Can we ever be happy?

[The One]

I just don't know anymore. Believe it or not Vince & Co's jopb is to make us happy. So what do they do? What we tell them too. And what do we (the wrestling fans do) bitch about it. Let me reflect if I may to a time that alot of us so called Smarts reflect on as a "Great Time in Wrestling"...1999...it is with this attitude that I give us a then an now on what we bitch about.

THEN
The Rock sucks! He has 5 moves! I say the Wrestling World would be better if The Rock never touched a ring again

NOW
WWE needs The Rock right now. He is a big name star that can bring in the ratings and put on good matches. If I were Vince I would beg Rocky to come back full time.

THEN
The titles have no meaning anymore. Remember back in the "Golden Days" (early 90's) when people would hold the title belt for months or even YEARS...that would be GREAT!

NOW
DAMN YOU VINCE! DAMN YOU TRIPLE H! Seriously if I see Triple H hold the title even one month longer I will kill someone...I mean he has had it for like 5 months already!

THEN
WWF sucks because there is no focus on wrestling. Everything is story line. Guys like Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Kurt Angle...all of them should be Main Eventers cause they put on good matches.

NOW
There isn't any story lines anymore. People are just thrown into matches that don't make sense. And there arn't people who can move the crowds with mic skills anymore.

THEN
De-mask KANE!

NOW
Put the mask back on KANE!

THEN
It's always the same 20 guys in all the matches, find a way to show case more talent...

NOW
This brand split is terrible. I miss when I could see the top 20 guys on EVERY show.

I am sorry if this come across as me bitch, it wasn't meant to be a complaint...more so a question. Is there anything in the past decade or so that has made us all happy...from Title runs, to personas changing, to turns, to angle, it seems everyone always has a complaint about something...

Latly it seems that everyone is focused on "SmackDown not being good" or whatever it is. I think SmackDown is doing great. All the angles they are working on seem to be workig fine, crowd reaction is good, and while popularity as a whole is down, that is to be expected in wrestling. These ideas of how to "Fix SmackDown" are nothing more then angles you would like to see. Sure we all have angles in our mind we would like to see happen, but sometimes we don't get them...hey I never got my Billy Gunn vs. Jeff Jarrett angle that I wanted, nor did I get my Raven fued with Rock...but the fact is, if we become obsesed with this angles and story lines then nothing Vince gives us will be good enough. Example. Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero seems to be what alot of people want. But what about the angle they are doing right now with JBL and Guerrero....I think it is great and drawing good heat too.

Anyway I am side tracking from my original idea...is there anything that the WWe or any comapny can do that would make us all happy? Honestly? Or can you remember a time when WWE did something that everyone just loved?

[The Show Off]

I just don't know anymore. Believe it or not Vince & Co's jopb is to make us happy. So what do they do? What we tell them too. And what do we (the wrestling fans do) bitch about it. Let me reflect if I may to a time that alot of us so called Smarts reflect on as a "Great Time in Wrestling"...1999...it is with this attitude that I give us a then an now on what we bitch about.

THEN
The Rock sucks! He has 5 moves! I say the Wrestling World would be better if The Rock never touched a ring again

NOW
WWE needs The Rock right now. He is a big name star that can bring in the ratings and put on good matches. If I were Vince I would beg Rocky to come back full time.

THEN
The titles have no meaning anymore. Remember back in the "Golden Days" (early 90's) when people would hold the title belt for months or even YEARS...that would be GREAT!

[/b]NOW[/b]
DAMN YOU VINCE! DAMN YOU TRIPLE H! Seriously if I see Triple H hold the title even one month longer I will kill someone...I mean he has had it for like 5 months already!

THEN
WWF sucks because there is no focus on wrestling. Everything is story line. Guys like Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Kurt Angle...all of them should be Main Eventers cause they put on good matches.

NOW
There isn't any story lines anymore. People are just thrown into matches that don't make sense. And there arn't people who can move the crowds with mic skills anymore.

THEN
De-mask KANE!

[/b]NOW[/b]
Put the mask back on KANE!

THEN
It's always the same 20 guys in all the matches, find a way to show case more talent...

NOW
This brand split is terrible. I miss when I could see the top 20 guys on EVERY show.

I am sorry if this come across as me bitch, it wasn't meant to be a complaint...more so a question. Is there anything in the past decade or so that has made us all happy...from Title runs, to personas changing, to turns, to angle, it seems everyone always has a complaint about something...

Latly it seems that everyone is focused on "SmackDown not being good" or whatever it is. I think SmackDown is doing great. All the angles they are working on seem to be workig fine, crowd reaction is good, and while popularity as a whole is down, that is to be expected in wrestling. These ideas of how to "Fix SmackDown" are nothing more then angles you would like to see. Sure we all have angles in our mind we would like to see happen, but sometimes we don't get them...hey I never got my Billy Gunn vs. Jeff Jarrett angle that I wanted, nor did I get my Raven fued with Rock...but the fact is, if we become obsesed with this angles and story lines then nothing Vince gives us will be good enough. Example. Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero seems to be what alot of people want. But what about the angle they are doing right now with JBL and Guerrero....I think it is great and drawing good heat too.

Anyway I am side tracking from my original idea...is there anything that the WWe or any comapny can do that would make us all happy? Honestly? Or can you remember a time when WWE did something that everyone just loved?

:y:
Bravo!

Now
It'd be awesome if Bret Hart would come back to the WWE and makie an appearence and possibly be a manager

After Bret Returns
I'm sick of Bret Hart hogging the lime light, he's just overshadowing up and comming talent, he needs to go...


Just watch it happen.

[Xero]

Then
Undertaker rules! I love the Ministry gimmick!

Fast forward a bit, after first return
EWWW! ABA MY ASS! GO BACK DEAD MAN!

Now
Undertaker is the deadman again... ITS NOT THE DEADMAN! GO BACK DEADMAN!

A few months down the road
Undertaker is back Ministry... THIS MINISTRY SUCKS!

:nono:

[Nowhere Man]

The One's definitely got a point. Most of us aren't happy unless we're pissed off about something. I can almost see why a lot of wrestlers hate us. Still, you can't look at about half of the stuff on WWE programming (especially Smackdown) and tell me things aren't amiss.

[El Santo]

In the immortal words of Oscar the Grouch, "When I'm angry, I'm happy... and when I'm happy I'm angry, and when I'm ... You know, I'm a mess."

[Gerard]

Can please some of the people all of the time, but not wwe fans. :lol:

[CYCLOPTERSAURUS]

THEN
The Rock sucks! He has 5 moves! I say the Wrestling World would be better if The Rock never touched a ring again -I never said that exactly, but he is a stale character that throws out the same damned catchphrases over and over again. I've felt this way since he appeared in wrestling.

NOW
WWE needs The Rock right now. He is a big name star that can bring in the ratings and put on good matches. If I were Vince I would beg Rocky to come back full time.

THEN
The titles have no meaning anymore. Remember back in the "Golden Days" (early 90's) when people would hold the title belt for months or even YEARS...that would be GREAT!

NOW
DAMN YOU VINCE! DAMN YOU TRIPLE H! Seriously if I see Triple H hold the title even one month longer I will kill someone...I mean he has had it for like 5 months already! -I think people are complaining about Triple H, not the belts. However, I never complained about the "golden days", but wouldn't mind if a great total package wrestler like Eddie were to hold the title for a long time.

THEN
WWF sucks because there is no focus on wrestling. Everything is story line. Guys like Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Kurt Angle...all of them should be Main Eventers cause they put on good matches. -I'm happy that we have Eddie and Benoit champions, but that's only a start. We get Lance Storm retiring, Jericho hovering around in the mid-cards, and the cruiserweight division in the toilet. I don't know of anybody that complained that there's too much wrestling and not enough story.

NOW
There isn't any story lines anymore. People are just thrown into matches that don't make sense. And there arn't people who can move the crowds with mic skills anymore.

THEN
De-mask KANE!

NOW
Put the mask back on KANE!

-I didn't want him de-masked, but I think it would be stupid to put it back on for no reason. How about instead, they just stop treating him like garbage and build him up as a monster and NOT have him beaten up by Vince Mcmahon's son.

THEN
It's always the same 20 guys in all the matches, find a way to show case more talent... -I like the roster split, always have been in favor of it, and can't speak for people that want it to end.

NOW
This brand split is terrible. I miss when I could see the top 20 guys on EVERY show.


I've always kept a steadfast opinion on all of this stuff. As far as I know, it's just a different group of people complaining when stuff doesn't go their way. The people who are getting their way have no reason to complain. However, if you are somebody that changed your opinion like this, f</>uck you, no wonder Vince doesn't trust the fans. Complain when you KNOW there is a problem.

[Mayo]

THEN

There are so few titles in the WWE, we should bring in more so that guys in the midcard could feud for a title and get credibility.

NOW

There are too many titles, especially with two wrestling shows. The title means nothing these days since everyone has a title. Get rid of these excess titles.


THEN

I really like this JBL character. He is quite funny, his stupid smirk is hilarious, and his real-life persona is linked to his wrestling persona.

NOW

He can't wrestle, he puts me to sleep, and he's taking over Hitler's regime. Throw the fucker in jail.

:lol:

Yeah, on a serious note, people want change in wrestling. Nobody wants to see the same thing week in and week out, for years. Wrestlers have to adapt and be creative with their promos, because 'What? What? WHAT?' and "I'm gonna take my boot, turn it sideways, and stick is straight up your candy ass" gets boring after a while. Vince has to change the guys in the main event scene every once in a while, I mean we can't see HHH and HBK fighting all the time! (Oh wait, thats happening again soon :shifty: )

People can never be happy, thats just the way it is. You just have to ride the popularity of something when its hot, and change it up when it's not. John Cena is a good example. His raps are starting to get annoying, and soon enough hes going to have to become more multi-dimensional rather than being so generic all the time.

[Wondermouse]

I pretty much disagree with your whole post. Nearly everything you present is an extreme; IE, from the title being hotshotted to Triple H nearly holding onto it for about 3 years or, everything being storyline driven to nearly no buildup for a World Title match.

There's a happy place in the middle.

[Mayo]

I pretty much disagree with your whole post. Nearly everything you present is an extreme; IE, from the title being hotshotted to Triple H nearly holding onto it for about 3 years or, everything being storyline driven to nearly no buildup for a World Title match.

There's a happy place in the middle.

Were you talking to me Wondermouse? From the HHH statement you made, I take it you weren't, but I could be wrong.

[Wondermouse]

Were you talking to me Wondermouse? From the HHH statement you made, I take it you weren't, but I could be wrong.
No.

[MVP]

Let's just agree that we'll never be satisfied and leave it at that.

[Corkscrewed]

You'd think The One made a great point... except that he still generalized just about each case. Then we wanted something, and then it happened, but not in the way that was best. Thus, we are still unhappy.

Basically, The One used the "what" to make his point, but he forgot about the "how," which is a vital factor that people usually ignore when trying to simplify cases and offer easy results.

That, then, is the catch.



On the other hand, we'll always have something to complain about... because the WWE will never be perfect, which is fine. It's just that we'd like to have it be as close as possible, or at least try to be.

[big_bluto]

I was gonna do a new thread on this, and I probably will, but in answer to the points raised above.......


I think it's important to remember the impact that the internet has as a communication tool.

Think back to 10 or 15 years ago.....
Wrestling fans either got together in peoples houses, in bars, at work or school and talked about what was going on.
Very little 'behind the scenes' stuff was known nationally or internationally, because there wasn't the ability to communicate it.
Can you imagine how long it would take then to hear about JBL pulling Nazi salutes in Germany?

Nowadays, there is this instant communication tool where people can access live information instantly, and this means that Joe from Hicksville, Alabama can post a rumour he heard about Vince McMahon going into Sheep Farming.
10 or 15 years ago no-one outside of Alabama would ever hear of it within a week, and no-one outside the US would hear of it outside of a month, unless it was deemed worthy to be reported in the US national press.

So nowadays Joe from Alabama posts something about V Mac.
John in Canada reads it 1 minute later, as does James in England, Hans in Germany, and Fujiyama in Japan. Discussion ensues.

Now then, here's the rub.

It's very hard to keep secrets nowadays.
Every bit of information is scrutinised internationally, subject to debate, and is talked about by the fans in much greater depth than it was 10 or 15 years ago.
Fans are better informed than they ever have been, they know more about the workings of the WWE now than they ever have, so when something happens that they don't agree with, they are entitled to talk about it.

Bear in mind that everything posted on this site is opinion, and as such is influenced by personal taste and bias.
Personally I would love to see RVD take the title on Smackdown. That's a personal taste thing.
If RVD was on RAW, I would say not to give him the title, because on RAW it wouldn't be believable enough for me. That's opinion.

It's important to try and distinguish the difference between opinion, desire and creativity.

And yes, sometimes we do bash the WWE.
However, as fans first and foremost, it is our right.
After all - we're the customers.

[#1-norm-fan]

You are my hero. :love:

I do think alot of the "then" stuff was said by different people than the "now" stuff but you've basically got the same idea as me. Makes ya think... maybe Vince knows what's good for us than we do.

Also... Triple H as champ was good times. :y:

[Rock Bottom]

lol at The Rock being stale

[Londoner]

I laughed at that comment about the rock being stale also, funny really but i do agree with the starter of this thread in some ways i mean here's an example:

THEN:
The World Heavyweight Title should be on a fighting champion like Chris Benoit

NOW(literally the day after wrestlemania aswell)
Chris Benoit does not draw, he's too stale.

But ofcourse you have to take into account that not everybody has the same opinion as yourself or someone else.

[Wondermouse]

ThugLife brings up a very good point. A lot of these THEN and NOW arguments do not come from the same people at all. I find that most people prefer Kane without the mask, for example.

[loopydate]

A lot of these THEN and NOW arguments do not come from the same people at all. I find that most people prefer Kane without the mask, for example.

Yep. Personally, I'm glad that Rock takes off months at a time, because it makes it a bigger deal when he comes back; I'm loving Orton's longest IC Title reign in seven years; I'd much rather watch good wrestling than good storylines, but if they're going to keep giving me storylines, at least make them good; I love de-masked Kane; without the brand split, we never would have gotten John Cena, Randy Orton, or Rene Dupree's pushes.

I have remained steadfast about these opinions all along, and there are people who have believed the exact opposite all along.

Look at it this way. People complained about Clinton being a liar when he was President. People complain about Bush being a liar (and a thief and an overall disingenuous bastard) now. By the logic at the start of this thread, people won't be happy no matter who their President is. That's not so. From '92-'00, the Clinton detractors were primarily Republicans. Now, the Bush detractors are Democrats (and a lot of independents and quite a few Republicans). The arguments remain, but they're not being made by the same people.

[The One]

Yep. Personally, I'm glad that Rock takes off months at a time, because it makes it a bigger deal when he comes back; I'm loving Orton's longest IC Title reign in seven years; I'd much rather watch good wrestling than good storylines, but if they're going to keep giving me storylines, at least make them good; I love de-masked Kane; without the brand split, we never would have gotten John Cena, Randy Orton, or Rene Dupree's pushes.

I have remained steadfast about these opinions all along, and there are people who have believed the exact opposite all along.

Look at it this way. People complained about Clinton being a liar when he was President. People complain about Bush being a liar (and a thief and an overall disingenuous bastard) now. By the logic at the start of this thread, people won't be happy no matter who their President is. That's not so. From '92-'00, the Clinton detractors were primarily Republicans. Now, the Bush detractors are Democrats (and a lot of independents and quite a few Republicans). The arguments remain, but they're not being made by the same people.

Vote Bush! 4 MORE YEARS!

now that we have that out of the way...

My point is this...back in 1999 we bitched about everything we cound find (99 being about the time internet became over and was used for wrestling) but now in 2004 we look back and talk about how brillent everyone was back then. But yet back then we had nothing but bad things to talk about, and back in 99 we talked about how great the "Golden Days" where...now we talk about how great the Attitude ear was...I guess more then anything I am looking forward to the day when (in the not too distant future) we talk about how great it was having JBL and Triple H in the main event scene and we didn't have to see these same boring drawn out Rob Conway and Shane Hemls main events....mark my words!

oh yeah and....VOTE BUSH! :)

[Nowhere Man]

....10 or 15 years ago no-one outside of Alabama would ever hear of it within a week....

Yeah, because God knows people in Alabama don't have phones or TV.

[loopydate]

Vote Kerry!

now that we have that out of the way...

My point is this...back in 1999 we bitched about everything we cound find (99 being about the time internet became over and was used for wrestling) but now in 2004 we look back and talk about how brillent everyone was back then. But yet back then we had nothing but bad things to talk about, and back in 99 we talked about how great the "Golden Days" where...now we talk about how great the Attitude ear was...I guess more then anything I am looking forward to the day when (in the not too distant future) we talk about how great it was having JBL and Triple H in the main event scene and we didn't have to see these same boring drawn out Rob Conway and Shane Hemls main events....mark my words!

oh yeah and....VOTE KERRY! :)
Honestly, I don't miss the Attitude era. I hated Austin, and DX after HBK's retirement bored me.


And I don't mind Triple H in the main event. If he'd just put on more performances like Wrestlemania (good matches where he isn't afraid to lose), I'd like him even more.


And as much as I like JBL's character, he's been pushed way too far. He amuses me, but I don't take him seriously as a WWE Title contender.


I liked Virgil back in the day, but it didn't mean I wanted him fighting Hogan.


Besides, Conway and Helms can wrestle. JBL can't, and HHH doesn't seem to want to very often.

[big_bluto]

Yeah, because God knows people in Alabama don't have phones or TV.
I'm not suggesting that people in Alabama are backwards or anything.
The point I'm making is that information would have moved very slowly in comparison to today.
Unless a rumour, such as Pall Bearer having his gall bladder removed, was picked up as a national piece, then it may only have been people in one local area that found out about it immediately.
Nowadays, the world knows.