Excellence of Execution - appreciation thread

[The MAC]

<div style="██████████relative;height:0;padding-bottom:56.25%"><iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ejTAbP7oalg?ecver=2" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" style="██████████absolute;width:100%;height:100%;left:0" allowfullscreen></iframe></div>

[The MAC]

<div style="██████████relative;height:0;padding-bottom:75.0%"><iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/XT28F-oSTDQ?ecver=2" width="480" height="360" frameborder="0" style="██████████absolute;width:100%;height:100%;left:0" allowfullscreen></iframe></div>

[Maluco]

Bret Hart was awesome, don't care what anyone says. Was my favourite growing up because he told stories. He made it all look real (prob because he was such a mark for himself, yeah)

But there is no-one around anymore that makes everything look as real as Bret did. Am a massive fan and really miss the likes of him around today.

By all accounts (including his own), his Summerslam match with Bulldog is a minor miracle, when you consider the quality of the match and the fact that Davy is a drug-addicted, out of shape mess of a performer who had just done coke for 3 months previously.

His personality has put people off him, but he was immense, so good. Easily one of greatest in ring guys of all time for me.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I dont understand how any wrestling fan doesnt appreciate Brets work.

[Destor]

'97 - WWF is losing the war. Bret leaves for WCW

'98 - WWF because the leader of the ratings war

[Destor]

I appreciate him leaving :p

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Lol fuk u

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I prefer Brets work over Shawns. And anyways, Shawn gets injured and wwe starts winning the war too. Bret also did more to help make Austin than shitstick Michaels.

[Destor]

I really like watching bret work, legit. He's my kind of worker. I just would never book him for anything meaningful.

[Lock Jaw]

Being from Canada, I was 100% behind Bret Hart, and still hated Stone Cold Steve Austin and everything he represented long after Bret left the WWF.

[DaveWadding]

Bret Hart #1

[DaveWadding]

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IXD7Jm_6LVw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Theo Dious]

Biggest Mark for himself there is, was, and ever will be. Undeniably possessed superior skill. Just as undeniably possessed an ego the size of the moon.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I really like watching bret work, legit. He's my kind of worker. I just would never book him for anything meaningful.

Fans loved him. Bret was a star just an understated one. Probably best suited for his roll as utility world champ. You can talk shit but beating him meant something and he always made shit seem legit.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Biggest Mark for himself there is, was, and ever will be. Undeniably possessed superior skill. Just as undeniably possessed an ego the size of the moon.

No worse than Flair or hhh

[Destor]

No worse than Flair or hhh

Yes he is. Punk is hisbonly competition.

[Destor]

Fans loved him. Bret was a star just an understated one. Probably best suited for his roll as utility world champ. You can talk shit but beating him meant something and he always made shit seem legit.

Nah brets draw was so bad the company almost went under. Those who loved him REALLY loved him but there werent many of those.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Are you talking about end of 1996/early 1997?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Yes he is. Punk is hisbonly competition.

Nah.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I'll concede, much like Michaels I don't think Bret could be THE guy, but you put him in a role similar to Mick Foley or Chris Jericho, aka AROUND the top, doing meaningful shit, with title reigns thrown in the mix, he'd be perfect.

Also, Bret was never fully given the ball to run with, he was booked as a mid card champ and rarely as a focal point. So we'd never know if his draw was any good tbh.

[Destor]

I appreciate him leaving :p

I want to redact this. I wish WCW had won.

Fuck you Bret.

[Bad News Gertner]

He's pretty shit. Salty crybaby

[Shisen Kopf]

Lex Luger ruined the 1994 Royal Rumble. Bret should have won it outright. Lex Luger ruins everything. Including Miss Elizabeth

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

He's pretty shit. Salty crybaby

Way better than that shitty hick Republican, Bradshaw

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Bradshaw= Stan Hansen if Stan Hansen guzzled cum for a living.

[Malfeitor]

I don't see how anyone can deny his work in the ring.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

In fairness to Destor, he wasn't :p

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Minus Gertner, I think a lot of Bret love is from Canada. He represented a Canadian hero to a tee. I've talked to people from the UK and they loved him too. It's his workman like attitude that got over in those places, whereas the states loves the pageantry.

He was usually very well received at MSG tho.

[Shisen Kopf]

I'm USA #1 all the way but Bret was my fav when I was i kid. Loved when he turned heel in 1997.

[Shisen Kopf]

Bradshaw is an all around piece of shit. Shit in the ring. Shit on commentary. Shit at cutting promos. Only a shit would like him.

[#1-norm-fan]

I was a pretty big Bret fan until HBK turned face. Once it became a "one or the other" thing it was no contest. HBK was more exciting and well-rounded in the ring and as far as charisma, mic work and overall character, Bret was fucking miles behind.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I was a pretty big Bret fan until HBK turned face. Once it became a "one or the other" thing it was no contest. HBK was more exciting and well-rounded in the ring and as far as charisma, mic work and overall character, Bret was fucking miles behind.

Always liked Bret better. Love Shawn though (disregard previous posts in this thread about him lol)

[Bad News Gertner]

Bret is a good little opening match guy. Give ya a nice little 10 minutes match while the crowd are still getting their food and drinks

[Mr. Nerfect]

It's taken me a long time to really "get" Bret. I never watched during his hey-day, and I always heard he was, like, the most amazing wrestler ever. Then I went and watched him and he just didn't gel with me. I dunno. As I get more mature I will continue to go back and try to find that magic that allows me subjectively feel what I know to be objectively true in regards to Bret.

[Maluco]

I think Bret's charisma is understated. It was a silent type, for sure, but there was no denying the buzz when he came out, especially in markets like Canada, UK, rest of Europe etc... He was definitely charismatic, he just wasn't a showman like HBK.

HBK's style was more exciting and he was the better athlete, but I think Bret made it all look so real. He seemed able to construct matches from start to finish and he was always so smooth with his technique. I think him taking it so seriously added so much to his matches. The tension in his matches with Owen, Austin etc... felt real because he took it seriously and wanted people to believe.

I think nowadays one of the issues is they are winking at us. We know it isn't real, but we still want to believe. Bret worked hard to make that possible.

Always loved his look too, was the very essence of cool in the nineties.

[Rammsteinmad]

Was a huge, huge fan of his back in the day. Never got into the big guys like Hogan, was always a fan of Bret Hart and "Pegasus Kid" coz he wore a mask. However, watching highlight clips like the ones in this thread, Hart was still fairly clunky in the ring. His style always looked legit (especially his punches), but his prime was still before the days of lucha libre and the cruiserweight/high-flying style became so popular and common.

And obviously there's all the stuff that's gone down since his retirement that may have put people off of him. But yeah, still one of my childhood faves. :y:

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

clunky? oh boy.

[Rammsteinmad]

Dunno if that's the right term to use or not. Just seems a lot of moves he tried to pull off looked a bit of a struggle. For every solid move he did, there was an awkward looking roll-up or sunset flip.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think Hart was just trying to make it look real.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Hart was definitely charismatic by the way.

[Evil Vito]

It's taken me a long time to really "get" Bret. I never watched during his hey-day, and I always heard he was, like, the most amazing wrestler ever. Then I went and watched him and he just didn't gel with me. I dunno. As I get more mature I will continue to go back and try to find that magic that allows me subjectively feel what I know to be objectively true in regards to Bret.

I'm in pretty much in the same boat. Bret just never interested me even though I feel like he should. It's not that I think he sucks or anything......I'm well aware of the fact that he's technically excellent. He just doesn't capture my imagination for whatever reason. And back in the day, saying you weren't a huge Bret fan made everyone go all "LOL how can you say you like technical wrestling if you don't like Bret?"

If I were to make a musical comparison.....when I say I was never a big Beatles fan everyone acts like it's the worst thing ever said and that it automatically invalidates your opinions. "But they influenced all music! You must like SOMETHING from them!" And yeah, I do.....just as I like several Bret matches, I like several Beatles song. Again, it's not that I think they suck. I respect their accomplishments. It just doesn't do anything for me.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Dunno if that's the right term to use or not. Just seems a lot of moves he tried to pull off looked a bit of a struggle. For every solid move he did, there was an awkward looking roll-up or sunset flip.

Nah i thought about it and i see what you mean. I think it just added to his stuff. You were never going to see him do a dropkick, thats for sure.

3 fave things that he did better than anyone.

1) backbreaker
2) double elbow off 2nd rope
3) chest first turnbuckle bump

[Maluco]

Add to that the whole struggle and twists and turns to get into sharpshooter. He made it a great finish and a really exciting part of matches he was in.

It wasn't just put it on and crawl to ropes. There was lots of scrapping and fighting and he always sinched it in so well

[A.J.K]

Was a huge, huge fan of his back in the day. Never got into the big guys like Hogan, was always a fan of Bret Hart and "Pegasus Kid" coz he wore a mask. However, watching highlight clips like the ones in this thread, Hart was still fairly clunky in the ring. His style always looked legit (especially his punches), but his prime was still before the days of lucha libre and the cruiserweight/high-flying style became so popular and common.

And obviously there's all the stuff that's gone down since his retirement that may have put people off of him. But yeah, still one of my childhood faves. :y:

Wouldn't want to get into a slugfest with him that's for damn sure. Between Hart, Hall and Angle for best looking punches in Wrestling.

[Destor]

Wouldn't want to get into a slugfest with him that's for damn sure. Between Hart, Hall and Angle for best looking punches in Wrestling.
Outside of Hall this list is awful

[Fignuts]

Watching great balls of fire, and thought Matt Hardys punches looked really good.

[Destor]

Watching great balls of fire, and thought Matt Hardys punches looked really good.His haymaker has always been good

[KIRA]

It's taken me a long time to really "get" Bret. I never watched during his hey-day, and I always heard he was, like, the most amazing wrestler ever. Then I went and watched him and he just didn't gel with me. I dunno. As I get more mature I will continue to go back and try to find that magic that allows me subjectively feel what I know to be objectively true in regards to Bret.

I still don't "get" Bret either (at least as a face)I mean I get that he's a really really good wrestler but that's it. I dug him as a heel though.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I still don't "get" Bret either (at least as a face)I mean I get that he's a really really good wrestler but that's it. I dug him as a heel though.

To us hitman marks he was the ultimate good guy. Particularly how he worked matches. Sympathetic selling with brilliant facials. Always made it seem like he was fighting hard,. when he was outmatched he would think of something crafty but not dirty to keep him in the match. Great fire in his come backs.

His promos as a face werent his strong suit but he would come out with a cracker here and there and his in ring work was better than when he was a heel.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Not to argue with you Kira. Its all down to taste and what connects with you. Just for the sake of convo.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

A shining night for Bret was kotr 1993. 3 matches with 3 very different opponents ranging from good to excellent. He had to win each match without using the sharpshooter as per the bookers instructions.

He carried different injuries from each match selling them to perfection a la the perfect babyface.

[The MAC]

His match with 123 kid shows just how unselfish he was in the ring. It wasnt about Bret Hart, he made it about the kid who just might be able to catch one on the champion.

At wm13 he just about made Austin. This match had more significance than Austin winning the title the next year from HBK. Even Austin says that this is THE match he watches back.

His match with Nash at survivor series 95 is an absolute classic where props such as the mic cable, the turnbuckle cover and the announce table were used in ways that enriched the story, rather than just for the sake of it.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Nash match is a personal favourite. the other 2 also fucking rule.

I think my #1 and #2 are WM13 and his match w/Owen at WM10.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm in pretty much in the same boat. Bret just never interested me even though I feel like he should. It's not that I think he sucks or anything......I'm well aware of the fact that he's technically excellent. He just doesn't capture my imagination for whatever reason. And back in the day, saying you weren't a huge Bret fan made everyone go all "LOL how can you say you like technical wrestling if you don't like Bret?"

If I were to make a musical comparison.....when I say I was never a big Beatles fan everyone acts like it's the worst thing ever said and that it automatically invalidates your opinions. "But they influenced all music! You must like SOMETHING from them!" And yeah, I do.....just as I like several Bret matches, I like several Beatles song. Again, it's not that I think they suck. I respect their accomplishments. It just doesn't do anything for me.

I actually really like the Beatles comparison. It kind of matches up with my experience of Bret.

The WrestleMania 13 match is often called the greatest match in company history when it comes to the WWF/E. I completely get that. It's the "correct answer" to the question, like when people ask what the greatest film of all-time is: it's Citizen Kane. Even if you don't particularly love the film, that's just the stock answer to that question. I'm not arguing with it being the greatest match in company history when I say this:

I've never particularly got into the match. I tried to watch it as a young smark, and it just never gelled with me. I went back and tried to watch it recently, and maybe it was my mind frame at the time, but I just couldn't invest. It's not the same as watching it at the time and watching Austin really emerge. I get that. Maybe it's because I know the story of how Austin ended up, I can't go back and get the same thrills out of it, because I already feel like I am watching a massive star? I also find crowd brawling to be pretty shit. Austin and Hart probably did it better than just about anyone ever, but years of shitty crowd brawling after that probably taints it retrospectively for me.

Again, I'm not knocking the match, but I've just never been able to really love it like it probably deserves to be loved. I respect it as a document more than anything.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Nash match is a personal favourite. the other 2 also fucking rule.

I think my #1 and #2 are WM13 and his match w/Owen at WM10.

I fucking LOVE Bret vs. Owen. For all I've said about not getting Bret as much as others, I do fucking love this match so much. I remember where I was when I first watched it. Honestly, at the time, because Bret didn't capture my imagination that much, I actually credited Owen for more of it than I should have, haha. But yeah, this is a tremendous match.

[Evil Vito]

Maybe it's because I know the story of how Austin ended up, I can't go back and get the same thrills out of it, because I already feel like I am watching a massive star?

This is actually an interesting dynamic I've noticed in the Network Era - everybody uses the Network for different reasons but when it first came out it was generally agreed upon that the back catalog was a huge selling point for a lot of people. On this very board even you had a lot of people pledging to re-watch everything from their childhood and stuff.

Three years in though and I think more people than not are having a tough time getting invested because they know the end game for the characters, and the result of the match itself. Add that to the sheer time commitment of trying to do a proper "re-watch" and I think you have a lot of people who are mostly just using the Network for new content.

Personally, it never bothered me knowing the end game...but I can see why it would. When I have time to work on my original brand split re-watch (finally almost into 2003), I'm enjoying the shit out of the great wrestling on SmackDown. Others might be too distracted knowing that all these years later Edge is retired, Mysterio is broken down, and Eddie and Benoit are dead.

[Destor]

I personally use it for JUST old content.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I'd buy the network if it wasn't for Canada being awful for wrestling. And I would only use it for old content. I don't watch very much current stuff, other than 6 star Japanese Match De Jour, IMO older wrestling is better and more authentic. Even the shitty, cheesier stuff was better.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I had the Network for old stuff and the NXT Takeovers, but I just couldn't keep supporting a company that doesn't give a shit. If they don't feel financial hits, then why would they change? So I pulled out. I also went a long time without making the time to watch anything, so it's not like I was actively using it all the time anyway.

With the Takeover shows -- while I do generally like them and find the presentation to be more to my taste, I know what the end-game is for NXT talent: main roster WWE. I know enough now to know that anyone I genuinely start to believe in is just going to be ruined up there; reduced to the broad strokes of the journey I've witnessed, and just placed there to be stoic through time until we get to the point where they are randomly given a World Title.

Without it being its own world, I cannot really stay invested in NXT. Plus, I find that it's more of the same. The tropes and patterns are starting to become more and more apparent, and I think the "love affair" with it is over for me.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Just rewatching bret v diesel from survivor series 95. Diesel fucking murders him for the first 10 minutes of the match, which is no holds barred... favouring the big man, Bret out matched, fighting off a jackknife attempt hooks a leg, after a struggle, Bret BITES Diesel, turns the tide. Crowd pops big time.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

then starts raking the fuck out of Diesel's eyes. all making sense because of the no dq stip and Hart being the underdog. He's outmatched but he's crafty, it was the best way to make sense of Bret getting any advantage when stylistically he should get murdered. #Kayfabe

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

then uses those salty tactics to give him space to go to work on the knee, slowing down the big man.

[Vastardikai]

Bret would break the rules against hosses back in the day, as well. Especially when in a bear hug, he'd have no qualms against a desperation eye gouge. Even funnier, against the Warlord, he would polish the top of his head before biting him.