2 Year Old Bullshit

[The Condor]

Guys, am I the only one who looks at the 2014 Royal Rumble and sees that the entire fucking mess is not only the catalyst for the "Yes! Movement," but it really set the table for the mess of 2016's creative malaise?

Everyone points to the fact that the crowd was behind Roman Reigns to win the Royal Rumble in 2014, totally buying into him as a legit "guy," but I feel that this revisionist history ignores a few very important things:

Firstly, did people REALLY want Roman headlining Wrestlemania? With less than a year and a half in the company, and nary a singles match? Over Daniel Bryan, over Cena, over his Shield teammates? We're people truly clamoring for a face Roman to take on a heel Orton foe the title? Doubtful on all counts.

Secondly, the fans wanted one man-- DBry or bust, and the entire rumble bore this out, most especially when Rey came out at number 30. Roman was not the preferred guy, until...

Batista was left alone with Roman, and Roman became the NFC team that every fan cheers for against the Patriots in the Super Bowl. No one wanted Batista, especially with how his entire comeback was booked, and Roman was the last guy with him, thus garnering the support and cheers of the fans. The same would have happened regardless of who was left in the ring with Batista that night, and Roman reaped the benefits of favorable booking due to ironic support from live fans at the Rumble, thus initiating the rocket push that we are enduring presently.

I know this is just me bitching, but it seems to be the opinion of a lot of people whose opinions I respect that Roman was the choice of fans and thus we ought not be so fickle. Do you guys think that fans really wanted Roman, or was he just lucky to be the last guy left in that rumble and the WWE misinterpreted the support as legitimate?

[Savio]

Remember, Rusev was being cheered for last year at the end of the match too, lol



Roman Reigns is a big part of the reason i stopped watching.

[Lock Jaw]

Roman/Shield was legit over big back then. Would have got more cheers than, say, Rey Mysterio.

[Disturbed316]

The crowd wanted (and still do) Daniel Bryan, simple as that. He was so over with the crowd yet Vince didn't want him as his main guy, preferring his part timers or Roman.

Vince claims that Cesaro can't connect with the crowd yet gets good reactions, but Roman struggles to (and his promo skills are terrible) yet gets push to the moon. I've barely watched Raw over the last 6 months, the mishandling of talent, terrible stories and pushing people who don't have the skills has made me turn off.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The right story to tell at the 2014 Royal Rumble was Daniel Bryan winning the thing and getting his closure with Randy Orton. Unfortunately, the WWE didn't go this route, gave Rey Mysterio a big fuck you, and overexposed Orton vs. Bryan anyway.

You are right in that the support wasn't for Roman Reigns (not that people have a problem with him), but was for "not Batista." It was always rumored that Reigns was going to be "the guy," but he's never really shown anything special. I mean, he's a good worker. He's good looking and charismatic in a stoic Batman sort of way. But they presented him like Superman and it didn't work.

Ambrose and Rollins both showed more potential as singles acts, in my opinion. Ambrose has lost a bit of interest from me with his simplified "he's crazy" character. I liked his "crazy like a fox" presentation when he was head of The Shield.

Bryan was the right choice to win in 2015 too. Even if he had to forfeit the World Title after winning it from Lesnar, he was just the right choice. This year the right choice to win the Rumble seems to be Brock Lesnar. Even if he's cheered, he's still the "Big Bad" of WWE. The most over guy you can put against him right now is probably The Rock, so I imagine Vince McMahon is desperately trying to get this insurance stuff sorted.

#2 is probably Roman Reigns, so I wonder where that leaves Triple H? Facing Dean Ambrose? Do the WWE throw a shit-tonne of money at Austin to get him do that match no one thinks he will ever do again against The H's? Does Triple H get involved with Dean Ambrose in a "you're not Reigns, but you're close enough" match? Or does Triple H just put himself alongside Lesnar in the main event to make sure that Reigns has got "no chance" of walking out a three-time WWE Champion?

There's really not anyone else to face Lesnar. I could see the desperation leading to Brock vs. Taker, despite them alluding to it never happening again. Title vs. Career might be enough of a stipulation to trick people into buying it. After all, Taker doesn't have a clear opponent either. I could also see them just jamming Brock against Sheamus, Barrett, Rusev and Del Rio in some sort of gauntlet if Brock bucks The Authority and gives a nod of respect to Reigns or something.

I don't think the WWE should do that, but would any of those four guys be seen as a threat on their own? Aligned people might actually think they have a chance.

[Mr. Nerfect]

A possible WrestleMania card with the Brock vs. League of Nations thing:

4-on-1 Elimination Match for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship
Brock Lesnar (c) vs. Alberto Del Rio, King Barrett, Rusev & Sheamus

No Holds Barred Match
Triple H vs. Roman Reigns

Casket Match
The Undertaker vs. Bray Wyatt

In-Ring Segment
Stone Cold Steve Austin and The Rock exchange barbs before being taken out by the debuting Bullet Club

Fatal 4-Way Match for the Divas Championship
Charlotte (c) vs. Becky Lynch vs. Sasha Banks vs. Paige

Triple Threat Match for the Intercontinental Championship
Dean Ambrose (c) vs. Chris Jericho vs. Shinsuke Nakamura

United States Championship
Kevin Owens (c) vs. Sami Zayn

TLC Match for the WWE Tag Team Championship
The New Day (c) vs. The Usos vs. The Wyatt Family

Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal
Featuring guys like Dolph Ziggler, Big Show, Kane, Kalisto, The Miz, Bubba Ray Dudley, D-Von Dudley, Neville, R-Truth, Jack Swagger, The Social Outcasts and anyone else they want to give a WrestleMania spot

[Mr. Nerfect]

They'd probably call Batista before they got to the point where they had to force the WrestleMania main event like that, actually. Brock vs. Batista is still a fresh match, and Batista is arguably "cooler" now that he's done Bond, has been away, and doesn't have a Daniel Bryan breathing down his neck.

[The Condor]

Dude, you know that HHH/Reigns is headlining WM this year. It's going to happen, and no amount of misplaced optimism is going to prevent it from happening. The COO v. The Big Dog/Juggernaut/Superman/Samoan SWAT Team, etc... for the title.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I haven't been watching, but I'm not too sure about that. Hard to imagine anything being bigger than the Brock match.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Dude, you know that HHH/Reigns is headlining WM this year. It's going to happen, and no amount of misplaced optimism is going to prevent it from happening. The COO v. The Big Dog/Juggernaut/Superman/Samoan SWAT Team, etc... for the title.

Man, is this Condor guy crazy or what? It's like he's the Poster Formerly Known as Crazy Edgar or something.

But anyway, it's pretty fucking far from a foregone conclusion that Reigns v. Triple H will be the WM 32 main event, and I hope they're smart enough to figure out a main event for the biggest show of the year that will actually get the fans interested enough to give WM 32 a good to great buyrate on the Network/PPV.

[Damian Rey]

I would mildly surprised if it wasn't Hunter v Roman in the main event.

[Lock Jaw]

Pretty obvious that it will be Triple H vs. Roman Reigns.

Literally no other possible matches.

[The Condor]

But anyway, it's pretty fucking far from a foregone conclusion that Reigns v. Triple H will be the WM 32 main event, and I hope they're smart enough to figure out a main event for the biggest show of the year that will actually get the fans interested enough to give WM 32 a good to great buyrate on the Network/PPV.

It doesn't mean that HHH/Reigns was the long term plan, but with injuries to Orton, Cena, Bryan. Rollins, Cesaro, and Sting, and the inability of Rocky to actually wrestle due to his movie career/insurance issues, it is the only legitimate story that can be told in the Main Event spot.

[Maluco]

Would hate that idea of the LoN vs Lesnar. They are so "meh" and either Lesnar beats them and basically kills them off as a group or one of them walks out with the WWE title, which would be even more underwhelming.

Also think people might be expecting too much from the Bullet Club. This is a group containing Festus and a 38 year old AJ Styles. They are not talking out Stone Cold and The Rock at Mania. Don't get me wrong, I would love them to come in and shake things up, but there is no way Rock and SCSA will be used that way for them.

[Frank Drebin]

Would anyone "not Batista" have been cheered? 50/50. If it was down to Batista/an Uso, my guess is the crowd would let out a collective groan knowing that there wasn't a chance the Uso would win. Roman and the Shield had been booked strong and the crowd was behind him because it was plausible that we could be seeing an OMG moment which could (would?) have instantly created a fresh main eventer. The crowd was frothing to see that whole package.

[The Condor]

Would anyone "not Batista" have been cheered? 50/50. If it was down to Batista/an Uso, my guess is the crowd would let out a collective groan knowing that there wasn't a chance the Uso would win.

That goes back to one of my original points. Everyone knew Batista was winning, and no one legitimately thought Roman was going to go over the returning movie star hero and get a Jesus push. The cheers for him were akin to the sardonic cheers fans lavished on Rusev at the end of last year's rumble.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>The main event of WrestleMania 32 will be Triple H vs. Roman Reigns, and holy mother of christ am I glad I didn't book travel to go.</font>

[The CyNick]

I think the average fan really liked Roman in the 14 Rumble, but likely thought it was a year too early for him to headline Mania.

WWE could have done more to make it clear Bryan wasnt going to be part of the Rumble. But even as it happened, it played into the overall story of "the fans changing the plans" and creating the ultimate underdog story for Bryan at Mania. At the end of the day, Mania 30 played out perfectly, with the storybook ending.

The problem in 2015 was really Bryan's health. If he was 100% I'm quite certain he would have been a major part of the Mania storylines. But there were question marks. WWE had already wasted the back half of 2013 and the first half of 2014 on making Bryan the biggest star in the company. To waste another Mania season on a guy who wasn't durable enough to actually carry the ball would have been irresponsible. So they tried to make Reigns and Rollins the new stars. Problem was they did it in front of a heavily smark crowd, who had been trained to think if they scream loud enough, Bryan will be given the spot. But this time, they weren't going with that angle, so it made it look like everyone hated Reigns. I think to this day is the only reason people hate on Reigns, because he's not Daniel Bryan.

The reality is its not WWE or Reigns' fault that Bryan's body wasn't able to handle being WWE Heavyweight Champion. It's also not WWEs fault that this year a huge portion of the top end of their roster is either hurt or unable to compete. The fact that they can squeeze any main event with the intrigue of HHH v Reigns is amazing.

[Frank Drebin]

That goes back to one of my original points. Everyone knew Batista was winning, and no one legitimately thought Roman was going to go over the returning movie star hero and get a Jesus push.

If no one thought it was possible, they wouldn't have been clamoring for it, though. I'm sure no one would have put money on Roman at that point, but that little glimmer was all it took.

[Frank Drebin]

Also, HHH/Roman main event of WM? Hot garbage.

[Lock Jaw]

HHH winning the title at the Rumble. Mark my words.... and then Roman Reigns will be a 3 time champ soon enough.

[Frank Drebin]

SaVe_u$_@ny 1

[Frank Drebin]

Also, RIP Crazy Edgar.

[Frank Drebin]

.....and to answer another question, I don't think people REALLY wanted Roman to main event WM at that time, but it would have been an unexpected and - more importantly - unforced moment that people would have bought into it.

[Emperor Smeat]

Want to say the 2011 Rumble was the last time the crowd was ok with who won in the end. Crowd popped huge for Santino but didn't vent out in anger at Del Rio winning.

2012 had Sheamus winning but crowds already loved Jericho and it did set up the Jericho-Punk feud as consolation while starting with 2013 they cheered for the runner up solely because they despised who was winning instead.

Ryback got huge cheers once it became obvious the WWE wanted Cena-Rock II, Reigns because the WWE was really stubborn with Batista's push, and Rusev because of how horrendous Reigns win was being set up.

[DAMN iNATOR]

It doesn't mean that HHH/Reigns was the long term plan, but with injuries to Orton, Cena, Bryan. Rollins, Cesaro, and Sting, and the inability of Rocky to actually wrestle due to his movie career/insurance issues, it is the only legitimate story that can be told in the Main Event spot.

We'll agree to disagree, but I want to pitch one scenario: Ambrose winning and feuding with Reigns on the Road to WrestleMania. I think that would be epic, fuck waiting for WrestleMania 33 for a Shield triple-threat WWE WHC match. Ambrose can straight up go in the ring and is WAY over with the fans right now. I guarantee they'd lose their shit for a feud like that right about now.

[Lock Jaw]

Kind of already "dropped the ball" on any sort of Ambrose/Reigns big time match when they fought each other at the end of the tournament in a lackluster short match that had Reigns win "easily".

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Kind of already "dropped the ball" on any sort of Ambrose/Reigns big time match when they fought each other at the end of the tournament in a lackluster short match that had Reigns win "easily".

this made no sense to me. Don't really get that decision. I understand there was the big angle afterwards (which completely flopped) but they still could have gone 20 minutes and it could have been a real war.

[DAMN iNATOR]

The 2014 Rumble did give us ONE good thing (at least until he too was turned into a non big deal):

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/v4YWhhWJasA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[The Condor]

Kind of already "dropped the ball" on any sort of Ambrose/Reigns big time match when they fought each other at the end of the tournament in a lackluster short match that had Reigns win "easily".

this made no sense to me. Don't really get that decision. I understand there was the big angle afterwards (which completely flopped) but they still could have gone 20 minutes and it could have been a real war.

This was just another in a long line of head scratching decisions since that Royal Rumble in 2014. I just don't understand anything they have done, and it's not just instant reactions; I try to be even handed and give everything a chance and time to develop, but anymore I am having my Fandom killed off. I just watch the product out of habit it seems.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I guess Roman Reigns could "win" the Rumble, only for Triple H to come down and be "#31" and win it to set up the title match, but I really do think that will turn people off. I'm not sure Hunter wants the pressure of drawing 100,000+ fans either. I think he will be smarter and put himself lower on the card.

I still have Brock winning the Rumble. It's the only thing that really makes sense to me that won't piss people off. I am not sure who they have him going against, but I'm going with him walking out of the Rumble with the belt.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I honestly do think that Vince finds a way around the insurance issue with The Rock. Somehow he makes that all disappear. Brock vs. Rock at WrestleMania, with Rock playing Obi-Way Kenobi to Brock's Darth Vader and Roman's Luke Skywalker.