Better Wrestler #64 [Archive]

Destor

06-30-2017, 03:19 PM

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VS

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3 DAYS

<select><option selected="selected">Better Wrestler History</option> <option>#1. Trish Stratus vs Charlotte (27-13)</option> <option>#2. Trish Stratus vs The Miz (20-13)</option> <option>#3. Trish Stratus vs Booker T (19-19)</option> <option>#4. Trish Stratus vs The Big Show (19-9)</option> <option>#5. Trish Stratus vs Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat (10-25)</option> <option>#6. Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat vs Bokker T (22-13)</option> <option>#7. Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat vs Kevin Nash (17-16)</option> <option>#8. Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat vs John Cena (6-21)</option> <option>#9. John Cena vs Kevin Owens (25-8)</option> <option>#10. John Cena vs Goldberg (28-4)</option> <option>#11. John Cena vs Chris Jericho (4-33)</option> <option>#12. Chris Jericho vs AJ Styles (26-6)</option> <option>#13. Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit (26-5)</option> <option>#14. Chris Jericho vs Kurt Angle (9-27)</option> <option>#15. Kurt Angle vs "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig (31-5)</option> <option>#16. Kurt Angle vs "The American Dream" Dusty Rhodes (17-14)</option> <option>#17. Kurt Angle vs Eddie Guerrero (23-12)</option> <option>#18. Kurt Angle vs "The Heartbreak Kid" Shawn Michaels (21-22)</option> <option>#19. "The Heartbreak Kid" Shawn Michaels vs Christian (31-7)</option> <option>#20. "The Heartbreak Kid" Shawn Michaels vs Mick Foley (27-7)</option><option>#21. "The Heartbreak Kid" Shawn Michaels vs Bret "The Hitman" Hart (20-23)</option><option>#22. Bret "The Hitman" Hart vs Vader (24-15)</option><option>#23. Bret "The Hitman" Hart vs "Rowdy" Roddy Piper (20-18)</option><option>#24. Bret "The Hitman" Hart vs "Macho Man" Randy Savage (12-24)</option><option>#25. "Macho Man" Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior (34-4)</option><option>#26. "Macho Man" Randy Savage vs Jake "The Snake" Roberts (29-3)</option><option>#27. "Macho Man" Randy Savage vs Triple H (32-6)</option><option>#28. "Macho Man" Randy Savage vs The Undertaker (24-19)</option><option>#29. Roman Reigns vs Lex Luger (21-20)</option><option>#30. Roman Reigns vs The Great Khali (20-18)</option><option>#31. Roman Reigns vs AJ Lee (14-24)</option><option>#32. AJ Lee vs Emma (32-6)</option><option>#33. AJ Lee vs Lita (11-26)</option><option>#34. Lita vs John Morrison (15-22)</option><option> #35. John Morrison vs Ricochet (26-6)</option><option>#36. John Morrison vs Dean Malenko (8-25)</option><option>#37. Dean Malenko vs Perry Saturn (23-10)</option><option>#38. Dean Malenko vs Taz (19-22)</option><option>#39. Taz vs Shane Douglas (28-3)</option><option>#40. Taz vs Raven (15-19)</option><option>#41. Raven vs Bray Wyatt (20-11)</option><option>#42. Raven vs "Diamond" Dallas Page (7-25)</option><option>#43. "Diamond" Dallas Page vs Scott Hall (14-16)</option><option>#44. Scott Hall vs Sid Vicious (29-4)</option><option>#45. Scott Hall vs "The British Bulldog" Davey Boy Smith (26-8)</option><option>#46. Scott Hall vs "The Million Dollar Man" Ted Dibiase (13-17)</option><option>#47. "The Million Dollar Man" Ted Dibiase vs "Dr. Death" Steve Williams (24-6)</option><option>#48. "The Million Dollar Man" Ted Dibiase vs Sting (12-26)</option><option>#49. Sting vs Matt Hardy (26-8)</option><option>#50. Sting vs Edge (13-24)</option><option>#51. Edge vs Kane (20-13)</option><option>#52. Edge vs Dean Ambrose (22-13)</option><option>#53. Edge vs CM Punk (12-24)</option><option>#54. CM Punk vs Rob Van Damn (18-19) </option><option>#55. Rob Van Dam vs Adrian Neville (26-7)</option><option>#56. Rob Van Dam vs Rey Mysterio (10-22)</option><option>#57. Rey Mysterio vs Scott Steiner (18-12)</option><option>#58. Rey Mysterio vs Jeff Hardy (20-15)</option><option>#59. Rey Mysterio vs Brock Lesnar (6-26)</option><option>#60. Brock Lesnar vs John "Bradshaw" Layfield (28-3)</option><option>#61. Brock Lesnar vs Randy Orton (21-12)</option><option>#62. Brock Lesnar vs John Cena (13-17)</option><option> #63. John Cena vs Vince McMahon (18-12)</option></select>

<select><option selected="selected">Better Wrestler Hall of Fame</option><option>"Macho Man" Randy Savage</option></select>

<select><option selected="selected">Previous Better Wrestler History</option><option>#1.RVD vs CM Punk (34-19)</option><option>#2.RVD vs Santino Marella (36-4)</option><option>#3.RVD vs "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig (15-23)</option><option>#4."Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig vs Tully Blanchard (30-5)</option><option>#5."Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig vs Chris Jericho (15-23)</option><option>#6.Chris Jericho vs Brock Lesnar (34-10)</option><option>#7.Chris Jericho vs William Regal (38-14)</option><option>#8.Chris Jericho vs Eddie Guerrero (21-23)</option><option>#9.Eddie Guerrero vs Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat (26-7)</option><option>#10.Eddie Guerrero vs "Macho Man" Randy Savage (26-19)</option><option>#11.Eddie Guerrero vs Diamond Dallas Page (39-8)</option><option>#12.Eddie Guerrero vs "Stone Cold" Steve Austin(19-28)</option><option>#13."Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Chris Benoit (32-13)</option><option>#14."Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Jake "The Snake" Roberts (29-10)</option><option>#15."Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Sting (36-16)</option><option>#16."Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Bret "The Hitman" Hart (32-31)</option><option>#17.Hulk Hogan vs John Cena (15-24)</option><option>#18.John Cena vs Lex Luger (32-6)</option><option>#19.John Cena vs Ultimate Warrior (29-18)</option><option>#20.John Cena vs Dean Malenko (9-40)</option><option>#21.Dean Malenko vs Billy Kidman (31-7)</option><option>#22.Dean Malenko vs Ultimo Dragon (22-15)</option><option>#23.Dean Malenko vs Taz (15-17)</option><option>#24.Taz vs Sabu (38-2)</option><option>#25.Taz vs Jeff Hardy (25-16)</option><option>#26.Taz vs Bam Bam Bigelow (26-12)</option><option>#27.Taz vs Triple H (24-22)</option><option>#28.Edge vs Christian Cage (22-23)</option><option>#29.Christian Cage vs Raven (23-22)</option><option>#30.Christian vs Matt Hardy (22-19)</option><option>#31.Christian vs Ted Dibiase (24-25)</option><option>#32.Ted Dibiase vs "Rowdy" Roddy Piper (16-19)</option><option>#33."Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs "The British Bulldog" Davey Boy Smith (25-19)</option><option>#34."Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs Bob Backlund (26-6)</option><option>#35."Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs The Dynamite Kid (26-13)</option><option>#36."Rowdy Roddy Piper vs Ric Flair (16-19)</option><option>#37.Ric Flair vs Bret "The Hitman" Hart (19-17)</option><option>#38.Ric Flair vs Andre "The Giant" (28-5)</option><option>#39.Ric Flair vs Triple H (26-11)</option><option>#40.Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels (20-26)</option><option>#41.Shawn Michaels vs Jushin "Thunder" Lyger (26-15)</option><option>#42.Shawn Michaels vs Perry Saturn (36-12)</option><option>#43.Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker (29-11)</option><option>#44.Shawn Michaels vs The Rock (28-30)</option><option>#45.The Rock vs Trish Stratus (21-16)</option><option>#46.The Rock vs Lance Storm (22-19)</option><option>#47.The Rock vs Owen Hart (18-12)</option><option>#48.The Rock vs Kurt Angle (5-24)</option><option>#49.Kurt Angle vs Ken Shamrock (36-5)</option><option>#50.Kurt Angle vs Rob Van Dam (23-13)</option><option>#51.Kurt Angle vs "King Kong" Bruiser Brody (20-10)</option><option>#52.Kurt Angle vs Mick Foley (31-6)</option><option>#53.John Morrison vs Braden Walker (36-11)</option><option>#54.John Morrison vs Kofi Kingston (34-5)</option><option>#55.John Morrison vs CM Punk (14-28)</option><option>#56.CM Punk vs Tajiri (28-20)</option><option>#57.CM Punk vs Booker T (24-23)</option><option>#58.CM Punk vs Samoa Joe (53-4)</option><option>#59.CM Punk vs "Macho Man" Randy Savage (19-36)</option><option>#60."Macho Man" Randy Savage vs "Adorable" Adrian Adonis (47-2)</option><option>#61."Macho Man" Randy Savage vs Goldberg (49-4)</option><option>#62."Macho Man" Randy Savage vs "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig (31-38)</option><option>#63."Mr.Perfect" Curt Hennig vs "Diamond" Dallas Page (51-17)</option><option>#64."Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig vs William Regal (37-18)</option><option>#65."Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig vs Brock Lesnar (48-4)</option><option>#66."Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig vs Eddie Guerrero (39-40)</option><option>#67. Eddie Guerrero vs Arn Anderson (33-22)</option><option>#68. Eddie Guerrero vs Jake "The Snake" Roberts (37-36)</option><option>#69. Eddie Guerrero vs Sting (41-16)</option><option>#70. Chris Jericho vs Eddie Guerrero (45-18)</option><option>#71. Chris Jericho vs Rey Mysterio (63-3)</option><option>#72. Chris Jericho vs Kevin Nash (54-12)</option><option>#73. Chris Jericho vs Dean Malenko (39-9)</option><option>#74. Chris Jericho vs Ricky Steamboat (41-30)</option><option>#75. Masato Tanaka vs Mike Awesome (24-18)</option><option>#76. Masato Tanaka vs X-Pac (34-16)</option><option>#77. Masato Tanaka vs Rikishi (36-13)</option><option>#78. Brian Pillman vs Masato Tanaka (31-13)</option><option>#79. Brian Pillman vs Road Dogg (44-7)</option><option>#80. Ultimo Dragon vs Brian Pillman (29-28)</option><option>#81. Ultimo Dragon vs Goldust (35-19)</option><option>#82. Ultimo Dragon vs Barry Windham (36-9)</option><option>#83. Ultimo Dragon vs Randy Orton (35-34)</option><option>#84. Edge vs Ultimo Dragon (48-8)</option><option>#85. Edge vs Jeff Hardy (54-5)</option><option>#86. Edge vs Razor Ramon (44-21)</option><option>#87. Ted Dibiase vs Edge (39-33)</option><option>#88. Ted Dibiase vs Doink the Clown (59-4)</option><option>#89. Ted Dibiase vs Rick Rude (34-20)</option><option>#90. Ted Dibiase vs. Christian (39-32)</option><option>#91. Ted Dibiase vs. Bret Hart (24-55)</option><option>#92. Bret Hart vs. Scott Steiner (56-8)</option><option>#93. Bret Hart vs. Christopher Daniels (47-15)</option><option>#94. Bret Hart vs. Triple H (40-22)</option><option>#95. Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels (26-47)</option><option>#96. Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty (54-7)</option><option>#97. Shawn Michaels vs. Bryan Danielson (36-12)</option><option>#98. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit (38-33)</option><option>#99. Shawn Michaels vs. The Rock (44-34)</option><option>#100. Earthquake vs. Vader (10-65)</option><option>#101. Vader vs. Bam Bam Bigelow (33-32)</option><option>#102. Vader vs. The Great Muta (32-29)</option><option>#103. Vader vs. Mick Foley (16-42)</option><option>#104. Mick Foley vs. Al Snow (49-7)</option><option>#105. Mick Foley vs. Jerry Lynn (41-11)</option><option>#106. Mick Foley vs. Rob Van Dam (24-38)</option><option>#107. Rob Van Dam vs. Tommy Dreamer (52-4)</option><option>#108. Rob Van Dam vs. John Morrison (54-14)</option><option>#109. Rob Van Dam vs. Owen Hart (36-36)</option><option>#110. Rob Van Dam vs. The Undertaker (22-53)</option><option>#111. The Undertaker vs. Owen Hart (62-16)</option><option>#112. The Undertaker vs. Kane (63-3)</option><option>#113. The Undertaker vs. Diamond Dallas Page (51-18)</option><option>#114. The Undertaker vs. Ric Flair (44-43)</option><option>#115. John "Bradshaw" Layfield vs. Ron Simmons (33-25)</option><option>#116. John "Bradshaw" Layfield vs. Juventud Guerrera (28-19)</option><option>#117. John "Bradshaw" Layfield vs. The Big Show (25-39)</option><option>#118. The Big Show vs. Sid (50-10)</option><option>#119. The Big Show vs. Lance Storm (18-48)</option><option>#120. Lance Storm vs. Meng (65-7)</option><option>#121. Lance Storm vs. John Cena (53-18)</option><option>#122. Lance Storm vs. Sting (23-50)</option><option>#123. Sting vs. The Ultimate Warrior (57-18)</option><option>#124. Sting vs. Dusty Rhodes (50-24)</option><option>#125. Sting vs. CM Punk (41-32)</option><option>#126. Sting vs. Randy Savage (27-50)</option><option>#127. Randy Savage vs. Jim Duggan (65-7)</option><option>#128. Randy Savage vs. AJ Styles (64-13)</option><option>#129. Randy Savage vs. Booker T (61-16)</option><option>#130. Randy Savage vs. Roddy Piper (55-27)</option><option>#131. Rick Martel vs. Tito Santana (35-29)</option><option>#132. Rick Martel vs. Shane Douglas (29-36)</option><option>#133. Shane Douglas vs. Rhino (35-38)</option><option>#134. Rhino vs. Jeff Jarrett (30-36)</option><option>#135. Jeff Jarrett vs. Mike Rotunda (30-38)</option><option>#136. Mike Rotunda vs. Chris Kanyon (44-24)</option><option>#137. Mike Rotunda vs. Barry Windham (38-17)</option><option>#138. Mike Rotunda vs. Scott Hall (11-63)</option><option>#139. Scott Hall vs. Goldberg (60-17)</option><option>#140. Scott Hall vs. Kevin Nash (47-31)</option><option>#141. Scott Hall vs. Brian Pillman (44-34)</option><option>#142. Scott Hall vs. Edge (26-64)</option><option>#143. Edge vs. Matt Hardy (71-12)</option><option>#144. Edge vs. Arn Anderson (38-34)</option><option>#145. Edge vs. Randy Orton (45-36)</option><option>#146. Edge vs. Triple H (29-47)</option><option>#147. Triple H vs. Batista (65-8)</option><option>#148. Triple H vs. Raven (54-25)</option><option>#149. Triple H vs. Ricky Steamboat (44-43)</option><option>#150. Triple H vs. Eddie Guerrero (43-56)</option><option>#151. Eddie Guerrero vs. Trish Stratus (58-12)</option><option>#152. Eddie Guerrero vs. The Great Muta (47-11)</option><option>#153. Eddie Guerrero vs. Curt Hennig (34-43)</option><option>#154. Curt Hennig vs. Jerry Lawler (63-9)</option><option>#155. Curt Hennig vs. Hulk Hogan (54-17)</option><option>#156. Curt Hennig vs. Christian (47-26)</option><option>#157. Curt Hennig vs. The Rock (31-44)</option><option>#158. The Rock vs. Steve Blackman (54-22)</option><option>#159. The Rock vs. Vader (54-14)</option><option>#160. The Rock vs. Mick Foley (48-22)</option><option>#161. The Rock vs. Bret Hart (42-49)</option><option>#162. Bret Hart vs. Davey Boy Smith (70-8)</option><option>#163. Bret Hart vs. Dean Malenko (52-16)</option><option>#164. Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (47-18)</option><option>#165. Bret Hart vs. Ric Flair (53-32)</option><option>#166. Barry Darsow vs. Ed Leslie (45-13)</option><option>#167. Barry Darsow vs. Jacques Rougeau (17-38)</option><option>#168. Jacques Rougeau vs. Evan Bourne (18-49)</option><option>#169. Evan Bourne vs. Mr. Anderson (38-16)</option><option>#170. Evan Bourne vs. Bryan Danielson(10-50)</option><option>#171. Bryan Danielson vs. Billy Gunn (56-16)</option><option>#172. Bryan Danielson vs. The Miz (42-26)</option><option>#173. Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Benoit (27-40)</option><option>#174. Chris Benoit vs. Chavo Guerrero (53-8)</option><option>#175. Chris Benoit vs. Perry Saturn (48-13)</option><option>#176. Chris Benoit vs. Lance Storm (36-21)</option><option>#177. Chris Benoit vs. Ted Dibiase (41-34)</option><option>#178. TAKA Michinoku vs. Sho Funaki (51-9)</option><option>#179. TAKA Michinoku vs. Santino Marella (48-9)</option><option>#180. TAKA Michinoku vs. Rey Mysterio (23-41)</option><option>#181. Rey Mysterio vs. Gregory Helms (34-8)</option><option>#182. Rey Mysterio vs. Jeff Hardy (41-18)</option><option>#183. Rey Mysterio vs. Diamond Dallas Page (34-37)</option><option>#184. Diamond Dallas Page vs. Big Boss Man (49-5)</option><option>#185. Diamond Dallas Page vs. Yoshihiro Tajiri (34-18)</option><option>#186. Diamond Dallas Page vs. CM Punk (19-41)</option><option>#187. CM Punk vs. Terry Funk (35-18)</option><option>#188. CM Punk vs. Kane (40-13)</option><option>#189. CM Punk vs. Rob Van Dam (39-22)</option><option>#190. CM Punk vs. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper (39-37)</option><option>#191. Ted DiBiase, Jr. vs. Cody Rhodes (23-36)</option><option>#192. Cody Rhodes vs. Goldust (10-51)</option><option>#193. Goldust vs. Shelton Benjamin (41-22)</option><option>#194. Goldust vs. Rick Rude (21-37)</option><option>#195. Rick Rude vs. Rick Martel (42-6)</option><option>#196. Rick Rude vs. The Big Show (30-15)</option><option>#197. Rick Rude vs. Jake Roberts (26-38)</option><option>#198. Jake Roberts vs. John "Bradshaw" Layfield (50-16)</option><option>#199. Jake Roberts vs. Arn Anderson (39-31)</option><option>#200. Jake Roberts vs. Brian Pillman (34-20)</option><option>#201. Jake Roberts vs. Edge (42-28)</option><option>#202. Raven vs. Shane Douglas (45-6)</option><option>#203. Raven vs. R-Truth (39-6)</option><option>#204. Raven vs. Booker T (31-40)</option><option>#205. Booker T vs. Jerry Lawler (37-20)</option><option>#206. Booker T vs. Sheamus (51-11)</option><option>#207. Booker T vs. Christian (21-33)</option><option>#208. Christian vs. Jushin "Thunder" Liger (30-21)</option><option>#209. Christian vs. Kevin Nash (30-24)</option><option>#210. Christian vs. Randy Orton (41-22)</option><option>#211. Christian vs. Eddie Guerrero (10-66)</option><option>#212. Eddie Guerrero vs. Andre the Giant (55-16)</option><option>#213. Eddie Guerrero vs. Hulk Hogan (47-29)</option><option>#214. Eddie Guerrero vs. Scott Hall (47-18)</option><option>#215. Eddie Guerrero vs. The Rock (28-40)</option><option>#216. The Rock vs. William Regal (39-17)</option><option>#217. The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar (47-13)</option><option>#218. The Rock vs. Sting (31-19)</option><option>#219. The Rock vs. Triple H (40-27)</option><option>#220. Ahmed Johnson vs. Ezekiel Jackson (41-11)</option><option>#221. Ahmed Johnson vs. The Godfather (6-44)</option><option>#222. The Godfather vs. D'Lo Brown (9-42)</option><option>#223. D'Lo Brown vs. Val Venis (29-20)</option><option>#224. D'Lo Brown vs. Mark Henry (36-23)</option><option>#225. D'Lo Brown vs. The Miz (10-46)</option><option>#226. The Miz vs. John Morrison (52-13)</option><option>#227. The Miz vs. Dolph Ziggler (39-49)</option><option>#228. Dolph Ziggler vs. Wade Barrett (42-21)</option><option>#229. Dolph Ziggler vs. John Cena (38-31)</option><option>#230. Dolph Ziggler vs. Lance Storm (38-37)</option><option>#231. Dolph Ziggler vs. Curt Hennig (18-55)</option><option>#233. Curt Hennig vs. Zack Ryder (62-8)</option><option>#234. Curt Hennig vs. Vader (45-14)</option><option>#234. Curt Hennig vs. Owen Hart (38-22)</option><option>#235. Curt Hennig vs. Ric Flair (48-39)</option><option>#236. Jesse James vs. Billy Gunn (16-38)</option><option>#237. Billy Gunn vs. Sabu (40-15)</option><option>#238. Billy Gunn vs. Scott Steiner (20-38)</option><option>#239. Scott Steiner vs. Billy Kidman (28-26)</option><option>#240. Scott Steiner vs. Alberto Del Rio (25-34)</option><option>#241. Alberto Del Rio vs. X-Pac (29-25)</option><option>#242. Alberto Del Rio vs. Cody Rhodes (19-44)</option><option>#243. Cody Rhodes vs. Kofi Kingston (49-7)</option><option>#244. Cody Rhodes vs. Dusty Rhodes (30-30)</option><option>#245. Cody Rhodes vs. Goldust (18-31)</option><option>#246. Goldust vs. Dusty Rhodes (31-15)</option><option>#247. Goldust vs. Vader (29-39)</option><option>#248. Vader vs. Yokozuna (55-8)</option><option>#249. Vader vs Stan Hansen (31-10)</option><option>#250. Vader vs. Mick Foley (15-41)</option><option>#251. Mick Foley vs. Terry Funk (34-18)</option><option>#252. Mick Foley vs. Santino Marella (60-2)</option><option>#253. Mick Foley vs. Diamond Dallas Page (40-19)</option><option>#254. Mick Foley vs. Edge (49-28)</option><option>#255. Tajiri vs. Super Crazy (62-4)</option><option>#256. Tajiri vs The Great Muta (17-35)</option><option>#257. The Great Muta vs. Ultimo Dragon (32-28)</option><option>#258. The Great Muta vs. Brian Pillman (32-21)</option><option>#259. The Great Muta vs. Booker T (24-36)</option><option>#260. Booker T vs. Ron Simmons (50-13)</option><option>#261. Booker T vs. John "Bradshaw" Layfield (37-20)</option><option>#262. Booker T vs. Daniel Bryan (28-20)</option><option>#263. Booker T vs. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper (20-40)</option><option>#264. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs. "Cowboy" Bob Orton (48-6)</option><option>#265. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs. Christian (30-13)</option><option>#266. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs. Scott Hall (37-15)</option><option>#267. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs. Eddie Guerrero (31-32)</option><option>#268. Eddie Guerrero vs. Mr. Anderson (56-1)</option><option>#269. Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (41-11)</option><option>#270. Eddie Guerrero vs. Ted DiBiase (41-13)</option><option>#271. Eddie Guerrero vs. Triple H (40-32)</option><option>#272. Kane vs. Ryback (50-15)</option><option>#273. Kane vs. Sid (28-23)</option><option>#274. Kane vs. Big Show (41-13)</option><option>#275. Kane vs. Sting (12-46)</option><option>#276. Sting vs. Lex Luger (49-2)</option><option>#277. Sting vs. Rick Rude (30-28)</option><option>#278. Sting vs. Rob Van Dam (37-12)</option><option>#279. Sting vs. Hulk Hogan (29-30)</option><option>#280. Hulk Hogan vs. Andre "The Giant" (46-14)</option><option>#281. Hulk Hogan vs. Jeff Hardy (49-11)</option><option>#282. Hulk Hogan vs. Ultimate Warrior (37-15)</option></select>

<select><option selected="selected">Previous Better Wrestler Hall of Fame</option><option>"Stone Cold" Steve Austin</option><option>Taz</option><option>Kurt Angle</option><option>Chris Jericho</option><option>"The Heartbreak Kid" Shawn Michaels</option><option>The Undertaker</option><option>"Macho Man" Randy Savage</option><option>Bret "Hitman" Hart</option><option>Chris Benoit</option><option>CM Punk</option><option>Jake "The Snake" Roberts</option><option>The Rock</option><option>"Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig</option><option>Mick Foley</option><option>Eddie Guerrero</option><option>Hulk Hogan</option></select>

<select><option selected="selected">Previous Best Wrestler Tournament History</option><option>ROUND 1</option><option>#1. Randy Savage vs. Taz (72-4)</option><option>#2. The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin (42-42)</option><option>#3. Chris Jericho vs. Jake Roberts (52-15)</option><option>#4. Bret Hart vs. CM Punk (44-24)</option><option>#5. Curt Hennig vs. The Rock (27-31)</option><option>#6. Mick Foley vs. Kurt Angle (18-41)</option><option>#7. Eddie Guerrero vs. Shawn Michaels (13-50)</option><option>#8. Chris Benoit vs. Hulk Hogan (28-36)</option><option>ROUND 2</option><option>#9. Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan (41-18)</option><option>#10. The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels (14-22-26)</option><option>#11. Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle (30-27)</option><option>#12. Bret Hart vs. The Rock (32-34)</option><option>ROUND 3</option><option>#13. Randy Savage vs. The Rock (41-22)</option><option>#14. Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels (20-43)</option><option>ROUND 4</option><option>#15. Randy Savage vs Shawn Michaels (25-48)</option></select>

Destor

06-30-2017, 03:20 PM

By popular demand

Ruien

06-30-2017, 03:22 PM

Cena. Andre is 100 percent a legend and a beast but Cena is still a Rushmore wrestler.

Ol Dirty Dastard

06-30-2017, 03:22 PM

Andre because he's Andre.

#1-norm-fan

06-30-2017, 03:23 PM

Gooooodddammit. Gotta think on this one.

Destor

06-30-2017, 03:50 PM

Cena. Andre is 100 percent a legend and a beast but Cena is still a Rushmore wrestler.
SO your argument is Andre isnt?

Mr. Nerfect

06-30-2017, 04:05 PM

Andre the Giant is overlooked by many simply as a big man. His work was genius. His work as Monster Roussimoff was athletic and savvy. The dude legitimately drew, and in my opinion, is far more recognizable than John Cena. Everybody has heard of Andre the Giant. His presence on the Obey t-shirts lends him more contemporary cultural significance than Cena.

Plus, Andre was in The Princess Bride. That's a more prominent contribution to cinematography than anything Cena has ever done.

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/xod71z" allowfullscreen></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xod71z_monster-roussimoff-aka-andre-the-giant-vs-strong-kobayashi-iwe-05-06-1972_sport" target="_blank">Monster Roussimoff (aka Andre the Giant) vs...</a> <i>by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/25COOLPIN17" target="_blank">25COOLPIN17</a></i>

#1-norm-fan

06-30-2017, 04:31 PM

I always try to factor in the era/booking in order to judge the wrestler himself more fairly in these things. Cena is fucking great and would have been an even bigger star in any other era. That being said, I still don't think I can put him over Andre.

mike adamle

06-30-2017, 04:36 PM

My vote is probably biased since I was born in the early 90's but Cena easily based on how much more he entertained me than Andre. I've seen some of Andre's older work and it was fun. I get that Andre is probably as popular as Hogan and Cena is a tier below that. But I'd much rather watch Cena than Andre in a wrestling show. I always wonder how much of a pop culture icon The Big Show could've been if he had been presented like the larger than life Andre.

Destor

06-30-2017, 05:10 PM

I will abstain for now. Noid has me leaning Andre. Will wait to see if anyone can push me the otherway.

Ol Dirty Dastard

06-30-2017, 05:25 PM

Mr. Nerfect

06-30-2017, 05:34 PM

Thanks. I think "Andre for being Andre" kind of captures it too.

Ruien

06-30-2017, 06:36 PM

SO your argument is Andre isnt?

Correct. Only 4 go in Mount Rushmore and Andre isn't one of them.

Ol Dirty Dastard

06-30-2017, 06:40 PM

Surely Andre before Cena. Cena is cool and all but he ain't touching a wrestling Mount Rushmore.

Ruien

06-30-2017, 06:42 PM

The man who carried the company for a decade while transitioning into a PG era isn't on there?

Mr. Nerfect

06-30-2017, 06:43 PM

Who are the four biggest stars in American wrestling history? You'd surely have to put Hogan, Rock and Austin up the first names that come to mind, but after that you're probably looking at Andre, really. Or...Flair?

Destor

06-30-2017, 06:45 PM

Flair wayyyyyyy before Rock

Destor

06-30-2017, 06:46 PM

4 year career, cmon. Hot 4 years...but doesnt touch Flair

Mr. Nerfect

06-30-2017, 06:48 PM

The man who carried the company for a decade while transitioning into a PG era isn't on there?

Ratings have steadily decreased, and a lot of people don't seem to think much, critically, of the PG era. It's an era that has seen their PPV business go dark.

Andre helped put wrestling on the map. He's a legitimate cultural figure. I was watching an episode of QI recently where Stephen Fry was talking about his significance. Andre's not just some obscure big guy who worked with Hogan -- he helped fill up buildings and helped create a myth around pro-wrestling that allowed Hogan and Vince to springboard the Rock 'n' Wrestling movement. He wasn't just a pushed guy, regardless of how talented and hard working that pushed guy is.

Cena doesn't top Flair for an American wrestling Mt. Rushmore. Dave Meltzer makes the case that Triple H drew more money for the WWE in the 2000-2010 period than Cena actually did, which is a sad state of affairs, given that Triple H was a negligible factor when working with The Rock during their hottest year.

Mr. Nerfect

06-30-2017, 06:49 PM

4 year career, cmon. Hot 4 years...but doesnt touch Flair

Yeah, okay, I'll cop to that. I was thinking more about the magnitude of those four years, but that might not really be the point of a Rushmore.

Mr. Nerfect

06-30-2017, 06:51 PM

These conversations always get dragged into modernity too. Should there be a Frank Gotch, George Hackenschmidt or Strangler Lewis up there?

Ol Dirty Dastard

06-30-2017, 06:54 PM

Ratings have steadily decreased, and a lot of people don't seem to think much, critically, of the PG era. It's an era that has seen their PPV business go dark.

Andre helped put wrestling on the map. He's a legitimate cultural figure. I was watching an episode of QI recently where Stephen Fry was talking about his significance. Andre's not just some obscure big guy who worked with Hogan -- he helped fill up buildings and helped create a myth around pro-wrestling that allowed Hogan and Vince to springboard the Rock 'n' Wrestling movement. He wasn't just a pushed guy, regardless of how talented and hard working that pushed guy is.

Cena doesn't top Flair for an American wrestling Mt. Rushmore. Dave Meltzer makes the case that Triple H drew more money for the WWE in the 2000-2010 period than Cena actually did, which is a sad state of affairs, given that Triple H was a negligible factor when working with The Rock during their hottest year.

Pretty much.

#1-norm-fan

06-30-2017, 06:56 PM

These conversations always get dragged into modernity too. Should there be a Frank Gotch, George Hackenschmidt or Strangler Lewis up there?

Could make a case for Lou Thesz and Gorgeous George, too.

Ol Dirty Dastard

06-30-2017, 06:57 PM

The man who carried the company for a decade while transitioning into a PG era isn't on there?

I mean "carried" a company that had no risk of falling apart, and had already won the war, and the company has essentially been shit since he's been on top. Mount Rushmore is for guys who put wrestling on the map, not for guys who've kinda just been there.

Andre the Giant is a historical figure. John Cena is kind of just well... John Cena.

Mr. Nerfect

06-30-2017, 07:04 PM

The WWE ran off their audience in order to jam Cena in, and now their current audience depends on Cena.

Maluco

06-30-2017, 07:07 PM

Cena is great, but he is also overrated. Seems the internet completely 180'ed on him over his US title reign but he was absolute muck for a LOT of that preceding decade.

Sure he suffered from PG and repetitive booking, and yeah, he is funny, can talk and has great matches with the right opponents, but he still has spent long periods with an extremely stale character, had some horrendously boring feuds and not really evolved a whole lot as a personality in a time of ratings decline and a lack of competition for the top spot in the company.

He is great, but he is Warrior, Hitman, even Macho Man great in my opinion. I love them all...but they are not that upper echelon. Cena was never close to Austin, Hogan, Rock in terms of sheer star power.

Andre was close...very close, if not there already. Not only does he have global appeal, but he was a massive draw and THE guy that handed the torch over to Hulk Hogan himself.

He was tremendously respected by his peers and cherished by Vince Sr. He was unique, larger than life and, like Noida said, he could wrestle too!

Cena is great, he is an 8,5 out of 10 guy for me in the history of the business, but Andre is a 9 for me as an overall package, just under the very best.

Mr. Nerfect

06-30-2017, 07:35 PM

The US Title reign did a lot of for perceptions of Cena, but the Brock squash was cathartic too.

DAMN iNATOR

06-30-2017, 07:38 PM

4 year career, cmon. Hot 4 years...but doesnt touch Flair

But as of right now, for me personally, anyway, Rock still makes it, but I digress.

As to the poll itself, you've got a guy with 16 world titles to tie Flair, with one which lasted a bit over a year, and on the other side you've got a truly iconic figure from wrestling's past who went 15 years undefeated, had a long and storied rivalry with Hogan and was the inspiration/template for The Giant/Big Show. André in a landslide for me.

Ol Dirty Dastard

06-30-2017, 07:53 PM

lol inspiration/template for the big show. Way to go Gooby.

A.J.K

06-30-2017, 08:06 PM

Had to go with the 8th Wonder of the world.

Cena has been the flag bearer for WWE a good 11 years now. But for all he has done, he just doesn't come close. Andre had a mystique about him, he was just an awesome presence in the ring.

And Without that historical moment of Hogan Slamming him at Wrestlemania 3, WWE might have never really peaked. People still talk about that moment even today.

Lock Jaw

06-30-2017, 08:22 PM

To me, this is pretty much John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar again.

It comes down to a guy who is a "total package" in and out of the ring vs. a guy whose "mystique" and "aura" was off the charts.

I voted John Cena over Brock Lesnar, and I'm going to have to do the same with Andre.

A lot of the time I ask myself if I were running a wrestling company, who would I want on my roster. I'd think about it a bit, and then I'd choose John Cena.

Ol Dirty Dastard

06-30-2017, 08:24 PM

lol I would not want John Cena (at least how he's been written and presented) in my main event, even though I respect him. Maybe presented as someone/something else I'd be down with him but I can only see what's been given to me.

Sepholio

06-30-2017, 08:26 PM

Destor

06-30-2017, 08:28 PM

I would put Cena on my Mt Rushmore. Andre wouldn't make the cut. Andres peak imo was when he was basically playing second fiddle to Hogan. Cena IS this eras Hogan or SCSA. He is the top dog and has been for over a decade now.

Plus, as blasphemous as it is to say this, Andre never really did it for me.
Counter argument though (because im hoping you can sway my vote) cena was the "hogan" of an era drastically inferior to every era except for the HBK/Hart era.

Sepholio

06-30-2017, 08:29 PM

Sepholio

06-30-2017, 08:37 PM

Counter argument though (because im hoping you can sway my vote) cena was the "hogan" of an era drastically inferior to every era except for the HBK/Hart era.

You are absolutely right here. It has been a bad era. But that isn't his fault. That's the Era of PG booking. Things were already going downhill before he became the draw. It should say something for him that when shit gets bad they pretty much fall back on Cena as the only hope to salvage things. Because no one else other than part time special attractions from a more popular Era can do it for them. Every time Cena goes on hiatus it seems like there is a legit downturn in the ratings and the quality of the whole product. That's why they hype him up so hard imo...they know he is the only real star they have that people will buy into.

I often wonder how well Cena would have drawn in the attitude Era when he wouldn't have been held back or dumbed down. And even though it is pure conjecture....I think he would have legit been the biggest thing in wrestling history. He can pull groups of people in that none of the others could have. Young people would have flocked to him. He would have run circles around everyone other than the rock promo wise. He was better in ring than SCSA or The Rock or HHH. He is a legit total package, a true star, and he has been held back to protect Linda McMahon political career.

Ol Dirty Dastard

06-30-2017, 08:39 PM

Sepholio

06-30-2017, 08:45 PM

I guess what I am getting at is basically that every era has had a handful of people who achieved true stardom. It seems like since the PG era has come around that only one man has been able to adapt and achieve that level of stardom within the confines of this historically bad era. John Cena. While everyone else seems to struggle to carve out a niche in this era, Cena has consistently been several steps ahead. Who else is there? Orton? Because the distance between them is massive imo and Orton is one of a very few people I would list as draws during PG Bullshit.

Ol Dirty Dastard

06-30-2017, 08:47 PM

The same argument you made for Andre and Goldberg can be made for Cena. He's been more protected than anyone other than HHH.

Blonde Moment

06-30-2017, 08:54 PM

Andre without a doubt. Without Andre could there even be a WWE today?

Rushmore:
Hogan-Andre-Flair-Rhodes
Hart-Austin-Hbk-Rock
Angle-HHH-Lesnar-Cena

Ol Dirty Dastard

06-30-2017, 08:55 PM

lol@ HHH

Sepholio

06-30-2017, 08:58 PM

Linda McMahon's political career has nothing to do with it. You can do PG and make it good. It's just bad booking, and in some cases, poor execution from Cena. He's a hell of a talent but IMO would have gotten chewed up in the shark tank during the attitude era.

Linda McMahon political career is the reason we have a PG era. And I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Wrestling was an edgy thing and violent af. It's hard to be edgy and violent and believable when everything has to be catered to 10 year olds instead of adults. Try and make any other wrestling organization or fighting organization go PG and they would fold up and die.

That's why people drifted away from the PG era. Older fans experienced what wrestling used to be and saw a superior product. Them you take away the edginess of it. The you never know what will happen aspect is gone. Suddenly guys who came off as believable during promos are spouting childish nonsense and have to be involved in increasingly stupid feuds. Moves that were staples of wrestling suddenly get banned because omg someone might get hurt. We can't show this stuff to children! Why not, you always have?

So bye bye adult crowd. And I don't know about you, but even when I was a kid, I was drawn to wrestling because it was fantastically violent and unhinged and kind of taboo in a way. I wasn't allowed to say or do this stuff, so it was an amazing outlet. With this PG era, you don't draw as many kids. You know why? Because they can still get those same kind of kicks from other avenues of entertainment that aren't concerned with dumbing down their product for appearance and to help someone in a floundering political career.

There are some things that go out the door with PG. They lost their ability to be believable. They aren't going to get it back until they remove the safety. It's like a good violent action movie, like John Wick. Make a PG version of it and I bet you it flops. Because it won't be believable and the actors will have scripts that make them sound like idiotic teenagers being overdramatic.

Lock Jaw

06-30-2017, 09:02 PM

Did you know wrestling was PG before the Attitude Era?

Ol Dirty Dastard

06-30-2017, 09:04 PM

total fucking cop out and complete myth. They were on the decline BIG TIME before the PG era. Revisionist nonsense. Started declining during the invasion.

Ol Dirty Dastard

06-30-2017, 09:04 PM

And the big boom in the 80s was 100% PG.

Mr. Nerfect

06-30-2017, 09:06 PM

Also when you are booked to go undefeated for 15 years you pretty much automatically become a legend. A legend because that's what the booker wanted you to be. Goldberg went undefeated for like a year and a half and look how that made him a star even though in reality he is balls.

Andre the Giant wasn't really undefeated for 15 years. He would also be body slammed far more regularly than promoted by Vince. Andre would go around to territories and basically pop them by letting their babyface slam him and look good, maybe get a countout win or something. You're buying into the hype machine for Andre there, and that says something about his mystique.

You are absolutely right here. It has been a bad era. But that isn't his fault. That's the Era of PG booking. Things were already going downhill before he became the draw. It should say something for him that when shit gets bad they pretty much fall back on Cena as the only hope to salvage things. Because no one else other than part time special attractions from a more popular Era can do it for them. Every time Cena goes on hiatus it seems like there is a legit downturn in the ratings and the quality of the whole product. That's why they hype him up so hard imo...they know he is the only real star they have that people will buy into.

I often wonder how well Cena would have drawn in the attitude Era when he wouldn't have been held back or dumbed down. And even though it is pure conjecture....I think he would have legit been the biggest thing in wrestling history. He can pull groups of people in that none of the others could have. Young people would have flocked to him. He would have run circles around everyone other than the rock promo wise. He was better in ring than SCSA or The Rock or HHH. He is a legit total package, a true star, and he has been held back to protect Linda McMahon political career.

Ratings would actually do better when someone else would grab the belt off Cena. Edge winning the belt off Cena blasted them up half a ratings point. I remember reading somewhere that ratings generally held better under Orton than Cena. Ratings have been going down ever since Stephanie McMahon entered creative, but Cena hasn't exactly been this dude that has made a noticeable positive difference to the product, in any terms of television metric, until quite recently into his long, long, long push.

I completely disagree with the sentiment about him being better in the ring than all of those guys except Triple H. Austin and Rock were magnetic and fantastic at holding fans' interests. Promo-wise? Cena can talk alright, but I'm not sure he doesn't get smoked by the authentic bad-assery of Austin and Rock. Some of Cena's promos actually manage to miss the point of themselves too. He's not a god on the mic. Some of his stuff stinks. Some is excellent.

Honestly, I'm not sure he makes it past mid-card in the Attitude era.

Destor

06-30-2017, 09:06 PM

Hard to turn back the clock on that stuff though. Once you light a guy on fire its not easy to start telling poop jokes

Destor

06-30-2017, 09:08 PM

Also Cena hasnt been good for tv but he's been killer for merch. Respect where its due.

Destor

06-30-2017, 09:08 PM

5-9...still undecided

Ol Dirty Dastard

06-30-2017, 09:09 PM

Hard to turn back the clock on that stuff though. Once you light a guy on fire its not easy to start telling poop jokes

That's the thing though, they didn't have to tell poop jokes because they were pg. That is just Vince being a fucking idiot. It could still be violent, but just dial back on the blood and gratuity. But let's get serious, Vince and co. don't really understand subtlety and nuance.

Ol Dirty Dastard

06-30-2017, 09:09 PM

5-9...still undecided

It's a good one, Cowboy Bill Watts at it again.

Mr. Nerfect

06-30-2017, 09:10 PM

Another reason for the PG era is to bring back advertisers. If you've got good sponsors and can hold a good place in the ratings, it's more likely that the USA Network isn't going to boot you, and destroy a key stream of revenue. Despite being #1 in cable, RAW has been bounced off networks before because they've just decided they want to go in a different direction. A large part of that is the perception of wrestling that the Attitude era helped foster.

Destor

06-30-2017, 09:11 PM

That's the thing though, they didn't have to tell poop jokes because they were pg. That is just Vince being a fucking idiot. It could still be violent, but just dial back on the blood and gratuity. But let's get serious, Vince and co. don't really understand subtlety and nuance.

Ibe never bought into wrestling with out blood though. Red is green baby.

Ol Dirty Dastard

06-30-2017, 09:12 PM

Ibe never bought into wrestling with out blood though. Red is green baby.

They could potentially censor it out too, and use it only in special moments. Attitude era used too much blood. Guys were gigging every fucking week, was stupid as shit.

Ruien

06-30-2017, 09:14 PM

Lock Jaw

06-30-2017, 09:15 PM

I dunno if I made this up, but I swear during the 80s when someone got hit with a chair or something a big red "CENSORED" text would come over where the chair was connecting.......

Destor

06-30-2017, 09:15 PM

I like the old method random gigging. Sells the danger element.

Destor

06-30-2017, 09:16 PM

Ol Dirty Dastard

06-30-2017, 09:16 PM

I dunno if I made this up, but I swear during the 80s when someone got hit with a chair or something a big red "CENSORED" text would come over where the chair was connecting.......

yep

Ol Dirty Dastard

06-30-2017, 09:17 PM

My Rushmore is Cena, Hogan, Austin, and Y2J. Y2J may be replaced with Flair depending on the given day.

lol I love Y2J but he and Cena have no place there. I mean I guess if it's your personal one then sure. But damn.

Lock Jaw

06-30-2017, 09:19 PM

I imagine Rushmore Jericho sculpted with him doing his biggest "troll" smile

Ruien

06-30-2017, 09:21 PM

lol I love Y2J but he and Cena have no place there. I mean I guess if it's your personal one then sure. But damn.

Naw. Personal one would have Angle. Imo the GOAT but wasn't around long enough.

Ol Dirty Dastard

06-30-2017, 10:13 PM

Why would Jericho be on your mount rushmore?

Mr. Nerfect

06-30-2017, 10:54 PM

My Rushmore is Cena, Hogan, Austin, and Y2J. Y2J may be replaced with Flair depending on the given day.

Andre is amazing and probably the best special attraction wrestling will ever see. But Cena is just a total package. You can't blame him for the ratings decreasing since that was happening regardless. If anything, Cena brought in little kids to help combat the decline of the crop of fans leaving.

I've got no clue how Jericho makes it in there. But yes, you can blame Cena, in part, for ratings declining, because they happened because he was the big draw. Again, I point you towards guys more people would watch if they got the belt (Edge, Orton, etc.). Cena didn't plug any sort of sinkhole -- he was the sinkhole.

He did great merchandise with the audience he did strengthen, and he's not a bad wrestler by any stretch; but this idea that he has somehow been a draw needs to be dismissed. He isn't. Ratings are now dependent on him, because they've jammed so much into the John Cena train that when he's not there everything gets derailed. That's a different thing to spiking ratings based on how hot you are as an act during the main body of your career.

Mr. Nerfect

06-30-2017, 10:57 PM

Austin, Hogan, Flair and Andre are probably the national era Rushmore, to be perfectly honest. Destor's point aside, I do think you can make a case for Rock -- given that we are talking about a specific window of time anyway, and Rock is easily one of the biggest stars in that time frame.

Bad News Gertner

06-30-2017, 11:00 PM

Austin, Hogan, Rock and Bruno

Destor

06-30-2017, 11:21 PM

Dont understand the lack of Flair...

Lock Jaw

06-30-2017, 11:38 PM

Ruien

07-01-2017, 12:06 AM

I've got no clue how Jericho makes it in there. But yes, you can blame Cena, in part, for ratings declining, because they happened because he was the big draw. Again, I point you towards guys more people would watch if they got the belt (Edge, Orton, etc.). Cena didn't plug any sort of sinkhole -- he was the sinkhole.

He did great merchandise with the audience he did strengthen, and he's not a bad wrestler by any stretch; but this idea that he has somehow been a draw needs to be dismissed. He isn't. Ratings are now dependent on him, because they've jammed so much into the John Cena train that when he's not there everything gets derailed. That's a different thing to spiking ratings based on how hot you are as an act during the main body of your career.

Ratings were already decreasing before Cena was on top though.

Ruien

07-01-2017, 12:08 AM

Why would Jericho be on your mount rushmore?

Dude is amazing at everything he does. Face/heel it does not matter. He reinvented himself more times than I can count. He has the longevity too. He has no cracks in his game. He is basically Flair besides being able to be a face.

DAMN iNATOR

07-01-2017, 12:21 AM

Linda McMahon political career is the reason we have a PG era.

And meanwhile, let's all put on our blinders and our rose-colored glasses and pretend Benoit never happened. I'm sorry, dude, I love you as a poster, but you're absolutely out of your fucking mind if you seriously think what happened surrounding him 10 years ago now wasn't the original catalyst for WWE going PG in 2008. Did Linda's political aspirations have some small factor? I'm sure they did, but not nearly as much as you'd have us believe.

Just sayin'.

A.J.K

07-01-2017, 12:30 AM

My Mount rushmore would be as follows:

Bret Hart, Hulk Hogan, Undertaker and Ric Flair

Mr. Nerfect

07-01-2017, 12:51 AM

Dont understand the lack of Flair...

I've never been able to judge Flair historically. He's so "rassling" that I'm not sure he really crosses over into the mainstream conscience the same way. It's not a knock on him, and I'm probably underestimating him, but he doesn't feel as "huge" as guys who did transcend. I feel dumb typing that though.

I think if WCW had won the Monday Night War, Flair would be on without question. He probably should be anyway. Limiting this to four is just dumb, really.

DAMN iNATOR

07-01-2017, 12:54 AM

How is it "dumb" exactly? Is it "dumb" to have the Final Four consist of the only four teams?

Mr. Nerfect

07-01-2017, 12:57 AM

Dude is amazing at everything he does. Face/heel it does not matter. He reinvented himself more times than I can count. He has the longevity too. He has no cracks in his game. He is basically Flair besides being able to be a face.

I personally enjoyed babyface Jericho from 2000/2001, but I heard that he doesn't really hold up. Plus, his face runs since have been fairly bland and uninspired. It seems like he's just got Y2J gear as a face. His 2008 heel run was brilliant, but his latest return, beyond a few inspired mic performances, was pretty underwhelming. I think he's just about done in the ring, to be honest. He can no longer deliver to the level that people expect.

A great career, but let's not forget how awful his Undisputed Champion push was. Jericho himself admits that he hadn't yet developed the skills to play a heavyweight, top-tier, main event heel.

Flair could also be an amazing babyface who drew money. You also have a lot of other people who can do it both about as well, if not better than Jericho. I'd say Angle was about as good a babyface as Jericho was. Angle actually managed to win the WWE Title as a babyface. Eddie Guerrero was brilliant in both roles. Shawn Michaels may have suffered as a babyface in his initial run, but during his second run, he was seamless in both roles. Austin and Rock can play both characters effectively.

I don't really get why Jericho is being ranked a notch about everyone else here. A great talent, but far from the greatest in any area, far from the most well-rounded, and far from the most effective.

Mr. Nerfect

07-01-2017, 01:01 AM

How is it "dumb" exactly? Is it "dumb" to have the Final Four consist of the only four teams?

Why even do a Mt. Rushmore of wrestling? Why is that even a thing? You have to overlook so many important contributors from different eras. It's restrictive and doesn't cover any area of consensus without further clarification.

Mr. Nerfect

07-01-2017, 01:03 AM

I believe we have had several threads about a rassling Mount Rushmore.

WWE.com also picked their Mount Rushmore in an article:

http://www.wwe.com/f/wysiwyg/image/2012/11/20121105_MT_RUSHMORE_5.jpg

Undertaker, Stone Cold, Darren Young, and Hulk Hogan

Of course Undertaker and Cena make it on. It's actually not a bad one in the strict "WWE canon," where they can basically assert whatever truth they want. I wouldn't be surprised if Triple H nudged off Hogan.

Mr. Nerfect

07-01-2017, 01:04 AM

Ratings were already decreasing before Cena was on top though.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean Cena was the best choice for business, because he evidently wasn't. Business going on a downward trend in no way excuses you making it worse. That's the excuse Russo defenders use when backing up his WCW run. If ratings go up when you lose, then you are a little bit to blame.

#1-norm-fan

07-01-2017, 02:32 AM

Linda McMahon political career is the reason we have a PG era. And I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Wrestling was an edgy thing and violent af. It's hard to be edgy and violent and believable when everything has to be catered to 10 year olds instead of adults. Try and make any other wrestling organization or fighting organization go PG and they would fold up and die.

That's why people drifted away from the PG era. Older fans experienced what wrestling used to be and saw a superior product. Them you take away the edginess of it. The you never know what will happen aspect is gone. Suddenly guys who came off as believable during promos are spouting childish nonsense and have to be involved in increasingly stupid feuds. Moves that were staples of wrestling suddenly get banned because omg someone might get hurt. We can't show this stuff to children! Why not, you always have?

So bye bye adult crowd. And I don't know about you, but even when I was a kid, I was drawn to wrestling because it was fantastically violent and unhinged and kind of taboo in a way. I wasn't allowed to say or do this stuff, so it was an amazing outlet. With this PG era, you don't draw as many kids. You know why? Because they can still get those same kind of kicks from other avenues of entertainment that aren't concerned with dumbing down their product for appearance and to help someone in a floundering political career.

There are some things that go out the door with PG. They lost their ability to be believable. They aren't going to get it back until they remove the safety. It's like a good violent action movie, like John Wick. Make a PG version of it and I bet you it flops. Because it won't be believable and the actors will have scripts that make them sound like idiotic teenagers being overdramatic.

Remember when DX came back before the PG era and was all edgy with their dropping diarrhea on people's heads, raising the pitch of Vince McMahon's voice so that he sounded funny and drawing dialogue bubbles coming from his mouth that said "I love cocks" with a picture of a rooster? Yeah...

WWE was lame and out of touch before the PG era. PG is not the problem.

Ol Dirty Dastard

07-01-2017, 06:09 AM

Jericho was super over in his recent run Noidsy. Worked in today's landscape. I know you love to be a hater of the current product, but he got a list over, as well as the phrases "You're gonna get... it" and "stupid idiot". Great character work. Clunkier in the ring but he's well into his 40s.

Ol Dirty Dastard

07-01-2017, 06:12 AM

Remember when DX came back before the PG era and was all edgy with their dropping diarrhea on people's heads, raising the pitch of Vince McMahon's voice so that he sounded funny and drawing dialogue bubbles coming from his mouth that said "I love cocks" with a picture of a rooster? Yeah...

WWE was lame and out of touch before the PG era. PG is not the problem.

Also, that super amazing edgy storyline of HHH fucking a corpse.

Mr. Nerfect

07-01-2017, 06:19 AM

Ol Dirty Dastard

07-01-2017, 06:23 AM

I mean he can still "go". Just not at the same level we've been spoiled with.

Bad News Gertner

07-01-2017, 07:21 AM

Dont understand the lack of Flair...

It was either him or Bruno.

Ol Dirty Dastard

07-01-2017, 07:38 AM

Yeah thats a tough choice cuz Bruno was the fucking man.

Ol Dirty Dastard

07-01-2017, 07:39 AM

Id go Bruno b4 Hogan but thats personal bias. I run hot and cold on Hulk tho. But he really was awesome

Destor

07-01-2017, 09:46 AM

Voted Andre. His impact was bigger, his draw bigger. Cena, despite his success, cant touch those two factors and theyre are arguably the most important.

Mr. Nerfect

07-01-2017, 05:02 PM

It's not like Andre was a lump either. A good worker, not even "for what what he was." Dude knew how to do what he needed to do.

Mr. Nerfect

07-01-2017, 05:05 PM

I mean he can still "go". Just not at the same level we've been spoiled with.

True. I liked his match against AJ Styles at WrestleMania, for example. More so than most, because I hadn't been watching the constant Jericho catalog. Unfortunately, I think that standard of what people expect from Jericho does set the bar high for him. He's never been a dude associated with mediocre ring work. Other guys can lose all the steps they want in the ring and still manage to keep the essence of who they are as a wrestler in-tact. Jericho's is too largely chained to being able to "go," in my opinion.

It's not like he sucks or anything, but it's always going to leave a dampness over a match when people are conditioned to expect ***1/2 or **** performances every match he has. The pay-off to the angle is going to be that match, and if that match disappoints, he's not going to have the effect intended.

Emperor Smeat

07-01-2017, 09:29 PM

Cena although for similar reasons to a couple other matchups of this type in the past. Just seen a ton more of his stuff and when it occurred for a personal connection (good and bad) while almost all of Andre's career and best stuff was before my time watching wrestling.

Andre is a very deserving legend in the WWE and in wrestling but just don't have a real strong personal connection/feeling to his work overall to vote for him.

Nicky Fives

07-02-2017, 04:52 AM

Perhaps the biggest draw in the history of the business. Andre.

Rammsteinmad

07-02-2017, 12:29 PM

John Cena.

Andre was the way before my time (started watching in 1992 at the age of five), and what I've seen of Andre hasn't really entertained me.

Blonde Moment

07-02-2017, 09:49 PM

John Cena.

Andre was the way before my time (started watching in 1992 at the age of five), and what I've seen of Andre hasn't really entertained me.

Andre was a 20 year vet by then and pretty much close to death and he still could draw...

Shisen Kopf

07-02-2017, 10:20 PM

Lex luger is behind the death of Andre im sure of it. Andre the Giant should beat everyone in the better rassler contest except Hogan bc he slammed him at Rasslemania 3.

Blue Demon

07-03-2017, 09:15 AM

Not much of a doubt in my mind....Andre. One of the greatest ever, and the best big man. He could draw, work and had a great presence.

Black Widow

07-04-2017, 11:39 AM

Gorilla boy shouldn't even got this far.

Bad News Gertner

07-04-2017, 01:31 PM

Oh shit I forgot to vote

Bad News Gertner

07-04-2017, 01:35 PM

Dont understand the lack of Flair...

Koko B Ware was more recognizable to the average person than Flair was during Flair's major run

DAMN iNATOR

07-04-2017, 06:25 PM

Oh shit I forgot to vote

Smooth move, Ex-Lax. :roll::p

Ol Dirty Dastard

07-04-2017, 07:00 PM

Koko B Ware was more recognizable to the average person than Flair was during Flair's major run

In the Northeast.

Bad News Gertner

07-05-2017, 12:55 AM

In the Northeast.

Nationwide.

Mr. Nerfect

07-05-2017, 03:06 AM

Sixx

07-05-2017, 03:10 AM

I'm curious to hear that debate. Just how recognizable was Flair? I personally wonder how far it got, because when people talk about him, they still spell his name as "Rick." He seems more "obscure" a reference.

He's quite recognizable. If people in Poland (well, not that many but still) recognize him I'd say that's quite something.

Most people here ever heard of Hogan, but I know a few people that heard of Flair even if they haven't seen wrestling at all.

Mr. Nerfect

07-05-2017, 03:46 AM

Interesting. The wrestlers I had heard of pre-fandom were Hogan, Andre, Austin, Rock, Undertaker, Rikishi, Kane, Mankind, Kevin Nash, Kane, Mr. Ass and Goldberg.

Destor

07-05-2017, 09:48 AM

Nationwide.
Absolutely not nation wide. The South was always NWA/WCW country. From TX to VA was a stronghold. You couldnt get around with out hearing about it.

This is not hear say. This was how it was until Steve Austin.

Mr. Nerfect

07-05-2017, 11:38 AM

I legitimately wish I had more to contribute on the subject, but I've never really appreciated the impact of the NWA/WCW historically until recently, due to the smearing of Vince McMahon's narrative over everything.

Ol Dirty Dastard

07-05-2017, 11:51 AM

Emperor Smeat

07-05-2017, 06:48 PM

Absolutely not nation wide. The South was always NWA/WCW country. From TX to VA was a stronghold. You couldnt get around with out hearing about it.

This is not hear say. This was how it was until Steve Austin.

Vince also learned this the hard way when he caused the "Black Saturday" incident to occur which generated massive backlash from wrestling fans in the South who didn't like WWF style wrestling. Probably the first time Vince realized his growing wrestling empire wasn't as dominating as he thought at the time.

Ol Dirty Dastard

07-05-2017, 06:52 PM

It would make sense that this would change with Austin, as his roughneck style would go over well in the South.