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View Full Version : The Naitch presents...PROFESSOR JINDRAK'S LAB: Serious wrestling discussion


The Naitch
06-26-2004, 10:53 PM
http://www.tpww.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1653

DISCUSSION: As the NEW Heyman of the wrestling boards world, I, Jindrak The Professor, has graced you with my naked presence to discuss some serious issues in the world of professional wrestling or "Sports-Entertainment" as it is sometimes referred to as.

Our first topic will be about how wrestling is perceived among non-wrestling fans and how we wrestling fans adapt to this situation.

Analogy: Wrestling is a very strange and weird thing to the normal population. Sweaty grown men touching eachother in a very physical and almost homo-erotic fashion (ie Own Hart's piledriver to Austin that almost broke his neck) Not saying we're not normal. It's just that THEY do not understand it. We wish they should and yes, sometimes the "normal" person may find wrestling cool sometimes (ie The Rock back in 2000). But today, wrestling is on a downfall. It will rise soon enough, which leads to my next topic....

When will wrestling become POPULAR again?

Conclusion: It will eventually become popular again. It's just that Vince doesn't know what cool is. He thinks a RAW DIVA CONTEST is fuckin' cool! Give me a break. A lot of things will turn off the "casual fan". The list goes on.

Mr. JL
06-26-2004, 11:06 PM
I think what is happening right now is the regular die hard wrestling fans are starting to tune themsleves out from WWE TV. The WWE keeps trying to grab the mainstream media's attention and make wrestling cool to the casual fan that its actually losing its die hard fans that have always been around.

I can see why Vince thinks a RAW DIVA CONTEST is cool because every other reality TV show and any other bullshit TV show is doing it and getting huge ratings for it. So Vince thinks he'll try it out to attract that attention but I don't think he will be successful.

I just think the WWE should stop trying to appease and grab the casual fans attention. They should focus more on what the regular wrestling fans want. Thats how wrestling became popular again with Austin. They gave the regular fans what they wanted and then the casual fans eventually started to tune in.

Bottom line is that wrestling has always been for the wrestling fan... I just think the WWE is no longer focusing on the wrestling fan anymore and more focus is being put on the casual fans. Thats what I think the problem is. Wrestling will become popular when the WWE realizes they should focus on the wrestling fan and not the casual fan.

The Naitch
06-26-2004, 11:27 PM
Fans wanted Benoit and Eddie to be champs and they did it. But IMO, they aren't big enough draws like Austin or Rock.

The problem lies in something different.

WWE needs to reinvent themselves drastically and create a new concept. The owner vs wrestler angle was great back in the Attitude era, but now it's meh.

Ruthless Aggression isn't cutting it either.

Ideas?

The Naitch
06-26-2004, 11:31 PM
I figure they should make RAW more adult. Push it.

And keep SD viewer friendly.

But it's much more complicated than that, obviously

jindrak
06-26-2004, 11:44 PM
WOW, you went all out didn't you...

Anyways, I was hoping this would be acknowledged in in the thread I started...

During the Monday Night Wars, Raw and Nitro usually garnered around a 10 in the Nielsons. Now, with no Nitro around, Raw is only managing to get high 3's.

THE SOLUTION- Get the mark back in wrestling!!! Everyone here is typically a person that watches wrestling, regardless if it sucks of not. However, the casual fan is the person that has to be drawn in and held on to. Heck, we all started out as marks. Gradually, mainly through the dirtshirts, we became educated about the business, and thus appreciate for wrestling for more than it actually appeared to be. We want certain wrestlers to be pushed because we live vicariously through wrestlers, but more importantly we want to be entertained.

Entertainment is the what will hook the casual fan to watch wrestling.

Remember, during the attitude era, the WWE went to great lengths to make its product more "fan friendly", meaning the characters took on another form. Instead of good vs evil, we were presented with shades of GRAY. No longer were wrestling fans insulted and force-fed crappy storylines.

Tell me- what teenage kid with testosterone would not be entertained by an person(s) sticking his middle finger, crotch chopping, cussing, and alluding to sexual innuendo???!!!

What I see now is the WWE marketing the product to kids not old enough to stay up late to watch Raw, and the hungover college students. WWE currrently placates to both those groups with WWE Experience. WWE has always marketed to children, whether they like to admit it or not. This is accomplished through action figures and other forms of mercandishing.

WWE needs that next boom, and with the brand extension that boom the potential to be the greatest Golden Age in pro-wrestlign history. I suggest the WWE go about garnering fan through word of mouth by developing intriguing storylines and using past forumula's or success.

wrestlingking
06-26-2004, 11:47 PM
Hi
this my first ever post on the forums
I think what needs to happen is there needs to be at least one good GM to conflict with Bischoff or Angle. Because it's always the good having to defy odds what about the bad guy being in trouble and it looks like he is going to get his own to squeak by.
Also hopefully TNA can someday become competion on a higher level. The WWE/F Vs WCW brought out the best of everyone and right now its just WWE so for now Vince can just say to the wrestlers/fans if u don't like to bad we're the only game in town.

jindrak
06-27-2004, 12:01 AM
wrestling king-
1) We, at least me, DO NOT WANT TO SEE ANOTHER FIGUREHEAD IN CHARGE. I think it is ridiculousy lame that WWE is going to do a WWE president angle around November (the US pres. elections). Anyways, SCSA was the foilt o Bischoff last year, and while it was fun to watch, I do not want to see it again.

Are you suggesting a face figurehead? Um...WWE has done that. Michaels as commish, Foley, Linda McMahon, Steph (as Smackdown GM), and SCSA.

THIS IS WHAT I WANT- Remember the day when the WWE figurehead came out and it actually meant something?! Gorilla Monsoon was that guy, and I personally feel they should go back to that kind of figurehead in the WWE.

2) TNA will not be a serious competitor to the WWE...unless Turner finances it. Whatever Turner finances will rival WWE, and it doesn't hurt if he gets SCSA, Goldberg, and ex-stars to jump start his promotion.

jindrak
06-27-2004, 12:03 AM
Fans wanted Benoit and Eddie to be champs and they did it. But IMO, they aren't big enough draws like Austin or Rock.

The problem lies in something different.

WWE needs to reinvent themselves drastically and create a new concept. The owner vs wrestler angle was great back in the Attitude era, but now it's meh.

Ruthless Aggression isn't cutting it either.

Ideas?

I have an idea, but its too long to type up and I doubt people would read through my looong term booking plans.

wrestlingking
06-27-2004, 12:26 AM
What I meant to say is to have like a heel gm Raw and face GM Smackdown having 2 heels doesn't give u enough variety but I do agree with ur comment of something that means something back in the days of the Gorilla,Jack Tuney, even Roddy Piper short term stint when Monsoon was hurt

I forgot to comment on the diva contest. As it was not bad enough almost every other channel has reality tv vince had to do this. Also with such good diva talent out there why not sign someone deserving instead of someone who doesn't know a wristlock from a wristwatch.

Mr. JL
06-27-2004, 12:27 AM
Yeah, I would pretty much sum up the problems and put blame on the booking, writing and creative team. But there is not too much we can do about that. I turned off my TV the second I saw Lita with a home pregnancy test and have yet to turn on any WWE TV since. So I think they need to stop creating storylines like this.

I think once I started watching Japanese wrestling and ROH that my opinion on the WWE's style of wrestling has never quite been the same. I'm a wrestling fan. I care not for the entertainment and storylines. So, to me, the only way to fix things would to have great wrestlers battle it out for 45 minutes each night. I know most people don't share the same view as I do so I can understand why there is a need to add comedy in order to grab other peoples interests.

jindrak
06-27-2004, 12:39 AM
I think once I started watching Japanese wrestling and ROH that my opinion on the WWE's style of wrestling has never quite been the same. I'm a wrestling fan. I care not for the entertainment and storylines. So, to me, the only way to fix things would to have great wrestlers battle it out for 45 minutes each night. I know most people don't share the same view as I do so I can understand why there is a need to add comedy in order to grab other peoples interests.

I know of the sentiments you expressed. The mark looks as wrestling as "fake", but why the fuck doesn't the mark also examine other media in that same eye.

Think about it---> Why were people tearful for the Friends finally? It is because people like to LIVE VICARIOUSLY through the characters they see on TV. This explains pro-wrestlings reasoning to inject additional elements to a 'wrestler'. Pro-wrestling has eveloved dramatically, and has revolutionalized itself on several occassins. Basically, wrestling placates to the fans. It is the promoters decision to decide what the fans want, and unfortunately Vince isn't getting it.

I agree with you on the ROH and Japan tapes. Heck, ECW was my haven for watching actual wrestling back in the day. Wrestling will always have wrestlingm otherwise it wouldn't be wrestling. I am sure you may think that previous sentence was stupid, but just think about it.

Mr. JL
06-27-2004, 12:39 AM
I think the Owner, President, GM, Commishioner thing is way over done and has run its course. I think seeing the wrestler go out and create their own feuds and matches would be fresh. Instead of always having to ask the Gm to make a match. Heel GM stacks the odds against face and in favour of the heel is so old and happened on countless occasions. Just let the wrestlers go out and have them build their own feud. No need for a guy to be in charge.

wrestlingking
06-27-2004, 12:40 AM
Oh how could I forget about the current Lita angle. I'll admit when it comes to Lita I'm not so biost I got to meet her and get a picture with her and she was really cool. So I absoultely hate this angle it's got to be one of the worst ever up there with Kaite Vick and Mae Young's Pregnant. The night after bad blood it started out like Lita + Trish were going to have a great feud over the Womens Title but however we later learn that night Lita's pregnant. I was so upset I got online and started complaing to people who never have even watched wrestling about. Hopefully this angle ends ASAP why do I have a fealing Vengeance it's Kane VS Matt Hardy in the first ever baby's daddy match the winner gets the kid.

jindrak
06-27-2004, 12:48 AM
Mr JL-
Wrestling fans have been so accustomed to having a GM/President/CEO/Sheriff/Commish on the show, that it would take GREAT creativity to move in another direction. Unfortunately, WWE isn't currently displaying that kind of creativity, so I think we will continued to be exposed to the staleness of a authority figurehead.

James Steele
06-27-2004, 12:49 AM
King, shhhhhh! "They" read these forums.



Anyway, the main problem is that Vince hasn't had to change the direction of the company yet.


Think about it, Vince didn't go from Doink to DX until WCW nearly drove him into the ground. The only way the direction changes is if they have to adapt to survive.


So either, they get so bad of ratings over a long period of time to make him realize "Damn... things need to change or i am outta business" or

Turner buys NWA:TNA or start his own promotion again (hope so) and take it to vince again because Ted Turner is the only man with the balls to take Vince on. He did it once and he knows what to do and NOT to do again.


Ted Turner is our only hope because TNA has the same chance of beating WWE as Jericho has of beating HHH at WrestleMania for the world title :shifty:


IAJS&IATM

jindrak
06-27-2004, 12:59 AM
James Steele-
Do you remember when the Ruthless Aggression era was ignited? It was a response to that godawful Raw that showed the Jackie Gayda flop, and Nash breaking his leg. Now, if memory serves me right, wasn't that the nadir of Raw, at the time?

In response to that horrific Raw, Vince disbanded the nWo (no questions asked even when that particular Raw had HHH deciding if he would join the nWo), and announced the Ruthless Aggression era.

ALSO, going even FURTHER back, and relating to your point. When Raw recieved a 1.9 in Nielsons, it was their lowest ever. In response to that, Attitude was created and the WWE NEVER looked back.

WWE will self regulate itself if their is no competition. Heck, a month ago Raw was looking like the Raw of 96/97.

James Steele
06-27-2004, 01:06 AM
Ummm... did you miss when i typed this: So either, they get so bad of ratings over a long period of time to make him realize "Damn... things need to change or i am outta business"


It is still going to take EXTREMES, and tell me the fucking difference between the "Attitude Era" and "Ruthless Aggression" era besides less T & A and some blue chippers getting puished. There was not a damn major change besides angles that got the axe.

Vince needs extremes to change: either EXTREME Competition (WCW kicking their ass) or shitty ratings (1.9 rating you mentioned)

So instead of insulting you i just want to say:


I'm JamesSteele and i approve of the above message and this message:


FUCK OFF JINDRAK!


Have A Nice Day.

Loose Cannon
06-27-2004, 01:20 AM
WOW, you went all out didn't you...

Anyways, I was hoping this would be acknowledged in in the thread I started...

During the Monday Night Wars, Raw and Nitro usually garnered around a 10 in the Nielsons. Now, with no Nitro around, Raw is only managing to get high 3's.


LOL, WHAT? 10'S? Where did you get this info from? Raw only got into the 8's once or twice.

THE SOLUTION- Get the mark back in wrestling!!! Everyone here is typically a person that watches wrestling, regardless if it sucks of not. However, the casual fan is the person that has to be drawn in and held on to. Heck, we all started out as marks. Gradually, mainly through the dirtshirts, we became educated about the business, and thus appreciate for wrestling for more than it actually appeared to be. We want certain wrestlers to be pushed because we live vicariously through wrestlers, but more importantly we want to be entertained.

It's "Dirtsheets" and you've just explained what we've been saying for the past 2 years in here.

Entertainment is the what will hook the casual fan to watch wrestling.

Remember, during the attitude era, the WWE went to great lengths to make its product more "fan friendly", meaning the characters took on another form. Instead of good vs evil, we were presented with shades of GRAY. No longer were wrestling fans insulted and force-fed crappy storylines.

Tell me- what teenage kid with testosterone would not be entertained by an person(s) sticking his middle finger, crotch chopping, cussing, and alluding to sexual innuendo???!!!

What I see now is the WWE marketing the product to kids not old enough to stay up late to watch Raw, and the hungover college students. WWE currrently placates to both those groups with WWE Experience. WWE has always marketed to children, whether they like to admit it or not. This is accomplished through action figures and other forms of mercandishing.

No, it's the still the same sh** as the "Attitude Era," but it's just been played out by now. They've repeated storylines over and over and over and over again.

WWE needs that next boom, and with the brand extension that boom the potential to be the greatest Golden Age in pro-wrestlign history. I suggest the WWE go about garnering fan through word of mouth by developing intriguing storylines and using past forumula's or success.

They have been using past formulas, that's why the product sucks. They don't give us a lot of new storylines. But, they are starting to push the young guys and that's what they need to do. Eugene is great, Orton is great, Cena is great, Mordeaci could be great, give Jindrak a little more time and he'll be pretty good too. All it takes is a couple of "big hits" to get things going again. Those "big hits" seemingly come out of nowhere though. Case in Point: Austin. All Vince needs to do is give wrestlers a chance to shine.

James Steele
06-27-2004, 01:26 AM
Loose Cannon....


I 100% Agree With You.




:shifty:

jindrak
06-27-2004, 01:35 AM
Loose Cannon-
The 10 was the COMBINED score of Raw and Nitro during the Monday Night Wars.

Loose Cannon
06-27-2004, 01:49 AM
Loose Cannon-
The 10 was the COMBINED score of Raw and Nitro during the Monday Night Wars.

What are you trying to say then? This is what your basically saying. John has 50 dollars and Jane has 40 dollars.Together they have 90 dollars. Without Jane, John only has 50 Dollars. Yeah, i know.

The Naitch
06-27-2004, 02:24 PM
I bet Jindrak still plays with his action figures

jindrak
06-27-2004, 04:31 PM
I bet Jindrak still plays with his action figures

Actually, no. :|

James Steele
06-27-2004, 05:25 PM
He just violates himself with them....

IAJS&IAOTM

Ferocious
06-27-2004, 05:38 PM
He just violates himself with them....

IAJS&IAOTM
Another half decent thread polluted with jobberness.