Am I the only one getting an "XFL" feeling about the WHA?

[road doggy dogg]

Okay I understand that with the possible lockout, players want to find places where they can play hockey, and that's all well and good. I dunno though, the thing has 8 franchises, and they had their 'draft' thing today and it just looks really sloppily thrown together. The one franchise doesn't even have a team name or city yet, and at the draft Halifax didn't even have an executive there. Not to mention that Simon Gagne was like the first overall player taken. :|

I dunno not trying to sound pessimistic or anything, but it does kind of look like a bad joke so far. If the NHL doesn't even have the lockout will the WHA still exist? Or will they just go on with a bunch of minor leaguers or something.

[BCWWF]

Did Gagne quit the NHL, or if it isn't locked out will he go back?

[road doggy dogg]

I'm not even sure how it's working. Because in the first round, Toronto picked Joe Thornton, who already signed a deal in Europe. :wtf:

I'd imagine that it would be a similar type thing... they can sign a contract, then if the NHL comes back they have the option to go back or something. Of course, I know nothing about contracts and everything so it probably isn't like that at all.

[MoRcHeEbA]

the draft they held today was so they had the "WHA rights" to negotiate with that player. Thus meaning Quebec has the rights to Gagne, who might be a little more likely to play in the WHA if they're willing to give him just as much or more then the NHL would.

I don't know if you know how the old WHA did business but the thing that kind of sky rocketed the WHA the first time is when the Jets ( before they were in the NHL) signed Bobby Hull out of the NHL thus making them a league in it's self because players followed suit.

It might also be noted that Bobby Hull signed the first Million Dollar Contract in Hockey and they've done nothing but sky rocket since, so Phoenix may have our Jets, but who's getting the last laugh now :lol:


:shifty:

[Yashamaga]

Isn't this the league that Bobby Hull is the commish of? :?:

the whole Thornton thing is an absolute mess. I'm still hearing reports that he's gonna sign a 2 year deal with the B's and that he didn't want out, but then I hear the opposite. If he comes back to the NHL and signs with some other team then we get 5 1st rounders anyway so it doesn't really matter :-\

oh and can you post the draft results

[MoRcHeEbA]

Isn't this the league that Bobby Hull is the commish of? :?:

the whole Thornton thing is an absolute mess. I'm still hearing reports that he's gonna sign a 2 year deal with the B's and that he didn't want out, but then I hear the opposite. If he comes back to the NHL and signs with some other team then we get 5 1st rounders anyway so it doesn't really matter :-\

oh and can you post the draft results


yeah Hull is the Commish.

Thornton went to arbitration, so now no one else can sign him, so the 5 first round picks go out the window, an Arbitrator will likely give him a 1 or a 2 year deal worth atleast 7 mill a year, so if the CBA goes into effect with a 31 million dollar cap, well you can punch numbers so that's about 25% of their caps space.

[road doggy dogg]

Yeah, Hull owns this league. That's why there's been a lot of rumors about Brett Hull joining it as well, to be alongside him or whatever.


Yeah the Thornton thing is kinda confusing. This just throws another wrench into the entire equation though. :| So basically three leagues have the rights to him now or something. :wtf: :wtf:


I'll try and find the draft results on TSN.ca in a sec.


Also, it sounds hellified fucked up about their salary cap. $15 million per team, but each individual player can make up to $5 million. :|:| So say they get a guy like Martin St. Louis (don't think for a second he won't ask for a salary increase) on their team, that's 1/3 of your team salary. That leaves you with $10 million for an entire hockey team. Sounds downright ridiculous if you ask me.

[MoRcHeEbA]

1st Round Selection Pos.
2003-04 Club
1.
Québec Simon Gagné LW
Philadelphia (NHL)
2.
Halifax Travis Green C Boston (NHL)
3.
Detroit Dany Heatley RW Atlanta (NHL)
4.
Hamilton Michael Ryder RW Montréal (NHL)
5.
Toronto Joe Thornton C Boston (NHL)
6.
Founders' franchise Todd Bertuzzi RW Vancouver (NHL)
7.
Dallas Eric Lindros C N.Y. Rangers (NHL)
8.
Florida Brad Richards C Tampa Bay (NHL)
-----------------------------------------------------------
2nd Round Selection Pos.
2003-04 Club
9.
Florida Steve Shields G Florida (NHL)
10.
Dallas Scott Gomez C New Jersey (NHL)
11.
Founders' franchise Corey Schwab G New Jersey (NHL)
12.
Toronto Ilya Kovalchuk LW Atlanta (NHL)
13.
Hamilton Felix Potvin G Boston (NHL)
14.
Detroit Drake Berehowsky D Toronto (NHL)
15.
Halifax Craig MacDonald C Boston (NHL)
16.
Québec Yannick Perreault C Montréal (NHL)
-----------------------------------------------------
3rd Round Selection Pos.
2003-04 Club
17.
Québec Maxime Ouellet G
Washington (NHL)
18.
Halifax Chris Tamer D Atlanta (NHL)
19.
Detroit Michael Zigomanis C Carolina (NHL)
20.
Hamilton Theoren Fleury RW Did Not Play
21.
Toronto Aaron Gavey C St. John's (AHL)
22.
Founders' franchise Lyle Odelein D Florida (NHL)
23.
Dallas Kip Miller C Washington (NHL)
24.
Florida Zac Bierk G Phoenix (NHL)
------------------------------------------------------------
4th Round Selection Pos.
2003-04 Club
25.
Florida Jamie Rivers D Detroit (NHL)
26.
Dallas Steve Kelly LW Los Angeles (NHL)
27.
Founders' franchise Tommy Albelin D New Jersey (NHL)
28.
Toronto Josh Holden C Toronto (NHL)
29.
Hamilton Trent Hunter RW N.Y. Islanders (NHL)
30.
Detroit Chris Nielsen C Manitoba (AHL)
31.
Halifax Jeff Finley D Saint Louis (NHL)
32.
Québec Stéphane Veilleux LW Minnesota (NHL)
---------------------------------------------------------
5th Round Selection Pos.
2003-04 Club
33.
Québec Eric Messier D
Florida (NHL)
34.
Halifax Steve Passmore G Chicago (NHL)
35.
Detroit Steve Kariya LW Albany (AHL)
36.
Hamilton Bryan Marchment D Toronto (NHL)
37.
Toronto Jonathan Cheechoo RW San Jose (NHL)
38.
Founders' franchise Shaun Van Allen C Ottawa (NHL)
39.
Dallas Blake Sloan RW Dallas (NHL)
40.
Florida Ben Clymer RW Tampa Bay (NHL)
--------------------------------------------------------------
6th Round Selection Pos.
2003-04 Club
41.
Florida Sean Avery C Los Angeles (NHL)
42.
Dallas Pavel Rosa RW Los Angeles (NHL)
43.
Founders' franchise Jiri Slegr D Boston (NHL)
44.
Toronto Brad May LW Vancouver (NHL)
45.
Hamilton Rob Zamuner LW Boston (NHL)
46.
Detroit Patrick Desrochers G Lowell (AHL)
47.
Halifax Glen Metropolit C Jokerit (Finland)
48.
Québec Joel Bouchard D N.Y. Rangers (NHL
-------------------------------------------------------------------
7th Round Selection Pos.
2003-04 Club
49.
Québec Simon Gamache C
Nashville (NHL)
50.
Halifax Jeff Hamilton C N.Y. Islanders (NHL)
51.
Detroit Alexander Perezhogin RW Hamilton (AHL)
52.
Hamilton Tom Fitzgerald RW Toronto (NHL)
53.
Toronto Peter Schaefer LW Ottawa (NHL)
54.
Founders' franchise Jarrod Skalde C Utah (AHL)
55.
Dallas Bryan Muir D Los Angeles (NHL)
56.
Florida Nicholas Dimitrakos RW San Jose (NHL)
------------------------------------------------------------------
8th Round Selection Pos.
2003-04 Club
57.
Florida Jean-Sebastien Aubin G Pittsburgh (NHL)
58.
Dallas Tim Thomas G Providence (AHL)
59.
Founders' franchise Doug Gilmour C Did Not Play
60.
Toronto Brad Leeb LW Toronto (NHL)
61.
Hamilton Byron Dafoe G Atlanta (NHL)
62.
Detroit Michael Henrich RW Toronto (AHL)
63.
Halifax Jason Krog C Anaheim (NHL)
64.
Québec P.J. Stock LW Philadelphia (AHL)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
9th Round Selection Pos.
2003-04 Club
65.
Québec Denis Hamel LW
Ottawa (NHL)
66.
Halifax David Ling RW Syracuse (AHL)
67.
Detroit Todd Elik C Davos (Switzerland)
68.
Hamilton Anson Carter C Los Angeles (NHL)
69.
Toronto Scott Hartnell C Nashville (NHL)
70.
Founders' franchise Dave Morissette LW Did Not Play
71.
Dallas Matt Herr C Providence (AHL)
72.
Florida Rick Berry D Washington (NHL)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
10th Round Selection Pos.
2003-04 Club
73.
Florida Bob Boughner D Colorado (NHL)
74.
Dallas Ron Hainsey D Montréal (NHL)
75.
Founders' franchise Chris Therien D Dallas (NHL)
76.
Toronto Mathieu Garon G Montréal (NHL)
77.
Hamilton Rob Ray RW Ottawa (NHL)
78.
Detroit Dmitri Yushkevich D Yaroslavl (Russia)
79.
Halifax Peter Ferraro RW Springfield (AHL)
80.
Québec Jean-Luc Grand-Pierre D Washington (NHL

[BCWWF]

Does this league actually have money to pay players? Its not small scale? They should put that last franchise in Duluth.

[BCWWF]

WTF why do Dallas and Florida have franchises?

[MoRcHeEbA]

Yeah, Hull owns this league. That's why there's been a lot of rumors about Brett Hull joining it as well, to be alongside him or whatever.


Yeah the Thornton thing is kinda confusing. This just throws another wrench into the entire equation though. :| So basically three leagues have the rights to him now or something. :wtf: :wtf:


I'll try and find the draft results on TSN.ca in a sec.


Also, it sounds hellified fucked up about their salary cap. $15 million per team, but each individual player can make up to $5 million. :|:| So say they get a guy like Martin St. Louis (don't think for a second he won't ask for a salary increase) on their team, that's 1/3 of your team salary. That leaves you with $10 million for an entire hockey team. Sounds downright ridiculous if you ask me.

HERE'S THE THING LISTEN CLOSELY... this league isn't a money league, it's a small market league. Teams can sign ONE player at 5 Million a year, the rest of the players would then be playing for about anywhere from 200,000 - 2,000,000 a year. The teams that went for players like Gagne, instead of someone like Thornton is because if there is a lockout the WHA will pay them still rather then them making nothing.

[MoRcHeEbA]

all the franchises are owned by independents. they all have the money to play atleast one season, it's been stated already by most teams.

[MoRcHeEbA]

the last franchise was suppose to be in edmonton or Cinci, but the guy who owns the one in florida was suppose to own two teams, but then he couldn't put his funding forward for both teams, so the league owns one untill someone buys it.

[road doggy dogg]

Yeah I don't know though, I don't really have enough faith in players to accept "only" $300,000 or so to play for a year. Realistically, I think that there is already more than anyone should make playing a sport, but that's a different story. It would be nice to have a $15 million cap and have it work, but I really don't see that happening. I'm still skeptical, I suppose.


The thing that's weird about it though, is that the NHLPA is so strongly AGAINST a cap, yet if the WHA works out that just proves that the NHL could survive with one. It will look really poorly on the NHLPA if a lot of players go to the WHA for a lot less money, when the NHLPA is so adamant about not having a cap and all.

I dunnnnnnnnnno I'll wait till it actually starts before I get too excited about it.

[MoRcHeEbA]

I've heard interviews from Gagne and St.Louis who have both said if there's a lock out this year and they get offered 5 mill a year they would be there in a second. Which I don't really blame them.

[road doggy dogg]

Yeah I wouldn't either. But how many players are going to be offered that much? One per team, so 8 out of a couple hundred? What kind of message does that send to the other players? "We're going to pay St. Louis $5 million, but the rest of you are going to make less than $700,000." I dunno, just sounds kinda crappy from a player's point of view. Then again, I just have this twisted perception that every player is there for the money, so I hope I'm wrong.

[MoRcHeEbA]

see that's the thing most teams are only gonna go after one big name, the rest are just going to be more like your 2nd or 3rd line players, who if they want money, they'll have to find it somewhere else.

[BCWWF]

I still don't like giving a team to Florida

[MoRcHeEbA]

well if the money was there that's where they went.

[ZuperWario]

I don't think they will be a lockout. They is already a 2004/2005 NHL Schedule.

http://nhl.com/onthefly/schedules/index.html

[BCWWF]

That means nothing

[da_king]

<font color="#ccffcc">
yeah you can pretty much crumple up that schedule and throw it in the trash bin cause it doesn't mean a dam. the WHA might do allright this year but beyond that i don't see it sticking around much longer once the nhl gets their act together. there is no way the wha will be able to generate more money to pay their players then the nhl would and without those types of players, they may as well be the ahl or ihl.


</font>

[The CyNick]

In terms of Thornton, as far as I know he hasn't signed anything with the Toronto WHA franchise. But the way I see it he had to sign with the Euro league, because I dont think very many people believe the WHA will ever actually play a game. I mean if there is no lockout, whats the point of the league? If there is a league, then they will have soemthing for a short time, but I wouldnn't hold my breath. So with that in mind it makes sense for Joe to sign with a team that he knows will be playing games in the Fall and then if the NHL gets going or if WHA actually takes off then he can always play there. It just gives him more options.

The league is kind of a joke because they still have a lot of issues up in the air. But in Canada at least, there will be a huge demand for hockey, so it'll work (if theres no NHL). But the problem is that it will die once the NHL comes back.

[KleptoKlown]

by the time the wha gets their shit together, the NHL labour dispute will be over, and it will be too late for the wha

[The Mackem]

2 questions

What's a lockout?

Why do Florida not deserve a team?

[da_king]

<font color="#ccffcc">

a lockout is similear to a strike except that it's initiated by the owners or employers rather then the employees (players in this case.) it's basically a work stoppage until they can negiate a new collective bargaining agreement.

</font>

[The Mackem]

What so are costs spiralling out of control or something?

[road doggy dogg]

Well it's just that the players are asking so much money now, and the league doesn't generate as much revenue as say, the NFL does. So because of this, ticket prices, merchandise, etc have to be raised to compensate. As a result, fewer people buy tickets, and since there's emptier arenas it shows TV stations that there's less interests, so they don't get as good TV deals.

That's why the league wants to implement a salary cap. It's kind of ridiculous when a single player can make around $10-11 million dollars in one season, so I think something needs to be done. But yeah basically, higher salaries mean higher expenses, and that's why everything's a bit of a mess.


As for the Florida thing, I guess a lot of people are still under the impression that it's a Canadian game and all, so if the city doesn't have a cold climate that they're "unworthy". Granted, there are better "hockey cities" than somewhere like Jacksonville (ie better fans, more interest) but nobody else was willing to fund it, so Florida got the team.

[The Mackem]

You'll forgive me but the thought at people thinking that a place is unworthy because they don't have acold climate and thus shouldn't have a sports team that plays indoors, is bitterly ironic.

Sorry, I just need some sort of a pun to pull the post together :$

But really sports stars today are getting uncontrollable. I don't mind them getting their fair share but when it starts to price fans out of the game, they are going too far.

[da_king]

<font color="#ccffcc">
the problem is the owners need something in place to protect them from themselves. if players are overpaid it's because management is giving it to them so from this perspective i can see where the players are comming from. i don't even think it's the top tier guys that are the problem. they're the ones that draw fans, have seniority, and help make their teams competetive. it's the lower to mid range guys that are the problem IMO because there's a lot of them and what they make isn't justified in terms of helping to generate revenue for their teams.

</font>