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Mr. Nerfect
12-05-2017, 03:56 PM
Let's talk about this.

Evil Vito
12-05-2017, 04:15 PM
Loose Cannon

Lock Jaw
12-05-2017, 04:15 PM
How many people does your average ROH show get?

Evil Vito
12-05-2017, 04:18 PM
Having said that, 10k is a big ask for any non-WWE show in the US. But it doesn't hurt to at least try, because if they get even half of that they'll make money with all the merch, signings, and all the other stuff that comes with the territory of indy wrestling.

There's very little risk involved for them to try, and if they run this thing in a wrestling hotbed I can't see them not getting 4 or 5k.

Mr. Nerfect
12-05-2017, 04:18 PM
1,105. It is going up. That being said, there are a lot of people who think this is a blatant lie and that ROH very obviously lies about selling out venues and inflates their numbers.

Mr. Nerfect
12-05-2017, 04:20 PM
Having said that, 10k is a big ask for any non-WWE show in the US. But it doesn't hurt to at least try, because if they get even half of that they'll make money with all the merch, signings, and all the other stuff that comes with the territory of indy wrestling.

There's very little risk involved for them to try, and if they run this thing in a wrestling hotbed I can't see them not getting 4 or 5k.

See, I think it's a mistake. Obviously not to try and get to 10,000 somehow, but even if the show is profitable (and once you've paid for the venue you want to hope that it is profitable), I think when you say "We're going to build it and they will come," and then they don't come, it makes you look like an idiot.

Consciously or not, if Cody and The Bucks can't do this, it's going to affect people's perceptions of them, and people can't always control their own perceptions, or even identify them.

Simple Fan
12-05-2017, 04:20 PM
I believe so given the time they have to promote it. Also depends on where its happening. Kind of feels like a true NWO Souled Out type deal with Bullet Club actually footing the bill.

Evil Vito
12-05-2017, 04:22 PM
Meh, to each their own. It won't impact my perception of them one way or another. They're willing to fork over the cash to take a chance on a lofty goal. Personally, I'd give them credit for trying.

Mr. Nerfect
12-05-2017, 04:22 PM
I suck at doing polls -- I wanted to include an option that says "They won't even get to 5,000." I do think they could be able to get there with some sort of galvanized effort and trying to make it sound like it's a part of history and like they're "sticking it to the man." I would be surprised if they can get more than 5,800. That's the magic number where I'll draw the line and say that I'm impressed.

Evil Vito
12-05-2017, 04:22 PM
If they run it after Bryan hits free agency and get him booked for the show, that won't hurt their cause.

Mr. Nerfect
12-05-2017, 04:24 PM
It won't hurt, but even then -- 10,000 people? In one city? Headlined by Cody Rhodes?

Mr. Nerfect
12-05-2017, 04:25 PM
Estimates place Cow Palace attendance for Cody at 2,500-3,000.

Evil Vito
12-05-2017, 04:26 PM
I'd have to think they're gonna try to run the show in a known wrestling hotbed. That alone will give them a nice jumpstart.

Mr. Nerfect
12-05-2017, 04:27 PM
New Japan drew less than 2,500 for their American shows.

Destor
12-05-2017, 04:27 PM
How many people does your average ROH show get?

1105 people

Mr. Nerfect
12-05-2017, 04:28 PM
I'd have to think they're gonna try to run the show in a known wrestling hotbed. That alone will give them a nice jumpstart.

It's also going to mean that they are going to have to spend a lot more money and will need to actually get closer to achieving the goal.

Destor
12-05-2017, 04:29 PM
Can Cody? Lol no. Can a show? Yeah.

Mr. Nerfect
12-05-2017, 05:00 PM
What would be on this show? I can't think of anything that isn't already on them and only draws about a quarter of that.

Simple Fan
12-05-2017, 05:20 PM
New Japan drew less than 2,500 for their American shows.

In a convention center, I don't think 10,000 is the goal though. Of course depending on the set and the actul size of the arena 10,000 might not even be possible. NJPW played it safe, this is kind of testing the market to see if them and ROH could do bigger arenas, which I believe is Cody's thinking.

Fignuts
12-05-2017, 05:24 PM
Yeah, the goal might not even be 10,000. It's likely just a marketing ploy to get more than they usually do.

DAMN iNATOR
12-05-2017, 05:56 PM
Depends on his art skills obviously.

slik
12-05-2017, 05:56 PM
If it was WM weekend, in the WM city, maybe.

Probably not otherwise.

#BROKEN Hasney
12-05-2017, 06:33 PM
I think with the right card, they can do it. It won't be easy, obviously, but I think right now more than anytime in the past 30 years is the best time to try something like this.

Outsider
12-05-2017, 06:38 PM
Are they looking outside the US? I read somewhere they were looking at London.

I could see it working in the UK as we don't get major shows so people would travel for it more than in the US where there a lot more shows to pick and choose from.

Cody doesn't have the power to draw alone, but a packed, high profile well promoted show? Could that draw around the same numbers as a Blackburn Rovers game?

Probably.

Emperor Smeat
12-05-2017, 06:38 PM
Getting even half (paid or not) is going to be really tough but if Cody manages to at least come close or break ROH's record, it would be a pretty big consolation prize.

ROH's current record is around 3500 for attendance and required being on Mania week to make it happen. Their non-Mania week record is around 2500 but required NJPW lending talent to make it happen.

Meltzer mentioned recently nobody outside of WWE has managed to hit the 10k number for a show since 1999-2000 WCW and even they needed to paper the numbers to make it happen for their later shows.

#BROKEN Hasney
12-05-2017, 06:56 PM
Are they looking outside the US? I read somewhere they were looking at London.

I could see it working in the UK as we don't get major shows so people would travel for it more than in the US where there a lot more shows to pick and choose from.

Cody doesn't have the power to draw alone, but a packed, high profile well promoted show? Could that draw around the same numbers as a Blackburn Rovers game?

Probably.

Looking through some attendance numbers, the highest drawing non WWE or TNA (because jesus christ they were popular here at one point) this decade was a sell out ICW show with 6,100 last year. And that had Kurt Angle headlining.

Outsider
12-05-2017, 07:06 PM
Looking through some attendance numbers, the highest drawing non WWE or TNA (because jesus christ they were popular here at one point) this decade was a sell out ICW show with 6,100 last year. And that had Kurt Angle headlining.

Yeah, but that was Scotland.

For most significant centres of population, Scotland is a dick to get to (the M6 can fuck off).

As much as I hate everything going to London, travelling to London is much easier for most people.

Bad News Gertner
12-05-2017, 07:07 PM
Lol Cody Rhodes

Anybody Thrilla
12-05-2017, 07:30 PM
I'm sorry, what's going on?

SlickyTrickyDamon
12-05-2017, 11:02 PM
NO!

Mr. Nerfect
12-06-2017, 03:13 AM
I'm sorry, what's going on?

Cody and The Young Bucks are apparently trying to fill a 10,000 seat building.

Mr. Nerfect
12-06-2017, 03:34 AM
In a convention center, I don't think 10,000 is the goal though. Of course depending on the set and the actul size of the arena 10,000 might not even be possible. NJPW played it safe, this is kind of testing the market to see if them and ROH could do bigger arenas, which I believe is Cody's thinking.

I do think they're working. I don't like The Young Bucks and have soured on Cody recently, but I can at least admit they have worked out a thing where they can survive without the WWE, and they've sold that story to Meltzer and the marks, who legitimately think they are millionaires and the hottest property in all of wrestling (Dave cannot shut up about those Hot Topic shirts).

But occasionally people start believing the work -- especially when they are prone to being marks themselves, as a lot of people in the business seem to be for each other. I can totally see them actually thinking they can draw.

Here's what doesn't make sense to me as it pertains to this being a work (and I might be thinking too old-school with this): Floating the idea is going to make people want to see you try. If you know you can't do it, then why put that idea into people's heads so they can see you fail and measure, exactly, your worth to the head. Because they made it about that. Their caveat has been "they still need ROH's permission," so are they going to heel ROH and say that their bosses won't let them be stars? That sounds dumb.

Lock Jaw
12-06-2017, 09:55 AM
They could get 10,000 in the right town and at the right time, because I could see their efforts going a bit "viral" and people going "ironically" or to stick it to WWE because they are so "cool".....

Heisenberg
12-06-2017, 10:02 AM
Depends on his art skills obviously.



http://www.profightdb.com/img/wrestlers/thumbs-600/700cbd02b6blackman.jpg

Jordan
12-06-2017, 10:28 AM
No way, WWE can't even draw 10000 in most placed with John Cena, how in the fuck would CODY and The Bucks draw more?

Loose Cannon
12-06-2017, 11:52 AM
I'm sorry, what's going on?

Apparently Meltzer said they couldn't put 10,000 people in an arena on twitter or something and I guess they took that personally.

I think if they marketed it correctly and got some stars to sign on, they could do it. But if it's just Cody and the Young Bucks main-eventing here, it might be tough.

Loose Cannon
12-06-2017, 11:54 AM
Getting even half (paid or not) is going to be really tough but if Cody manages to at least come close or break ROH's record, it would be a pretty big consolation prize.

ROH's current record is around 3500 for attendance and required being on Mania week to make it happen. Their non-Mania week record is around 2500 but required NJPW lending talent to make it happen.

Meltzer mentioned recently nobody outside of WWE has managed to hit the 10k number for a show since 1999-2000 WCW and even they needed to paper the numbers to make it happen for their later shows.

ok thanks for posting. i didn't know what to compare that number to. fuck 3500 is the record? was this Chicago? that seems so low. yeah maybe 10K isn't doable lol

Destor
12-06-2017, 11:59 AM
1105 people
Ftr that is their actual 2017 average

thecc
12-06-2017, 11:59 AM
To be fair they probably could have drawn more for the Chicago show if roh ran a bigger venue. If I recall tickets sold out in like a week.

TSI
12-06-2017, 01:52 PM
I think with the right card, they can do it. It won't be easy, obviously, but I think right now more than anytime in the past 30 years is the best time to try something like this.

I agree

Ruien
12-06-2017, 02:08 PM
I would pay 10 dollars to see Cody wrestler if he was in my area.

Evil Vito
12-06-2017, 02:40 PM
I saw two indy shows headlined by Cody this year. Cody/Ricochet and Cody/Mysterio. Fun times.

KIRA
12-06-2017, 03:53 PM
If they promise free food that might help

Lock Jaw
12-06-2017, 04:10 PM
Free hookers and blow

Mr. Nerfect
12-06-2017, 05:14 PM
To be fair they probably could have drawn more for the Chicago show if roh ran a bigger venue. If I recall tickets sold out in like a week.

I don't think that's because people are lined up around the block though. I think that's just the same guys going.

Mr. Nerfect
12-06-2017, 05:18 PM
There's a term in politics when you start believing you can achieve the promises you should never make. I've forgotten what it is. But I do wonder if Cody and The Young Bucks are starting to believe that they are actually draws on their own?

Emperor Smeat
12-06-2017, 05:34 PM
ok thanks for posting. i didn't know what to compare that number to. fuck 3500 is the record? was this Chicago? that seems so low. yeah maybe 10K isn't doable lol

Lakeland, Florida since it was during this year's Mania week. The Chicago Global Wars show owns the non-Mania record.

DAMN iNATOR
12-07-2017, 03:57 PM
http://www.profightdb.com/img/wrestlers/thumbs-600/700cbd02b6blackman.jpg

I'll allow it.

Helmsphere
12-07-2017, 05:38 PM
Free Hat and I'm there.

Helmsphere
12-07-2017, 05:48 PM
Also will there be a Brandi Rhodes Bang Blow?

XL
12-07-2017, 05:54 PM
There's a term in politics when you start believing you can achieve the promises you should never make. I've forgotten what it is. But I do wonder if Cody and The Young Bucks are starting to believe that they are actually draws on their own?
Confabulation?

owenbrown
12-07-2017, 06:24 PM
That Blackman post made me think Xero was back

Vastardikai
12-07-2017, 09:29 PM
Put Cody against Blackman and they'll do 20k.

Emperor Smeat
12-07-2017, 09:39 PM
According to the Observer, Cody and the Young Bucks are currently down to Chicago and Southern California as the host of their attempt at a 10k show. A few other potential locations were dropped due to traveling and cost reasons.

Also recently had a meeting in Dallas regarding potential sponsors to get for this show.

Ol Dirty Dastard
12-08-2017, 05:48 PM
What jerks for even trying... Right Noid?

Mr. Nerfect
12-08-2017, 08:45 PM
What jerks for even trying... Right Noid?

I don't think they're jerks for trying. I think they're jerks for thinking that they're there. Seriously think they might be marks for themselves. Hey, if they do it, I will have to eat my words.

Mr. Nerfect
12-08-2017, 08:45 PM
Confabulation?

You know what, I think that's it.

Fignuts
12-08-2017, 10:04 PM
I don't think they're jerks for trying. I think they're jerks for thinking that they're there. Seriously think they might be marks for themselves. Hey, if they do it, I will have to eat my words.

The wrestling business isn't a place for humility. Guys like The Rock and John Cena didn't get to where they are by saying "Gee golly, I don't think we could sell 10,000 seats, fellas!"

It's good that they have that kind of confidence. Shows they have drive, and a commitment to be the best.

Mr. Nerfect
12-11-2017, 05:08 AM
The wrestling business isn't a place for humility. Guys like The Rock and John Cena didn't get to where they are by saying "Gee golly, I don't think we could sell 10,000 seats, fellas!"

It's good that they have that kind of confidence. Shows they have drive, and a commitment to be the best.

Hahaha, The Rock and John Cena also knew how to be stars in professional wrestling.

OwenHartFan
12-14-2017, 10:43 AM
Let's talk about this.

If Rhodes could draw 10,000 people, he'd still be in the WWE.

Moron.

Vastardikai
12-14-2017, 01:44 PM
Only way Cody, et al draw 10k is if they

A. somehow manage to get Punk to wrestle Cody and put the Bucks against a big up and coming team like the Ugly Ducklings.

Or B. Get a piece of paper and a lot of pencils.

Ol Dirty Dastard
12-14-2017, 01:56 PM
Hahaha, The Rock and John Cena also knew how to be stars in professional wrestling.

Yeah what pieces of shit those other fucking losers are, right Noid? Such punks, with their 6 figure incomes. What a bunch of failures.

Big Vic
12-14-2017, 02:06 PM
Only way Cody, et al draw 10k is if they

A. somehow manage to get Punk to wrestle Cody and put the Bucks against a big up and coming team like the Ugly Ducklings.

Or B. Get a piece of paper and a lot of pencils.
C. live sex celebration with Brandi Rhodes

OwenHartFan
12-14-2017, 03:05 PM
C. live sex celebration with Brandi Rhodes

What are you like 12 years old?

That shit supposed to be funny?

:|

#BROKEN Hasney
01-09-2018, 12:27 PM
I've seen some rumblings that Cody and the Bucks might have Jericho and Rey on board for doing this with them. Does that change anyones views?

Nicky Fives
01-09-2018, 12:35 PM
I've seen some rumblings that Cody and the Bucks might have Jericho and Rey on board for doing this with them. Does that change anyones views?

Nope. There best bet is to do it the day before a Wrestlemania in a smaller arena in the same city. Otherwise, I see no chance of it happening. Not enough smart fans in one given area, nor will there be enough big names to draw that many to travel miles to get there....

Evil Vito
01-09-2018, 12:49 PM
There were probably like 2,000-3,000 people at the show I went to in August that had Cody/Rey headlining and Jericho doing an autograph signing/photo op. The stadium was like an hour and a half outside of Manhattan.

I'd say that's a good start if their plan is to hold the event in a proper wrestling hotbed.

Mr. Nerfect
01-09-2018, 07:47 PM
Yeah what pieces of shit those other fucking losers are, right Noid? Such punks, with their 6 figure incomes. What a bunch of failures.

I didn't say they were failures. I just said they weren't stars. I don't consider Heath Slater a failure, but I bet more people watch his segments with Rhyno on Raw than see a Young Bucks match.

Fignuts
01-09-2018, 07:57 PM
Yeah, but these guys are basically challenging themselves, and thats never a bad thing. Whether you think they can do it or not, you can't deny its got people talking about them. Even if they don't make 10,000 they won't look bad as long as the show is good enough which I'm sure it will be. Hell, if it gets good enough reviews they can use that to promote it next year for another try.

Mr. Nerfect
01-09-2018, 07:57 PM
I've seen some rumblings that Cody and the Bucks might have Jericho and Rey on board for doing this with them. Does that change anyones views?

Not really. 34,995 paid for the Tokyo Dome for Jericho's first match outside the WWE in 18 years. Compare this to 26,192 in 2017. That's an increase of 8,803, also factoring in a fantastic year for New Japan, in general, for one of the biggest shows of the wrestling calendar. I think they got something like 25,000 new subscriptions. That's a lot different from travel, tickets, accommodation, etc. Unless they are trying to bring in a local crowd.

I don't think people care as much as they think. I'm sure they can get a few thousand, but Jericho doing special appearances like this is going to lose its luster pretty quick -- the law of diminishing returns, etc. Rey is a legend too, but it's not like he was packing out 10,000 for WCPW or whatever.

They're looking at Chicago. I imagine they will try to get Punk. Even so, I am actually skeptical. I wouldn't be shocked if they achieved it, but how much is CM Punk wrestling on his own really worth? And then is it really Cody and The Bucks drawing that crowd? They can probably make a profit if they manage to get it on a subscription network and people sign up to see the Punk return.

#1-norm-fan
01-09-2018, 08:05 PM
If they get Punk in Chicago, they should get the 10,000.

Mr. Nerfect
01-09-2018, 08:08 PM
It seems more likely. I wouldn't be shocked if that happens. It wouldn't surprise me if they get to 8,500 though. "Should" is the right word, but I don't think it's a given.

Emperor Smeat
01-09-2018, 08:22 PM
Yeah, but these guys are basically challenging themselves, and thats never a bad thing. Whether you think they can do it or not, you can't deny its got people talking about them. Even if they don't make 10,000 they won't look bad as long as the show is good enough which I'm sure it will be. Hell, if it gets good enough reviews they can use that to promote it next year for another try.

Yeah depending on costs, can legit see them try again next year if they get close to 10k. The extra time for planning and lessons learned would be huge advantages for the potential next show.

If it ends up as a big bust, just means only WWE is strong enough to generate those types of numbers and Mania week is the best time to try another attempt.

Destor
01-10-2018, 09:34 AM
If you need wrestlemania to draw your crowd then, and this might blow your mind, you didnt draw the crowd.

Jordan
01-10-2018, 11:22 AM
I thought Cody and The Buck were supposed to draw 10,000 not CM Punk?

#BROKEN Hasney
01-10-2018, 12:46 PM
I thought Cody and The Buck were supposed to draw 10,000 not CM Punk?

I mean, they would be drawing it as they're setting up the show.

Destor
01-10-2018, 01:13 PM
Promoting =/= drawing

Destor
01-10-2018, 01:13 PM
But I would still give them the feather in the cap if they pull it off

Evil Vito
01-10-2018, 01:53 PM
Apparently they're doing this on September 1st, which is directly up against night 2 of PWG BOLA, Chikara's King of Trios, and a bunch of other non-wrestling events going on that weekend.

I know it's a holiday weekend and such but that feels like a poor choice of date if you're trying to maximize turnout.

Destor
01-10-2018, 02:07 PM
BOLA is in CA and Trios is in PA

Evil Vito
01-10-2018, 02:12 PM
Yes but you might get people who are big fans of PWG or Chikara opting to stay home and watch on iPPV.

If this show is hoping to draw 10k they need as little else going on that weekend in the wrestling world as possible. Especially since all three shows draw from the same fan pool.

Destor
01-10-2018, 02:18 PM
Eh those show will be there when they get home. Its 2018.

#BROKEN Hasney
01-10-2018, 03:55 PM
Yeah, called All In, which is a pretty good name for what they're doing.

So far Cody, The Bucks, Kenny Omega, Hangman Page, Marty Scurll and TV's Steven Amell.

Got 10.9k Twitter Followers in 4 hours. Now just gotta get dem buys.

BigCrippyZ
01-10-2018, 04:08 PM
I didn't realize Cody Rhodes new gimmick was that of a tortured and struggling artist whose dream it was to draw 10 people! Is he attempting to draw 10 people on one canvas? If so, how big is the canvas? Is he going to draw the 10 people freehand? Water colors? Paint by numbers? What are the time restraints on completion of the drawing of 10 people? Can he last long enough to draw 10 people? That seems like it would push him to his limits. Does he even own an easel? I'm not sure if Cody can draw 10 people, especially without an easel.

#1-norm-fan
01-10-2018, 04:24 PM
I'll go for TV's Steven Amell.

Emperor Smeat
01-10-2018, 05:16 PM
If you need wrestlemania to draw your crowd then, and this might blow your mind, you didnt draw the crowd.

Yes but at the same time its also the only time of year where the pool of wrestling fans in a single location is at its largest. Its been a very effective tactic by indie companies for drawing their biggest crowds of the year since not everyone goes just to see WWE stuff during the week.

Although as a trade-off, you also have to deal with a lot more competition than usual because of the large number of shows held during the week by WWE and other indies.

Mr. Nerfect
01-10-2018, 05:26 PM
If you need wrestlemania to draw your crowd then, and this might blow your mind, you didnt draw the crowd.

:lol:

Mr. Nerfect
01-10-2018, 05:28 PM
Yes but at the same time its also the only time of year where the pool of wrestling fans in a single location is at its largest. Its been a very effective tactic by indie companies for drawing their biggest crowds of the year since not everyone goes just to see WWE stuff during the week.

Although as a trade-off, you also have to deal with a lot more competition than usual because of the large number of shows held during the week by WWE and other indies.

All Destor was saying is that when there are that many wrestling fans floating about, you just can't claim to have drew them in. ;)

Mr. Nerfect
01-10-2018, 05:28 PM
I didn't realize Cody Rhodes new gimmick was that of a tortured and struggling artist whose dream it was to draw 10 people! Is he attempting to draw 10 people on one canvas? If so, how big is the canvas? Is he going to draw the 10 people freehand? Water colors? Paint by numbers? What are the time restraints on completion of the drawing of 10 people? Can he last long enough to draw 10 people? That seems like it would push him to his limits. Does he even own an easel? I'm not sure if Cody can draw 10 people, especially without an easel.

BigCrippyZ! :love:

Destor
01-10-2018, 06:02 PM
All Destor was saying is that when there are that many wrestling fans floating about, you just can't claim to have drew them in. ;)

Lol yeah, why do you think thwy were there? Your show is a time filler not the draw.

Destor
01-10-2018, 06:07 PM
If youre the draw youd be working sundays

#BROKEN Hasney
01-10-2018, 06:20 PM
Saw Cody reply to someone saying there will be at least one women's match at the show... I hope to god for his sake he doesn't book Brandi.

#1-norm-fan
01-10-2018, 06:36 PM
Midgets too or I'm out.

Bad News Gertner
01-10-2018, 09:58 PM
Yes but you might get people who are big fans of PWG or Chikara opting to stay home and watch on iPPV.

If this show is hoping to draw 10k they need as little else going on that weekend in the wrestling world as possible. Especially since all three shows draw from the same fan pool.

Gonna be hard to get talent too with PWG especially running a show.

Ruien
01-10-2018, 10:23 PM
Is it officially in Chicago? I may end up going. Probably not but maybe.

Jordan
01-10-2018, 11:16 PM
Have Kenny and Cody worked each other yet?

Evil Vito
01-10-2018, 11:32 PM
Have Kenny and Cody worked each other yet?

No, but it seems imminent. Bullet Club looks like it'll be divided unless Cody fully usurps him and they go with a full blown face, stable-less Omega push.

That might be for the best because if they split into Bullet Club and The Elite.......the Bullet Club portion will likely be Cody, Fale, the Guerrilas of Destiny, Leo Tonga, Chase Owens, and Yujiro Takahashi. Nothing against them but yeah........that's essentially the nWo B-team.

Destor
01-10-2018, 11:42 PM
Gonna be hard to get talent too with PWG especially running a show.

Valid

Lock Jaw
01-11-2018, 12:24 AM
Is it officially in Chicago? I may end up going. Probably not but maybe.

Bring 9,000 of your friends.

Danny Electric
01-11-2018, 01:55 PM
Cody would get 20,000 people attending if he grew back his moustache.

Vastardikai
01-11-2018, 02:12 PM
If he had the mustache and was wrestling Steve Blackman, they could sell out a stadium.

#BROKEN Hasney
01-11-2018, 02:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTPKgb0U0AATKAj?format=jpg&name=medium

Lock Jaw
01-11-2018, 06:52 PM
If they get Glacier, they can def sell out

Ruien
01-11-2018, 07:04 PM
Bring 9,000 of your friends.

There are about 4 people at work who would go. I am sure one of them will ask us to go honestly.

Mr. Nerfect
01-13-2018, 02:21 PM
Cody vs. Kenny Omega is probably the biggest main event they can do without bringing in CM Punk pro bono. Jericho would probably work for chips too, but who would he face? Ibushi? I would actually like to see Dalton Castle vs. Chris Jericho. I'm sure ROH talent will be involved.

#BROKEN Hasney
01-16-2018, 04:38 PM
Talent announcement at 7pm et today

#1-norm-fan
01-16-2018, 05:58 PM
Need to find that blank "All In" background without a wrestler in it. For comedy purposes.

Mr. Nerfect
01-16-2018, 06:31 PM
Listened to a really good podcast that shared my views, instead of the "Whoa, boy, give it a shot, lads!" naivety (as I perceive it). I want wrestling to be good outside WWE more than anything, but not sure that Cody Rhodes and The Bucks are the ones to do it.

Evil Vito
01-16-2018, 10:49 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTtp_eSV4AAvKVk.jpg:large

Mr. Nerfect
01-16-2018, 11:54 PM
He's desperate to get himself back out there.

Mr. Nerfect
01-18-2018, 03:07 AM
Tessa Blanchard is hot, but is she going to be able to draw 10,000 people? From the back seats, it'll be hard to tell her apart from a Jackson.

Mr. Nerfect
01-18-2018, 03:11 AM
Saw someone do this mock-up as the card:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTUOULKUMAIymO4.jpg:large

Not even certain that gets them to 10,000, to be honest. With the right promotion it would, but there is a lot of banking on Punk and Danielson returning to the ring. Ibushi, Omega, Cody, The Bucks, Neville and Scurll aren't going to draw.

SlickyTrickyDamon
01-18-2018, 03:43 AM
WWE is trying hard to sign Kota.

Mr. Nerfect
01-18-2018, 03:59 AM
I like Kota a lot. He's got that Tanahashi babyface vibe about him. If I were Kota I'd...maybe weight against it, just because the WWE is so fucking shit at booking babyfaces. And heels. And yeah. He can probably edge his way up into the Magnificent Seven Figure Club in New Japan and possibly be a pillar like Okada, Naito and Omega.

My heart really wants to see Kota Ibushi mix it up with AJ Styles, Shinsuke Nakamura and Randy Orton on SmackDown over the WWE Championship (imagine a heel Orton against Ibushi before you judge me). But I just have no faith.

Mr. Nerfect
01-18-2018, 04:04 AM
And my gut tells me that they don't let Neville go for walking out. I think they'd rather take the loss in the paychecks than see him go all over the world as the hot free agent that stuck it to them. And I imagine Daniel Bryan re-signs with WWE too. I think they'll pay him something like $5 million for 5 years, and Bryan has a family and a Bella brand to think about as well.

CM Punk is a guy that I can actually see re-signing with the WWE at some point, because they're going to need stars, and he's one of the few active guys they could feasibly book. Sure, he left on sour terms, but he's going to want to make that counter-lawsuit disappear, and he's going to need money and to regenerate that fan perception of him so he can keep banking out on his rep with other projects. He may look like a hypocrite for going back, but I think fans will lose themselves in it. And his thing was always the main event. If the Royal Rumble is in Chicago next year, don't be shocked if Punk enters, wins, and faces "Corporate Boy" Roman Reigns at WrestleMania 35. Neither will technically be a heel, but Punk will get free range to call Reigns on his shit, and Reigns can fire back (scripted, of course) to remind Punk that he took his ball and went home and said he'd never be back, but has come back for a shot a glory, etc.

It's Punk's clear shot and Vince arguably "needs" him more than ever. Taker, Cena and Brock are going to do it this year, but if Brock decides he's done, Taker goes and Cena just can't schedule around his Hollywood stuff...yikes.

Fignuts
01-18-2018, 04:18 AM
Dunno if I see Kota signing with WWE. He won't even sign with NJPW, which allows more creative freedom. His family is loaded so he doesn't have to do anything for money.

Mr. Nerfect
01-18-2018, 07:56 AM
I wonder if Nakamura is happy. Taking away the bullshit of how he's been handled and how he just feels like another guy at this point -- I wonder if he's happy.

Evil Vito
01-18-2018, 08:20 AM
Tessa Blanchard is hot, but is she going to be able to draw 10,000 people? From the back seats, it'll be hard to tell her apart from a Jackson.

Noid, I like you man but posts like this just make it sound like you're actively rooting for this whole thing to flop just because you're not fond of the people running it.

They're gradually introducing the people who are booked, including the undercard, over the next few weeks/months until tickets go on sale. I don't see the problem with this.

Mr. Nerfect
01-18-2018, 08:27 AM
I didn't say there was a problem with it?

Mr. Nerfect
01-18-2018, 08:30 AM
Other than they have to pay her to be there.

Evil Vito
01-18-2018, 08:40 AM
I dunno it just felt like "Why is she booked for the show? She's not gonna draw."

They still need to have an undercard. :p

Vastardikai
01-18-2018, 12:01 PM
Feel like Main Event should be something like CM Punk vs Jericho. Then have the semi Main be Cody vs Omega, preferably for the first time. Then, I dunno, Zack Sabre Jr. vs. Bryan Danielson, Young Bucks vs. Ugly Ducklings (give those guys a bit of exposure), Fale and G.o.D. vs. Killer Elite Squad and Suzuki, Joey Ryan vs. White Mike (a give Corney an annyeurism match),Marty vs Mysterio, and Pac vs. Ospreay for the opener.

Evil Vito
01-18-2018, 12:28 PM
I don't think Bryan's gonna be at this. His WWE contract is up in September and based on previous tweets he's sent out I think it's late September (he specifically referenced answering Cody's challenge on September 28th).

And if there's a 90 day no-compete that kicks in after his contract ends, the soonest on-air wrestling performance you could see him make is WK13.

#1-norm-fan
01-18-2018, 03:31 PM
I wonder if Nakamura is happy. Taking away the bullshit of how he's been handled and how he just feels like another guy at this point -- I wonder if he's happy.

I think he's happy with his paycheck. But I also think he lays in bed at night missing being a wrestler.

Mr. Nerfect
01-18-2018, 05:25 PM
I dunno it just felt like "Why is she booked for the show? She's not gonna draw."

They still need to have an undercard. :p

I dunno, I'm just amazed by the route they are taking. They are trying to make this WWE-lite, which doesn't surprise me, since Cody comes from the WWE bubble. I don't think people realize how hard it's going to be to get 10,000 into a building to watch sports entertainment. WWE has trouble doing it. Chris Jericho only added a couple of thousand, at most to the Tokyo Dome. You'd need a third of the extra subscribers to this year's Wrestle Kingdom show to attend All In in order to make up the 10,000 people. That was 9.99 yen, and it came from all over the world. You're asking those people to pay for airfare, travel, tickets, accommodation, etc.

I'm fairly certain they will have Jericho and Omega for the show, but you still need 10% of New Japan's subscribers from all over the world to be at that show in order to fill that arena. Sorry if that sounds cynical, but those are just the numbers. It's going to be all in the promotion. CM Punk being there would be a huge help in Chicago (probably -- I think Destor has more than a valid point when he talks about Punk's diminished wider appeal now that he's a confirmed bitch). But Jericho is only worth a few thousand people when he's wrestling in his first match outside the WWF/E in 20-odd years. What are diminished returns going to be like if he has clunkers between now and then? And they're signing up the usual indy suspects. Okay.

Mr. Nerfect
01-18-2018, 05:25 PM
I think he's happy with his paycheck. But I also think he lays in bed at night missing being a wrestler.

:lol:

Fignuts
01-18-2018, 05:47 PM
I imagine Nakamura would like to do more, but he's still being treated as a top guy, even if it's "just another top guy". Can't imagine he's too depressed.

#1-norm-fan
01-18-2018, 08:58 PM
It's not the position on the card that makes me say that. It's the fact that he went from a place that treats wrestling like an art form to a place where nothing he does on a nightly basis really matters. Being "treated like a top guy" in WWE is not the same as being treated like a top guy in Japan. The guy jobbed twice to Jinder Mahal. Clean the second time. He HAD to have gone him after that match and play his old New Japan matches like 24 hours straight.

That paycheck though.

Mr. Nerfect
01-18-2018, 09:23 PM
Would he really be getting paid that much more than New Japan? I imagine he was making at least $1 million a year in New Japan. I mean, if Karl Anderson is worth $750,000 (and you believe him).

I know a lot of Japanese people get Paris syndrome. The culture shock can be quite damaging to an individual's emotional state, even if Nakamura seemed prepared for it. I know he wrestled in the US and "loves America," but it's a bit different moving away from home, family, your fanbase and all these other things you're plugged into. And then there's the wrestling. He's treated as a top guy, but it's a top guy in a hocus pocus sports entertainment company. He may have "known what he was signing up for," but did he really know what he was signing up for? It's an interesting question. I guess we'll know in about a year when his contract expires.

Destor
01-18-2018, 09:25 PM
He's trying to earn a living. No different then when he was home. He did what was needed to get over in both cases. And both are art. The masterstroke is the selling of the product not the bumps.

Mr. Nerfect
01-18-2018, 09:29 PM
He's trying to earn a living. No different then when he was home. He did what was needed to get over in both cases. And both are art. The masterstroke is the selling of the product not the bumps.

I agree with the last statement there, and I don't actually want Nakamura to go balls-to-the-wall, but if he manages to sell the WWE product, he'll be the first guy since maybe John Cena.

#1-norm-fan
01-18-2018, 10:02 PM
Who mentioned anything about the bumps? He was in a much better position to sell the product in NJPW than he is in WWE. If wrestling is an art, he went from creating van Goghs to finger painting stick figures.

Mr. Nerfect
01-18-2018, 10:06 PM
Still think they should have promoted his best win percentage in WWE history thing while they had it. It's all about presentation. Fuck y'all.

Destor
01-18-2018, 10:06 PM
Thats because you elevate a bump heavy product as better. The better product is the one more people buy into and workers get that.

Old product fits your tastes better (and mine.) It doesnt make it more artistic.the art is the same for both. Convincing people to pay your wages.

Destor
01-18-2018, 10:07 PM
The art is the con.

Destor
01-18-2018, 10:07 PM
Not the match

#1-norm-fan
01-18-2018, 10:11 PM
If WWE's product fits Nakamura's taste better then never mind. He's probably completely happy where he is.

I highly doubt it does. I'm pretty sure he'd rather be creating something he can be proud of and not just being a spoke in a wheel of what appeals to the masses. That's the point. You're arguing something completely different.

Mr. Nerfect
01-18-2018, 10:27 PM
Yeah, I think we generally agree, Destor, but I also think that fewer and fewer people are buying into the con, so yeah.

#BROKEN Hasney
01-19-2018, 03:52 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I’m all in</p>&mdash; Finn Bálor Forever (@FinnBalor) <a href="https://twitter.com/FinnBalor/status/954211245913264128?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

https://i.imgur.com/D7E2qEv.gif

Jordan
01-19-2018, 04:23 PM
When is Finn's contract up?

Mr. Nerfect
01-19-2018, 04:25 PM
That's possibly the most interesting thing Finn Balor has ever said. It could be described as "mildly."

#1-norm-fan
01-19-2018, 04:27 PM
Would be hilarious if Cody replied "Sorry. Not over enough."

Mr. Nerfect
01-19-2018, 04:30 PM
And meant it.

Mr. Nerfect
01-19-2018, 04:30 PM
Finn's been quite outspoken on the Twitter, but actually seems to be getting a push.

#BROKEN Hasney
01-19-2018, 04:32 PM
It's Finn, he's taken the piss and teased a lot on Twitter before. No need to ask when his contract is up.

Mr. Nerfect
01-19-2018, 04:35 PM
I think that's pretty dumb, honestly. Why promote rival shit and whinge about how not over you are? Just silly.

Mr. Nerfect
01-19-2018, 04:36 PM
But I'm one of those fuddy-duddies who thinks that Twitter should be incorporated into your presentation and be used to further angles and encourage emotional investment, so what do I know?

#BROKEN Hasney
04-10-2018, 04:59 AM
Well, this will help

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Okada is All In<br><br>September 1st <a href="https://t.co/IAGH7TjJaw">pic.twitter.com/IAGH7TjJaw</a></p>&mdash; All In (@ALL_IN_2018) <a href="https://twitter.com/ALL_IN_2018/status/983476155838853120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 9, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Mr. Nerfect
04-10-2018, 05:02 AM
It won't hurt. It will help with the fans that were already going. I love Okada, don't get me wrong, but Bryan Alvarez was talking in his podcast about how Okada was walking around New Orleans and no one was recognizing him, haha. If I were in Chicago, I'd consider going to see Okada, but I'd probably rather go to a New Japan show.

Simple Fan
04-10-2018, 09:23 AM
Well, this will help

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Okada is All In<br><br>September 1st <a href="https://t.co/IAGH7TjJaw">pic.twitter.com/IAGH7TjJaw</a></p>&mdash; All In (@ALL_IN_2018) <a href="https://twitter.com/ALL_IN_2018/status/983476155838853120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 9, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Show just keeps getting better and they haven't even announced a card. But if Cody being leader of Bullet Club means a new episode of Being the Elite isn't going to drop on time then I want Kenny back.

Luigi
04-10-2018, 10:15 PM
Let's talk about this.

If Cody really put his mind to it, I’m sure he could draw 10 people with a pen and a paper.

Tom Guycott
04-10-2018, 10:41 PM
The only reason I picked "It's a work - they're not even gonna try" is because I read in "Steiner Math" voice.

Jordan
04-23-2018, 06:03 PM
Three more wrestlers have been confirmed for the Bullet Club's All In show.

Joey Janela & Penelope Ford and Chelsea Green were added to the lineup for All In today. They join Cody Rhodes, The Young Bucks, Kenny Omega, Stephen Amell, Hangman Page, Marty Scurll, Tessa Blanchard, Penta El Zero M, Rey Fenix, Kazuchika Okada, and Deonna Purrazzo as names that have been announced for the show.

Janela is coming off his Spring Break II event with Game Changer Wrestling in New Orleans over WrestleMania weekend. He and Ford regularly team together in intergender tag matches, but their role for All In has yet to be revealed. Green departed Impact Wrestling (where she wrestled as Laurel Van Ness) in January.

Two more people will be confirmed for All In this Wednesday. A press conference for the show, which will include talent/match announcements and ticket information, is taking place at Pro Wrestling Tees' store in Chicago on May 13th. The press conference will stream live on Facebook and Twitch.

The Sears Centre Arena in the Chicago area is set to host All In on September 1st. - Wrestling Observer

Jordan
04-23-2018, 06:04 PM
Feeling less and less positive about this show. I don't see a clear sell out main event in the works here. I think the best option would be to go with Okada/Omega as the main but I don't know. I guess the biggest question is, can they get CM Punk to do this show?

Jordan
04-23-2018, 06:05 PM
Is it assumed that Cody is in the main event here? If so, it ain't gonna happen.

Simple Fan
04-23-2018, 07:31 PM
I don't think they need CM Punk. Personally I think Penta vs Okada would be cool. Cody/Kenny 2 without the Bucks getting involved.

Mr. Nerfect
04-23-2018, 07:53 PM
I've got weird feelings about Cody. I always wanted him to do well, and I thought his tag team with Goldust in 2013 was amazing. I just sense this douchiness about him since he's left? I don't really know how to put it, but I when one of the MLW Radio guys was talking about it, they sounded a bit critical of Cody thinking he was a top guy. I was thinking "Cody is probably simply on a pilgrimage to improve," but then he does all these things that just feel like...sports entertainment missteps with the vanity of them happening to him. He got Downstait to do his theme, he's dyed his hair to be like his dad, he's doing in-fighting in stables angles, he's doing "funny" backstage segments, and he made that weird Twitter post about belts holding up pants. Was he being sarcastic?

I dunno -- Cody feels like a WWE mid-carder that ran away and is now playing WWE main eventer outside the WWE.

Simple Fan
04-23-2018, 09:15 PM
Pretty spot on except for the hair part, said he did it for an acting job. He's using the wrestling royalty gimmick with his lineage and I think the boys have bought into it and even some promoters. I think the stuff they've done with Being the Elite has been pretty innovative and really helpful for ROH seing as they only have an hour of TV a week. I think the should start up a spin off Being All In to push story lines for the event.

My Final Heaven
04-23-2018, 09:49 PM
I think it's kind of funny, Cody left WWE because he supposedly was tired of all the goofy shit he had to do as Stardust & wanted to be a "wrestler" again - then he dyes his hair, switches to sillylooking ring gear and starts coming to the ring with a bear mascot wearing a tie XD

Mr. Nerfect
04-23-2018, 10:12 PM
I think it's kind of funny, Cody left WWE because he supposedly was tired of all the goofy shit he had to do as Stardust & wanted to be a "wrestler" again - then he dyes his hair, switches to sillylooking ring gear and starts coming to the ring with a bear mascot wearing a tie XD

Yeah, that's exactly it. If I had to offer a completely unfounded psychological assessment, I'd say that Cody has spent so much time in the WWE bubble, and got there so young, that he doesn't really know the difference between goofy and serious, and he thinks that serious is just goofy outside the WWE with a "push." And since Dusty was up there for such a long time, and was also behind the scenes in TNA and WCW, I think that maybe some of his philosophies may have become "appropriated" in order to survive in the different week-to-week atmosphere, and Cody may have taken some instruction from that.

I just don't get why a guy doing WWE shtick thinks he's going to draw 10,000 people just because he's doing WWE shtick without the WWE machine behind him. It seems really arrogant to me. In that unfounded, non-wrestling way. I get the feeling that he's genuinely got a really high opinion of himself, and that radio host I was talking about earlier was actually pretty spot-on the money with him.

Simple Fan
04-23-2018, 10:45 PM
It's all a work though for the Cody/Kenny story. You have a guy in Kenny who was trying to be an "entertainter" away from WWE that made a turn in his career to being one of the best "wrestlers" on the planet and Cody comes in stealing his spot as an "entertainer" coming from WWE.

Mr. Nerfect
04-23-2018, 11:11 PM
Yuck.

Simple Fan
04-23-2018, 11:23 PM
It's one of the few compelling stories being told in wrestling today, I'm sorry you can't enjoy it.

Mr. Nerfect
04-23-2018, 11:24 PM
How does them fighting over the role of being "entertainer" even make sense?

Simple Fan
04-23-2018, 11:29 PM
That's not what they are fight for its just part of the story. It's about the leadership of Bullet Club and given the leaders tend to go to WWE it makes sense.

Mr. Nerfect
04-23-2018, 11:30 PM
So they're fighting over who is going to be good enough to go the WWE one day? Have I got that right?

Simple Fan
04-23-2018, 11:31 PM
No

Mr. Nerfect
04-23-2018, 11:31 PM
I don't understand then. How is it supposed to get me emotionally invested?

Mr. Nerfect
04-23-2018, 11:34 PM
My understanding was that Cody Rhodes left the WWE, and he's gone around acting like he's too cool for school. I didn't think that being a WWE-style clown was actually part of his gimmick. But I thought he joined The Bullet Club, because that's what the "cool kids" who make snide comments when they think the teacher can't hear do, and because Omega has gotten popular, Cody is getting jealous and they are splitting, but still do dorky homemade amateur sketch videos?

Simple Fan
04-23-2018, 11:51 PM
No and when Cody left he originally didnt do any of this. He had his list and did that before joining ROH and Bullet Club. They'd been wanting to do a leader vs leader Bullet Club story and was intended to be with Cole/Omega but Cole went to WWE. Once Cole left Cody amped up the "entertainer" aspect which played better into Kenny Omega. If you want to break it down like that it's not which should be in WWE, its both should be but are not so they'll do WWE better than WWE. Yeah it's a risk but how did anyone get anywhere without taking risk.

Mr. Nerfect
04-24-2018, 12:49 AM
But WWE is what people are sour on. Why does everyone feel the need to try and out-Vince Vince? It's just silly.

Simple Fan
04-24-2018, 01:15 AM
But WWE is what people are sour on. Why does everyone feel the need to try and out-Vince Vince? It's just silly.

No the fans they already have are the ones sour on WWE. The WWE just suffers from over production and if you can pull off what WWE is going for without that then you'll gain some new fans.

Mr. Nerfect
04-24-2018, 02:13 AM
Ooh, I don’t know about that.

erickman
05-11-2018, 06:59 PM
wonder how many cm punk will sign and sale

Mr. Nerfect
05-11-2018, 07:10 PM
CM Punk is easily the biggest attraction they have, and there will be the prospect of him getting involved at the actual show, so that might draw a few more people in. It'll be interesting to see how many, because I don't necessarily think he's an automatic 10,000.

Fignuts
05-11-2018, 09:21 PM
Simple Fan ironically overcomplicating the Cody/Kenny feud. All it really comes down to is Cody's character being a narcissistic, manipulative douche who needs to be the center of attention. That combined with his problems with Ibushi has caused him to butt heads with Kenny.

The Being The Elite stuff is just complemental material for fans who like that sort of thing. Don't need to watch it to follow the meat of the feud.

As for Cody doing silly stuff on twitter and youtube or whatever...he's just playing to his audience. Typically, people who watch ROH and NJPW enjoy seeing wrestlers break the fourth wall and do that kind of stuff now and then. Especially in Japan. You've got wrestlers partaking in game shows and all manner of silly stuff, such as the Togi Makabe Dating Simulator. It's just a different mind set.

Mr. Nerfect
05-12-2018, 06:06 PM
Thanks for explaining it. I think my problem with the whole Bullet Club thing is that it is really self-indulgent. I've read and listened to lots talking about how The Bullet Club actually haven't set business alight in Japan, and that a lot of the fandom are American hipsters who think they are onto something. And if that translates into something, then that perception is a reality, to a degree.

I just find the whole crotch-chopping, too sweet, we're so cool thing really forced when it's coming from the library Go club, that got the ironic blessing from the final years smoking behind it. Everyone in the group feels like a geek. The Tongans are probably legit bad-asses, but the context of them being the cool guys in a group of dudes they could eat but can have better matches than them is just...messy. There is much better use for their toughness that doesn't involve no-selling dramatic temper-tantrums from built-like-a-swimmer Cody Rhodes.

It's the attitude around the whole thing. They talk about wanting to sell out a 10,000 seat arena, and set themselves a standard of performance that they can't meet on their own (New Japan's ticket sales bear that out). You book a show that needs an arena, not an arena that needs a show. It feels silly to say this about guys actually wrestling, but it's like they don't understand what they are doing at all. The Young Bucks have made themselves out to be goofy dudes who can't beat people with tombstones and superkicks, and now they want to sell out an arena based on the drama of their performances?

It's very high school. So, so high school. My friends in the drama section would always say "Hey, let's put on a show!" and I was like "How are you going to sell tickets?" and they had this egocentric idea that people just loved them and would come to see them with their own money and spare time, and it really irked me. I don't know how else to explain it. I just find it frustrating that Cody Rhodes and The Young Bucks think they are such giant draws because they sell ~100,000 t-shirts a month.

Fignuts
05-12-2018, 06:43 PM
I'm LIJ for lyfe.

So bullet club is kind of whatever to me.

I do really love the Tongan crew and wish they would split off into their own group.

mike adamle
05-12-2018, 06:50 PM
Honestly Bullet Club stopped being entertaining once AJ Styles (and Anderson and Gallows although not as important) went to WWE. Kenny Omega is a great wrestler but his character isn't very entertaining. Other than incredible matches with Okada and reforming an alliance with a much more entertaining Kota Ibushi what has Omega really done to keep you into what he is doing?

I'm entertained by The Young Bucks but they aren't really leadership material either, which leaves Cody. Who is midcard entertainment.

Mr. Nerfect
05-12-2018, 07:07 PM
I'm LIJ for lyfe.

So bullet club is kind of whatever to me.

I do really love the Tongan crew and wish they would split off into their own group.

Haven't watched much in the ring from them yet, but aesthetically and theoretically, I agree with the premise, provided that Tama has gotten as good as I've heard.

Mr. Nerfect
05-12-2018, 07:10 PM
Honestly Bullet Club stopped being entertaining once AJ Styles (and Anderson and Gallows although not as important) went to WWE. Kenny Omega is a great wrestler but his character isn't very entertaining. Other than incredible matches with Okada and reforming an alliance with a much more entertaining Kota Ibushi what has Omega really done to keep you into what he is doing?

I'm entertained by The Young Bucks but they aren't really leadership material either, which leaves Cody. Who is midcard entertainment.

I agree with the assessment of Omega. He's very good at what he does in the ring, but he really falters into the personality department. His expressions, promos and just how he carries himself are so below-par for a top guy. I'm not entertained by The Young Bucks, but I think they could be really good if they applied themselves in different ways. Agree with Cody.

Fignuts
05-12-2018, 09:29 PM
Tama has become quite excellent in the ring. Most importantly he has a style that is uniquely his, adding even more to the ever growing diversity in NJPW. I could definitely see him stepping up to a leadership position and challenging for the IWGP and IC titles. Roa and Loa as the faction's tag team, with Fale being the bruiser, and challenging for the NEVER openweight title. Chase owens can be their Junior if he hits the gym and gets rid of the love handles.

Not sure what you would do with Yujiro though. If I recall, he's not an "honorary tongan" like Fale and Owens, but he doesn't really hang with the Elite either. Long as he keeps bringing that dime piece to the ring with him, I don't care who he sides with, tbh.

Emperor Smeat
05-12-2018, 09:49 PM
Apparently Vince Russo thinks not being invited for All In is some sort of conspiracy against him when Cody told him they simply don't want his bad rep involved with their show.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The ABSOLUTE FACT that I am ready, willing and able to appear at ALL IN while others are already attempting to do EVERYTHING in their power to keep me from attending-tells you just about everything you need to know about ME &amp; THEM.</p>&mdash; Vince Russo (@THEVinceRusso) <a href="https://twitter.com/THEVinceRusso/status/995114110332252160?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 12, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We don't reward bad behavior. Stay away from our event. <a href="https://t.co/CzMCHhVB6m">https://t.co/CzMCHhVB6m</a></p>&mdash; Cody Rhodes (@CodyRhodes) <a href="https://twitter.com/CodyRhodes/status/995169670285156352?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 12, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Edit: Whole issue seems to revolve around a Starrcast convention tied into All In and once Cody found out who was involved in that show, asked for Russo to be removed from the guests invited.

Mr. Nerfect
05-12-2018, 10:08 PM
Well, that’s something Cody has gotten right.

Loose Cannon
05-12-2018, 10:18 PM
i don't know, I really like Omega on the mic and his characters. but he's one of those guys you have to get. and i can see 50% of fans not understanding his shtick.

the WWE would completely overhaul his personality if they ever got a hold of him though lol

Vastardikai
05-12-2018, 10:39 PM
I hear all this talk that Omega was the best wrestler in the world, and he probably wasn't even the best in the Bullet Club (I had him at fourth, behind Tonga, Scurrl and Cody). Mainly because there's more to being the best wrestler in the world than just having good matches.

Daniel Bryan was billed as such, and he didn't really hit that until he started pointing at the sky and saying "Yes!"

Mr. Nerfect
05-12-2018, 10:55 PM
i don't know, I really like Omega on the mic and his characters. but he's one of those guys you have to get. and i can see 50% of fans not understanding his shtick.

the WWE would completely overhaul his personality if they ever got a hold of him though lol

There are guys like Austin and Meltzer saying he should be the top guy in WWE. And I'm like "Man, those 20 minute promos and duplicate matches are going to get sooooo fucking boring," haha.

I hope he stops doing the shitty mugging. I noticed he didn't do as much of it with Jericho. I definitely don't get it. You're supposed to be in a fight, so when you start distorting your face like a drunk Jim Carey, I'm just not going to invest in you.

Simple Fan
05-12-2018, 11:51 PM
Simple Fan ironically overcomplicating the Cody/Kenny feud. All it really comes down to is Cody's character being a narcissistic, manipulative douche who needs to be the center of attention. That combined with his problems with Ibushi has caused him to butt heads with Kenny.

I don't think I overcomplicated at all. I think it goes alot deeper than what you mentioned. I do have a hard time understanding Noid and communicating with him though which might have played into that. Generally don't understand most of his anoalogies which for some reason are mostly school based.

Mr. Nerfect
05-13-2018, 12:34 AM
I've worked in schools. They are easiest ones to draw. It's aided by most of the wrestlers acting like the lamest kids in the grade. Seriously. I now 100% believe the story about Ted DiBiase walking in on Cody Rhodes playing with action figures.

You made the story sound unappealing by making it sound like who gets to lead The Bullet Club as the lead entertainer so they can run away with the circus and join WWE. Fignuts made it sound more about a rupture between egos and preexisting friendships not being respected, which makes a lot more sense in the context of professional wrestling as conflict drama.

I can understand why Cody, being who he is, would think that he should be the biggest gaijin in Japan, and when Kenny Omega tries to stand up to them kicking the shit out of his friend, he sees an opportunity to turn a section of the group against him so he can finally have glory. That makes perfect sense. Less sense to me is a professional wrestling company pushing the idea that these two guys want to be more robust entertainers than the other so that they can make money elsewhere. It sounds like the Edge/Booker T shampoo commercial feud.

erickman
05-13-2018, 03:13 AM
Apparently Vince Russo thinks not being invited for All In is some sort of conspiracy against him when Cody told him they simply don't want his bad rep involved with their show.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The ABSOLUTE FACT that I am ready, willing and able to appear at ALL IN while others are already attempting to do EVERYTHING in their power to keep me from attending-tells you just about everything you need to know about ME &amp; THEM.</p>&mdash; Vince Russo (@THEVinceRusso) <a href="https://twitter.com/THEVinceRusso/status/995114110332252160?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 12, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We don't reward bad behavior. Stay away from our event. <a href="https://t.co/CzMCHhVB6m">https://t.co/CzMCHhVB6m</a></p>&mdash; Cody Rhodes (@CodyRhodes) <a href="https://twitter.com/CodyRhodes/status/995169670285156352?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 12, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Edit: Whole issue seems to revolve around a Starrcast convention tied into All In and once Cody found out who was involved in that show, asked for Russo to be removed from the guests invited.

where does the cody russo heat come from, I know eric bischoff and maby tony are going to be at starcast from mlw. maby cody wants jim cornett to make an apperence to shock the bullet club.

Evil Vito
05-13-2018, 11:27 AM
The prospect of Punk being involved in wrestling again was something where I always just said "I'll believe it when I see it." Even doing a signing in Chicago before All In wouldn't normally raise my eyebrows because he lives there and it would be a shrewd idea to try to capitalize on fans being in town.

But given how open he'd been about completely losing his passion for wrestling, to the point where he wouldn't even answer wrestling-related questions in interviews...that he's now doing a signing at a Pro Wrestling Tees shop does have me intrigued, especially given the working relationship between PWT and the Bucks.

I'm still not holding out any hope in him actually wrestling again until a match is booked. But him making an appearance and hitting a GTS for old time's sake now seems very feasible.

slik
05-13-2018, 02:07 PM
Press Conference for All-In

<iframe src="https://player.twitch.tv/?channel=beingtheelite" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="true" scrolling="no" height="378" width="620"></iframe><a href="https://www.twitch.tv/beingtheelite?tt_content=text_link&tt_medium=live_embed" style="padding:2px 0px 4px; display:block; width:345px; font-weight:normal; font-size:10px; text-decoration:underline;">Watch live video from BeingTheElite on www.twitch.tv</a>

Simple Fan
05-13-2018, 02:10 PM
You made the story sound unappealing by making it sound like who gets to lead The Bullet Club as the lead entertainer so they can run away with the circus and join WWE. Fignuts made it sound more about a rupture between egos and preexisting friendships not being respected, which makes a lot more sense in the context of professional wrestling as conflict drama.

That's was you who was of that thought, I told you no multiple times in the thread that it wasn't the story. You seemed to not want to come off so I presented a way you could look at it like that if you wanted. What Fignuts said was pretty obvious answer but wasn't what started our conversation. You were talking about Copy's silly stuff, which are subplots and filler for the story as whole which I tried to explain. But yeah at its core is about their egos colliding.

Maluco
05-13-2018, 02:34 PM
Cody Rhodes comes off like a real dick on twitter tbh. Always snapping at people with retorts far exceeding what was said and can't have any sort of opinion on Dusty at all that he doesn't agree with.

Jordan
05-13-2018, 02:43 PM
Cody to challenge for NWA Championship. Sounds good to me. He could do a lot for that brand.

slik
05-13-2018, 03:20 PM
Rey Mysterio announced for the show.

slik
05-13-2018, 03:27 PM
The crowd during that press conference was awful, the worst of the worst fans chanting 'fuck you Vince'

Grow up.

Simple Fan
05-13-2018, 03:38 PM
Figured Cody would be facing the NWA Champion at All In. Was either that or another match with Omega. Didn't really announce much of anything else card wise though.

Jordan
05-13-2018, 03:42 PM
That sucks. Rey is cool, I wonder who he will face?

Fignuts
05-13-2018, 03:57 PM
The crowd during that press conference was awful, the worst of the worst fans chanting 'fuck you Vince'

Grow up.

Wouldn't it make more sense to chant "fuck you Meltzer"? Since it was his doubts that spurred the show?

slik
05-13-2018, 04:13 PM
You can only buy tickets at the Sears Center website...have been trying for the last 15 minutes but I"m in a 'virtual waiting room' that says not to refresh...tried to calling the arena to order via phone and a recorded message came on saying they were too busy to take tickets over the phone and to order online.

slik
05-13-2018, 04:14 PM
Wouldn't it make more sense to chant "fuck you Meltzer"? Since it was his doubts that spurred the show?

Yes

slik
05-13-2018, 04:52 PM
It took 45 minutes but I got a ticket finally. Based on twitter lots of people still unable to get one.

slik
05-13-2018, 05:04 PM
All In is now sold out in one hour.

Jordan
05-13-2018, 05:25 PM
For real?

Jordan
05-13-2018, 05:25 PM
https://www.f4wonline.com/other-wrestling/all-tickets-sell-out-almost-immediately-after-going-sale-257626

Jordan
05-13-2018, 05:26 PM
Oh my gosh I am truly impressed and shocked and applaud them.

Jordan
05-13-2018, 05:27 PM
Yeah fuck signing CM Punk to wrestle keep the money for yourselves!

Jordan
05-13-2018, 05:27 PM
It sold out in 30 minutes. I am so shocked. Wow.

Ol Dirty Dastard
05-13-2018, 05:28 PM
Noid won't be happy

Jordan
05-13-2018, 05:30 PM
I wonder if they will stream this or just try and make this a semi regular thing.

Simple Fan
05-13-2018, 05:33 PM
They've never said anything about a stream but the goal was to sell out the 10,000 seats. Now that that's accomplished might as well look for somewhere to stream it.

erickman
05-13-2018, 05:35 PM
so cody drew 10 people. sell out in an hour kind of figured it would sell out fast one time thing and all the hype. sorry noid.

Evil Vito
05-13-2018, 05:42 PM
A shitload of these tickets were bought up by scalpers. Gonna be expensive to get in the building and it remains to be seen if 10k actually show up.

But, the tickets are sold. Good on them.

erickman
05-13-2018, 05:45 PM
I guess Meltzer did not think of scalpers cody still wins

#BROKEN Hasney
05-13-2018, 05:56 PM
A shitload of these tickets were bought up by scalpers. Gonna be expensive to get in the building and it remains to be seen if 10k actually show up.

But, the tickets are sold. Good on them.

I guess Meltzer did not think of scalpers cody still wins

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just for a comparison, SummerSlam has 4,400 secondary market tickets out out of 13,600. All in has roughly 149 (it changes) out of roughly 10,000.</p>&mdash; Dave Meltzer (@davemeltzerWON) <a href="https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/995783257613451264?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 13, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

No doubt there will be a few more, but so far, much less of an impact than most big events.

slik
05-13-2018, 05:56 PM
A stream at a good price, 7.99 or 9.99, would definitely be a good idea. A stream at something like 40-50 bucks though would not.

#BROKEN Hasney
05-13-2018, 05:59 PM
It won't hurt, but even then -- 10,000 people? In one city? Headlined by Cody Rhodes?

Cody Rhodes Vs fucking Magnus, would you believe. For the NWA title.

And they did it.

Simple Fan
05-13-2018, 06:00 PM
A stream at a good price, 7.99 or 9.99, would definitely be a good idea. A stream at something like 40-50 bucks though would not.



I'd say $15

Emperor Smeat
05-13-2018, 06:06 PM
Legit surprised Cody actually managed to do it. Not holding the event during Mania weekend nor announcing the card leading up to tickets going on sale were huge gambles but he pulled it off.

People speculated NJPW's struggles with selling tickets for their next US show was going to hurt All In's chances but it had no effect in the end.

#BROKEN Hasney
05-13-2018, 06:08 PM
Yeah, New Japan haven't announced who will be at the Cow Palace show even. I ended up not booking tickets to the UK show just before it because half the roster including Omega are putting on a show at a fighting game event, so fuck that.

They need to say who will be there. I think tickets will pick up after Dominion as they can start booking what will be there then.

slik
05-13-2018, 06:08 PM
NJPW was hurt by going to the same market again (imo)

I think they should have gone to Boston/NYC/Philly.

#BROKEN Hasney
05-13-2018, 06:12 PM
Yeah, that too since those shows are like 3 months from each other.

Ruien
05-13-2018, 06:20 PM
Wait. They already sold out the show for Chicago? I wanted to go.... lame. Figured there would be 10 dollar tickets available the day of. Whow.

Had anyone besides WWE or WCW well 10k worth of tickets for 1 event?

#BROKEN Hasney
05-13-2018, 06:25 PM
Wait. They already sold out the show for Chicago? I wanted to go.... lame. Figured there would be 10 dollar tickets available the day of. Whow.

Had anyone besides WWE or WCW well 10k worth of tickets for 1 event?

Other companies have before, but it was when wrestling was hot still. No company other than WWE has done for a couple of decades now.

Emperor Smeat
05-13-2018, 06:30 PM
Not in almost 20 years in the US. Dave Meltzer stated its happened a few times in Canada for a non-WWE/WCW promotion within the same period.

Happened plenty of times in Japan and Mexico though.

Evil Vito
05-13-2018, 06:46 PM
Eat shit Meltzer

Vastardikai
05-13-2018, 06:52 PM
I am not exactly a fan of most of those folks, excepting The Villain (there is an 80 percent chance I will tuck up Marty's last name, so I will just call him that.) and Cody's current thing somewhat. That said... good for them.

Black Widow
05-13-2018, 10:19 PM
When they get on a big network and compete with vince then i'll be impressed.

Ruien
05-13-2018, 10:23 PM
When they get on a big network and compete with vince then i'll be impressed.

These people are not a wrestling company though. It's just something they threw together.

Destor
05-13-2018, 11:33 PM
Good for them

SlickyTrickyDamon
05-13-2018, 11:51 PM
Some piece of shit is selling front row for 1,900. What a douche.

LibSuperstar
05-13-2018, 11:57 PM
They really trying to make a come up.

Destor
05-13-2018, 11:57 PM
Can Cody? Lol no. Can a show? Yeah.
Still stand by this.

slik
05-14-2018, 03:08 AM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">How is that sad, confused by your comment that's good for pro wrestling, shows you don't need WWE to make a living wrestling!!! Not everybody's dream is to have a wrestle mania moment!!!!</p>&mdash; daniel fennell (@danfen14) <a href="https://twitter.com/danfen14/status/995897329113796608?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 14, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Bless your heart.</p>&mdash; Sean Waltman (@TheRealXPac) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheRealXPac/status/995897679178645504?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 14, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

#BROKEN Hasney
05-14-2018, 04:16 AM
I don't get it. Is XPac back on drugs?

Fignuts
05-14-2018, 04:28 AM
Weird. Xpac has spoken positively about lots of indy guys and promotions on his podcast.

Tom Guycott
05-14-2018, 05:31 AM
As someone who is fluent in [/sarcasm], I understood X-Pac perfectly fine.

slik
05-14-2018, 08:03 AM
How did anyone not pick up on his sarcasm

The internet is a strange place

erickman
05-14-2018, 08:28 AM
How did anyone not pick up on his sarcasm

The internet is a strange place

yeah I took it as a joke, Daniel must be a snowflake who never heard a joke

Ol Dirty Dastard
05-14-2018, 09:07 AM
Still stand by this.

Yeah you're right. Still a good accomplishment though.

Mr. Nerfect
05-14-2018, 09:41 AM
Good for them. I didn’t think they would get there. If anything, I think it’s more a demand for a different kind of show, and still sincerely doubt anyone really cares about Cody Rhodes, but they didn’t land flat on their faces. That nothing’s really been announced is the giveaway there. Running in the same market shouldn’t be a problem months apart, but it is.

Ol Dirty Dastard
05-14-2018, 09:44 AM
lol "Good job but I'm still right even though I was wrong".

Fact is, it was never going to be ALL ABOUT Cody. I don't even think HE thinks he's that big of a draw.

Swiss Ultimate
05-14-2018, 09:48 AM
Some piece of shit is selling front row for 1,900. What a douche.

It's Cody Rhodes.

Mr. Nerfect
05-14-2018, 09:53 AM
lol "Good job but I'm still right even though I was wrong".

Fact is, it was never going to be ALL ABOUT Cody. I don't even think HE thinks he's that big of a draw.

I didn’t say that. Stop projecting. I didn’t think they would do it; they did — I was wrong. I just think Destor’s thinking on this happens to be correct. All those guys are going to be at New Japan. It’s the novelty of the event, which I didn’t think would be enough, but apparently is.

Mr. Nerfect
05-14-2018, 09:56 AM
They’ve got the money, but it will be interesting to see how many people do turn up. I doubt scalpers got that many tickets, but it’ll be interesting to see the actual attendance of the show.

Destor
05-14-2018, 09:57 AM
I think Punk played a huge roll in the draw ftr HOWEVER they've done a wonderful job hyping the show up until now. I will be curious to see what they can do long term or if this is just a one off.

Ol Dirty Dastard
05-14-2018, 09:57 AM
Noid you are so easy sometimes :lol:

Mr. Nerfect
05-14-2018, 10:00 AM
Given the perception of interest, I can see them seguing it into some sort of TV deal. If not for weekly stuff, some sort of specials. But maybe they will just do live events. I can’t see them not doing it again unless the show absolutely sucks or attendance is at the 6,000 mark and scalpers bought a shitload of tickets for some reason.

The promise of Punk would have helped, but I honestly didn’t think he was that much of a draw, haha.

Mr. Nerfect
05-14-2018, 10:01 AM
Noid you are so easy sometimes :lol:

Oh, you dastardly rascal, you.