Does anyone else think Bayley sucks?

[slik]

I like her entrance/theme music but I don't get the hype at all. She has the worst finisher of anyone currently in WWE. Charlotte seems way better in the ring/on the mic than the rest of the entire women's roster tbh.

[Cool King]

Yeah, I'm not a fan.

I really can't think of anything good to say about her. I'm just not interested in her and I find her entrance to be really annoying, but that's probably mostly due to Saxton.

[Destor]

Bayley has a quirky charisma. She's a bit sloppy and awkward but she is magnetic in a great way. She has *it*

[Juan]

Bayley has a quirky charisma. She's a bit sloppy and awkward but she is magnetic in a great way. She has *it*

[slik]

Then she should be Finn Balor's valet. Enough with this in-ring nonsense.

[Destor]

Then she should be Finn Balor's valet. Enough with this in-ring nonsense.
Nah, people want to pay to watch her work. That's nonsense.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

She's a pretty good worker.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

No more sloppy than Sascha Ms over rated for fucking days Banks (who is still decent, just a total slopfest sometimes)

[slik]

Let her be an in-ring interviewer with her own segment, ala Miz/Jericho/Ko called "Hug it Out" so she can still have her big entrance each week, but until she learns a better finisher she should be banned from wrestling in the ring.

Like how am I supposed to take her seriously...It would be like James Ellsworth defeating Braun Strowman with the worm. Charlotte just seems like she is on a different level than all the other women they have, in-ring and on the mic.

[slik]

Sasha sucks too, but sucks less than Bayley and I like her character more. Charlotte is the only female wrestler other than Alexa Bliss, Mickie James, Becky Lynch and Asuka who seems "good" tbh. I guess Nia Jax could get there if she goes the Braun route. Naomi was on track but seems "not as good" as she used to be for some reason.

[Shisen Kopf]

Women's rasslin is terrible. They should be valets and posing in playboy. That's about it.

[slik]

TV-MA Divas ONLY

Maryse was a good champion, un-retire Maryse ASAP please

[slik]

Sable was a better wrestler than Bayley too. See below:


<iframe width="480" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TRdv3_ExtuA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


<iframe width="480" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Mm9c6qarGH0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VBF0II5PVHo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[road doggy dogg]

her hair makes me think of a person with down syndrome

[Evil Vito]

her hair makes me think of a person with down syndrome

I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be her gimmick initially.

[Shisen Kopf]

She should be called Eugina then

[Stickman]

I agree with most of what has been said earlier. She has charisma but that's about it. You can tell she works hard and is trying her best, but she's super awkward. I disagree and actually like her finisher, it's kind of different.
The problem with her is I actually don't think she's an athlete. Sure, she has trained to be a wrester, is probably strong because you have to be to be a wrestler. I'm sure she's a gym rat. But I really really don't think she is an athlete. You can tell if somebody is an athlete by the way they move and she moves like an elementary school teacher who has never played a sport.

[#1-norm-fan]

Pretty much all women wrestlers are sloppy and awkward in the ring. I don't know than she's any more sloppy than the rest.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

her hair makes me think of a person with down syndrome

LOL jesus!

Triggered

[Wishbone]

Sounds like you've got way too much of a boner for Charlotte to have any sort of objective opinion on anyone else. :p

Nah, but seriously I think you're just not in the right demographic for her, and that's fine. One of the great things about wrestling in the past was that you had tons of different characters to choose from so there was something for everyone. Nowadays everyone is the same cookie cutter personality, and while you might like that specific personality many others don't.

Bayley appeals to a younger audience and to people like her who have always just wanted to have fun with life and live their dreams. If you can't relate to that fair enough, but to say that she shouldn't be there just because you don't personally like her act is a bit childish. And, yes, I'm aware of the hypocrisy in that statement with how much I hate on Roman Reigns, but in the end it's the truth.

As for her finisher being "the worst" um, do I need to remind you of all the shit finishers and signature moves wrestling has had over the years? The Worm, the People's Elbow, the Empire Elbow, any elbow drop move in general that's not off the top rope honestly, the Cobra, the Mandible Claw, the Styles Clash, the Atomic Leg drop, etc, etc. I mean hell, even Cena's finisher is just a standing fireman's carry. I fail to see why that gets a pass but a belly to bell suplex doesn't.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Honestly don't really like Sasha's character. Terrible promo

[slik]

Bayley reminds me of TV PG John Cena and she always has that annoying kid in the audience who likes her, Izzy.

WWE should release her and bring back Blood and Chairshots and Thumbtacks and Barbed Wire. If Kevin Owens was around ten years ago he would be wrestling in hardcore matches instead of "people in shark cages" matches.

[road doggy dogg]

a wrestling match against an actual shark

[slik]

No one even used the shark cage as a weapon. Lame.

[Wishbone]

Honestly don't really like Sasha's character. Terrible promo

Sasha's character is waaaay better suited to being a heel honestly. That's the biggest problem with her right now. It's like when they tried to play off Del Rio as a face despite still having the same character of "rich Mexican". The whole point of the character was that he was a stuck up aristocrat who hated Americans and then you take the exact same guy and just have him wear a t-shirt and expect people to latch on. It just doesn't work. Sasha is essentially playing a Kanye West/generic modern hip hop star, and that sort of person generally isn't well liked by most people, especially not the general audience that watch wrestling.

[road doggy dogg]

basically this

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/xbizfk91wK0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Bayley reminds me of TV PG John Cena and she always has that annoying kid in the audience who likes her, Izzy.

WWE should release her and bring back Blood and Chairshots and Thumbtacks and Barbed Wire. If Kevin Owens was around ten years ago he would be wrestling in hardcore matches instead of "people in shark cages" matches.

Best post ever LOL

[Shisen Kopf]

Yeah, rap is crap

[Shisen Kopf]

Bayley is boring. She should be called Borely.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Borely to Borely suplex

[Cool King]

a wrestling match against an actual shark

https://rotostreetjournal.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/2879665-7022264415-lesna.gif?w=401&h=200

[Shisen Kopf]

https://loopit.in/photo/tfdlDRrc0Xg:hq/default.jpg

[Mr. Nerfect]

Don't have time to read this whole thing, but yes, I do. Agree with the assessment that she has a charisma that allows her to connect with people, which is really important, but she's a female Zack Ryder.

I'm still bitter she cut off Becky Lynch's story to beating Sasha Banks, and while her ascension in NXT was charming and a wonderful story, you cannot exactly tell it again on the main roster. People have seen Bayley. Main roster WWE is also a much more stoic place. She'll have to survive without every other week being dedicated to the next well calculated block in her personal story. She's going to have to get used to filler, no-selling her losses and not relying on momentum to fuel her crowd reactions.

I was high on women's wrestling for a while, but it really is smoke and mirrors. A Diva is your SmackDown Women's Champion, the RAW Women's Title moves around about as much as the Hardcore Title did before they started changing it on house shows, the personalities are still hollow and one-dimensional and the only real star seems to be Charlotte. Sasha, Bayley and Becky are somewhat over, but I think people "like" them as opposed to truly believing in them.

If we didn't do this fucking brand split, we could be en route to a Clash of the Four Horsewomen at Mania this year. Charlotte vs. Sasha vs. Becky vs. Bayley in Orlando would be off the hook. Becky could have done her shit with Alexa and Mickie without a belt; Nia could still be finding her feet; Paige could still fuck up and fuck off; Emma could still be teased for months on end; Nikki could still do her Fearless shit, whatever that means; and Natalya could still be the veteran presence stretching people. And there would be one championship so people would still know who the best is. For people to care about a championship, I think they need to care about a division -- otherwise why does being the champion of that division mean anything? People do not care about the women's division, because 20% of the women on each roster holds a championship, and that is truthfully not much of an exaggeration. That's what being a Women's Champion means -- top 20th percentile. You'd be more over if you rolled a 1 on a die.

[Emperor Smeat]

No but then again her biggest appeal was always her character and WWE rolled back too much of it for her call up. RAW's women's division isn't deep enough to repeat the same storyline rise she had in NXT which is why she should have been called up before the Draft if that was their plan.

Also doesn't help the WWE only cares about Charlotte for RAW in terms of focus and stardom which has hurt the division for the brand.

[Wishbone]

Don't have time to read this whole thing, but yes, I do. Agree with the assessment that she has a charisma that allows her to connect with people, which is really important, but she's a female Zack Ryder.

I'm still bitter she cut off Becky Lynch's story to beating Sasha Banks, and while her ascension in NXT was charming and a wonderful story, you cannot exactly tell it again on the main roster. People have seen Bayley. Main roster WWE is also a much more stoic place. She'll have to survive without every other week being dedicated to the next well calculated block in her personal story. She's going to have to get used to filler, no-selling her losses and not relying on momentum to fuel her crowd reactions.

I was high on women's wrestling for a while, but it really is smoke and mirrors. A Diva is your SmackDown Women's Champion, the RAW Women's Title moves around about as much as the Hardcore Title did before they started changing it on house shows, the personalities are still hollow and one-dimensional and the only real star seems to be Charlotte. Sasha, Bayley and Becky are somewhat over, but I think people "like" them as opposed to truly believing in them.

If we didn't do this fucking brand split, we could be en route to a Clash of the Four Horsewomen at Mania this year. Charlotte vs. Sasha vs. Becky vs. Bayley in Orlando would be off the hook. Becky could have done her shit with Alexa and Mickie without a belt; Nia could still be finding her feet; Paige could still fuck up and fuck off; Emma could still be teased for months on end; Nikki could still do her Fearless shit, whatever that means; and Natalya could still be the veteran presence stretching people. And there would be one championship so people would still know who the best is. For people to care about a championship, I think they need to care about a division -- otherwise why does being the champion of that division mean anything? People do not care about the women's division, because 20% of the women on each roster holds a championship, and that is truthfully not much of an exaggeration. That's what being a Women's Champion means -- top 20th percentile. You'd be more over if you rolled a 1 on a die.

Noid being a massive Debby Downer over here. Seriously though, what you just said applies to the entire WWE, not just the women's divisions. Literally none of the titles mean jack, no one is used properly, and there are no stars except those that should have burnt out a long time ago. Not sure how you can be so down on the women's division and not feel the exact same for the men at this point.

[DAMN lNATOR]

Bayley is uglier than Nicole Bass. Ew.

[Maluco]

She is inoffensive and you can see why young girls like her. She is a light hearted, fun character.

But if the division was more well rounded, she wouldn't be anywhere near the title. Charlotte is not the finished article, but is lightyears ahead of Bayley in every department. It isn't believable to me as a fan that Bayley would beat her tbh.

It would be like Mojo Rawley beating John Cena for the Universal title

[Lock Jaw]

I like Bayley...... I think some of her gear (especially the jackets) are ugly as hell, though.... cringeworthy...... I know they are trying to make it seem like "she had no help from her parents making her costume", but there is a way to do that without it being so fugly.

Also Bayley just naturally has a weird speaking voice, not much can be done about that.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Charlotte really is miles ahead of all those biatches though. But it's not fair, as she is a Flair... to be fair to Flair.

[slik]

Does anyone else remember The Kat vs Terri Runnels from WrestleMania 2000?

[Emperor Smeat]

Charlotte really is miles ahead of all those biatches though. But it's not fair, as she is a Flair... to be fair to Flair.

Part of it is also due to the constant air-time she gets which has helped her improve a lot in the ring and in promo skills. RAW is pretty much how the women's division was handled pre-brand split with almost all the focus being on just the champ vs challenger du jour feuds.

Nikki Bella and AJ Lee showed the same jumps in improvement when they had a lot of time as champ or as the focus of a division.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

But they didn't do dat moonsault

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Nope fuck this thread. Bayley is great. Boo Slik! Boo!

[Stickman]

Charlotte will go down as the goat

[Simple Fan]

Nope fuck this thread. Bayley is great. Boo Slik! Boo!

Knew this was coming.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Good.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Nope fuck this thread. Bayley is great. Boo Slik! Boo!

EXACTLY. Fuck slik and all the other Batley haters!

And may I point out that she should NOT have been the last of the Four Horsewomen to be in a title feud and win the title (which she will @WM33 -- kiss my ass, haters), although it probably owes to two injuries right before she was originally supposed to be called up twice. But I shall be patient, for I know her journey will culminate in probably a 4-5 month title run after WM 33.

[Simple Fan]

Can't stand Bailey either. Didn't like her in NXT and she hasn't impressed me any on Raw. I get that she's supposed to be this super fan turned superstar but She comes off like a female Eugene only not retarded. Charlotte, Sasha, Becky, and Alexa are all miles ahead of her.

[Shisen Kopf]

I bet Bayley does suck good. Probably hugs it after she's done.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

I must have been black out drunk but I kindof remember Bayley getting the pop of the night at NXT Brooklyn. Everybody on their feet celebrating the match of the fucking year? I was drunk but I wasn't black out drunk.

So, I repeat fuck off.

[DAMN iNATOR]

STD and Wishbone get it.👍

[Stickman]

My 85 year old grandpa who recently ordered the network and loves NXT and Cruiserweights because "those guys actually fight" hates Bayley. I guess her gimmick doesn't translate to the senior demographics.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Whoa, Bayley might be overrated, but there is no way Alexa Bliss is leaps and bounds ahead of her. Let's just get that ironed out.

[Mr. Nerfect]

She also sends mixed messages. On one hand, women in WWE are supposed to be sexualized, but on the other, she acts like a child.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Am I the only one that doesn't think Bayley is actually being built for a RAW Women's Title run? I can honestly see them abandoning ship and maybe sticking her in a "women's mid-card" feud with Sasha Banks. I think Nia Jax is going to be higher priority, despite being far less skilled, and ultimately, I think Emmalina becomes a star in the division. I can see Dana Brooke turning on Charlotte and backing up Emmalina in a televised title match, and then Charlotte is the babyface chasing. I don't know when that will happen, but I think her credibility is going to be used to segue her into the top babyface position in the division, because Vince feels that Sasha is "too breakable" and Bayley "too annoying."

[Juan]

She also sends mixed messages. On one hand, women in WWE are supposed to be sexualized, but on the other, she acts like a child.

Isn't that her whole gimmick?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, but I can see that being why a lot of older people think it is weird and annoying.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Her whole "aww shucks" and "I deserve to be here" thing is pretty bland.

[DAMN lNATOR]

She has sloppy looking tits, a saggy ass and a face that deserves to be smashed with a frying pan. Get that digesting slug off my television!

[DAMN lNATOR]

http://s3cf.recapguide.com/img/tv/114/12x2/Family-Guy-Season-12-Episode-2-4-5867.jpg

[Bad News Gertner]

Yuck, Bayley is a 2/10 at best

[Wishbone]

Am I the only one that doesn't think Bayley is actually being built for a RAW Women's Title run? I can honestly see them abandoning ship and maybe sticking her in a "women's mid-card" feud with Sasha Banks. I think Nia Jax is going to be higher priority, despite being far less skilled, and ultimately, I think Emmalina becomes a star in the division. I can see Dana Brooke turning on Charlotte and backing up Emmalina in a televised title match, and then Charlotte is the babyface chasing. I don't know when that will happen, but I think her credibility is going to be used to segue her into the top babyface position in the division, because Vince feels that Sasha is "too breakable" and Bayley "too annoying."

Charlotte sucks as a face, dude. She's perfect as the "I'm better than you" heel, but her face run in NXT and her run in PCB were both really bad in my opinion. Besides that she's literally the top heel in the women's division and one of the top heels in the company period. I seriously doubt that they'll turn her face anytime soon, especially when the only options to replace her are Nia and Emmalina.

On the topic of Emmalina, that ship has sailed. Emma's dead in the water and to think otherwise is just foolish. Her momentum died a long time ago, and bringing her in as a generic "model" type is just going to ruin it further. I'm sorry but in the same way that many of you seem unable to buy Bayley as a legit threat I feel the same way about Emma. Her image has been damaged way too much to ever make her of any real worth at this point, and giving her this gimmick is not going to do her any favors as it'll just make her a copycat of what made the Diva's division so bland.

Finally I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that many older fans just don't get it, and that's kinda the point. Wrestling as it is now is not meant for older fans. As many here have attested you're all in or around your 30s. WWE just isn't meant for you guys. I'm in my mid 20s, but I'm also very much into nerdy things and I work with children on almost a daily basis so for me this stuff still clicks at times. For you though I imagine it's like trying to watch modern cartoons while having the mentality of a mainstream "full grown adult." You don't get it because you're just "too old," and I don't mean that as an insult but just as a general observation.

[#1-norm-fan]

You're probably right. But the problem is that, as 30-somethings in the 2010's, we've seen plenty of good "kids"/"family friendly" movies and TV shows that are capable of appealing to adults. And it's not that hard to accomplish in wrestling.

Wrestling in its most basic form is appealing to kids. You don't have to put in any work. It's violence, loud noises, paint-by-numbers comic book-style good vs. bad stories, and bright lights. The work is done. If you actually write compelling storylines and make the characters interesting, you won't alienate the kids. You'll keep them all while ALSO drawing in adults. But WWE seems to be content with not putting in the work to do that. Partially because they've got a small but passionate audience of adults who are willing to stick with it to the bitter end because they grew up addicted to this form of entertainment and can't flip over to WCW anymore.

[Wishbone]

You're probably right. But the problem is that, as 30-somethings in the 2010's, we've seen plenty of good "kids"/"family friendly" movies and TV shows that are capable of appealing to adults. And it's not that hard to accomplish in wrestling.

Wrestling in its most basic form is appealing to kids. You don't have to put in any work. It's violence, loud noises, paint-by-numbers comic book-style good vs. bad stories, and bright lights. The work is done. If you actually write compelling storylines and make the characters interesting, you won't alienate the kids. You'll keep them all while ALSO drawing in adults. But WWE seems to be content with not putting in the work to do that. Partially because they've got a small but passionate audience of adults who are willing to stick with it to the bitter end because they grew up addicted to this form of entertainment and can't flip over to WCW anymore.

I'd agree completely with a lot of what you just said. However, it feels like you guys are putting more emphasis on the characters being the issue when in reality it's the storytelling and presentation that are the problem. Bayley's character could work just fine if she was booked right, put in compelling stories, and actually portrayed in the right manner. Hell, even someone like Roman Reigns could be good if you did that. A great example is Bray Wyatt who as a character and talent is great, but because of the way WWE uses him he's utter shit. It has nothing to do with his character but is all on WWE for not understanding or caring how he should be used. I've said it in the past and I'll say it again, I honestly believe you could build a star (in relative terms) out of anyone. Had Zack Ryder been handled right he would still be useful today. Not world champion material, but he could have easily been one of the top mid-card babyfaces in the company. My point is that the way you guys make it sound you're saying that characters like Bayley aren't worth keeping around or pushing, and that somehow by getting them out of the way you'd improve the product. But that's not the case. You could have nothing but characters that appealed to you on the roster and it'd still be shit if WWE didn't fix the issue with the writing and booking. That stuff is the key. I'd be willing to bet money that if they did it right even you'd be cheering on Bayley or even Roman Reigns.

[Triple A]

I think she was great in NXT but has been bad in WWE. Like her matches were really good in NXT, I think... but for some reason they have mostly been bad in WWE, imo. I don't know why. Maybe whoever "books" the spots in the matches in WWE sucks or something.

Like that one Bayley vs. Sasha Banks match at an NXT TakeOver a while ago was considered to be "match of the year" by a bunch of people. Shasha Banks's matches have also not been that good in WWE imo.

[Stickman]

I'd agree completely with a lot of what you just said. However, it feels like you guys are putting more emphasis on the characters being the issue when in reality it's the storytelling and presentation that are the problem. Bayley's character could work just fine if she was booked right, put in compelling stories, and actually portrayed in the right manner. Hell, even someone like Roman Reigns could be good if you did that. A great example is Bray Wyatt who as a character and talent is great, but because of the way WWE uses him he's utter shit. It has nothing to do with his character but is all on WWE for not understanding or caring how he should be used. I've said it in the past and I'll say it again, I honestly believe you could build a star (in relative terms) out of anyone. Had Zack Ryder been handled right he would still be useful today. Not world champion material, but he could have easily been one of the top mid-card babyfaces in the company. My point is that the way you guys make it sound you're saying that characters like Bayley aren't worth keeping around or pushing, and that somehow by getting them out of the way you'd improve the product. But that's not the case. You could have nothing but characters that appealed to you on the roster and it'd still be shit if WWE didn't fix the issue with the writing and booking. That stuff is the key. I'd be willing to bet money that if they did it right even you'd be cheering on Bayley or even Roman Reigns.

I don't think anyone is saying she shouldn't be around and I don't think she needs to be "fixed.". Her presentation is actually good as she is being presented towards kids. I don't think she has been booked poorly at all as she appeals to a demographic. The problem is that gimmick doesn't come across as a credible threat to the championship, nor does her actual abilities. She just isn't very good in the ring or the mic at this point in time. Maybe she will get better in time but should be no where near the main event and championship.

[Stickman]

I think she was great in NXT but has been bad in WWE. Like her matches were really good in NXT, I think... but for some reason they have mostly been bad in WWE, imo. I don't know why. Maybe whoever "books" the spots in the matches in WWE sucks or something.

Like that one Bayley vs. Sasha Banks match at an NXT TakeOver a while ago was considered to be "match of the year" by a bunch of people. Shasha Banks's matches have also not been that good in WWE imo.

Maybe this is true. I don't watch NXT, I have seen like half an episode. If she was having great matches there but can't translate to the main show something is wrong with the WWE. A good wrestler should be able to put on a good match anywhere any time, I believe she is a "wwe" trained wrestler so she knows exactly how they want her to work so she should have a leg up. So far I see an awkward non athlete trying to wrassle.

[Wishbone]

In response to Stickman:

First and foremost her presentation is most certainly not good. She's not getting anywhere near the treatment she did in NXT. Instead they've thrust her onto the main roster and just keep telling everyone "look at Bayley! She's from NXT and is great! Cheer for her!" Of course this issue applies to 99.9% of the call-ups these days. WWE just seems to think that all of their fans watch NXT and thus think that they can skip all the character building and just portray these characters "as is" to the masses. If you tell Joe Schmoe "this girl is great" and immediately thrust her into the main event without context of course he's gonna reject it as you have perfectly shown.

WWE needs to stop treating NXT as a part of the main roster's canon. I get why they do it, and for people who watch it regularly it's cool, but the fact of the matter is the majority of people don't watch NXT, and to present these wrestlers as if people should already know who they are is just ignorant as all hell. Bring back vignettes. Hell, tell some stories over again if you have to on the main roster. The idea that you can't do so is just stupid when in reality the vast majority of fans would never have seen said stories in the first place. Of course none of that matters if the writing is still shit which is the case on the main roster, but it'd be a start.

Another issue is that Bayley definitely HAS been hindered on the main roster, as have many other NXT alumni. As you pointed out yourself that too is a WWE problem and not an issue with the talent. I'm not sure what's going on on the main roster that's causing this, but almost everyone has been drastically hindered in their in-ring work once making the jump from NXT to RAW or Smackdown. Even Sasha and Charlotte have had this issue.

[Stickman]

I get what you are saying and agree. I do miss the days when they allowed characters to develop. It amazes me how they have hree long hours for Raw and don't do vignettes or really make you invested in a talent. I think they have done more with Bayley than a lot of other, better, talent. They've pretty much pointed out on the main show she was a wrestling fan her whole life and has always wanted to be a wwe wreslter. They portrayed her kind of as a nerdy, super fan who is just happy to be there and kids can look up to her cuz she made it, and she is a nice person who hugs it out. That is way way more than they have done for almost anybody.

[Wishbone]

I get what you are saying and agree. I do miss the days when they allowed characters to develop. It amazes me how they have hree long hours for Raw and don't do vignettes or really make you invested in a talent. I think they have done more with Bayley than a lot of other, better, talent. They've pretty much pointed out on the main show she was a wrestling fan her whole life and has always wanted to be a wwe wreslter. They portrayed her kind of as a nerdy, super fan who is just happy to be there and kids can look up to her cuz she made it, and she is a nice person who hugs it out. That is way way more than they have done for almost anybody.

Fair point, but pointing out her character traits really means nothing without actually seeing them develop organically. If you were reading a book or watching a movie would a single page or scene listing off a character's traits really be enough? I mean if we just got a scene with a narrator saying "this is Tony Stark. He is an alcoholic who lost his parents and once escaped terrorists who used his weapons to cause harm which lead to him being Iron Man" would you really be invested? It works far better in the movies because we actually get to see all those things actually happening. Exposition really isn't a substitute for actual storytelling. Still you're right about them doing more for her than many, but you can see how doing just that small amount has helped her quite a bit. She gets pretty good reactions all things considered, and given the crowds we often see I'd say she's doing pretty well on the merchandise front as well. Now imagine if she'd had an organic rise ala Daniel Bryan. She's not as talented as Bryan mind you and I'd never claim such, but she could easily reach far greater heights with that same sort of storytelling, as could anyone for that matter.

[Ruien]

Hated Bayley before. But she is growing on me but that is because she is better than Sasha.

[Ruien]

Not fair to compare anyone to Charlotte though. Of course she is better. Honestly, SD and Raw have it soo right with their champions. Bliss is the best, only by a little, on SD and Charlotte is just miles better than everyone on both rosters.

[Wishbone]

I don't get this massive boner everyone has for Charlotte. I mean she's damn good, don't get me wrong, but she's not nearly as far ahead of everyone as y'all keep saying she is. You act like she's Stone Cold standing next to Roman Reigns or something and that's not even remotely accurate. Plenty of the women on the roster are extremely talented right now, especially when compared to previous generations of WWE's women's talent.

[DAMN iNATOR]

I don't get this massive boner everyone has for Charlotte. I mean she's damn good, don't get me wrong, but she's not nearly as far ahead of everyone as y'all keep saying she is. You act like she's Stone Cold standing next to Roman Reigns or something and that's not even remotely accurate. Plenty of the women on the roster are extremely talented right now, especially when compared to previous generations of WWE's women's talent.

People just want to act like she's the second coming of Trish Stratus just because she's already held the title 4x and learned how to cut amazing promos from daddy dearest, but it's just not true.

[DAMN lNATOR]

People just want to act like she's the second coming of Trish Stratus just because she's already held the title 4x and learned how to cut amazing promos from daddy dearest, but it's just not true.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/1b/7c/4c/1b7c4c1e55288fe38550b67e75575186.jpg

[Savio]

All female face characters are dumb and redundant. 'Ive trained so hard and now I finally made it"

Feud with charolette is dumb too, "you are a fan of wrestling, what a loser"

[Bad News Gertner]

They should go back to Diva pillow fights. The kind of stuff they did when people cared about Women's wrestling.

[Ruien]

I don't get this massive boner everyone has for Charlotte. I mean she's damn good, don't get me wrong, but she's not nearly as far ahead of everyone as y'all keep saying she is. You act like she's Stone Cold standing next to Roman Reigns or something and that's not even remotely accurate. Plenty of the women on the roster are extremely talented right now, especially when compared to previous generations of WWE's women's talent.

She is like Seth Rollins and everyone else is X Pac.

[Mercenary]

Sable was a better wrestler than Bayley too. See below:


<iframe width="480" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TRdv3_ExtuA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


<iframe width="480" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Mm9c6qarGH0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VBF0II5PVHo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



Now you crossed a line. Sable was shit always has been shit and further more https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-r9JpzKiHB4s/VO5f19uBNBI/AAAAAAAAAJc/rUe7ZSvLrsk/s1600/2473638-brock-lesnar.png

Ohhhhhhhhh fuccc.......


http://i.imgur.com/XDs3c0l.jpg

[Wishbone]

She is like Seth Rollins and everyone else is X Pac.

Nah, she's really not. You keep on telling yourself that though. Maybe if you believe hard enough it'll come true. :lol:

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Yuck, Bayley is a 2/10 at best

We weren't talking about her looks. Still not even close.

[Ruien]

Nah, she's really not. You keep on telling yourself that though. Maybe if you believe hard enough it'll come true. :lol:

Okay? I guess everyone besides you and Merc are wrong.

[Wishbone]

When you make objective statements based solely on your own opinion you most certainly are wrong. If you prefer Charlotte that's fine, but to say she's objectively "leaps and bounds" ahead of everyone else is just outright false.

[Ruien]

So my statements are false? Which mean yours are correct? But making these statements on opinions (which is all this is) isn't right? Do you understand? Probably not but it's there for you to figure out.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Charlotte is the queen.

[Nicky Fives]

She's all right. Not nearly as good as the other 4 Horsewomen, but she has the ability to connect to the audience. I bet she sells more merch than any other woman on the roster other than the Bellas. Just for that alone she should stick around

[Mr. Nerfect]

Charlotte sucks as a face, dude. She's perfect as the "I'm better than you" heel, but her face run in NXT and her run in PCB were both really bad in my opinion. Besides that she's literally the top heel in the women's division and one of the top heels in the company period. I seriously doubt that they'll turn her face anytime soon, especially when the only options to replace her are Nia and Emmalina.

On the topic of Emmalina, that ship has sailed. Emma's dead in the water and to think otherwise is just foolish. Her momentum died a long time ago, and bringing her in as a generic "model" type is just going to ruin it further. I'm sorry but in the same way that many of you seem unable to buy Bayley as a legit threat I feel the same way about Emma. Her image has been damaged way too much to ever make her of any real worth at this point, and giving her this gimmick is not going to do her any favors as it'll just make her a copycat of what made the Diva's division so bland.

Finally I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that many older fans just don't get it, and that's kinda the point. Wrestling as it is now is not meant for older fans. As many here have attested you're all in or around your 30s. WWE just isn't meant for you guys. I'm in my mid 20s, but I'm also very much into nerdy things and I work with children on almost a daily basis so for me this stuff still clicks at times. For you though I imagine it's like trying to watch modern cartoons while having the mentality of a mainstream "full grown adult." You don't get it because you're just "too old," and I don't mean that as an insult but just as a general observation.

I disagree. Her face run in NXT was pretty good by the end. In fact, Charlotte/Sasha was fueled on the emotion of Sasha being a heel trying to take that belt off her. It's hard to find babyface champions that can carry as well as Charlotte. But that was NXT, and I agree that she sucked as a babyface in PCB. But then again, Sasha and Bayley suck as babyfaces on the main roster too. What are you to do? Push the girl that people believe in.

You point out that Nia and Emmalina are the only ones who can replace her -- those are the girls that are going to be getting pushes on RAW very soon, I hate to break it to ya. If they are getting heel pushes, Charlotte as a babyface makes more sense, not less.

I don't really know what you mean about the Emmalina momentum stuff. She hasn't debuted yet. They're running up the time on her impending return, but that is keeping things on ice until they are ready to have her show up. I don't really see how you can evaluate her momentum at this point -- she's not even back with this new gimmick yet. Wait and see how she is presented and what they do with her. Will they fuck it up? Probably. But I don't think you can say "Nah, she's done" before they have even debuted her and put her over anyone.

The thing is that girls like Nikki Bella, Alicia Fox, Alexa Bliss and Carmella are still around. We still have Divas. A girl who can make that their gimmick is going to thrive over them all. That's where the heat is -- a girl who embraces the old tropes of women's wrestling that the new girls are trying to move away from. It makes her the adversary of women's wrestling. It's why Eva Marie was getting so much heat. Emmalina could potentially be like Eva Marie except with wrestling skill. I'd have her come out and declare herself Divas Champion, fuck it. You are still marketing Divas with Total Divas after all.

They can book to children all they want, but they're mainly watched by older men. Kids don't actually go for the shit they are putting forward. This is just my anecdotal experience versus yours, but just because you put a girl in bright colors and have her spout affirming messages doesn't mean that kids are going to think it is "cool." That's condescending and assumes that children can't handle depth and nuance.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't get this massive boner everyone has for Charlotte. I mean she's damn good, don't get me wrong, but she's not nearly as far ahead of everyone as y'all keep saying she is. You act like she's Stone Cold standing next to Roman Reigns or something and that's not even remotely accurate. Plenty of the women on the roster are extremely talented right now, especially when compared to previous generations of WWE's women's talent.

The difference is that Charlotte can survive the shit they throw at her. She's not lost because they don't have the same handle on what they want to achieve on the main roster as in NXT. On the main roster, they want products; not processes. Charlotte, as a product, is probably as close as you are going to get towards a complete package for a women's wrestler in the modern era. As packages, Bayley and Sasha ran thin very quickly. VERY quickly. They have also both been exposed when they have had to improvise and actually work as opposed to having very thoroughly choreographed matches. Both work hard and aren't talentless, don't get me wrong, but they've had their hand held through becoming relative stars in NXT. Good booking helped with that, but when that booking is removed they are kind of deer in the headlights.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Bayley was already selling more merchandise than any of the other women were when she was in NXT though. It'll be interesting to see if she sells more now that she has an even wider presence, or whether her persona peters out.

[Wishbone]

So my statements are false? Which mean yours are correct? But making these statements on opinions (which is all this is) isn't right? Do you understand? Probably not but it's there for you to figure out.

Okay, I'll bite. How exactly is Charlotte objectively "leaps and bounds" better than the rest of the roster. Please enlighten me. You can see based on their actual work that Charlotte is definitely better than most of the other women, but where is this stat that says she's so far ahead? I've been watching pretty much every week since she premiered on the main roster and I haven't seen anything that indicates this, but maybe I missed it somewhere. Please enlighten me.

[Wishbone]

I disagree. Her face run in NXT was pretty good by the end. In fact, Charlotte/Sasha was fueled on the emotion of Sasha being a heel trying to take that belt off her. It's hard to find babyface champions that can carry as well as Charlotte. But that was NXT, and I agree that she sucked as a babyface in PCB. But then again, Sasha and Bayley suck as babyfaces on the main roster too. What are you to do? Push the girl that people believe in.

You point out that Nia and Emmalina are the only ones who can replace her -- those are the girls that are going to be getting pushes on RAW very soon, I hate to break it to ya. If they are getting heel pushes, Charlotte as a babyface makes more sense, not less.

I don't really know what you mean about the Emmalina momentum stuff. She hasn't debuted yet. They're running up the time on her impending return, but that is keeping things on ice until they are ready to have her show up. I don't really see how you can evaluate her momentum at this point -- she's not even back with this new gimmick yet. Wait and see how she is presented and what they do with her. Will they fuck it up? Probably. But I don't think you can say "Nah, she's done" before they have even debuted her and put her over anyone.

The thing is that girls like Nikki Bella, Alicia Fox, Alexa Bliss and Carmella are still around. We still have Divas. A girl who can make that their gimmick is going to thrive over them all. That's where the heat is -- a girl who embraces the old tropes of women's wrestling that the new girls are trying to move away from. It makes her the adversary of women's wrestling. It's why Eva Marie was getting so much heat. Emmalina could potentially be like Eva Marie except with wrestling skill. I'd have her come out and declare herself Divas Champion, fuck it. You are still marketing Divas with Total Divas after all.

They can book to children all they want, but they're mainly watched by older men. Kids don't actually go for the shit they are putting forward. This is just my anecdotal experience versus yours, but just because you put a girl in bright colors and have her spout affirming messages doesn't mean that kids are going to think it is "cool." That's condescending and assumes that children can't handle depth and nuance.

On Charlotte we'll have to agree to disagree. I thought her entire face run in NXT came off as forced and just... meh. I mean it was better than the PCB nonsense, but that's not saying much. Sasha I'd also agree has been pretty bleh as a face in general. Her gimmick and character are just better suited to being a heel. Bayley's been about as fine as you can be as a face on Monday Night RAW though. I mean, yeah, she's sucked, but that's a show-wide issue. All things considered she's doing relatively well thus far. Could have used with waaay more build before her title feud though, but that was never gonna happen anyway.

Um, you're the one that pointed those two out as replacements. I never said anything about replacing Charlotte, and in fact I think the idea of replacing her is silly. She's the perfect top heel for the division hands down. Why mess with a good thing? Nia isn't ready, and even when she is ready she's got a built in ceiling because quite frankly monsters are always just obstacles for heroes. She'll never be the top heel in the company. She'll be that monster that the triumphant face overcomes, or the bruiser the real top heel like Charlotte hires as muscle.

On the topic of Emma. She's got no momentum. You act like people are just gonna forget about all the previous stuff she's done. You act like she'll just be starting with a new slate and that's just not true. She's still gonna be Emma to the masses and no amount of fake model nonsense is gonna change that. Bray Wyatt managed to do it but that's because he is just a genius at his craft. How many others have been repackaged in this way after such a mediocre career and actually succeeded? Remember Tensai? That was years of absence and it still didn't work. People aren't that forgetful despite what the WWE seems to believe these days. I will agree that that sort of gimmick could work pretty well, but Emma isn't the one to do it though. Also I think you're giving way too much credit to Eva Marie's heat. She wasn't getting heel heat, dude, she was getting "get the hell off my tv" heat.

Finally on the last topic. Um, it doesn't really matter if there are more grown men watching (though I'd like to see some actual evidence of this statement.) The fact of the matter is kids are the ones buying the merchandise and making WWE their money. The smarks and dirty old men like us aren't where the money's at. If we were WWE would abandoned PG and start listening to our misguided cries for a return to the attitude era. I've seen countless guys on this forum say how embarassed they'd be to wear a wrestling shirt in public. Meanwhile I've seen dozens of kids rocking backpacks, shirts, and god knows what else without batting an eyelash. While WWE is slipping it's not because they're marketing to the wrong demographic, it's because they're just inept at making their product. Also I'm a bit insulted that you'd accuse me of thinking kids can't handle nuance and depth when I've been a major proponent and defender of the ability of children in the past on this very forum. Saying that Bayley's gimmick or any other gimmick isn't capable of having depth is the truly insulting statement, especially when your alternative is a model gimmick and turning the prototypical "I was born better than you" character into a good guy. All of these gimmicks are capable of depth, but not the way WWE is handling them. It has nothing to do with the gimmick and everything to do with presentation and writing. Both of which WWE is completely inept at.

[Wishbone]

The difference is that Charlotte can survive the shit they throw at her. She's not lost because they don't have the same handle on what they want to achieve on the main roster as in NXT. On the main roster, they want products; not processes. Charlotte, as a product, is probably as close as you are going to get towards a complete package for a women's wrestler in the modern era. As packages, Bayley and Sasha ran thin very quickly. VERY quickly. They have also both been exposed when they have had to improvise and actually work as opposed to having very thoroughly choreographed matches. Both work hard and aren't talentless, don't get me wrong, but they've had their hand held through becoming relative stars in NXT. Good booking helped with that, but when that booking is removed they are kind of deer in the headlights.

No one is surviving on the main roster. You're acting as if you think WWE right now is actually working. The fact that Charlotte hasn't completely sunk yet isn't a victory, it's just softening a defeat. She's still never going to be a real star because wrestling right now is pure shit. Even guys like AJ Styles and Bray Wyatt who have all the abilities to be a star eventually get bogged down by the machine. No one is truly succeeding right now, and to say "well x is less bogged down by it" isn't really saying much at all. Under the current circumstances I guarantee the vast majority of past rosters would have flopped just as badly as the current ones are.

[Stickman]

It is so obvious that Chorolette is way better than almost every other woman. If anybody thinks Sasha, Bayley, Bliss, Emma is close you don't get it. The one who is close wrestlingwise is Natalya, who also is a little sloppy and awkward when she moves. Charolette isn't clunky and awkward in the ring like women usually are which is impressive due to her height. To say she is floundering is rediculous.

[Ruien]

Okay, I'll bite. How exactly is Charlotte objectively "leaps and bounds" better than the rest of the roster. Please enlighten me. You can see based on their actual work that Charlotte is definitely better than most of the other women, but where is this stat that says she's so far ahead? I've been watching pretty much every week since she premiered on the main roster and I haven't seen anything that indicates this, but maybe I missed it somewhere. Please enlighten me.

Well, you already stated opinions don't matter and all this is is a discussion on opinions. Wresting does not really have facts because it's scripted.

You could count the amount of flops or clunky moves each woman wrestler does though
Charlotte is by far the smoothest one.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Her instagram is the only slight I could give to Charlotte. Does way too much stuff to point out she's playing a character. Kayfabe is dead but this level of exposure is still awkward and off-putting.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

The women wrestlers now seem terrible. That Alexa Bliss bird is bangin but the rest have got nothing on the braids of old like Trish, Stacey, Torrie etc.

Bayley is prob the ugliest though.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

They couldn't have a good match though and Trish wasnt as good as people remember.

[Cool King]

Nah, Trish was really good.

[Cool King]

Maybe not at first, but she did get really good.

[Ruien]

Trish was really good. Also had the best female storyline ever with Mickie.

[Wishbone]

Well, you already stated opinions don't matter and all this is is a discussion on opinions. Wresting does not really have facts because it's scripted.

You could count the amount of flops or clunky moves each woman wrestler does though
Charlotte is by far the smoothest one.

So because something is scripted any analysis of it is purely opinion? So if I say that Tommy Wiseau is in my opinion a better actor than Marlon Brando I'm right because it's "just opinion"? lol That's ludicrous. :lol:

[Wishbone]

Trish by the end was definitely great, but she didn't hit that point until really late in her career. Also lol at Ruien saying her storyline with Mickie was "the best female storyline ever."

[Savio]

Cant think of a great female storyline.

[Ruien]

So because something is scripted any analysis of it is purely opinion? So if I say that Tommy Wiseau is in my opinion a better actor than Marlon Brando I'm right because it's "just opinion"? lol That's ludicrous. :lol:

I don't think you know the difference between a fact and opinion.

[Ruien]

I also don't know who those people are.

[Ruien]

But yes, if you believe someone is better than someone else that is your opinion. It does not make it right or wrong. To you though that person is better.

[DAMN lNATOR]

I heard she's the backstage skank. They call her "blow job Bayley". They make her wear a bag with a hole cut out of it for her mouth because the sight of her revolting face makes guys go limp.

[Wishbone]

I also don't know who those people are.

You don't know who Marlon Brando is? Do you live under a rock? Are you 12? FFS :rofl:

[Ruien]

Sure..... it's rare I watch tv or movies. When I do its 9n Netflix and I don't bother to learn anyone's actual name. But keep on wasting your life keeping up with everyone else on what they do.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Bayley is ok. I don't watch Raw, so I'm not sure what's going on with her

I will say that off the 4 horsewomen, she was the most bland to me. She definitely has a natural charisma to her, but so do the other 3.

Becky has a better look, Charlotte has maybe the best look and overall ability, with Sasha being a little of both. Bayley always came off as the least able of the 4, whether it be on the mic or in the ring.

[Frank Drebin]

Someone find that talking smack or whatever clip where they asked Bayley why she should get a title shot (basically, cut a promo like it's the first day of media training) and she's just like "uhhh, cuz I'm good enough" and Booker T just tears her a new asshole in the nicest way possible telling her that was bullshit and she should be able to do better.

[Frank Drebin]

I still think Bayley can be a female John Cena type but she's never been a favorite of mine. Just kinda floundering around without any personality right now is killing her though. She's not really connecting with the main roster audience. Her car dealership blow up things have more of a personality than her right now.

I want her to succeed but right now I'm just waiting for the Raw after WM when Charlotte cuts a "nobody can beat me on a big stage" promo and Asuka ' s music hits and the crowd goes ape shit.

[Lock Jaw]

Charlotte has been the most "successful" of the four horsewomen on the main roster because she has had character growth/development...... at first people "didn't care", but then they got to see her heel turn, and her arrogance slowly growing, and kicking Ric Flair to the curb, etc......

While with the other three it is pretty much "here they are, they were good on NXT, cheer them!" but without the casual fan who doesn't watch NXT getting to see all the character development/growth that they had in NXT to get people that much invested in them.......

[Frank Drebin]

Sasha ' s done pretty well for herself. Like really well. Becky was doing well for a bit but Kevin Dunn hates her so I guess that's why she's just there now. I still think the quick Becky SD championship win took out alot of the wind from her sails. That first title win has to be a big ass deal. They didn't treat it as such.

Not sure how you can say Sasha is generic when she's been the priciple opponent for Charlotte for the last few months doing HIAC and Iron Man matches to boot.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

How's Becky been doing on Smackdown? I know she was pushed as their top female, and dropped the belt to Alexa. Has she gotten decent time to develop her personality?

I remember reading Smackdown had a couple of running storylines for the girls.

[Lock Jaw]

I still think the quick Becky SD championship win took out alot of the wind from her sails. That first title win has to be a big ass deal. They didn't treat it as such.

Yeah...... they be real bad about "building drama" to somebody's first title win..... which NXT does so well.....

Becky and American Alpha both had "anti-climactic" first title wins (Alpha way more so than Becky)

I remember The Usos also had a very anti-climactic first tag team title win......

[Frank Drebin]

Usos won the titles in front of a rabid smarky Chicago crowd. It was kind of a big deal.

American Alpha yes. This is the problem with having 2 tag titles/ 2 women's titles, etc.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I've been saying since the split, the smart money was to have the tag and women's division be brand exclusive. Creates greater roster depth to run feuds away from the title to help build up characters and momentum.

[Frank Drebin]

Yah....why are the cruiserweights exclusive to Raw? Kayfabe. I get it, it's a 3 hour show.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Do the cruisers get any screen time away from the title? 205 live or moving them to Smackdown seems like it'd be better than giving them to Raw.

I imagine regardless of how they split the rosters, the lackluster writing would sink the ship regardless

[Mr. Nerfect]

Okay, I'll bite. How exactly is Charlotte objectively "leaps and bounds" better than the rest of the roster. Please enlighten me. You can see based on their actual work that Charlotte is definitely better than most of the other women, but where is this stat that says she's so far ahead? I've been watching pretty much every week since she premiered on the main roster and I haven't seen anything that indicates this, but maybe I missed it somewhere. Please enlighten me.

I made some points about it earlier. She thrives while other girls barely manage to survive. There's a charisma and credibility about her that "I deserve to be here" Bayley and breakable Sasha don't have. As a performer, Sasha should have that charisma, but she honestly has only ever displayed it as a heel. Also, if she is working heel then she'll maybe stop killing herself on bumps every few weeks. That might fix a few problems with Vince's perception of her. A heel turn is really the best thing for her.

[Mr. Nerfect]

On Charlotte we'll have to agree to disagree. I thought her entire face run in NXT came off as forced and just... meh. I mean it was better than the PCB nonsense, but that's not saying much. Sasha I'd also agree has been pretty bleh as a face in general. Her gimmick and character are just better suited to being a heel. Bayley's been about as fine as you can be as a face on Monday Night RAW though. I mean, yeah, she's sucked, but that's a show-wide issue. All things considered she's doing relatively well thus far. Could have used with waaay more build before her title feud though, but that was never gonna happen anyway.

Um, you're the one that pointed those two out as replacements. I never said anything about replacing Charlotte, and in fact I think the idea of replacing her is silly. She's the perfect top heel for the division hands down. Why mess with a good thing? Nia isn't ready, and even when she is ready she's got a built in ceiling because quite frankly monsters are always just obstacles for heroes. She'll never be the top heel in the company. She'll be that monster that the triumphant face overcomes, or the bruiser the real top heel like Charlotte hires as muscle.

On the topic of Emma. She's got no momentum. You act like people are just gonna forget about all the previous stuff she's done. You act like she'll just be starting with a new slate and that's just not true. She's still gonna be Emma to the masses and no amount of fake model nonsense is gonna change that. Bray Wyatt managed to do it but that's because he is just a genius at his craft. How many others have been repackaged in this way after such a mediocre career and actually succeeded? Remember Tensai? That was years of absence and it still didn't work. People aren't that forgetful despite what the WWE seems to believe these days. I will agree that that sort of gimmick could work pretty well, but Emma isn't the one to do it though. Also I think you're giving way too much credit to Eva Marie's heat. She wasn't getting heel heat, dude, she was getting "get the hell off my tv" heat.

Finally on the last topic. Um, it doesn't really matter if there are more grown men watching (though I'd like to see some actual evidence of this statement.) The fact of the matter is kids are the ones buying the merchandise and making WWE their money. The smarks and dirty old men like us aren't where the money's at. If we were WWE would abandoned PG and start listening to our misguided cries for a return to the attitude era. I've seen countless guys on this forum say how embarassed they'd be to wear a wrestling shirt in public. Meanwhile I've seen dozens of kids rocking backpacks, shirts, and god knows what else without batting an eyelash. While WWE is slipping it's not because they're marketing to the wrong demographic, it's because they're just inept at making their product. Also I'm a bit insulted that you'd accuse me of thinking kids can't handle nuance and depth when I've been a major proponent and defender of the ability of children in the past on this very forum. Saying that Bayley's gimmick or any other gimmick isn't capable of having depth is the truly insulting statement, especially when your alternative is a model gimmick and turning the prototypical "I was born better than you" character into a good guy. All of these gimmicks are capable of depth, but not the way WWE is handling them. It has nothing to do with the gimmick and everything to do with presentation and writing. Both of which WWE is completely inept at.

I'm not going to touch the Charlotte stuff. That's a purely subjective discussion.

I don't think Nia is ready, and personally I don't know if she ever will be, but you have to make the concession that as The Rock's cousin she's going to get the chance. This is why Sasha is being fed to her and she is being penciled into WrestleMania plans. You just have to deal with that.

As for Emma -- I don't really get your point there. It seems a little all over the place. You're comparing her to Tensai? Well, what about Umaga? Big Show may have never changed his name, but he went from being basically a dude that they wouldn't even use on television in late 2000 and again in late 2001 to being the WWE Champion in 2002. The point of Emmalina is the repackaging. You bring her back, she's got a different presentation, wins her first match, then her second match and she's automatically got more momentum than any other woman in the division not named Charlotte. I don't even think fans were down on her previous runs. Her heel work was actually really good -- she was just a working heel. Now she gets the chance to be the top heel. This argument is just silly.

The evidence is out there, go find it. Also, fewer kids are watching now than used to, even proportionately, in the Attitude era. Yes, WWE markets towards kids and chases those merchandise sales, but no, they are not as good at it as you are making out. It's very easy to see stupid shit and assume that "Kids would love this." It doesn't work that way. Ask a kid what they think of Roman Reigns. Chances are they'll tell you that he's the shits.

I can't believe you just made the point "It doesn't matter who is watching," by the way. Um, yes it does.

[Mr. Nerfect]

As for the point about Charlotte surviving not being a testament to her skills -- it truly is. With the WWE being generally shit (and I am more down on it than a lot of people here, so please don't assign me the position of WWE apologist), you need stars that can survive that. You can no longer count on "Well, if they're booked well, they'll be something special." No, now you need to be able to be something even if you are booked shitty. Charlotte can do that. Bayley and Sasha are on struggle street. They won't be fired or anything, but they're not exactly setting the world on fire like people thought they would.

I haven't watched that much recently, but I did see the Triple Threat at Clash of Champions. It was okay, but it felt like every spot they always do. I'm giving Charlotte her props, but one thing she doesn't have is experience. Becky Lynch brought that to the WrestleMania Triple Threat and that match was great. With Sasha and Bayley it was just spot, spot, spot, spot and there was no emotional draw. These aren't girls that can go out there and you just tell them to have a 20 minute match and they can do it. They need to plan that shit out and be in front of a crowd that already loves them.

And both Bayley and Sasha are still really young. Both are still in their 20's. Given how young they love to throw the girls out there, because they are still sex appeal, they often aren't as polished as they should be to float in a genuine high-profile position. And that should be expected. These women are human beings and professionals that are still working towards getting the things that make stars down to muscle memory. They're still cooking.

Charlotte is a phenomenon, because she largely has a lot of it down -- the harder stuff that allows her to float while others sink -- and she's only been in the business since 2013. She is freakishly good.

Something seems off about it, mainly because of how they have booked her, but Becky Lynch would make the best opponent for Charlotte, I think. The opponent that could bring the best out of Charlotte, anyway. But they've cast her to the veteran that works with the younger girls role. There are benefits to that, but I think Becky could be a star.

[Wishbone]

I'm pretty weary of this whole debate so I'm only gonna tackle one last thing. This particular comment:

"Ask a kid what they think of Roman Reigns. Chances are they'll tell you that he's the shits."

I work with kids on a daily basis, dude. Many of whom are wrestling fans as I stated before, and while it really pains me to say it, no, they don't think Roman is "the shits." Pretty much every kid I've ever talked to loves the guy. I'm sorry, but you're completely out of touch with what children are into these days based on your assessments of them that I've seen here.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I talked to a kid the other day that said "He's boring." Another thinks it's lame that he hasn't "moved on" from The Shield. The only wrestling t-shirts I've seen within the past two years on kids were a Seth Rollins shirt (this is while he was still a heel) and a John Cena shirt. You can find plenty of anecdotes for kids who prefer lots of other acts to Roman Reigns. House shows are largely attended by families these days -- Dean Ambrose outdrew Reigns as a house show attraction. I saw that Gertner posted here that Bray Wyatt and AJ Styles were both better house show draws than Roman Reigns.

Sorry, but your anecdotal evidence only holds up as anecdote. I'm not calling you a liar, because I'm sure you do work with kids, but all the kids I've spoken to think he's pretty shit. My best friend's a teacher, some of the boys in his class stopped watching when Reigns won the belt at WrestleMania (no joke). He's not a wrestling fan, but Reigns is one of the few wrestlers he knows because the kids hate him. My teacher friend who is a wrestling fan works in high schools with adolescents, and they generally aren't interested in wrestling, but he seems to think that AJ Styles is a hit with the ones who are, and that Roman Reigns is despised. Cena is also beloved in an ironic meme sort of way. That's just my anecdotal counter to you. They're worth about the same when it comes to logic -- nothing.

But I can point out that The New Day outsold Reigns' merchandise at the WrestleMania where Reigns was getting his biggest push. I can point out that Ambrose won the WWE Title because he was performing better than Reigns at house shows. None of these indicate that Reigns is hated by all children, of course not; but your argument that he is loved by kids still has a lot of work in front of it, and telling me that you work with kids like you're the only person in the world with access to this information isn't going to convince me. Sorry.

[Wishbone]

Sounds like the "kids" you're talking to are much older than what I (and most people) would call kids. High school age is not a "kid," at least not in the sense we're talking about here.

Also, you're making tons of assumptions about what I'm saying here. I never said that my working with kids makes me the only authority on the subject. However, I would say that it gives me more exposure to that age group and as a result I've got more experience with it than someone who doesn't work with kids. The same could be said of your teacher friend with teenagers as they'd most definitely know more about them than I would, and I'm sure you know more about whatever profession you are in than I ever could.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

3 strong feuds in the division on Smackdown for the women. Raw needs to step up.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Yeah, I'm not getting any sense of Charlotte being at all superior to Hayley or Sasha. You can act like cock of the walk all you want, but when all you've done on the main roster is play a long game of hot potato with the RAW Women's Championship, you shouldn't be proud of holding that belt. It's basically as good as a $15 replica at the toy store right now. She should be embarrassed to be forced to lug something around that even the slightest bit of tin foil has more value than it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Sounds like the "kids" you're talking to are much older than what I (and most people) would call kids. High school age is not a "kid," at least not in the sense we're talking about here.

Also, you're making tons of assumptions about what I'm saying here. I never said that my working with kids makes me the only authority on the subject. However, I would say that it gives me more exposure to that age group and as a result I've got more experience with it than someone who doesn't work with kids. The same could be said of your teacher friend with teenagers as they'd most definitely know more about them than I would, and I'm sure you know more about whatever profession you are in than I ever could.

The first dude I mentioned works with kids <10. You are just trying to pass your experiences off as more significant. This is silly.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, I'm not getting any sense of Charlotte being at all superior to Hayley or Sasha. You can act like cock of the walk all you want, but when all you've done on the main roster is play a long game of hot potato with the RAW Women's Championship, you shouldn't be proud of holding that belt. It's basically as good as a $15 replica at the toy store right now. She should be embarrassed to be forced to lug something around that even the slightest bit of tin foil has more value than it.

Yeah, don't feel the RAW Women's Title at all right now. That being said, I still think it is more prestigious than the SmackDown Women's Title, given that it is the first one, the SD belt is on a Diva and overall the RAW division feels more "important." It feels like any of the SmackDown girls would be promoted if they got moved to RAW.

[Lock Jaw]

Conversely, I think the Raw women's title seems very prestigious and the "hotshotting" of the belt really helped that. Seems miles ahead of the Smackdown title in terms of credibility and prestige.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't think the hot-shotting helped, but agree it is more prestigious. Weirdly enough, I kind of feel that the SmackDown Tag Titles are better than the RAW Tag Titles right now, despite them having no history.

[EazyMack]

I work with kids on a daily basis, dude. Many of whom are wrestling fans as I stated before, and while it really pains me to say it, no, they don't think Roman is "the shits." Pretty much every kid I've ever talked to loves the guy.

It's gotta be the vest.

They dig the vest, so moms buy them the merch, and he gets pushed into our faces weekly.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The vest is sprayed with stuff other kids enjoy, like the smell of Pokemon cards and Razor scooters.

[slik]

Dave Meltzer reporting that Bayley is hurting ratings:


http://www.tpww.net/2017/02/bayley-is-not-drawing-well-with-teenage-girls/

[Bad News Gertner]

She's so ugly that people turn the channel when she's on.

[Shisen Kopf]

Bayley is ruining the WWE. Please future endeavor her ASAP

[Wishbone]

Dave Meltzer reporting that Bayley is hurting ratings:


http://www.tpww.net/2017/02/bayley-is-not-drawing-well-with-teenage-girls/

Since when are teenage girls even remotely a large part of the pro-wrestling fanbase? I hate to sound like CyNick, but y'all are morons if you think that's actually going to hurt WWE. :lol:

[Sepholio]

Lol while I'm not impressed by bayley per se, I'm also not that against her. She's not great but she's far from awful. There have been worse, there will be worse.

Legit shocked by how many people dislike her with a passion though. Reading the comments at the end of Meltzer report linked up there was quite enlightening.

[road doggy dogg]

lol who is Creature_of_the_Night

dying rn

[Emperor Smeat]

Since when are teenage girls even remotely a large part of the pro-wrestling fanbase? I hate to sound like CyNick, but y'all are morons if you think that's actually going to hurt WWE. :lol:

Think the idea with Bayley when she was getting compared as the Female Cena was her being able to bring in a new base for the WWE mainly made up of little girls and young women. Sort of like how Total Divas for a while managed to bring in a good chunk of women as new viewers for the WWE but usually only lasted while a season was showing.

At least that was the idea before RAW's Creative did a terrible job with her since her call up. Meltzer legit thought out of everyone from NXT, she'd be the hardest to mess up with a call up and then ended up not being surprised the WWE found a way to do it.

[Sepholio]

Lol ikr

[Mercenary]

So Trish vs Lita > Bayley vs Flair Jr

[Ruien]

Charlotte will end up in the same special spot as Trish when it is all said and done. Maybe even above her. Sasha, Becky, or anyone else won't reach Litas level due to her gaining popularity with the Hardys. And booking is horrible for most wrestlers now which hurts them.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

So Trish vs Lita > Bayley vs Flair Jr

With no other legit competition that doesn't mean shit. Division is the best it has ever been bar none.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Dave Meltzer reporting that Bayley is hurting ratings:


http://www.tpww.net/2017/02/bayley-is-not-drawing-well-with-teenage-girls/

He's a liar, and so are you by association for helping distribute that seditious BS. #FakeNews #MeltzerSheep #StopLettingSlikWriteArticlesForTheFrontPageHesNotBestForBusiness

[Bad News Gertner]

He's definitely not lying.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

The ratings have been terrible for years. It's not Bayleys fault.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Teenage girls also are probably going to bed at like 9 or 10 for school.

[DAMN iNATOR]

The ratings have been terrible for years. It's not Bayleys fault.

Must be Snitsky's fault then. :shifty:

[Bobholly138]

I like her entrance/theme music but I don't get the hype at all. She has the worst finisher of anyone currently in WWE. Charlotte seems way better in the ring/on the mic than the rest of the entire women's roster tbh.

Slik I like ya man,but Bayley is much better than Flair's horrible daughter. Never thought I would see a Flair that is a worse wrestler than David.Then I saw Charlotte.

But yeah Bayley is highly over-rated by lots of the IWC. She is ok. But they act like she is the second coming of some of the 80s Joshi greats.

[Bad News Gertner]

The ratings have been terrible for years. It's not Bayleys fault.

It's completely Bayley's fault. She's boring and ugly. Maryse should be champion.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't think being ugly has anything to do with her being a ratings draw. I think her being boring does though.

[Sepholio]

She isn't boring. She's generic. Not sure there's much of a difference there in reality. But it is a difference nonetheless.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Hahaha. I love that post.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't watch regularly enough to know, but is she still doing her "I deserve to be here" shtick every week?

[Sepholio]

Not as much and not as insistent when she does, but yes, to some degree she still does it. I can only imagine what she'll be like Monday when she's serenaded with "you deserve it" chants.

[rez]

This whole thread is generic. The only woman worth watching on either brand is Renee Young.

[Bad News Gertner]

Renee Young is about as average as they come

[Bad News Gertner]

I don't think being ugly has anything to do with her being a ratings draw. I think her being boring does though.

It was when millions are shutting off their TV to go puke in the their toilets when she's on

[rez]

Renee Young is about as average as they come

Move along, fake news

[Maluco]

I was with you on AJ and to a degree on Bayley, but Renee is so cute, great personality that makes her even cuter. Far above average!

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol "personality"

[rez]

http://content.internetvideoarchive.com/content/photos/9479/884397_044.jpg

Renee has cooties

[DAMN iNATOR]

Slik I like ya man,but Bayley is much better than Flair's horrible daughter. Never thought I would see a Flair that is a worse wrestler than David.Then I saw Charlotte.

But yeah Bayley is highly over-rated by lots of the IWC. She is ok. But they act like she is the second coming of some of the 80s Joshi greats.

Bayley is not overrated at all. I'm surprised the poor woman didn't suffer a broken back from carrying Sasha through their NXT TakeOver: Brooklyn match and the Iron Woman match. She's going to be a huge part of the Women's division in WWE for years if not a decade or more.

[Bad News Gertner]

She's a modern day Ivory. Bleh.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

So you mean not-blonde and no fake knockers got it.

[Bad News Gertner]

Bland and boring.

[Wishbone]

Gerty's just upset because even Bayley wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.

[Bad News Gertner]

I don't deal with 2/10's

[Wishbone]

Well duh. We all know you only deal in 0.001/10's, Gerty. :p

[Bad News Gertner]

FBDV think Bayley is hott because they think she's attainable.

She's not attractive at all to anyone with standards

[Wishbone]

No, I actually think her character is attractive because she's determined, strong willed, and cute. Don't know what she's like as an actual human being though so meh. If we're judging purely on looks, yeah, she's average, but neither of us are catches either, Gerty-boy. Grown men who spend their time talking about pro-wrestling, especially on a Friday night, don't get to have "standards." :lol:

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

lol Gertner fuck off you handsome piece of shit

[rez]

bad fake news in the flesh. Picture him without the wheelchair...nehh

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/badnewsbears/images/8/89/Badnews1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120712004222

[Ruien]

No, I actually think her character is attractive because she's determined, strong willed, and cute. Don't know what she's like as an actual human being though so meh. If we're judging purely on looks, yeah, she's average, but neither of us are catches either, Gerty-boy. Grown men who spend their time talking about pro-wrestling, especially on a Friday night, don't get to have "standards." :lol:

I don't think your hobby determine how attractive you are.

Plus, Gertner just does drugs with supermodels before he bangs them.

[Ruien]

Bailey is so bland and boring too. She seems like she could do more but her current character is so stupid. Putting her with Sheamus and Cesaro isn't the worst thing possible though.

[DAMN iNATOR]

FBDV think Bayley is hott because they think she's attainable.

She's not attractive at all to anyone with standards

Beauty is more than just skin deep, dude. And no, that is not something only ugly people say.

[Ruien]

Beauty is more than just skin deep, dude. And no, that is not something only ugly people say.

Yup. Stupid people say it too.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Beauty is more than just skin deep, dude. And no, that is not something only ugly people say.

Dude, you could never ever get with that

[Destor]

Beauty is more than just skin deep, dude. And no, that is not something only ugly people say.

Dude, you could never ever get with that

[Wishbone]

I don't think your hobby determine how attractive you are.

Plus, Gertner just does drugs with supermodels before he bangs them.

LOL :rofl:

[Mr. Nerfect]

The "Women's Revolution" is evidence that people can still be worked. There are people that believe that Alexa Bliss is a good wrestler and Naomi is a journeyman.

[#1-norm-fan]

And that women main eventing PPVs in 2017 actually means something.

[#1-norm-fan]

"This women's revolution is a total success because we put them in the main event. What other time could women main event a PPV? Never! CHECKMATE, DOUBTERS!"

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh yes, that. In an era where there is a PPV every other week, you should hang your head in shame if you don't main event one.

[#1-norm-fan]

Not even so much that there is a PPV every other week... but there's not as much pressure for them to be climactic. It's not as important to sell them as a big deal because you're not asking people to pay $50 for them. You're asking them to pay $10. And if it sucks or just doesn't feel worth it in the end, guess what? You get a shitload of other shows to watch all month without paying a penny more. No biggie.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, there's no longer any risk involved in PPVs. They've dulled things down so that the product is what "draws."

[#1-norm-fan]

Didn't they also recently have a world title match open the show and end the with a random Raw-level main event? lol

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

The "Women's Revolution" is evidence that people can still be worked. There are people that believe that Alexa Bliss is a good wrestler and Naomi is a journeyman.

Alexa can cut a promo I'll say that much for her. And has a great look. Like she's "hot" or whatever but I just like that she looks like a cocky biatch. But I can believe it, unlike Sascha who I've decided is kind of the worst.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Didn't they also recently have a world title match open the show and end the with a random Raw-level main event? lol

It happens quite a lot these days if they do televised World Title matches.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Alexa can cut a promo I'll say that much for her. And has a great look. Like she's "hot" or whatever but I just like that she looks like a cocky biatch. But I can believe it, unlike Sascha who I've decided is kind of the worst.

I think her promo skills are overrated. She's a confident talker, sure, but she gets that "I'm trying to remember my lines" face way too much. She might be better if she wasn't scripted down to the word, but I honestly find myself rolling my eyes at some of her "dialogue."

She's got a great look though. Her height would play better as a babyface, but she does have that "cocky bitch" look. I think she'd better as a babyface climbing the roster and then turning heel when she's got enough experience to properly lead a match and people can buy her as a bully.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I think her promo skills are overrated. She's a confident talker, sure, but she gets that "I'm trying to remember my lines" face way too much. She might be better if she wasn't scripted down to the word, but I honestly find myself rolling my eyes at some of her "dialogue."

She's got a great look though. Her height would play better as a babyface, but she does have that "cocky bitch" look. I think she'd better as a babyface climbing the roster and then turning heel when she's got enough experience to properly lead a match and people can buy her as a bully.

haven't seen much of her, but her latest promo on Smackdown! was tremendous which would suggest improvement.

I was immediately comparing her to Sascha/Nia who both sound like robots remembering a script.

Charlotte and Alexa (at least from what I saw) comparitively really are leagues ahead of the rest of the gals.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Eh, I fall asleep whenever Alexa is on. I'd definitely focus on her to some degree -- I think she's going to get A LOT better (she's like 25 and has only been wrestling for 4 years), but I just don't buy her as a serious female threat yet.

Coming out of WrestleMania I'd program her with Mickie James. I think Mickie would do a lot to help her out and people want to cheer for Mickie anyway.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Swap Nia Jax and Becky over and have Nia go after the SmackDown Women's Title after squashing Kelly Kelly, Victoria and whoever else they bring back for Mania. Why not keep these girls around for a few weeks and have them go to good use? The big payoff can be Nia Jax vs. Lita on a SmackDown PPV. Tamina can eventually return for the "monster" match with Nia, put her over, and by then maybe something is starting to click with her and you can have her take the belt off Naomi. Alexa and Mickie can be your supplementary story.

[Ruien]

Alexa is amazing with her promos. She will get you to want her to lose easily everytime.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I just don't see it, I guess.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I just don't see it, I guess.

plebeian

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

:O

[Frank Drebin]

Big fan of Alexa. She's got a lot of room to improve in-ring but she's ok enough.

One thing I don't get about Bayley on the main roster: why doesn't she do the "hug" thing to the crowd opposite of the hard camera anymore? Feel like that's a missed opportunity to show the crowd being involved. Did they tell her not to do it to that side for some reason?

[DAMN iNATOR]

Dude, you could never ever get with that

I'd have a hell of a lot better shot than you.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

lmfao

[Destor]

I dont think Gooby got the joke :lol:

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I should have prefaced it with "no offence"

[Corndad]

I'm gonna go re-watch NXT Brooklyn and try and comprehend the hate for Bayley.

NXT Bayley was more entertaining than Present Day Bayley I will give you "haters" that but that is probably due to how the character had to change due to being on a bigger scale.

I also think these girls are being hurt by the Brand Extension. Sasha vs Charlotte was turning into Cena-Orton II and they follow it up with Bayley vs Charlotte for 6 months. Where else can they go? Nia, maybe but she is greener than the rest and not close to being ready to carry a division. Combining all the women on one show would freshen a lot up and be beneficial not only to Bayley but all the girls.

Also looks wise, Bayley's ass is all I need to live.

[Stickman]

I completely agree that the women should be on one show, or, be on both brands, but not have two different divisions. They are so low on talent that it became obvious a month or so after the brand split

[#1-norm-fan]

I'd have a hell of a lot better shot than you.

Only one way to settle this.

I will pretend to be Bayley and the two of you try to pick me up.

Aaaaaaand GO!

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

couldn't find the video but immediately thought of Grandpa Simpson dressed as a southern damsel and the 2 men vying for his affections.

[Vastardikai]

I will say this: a lot of the detractors on her looks are due to her wearing her hair as she does.

I promise you, if she went heel, ditching the headband and the sideways ponytail, everyone would be oohing and aahing over how hot she is.

She is a pretty girl, but her gimmick isn't meant for her to be a sex symbol.

[Lock Jaw]

https://frinkiac.com/gif/S04E19/889204/895310.gif?b64lines=

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

ty Lock Jaw

[Cool King]

Vastardikai is right though about Bayley's hair. I remember seeing a photo of her with her hair down and she did look very pretty.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Only one way to settle this.

I will pretend to be Bayley and the two of you try to pick me up.

Aaaaaaand GO!

You know the Internet has a little thing (that's what she said) called "free porn", right? :shifty:

[Cool King]

So much talk about hair on these boards recently.

[Cool King]

Also, I went to copy and paste Vastardikai's name for that first post and my computer asked me if I mean to type "Bastardise".

[DAMN iNATOR]

Vastardikai is right though about Bayley's hair. I remember seeing a photo of her with her hair down and she did look very pretty.

I dunno, I think the ponytail to the side looks cool and unique, makes her stand out from the crowd a bit, though I'm still questioning why she has to "adjust" it to do a top rope move.

[Cool King]

Having her hair the way it is now just makes her look like a little girl.

Which I guess is the point as she has to try to appeal to the little girls that watch.

[Bad News Gertner]

She should wear Christian's blue dot

[#1-norm-fan]

You know the Internet has a little thing (that's what she said) called "free porn", right? :shifty:

Is that your pick up line?

... Not bad.

[XL]

I just don't see it, I guess.

Well you don't watch so how could you see? :kiss:

[rez]

Jericho dressed in drag wins. Thread over

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol I love the they managed to catch Bayley's uglyness in her Action Figure.

https://i0.wp.com/lylesmoviefiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/WWE-Bayley-figure-review-main-pic.jpg?resize=800%2C445

[Destor]

Not gonna lie they nailed her nose

[Lock Jaw]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/18/2a/32/182a32d7d94e4639aed90ad6f4633889.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/eb/b0/f8/ebb0f8717bfddaa27410616b50397a60.jpg

1) Becky
2) Charlotte
3) Sasha
4) Bayley

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

1. Charlotte
2. Sasha
3. Becky
4. Bayley.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Well you don't watch so how could you see? :kiss:

I watched Elimination Chamber and have caught little bits here and there. In theory, her improvements should jump out because there is lots of time between viewings. I saw her at Elimination Chamber and before that the SmackDown before her Tables Match with Becky Lynch. Neither impressed me.

I think he's got a lot of potential though. I don't "hate" her -- I just don't overrate her work because she's hot as fuck. Her work shouldn't be that good anyway -- she's like 25 and not even 4 years into her career. She's not Kurt freakin' Angle. That she is as bad as she is now is phenomenal. I mean, she's already better than Nikki Bella.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The problem with the little girl thing she has going is that it feels like pandering. I can totally see why it turns a lot of girls off. I think the ponytail is fine -- I wish more girls wore their hair up because it makes sense when you are going into a fight -- but I think the sunshine and daises are killing her. They need to bring up the "rassler" in her. A program with Natalya would do a lot of good, and I always thought that would have been a good way to debut her.

The split divisions is playing at half-strength. I think if you swapped Becky with Nia you can have each division develop a more fixed identity a bit more. A big problem with SmackDown's division is that you have Becky playing arguably #3 babyface. It doesn't feel like it comes together nicely. If Naomi is your champion, you can have Alexa and Mickie feuding underneath her fending off great wrestlers (Natalya), whiny bitches (Carmella) and monsters (Nia Jax and Tamina). There's more of a throughline for you to build around. Make RAW the Horsewomen show and have Asuka show up kicking ass when she is done with Ember Moon. I'm sure that Emma and Nikki Cross can have functional roles there too.

[Wishbone]

1) Becky
2) Bayley
3) Sasha
4) Charlotte

How any of y'all can find Ric Flair in drag hot is beyond me. I mean to each their own, but you might as well just admit some things to yourselves. It'd be healthier for you.

As for Sasha, well, she's got a great body but her face is really... odd. When she's wearing less makeup it's far better, but even then I can't shake the feeling that there's something off about her and I can't put my finger on it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Every girl has a father that they probably partially resemble.

[Wishbone]

Every girl has a father that they probably partially resemble.

Yeah, but not every girl is literally their father in drag. Charlotte is uglier than a bull moose, man. I mean I'm usually the kind of guy that doesn't put a lot of stock into looks, but I can legit say that Charlotte could never elicit a boner out of me no matter the circumstances. She doesn't even have personality going for her (based on what I've seen and heard, which is admittedly not a lot.) It is legit baffling to me that anyone could say Bayley is ugly and then with a straight face call Charlotte attractive. I gotta question that person's sanity.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I dunno, man -- I could definitely get a boner over Charlotte. She's fit as fuck. I'd want her to moonsault onto it.

[Wishbone]

You'd need a paper bag or to put a flag over her face and do it for ol' glory then, and even then she's got a man's ass... Bleh, I'm gonna give myself nightmares with this crap. Damn it, Noid. lol

[Mr. Nerfect]

Eh, they're all "beautiful girls." Bayley and Sasha are more "normal" looking, but some people like that. I don't think any of these women should give anyone nightmares. None of them belong on JBL's browser tabs.

[Wishbone]

I'm still pissed at all of you for making me google that...

But, meh, like I said to each their own I guess. I just can't see anything attractive in her. She's great at her job, but definitely not my cup of tea.

[Cool King]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/18/2a/32/182a32d7d94e4639aed90ad6f4633889.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/eb/b0/f8/ebb0f8717bfddaa27410616b50397a60.jpg

Instantly I thought "female Nexus".

[Stickman]

I find it funny how people are saying so and so is ugly. The WWE legit doesn't hire ugly chicks, unless they are villains and/or overweight. Bayley's not ugly, Charlotte resembles her father but is far from ugly. Bunch of keyboard warriors around here.

The WWE is in the entertainment business, a big part of that is having good looking people on your screen. Look at almost every tv or movie, every actor male or female is better looking than the average Joe. The WWE is no different, even most successful male wrestlers are above average in looks. Ugly doesn't sell. Those saying these women are ugly are either gay or virgins who only dream of getting hot chicks.

[Destor]

I find it funny how people are saying so and so is ugly. The WWE legit doesn't hire ugly chicks, unless they are villains and/or overweight. Bayley's not ugly, Charlotte resembles her father but is far from ugly. Bunch of keyboard warriors around here.

The WWE is in the entertainment business, a big part of that is having good looking people on your screen. Look at almost every tv or movie, every actor male or female is better looking than the average Joe. The WWE is no different, even most successful male wrestlers are above average in looks. Ugly doesn't sell. Those saying these women are ugly are either gay or virgins who only dream of getting hot chicks.
Im not saying Bayley is ugly but your argument is trash.


"They must be pretty or they wouldnt have that job." lol wut? Didnt realize WWE INC had the final say on beauty.

[Destor]

FTR: Beyley's ass is a delight

[Cool King]

The WWE is no different, even most successful male wrestlers are above average in looks. Ugly doesn't sell.

https://s9.postimg.org/6ds5x9trz/image.png

[Maluco]

I do not think any of the four are absolute stunners, but is that not partly the point? It's rare to see them in a picture like above because they are athletes and we see them wrestling much more than dolled up like models. They are on par with the Hope Solos, Rondy Rouseys and Serena Williams of the world. Athletes first and decent looking after.

I think girls in the past were a lot more attractive than the current girls, but then the likes of Torrie, Sable, Stacy, and even the Bella's initially and Maryse were hired 100% because of their looks.

These girls were hired as wrestlers firstly and I think the WWE benefits from it. I never ever watched woman's wrestling before, because it was terrible tbh. Now, I don't skip past any of their matches really and we are discussing how good they are in the ring more than their appearance. Bayleys primary failing is that her character is boring and she isn't great in the ring....Not that she is ugly.

I think that is real progress tbh

[Cool King]

When it comes to women's matches, I find myself skipping Raw's the vast majority of the time but I always watch SmackDown's.

I'd actually say that the women's division on SmackDown is one of the best things about the brand.

[Maluco]

Roman Reigns is pushed because he is a good looking guy tbh, there are tons of better wrestlers on the roster, and the majority are better speakers. But he has what they want as their image. So we shouldn't act like the women are light years behind the men in that respect either.

[Bad News Gertner]

Bayley looks like Jesse the Body Ventura

[Shisen Kopf]

When they turn Emmalina back to Emma the retard, she should team with Bayley. Could be called "The Tardettes". Emma would be the good looking one of course.

[Rebecca Reigns]

Roman Reigns would never touch or even look at Bayley. Roman has good taste in women. Roman Reigns is the future Universal Champion.

[Stickman]

https://s9.postimg.org/6ds5x9trz/image.png

He got hired as a joke and I doubt he puts butts in seats.

There are exceptions to all rules, but the majority of wwe "superstars" have a decent look including the men. Someone did point out that they are getting back to being a wrestler/athlete first but with all else equal, the pretty one gets the job. When it comes to the men if their face isn't great their body is. If Samoa Joe wasn't a fat ugly motherfucker he would have been hired years ago. Kevin Owens would have been a jobber if he was signed even 5 years ago. Looks matter whether you want to believe it or not.

[Destor]

He got hired as a joke and I doubt he puts butts in seats.

There are exceptions to all rules, but the majority of wwe "superstars" have a decent look including the men. Someone did point out that they are getting back to being a wrestler/athlete first but with all else equal, the pretty one gets the job. When it comes to the men if their face isn't great their body is. If Samoa Joe wasn't a fat ugly motherfucker he would have been hired years ago. Kevin Owens would have been a jobber if he was signed even 5 years ago. Looks matter whether you want to believe it or not.
Looks as defined in an abitrary fasion by the head of talent who according to you has the final say in what is or isnt attractive.


(seriously though, her booty is just the best)

[Destor]

https://giant.gfycat.com/TinyPepperyAiredale.gif

[Big Vic]

Every time I see this thread I think "yes"

[Stickman]

https://giant.gfycat.com/TinyPepperyAiredale.gif

I would tongue punch her fart box