just dont think he needs the title.

I think Reigns vs Ambrose with no turn is a fine ending. People on here will complain, but it continues on the upward trend of The Shield boys, and you could still have Ambrose-Reigns over a couple PPVs. The only problem there is Ambrose has already lost several times to Rollins, if he's used as the whipping boy for Reigns, it might hurt him. Ideally it would be best if they can keep both Ambrose and Reigns strong as babyfaces, then when Rollins comes back, they can swerve like he's still with The Authority, but he double crosses them, and you have The Shield back together as a babyface unit. That could lead to an eventual Triple Threat down the line.

[Jazzy Foot]

Well who knows what the plans were, but sounds like Reigns was slated to take the strap at Survivor Series. This ultimately sucks for Rollins, because its 9 months where goes from making top guy money, to just living off his downside guarantee. That said, he avoids losing the title, and he likely gets a ready made storyline with Triple H to come back to. If he turns face, which I assume will be the plan, there will be money is him chasing whoever is the champ at the time.

Yeah we just dont see eye to eye on Sting. I've said before, my position on Sting is he's a legend in WCW folklore, but in the grand scheme of the business, I dont think he's as big as some people make him out to be. Plus at his age, I just dont think he should be beating any of the young lions WWE has. Could he get a win over another legend? Sure. But I dont see much value in a Sting title reign. He's not going on the road, so I just dont think you get much benefit.

Taker is far more logical, but I think the way the storyline went down to have him just be one sixteenth of a tournament, doesn't do the angle with the Wyatt's any justice. you could probably tell any last hurrah storyline with Taker at the Royal Rumble. Like he wants to win it, so he can fight for the title in front of his home state for what could be his last match. But he's pretty close to his expiry date, and I even think with the little amount he's worked this year, he's overexposed. I really think Taker is best utilized once or twice a year as a special attraction. That said, I understand why they wanted him around this year with the 25th anniversary. I just dont think he needs the title.

I think Reigns vs Ambrose with no turn is a fine ending. People on here will complain, but it continues on the upward trend of The Shield boys, and you could still have Ambrose-Reigns over a couple PPVs. The only problem there is Ambrose has already lost several times to Rollins, if he's used as the whipping boy for Reigns, it might hurt him. Ideally it would be best if they can keep both Ambrose and Reigns strong as babyfaces, then when Rollins comes back, they can swerve like he's still with The Authority, but he double crosses them, and you have The Shield back together as a babyface unit. That could lead to an eventual Triple Threat down the line.

WRT Sting, I struggle to see the point in his WWE run without some kind of "high-point" i.e. a WM win, a couple of wins against top draw stars and/or a title reign. Yes it seems bizarre to give him the nod ahead of younger stars but in that respect those younger guys will still be around in 5-10 years whereas Sting may well be retired in less than a year. In any case any Sting or Undertaker title run wouldn't need to be a long-term run much in the vein of Hogan's final WWE title run. It would just be a case of giving either man that moment in the spotlight or very much a "thank you for everything you've done" and for them to kind of say "goodbye" whilst on top. In all honesty whilst I appreciate his age may well have impacted, it was always going to be impossible to drive forward any meaningful storyline involving Sting. Even the feud with Triple H I felt lacked the hype and backstory. Think about his feuds with the NWO, the baseball bat beatings, the mind games, the vignettes etc etc. We only really got a fraction of that. Had there been some kind of stipulation to the match too (e.g. Sting gains control of the WWE if he wins) that would have made it all the more enticing. Instead we just got "a match" which in parts felt badly timed, a pointless run out by the NWO and DX and then after the weeks of bad blood and feuding, they shake hands? WTF? Had Triple H won the match fair and square then fine a handshake is all well and good. But he won with the help of his DX buddies and a sledgehammer (even if it was no DQ). Not quite sure what direction they wanted to go in with Sting and whether there will be a final chapter to all this but frankly there are no real high points to take away other than he fought at WM 32 and in a WWE title match.


As a Sting fan I'd love nothing more than to see the man hold the WWE title. A man who for more than a decade was the top draw in WWE's rival company to come to them and be their champion. It cements his legacy although not winning the title wouldn't damage it.

Also I can't imagine that the current situation is going to be a "long-term" champion. I firmly believe Rollins was due to hold the title until at least WM 32 and if anything we were all getting into his title run/story.

I also echo my previous comment in that I find it hard to digest how they can have a WWE title tournament and not be including Cena and Lesnar who are easily to two biggest draws in the company. I've made it pretty clear my disdain for most of the new generation with the exception of Rollins, Ambrose and Wyatt and I think Cena v Lesnar for the title carries infinitely more weight than Owens v Reigns or Ziggler v Reigns etc.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Lol when their is a title tournament for your vacant world title, all wrestlers should be looking to get into the tournament, that simple

[Jazzy Foot]

Lol when their is a title tournament for your vacant world title, all wrestlers should be looking to get into the tournament, that simple

The biggest uninjured stars. Sting understandable but Cena, Lesnar, Taker and Kane are available to some extent and Wyatt too and they've been overlooked for the likes of Neville, Owens and Kallisto.

[Ruien]

Again, why screw up long term plans just to make a one off event (this tournament) more interesting?



So the product does not suck?

[DAMN iNATOR]

Crazier shit's gone down in WWE before and will no doubt again. That he even featured in WWE title match in the first place was pretty amazing.

I just don't feel like I would care for Sting as champion and I don't think fans would go for it either.

All that being said without even CONSIDERING the fact that he may never wrestle again after that injury in his match v. Rollins.

[DAMN iNATOR]

So the product does not suck?

Hey, you know how it is - If CyNick says it, it MUST be true. :roll:

[Mr. Nerfect]

The problem with calling in big name stars for this tournament is that it betrays the talent depth problem as much as not having them in there. I completely understand the WWE's desire to leave guys like Chris Jericho, Batista, The Rock, Brock Lesnar, Triple H, etc. out of contention. Realistically, they're not going to be the guys carrying television moving forward, so use the guys you are going to have on TV and let the tournament be about their trials and tribulations.

That being said, the 50/50 booking of guys has ruined many of the fans' perceptions of them as viable World Title contenders, which is why this tournament is coming off quite cold to many people. Vince McMahon's "One Guy" approach to booking is coming back to bite him in the ass here. When your Cena's and Orton's are out, there isn't anyone you can really go to.

Ideally, this tournament would build up a massive heel and a massive babyface to carry television, live specials and house shows for a few months. We're only going to be sans-Cena until around TLC time (although I think they should leave him off until the Rumble), but I hope the WWE has taken notice that it's really hanging Survivor Series on The Undertaker right now -- and he's not always going to be around to bail them out.

[Vastardikai]

Only reason I even considered a part timer was he had to be heel and he needed an easy road to make Reigns look sympathetic to beat him, only to get screwed later.

[Jazzy Foot]

The problem with calling in big name stars for this tournament is that it betrays the talent depth problem as much as not having them in there. I completely understand the WWE's desire to leave guys like Chris Jericho, Batista, The Rock, Brock Lesnar, Triple H, etc. out of contention. Realistically, they're not going to be the guys carrying television moving forward, so use the guys you are going to have on TV and let the tournament be about their trials and tribulations.

That being said, the 50/50 booking of guys has ruined many of the fans' perceptions of them as viable World Title contenders, which is why this tournament is coming off quite cold to many people. Vince McMahon's "One Guy" approach to booking is coming back to bite him in the ass here. When your Cena's and Orton's are out, there isn't anyone you can really go to.

Ideally, this tournament would build up a massive heel and a massive babyface to carry television, live specials and house shows for a few months. We're only going to be sans-Cena until around TLC time (although I think they should leave him off until the Rumble), but I hope the WWE has taken notice that it's really hanging Survivor Series on The Undertaker right now -- and he's not always going to be around to bail them out.


Or perhaps most of the guys involved in the tournament are unlikely to figure in the WWE title picture in the foreseeable future? The likes of Barrett, Neville, Kallisto etc. Maybe this acts as a way of giving them all a bite of the cherry as it were.

I think the best ending to this tournament is Reigns v Ambrose both as faces and both put on a great match at Survivor Series.

[Simple Fan]

Would like to see Bray beat Taker and Kane and truly take their souls and use them to stop Reigns from winning the title. Keeps Reigns and Ambrose face and continues the theme of Reigns getting screwed. HHH and Bray both have something against Reigns and would have a mutual interest in working with each other. Could either have Ambrose win off a distraction or keep the belt vacant with a DQ.

[Jazzy Foot]

I just don't feel like I would care for Sting as champion and I don't think fans would go for it either.

All that being said without even CONSIDERING the fact that he may never wrestle again after that injury in his match v. Rollins.

I do keep mentioning that in my posts regarding Sting i.e. everything is pie in the sky until there is any sort of indication he is fit enough to get back inside the ring.

I think the fans do care for Sting given the reactions to his appearances. A title reign albeit a brief one would go down well I think but it appears that won't be happening until 2016 if ever.

[Ultra Mantis]

The WWE website has put up a poll on who people want to see win the tournament.

http://www.wwe.com/inside/polls/who-are-you-rooting-to-win-wwe-world-heavyweight-title-tournament

Cesaro currently leading at 36%, real shame he can't connect with the fans.

[Simple Fan]

I'd be down with a Sting title run. If Sheamus was to cash in I could see Sting taking it off him. Would really like to see Sting or Taker as heels but doubt WWE would do that.

[The CyNick]

I really enjoyed the quarter final matches on RAW. This round highlighted the benefit of spacing out the tournament. If everything was in one night, the matches would have been really rushed. This way 3 of the 4 got a lot of time to tell a story, and I thought all were really effective. Final Four is predictable, but when it comes to storytelling, i'm not sure that's a bad thing.

[DAMN iNATOR]

I don't think anyone here has actually suggested that every match in the tournament should've taken place in one night, dude. I DO think they should've had the Semi-finals on the SD! tapings tonight and just paid off the Final as Sunday's main event, leaving ample time for a couple of other matches that could've been more interesting than a couple of matches in what, so far has, aside from Kalisto defeating Ryback, been a very ho-hum tournament.

[The CyNick]

A lot of people on here were slamming WWE for not having the whole tournament in one night. As I mentioned at the time, I always thought they would only have two rounds at SurvSer.

I actually agree now that I've seen it unfold, I would have rather just had the Finals at the PPV. I think guys have less heat when they work multiple times in one night. And it would have allowed them to give each match a ton of time on TV. But not a big deal at the end of the day.

While it would be good for SD to have something as important as the Semis, I think it would be an overall bad move because fewer people watch SD. It's too bad they didn't have an extra week of TV to do it on RAW.

[Big Vic]

If they want sheamus to cash in its best to have two matches on the PPV. If he doesn't cash in, or attempt to, I would be very surprised.

[The CyNick]

If they want sheamus to cash in its best to have two matches on the PPV. If he doesn't cash in, or attempt to, I would be very surprised.

Very good point

[XL]

That Cesaro-Reigns match was epic. Owens-Neville was great too. ADR is still really, really boring. Wasn't all that impressed with Ambrose-Ziggler.

But, now what??

Cesaro looked a million dollars in a losing effort, will they maintain that momentum? I'd have him in the Traditional Survivor Series match, kicking ass, and have him overcome a 2-on-1 disadvantage to become the Sole Survivor.

[The CyNick]

I would say it's a good bet Cesaro has a good showing in an Elimination match.

He will likely be a final four candidate at the Rumble. As I predicted after his feud with Big Show, he's on the verge of being in the upper mix. He really needs to step it up each time he's out there.

[XL]

Did you also predict that WWE would be short of Rollins, Cena, Orton, and Lesnar all at the same time? Would they be "getting behind" Cesaro if they weren't desperate?

[Ultra Mantis]

I think he actually predicted that after Big Show squashed Cesaro they would go on to have a career making feud, with Cesaro ultimately winning a hard fought PPV match with a move that he could theoretically perform on any member of the roster regardless of size.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The Survivor Series Elimination Match should not only feature Cesaro, but should basically be a vehicle to get him over. I'd consider allowing him to shatter the record and eliminate all five guys on the opposing team.

[The CyNick]

Did you also predict that WWE would be short of Rollins, Cena, Orton, and Lesnar all at the same time? Would they be "getting behind" Cesaro if they weren't desperate?

Lesnar's schedule has been known since the beginning of the year, so that has no imapct on anything. Cena is in a whole other stratosphere from Cesaro. Orton being out may have opened the door for Cesaro a bit.

But yeah I still think they would, and I dont think they are desperate. Numerous reports have come out that nothing major has changed in terms of long term planning outside of HHH v Rollins at Mania and Reigns-Rollins rematches for the balance of the year.

Its not like they are forcing Cesaro into the main event. He's sniffing around the main event guys, and looking good, but losing. Which is right where he should be. Now he needs to start getting some steady wins, and moving up the ladder.

[The CyNick]

I think he actually predicted that after Big Show squashed Cesaro they would go on to have a career making feud, with Cesaro ultimately winning a hard fought PPV match with a move that he could theoretically perform on any member of the roster regardless of size.

Title tournament probably impacted some of that. And thats just how I thought they would get there. Point is, I knew Cesaro would be pushed. People argued and will be proven wrong. On it goes, this thing of ours.

[Jazzy Foot]

If they want sheamus to cash in its best to have two matches on the PPV. If he doesn't cash in, or attempt to, I would be very surprised.

I think he will. He isn't going to figure in long term title plans imo. His current run hasn't gone down too well with the fans so it may be a case of get him to cash in now and either lose or hold the belt briefly. Either way I see Reigns ending 2015 as the WWE Champion.

[Jazzy Foot]

Did you also predict that WWE would be short of Rollins, Cena, Orton, and Lesnar all at the same time? Would they be "getting behind" Cesaro if they weren't desperate?

Nope but two of those guys are on self-imposed/requested time off. Frankly I'd rather Cena was the one winning the belt at the end of this tournament as sooner or later he is going to break Ric Flair's record, perhaps at WM 32?

[Ultra Mantis]

Title tournament probably impacted some of that. And thats just how I thought they would get there. Point is, I knew Cesaro would be pushed. People argued and will be proven wrong. On it goes, this thing of ours.

Are you suggesting they would change those long term Big Show / Cesaro plans just for a silly tournament?

I am shocked.

[#1-norm-fan]

You're a big dummy if you didn't see that WWE had long term plans stemming from Big Show destroying Cesaro before he himself got destroyed by Lesnar.

A big, dumb dummy.

WWE is genius and shit.

[Tom Guycott]

Did you also predict that WWE would be short of Rollins, Cena, Orton, and Lesnar all at the same time? Would they be "getting behind" Cesaro if they weren't desperate?

I think he actually predicted that after Big Show squashed Cesaro they would go on to have a career making feud, with Cesaro ultimately winning a hard fought PPV match with a move that he could theoretically perform on any member of the roster regardless of size.

Title tournament probably impacted some of that. And thats just how I thought they would get there. Point is, I knew Cesaro would be pushed. People argued and will be proven wrong. On it goes, this thing of ours.

The problem is WWE'S track record to the contrary. How many times has something potentially awesome happened to Cesaro only for him to mysteriously fuck off from the radar shortly afterwards? And it isn't like he's getting injured like everytime they'd get serious about Wade Barrett.

The danger is that, from given history, creative can put him in that feud with Cesaro, and Cesaro does come out on top, and it does potentially elevate his status up the card... then he is back on Superstars duty for no reason because fuck him. Until they actually follow through and show sustained willingness otherwise, we're conditioned to expect disappointment.

[XL]

You're wrong.

WWE have now given Cesaro everything he needs to get over, if he gets depushed when Cena, Orton, and Rollins (and the part-time guys show up for Mania) it's all his own fault!!

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

In all fairness, WWE has no actual reason to be desperate. It would be incredibly short sited for them to ever really be desperate given they have ZERO competition.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Which explains the hum drum lack of urgency displayed in their on air product.

[Theo Dious]

You're wrong.

WWE have now given Cesaro everything he needs to get over, if he gets depushed when Cena, Orton, and Rollins (and the part-time guys show up for Mania) it's all his own fault!!


It he's as good as people say he is the crowds will make sure he stays in the spotlight, re: Daniel Bryan.

[Evil Vito]

In all fairness, WWE has no actual reason to be desperate. It would be incredibly short sited for them to ever really be desperate given they have ZERO competition.

<font color=goldenrod>I think Nash (woooo Nashvember) said in a recent shoot that Vince would rather have a 2/3rds full arena with his hand-picked guy on top than a packed arena with a guy picked by somebody else. And at this point with zero competition there's no reason whatsoever for him to not just do what he wants since drawing 2/3rds of a house will still make the company money.</font>

[Damian Rey]

Did CyNick just reference reports, as in "TEH SHEETZ"?

[The CyNick]

Did CyNick just reference reports, as in "TEH SHEETZ"?

I think I read it in Twitter.

I take it with a grain of salt, just using it as a point of conversation. If I wanted to validate I would reach out to Hunter or Vince instead of taking the word of some guy who runs cable.

[Damian Rey]

Then why bring it up? You try and chastise people who read dirt sheets and call them sheep, yet mention an equally nefarious report yourself. If you think they're do unreliable why even bother to bring it up? Unless you brought it up because it was convenient to use in either arguing or validating a point you were trying to make. That's sure what it seems like. Not a bad thing, as that's mostly what any of us have to go off of, but you can't have it both ways pal.

[The CyNick]

Then why bring it up? You try and chastise people who read dirt sheets and call them sheep, yet mention an equally nefarious report yourself. If you think they're do unreliable why even bother to bring it up? Unless you brought it up because it was convenient to use in either arguing or validating a point you were trying to make. That's sure what it seems like. Not a bad thing, as that's mostly what any of us have to go off of, but you can't have it both ways pal.

I go by what I see on TV or what I hear from the decision makers (Hunter, steph, Vince).

People on here take the OPINION of people who rely on making up bullshit to make a living and pass it off as fact. If I reference something from a newz site, I would be the first to say it's very unreliable and take it with a grain of salt.

Nice try on the gotcha journalism though.

[screech]

That didn't explain why you brought it up.

"Why reference a tweet if you don't trust the source?"

"I go by what I see on TV, except when I see something on twitter maybe."

[Damian Rey]

I go by what I see on TV or what I hear from the decision makers (Hunter, steph, Vince).

So did Hunter, Steph or Vince post that tweet or say as much on tv? If not, why bring if up?

If you go on what you hear or see via the company, why bring up a "report" that didn't come from the company? Unless of course you are admitting to using the report as a way to back up a statement, much like most do here.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I go by what I see on TV or what I hear from the decision makers (Hunter, steph, Vince).

People on here take the OPINION of people who rely on making up bullshit to make a living and pass it off as fact. If I reference something from a newz site, I would be the first to say it's very unreliable and take it with a grain of salt.

Nice try on the gotcha journalism though.

That's got to be a joke. You project whatever points you want onto others to label them for your purposes, but when you get busted spouting off OPINIONS, you try and carry yourself like a sage.

Fuck off with that noise.

[Damian Rey]

Noid, we are friends.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

lol Noid is a for realz a badass submission machine nowadays.

[Damian Rey]

CyNick has brought out the side of Noid needed for a main event push. Can't wait for Noid's 8 year journey to culminate at Tpww mania.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Noid's reign of terror. He'll be burying worthy challengers in no time.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I love it too because Noid is easily the nicest man on this forum.... pushed to the fucking brink to finally turn into a ferocious big daddy cool esque tweener post Survivor Series '95, in homage to Nashvember. No more kissing babies. :mad:

[Damian Rey]

"I'M. BACK ."

[Mr. Nerfect]

You guys are fantastic. These forums are always better when Gorgeous Dale is around. The workhorse who comes in for a special attraction match. And I know you've been around these parts for a while, Damian, but you've really been hitting the ****/***** mark with your workrate lately. It feels like you've become a top babyface attraction these last couple of months.

Me, on the other hand, haven't changed at all. It's the fans that have changed. I know who I am -- I've been here for thirteen years working almost every day of my life -- and now you're sensing something different? I don't feel like the old doormat Noid you used to laugh and mock? Maybe you should all look in the mirror and realize that I'm not the monster here.

Next week I will debut Evil Emma as my on-screen girlfriend, Doug Basham as my tag team partner and Val Venis as my trainer/coach/cornerman.

[The CyNick]

I love it too because Noid is easily the nicest man on this forum.... pushed to the fucking brink to finally turn into a ferocious big daddy cool esque tweener post Survivor Series '95, in homage to Nashvember. No more kissing babies. :mad:

I'm actually nicer

[The CyNick]

You guys are fantastic. These forums are always better when Gorgeous Dale is around. The workhorse who comes in for a special attraction match. And I know you've been around these parts for a while, Damian, but you've really been hitting the ****/***** mark with your workrate lately. It feels like you've become a top babyface attraction these last couple of months.

Me, on the other hand, haven't changed at all. It's the fans that have changed. I know who I am -- I've been here for thirteen years working almost every day of my life -- and now you're sensing something different? I don't feel like the old doormat Noid you used to laugh and mock? Maybe you should all look in the mirror and realize that I'm not the monster here.

Next week I will debut Evil Emma as my on-screen girlfriend, Doug Basham as my tag team partner and Val Venis as my trainer/coach/cornerman.

Bunch of people who could never headline. Solid group.

[#1-norm-fan]

Well if you're gonna stop even TRYING to come up with rebuttals to shit and just go with generic "You people couldn't lace my boots" type comments like you seem to be doing lately, your heel heat is gonna plummet quicker than RAW's ratings, guy.

[#1-norm-fan]

You want me to fight this battle for you, CyNick? I bet I could channel your WWE apologist gimmick pretty well. Just give me the word.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Bunch of people who could never headline. Solid group.

That's rich coming from you, who is at best a solid hand

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm actually nicer

No you're not. You're more benign, but you lack modesty and humility, and shut down ideas in a dismissive way far more than you think you do.

[Mr. Nerfect]

CyNick would never draw in the top spot. He's fun for a few weeks, but when the promos all start sounding the same and you realize they don't make sense, he's a mid-card enhancement guy at best. He'd be lucky to get onto the heel Survivor Series team.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

He reminds me of a young Reno Riggins.

[Vastardikai]

He'd job to me regularly, and I'm JTTS at best.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Vastardikai -- you're a guy that I'd like to keep sort of strong, because you never know when you're going to be ready for that main event push.

[#1-norm-fan]

I don't think I could successfully take over CyNick's heel gimmick on second thought.

My win over NormanSmiley solidified my place as a top face. Maybe CyNick was right. One big win and now I couldn't go heel again if I tried.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, you've got way too much shine at the moment. If you turned, then people would tune out.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Gerty has been too much of a babyface recently. He's cooled off on his heel persona. I'd like to see him re-cement himself as the top heel. I mean, I should protect my spot, but I think you need the two of us sharing the job of carrying things on the heel side.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Where has broverboard gone? That guy was an instant babyface.

[The CyNick]

Well if you're gonna stop even TRYING to come up with rebuttals to shit and just go with generic "You people couldn't lace my boots" type comments like you seem to be doing lately, your heel heat is gonna plummet quicker than RAW's ratings, guy.

Never happen because I have facts on my side. As you can attest to.

[The CyNick]

You want me to fight this battle for you, CyNick? I bet I could channel your WWE apologist gimmick pretty well. Just give me the word.

Not necessary. Some day, and that day may never come, I will call upon you to do a service for me.

[The CyNick]

That's rich coming from you, who is at best a solid hand

Come on now, even you don't believe that.

[The CyNick]

CyNick would never draw in the top spot. He's fun for a few weeks, but when the promos all start sounding the same and you realize they don't make sense, he's a mid-card enhancement guy at best. He'd be lucky to get onto the heel Survivor Series team.

Just when you think you have the answers, I change the questions.

[The CyNick]

I don't think I could successfully take over CyNick's heel gimmick on second thought.

My win over NormanSmiley solidified my place as a top face. Maybe CyNick was right. One big win and now I couldn't go heel again if I tried.

The problem is to really be like me you have to have conviction in what you say. For you it would be like putting on an act. For better or worse, I am who I am. You can't beat that.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Come on now, even you don't believe that.

Well, you're at best a Booker T maybe... and we know how you feel about him.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Not necessary. Some day, and that day may never come, I will call upon you to do a service for me.

It's official, CyNick's running out of actual responses. Otherwise he wouldn't quote Vito Corleone in "The Godfather".