Emma: The Thread

[Anybody Thrilla]

Shut the fuck up. I hate you guys.

Alright, cya later. No comments necessary.

[Anybody Thrilla]

It's not like they told Emma "go out there and make Asuka look great" and she was like "Nah, Emmamite sandwich".

[Destor]

:lol:

[Destor]

for real tho she has personal responsibility. As enhancement your job is clear: Get the other guy over. She didnt do that. So if im the employer and I cant get her over and she cant get other poeple over I dont really have anyuse for her.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Who says she was enhancement? They had been giving her a mini-push leading into the match and then they put her on PPV. PPV isn't for enhancement matches, is it?

[Anybody Thrilla]

I highly doubt it was her call to go in and have a competitive match with Asuka. Couldn't see her having that sort of pull. Asuka was giving her traction, too. She didn't have to do that.

[Destor]

Who says she was enhancement? They had been giving her a mini-push leading into the match and then they put her on PPV. PPV isn't for enhancement matches, is it?
THat push only existed for the benifit of asuka; and yes ppvs have always been a place to debut poeple against enhancement guys. It was fairly common for a long time. "buy the ppv to watc the debut of blah blah"


and then theyd just get shined up for 10 min and go home

[Destor]

I highly doubt it was her call to go in and have a competitive match with Asuka. Couldn't see her having that sort of pull. Asuka was giving her traction, too. She didn't have to do that.
Once the bell rings the heel calls the match, no one in the back can do much about it. Only thing Asuka can do is start shooting on her...

[Anybody Thrilla]

I think there's more to this than you want to believe, but it's honestly anyone's guess. Unless you were there or something. Were you there or something?

[Anybody Thrilla]

They just got her a new theme song and everything.

[Evil Vito]

I would love to experience the Taste of Tenille

[Anybody Thrilla]

I think somebody made a "possibly" bad booking decision in regards to Asuka's debut, got some heat for it, lashed out and blamed it on Emma, and...

...and who gives a fuck. Check this out:

http://i.imgur.com/feHtKtY.gif

[Anybody Thrilla]

Now the chick from last night, SHE was enhancement. No entrance. No theme. No promo. No reason but to get beat the fuck up. That wasn't what Emma was there for.

[Lock Jaw]

Emma was good. No matter what Destor says.

[Destor]

Now the chick from last night, SHE was enhancement. No entrance. No theme. No promo. No reason but to get beat the fuck up. That wasn't what Emma was there for.I think you're confusing enhancement with jobber

[Anybody Thrilla]

Because what you're saying she was supposed to be doing was be a jobber.

[Destor]

no, her job was to shine the girl up. Its totally not the same and being squashed.

[Destor]

Match I saw Emma was tyring to get her shit in.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Wait is that why theyre saying she got fired?

[Destor]

indeed

[Evil Vito]

I would love for Emma to shine me up

[XL]

The match went 9 minutes. Are we suggesting that Asuka was suppposed to squash her for 9 minutes? Or that Emma took the match long?

[Destor]

The match went 9 minutes. Are we suggesting that Asuka was suppposed to squash her for 9 minutes? Or that Emma took the match long?
There has been no suggestion that should have squashed emma by me if thats what you're implying

[Anybody Thrilla]

Was she suppose to "get shined on" for nine minutes?

[Anybody Thrilla]

There must have been some "suggestion" if we all thought that's what you meant, ya know?

[Destor]

Yeah all the spots should have served asukas benefit. You guys have seen a hundred matches that do this...its not a radical thing. People have made careers out of it. You can frame a hope spot that even after the cutt off still does business for the other guy.

[Anybody Thrilla]

As someone who has only been directly involved in ONE wrestling match, I have to say...

...huh?

[Anybody Thrilla]

I mean, I think I get what you're saying, but I can't tell which one is "the other guy" there. Asuka?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I get exactly whay Des is saying. The match was decent but made Asuka look very human which is stupid right out the gate.

[Destor]

I mean, I think I get what you're saying, but I can't tell which one is "the other guy" there. Asuka?
Well whoever is the person you're trying to get over. In this case asuka

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Could have been competitve but with Asuka displaying superiority in every facet. 1 step ahead even though Emma was game. Instead Asuka seemed like a plucky young underdog fighting from underneath.

Did the same thing with Nak vs Ziggler and imo he hasnt found his stride since.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

The thing ia Asuka is billed as different. Yet the match vs Emma may as well have been Sheamus vs The Miz

[Anybody Thrilla]

I get exactly whay Des is saying. The match was decent but made Asuka look very human which is stupid right out the gate.

Yeah, I understand all of that, but I still don't think it's Emma's fault. Somebody in the back structured that match. Probably Bayley's punk ass.

Actually, that was a Bayley match, the more I think about it.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Maybe she didnt execute the way they intended?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Could have been competitve but with Asuka displaying superiority in every facet. 1 step ahead even though Emma was game. Instead Asuka seemed like a plucky young underdog fighting from underneath.

Did the same thing with Nak vs Ziggler and imo he hasnt found his stride since.

And no one seemed to be upset with Ziggler over it.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Maybe she didnt execute the way they intended?

So they did the same thing the next night?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

They coulda also let Emma call it in the ring and thats how she decided to call it and Asuka may have been playing nice with it being her first 2 matches on the main roster. Who knows.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Doesn't add up to me. I definitely understand what Destor is saying, but I really don't think this falls on Emma, and if it's really the reason she was released, it's fucking bullshit.

[Anybody Thrilla]

They coulda also let Emma call it in the ring and thats how she decided to call it and Asuka may have been playing nice with it being her first 2 matches on the main roster. Who knows.

Exactly. Who knows that I'm not right either.

What I do know is that Emma has been awesome for a while now.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I am just goinf off these apparent rumours i havent heard til this thread. The whole Asuka thing is just weird. May as well have squashed her with how much offence she got then shitcanned.

[Anybody Thrilla]

THAT'S WHY I THINK THERE'S MORE TO IT

[Ruien]

Highly doubt Emma went out there and created the match without getting approval.

[Anybody Thrilla]

As do I.

[Destor]

No ever wants to hold workers accountable when they fail to get over.

[Anybody Thrilla]

"Alright! The moment we've all been waiting for! The main roster debut of legend-in-the-making, Asuka! EMMA! What do you think we should do?"

[Destor]

Highly doubt Emma went out there and created the match without getting approval.

Workers aren't robots. It isn't scripted the way you seem to think it is

[Anybody Thrilla]

No ever wants to hold workers accountable when they fail to get over.

That's not true. I just don't think it's Emma's fault in this case.

[Anybody Thrilla]

ONLY MILDLY-RELATED MUSING:

As a wrestler, am I a shit fan for really enjoying the TLC match between Asuka and Emma?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Workers aren't robots.

http://www.therobotspajamas.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/triple-h-terminator-wrestlemania-31-e1427817920984.png

DOES NOT COMPUTE

[Destor]

You guys dont think that matches are choreographed by a 3rd party do you? That isnt the case.

The agent asigned to your match with give you your finish and probably a heat spot. Sometimes they will give you a story structure if they have specifics they you to get in for plot purposes. They might micromanage a bit more if youre awful or super green but they think they can get you over.

But if you can work they just let you work. You know the big notes. You know what not to do (IE theyre working the leg in the main or whatever so lay off the leg on the undercard) You know your time. Get it over.

Some guys call their shit in the back some guys walk and talk. Others do a bit of both. But its your match. Finley isnt sitting there telling girls to follow a script step by step...

Never actually thought about what the perception of how it all comes together is...85% is improve sans spot monkies...fyi.

[Destor]

Emma...was nice to look at...but she could not put a match together...at all

[Anybody Thrilla]

Breaking Ground told me there's a third party, but that would lend to your goose shit point.

The match was over with ME. Do I not count as a person?

[Anybody Thrilla]

This match was pretty good:

http://i.imgur.com/feHtKtY.gif

[Destor]

Course you do. Youll just need a lot of money to make keeping her worth it lol

[Destor]

She had some clear assets

[Anybody Thrilla]

Course you do. Youll just need a lot of money to make keeping her worth it lol

They only charge ten bucks a month.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I don't know if they had Emma t-shirts or anything. Can I buy a pair of little half gloves?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Why wasn't Emma to the Australian market what Jinder Mahal is to the Indian market?

[Destor]

They shoulda sold them, merch is merch

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

What do you think woulda happened where the fault could be placed on Emma, Des? Just curious. Think as the heell she was calling the match?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Versus holding Asuka accountable.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Hold up. I may have an unhealthy love for Emma, but NONE of this was Asuka's fault. EVER.

[Anybody Thrilla]

This all falls on Bayley. I'm sure of it.

[Emperor Smeat]

Why wasn't Emma to the Australian market what Jinder Mahal is to the Indian market?

Either its not a strong market for the WWE and/or doesn't have the same untapped potential like with India and China because of its huge populations.

Think only very recently a renaissance of sorts is happening there with wrestling like with the UK scene.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Hey man i dig Asuka but was just curious. If it falls on the way the match was laid out and a wrestler is being held accountable... How come one employee is and the other isnt if both didnt execute

[Anybody Thrilla]

Either its not a strong market for the WWE and/or doesn't have the same untapped potential like with India and China because of its huge populations.

Think only very recently a renaissance of sorts is happening there with wrestling like with the UK scene.

Well they're lucky I really like Billie Kay and Peyton Royce.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Awwww, Emma could have been in a stable with them. :(

[Anybody Thrilla]

We never had these issues when Dawn Marie and Torrie were scissoring on top of Al Wilson's corpse. Women's revolution my ass. They're being set back even further if they're trying to hold Emma accountable on some BULLSHIT. :shifty:

[Destor]

What do you think woulda happened where the fault could be placed on Emma, Des? Just curious. Think as the heell she was calling the match?

Yeah the heel and the refs ear piece are in control. Only time the ref will chime in is if its time to go home or the office sees something and calls an audible. Rare though.

The heel is putting the match together in the ring though baring some huge gap in experience. Its not easy calling the match from the top though; the heel is in a dominant position for most the match so its best left to the heel. (And someone has to lead, its a dance after all.)

So when emma goes out there and does a heat thats built around rest holds inside a 9 min match on ppv in a match where youre getting the next 6 months of tv over is your prime directive...? Yeah thats because emma isnt good at her job.

She isnt good enough to work heel, thats the real mistake but she isnt over enough to breakthrough the babies either...nxt jobber diva? I dunno. I started watching nxt and everyone told she would get better later...she never did.

[Destor]

Asuka could have only saved the match if she went into business for herself and got her shit in the hard way...and in retrospect she should have

[Anybody Thrilla]

Ohhhhh... that's where the hard way term comes from!

[Anybody Thrilla]

So who was the heel in AJ v. Finn on the same night?

[XL]

I’d guess AJ as he’s the vet. I’d have to watch again to know for sure.

[Destor]

Baby on baby so no heel. But AJ led that night. Finn took the heat and had a full come back. AJ might have taken a short heat early on but i cant remember. Id have to rewatch it...good match though. AJs stuff might be spotty but its all put together really well.

[Ruien]

Workers aren't robots. It isn't scripted the way you seem to think it is

I think it goes

Creative Guy: Asuka goes over really hard. Emma, you barely get any offense in. Go.

And then Emma goes out there and barely gets and offense in.

But thast didn't happen so I am guessing she was told to get offense in.

[Destor]

Lol

[Ruien]

Hater.

[Ruien]

Honestly, don't care how it goes. Emma is not in a position to call the entire match. There were guidelines. And I am sure there is a specific way they want to build Asuka.

[Destor]

We can agree she should never call a match

[Lock Jaw]

I agree that I enjoyed the match, enjoyed Emma in the ring, think that you are wrong about a lot of things regarding her, and that I call BS on the rumours saying how her matches with Asuka went had anything to do with her release.

[Emperor Smeat]

Did some searching about the rumors for Emma's release and nothing about it was reported from the usual sheet sources nor anything about her matches with Asuka being the reasoning for her departure.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Did some searching about the rumors for Emma's release and nothing about it was reported from the usual sheet sources nor anything about her matches with Asuka being the reasoning for her departure.

Yeah... was wondering where e'ryone was getting this from.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Destor said it somewhere, and I believed him, because I love him.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

#FakeNews Destor?

[Fignuts]

When I saw the match, Asuka's offense felt beastly, and Emma's felt desperate. I think people are blowing all this out of proportion.

[Lock Jaw]

And a special Farewell Emma Taco Tuesday set:

https://i.imgur.com/XSaBtTz.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/XkJfiiT.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/NCbjPUg.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/nnGZ01e.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/YQqHloF.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/eeuaLgU.jpg

https://i.redd.it/2qyusq86ssuz.jpg

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

If Emma did that "terrible" a job why'd they have a rematch the next night? There's no way.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If Emma did that "terrible" a job why'd they have a rematch the next night? There's no way.

One more chance. Have Asuka go over again on the way out.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm with Destor on this.

Emma's been fired before. Her 2014 comedy run didn't work, so they turned her heel. that was fun because Emma is nice to look at in NXT, but it meant nothing on the main roster. They fired her and brought her back because she was liked backstage. Then they tried Emmalina, which I admit I thought was going to make her a relative star for them, but she couldn't pull that off. Then she whinged about not getting any chances. I thought she might have been done then. They gave her a chance, she does alright, until it's time for her to get someone over, and she can't do it.

That's the job of a heel. Al Snow says it's their one job, but wrestling has broken down and become something a lot less focused than that. But that's what those matches were definitely for. How anyone can argue against that is beyond me. Asuka is making her debut, Emma is there to make her look good.

What is undeniable is that Asuka was less over coming out of these matches than she was going in. You can't tell me those matches got a fever pitch where the crowd was going ape-shit for Asuka finallly beating Emma. There may have been a smattering of applause or whatever, but her biggest pop was on entry because of who she was. Emma made her look worse. By the definition of what a heel worker is supposed to do, she didn't do her job. This is where you can fork, because the question is whether or not this is her fault.

On one hand, I want to lean with Destor. I don't think things are blocked out as exactly as people think they are. I really doubt an agent would have told Asuka to do the Ankle Lock, for example. I don't think Emma would have gone long or anything, but I think the particulars would have been largely up to them. And it didn't work. Twice.

The other side of this is that Emma may not have had as much freedom as we're saying, in which case, she probably should have pushed for a smarter match. She has not been booked well, so the very idea of her going six minutes with Asuka becomes a challenge. There's only so much cache you can have when you've been a joke for so long. But the company has clearly never had plans to use her seriously.

At the very least, I think Emma is at least guilty of not really having the mind to know what she was going to do was going to be suicide. It reminds me of when Bayley cut that promo that the crowd was begging her to stop, and she just kept going. Call it "doing your job" all you want, I think as a performer, an artist, a worker -- or however you want to look at it -- you've got to have good instincts, and Emma displayed that in the ring she just doesn't have them.

If she is responsible for leading those matches, then she's probably not a very good worker, and if the only role you have for her is making other people look good, and she can't do that, then what use is she? It'd be nice if everybody could be the top star in the women's division, but you've only got so many places. Emma is not shooting to the top of their list, so she had to be good in the Val Venis role. Except she wasn't.

Maybe she would have been better off staying in NXT (not that this is the purpose of NXT), or staying babyface, because then other people can make her look good. Maybe she should have been booked better if they want her to be the sort of main roster enhancement girl they want her to be. I keep going to say that it would be tough, but I really don't think it would be if she knew how to work a bit better. If she did the exact match they told her to do, then it is a bit more problematic, because it was doomed to fail in the first place, but then again, Emma was doomed to fail in the first place too.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I feel the need to state that I do subjectively love Emma. I got into her NXT run and I kind of like her style in the ring. She borrows a lot from puroresu and yeah, it's a bit fun. But I completely understand why the WWE cut her. It's been a long time coming.

Alicia Fox, as much as I don't care for the act, with all her screaming and theatrics, would have gotten Asuka over a lot more than Emma did. Think about that -- Alicia Fox is better at her job than Emma.

[Mr. Nerfect]

And, for the record, yes, Dolph did exactly the same shit with Nakamura, and it is as infuriating. He's also killing Bobby Roode on SmackDown. So I wouldn't be surprised if Dolph's name ends up in the release pool either.

[Lock Jaw]

You and me are done professionally! :mad:

[Sepholio]

Don't like the comparison of Dolph and Emma. Dolph has been over before and been at the top of the card. Emma never was.

You can play Dolph as strong and have a more competitive match and still have someone else get the shine for beating him. You can't really say that with Emma; it looked like Asuka was almost struggling with the dregs (that's what Emma is in reality because of booking or whatever) of the womens division. Asuka should have squashed her.

If anything that match made Emma look better and Asuka look like she has been overhyped. There is no way in hell that was the goal. I don't know whos fault that is though, but we can pretty much guarantee it wasn't Asuka. So that leaves either Emma or the agent setting up that match.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I agree with you on the specifics about Dolph, but he's fucking dead in the water, man. He hasn't meant anything in so long. It's a different way to get to nothing, but he's still nothing. And the result is exactly the same -- anyone who wrestles him comes out looking worse; not better. Especially as a heel, his job is to make sure that Nakamura and Roode get more over and that people are more excited to see them than less, but he did absolutely nothing for Naks (actually cooled him) and I couldn't give a fuck about Roode vs. Ziggler. Maybe Roode is super-over now? I'm happy to hear about how piping hot those matches were.

Intellectually, you might be able to head canon Dolph into meaning something more than Emma does, but no one really gives a flying fuck about him.

[Sepholio]

Can't really argue with that.

I am admittedly a mark for Dolph so I know my perception of him is skewed.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh, man, I used to be right with you there on Dolph. He's got his flaws, but the company have fucked him up too. Now he's in that tight spot where he's got to somehow give capital to people without having much himself.

[Sepholio]

He could have been HUGE.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Probably not mainstream huge, but bigger than he is.

The guy has never had a one-on-one match at WrestleMania.

[Sepholio]

That's almost criminal.

[Ruien]

Why do people (like Noid) keep saying Emma could not pull off Emmilina? That shit was done before Emma was even brought to play the gimmick.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Why do people (like Noid) keep saying Emma could not pull off Emmilina? That shit was done before Emma was even brought to play the gimmick.

That's why they canned it. They tested Emma out in the role and it sucked, apparently. I don't know why they ran the gimmick without testing it out first, but they did, and I can only assume it was a black mark against her name.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I am inclined to go with Dessy's inside scoop. Think Emma didnt shine Asuka the way she should have. They gave her another chance on Raw, she got all of her shit in again and got canned. My #FanTheory is that it was her last chance to show that she could offer value as a solid lower tier hand to give hot commodities some shine and she blew it.

Could be completely off base but I think that is how the stars line up.

[Big Vic]

Road Dogg: "You got nine minutes"

Emma: How am I going to make this match 9 minutes....

*Later*

Vince: "HHH, I thought this Asuka was supposed to be a big thing?"

*Much Later*

HHH: "Emma, your fired"

[Ruien]

That's why they canned it. They tested Emma out in the role and it sucked, apparently. I don't know why they ran the gimmick without testing it out first, but they did, and I can only assume it was a black mark against her name.

They tested it with pictures. On her debut of the gimmick Emma said she would not be doing it anymore.

[Evil Vito]

Emmalina's gimmick was little more than "she's really hot" and not much else. That worked for Eva Marie because it provided a workaround for her genuine lack of wrestling ability. The gimmick boiled down to "terrible wrestler getting pushed because she's hot" and she was generating heat. She was the best heel in the company for a time because of that gimmick.

Emmalina couldn't have worked because we already saw her as Emma, know she can wrestle, and have seen her put on decent matches. The gimmick was doomed from that respect. It worked with Eva because we'd never seen her be a good in-ring performer previously.

[Fignuts]

I am inclined to go with Dessy's inside scoop. Think Emma didnt shine Asuka the way she should have. They gave her another chance on Raw, she got all of her shit in again and got canned. My #FanTheory is that it was her last chance to show that she could offer value as a solid lower tier hand to give hot commodities some shine and she blew it.

Could be completely off base but I think that is how the stars line up.

She doesn't seem like the type that aspires to be a "solid low tier hand".

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Understandable. But sewerfucking Asuka when theyre relying on you shining her up is pretty shitty. (hypothetically of course)

[Anybody Thrilla]

Oh, man, I used to be right with you there on Dolph. He's got his flaws, but the company have fucked him up too. Now he's in that tight spot where he's got to somehow give capital to people without having much himself.

Could you not say the very same thing for Emma?

Also, can two people not get over in the same match? Asuka could have done more when she WAS given the shine, and Emma's back was essentially against the wall regardless. I know that may make her sound selfish in a sense, but how do you jostle someone around for 9 minutes without sustaining an advantage? She couldn't put Asuka away. That's the real shine.

I feel like the average viewer is not sitting there giving a fuck about either of the Asuka/Emma matches. That's left for nerds like us. And of the main Emma naysayers on this discussion, I might be the only one who watches everything regularly.

I don't think her popularity has waned because of Emma specifically. It's because of WWE doing it's usual ridiculous thing of...missing the fucking point.

Not Emma's fault. People have been far less fired for far more objectionable things. No fucking way it was those matches. She got hosed...unless there was something else...which I'm completely open to...but who's to say?

Emma is not a bad worker.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Understandable. But sewerfucking Asuka when theyre relying on you shining her up is pretty shitty. (hypothetically of course)

Asuka really didn't suffer from that match at all. The people that already know her love her, but they really could have given her a more special debut if they REALLY meant it.

Vince probably hate Asuka, the more I think about it.

[Fignuts]

I guess I just prefer the NJPW method where youhave workers who are definitely booked stronger, but everyone is booked strong enough where there is always an "any given sunday" approach with undercard wrestlers. As a result, the division as a whole is stronger.

Squashes should be for local enhancement talent, not someone like Emma. And having watched the match again, I still stand by my claim that Asuka looked stronger. She's never been about squashes in the first place. Everyone gets their shit in when they face her. What makes her dominant is that she always wins regardless, and HER shit looks a lot mor brutal. I thought Emma did a good job selling that. Every shot she took looked like it killed her.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I agree 100% with Fignuts.

In any professional sport, any team should literally have a chance to beat any team on any given Sunday, or whatever. Wrestling is ridiculous enough in theory. No need to make things so glaringly obvious. Especially on a PPV.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Emma isn't fucking Reno fucking Riggins, either.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Asuka really didn't suffer from that match at all. The people that already know her love her, but they really could have given her a more special debut if they REALLY meant it.

Vince probably hate Asuka, the more I think about it.

I think she suffered.

[Anybody Thrilla]

But is it Emma's fault? I'm still thinking not. Just strange booking.

[Anybody Thrilla]

On Emma previously being fired:

Jinder Mahal
Drew McIntyre
Daniel Bryan
So what?

[Fignuts]

I would rather they book Asuka as strong, but vulnerable, because I am 100% certain that if they wrote her as goldberg style dominant, they would write themselves into a corner and the end result would hurt her in the long run even more than people think this match with emma did.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Roman Reigns

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

But is it Emma's fault? I'm still thinking not. Just strange booking.

Look obviously if thats the match she was told to do 100% down the line then it is not her fault. But if what dessy said is what happened then it isnt

I am inclined to at least take what he says at face value given his experience as a wrassler.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Figgy, while i think a straight up assfucking of Emma would have started Asuka with a bang I am not saying that is what had to go down. The problem was Asuka didnt get to shine. She seemed average. It may as well have been Steve Lombardi going over Renee Goulet on prime time.

Instead of Emma being elevated to Asuka's perceived level of badassery (which wasnt even the point of the match but would be the only positive of being so competitive with a bottom feeder) Asuka was brought down to seeming equal with Emma. It was a good match but I think they didnt execute in the way they should have. Though Emmas shit looked good.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It just required subtle nuance. To me it was like 60\40 Emma. And she kept fucking countering everything Asuka did. She didnt need to die but there were points where she was just beating Asukas ass lol

[Simple Fan]

If they were going 9 minutes the smart thing to do to start the match would have been to have Emma attack her before the bell and a couple of spots outside the ring. Once they got in the ring and the match started Emma could have gotten in some of her offense before Asuka hulked up beat the shit out of her. I didn't watch the match but seen the match on Raw which seems to have been the same match.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They tested it with pictures. On her debut of the gimmick Emma said she would not be doing it anymore.

Nah, they got her to do a promo in the gimmick or something and everyone shuddered and moved on. It was her big chance for a push she couldn't pull it off.

Emmalina's gimmick was little more than "she's really hot" and not much else. That worked for Eva Marie because it provided a workaround for her genuine lack of wrestling ability. The gimmick boiled down to "terrible wrestler getting pushed because she's hot" and she was generating heat. She was the best heel in the company for a time because of that gimmick.

Emmalina couldn't have worked because we already saw her as Emma, know she can wrestle, and have seen her put on decent matches. The gimmick was doomed from that respect. It worked with Eva because we'd never seen her be a good in-ring performer previously.

I don't think that was supposed to be the gimmick. I think the idea was more that she was a throwback to the Sunny days, and this would rub the "progressive" women the wrong way. It was a Diva gimmick, but it wasn't supposed to be a non-wrestling one.

She doesn't seem like the type that aspires to be a "solid low tier hand".

Good for her. That's all they had though.

Asuka really didn't suffer from that match at all. The people that already know her love her, but they really could have given her a more special debut if they REALLY meant it.

Vince probably hate Asuka, the more I think about it.

Vince must hate Asuka so much that this was the straw that broke the camel's back and Asuka got a squash the next week. Yep. Vince hates Asuka.

And yes, Asuka did suffer. She went into those matches super-over, she came out with the fans less interested in her act. That is the exact opposite of what pro-wrestling is supposed to achieve.

I guess I just prefer the NJPW method where youhave workers who are definitely booked stronger, but everyone is booked strong enough where there is always an "any given sunday" approach with undercard wrestlers. As a result, the division as a whole is stronger.

Squashes should be for local enhancement talent, not someone like Emma. And having watched the match again, I still stand by my claim that Asuka looked stronger. She's never been about squashes in the first place. Everyone gets their shit in when they face her. What makes her dominant is that she always wins regardless, and HER shit looks a lot mor brutal. I thought Emma did a good job selling that. Every shot she took looked like it killed her.

But they did that match and it didn't work. The crowd could give two shits. Maybe that does work in New Japan, but when Emma and Asuka did it, Asuka went under. "This should work, that should work," it didn't. They did it that way and it didn't. It's really that simple.

As far as the booking goes, you could argue that Emma should be booked stronger if they are going to get her to go out there and do that match, but how? Who do you put her over? Bayley? Then people will complain that Bayley isn't booked strong enough. Sasha Banks? Yeah, see how well that sits with people. This a problem with women's wrestling in the WWE.

That being said, it's not impossible for talent to be competitive despite a shitty win-loss record. A good worker can do this. They can put shine on the babyface and actually get a crowd into that shit. If it calls for them to show a lot more ass than Emma did, so be it, but they can also do it by giving a lot less. The truth is that Emma is just not that good at her job. If she were a good worker, then people would have bought the work. They gave her two consecutive chances and she blew both of them.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Behind this conversation is an argument about how modern matches are constructed. Every match has to be the same. Everybody needs to get their shit in. If you're the antagonist, you beat up the protagonist for a majority of the match, regardless of whether they are twice your size or half it. If you're in a match longer than 10 minutes, you've got to kick out of each other's finishing moves.

The approach to every match being almost identical is a big part of why wrestling is cold, in my opinion. No one thinks "Hey, how can we actually get this shit over?" Everyone just does the same "good match." If every match is a "good match," then how is any match going to stand out?

[Mr. Nerfect]

In Emma's defense: She's far from the only or worse offender with this. But god is the in-ring fucking boring right now. Go and watch wrestling from before all this artistic combat nonsense. Sure, the matches weren't as long and they weren't as "good," but they contrasted well against the stuff that was good, they seemed organic, and real talent stood out. Shows were more lively and had a sense of urgency. You could buy a finish coming out of nowhere, because sometimes they would.

Fignuts and AT were talking about anyone being able to beat anyone on any given night. Well, they do in WWE at the moment. That's what the 50/50 booking gripes are about. But it also meant something because in addition to those wins, there would be a story behind them. Someone would dominate, or someone would be dominated, and each match could tell a different story. Some were worse, but some were better.

Now EVERY match, except for ones that Braun Strowman is in (funny that he's the most over full-time guy they've got), is the fucking same. The story is the same. The inference from fans in the same. How many times can you hear the same story before you are sick of it?

[Ruien]

Nah, they got her to do a promo in the gimmick or something and everyone shuddered and moved on. It was her big chance for a push she couldn't pull it off.



I don't think that was supposed to be the gimmick. I think the idea was more that she was a throwback to the Sunny days, and this would rub the "progressive" women the wrong way. It was a Diva gimmick, but it wasn't supposed to be a non-wrestling one.



Good for her. That's all they had though.



Vince must hate Asuka so much that this was the straw that broke the camel's back and Asuka got a squash the next week. Yep. Vince hates Asuka.

And yes, Asuka did suffer. She went into those matches super-over, she came out with the fans less interested in her act. That is the exact opposite of what pro-wrestling is supposed to achieve.



But they did that match and it didn't work. The crowd could give two shits. Maybe that does work in New Japan, but when Emma and Asuka did it, Asuka went under. "This should work, that should work," it didn't. They did it that way and it didn't. It's really that simple.

As far as the booking goes, you could argue that Emma should be booked stronger if they are going to get her to go out there and do that match, but how? Who do you put her over? Bayley? Then people will complain that Bayley isn't booked strong enough. Sasha Banks? Yeah, see how well that sits with people. This a problem with women's wrestling in the WWE.

That being said, it's not impossible for talent to be competitive despite a shitty win-loss record. A good worker can do this. They can put shine on the babyface and actually get a crowd into that shit. If it calls for them to show a lot more ass than Emma did, so be it, but they can also do it by giving a lot less. The truth is that Emma is just not that good at her job. If she were a good worker, then people would have bought the work. They gave her two consecutive chances and she blew both of them.

Dude, during her fucking promo she said she was done being Emmalina. During her one and only promo . It was over before..... nevermind. You obviously have no idea nor care.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Dude, during her fucking promo she said she was done being Emmalina. During her one and only promo . It was over before..... nevermind. You obviously have no idea nor care.

https://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2017/2/14/14618014/emmalina-debut-emma-character-wwe

I wasn't talking about a promo in front of the crowd. I'm talking about why they had her cut that promo in front of the crowd. Why do you think she went out there and said she was done being Emmalina?

[Ruien]

So they thought she was not committed enough which also means she never received a chance to play the character. WWW did not let her go out there to see if the crowd wanted it or not.

[Destor]

Emma is not worth 4 pages

[Simple Fan]

Agree with Ruien, Emmalina wasn't given a chance. In the least they could have let her do it and develop the character from there if it didn't go well. Letting her try and fail would have thought her more than what actually happened.

[Mr. Nerfect]

So they thought she was not committed enough which also means she never received a chance to play the character. WWW did not let her go out there to see if the crowd wanted it or not.

Yes, she did. She got a chance to play the character in front of the people screen-testing her and they said "nope." You can't give Academy Awards to people who fail to get roles because they blow the audition. This is just dumb.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Agree with Ruien, Emmalina wasn't given a chance. In the least they could have let her do it and develop the character from there if it didn't go well. Letting her try and fail would have thought her more than what actually happened.

Yes she was. She was given a chance to give Vince ideas and get a massive push. She couldn't do that. Pfft, next.

[Emperor Smeat]

In regards to who is at fault for Asuka's first two matches, its either the agent or whoever booked it for Emma to have that much offense against someone being hyped up as a dominate force in the WWE. Them having Asuka's 3rd match be a squash should have been a hint the WWE realized they messed up Asuka's aura right off the bat.


Emma is not worth 4 pages
Agree. She's at least worth 5 pages minimum, 6 with the EVIL persona.

[Destor]

"Whoever booked emma to have that much offense" haha

[Destor]

If i didnt know any better id think you guys think its just a game of simon says

[Ruien]

Yes, she did. She got a chance to play the character in front of the people screen-testing her and they said "nope." You can't give Academy Awards to people who fail to get roles because they blow the audition. This is just dumb.

Yes she was. She was given a chance to give Vince ideas and get a massive push. She couldn't do that. Pfft, next.

It's funny that this is coming from you. You, who is the biggest critic on Vince and creative to take them at their word someone does not have the talent to pull off a character.

[Mr. Nerfect]

That's because it is common sense in this scenario. They wanted Emmalina to work -- that's why they did all those vignettes. If you want me to bash WWE in this, I have no clue why they didn't test her before airing all these videos. But if they had struck gold with it, they would have put her on TV instead of Chazzing that shit.

And I've heard Emma promo. It's not good.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Sports Illustrated is reporting that Emma was released because she had "enemies" on the creative team. It might have something to do with her not being able to portray the characters they want her to portray. The same article states that the door is open for her to return down the line, but many consider her departure an "addition by subtraction." I think what that means is that by her not being there, it's one less person to work into plans, book around, cater to, etc. And it opens up a new spot for someone a bit more flexible to come in.

[Emperor Smeat]

Probably them still being very resentful the Emmalina thing didn't work and her being vocal at times on Twitter about her lack of use for RAW.

They tried an Emmalina-like idea with Lana but even that didn't work or last long. Like BrotherVito mentioned, Eva Marie was probably the only one would could actually pull off what the WWE wanted for the gimmick although she'd eventually run into the same problems as Lana afterwards.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I heard she got fired for being a jerk on Twitter.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Emma is not worth 4 pages

Fear not, we'll go more.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I heard she got fired for being a jerk on Twitter.

There are mixed reports on how she conducted herself backstage. Some say she's lovely, and that was speculated as to how she got her job back in the first place. Others say that she was hard to deal with.

[rockman725]

Wait... wasn't the Emmalina change just a mirage? I thought I remember it being something that was suppose to happen, then it couldn't because she was injured for too long, so they just played it out as a big joke because creative had no real storyline for it. It seems to me that you guys are saying that the whole stretch was a planned failure.

I do remember feeling that the TLC match was going on way longer than it should have as I watched it, but as was mentioned above, if they Goldberg'd Asuka, she would have zero longevity on a very thin roster. I can't believe that Emma being fired is solely on the match. My reaction is more feeling that Emma has been around a decent amount of time, but has not been able to "grab the brass ring" with the audience so she became expendable. I hate to see her go, but it is was it is.

[Anybody Thrilla]

There are mixed reports on how she conducted herself backstage. Some say she's lovely, and that was speculated as to how she got her job back in the first place. Others say that she was hard to deal with.

Not the Asuka matches though.

[GD]

I almost forgot that she was released for a hot second back in 2014 for shoplifting an iPad accessory from Walmart.

[GD]

I would rather they book Asuka as strong, but vulnerable, because I am 100% certain that if they wrote her as goldberg style dominant, they would write themselves into a corner and the end result would hurt her in the long run even more than people think this match with emma did.

Protect her and present her as a special attraction. The women's division on RAW is already overflowing with capable performers.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

And Asuka can be vulnerable but not in a way where she is giving the jtts of the division most of the match. The njpw comparison doesnt even hold weight because they work different style matches almost every night. Emma and Asuka worked a decent match but it was a standard wwe women's match and the crowd did not give a shit.

[GD]

Not sure if it is the mainstream audience or the change in the performer's in-ring style once they're promoted to the main roster.

Remember Sami Zayn (on the E&C Pod) stating that the NXT fans feel compelled and responsible for the talent but once they move to the main roster, it is a completely different scenario where the audience may or may not be familiar with their body of work.

[GD]

I guess that can be attested to Emma's first failed stint on the main roster.

https://threemanbooth.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/emmadanceraw.gif

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

They are also presented as something valuable in NXT and not treated like a bunch of pussies.

[GD]

Remember feeling emotional when Bayley defeated Sasha for the NXT Women's title at TakeOver Brooklyn. So much wasted potential.

[Big Vic]

I think they are building Asuka up to be fed to Roman Reigns.

[owenbrown]

Goddammit Savior don't give Vince any ideas :fu: :rant:

[Emperor Smeat]

Not sure if it is the mainstream audience or the change in the performer's in-ring style once they're promoted to the main roster.

Remember Sami Zayn (on the E&C Pod) stating that the NXT fans feel compelled and responsible for the talent but once they move to the main roster, it is a completely different scenario where the audience may or may not be familiar with their body of work.

I'd argue its because WWE does a very poor job bridging NXT with the main roster. NXT gets a lot more freedom to try out stuff but it only carries over if Vince/Creative care. Most of the time its ignored and Creative does a poor job giving fans reasons to care or see why those NXT stars are meant to be special.

Gets worse when considering the stories and rumors about the backstage bickering going on between Triple H's side and Vince/Dunn's side over the direction for callups.

[Fignuts]

Yeah, lets be clear about something. NXT is a wrestling show, booked with wrestling fans in mind. Raw and Smackdown are segments of a global multimedia empire booked with their investors and sponsors in mind.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The pro-wrestling/sports entertainment dynamic is certainly true, but that fucking Full Sail crowd doesn't help matters, because they will get behind almost anything ironically, and that creates the illusion that these gimmicks are over and that they can work to people who have relatively clean necks.

[Fignuts]

I stopped watching NXT because of Full Sail. Only watch the Takeovers now. Sucks, because the booking is good enough for me to get behind, but I just can't stand that audience anymore. They've grown to be so obnoxious.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The booking is fairly solid. It can be spotty sometimes, but it's generally logical, which I like.

[Heyman]

I always thought Emma was decent.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

I hope she re-starts her youtube cooking show

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Remember feeling emotional when Bayley defeated Sasha for the NXT Women's title at TakeOver Brooklyn. So much wasted potential.

They both were in the women's title match at WrestleMania and Sasha's was the 2nd time.

[GD]

Emma's negotiation with Stardom ended up after they couldn't agree with her demands.

[Evil Vito]

Reportedly she wanted $2,000 per match, first class airfare, and full creative control.

If she sticks with that at her going rate - she's probably not going to be in the wrestling business any longer.

[Sepholio]

When was her WWE contract set to expire if she hadn't been released? Maybe they were negotiating an extension and her asking price was way too high and she was being an ass about it. Could have pissed off management, who really didn't have anything for her, and wouldn't see a need to come up with anything if they knew they weren't going to re-sign her. Seems plausible at least if that is seriously her asking price.

[Evil Vito]

If her Instagram is any indication, she's got a modeling career on the side and endorses a few products. It could just be that she wants to take a break from the business unless she was given a crazy good offer, hence the asking price for Stardom.

If and when she wants to get back into it I'm sure her price will go down for bookings.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Wait... wasn't the Emmalina change just a mirage? I thought I remember it being something that was suppose to happen, then it couldn't because she was injured for too long, so they just played it out as a big joke because creative had no real storyline for it. It seems to me that you guys are saying that the whole stretch was a planned failure.

I do remember feeling that the TLC match was going on way longer than it should have as I watched it, but as was mentioned above, if they Goldberg'd Asuka, she would have zero longevity on a very thin roster. I can't believe that Emma being fired is solely on the match. My reaction is more feeling that Emma has been around a decent amount of time, but has not been able to "grab the brass ring" with the audience so she became expendable. I hate to see her go, but it is was it is.

No, Emma was supposed to come back as Emmalina. But when they trial ran the character, she couldn't pull it off, so they scrapped it and had her go back to Emma.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If her Instagram is any indication, she's got a modeling career on the side and endorses a few products. It could just be that she wants to take a break from the business unless she was given a crazy good offer, hence the asking price for Stardom.

If and when she wants to get back into it I'm sure her price will go down for bookings.

Or it could just be she overestimates her own worth.

[Lock Jaw]

No, Emma was supposed to come back as Emmalina. But when they trial ran the character, she couldn't pull it off, so they scrapped it and had her go back to Emma.

I'm sure she pulled it off fine. More like WWE actually saw the gimmick in action and only then realized it was bad, and then blamed Emma for not being able to play a hot chick.

[Mr. Nerfect]

You really think they would scrap the prototypical hot chick gimmick for a hot chick if they could pull it off? They basically gave the same thing to Lana afterwards. It's easy to blame the company and not hand the talent their fair share of the responsibility.

[XL]

And Lana did the gimmick for about 3 weeks. Maybe the idea was just bad?

[Ruien]

I already tried to explain this to Noid guys.

[Anybody Thrilla]

We can agree it wasn't the Asuka matches though, right?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I already tried to explain this to Noid guys.

What actually happened:

They tested it with pictures. On her debut of the gimmick Emma said she would not be doing it anymore.

Nah, they got her to do a promo in the gimmick or something and everyone shuddered and moved on. It was her big chance for a push she couldn't pull it off.

Dude, during her fucking promo she said she was done being Emmalina. During her one and only promo . It was over before..... nevermind. You obviously have no idea nor care.

https://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2017/2/14/14618014/emmalina-debut-emma-character-wwe

I wasn't talking about a promo in front of the crowd. I'm talking about why they had her cut that promo in front of the crowd. Why do you think she went out there and said she was done being Emmalina?

So they thought she was not committed enough which also means she never received a chance to play the character. WWW did not let her go out there to see if the crowd wanted it or not.

Yes, she did. She got a chance to play the character in front of the people screen-testing her and they said "nope." You can't give Academy Awards to people who fail to get roles because they blow the audition. This is just dumb.

Yeah, you sure explained it to me.

I know it's trendy to be all counter-culture and hate on the company and blame them for talent failing. I do it too. I hate the creative direction of the company for the most part. That being said, Emma got multiple chances to prove herself valuable.

* She was called up separately from the other NXT girls and got to be paired with one of the most over sideshow acts at the circus. Was it honest to her NXT portrayal? Of course not. Did it work? Nope. Part booking, but also part her.

*She got repackaged as a heel. Did she receive a push? Not really. That's now entirely her fault, unless she rubbed people the wrong way backstage. But did she blow anyone out of the water? Not at all. Part booking, but also part her.

* She got handed the Emmalina deal, which could have been huge. Look at how successful Sable got with a modicum of talent. Love it or hate it, wrestling is still sexist as shit, and being hot is going to get you air time. The gimmick was dropped because Emma fucking tanked it. This is her fault. Whether it was her choice to not go along with it or whether her accent or some shit got in the way, Emmalina didn't work the way it was supposed to which is why it was scrapped. You don't get to put the cart before the horse on this and reverse causation here. It's not like the company failed with Emmalina; Emma failed with Emmalina. Whether or not the gimmick would have worked is actually irrelevant, because it didn't and now she's out of a job.

* When they turned her heel they tried to use her as an enhancement heel again. What happened? Talent that worked with her got under. Part booking? Sure. You need to make her look strong for her to pass that onto others, but there are plenty of people who can work longer matches and draw people in and get them to invest in the babyface. Emma couldn't do that. She's limited as an in-ring talent and they don't have a heavyweight place for her. She's not entitled to be pushed just because that's the only place she could hypothetically work. They tried that and she couldn't work the gimmick they wanted.

It's not entirely Emma's fault that she was never used to the optimum. But for fuck's sake, it was pretty obvious where she was supposed to deliver and didn't. Couldn't do comedy, couldn't (or wouldn't) do diva, couldn't enhance. Now she's going around asking for $2,000 per appearance and creative control after stating that she does plan to stay in the business. There are escorts hotter than who would actually fuck fans and not charge that much. And they'd work for a full hour.

I like Emma. I think she's gorgeous to look at and I thought her NXT runs were good and I prefer her over most of the other women on the roster. But for fuck's sake, pull your heads out of her ass for a second and look at the evidence in front of you. "Maybe this," "possibly that," "if they had just done this," "if they had given her a huge push at the top maybe she would have been more over." Woulda, shoulda, coulda. They didn't. They didn't have to. They didn't want to. And when they did she didn't want to. And then when they both wanted to she couldn't. How do I know? Because they tried and she couldn't.

[Mr. Nerfect]

And Lana did the gimmick for about 3 weeks. Maybe the idea was just bad?

Lana is not someone who needs to ever be in a wrestling ring. Plus she was moving from an over act to an untested one. It's a completely different direction to Emma. And a lot of people still don't know whether or not Lana was supposed to be a face or a heel out the gate.

I compared the two, but they're not really equal. You could write an essay on how they are different. But yeah, don't try and convince me that the idea of the gimmick itself is bad. Hot girls are going to get attention in the business -- that's just the way it is. If you really think that being plain old Emma was better, I present to you the evidence of how it turned out for her.

[Mr. Nerfect]

We can agree it wasn't the Asuka matches though, right?

What are you even going on about? Of course the Asuka matches played a part. I think it's largely the consensus that they went on too long, gave Emma too much and cooled Asuka off. Then she got fired. I don't think anyone was ever saying "This one incident is the only reason." It was obviously a compounded issue.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I dunno, man. I just...don't...know.

[Lock Jaw]

Noid wrong about a lot of stuff about Emma, right about some other things.

On the whole, though, Emma was good and I will miss her and no one can convince me otherwise.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I feel you, LJ. It's been a tough time for all of us.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Maybe this should be Emmavember instead

[Anybody Thrilla]

I am one hundred percent on board with that. Or maybe we can do Emmacember.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Noid wrong about a lot of stuff about Emma, right about some other things.

On the whole, though, Emma was good and I will miss her and no one can convince me otherwise.

I feel the need to re-state that I like Emma. When she's booked to be a major babyface and she's going blow-for-blow "strong style" with another girl, it's "good" stuff. I agree with that. I can understand why people would say she's "decent" or just not their cup of tea at all. But when it comes to working anything else she loses people.

She was good within a small window, is what I'm trying to say. And she's only 28 or something. She could still make a career out of it and learn to broaden herself. I doubt her Instagram will disappear either.

[Lock Jaw]

My fav Emma was heel NXT Emma w/Dana Brooke, where she was feuding with Asuka

[Mr. Nerfect]

I liked that too. It worked in NXT. Emma was so hot in that role.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Yeah. Why couldn't they have just...fucking done that again.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Well, they tried to use her sex appeal and she tanked the gimmick. Sure, it wasn't "Evil Emma," but she had her chance to swing her ass around, give the bosses boners and get herself set for life.

I mean, it didn't click as a serious threat gimmick even in NXT, because she's never been a serious threat. But you need to present her like a serious threat in order for her to play serious threat. Do you get what I mean?

Emma's a fucking paradox, man. If you wanted her then you'd book accordingly. You'd make her look strong all the time so when she came out and shook her ass it felt like a big deal. But they didn't so they didn't and she can't do that without the presentation because it fucking cools everything down.

[Mr. Nerfect]

NXT and WWE are different environments.

[Anybody Thrilla]

They should have just stuck Dana Brooke with her on the main roster. Was it an Emma injury that blocked that? I don't right remember.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Emmalina made no fucking sense.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They should have just stuck Dana Brooke with her on the main roster. Was it an Emma injury that blocked that? I don't right remember.

It was partly injury. It was partly her tanking the gimmick they wanted to push her with. It was partly her being unremarkable. Because, good as she can be within a certain context, she's not remarkable.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Emmalina made no fucking sense.

It made perfect sense. While Emma was out she was posting all these sizzling photos of herself on Instagram. I came on here and said "If Vince sees these he'll make her a star." He tried. She failed.

Eva Marie got so much fucking heat in NXT because she was doing the diva thing. Sure, that was largely because she couldn't wrestle and the crowd thought they knew it, but Emmalina was going to take elements of that and put it into someone who can at least hold a note.

She'd have been a heel Sable if she could have wrestled. If it had worked, she'd be the Women's Champion right now.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Guys, I know this is hard to swallow, but Emma is largely to blame for her own failures. And she will be largely to credit for her own successes if she keeps working and gets better.

[Lock Jaw]

You know who I think is to blame?

Noid.

[Fignuts]

Yeah, fuck you Noid.

Way to get Emma fired, you asshole.

[Helmsphere]

I love you Noid but if this is true, I won't forgive you.

I will burn all my Val Venis/Danny Basham World Title Fan-Fictions

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

They should have just stuck Dana Brooke with her on the main roster. Was it an Emma injury that blocked that? I don't right remember.

Yeah and then Brooke was put with Charlotte.

[Tom Guycott]

Eva Marie got so much fucking heat in NXT because she was doing the diva thing. Sure, that was largely because she couldn't wrestle and the crowd thought they knew it, but Emmalina was going to take elements of that and put it into someone who can at least hold a note.



Nah. The crowd was well aware Eva couldn't wrestle, and the heat she was getting was absolutely the wrong heat. To paraprhase Cornette: it wasn't "I want to see this heel get beat up", it was "I don't want to see this heel"... and actually, as it went on, being a heel didn't matter, and it became "please for the love of God get this woman in particular the fuck away from a wrestling ring".

When you have half the audience actively cringe on TV at a very visibly blown spot/bad landing in every match where it looked like she was going to legit kill herself or her opponent or both, and yet the company still stays behind her for months because of whatever heel heat she supposedly got from Total Divas (never watched it, so I don't know and don't care), you should come to realize it isn't out of her being sexy with jealousy directed towards her (subjective: I didn't think she was hot at all) or a "diva", that is a "half them, half her" situation.

She didn't have the ability whatsoever for the plans that were in place, and yet they seemed bound and determined to make her the next top heel for the women's division in spite of all the talent that were active and the ones successfully being trained. It was like the opposite of Daniel Bryan; instead of bypassing a person who is good and over because they don't see it, they were pushing someone who was god awful and very not over, and getting less over because of how clumsy she was in the ring and how unbearable even her canned mic work was. She wasn't improving, but she was still getting the rocket up her ass. It was on her that she wasn't talented, but shame on WWE for continuing to try to shove that square peg in the star hole.

[XL]

Right on the nose.

It wasn’t the character that got her the heat, it was the performer - and not in a good way.

If you put someone with talent (I don’t know, let’s say for the sake of argument, Emma) in that role in NXT the crowd would have turned her face almost instantly. Yes, NXT is a different animal but that’s the comparison we’re working with.

[Tom Guycott]

Speaking of NXT, Emma getting over was one of those things that was oversimplified.

She had talent, and her whole gimmick was weird enough to set her apart, actually "be" a character, and not just be boiled down to bland "I'm going to prove a person with a uterus can kick ass! Girl power!" face or generic evil bitch heel #135. It was awkwardly endearing, much like Bayley was down there. But it got distilled into "weird dancing and bubbles? I don't get it!" on the main roster transition.

Now, if she *did* get the Eva Marie push, I don't think she would have neccessarily gotten over as a face ironically. It hasn't exactly happened for Billie Kay and Peyton Royce; they're absolutely heels. Bianca Belair is shaping up be a tremendous heel, but all things considered, someone will likely have the bright idea to match her up with Street Profits which would turn her face by proxy... got off track. She could have been a decent heel if *she* got the All Red Everything treatment instead of somehow being the dub-in for AJ Lee (that whole "started the Divas Revolution" thing always seemed like a petty, company mandated dig at her much like using Nikki Bella- of all people- to surpass her title reign). But much like asking what if WWE had actually gotten behind the Ryder Revolution instead of having him pop up in cameos at catering when he was at his hottest, we will never know.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It doesn't matter why Eva Marie got heat, the point is that they were going to get Emma to do it and she couldn't or didn't want to, haha.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">MELTZER WROTE A RETRACTION ON EMMA'S BOOKING FEE. APOLOGISE TO EMMA YIS PRICKS.</p>&mdash; rovert (@SoDuTw) <a href="https://twitter.com/SoDuTw/status/931051236626923521?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 16, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Anybody Thrilla]

God, I fucking miss Emma so much already.

[Mr. Nerfect]

She was barely on the show. Just Google image search her.

[Anybody Thrilla]

WOULD YOU JUST LET ME FUCKING GRIEVE

[Mr. Nerfect]

You can grieve, but this is getting to Princess Di levels.

[Anybody Thrilla]

There are plenty of other threads for you to post in.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Hahaha. Point taken.

[Tom Guycott]

You can grieve, but this is getting to Princess Di levels.

HOW DARE YOU BRING DIANA INTO THIS! TOO SOON!!!

[Mr. Nerfect]

Just a side note: Remember when Audrey Marie was fired for looking too much like Stephanie McMahon? Where is justice for Audrey?

[Anybody Thrilla]

I have no idea who Audrey Marie is, but feel free to start "Audrey Marie: The Thread", you fucking monster. :(