DISCUSSION - Does Cesaro still have a legit shot of being the #1 Face, or has his window sailed?

[Heyman]

DISCUSSION - Does Cesaro still have a legit shot of being the #1 Face, or has his window sailed?

Cesaro has a lot going for him:

1) He has the most 'over' move in the company with that Airplane shit
2) The fans actually like Cesaro a lot due to the fact that he's not perceived to be a 'hand-picked' Corporate guy. He's a lot like Daniel Bryan in this regard.
3) Cesaro is a very good in ring worker

Cesaro does have a few 'missing ingredients' (i.e. mic skills), but it's not like Reigns is the complete package either. So my question to you guys, is if Cesaro can still be a legit *successful* #1 face in the company or has the Cesaro ship sailed?

I wouldn't mind seeing a guy like Steve Austin come back for a few months and taking Cesaro 'under his wing'. Austin comes to the ring and cuts a promo and talks about how there's one guy on the roster who he thinks is awesome but isn't living up to his potential. He calls out Cesaro. Austin puts Cesaro over and somehow someway, they form a mentor/student alliance of some kind.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

He doesn't look like Jason Mamoa so he ain't Vince's kettle of fish. He'll be around forever and be used as a guy to have great matches with people when need be, but he'll never get over the hump. Plus, I don't know if the WWE is the kind of company where someone like Cesaro would flourish as a top face. He honestly is a workrate guy, whereas a guy like Daniel Bryan was versatile enough to figure out the character work. While Cesaro has a certain charisma about him, it's nowhere near the level of Daniel Bryan. I DO believe he should be far more protected than he is because your champion is only as strong as his contenders and supporting cast. He could be a Mr. Perfect type character who is pretty much at the top but not quite there.

[Blonde Moment]

He doesn't look like Jason Mamoa so he ain't Vince's kettle of fish. He'll be around forever and be used as a guy to have great matches with people when need be, but he'll never get over the hump. Plus, I don't know if the WWE is the kind of company where someone like Cesaro would flourish as a top face. He honestly is a workrate guy, whereas a guy like Daniel Bryan was versatile enough to figure out the character work. While Cesaro has a certain charisma about him, it's nowhere near the level of Daniel Bryan. I DO believe he should be far more protected than he is because your champion is only as strong as his contenders and supporting cast. He could be a Mr. Perfect type character who is pretty much at the top but not quite there.

Bret Hart was a workrate guy

[Big Vic]

This window is sailing

http://ak1.ostkcdn.com/images/products/L11029976.jpg

[road doggy dogg]

life's a beach

[Jordan]

I don't think so. He's just really wooden on the mic and his whole gimmick seems incredibly forced and unnatural. He's someone who should be pushed as a competitor, like Bruno. If they pushed him that way then yes I could see him becoming "a top guy" but with this goofy bond gimmick and horrible scripted and delivered promo's then no, he's fucked.

[Mr. Nerfect]

People like Cesaro as a general entity and they LOVE him in the ring, but he is missing that ability to negotiate the WWE waters on the mic and as a personality. In time, he might find that missing component that gets him carte blanche to talk how he wants on the mic and seem more relaxed and natural, but as it stands I wouldn't be surprised to see him lose the IC Title match at Payback.

[Ultra Mantis]

In a land where windows sail maybe, but in this dimensional plane that was never on the cards to begin with. If "the office" decided he was going to be the next guy he would be, regardless of any holes in his game. See: Roman Reigns.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They seem like they want to go with him a bit, but they now have a timeframe for Cena's return, they probably know when Orton is coming back, Rollins won't be far off, they have Zayn and Owens who can talk. Cesaro is easily the most exciting worker on the planet, but I'm not entirely sure they will stick behind him.

I'd still like to see him work every member of The League of Nations and go over against each before they move past him though. Put the IC Title on him in Chicago for a nice pop too. Eventually people are going to get that there's something about the guy (I'm talking the casual fan).

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Bret Hart was a workrate guy

And he spent most of his championship reigns in the mid card, while Vince had either Undertaker or fossils in the main event.

[Bad News Gertner]

Not good enough on the mic.

[Stickman]

He is better than RR on the mic and in the ring.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Doesn't look like Jason Mamoa though

[Bad News Gertner]

He is better than RR on the mic and in the ring.

So is Heath Slater

[Big Vic]

So is Ryback.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

So is Harvey Whippleman.

[Bad News Gertner]

Ryback for World Champ!!!

[#1-norm-fan]

Cesaro isn't "#1 guy" material. Stop with this.

[Hanso Amore]

Yeah, he never could have been number one, but he's finally getting a chance to be number 2 or 3. He can easily be on Ambrose's level

[Wishbone]

He never had a chance. The machine has been against him from day one. The only guy that ever had a chance at being the #1 face was Roman Reigns, and that is a fact. It doesn't matter how good you are or how much the fans like you. All that matters is if Vince creams his jeans while looking at you.

[Lock Jaw]

Never could have been number one.... Could have been main event, though.....

Think he has lost a whole lot with his return and image/gimmick change, and not sure if he can make it to the main event now....

[Mr. Nerfect]

I honestly don't get how Vince doesn't cream his pants looking at Cesaro. The guy is a dream. But yeah, agree with the assessment he could be in the main event, but isn't "#1 guy" potential.

[hb2k]

Happy with the general comments here because they echo the sentiments I've had for years. I think the categorisation I felt was most appropriate for him was "he's everything but money".

I don't see how he connects in a main event capacity, and the best illustration was when they got him some momentum and put him against Owens at Summerslam, and on the night the crowd was ice cold for him. Because paired against somebody with charisma, personality, and intangible elements, people realise there is very little to get into with Cesaro once you've stopped being impressed with his moves. I don't think Cesaro sells in a way to generate sympathy, he doesn't have the fire of a Steve Austin (which is an unfair standard, but we're talking top guys), and those are two things that Bret Hart, as a "workrate guy" as mentioned above, had in spades.

Bret also had a look that got him more ass than a bus station toilet seat. Cesaro has a look that means he has to rip his own clothes off.

I had a friend who kind of a casual fan in school, and he would always ask me "So what about this guy, what's his story".

For a guy like Austin, or Rock, or Foley, you could talk all day long. If somebody asked you that about Cesaro, what do you say? "He thinks he's James Bond, he rips his own clothes off, he's super strong and he throws a lot of Europearn uppercuts." I just don't get a sense that even his biggest supporters could go around saying he was so awesome the company could be built around him

[Shisen Kopf]

Doesn't look like Jason Mamoa though

Yeah, he looks more like Joe Mama

[Mr. Nerfect]

To be fair, Liam, a lot of Cesaro's presentation isn't down to him. There's a story to be told there of his journey and such, as I'm sure you know. In time he might find that magic spark that makes people click. Who knows?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

His promo style is very "Here are the words they wrote for me" which most of the better guys are able to work through.

He is great, but maybe as a guy in Ambrose's position, and Ambrose should be a Foley type main eventer.

[hb2k]

To be fair, Liam, a lot of Cesaro's presentation isn't down to him. There's a story to be told there of his journey and such, as I'm sure you know. In time he might find that magic spark that makes people click. Who knows?

Yeah I'd agree with that. Kinda that thing where, if this was ECW, you know Heyman would book him in such a way where they'd disguise the shortcomings and package him in a certain way to make him come off like the toughest mofo alive.

Maybe that's part of it actually - for a guy with little flash or sizzle and the Jason Statham look, they don't treat him like a tough guy to mask it. You wouldn't cast Statham for Magic Mike for a reason, it doesn't fit, but their efforts to hide Cesaro are to falsely inject personality and not build around what he actually is.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think that's it. In the ring, I genuinely feel that Cesaro is one of the best workers I have ever seen. The way he chooses to register some things, but he doesn't sell them traditionally, is fucking bad-ass. When he goes on a tear with the uppercuts all over the place, it's impossible to not get excited. But they make him out to be such a forced dork outside the ring. English isn't even this guy's third language. They really should take more care presenting him, because it'd be worth it in the end.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If they do King of the Ring this year, my vote is for Cesaro to win it. And win it next year as well.

[Heyman]

I admittedly haven't watched wrestling in years, and so I have no clue about Cesaro's current "James Bond" gimmick, but the dude was way over when he was using Jack Swagger's theme, and had Zeb Colter by his side.

Now that Swagger is pretty much a jobber and/or irrelevant, I actually wouldn't mind seeing Cesaro go back to that personna. Have Colter be Cesaro's manager, and have Cesaro use the 'We the People' theme.

I think Cesaro could be the 'Randy Couture' of the WWE to be perfectly honest. He might not be the most charismatic guy out there, but it's all about marketing. Cesaro has some solid power moves in the ring even outside that Airplane shit. I don't think it would be too difficult to market Cesaro as a classy, no-nonsense kind of champion that simply goes out there and whoops ass.

And like I said - the one thing Cesaro really has going for him, is that he's been built organically. He doesn't have the perception of being force fed down our throats in the manner that Reigns has.

[XL]

If they do King of the Ring this year, my vote is for Cesaro to win it. And win it next year as well.

Don't wish that on him!

[Simple Fan]

Swiss Superman 007 King Cesaro. Would be just like King BNB where they just stack gimmick on top of gimmick.

[#1-norm-fan]

I honestly don't get how Vince doesn't cream his pants looking at Cesaro. The guy is a dream. But yeah, agree with the assessment he could be in the main event, but isn't "#1 guy" potential.

You just answered your own question. He cares about the top guy. Everything else is just filler. Who gives a shit? I think Vince Russo has mentioned how Vince scolded him for focusing too much on the midcard because it doesn't matter. Granted, Russo's words can be taken with a grain of salt. But knowing what we know at this point, do you really doubt it?

[Evil Vito]

Several former writers have said that Vince would occasionally be there at the start of booking meetings, start by asking what Cena is doing, and once Cena's plans for the night are decided he'd just leave the meeting.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It for the most part has always been a top guy company so I understand, but Vince is short sited if he can't see the benefit of a strong mid card as the glue that can keep shows intact.

[drave]

This is also a crucial point for the company as a whole to start establishing new "top guys", and I don't mean Reigns. I don't think Cesaro could be "the guy" as is, but he should definitely be in the mix.

[Maluco]

He definitely won't be the guy wearing an I'll fitting rip off suit. It's a bit of a comedy gimmick and I think it makes him look stupid tbh.

I thought he has found his look before he was injured. It fitted the things he did (uppercut cover) and it made him look more modern and cooler. Cool enough to not have to speak very much.

Hope he isn't a case like AJ where he only truly finds his look way later in his career.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm worried about where Cesaro will be situated once Cena, Orton and Rollins are back. I'm hoping that they at least incubate Cesaro with some consistent wins over "big names" that aren't going anywhere -- like Sheamus and Alberto Del Rio.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm going to be honest, I would rather see Cesaro vs. Miz in a standard IC Title match than the Fatal 4-Way. Run Cesaro vs. Zayn vs. Owens as a Triple Threat #1 Contender's Match, have Cesaro win when Owens and Zayn take each other out, and keep the separate singles programs going.

[Mr. Nerfect]

To be honest, to keep the flow of their live specials going, you could run that Triple Threat at Extreme Rules. I think there'd be enough interest there. But then you might as well do the Fatal 4-Way. Hmm.

[Sixx]

No, because he's balding.

Either shave it all or grow it long in the back and bleach it.

[drave]

I'd like to see Orton and Cesaro, feel like their styles would compliment one another very well. I would also like to see a few victories over Cena, since that can be "de facto" unless your name is Sandow.

[#1-norm-fan]

I will say though that while his Mizdow gimmick is what really got him over (and he took the lame gimmick and turned it into gold). I will always prefer the savior of the masses. I don't know if I'm in the TPWW minority there. But they should have at least brought it back after the Mizdow thing. He fucking killed it with that gimmick.

[ron the dial]

savior of the masses was by far his best gimmick

[#1-norm-fan]

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Come onnnnnn

[Mr. Nerfect]

I will say though that while his Mizdow gimmick is what really got him over (and he took the lame gimmick and turned it into gold). I will always prefer the savior of the masses. I don't know if I'm in the TPWW minority there. But they should have at least brought it back after the Mizdow thing. He fucking killed it with that gimmick.

Man, he could have been a great "Heart and Soul of the Mid-Card" gimmick with a babyface presentation of his Savior of the Masses gimmick after Mania 31.

[Mr. Nerfect]

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[Mr. Nerfect]

They could have given him two attractive female "students."

[Mr. Nerfect]

Maybe Peyton Royce and a newly signed Scarlett Bordeaux. Imply that his intelligence makes him a Dionysian rock star. "Stay in school kids."

[Mr. Nerfect]

It kind of bothers me that Cesaro does the James Bond entrance now, but he's not using his remix of "The James Bond of WWE" Dean Malenko's theme he did. Hate his siren theme. They're drilling it into us until we get used to it, but it is horrible. He could have even come back using Tyson Kidd's theme. "Path of Destruction" sounds like something you'd much more easily associate with a guy like Cesaro than Kidd anyway.

[Lock Jaw]

Loved his siren theme before he left, and it really fit well with his entrance with the towel on his head and everything, and it felt like "watch out, this badass is coming to uppercut the F outta some people"

Now it doesn't really fit at all, and he looks goofy doing his entrance gimmick.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Cesaro should be in a suit whenever he's not wrestling -- he looks class as ass. But the tear-away thing is losing its luster quickly. New music that just makes you go "Yeah! Cesaro's going to uppercut people!" would be fine. Or Sledge Hammer.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Classical music would fit Cesaro too. In the same vein as Daniel Bryan. You could give him "Flight of the Valkyries" as an endorsement from Bryan, but maybe "Requiem for a Dream," as a nod (jab in WWE's mind) to Chris Hero.

[Mr. Nerfect]

French rap to Requiem for a Dream.

[Lock Jaw]

Being in a suit is a fine when he is backstage or doing a non-wrestling segment.... but when he is doing his entrance, it should be business time. Feel like he had the perfect look/combo going on before he left, so naturally they had to change it....

[Mr. Nerfect]

Hmm. Something wasn't quite there yet. Probably his booking. I think the return has helped him, and honestly the goofiness has sort of made him more relateable to the kiddies. But they need to do *something* with him.

[Lock Jaw]

Dunno, whatever it is, just feel like I "care a lot less" and "don't get into him" as much as before.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm really worried about what happens to him when Cena's back. I'd honestly like them to feud just so we know he'll get spotlight.

[Evil Vito]

It for the most part has always been a top guy company so I understand, but Vince is short sited if he can't see the benefit of a strong mid card as the glue that can keep shows intact.

At this point I really don't see why it NEEDS to be a top guy company in 2016. When there was competition it made sense to have one guy be THE guy that drives the entire brand. Even in the mid 2000s I understood building everything around one guy (Cena) because TNA still looked like they could develop into a threat.

But with no real competition now why must everything revolve around one dude? Is having multiple guys who can be relied upon at the top of the card not a good thing for them? If anything it'd keep people from lapsing. Anybody who can't stand Reigns is bound to start tuning out eventually now that it's obvious he's in for a 7-8 year run at the top, at minimum.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Having a strong mid card in 1998-2000 is what helped push the company over the edge to become the permanent #1

[Mr. Nerfect]

Cesaro in a suit now bothers me. He rocks it, obviously, but he's now in one like "Look at me, I'm wearing a suit." He should have been ready to go on RAW. I know the suit is a part of that now, but it feels way too gimmicky.

[Evil Vito]

Having a strong mid card in 1998-2000 is what helped push the company over the edge to become the permanent #1

Agreed.

And honestly if Vince does only care what Reigns is doing...that's actually an indictment on creative for just taking the easy way out with such boring paint by the numbers booking.

Some of the most entertaining shit they've done came from the theory of "is anybody important actually watching this?" Like Raven and Steven Richards writing their own storylines for Heat, or all of that glorious stuff that happened near the end of the first incarnation of NXT.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Loved his siren theme before he left, and it really fit well with his entrance with the towel on his head and everything, and it felt like "watch out, this badass is coming to uppercut the F outta some people"

Now it doesn't really fit at all, and he looks goofy doing his entrance gimmick.

Still not completely on board with the European ambulance siren in his theme. I thought when they went from his original theme to the first version to use a siren, that really was a perfect theme for him. I also hate the whole imitating James Bond entrance and the tearaway suit is ridiculous as is him walking in time with a Bond-esque spotlight on the minitron...just makes him all the more difficult to take seriously.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

They could have given him two attractive female "students."

TA's. Would be be less pervo.

[DAMN iNATOR]

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Seriously. Nobody here could argue with a straight face that that theme isn't miles better than his current one. Sounds way more intimidating and gives that feeling of "somebody's f**ked now!" Current one just sounds like the kind of thing that puts people to sleep.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

If they got rid of the siren. I wouldn't be able to type wee woo wee woo wee woo when watching Raw in a chat room.

He needs his Dean Malenko theme back or another remix of it. That would fit the Cesar007 gimmick he has. License to Uppercut. He takes his Martinis swung not shaken or stirred.

[DAMN iNATOR]

If you mean the rap theme, it was alright but to me didn't seem befitting of a Swiss rugby type guy or whatever his gimmick originally was.

[Lock Jaw]

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Seriously. Nobody here could argue with a straight face that that theme isn't miles better than his current one. Sounds way more intimidating and gives that feeling of "somebody's f**ked now!" Current one just sounds like the kind of thing that puts people to sleep.

Like his current one better (but not with his current gimmick)