CM Punk Gimme A Hell Yeah

[The MAC]

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[Black Widow]

At least hes losing unlike the part timers he cried about.

[Jordan]

Man he can't fight for nothing.

[Maluco]

He is incredibly unathletic, but anyone who remembered his elbow drop will know that!

Probably the reason he got so banged up with WWE too, he just doesn't have the athleticism needed to be an athlete at the top level. Should wrestle a few times a year at big events and just save his body.

This will go down as the worst UFC fights of all time (in comparison to standard of era). He left depressed, but was really bitter and cruel to many people on his way out. Don't really feel bad for him as he should never have been on the card in the first place and has caused a lot of resentment among UFC fights now too.

[Sixx]

He should fight Butterbean. That would be comedy gold.

[Destor]

Lol he's done. RIP all his credibility

[Destor]

Fight looked like an armature fight

[Destor]

Jackson is awful ftr

[Evil Vito]

I respect Punk for trying, but it's clearly just not for him. Three years of training and still miles and miles away from being even remotely decent.

Time to give it up and move on.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Yeah as I said, Mike Jackson is horrific.

Wrestling fans are very forgiving though and while his cred as a badass is dead with us (tbf it was always dead with us, dude has never been much of an athlete) if he wanted to come back he'd be welcome with open arms.

[Evil Vito]

Despite his adamant "I am done with professional wrestling" approach, I'm still gonna keep hope alive for an All In appearance. I mean he's doing a signing the day before at Pro Wrestling Tees and he'd be guaranteed a massive ovation. So my hope is he does that and maybe realizes going back to ROH and/or NJPW where he won't need to work a crazy ass WWE schedule ain't the worst idea.

[Ezra]

Hoping he starts training for his life long goal of being a rugby player next.

[Simple Fan]

I hope he tries MMA again and gets his ass kicked, again. Bellator might give him a shot now. Have no desire to see the guy wrestle either.

[Vastardikai]

In related news: Mike Jackson got signed to a WWE Developmental contract.

[James Steele]

Doesn’t he still have 1 fight left on his UFC deal? :roll: He needs to come back to wrestling for just one more match to end his career on a positive note, make a fuckton of money, and the. Pursue comic books or the gazillion other things he is interested in.

[Theo Dious]

At least he put up a fight this time.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

he's still made quite a bit of money to get his ass kicked.

[Innovator]

If he wants to keep fighting, he needs to be away from ufc, maybe an amateur fight

[Maluco]

At least he put up a fight this time.

I don't think that is how other fighters and MMA fans would see it. He has been training for over two years now, shown so little improvement, was fighting against another amateur, who, in the face of it, wasn't even close to being bothered by his terrible offence.

This fight, for all intents and purposes, was way more embarrassing than the first one, given the standard of opponent, the time he has spent training and how awful he looked. Not to mention the fact that there was proper backlash and resentment that he was on the main card.

It has been a really embarrassing venture for him and he should really pack it in completely. If he doesn't, he is being extremely foolish, not to mention dangerous. He took a lot of clean shots last night.

[Splaya]

It wasn’t even the fact that he got his ass beat. It was the fact that from the time the bell rang in round 1 to the conclusion of the fight , you never sat there and thought “wow he has a chance to win this fight”. Especially against someone as terrible as Jackson.

[RP]

The trial is over. Punk aint long for this game. But he certainly has a tough chin. I'll give him that. He took shots. Kept going. I'm impressed from that aspect. But this venture into MMA is over.

[BigCrippyZ]

Outside of Punk himself, did anyone realistically expect Punk to actually be successful in UFC?

I forgot this fight was even happening because of how little I expected of Punk in UFC, even if he had won this fight.

Outside of the initial interest he brought in from being in WWE, it wasn't likely he was ever going to amount to anything meaningful in UFC in terms of winning big fights or titles, given the competition.

[Cool King]

I respect Punk for trying, but it's clearly just not for him. Three years of training and still miles and miles away from being even remotely decent.

Time to give it up and move on.

[Ezra]

Somebody tweet punk that backyard mma that gets posted here on occassion. He can start there.

Streetbeefs. Punk vs bipolar bobby

[Sixx]

Hoping he starts training for his life long goal of being a rugby player next.

How about ballet?

Motherfucker would look rad in a tutu.

[Destor]

At least he put up a fight this time.

He didnt. Did you watch the fight? Thankfully or fought someone who is over the hill anf unskilled or he would have died

[Destor]

And ftr i dont respect people just for trying

[Destor]

Somebody tweet punk that backyard mma that gets posted here on occassion. He can start there.

Streetbeefs. Punk vs bipolar bobby

Mighty mouse would legit fuck him up and im not even joking

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Yeah Michael Jackson is fucking atrocious. Dana White is firing him for his performance against Punk.

The whole thing was dumb but not dumb for Punk because he went 0-2 and made a million dollars. And if he wants, he can go back to wrestling no matter how many people act like his cred is dead.

[Maluco]

And ftr i dont respect people just for trying

I don't really get this argument either. He has got a contract based on his celebrity, not visibly improved in 3 years. Lost twice, in embarrassing fashion and I guess he is some sort of hero?

It was arrogant to even attempt to fight in the UFC and honestly, I don't think he deserves much credit.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I don't think he thought he could win tbh. I think he's friends with Dana and Dana saw a couple of buyrates out of it.

[The MAC]

He says he is done with wrestling- I believe him. He seems like the kind of person that would never do what anyone wants him to do. He will go the other way on principle.

I can't see him holding a WWE championship after these high profile losses. He has the stench of failure on him. Would Vince want a champion that has been proven not to be able to fight in the real world?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I don't understand internet fans.

They "hate" Vince and the WWE. Always talk about guys "standing up" to him. Yet, someone like Punk (or Bret) does, and they spend every waking moment afterwards disparaging them from that point forward.

Punk isn't perfect, but I don't get the rampant hate.

[xrodmuc316]

He didnt. Did you watch the fight? Thankfully or fought someone who is over the hill anf unskilled or he would have died

He did alright, but it's cause Jackson had zero finishing skills, or if he did he choose to play it safe and run out the clock.

Granted Punk did alright, far better than against a real fighter like Gall, but regardless dude didn't get knocked our or tapped out. Losing by decision is far better than the above ways.

Regardless of everything else, he can at least say he competed this time, vs just showing up and getting destroyed in 2 minutes with zero offense.

All that being said, he clearly isn't athletic enough to make up for having no skill. I guess if Bellator wants to throw a payday at him, I wouldn't fault him for taking one more beating, and yes he would lose again.

He should just stick to writing comic books going forward, cause it's the only thing he is good at, other than that one thing where he made $Millions, met his wife, and actually was respected. He hated it SOOOOOO much though, poor guy.

Also, he is about to be 40, isn't he too old to still act like a punk rock teenager? Always talking about being an outcast in school, that was 22 years ago Phil.

I don't believe any of the bull he spews about chasing his dream. He said the same crap when it fit his narrative of wanting to make WWE Better and he loves the place.

Dude is full of it, just playing up a story to fit his ego.

[Destor]

I dont hate vince or the wwe. I hate hypocrites tho. Anf punk def is that.

Bitches about part timers and celebrities taking his spot for half a decade then goes to UFC and fights on the main card @0-1 vs 0-1 while mark hunt is on the undercard.

Fuck that guy

[Destor]

@xrod

No he did not do alright. He fought a bum and looked substantially worse than the bum. The fight is a black mark on the UFC as a whole an no one came out of it looking "alright."

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Mark Hunt didn't fight last night. (Maybe he did on the last card)

[Sixx]

I really want CM Punk to continue.

Become the UFC's punching bag.

I do enjoy watching him get beat up.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Dana literally is firing Mike Jackson after the fight lmfao

[Destor]

Mark Hunt didn't fight last night. (Maybe he did on the last card)

Meant overeem. Watching e3 and my brain is distracted

[BigCrippyZ]

I can't see him holding a WWE championship after these high profile losses. He has the stench of failure on him. Would Vince want a champion that has been proven not to be able to fight in the real world?

With as little Vince actually cares about kayfabe and the prestige of the titles anymore, I don't think Vince would let that prevent Punk from holding any WWE championship.

If it makes him $ or makes his company look popular or good, he will do it.

The big question is, would Vince hold it against Punk for Punk's previous actions and statements about his company, employees and family?

Or even more likely, when Vince dies and/or cannot run WWE anymore, would HHH/Steph hold Punk's previous statements and actions against Punk?

I could see Vince letting those things go probably. HHH & Stephanie, not so much.

[Destor]

I really want CM Punk to continue.

Become the UFC's punching bag.

I do enjoy watching him get beat up.
Become the new tank abott but without the potential to win :lol:

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I dont hate vince or the wwe. I hate hypocrites tho. Anf punk def is that.

Bitches about part timers and celebrities taking his spot for half a decade then goes to UFC and fights on the main card @0-1 vs 0-1 while mark hunt is on the undercard.

Fuck that guy


I'm sure at no point in your life have you done anything hypocritical. I'll grant you, I believe ALL WWE stars who bitch about the part-timers are a bunch of crybabies, but it was only one of the problems Punk had with the company - one of which I disagreed with wholeheartedly. Punk ain't main eventing any card with Rock and Cena on it. You think if he was actually happy with the way he was treated by the company that even would have been as much of a point of contention for him? There was a litany of other things that had rattled his cage and "being a hypocrite" just happens when emotions run high. Using it as a "whatabotism" is just some dumb shit people think to justify disliking someone. That was one gripe that was stupid amidst 15 others I totally sympathized with.

He was wrong about the mania stuff, and he was right to take the payday from Dana, cuz why the fuck not? I would have. $1 million to get your ass kicked twice? Sounds okay to me.

[Destor]

He's hypocrite. Fuck him. Its my no.1 pet peeve in life. Stand by your words or youre worthless to me.

[Maluco]

If I was already a millionaire, had some integrity and cared about my reputation and could still wrestle some big matches 2-3 times a year across the next 4-5 years and make big money doing it?

No, I wouldn't go to another sport I am terrible at, position myself at the table with the best in the world, putting some of them on the undercard in the process and make a laughing stock of myself.

Money isn't everything, and in his case, it wasn't the only way he could have gotten it.

[Destor]

No, I wouldn't go to another sport I am terrible at, position myself at the table with the best in the world, putting some of them on the undercard in the process and make a laughing stock of myself.

Money isn't everything, and in his case, it wasn't the only way he could have gotten it.
Laughing stock AND a liar. 2 for 1

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

He's hypocrite. Fuck him. Its my no.1 pet peeve in life. Stand by your words or youre worthless to me.

So if I say something to you one day and I am steadfastly ALL ABOUT IT but then my world view changes over time, I have to stick to it because I felt that way once? That doesn't offer much room for personal growth.

[Sepholio]

In related news: Mike Jackson got signed to a WWE Developmental contract.

Is this legit? If so, LOL.

[Destor]

So if I say something to you one day and I am steadfastly ALL ABOUT IT but then my world view changes over time, I have to stick to it because I felt that way once? That doesn't offer much room for personal growth.
There's a distinct difference between that and hypocrisy and i know youre smart enough to not need that explained to you

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I do find it particularly cringe that his initial gimmick in the WWE was as some Muay Thai specialist LOL FFS

[Destor]

If punk went on record saying he was wrong about his outrage and he didnt deserve a spot over them id forgive him. His song wont change though.

[Ezra]

Holy shit Vince is a genius. This is clearly a long con by Vince to discredit the ufc. He sent punk out to infiltrate years ago by pretending punk walked out of the wwe. Not only that but set up a fake lawsuit to really drive home the fact punk and wwe hate each other. Dana, always looking to show up Vince welcomes Mr. Brooks. Punk "trains" for his matches and puts on shit shows so that fans and shareholders begin to question dana's ability to run the organization. Enter Vince who under the guise of the xfl takes out 100 million to secretly buy 51% of ufc under everyone's noses. Vince fires Dana and turns ufc into ufc PG. This gives Brock no where to go so he remains universal champ until hhh and steph's oldest comes of age to defeat him. UFC blossoms under the PG era and cm punk fulfills his dream of winning the ufc title in all the divisions. Wrestlemania 50 features punk vs Brock in a who gets power of attorney over Paul heyman. Fucking brilliant.

[Destor]

I do find it particularly cringe that his initial gimmick in the WWE was as some Muay Thai specialist LOL FFS

Too bad he didnt work the clinch :lol:

[Maluco]

There is a shoot story told about him fighting some indy worker outside a fast food restaurant, thinking he was the tough lad . It might have been teddy hart. And he got beat up then.

Think a little bit of him always felt he was a tough guy.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

There's a distinct difference between that and hypocrisy and i know youre smart enough to not need that explained to you

But again... maybe if you ask Punk now about the mania main event he has a different feeling on it? Emotions were running high at the time and much like any messy break up, people take issue with asinine things they'd take less personally with clearer heads. You're getting really stuck on one contentious issue (because you HATE hypocrites) and not looking at the whole deal.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

If punk went on record saying he was wrong about his outrage and he didnt deserve a spot over them id forgive him. His song wont change though.

He's a moody cuss, which is kind of a problem. And it's not like he'll ever talk about it again, so we'll never know.

[Destor]

But again... maybe if you ask Punk now about the mania main event he has a different feeling on it? Emotions were running high at the time and much like any messy break up, people take issue with asinine things they'd take less personally with clearer heads. You're getting really stuck on one contentious issue (because you HATE hypocrites) and not looking at the whole deal.

Its his words. If he doesnt change them then he's a hypocrite. Thats how that works.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Punk is "tough" in that he can take a bit of a shit kicking but lacks any athleticism and brute strength to really dole anything of note out.

I'm sure he can beat up your average dad bod nowadays given he's spent 3 fucking years training with professional fighters, but not anyone with anything close to professional experience.

Even Batista was awful in his only MMA outing. He got the win but realized fast it wasn't for him.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Its his words. If he doesnt change them then he's a hypocrite. Thats how that works.

I mean realistically he doesn't owe any of us an explanation. Not that you owe him anything yourself (since you don't know him or care about him). But I find you being so highly principled about this kind of farcical. If you can't understand the he-said she-said nonsense of a bad business relationship then I dunno what to tell you.

[Destor]

Punks hand eye is a huge problem.
He has no awareness of where his body is. If that doesnt come natural its almost impossible to teach

[Ben Rodrigues]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">You win some, you lose some! I'm 1-1 this week and I'll take it! Thanks to my team, my family, my friends, and THE FANS! Wouldn't be here without any of you. Respect to <a href="https://twitter.com/TheTruthJackson?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TheTruthJackson</a>, thanks for the fight! You only live once, and... I'M ALIVE! <a href="https://t.co/UPPGFpx4iS">pic.twitter.com/UPPGFpx4iS</a></p>&mdash; Coach (@CMPunk) <a href="https://twitter.com/CMPunk/status/1005715287637987328?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 10, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Good for him. One of the greatest WWE performers of all time who had a chance to do something he really wanted to do. Is he an Anderson Silva or Jon Jones? Absolutely not. But good on him for trying.

He nailed it when he said that there are people out there that thrive off seeing other people fail. Shame.

[Destor]

I mean realistically he doesn't owe any of us an explanation. Not that you owe him anything yourself (since you don't know him or care about him). But I find you being so highly principled about this kind of farcical. If you can't understand the he-said she-said nonsense of a bad business relationship then I dunno what to tell you.

This isnt a business issue. This is a principle issue. Punk didnt think it was bad business to main the rock he presented a moral argument. One he didnt stand by. He is a hypocrite and deserves no respect from anyone

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Punks hand eye is a huge problem. G
He has no awareness of where his body is. If that doesnt come natural its almost impossible to teach

Yeah... like if you compare him to Danielson (for instance) it's like two different species. I watched Bryan train with Sheamus and his coordination and understanding of his own body is fucking ridiculous. I'm honestly just laughing at the idea of Punk trying to keep up with Bryan in a work out.

[Ultra Mantis]

I think it's pretty clear CM Punk needs to re-evaluate his life decisions and go back to what he's good at.

Before he hangs it up for good, I hope he can win a few more court cases once he graduates from law school.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

This isnt a business issue. This is a principle issue. Punk didnt think it was bad business to main the rock he presented a moral argument. One he didnt stand by. He is a hypocrite and deserves no respect from anyone

Fair enough. He's kind of killing me here because it's not like he'll field any questions on the matter but i'd like to hear him discuss the difference of the Rock main eventing mania versus him taking a spot on a UFC card.

But fuck you regardless. ;)

[Destor]

Yeah... like if you compare him to Danielson (for instance) it's like two different species. I watched Bryan train with Sheamus and his coordination and understanding of his own body is fucking ridiculous. I'm honestly just laughing at the idea of Punk trying to keep up with Bryan in a work out.
Agreed. Danielson moves very intelligently.
I think it's pretty clear CM Punk needs to re-evaluate his life decisions and go back to what he's good at.

Before he hangs it up for good, I hope he can win a few more court cases once he graduates from law school.
+1111
Fair enough. He's kind of killing me here because it's not like he'll field any questions on the matter but i'd like to hear him discuss the difference of the Rock main eventing mania versus him taking a spot on a UFC card.

But fuck you regardless. ;)id love to say otherwise but the diff takes him admitting his faults. Thats what growth is. Until he does im incapable of respecting him. Its in my bones.

Good worker though. Better talker. Worse fighter.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

And I also 100% agree with you that there is literally ZERO difference in the two scenarios. Promoters saw a chance to make money and they took it. Really quite simple. I've always been annoyed by the full-timers complaining about the part-timers. There's a different convo to be had on why the full-timers can't draw for shit, but it's not the part-timers' faults.

[Destor]

Id support any wrestler wanting to go part time anywhere they thought it would make them money. And i aupport new york using part timers to get paid. No issues there. Get paid.

[xrodmuc316]

@xrod

No he did not do alright. He fought a bum and looked substantially worse than the bum. The fight is a black mark on the UFC as a whole an no one came out of it looking "alright."

I am not arguing that point at all. No, it shouldn't have been a UFC fight, that's not my point. He did alright, not good, just alright, against a guy who himself isn't good.

No, it is not UFC level of skill, yes this is the kind of fight that should take place in a regional MMA card, but take all outside factors and considerations away, just CM Punk vs Mike Jackson, he did alright. He lost, he should not be considered a skilled fighter in any way. I am only saying that he showed was good enough to compete against Mike Jackson, even if he lost, he at least competed this time.

Last time he just got beat up, it wasn't a fight, this time he was in a fight. He landed punches and kicks, he got a takedown, he even attempted a few submission moves, poorly attempted sure, but Jackson had to defend against them.

[xrodmuc316]

Holy shit Vince is a genius. This is clearly a long con by Vince to discredit the ufc. He sent punk out to infiltrate years ago by pretending punk walked out of the wwe. Not only that but set up a fake lawsuit to really drive home the fact punk and wwe hate each other. Dana, always looking to show up Vince welcomes Mr. Brooks. Punk "trains" for his matches and puts on shit shows so that fans and shareholders begin to question dana's ability to run the organization. Enter Vince who under the guise of the xfl takes out 100 million to secretly buy 51% of ufc under everyone's noses. Vince fires Dana and turns ufc into ufc PG. This gives Brock no where to go so he remains universal champ until hhh and steph's oldest comes of age to defeat him. UFC blossoms under the PG era and cm punk fulfills his dream of winning the ufc title in all the divisions. Wrestlemania 50 features punk vs Brock in a who gets power of attorney over Paul heyman. Fucking brilliant.

Lol Punk to UFC is the new Russo to WCW

[Destor]

I am not arguing that point at all. No, it shouldn't have been a UFC fight, that's not my point. He did alright, not good, just alright, against a guy who himself isn't good.

No, it is not UFC level of skill, yes this is the kind of fight that should take place in a regional MMA card, but take all outside factors and considerations away, just CM Punk vs Mike Jackson, he did alright. He lost, he should not be considered a skilled fighter in any way. I am only saying that he showed was good enough to compete against Mike Jackson, even if he lost, he at least competed this time.

Last time he just got beat up, it wasn't a fight, this time he was in a fight. He landed punches and kicks, he got a takedown, he even attempted a few submission moves, poorly attempted sure, but Jackson had to defend against them.this went 3 rounds but it wasnt a fight. He was slaughtered. Im dumb founded that the score card went 30-27. I had it at 30-25

[Destor]

No way you can sell me on round 3 being a 10-9 round

[Destor]

Going the distance is an insult to jackson not a credit to punk.

[Destor]

Headline says it all:

Dana White Unhappy With 'Complete Idiot' Mike Jackson For Actions During UFC 225 Fight Vs. CM Punk


https://www.forbes.com/sites/trentreinsmith/2018/06/10/dana-white-unhappy-with-complete-idiot-mike-jackson-for-actions-during-ufc-225-fight-vs-cm-punk/

[xrodmuc316]

this went 3 rounds but it wasnt a fight. He was slaughtered. Im dumb founded that the score card went 30-27. I had it at 30-25

All cards were 30-26 I believe.

[Destor]

Unanimously 30-27

[xrodmuc316]

Headline says it all:

Dana White Unhappy With 'Complete Idiot' Mike Jackson For Actions During UFC 225 Fight Vs. CM Punk


https://www.forbes.com/sites/trentreinsmith/2018/06/10/dana-white-unhappy-with-complete-idiot-mike-jackson-for-actions-during-ufc-225-fight-vs-cm-punk/

Yes that is my point. Punk did alright against an untalented "idiot". If this bout was in front of 200 people for some random small time MMA Promotion, I would say the same thing.

Just because it happened on a UFC PPV doesn't change that point. Everything else beyond that point, I agree with what you are saying.

[xrodmuc316]

Unanimously 30-27

"The former WWE star, whose birth name is Phil Brooks, suffered a relatively one-sided decision loss to Mike Jackson at UFC 225 on Saturday night at the United Center. All three judges scored it a shutout for Jackson, 30-26."

http://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/23748639/cm-punk-falls-mike-jackson-three-round-unanimous-decision-ufc-225

[Destor]

I mean if we were talking about a fight in a hotel ballroom id see your point but we're talking about something that happened last night on pay per view

[Destor]

"The former WWE star, whose birth name is Phil Brooks, suffered a relatively one-sided decision loss to Mike Jackson at UFC 225 on Saturday night at the United Center. All three judges scored it a shutout for Jackson, 30-26."

http://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/23748639/cm-punk-falls-mike-jackson-three-round-unanimous-decision-ufc-225i must have been way more drunk than i thought i was

[Frank Drebin]

When destor get shit faced, he confuses a digit here or there. He's a really fun guy to be around.

[Destor]

I remember shouting at my tv that the decision what shit because #drunkmath

[Destor]

:lol:

[Emperor Smeat]

After watching the fight, can see why White is pissed since Jackson's antics made it seem like the fight was fixed in terms of going the distance.

With Punk's first fight, his biggest mistake was having no Plan B when his first punch missed but with this fight, I'd blame his camp more since it became obvious Punk really lacks the skills needed to even beat no namers or "cans." An amateur fight before this one would have been very beneficial in terms of experience and as a gauge if it was even wise to do a 2nd UFC fight.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I remember shouting at my tv that the decision what shit because #drunkmath

You just woke up in the morning thinking Mike Jackson won a split decision 29-28, 29-28, 28-29

[KIRA]

This is what happens when your regiment consists of smack-talking and Pepsi.

[xrodmuc316]

I mean if we were talking about a fight in a hotel ballroom id see your point but we're talking about something that happened last night on pay per view

Lol correct and now you get what I was saying. Was it disgraceful to UFC and PPV, yes. That's why I said all things removed. Just cause the dude throwing at the first pitch at a baseball game is clearly not good enough to be a Major League Pitcher, if they at least have a decent throw you can say they did Alright.

This fight would be CM Punk threw it straight and it bounced to the catcher.

Much better than his last fight, which is more like...

83FHj53QBHY

[Destor]

You just woke up in the morning thinking Mike Jackson won a split decision 29-28, 29-28, 28-29

Lol no i thought the scored it 30-27 which would mean that last round was not a 10-8 round which was offensive to my drunk past self. I have the 2nd and 3rd @10-8 but i could see a 10-9 for the 3rd but that last round was way too embarrassing to be ANYTHING but 10-8 or even 10-7. It was REAL bad. He was gassed and ridden like a mule.

[Destor]

30-26 is appropriate for exactly how lop sided that was. 30-25 would have been fair too.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Lol no i thought the scored it 30-27 which would mean that last round was not a 10-8 round which was offensive to my drunk past self. I have the 2nd and 3rd @10-8 but i could see a 10-9 for the 3rd but that last round was way too embarrassing to be ANYTHING but 10-8 or even 10-7. It was REAL bad. He was gassed and ridden like a mule.

lol I know I was exaggerating, sir.

[Vastardikai]

How much do you wanna bet that Jackson gets signed to WWE?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Lol, I take it Punk got smashed?

The thing is, I don't like the idea of him coming back as some ace wrestler after he's been so widely exposed as a dude who doesn't know what he's doing. A commentator? Maybe. But you still have to talk about how that guy was the best WWE Champion they've had in ages, yadda, yadda.

I don't know. I don't know what to do.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Bam Bam Bigelow got smashed by Kimo Leopoldo

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

they say it was a work but it looked like a shoot to me.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Bam Bam was probably mostly used up at that point anyway, wasn't he?

[Savio]

CM Punks first round in this fight wasn't bad.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Bam Bam was probably mostly used up at that point anyway, wasn't he?

He still had his run in ECW and WCW afterward. I think it'd be different if Punk got wasted by some bum in a bar but he got beaten by a professional (albeit low tier) fighter.

Remember, Shawn Michaels got the shit kicked out of him in Syracuse and while they try big it up and say it was 8,000 marines who jumped him, there's another side of the story that he got cold cocked by one dude he pissed off. Fact is, he got beaten up by non-wrestlers and he was still pushed to the moon.

[Destor]

He wasnt beaten by a pro though. Thats the thing. guy was 40 and 0-1. Thats not a pro. thats an amateur who was brought in to do a job.

[Destor]

He lost a fight to a job guy. And he lost 30-26 in one of the ugliest fights ever.

[Destor]

This is literally some bum they found in a gym.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I believe I called him Boxcar Fred in another thread. A hungry fighter - in fact he's fighting for a sandwich.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

And I predicted Punk would get out of the first round but that would be the height of his success.

It doesn't matter though, you and Noid may not be forgiving, but most wrestling fans would clamour to have CM Punk back. It's an exciting name to throw into an unexciting product (if it's WWE).

[Destor]

Who would job for him?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

whoever Vince told to.

[Destor]

not likely

[Destor]

some of the undercard guys would

[Destor]

Not a single top guy would lay down for him.

[Big Vic]

Yeah Punk should just write comic books now or something.

[Big Vic]

Or get a bit part in the Walking Dead.

[Destor]

a bit part on the talking dead maybe

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Not a single top guy would lay down for him.

that is a crock of shit and you know it.

[Destor]

I absolutely do not. We call it doing a favor for a reason. As a Hart mark you should know better.

[Big Vic]

Is Ziggler a top guy? He loves jobbing.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I absolutely do not. We call it doing a favor for a reason. As a Hart mark you should know better.

Well I guess since you're friends with all the top guys you know they won't put him over.

[Destor]

Lets say Im not. Historically this is clearly a thing.

[Destor]

Just using the info the exists in the public realm this obviously occurs.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Nowadays it's not. If we're talking 1997 then yeah he'd be fucked. But guys don't have that same kind of sway anymore. If Vince resigned Punk and was willing to let bygones be bygones, it'd be for money that "top" guys would have to job to him.

[Destor]

The top guys are still picky about who they job to, its why theyre top guys. This notion that that has changed exists only in your mind. You think Lesnar would lay down for Punk after that? Cmon.

[Ezra]

Punk vs mcgregor please

[xrodmuc316]

Some too guys would, but I agree the majority wouldn't. Guys like Cena, Bryan, Samoa Joe, Rollins, Ambrose, Miz, guys he previously worked with and didn't disrespect on the way out.

But I can't see Lesnar, Roman, Braun, AJ, K.O., Lashley, Shinsuke, etc.

That isn't even taking into account that I doubt Vince would book him to go over any of them unless he came back with a heel gimmick of I hate this place, this profession, and these fans, but they gave me so much money that I'm here, just for now, even though I'm so much better than this place.

Let's be honest though, none of it is happening. Maybe in the past, but WWE has more money with their new TV deals then they need, so the whole best for business doesn't matter. Especially after the suspension of disbelief being gone that he could win fights.

If anything, I think he could have a good run in NXT, but I bet HHH would want to bury Punk even more than Vince.

[Innovator]

Nowadays it's not. If we're talking 1997 then yeah he'd be fucked. But guys don't have that same kind of sway anymore. If Vince resigned Punk and was willing to let bygones be bygones, it'd be for money that "top" guys would have to job to him.

Only problem is that the main problem with Punk and WWE is between Punk and HHH, not Vince. All of the guys who have come back and buried the hatched were with Vince, not HHH, so it'll be interesting to see if he can let go of animosity.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Punk wouldn't come back unless he was booked decently and was compensated in a way that would ensure good booking. But he's the type to hold a grudge so it likely won't happen.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

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[Big Vic]

Can we stop giving Cornette air time?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I like Jim Cornette you asshole lol

[Sixx]

Punk vs mcgregor please

Only if it's a dance-off.

[Innovator]

Punk wouldn't come back unless he was booked decently and was compensated in a way that would ensure good booking. But he's the type to hold a grudge so it likely won't happen.

If I was overnighted my termination papers on my wedding day, I wouldn't be jumping at the opportunity to go back to work at the place.

[Evil Vito]

Punk is done with WWE. I believe that firmly.

I do think he'd consider ROH/NJPW unless WWE really did completely kill his passion for the entire industry.

[#1-norm-fan]

Punk vs HHH will happen at WrestleMania someday.

[xrodmuc316]

Punk vs HHH will happen at WrestleMania someday.

Literally the match that was booked and made Punk quit lol

[Evil Vito]

Listening to his most recent comments post-court and post-fight, he still seems to have no interest whatsoever in wrestling. Not just WWE, but the whole business. "I've been trying to put wrestling behind me for 5 years and have said no so many times and yet people still say, 'so there's a chance?'"

I'll officially be surprised if he shows up at All In.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Honestly, I think the best part of the ordeal was that Punk told HHH to fuck himself. Finally, someone had the balls to stand up to H. I actually like Hunter, but he has killed so much momentum in his time (Punk's included) and by the sounds of it, Punk really hurt his feelings lol

[xrodmuc316]

Honestly, I think the best part of the ordeal was that Punk told HHH to fuck himself. Finally, someone had the balls to stand up to H. I actually like Hunter, but he has killed so much momentum in his time (Punk's included) and by the sounds of it, Punk really hurt his feelings lol

Triple H has redeemed himself somewhat with NXT, but not anywhere near the damage he did burying people for 20+ years.

I still believe part of the reason they put Daniel Bryan over at Wrestlemania 30 was just to show Punk up. The fact that its what the fans wanted would not have accomplished that alone, as evident by Roman the last 4 years.

[Fignuts]

Booker T at wm 19 was a big one. By itself hhh going over isn't so bad. But if they were going to bring race into it then booker should of won. Mania is supposed to be the show that sends the crowd home happy. But here you have a racist character going over clean on a black guy lol. Fucking awful.

[Bad News Gertner]

Cutting the legs off Eugene for no other reason than Eugene was really getting over is HHH's most egregious act

[Emperor Smeat]

Booker T at wm 19 was a big one. By itself hhh going over isn't so bad. But if they were going to bring race into it then booker should of won. Mania is supposed to be the show that sends the crowd home happy. But here you have a racist character going over clean on a black guy lol. Fucking awful.

Just as bad was how Triple H won since there was such a long delay from his Pedigree to the actual pinfall. Made Booker look even weaker as a threat in the end.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

my favourite thing is Bruce Prichard trying to say it wasn't a race thing, but it was a "WCW" thing. Fuck that's an entertaining podcast for all the wrong reasons.

[#1-norm-fan]

That was another good example of Conrad relentlessly calling Bruce out on his bullshit.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

But I mean - it's obviously by design. Bruce does it to be "entertaining", so it bothers me that I enjoy it at all lol

[#1-norm-fan]

I'm not so sure. I get the feeling Bruce either 100% believes his bullshit or his lips are just surgically attached to Triple H/Vince's ass.

[KIRA]

my favourite thing is Bruce Prichard trying to say it wasn't a race thing, but it was a "WCW" thing. Fuck that's an entertaining podcast for all the wrong reasons.

You know for a guy who claimed that he was going to be the guy to say all the stuff the front office didn't want him to say he sure is saying all the stuff the front office would say.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

But I mean - it's obviously by design. Bruce does it to be "entertaining", so it bothers me that I enjoy it at all lol

Living the gimmick Mr. Dastardly.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

You know for a guy who claimed that he was going to be the guy to say all the stuff the front office didn't want him to say he sure is saying all the stuff the front office would say.

the funny thing is he has a legion of marks believing his word to be gospel. i guess he is brother love.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I have no clue how Prichard got so many people on side.

[Stickman]

I think CM Punk made himself irrelevant with that fight. He left the WWE a former multiple time champion and goes and embarrassed himself in a real fight so now nobody can take him seriously. We all know that wwe is fake but there’s still that aspect of believing these guys are tough. He’s a skinny fat non athletic prick and by him proving he can’t fight, how can you take him seriously in a wrestling ring?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I have no clue how Prichard got so many people on side.

he's a worker. Conrad said it best on Sam Roberts' podcast (though in reference to Bischoff lying lol): the George Costanza adage of "its not a lie if you believe it".

And remember, this is a guy indoctrinated in WWF/E bullshit and McMahonisms.

[Bad News Gertner]

I have no clue how Prichard got so many people on side.

There's a lot of people who think just because he was part of the office that he's not full of shit and don't actually dig into the shit he's saying.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It's kind of funny. Cuz the fact that he worked in the office should make him less reliable and ruin his credibility.

[xrodmuc316]

Just as bad was how Triple H won since there was such a long delay from his Pedigree to the actual pinfall. Made Booker look even weaker as a threat in the end.

Yeah that was horrible on top of the awful idea on not putting Booker over in the first place.

I discussed a few weeks ago how HHH killed Randy Ortons momentum like 5 different times in his career.

Going over Sting was dumb.

Him beating Sheamus at Mania was dumb, especially since it seems like Sheamus was pushed cause HHH liked him, but then HHH has to go over him cause why the help not.

Him beating Lesnar at Wrestlemania is still crazy. Taker, Roman, Ambrose, and Goldberg all out Lesnar over at Mania, but not Trips.

CM Punk in 2011 was white hot, more over than anybody since 2005 Batista and Cena, but HHH beats him right at the height of all that.

As much as Jinder's push was forced hard, even in his home country of India, he STILL had to let HHH go over lol.

The level of burying people by HHH is legendary.

[Mr. Nerfect]

There's a lot of people who think just because he was part of the office that he's not full of shit and don't actually dig into the shit he's saying.

Yeah, that’s true. Only the “he was there” angle only works up to the point someone is honest.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I also don't think Bruce understands investigative journalism.

[Mr. Nerfect]

His gripes with Meltzer implies not.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Interesting discussion between Dale and Destor earlier in the thread re: Punk's credibility in WWE. Ultimately, I think Dale is right. The top guys just don't seem to be as savvy as the top guys of yesteryear. Orton has no problems doing jobs for Jinder Mahal; Roman Reigns has no problem doing jobs for The Miz, etc. The only guy who really protects his star these days is Brock, but he's a Heyman guy, so him selling for Punk doesn't seem entirely out of the realm of possibility. They'll just spin it so that they make them seem like different animals, or that CM Punk actually took a dive in order to get out of his UFC deal to go back to wrestling or whatever. Lower standards for himself so he can swoop back into posiiton instead of everyone being on guard.

I do think that Punk will end up back in wrestling, and I think his pride will, to a point, take him places other than WWE for a while. He can basically call his shots, because the business is so desperate to have him back. I'd like to imagine New Japan would take themselves more seriously as wrestling, but I think they'd just try to work things out like I suggested above. I can easily imagine Jericho cutting promos on Punk "turning to shit in his old age" and Punk being all "well, how about you give me a shot at that belt, Lionheart?" and them just hoping for the best. Sinclair might break the bank in order to get him to that MSG show for ROH too. At some point he will end up back in the WWE however. He won't need it; they won't need him -- these things just end up happening when there is room for them to make money off each other. I think Punk would get to win a Royal Rumble and main event if he came back. If the crowd loves him, cool; if they hate him, they will work it in. And Punk vs. Triple H will happen at WrestleMania at some point too. Either that or Trips & Steph vs. Punk & AJ Lee with Lee getting to cut promos about Steph taking credit for the women's revolution.

[Big Vic]

<table class="tborder" width="100%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="6" border="0" align="center"><tbody id="collapseobj_usercp_reputation"><tr><td class="alt2">http://www.tpwwforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif</td> <td class="alt1Active" width="50%"> CM Punk :( (http://www.tpwwforums.com/showthread.php?p=5132325#post5132325) </td> <td class="alt2" nowrap="nowrap">06-14-2018 07:32 PM</td> <td class="alt1" nowrap="nowrap"> Noid (http://www.tpwwforums.com/member.php?u=266) </td> <td class="alt2" width="50%">Ew</td> </tr><tr> <td class="alt2">http://www.tpwwforums.com/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif</td> <td class="alt1Active" width="50%"> CM Punk :( (http://www.tpwwforums.com/showthread.php?p=5132325#post5132325) </td> <td class="alt2" nowrap="nowrap">06-14-2018 04:57 PM</td> <td class="alt1" nowrap="nowrap"> SlickyTrickyDamon (http://www.tpwwforums.com/member.php?u=14383) </td> <td class="alt2" width="50%">---------------</td></tr></tbody></table>


Cornette sheep,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[#1-norm-fan]

Cornette is fan-fucking-tastic. Very deserved red dots.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

There's a lot of people who think he's too negative. But that's his brand. You have to accept Corny for who he is, and he's great. Dude is a fucking history prof, storytelling prof and a business prof wrapped into one. Of course he's a bit "out of touch" but that's part of his charm.

[#1-norm-fan]

I don't think he's negative enough.

[LibSuperstar]

I don't think he's negative enough.

First time I've heard this but he's straight gold for the reasons Dastardly gave.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Cornette is a genius. Wrestling would be a million times better if people actually listened to him and didn't write him off because they're fucking morons. I can understand people subjectively not liking him, because people have different tastes and what have you, but the idea that he's got nothing to offer wrestling or whatever is just so fucking goofy.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

You just need to pair him with someone like Jimmy Jacobs, but who also has patience and understands Corny is a spazz.

[Bad News Gertner]

I'll always give Cornette this: he might have different opinions of wrestling, but he's as honest as they come. You can't say that about the vast, vast majority.

[Maluco]

He is definitely honest, I agree, that has to be respected in a business with so little of it.

I have said before, he has his failing and seems extremely volatile to work with, but I would much much prefer to be watching a Cornette booked promotion than the current stuff.

He wouldnt forget what a heel, a face or a decent feud is supposed to be. There would be a few ridiculous things, sure, but there would definitely be enough to buy into

[#1-norm-fan]

For all the "he's stuck in the past" people throw at Cornette, most of the shit he talks about comes down to basica logical storytelling. That shit is timeless. At it's core, it doesn't change. Cornette understands the basics.

[Vastardikai]

Amusingly, wasn't he more or less "ahead of his time" on some of his ideas for ROH?

[Emperor Smeat]

Yeah. His biggest problem has always been his brash personality which is why he usually didn't stick around for long wherever he went or in certain roles.

He had some great ideas for ROH and certain wrestlers but meant nothing at the time because he was too much of a headache to work with due to his constant complaining and arguing. Even WWE had their limits when it came to dealing with his personality.

[Bad News Gertner]

Cornette can be a pain, but some of the gripes he had in ROH sounded pretty reasonable (Corino getting injured with no medical staff or management present)

[Mr. Nerfect]

For all the "he's stuck in the past" people throw at Cornette, most of the shit he talks about comes down to basica logical storytelling. That shit is timeless. At it's core, it doesn't change. Cornette understands the basics.

Thank you. This 100%. Cornette's like one of the few people that hasn't forgotten what wrestling is at its core. It's hard to find something he is actually "wrong" about.

There's so much internet straw-man "he wants everything to be a chinlock" bullshit that flies around about the guy, and it's like "Do you actually listen to him? His wet dream match is Seth Rollins vs. Davey Richards."

The thing that most frustrates him about modern wrestling -- besides it being a joke -- seems to be something that irks me too. Shows have terrible structure, everybody does the same shit, and everybody tries to cram all their shit into each and every match.

Ironically, everybody seems to get along better in the business and everyone is awesome, etc., but guys are actually more selfish in how they desperately try to get themselves over with every appearance instead of just going out there and being part of the under-card in a healthy way. If everybody is "over" then who really stands out? Cornette actually sees the business holistically and from a perspective that is bigger than "my match." He sees a card, a promotion and an industry and how everybody going out there and doing Seth Rollins vs. Davey Richards means that by the time you get to Seth Rollins vs. Davey Richards, they feel like a knockoff of their own act.

I spent my hard-earned money on an EVOLVE show and the first three matches were all "let's kick out of finishers" and it got exhausting. I turned it off and I never went back. That's the equivalent to walking out on a show.

The modern criticisms of Cornette seem to come from that involvement in ROH, where he wanted things to slow down creating friction between him, the boys and therefore the audience, who the boys treated as the boys. ROH had that same sense of ownership that the fans in ECW had with Heyman. It's great for building up a rabid bunch of loyalist fans, but they get very territorial with their shit, even if it's trash. I'm not saying ROH was, but there was some stuff that probably should have changed that they can't see, because at the end of the day they are still marks.

Amusingly, wasn't he more or less "ahead of his time" on some of his ideas for ROH?

Yes. Meltzer has credited him for saving the company by helping with the sale to Sinclair too. But his plans for ROH were basically what Triple H and WWE have done with NXT but with Baltimore as a base as opposed to Orlando.

He tells a hilarious story about how fans on the internet were shitting on the creative direction, so he took himself off TV or whatever by having someone beat him up, and they announced that he was gone or whatever, but they did the same stuff they always did and the fans were like "This is great without Cornette!"

And a lot of the stuff Cornette gets criticized about preventing in ROH is no longer en vogue. Hardcore wrestling and the "too much" style is starting to lose its appeal, because of medical knowledge, social change, and it generally being a hot-shotting tactic. A lot of the myths about ECW are getting busted and that "cool aesthetic" that people were chasing for a long time has been replaced with more sensible stuff. Well, that might be confirmation bias on my part, because I only frequent places on the internet I want to, haha. But I heard someone say that SMW holds up better than ECW does, and there's probably a lot of truth to that, because ECW was very much of a product of its time trying to tap into a zeitgeist instead of being, at its core, good pro-wrestling.

He was the mind ROH needed but didn't deserve. In my opinion. I'm not super-familiar with the time period, and I remember ROH feeling "colder" than it did when Joe was killing people all over the place -- but not as cold as it does now. I heard they were doing a concept called Defy or Deny recently, which was an elimination match where the champion faces three guys and the winner either gets a title shot if they're a challenger, or the last guy the champion beats is denied a title shot while they are still champion. I absolutely hate this idea. I looked it up to see when it started, and it does come from the time Cornette was still with the company, but I can't find any confirmation on whether or not he was behind it. It sounds like a name he would come up with. But if that's him, I'd criticize him for having a guy outlast two guys and then get denied a title shot as much as I would TNA for firing the winners of matches. It's not as ridiculous, but it's still in that realm.

But yeah, Cornette was right about ROH needing Sinclair and needing to clean up. Also, philosophically, he was probably able to see the inner-workings of things a lot clearer than the marks who don't think they are marks but actually really are and resent being worked because it "insults their intelligence."

Cornette can be a pain, but some of the gripes he had in ROH sounded pretty reasonable (Corino getting injured with no medical staff or management present)

It sounded like a lot of stress. From his side, it sounds like he was between this rock and a hard place of business decisions that were baffling to him as a wrestling promoter, and the boys who didn't have developed minds for what is really going on. You've got higher-ups who are running a shit show, and talent that are crying because it's not enough of a shit show.

When he flies into a real rant about how much he hates someone, you can sometimes feel passion crossover into venom, but for some reason being yelled at has never bothered me. In the little bit of entertainment work I have done, I've worked with some people who yell at people and chew them out all the time. My attitude has always been "Sure, Jim. What would you have me do?". For example. It always works. Always. At the end of the night they've always either apologized for losing it in the pressure cooker or given me kudos for holding in there the way they asked me to and there is a time and a place to hash that shit out.

From what I've heard of the talent that have done shoots on Cornette's time in ROH -- they just remind me of the kids in school who would fall apart if they were yelled at, or roll their eyes as they are being yelled at or yell back like they're going to come out with what they want. And I guess some people just don't deal with that teaching style, and but it does go to that teacher/student dynamic. Effective teachers are able to adapt to a student's needs, but a good student learns how to extract knowledge from a teacher.

I haven't heard Kevin Owens' whole shoot on Cornette or whatever, but he sounds dumb to that process. I'm sure I've heard him say something like Cornette would yell and scream at him and then say "Now I'm going to go out there and put you over," and he acted like that was baffling. It's doing your job, lol. And a lot of his comments sound like that shade "he was so angry" and "I'm a cool guy and I wanted to change the industry and the fans were with me but Cornette wouldn't let me do whatever I wanted. And that's out of date. You got to let me do whatever I want." And it would be frustrating if your champion was pushing for his best friend to headline a PPV against him, but that best friend was still refusing to sign their contract.

Cornette tries to run things like a promoter or a booker that was actually in charge. ROH wanted to operate like it was by the boys for the boys.

[Mr. Nerfect]

OVW was still so superior to NXT when it came to creating talent too. Triple H took over developmental in 2011. Cornette wasn't in developmental for 7 years. A lot of that is Jim Ross' eye for talent. But they found and polished up a lot of guys, and the best NXT has done is Charlotte Flair.

[Bad News Gertner]

Cornette is like Heyman: if he's going to be involved creatively in a company it has to be his company.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, I think that's true.

[Bad News Gertner]

Every other time it wasnt , they crashed and burned: Cornette in WCW, WWF, ROH, TNA. Heyman in WWF, and OVW.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Yeah, they can't play nice with others.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They can't play with someone over them impacting their vision. I think Cornette could exist with JR and similar people. Heyman worked well with Dave Lagana and could probably have stooges that worship his brilliance to type up scripts for him. But it's those relationships that challenge philosophies that they just can't exist around.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I wish there were more shoot interviews with Heyman. I love hearing him talk about the creative processes in WWE. His story about the conference call on Austin's podcast is fantastic.

I want to hear more from him about ECW in 2006. I remember being heart-broken as a fan, and for the guy. He was out there and just falling apart at December to Dismember.

[Bad News Gertner]

They can't play with someone over them impacting their vision. I think Cornette could exist with JR and similar people. Heyman worked well with Dave Lagana and could probably have stooges that worship his brilliance to type up scripts for him. But it's those relationships that challenge philosophies that they just can't exist around.

If it isn't their company then it isn't their vision at the end of the day.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

also, if you think Paul Heyman would do anything but lie as much as Bruce Prichard in a shoot, you are desperately naive.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

If it isn't their company then it isn't their vision at the end of the day.

The impetus is to find a way to meld your vision into the company's vision to the benefit of your career and the company's end game. But you can't go into a company and "play by your rules". You have to respect their culture and way of doing things, no matter how backwards you may think it is. Once you've carved your niche in the company, and the boss trusts you, you'll get more freedom. But if you're combative from day one (or even day 100), you're fucking yourself over.

[Bad News Gertner]

And they've never shown that they can do that for more than 2 years. 2 years seems like their shelf life in a company I'm terms of creative.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The impetus is to find a way to meld your vision into the company's vision to the benefit of your career and the company's end game. But you can't go into a company and "play by your rules". You have to respect their culture and way of doing things, no matter how backwards you may think it is. Once you've carved your niche in the company, and the boss trusts you, you'll get more freedom. But if you're combative from day one (or even day 100), you're fucking yourself over.

Was either guy combative from day one? Cornette seems to have lasted quite a little while and got himself quite trusted by Vince.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

or even day 100 may have worked well as even day 1000. You still have to respect your environment and work within the system.... especially when it's a Monopoly.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Well, only if you want to be there. Some people have no problem deciding that they don't want to play that game and would rather leave than compromise. I'd put both Cornette and Heyman into that group.