DISCUSSION - Which FACE will "face" Triple H at Wrestlemania 21?, other thoughts

[Heyman]

DISCUSSION - Which FACE will "face" Triple H at Wrestlemania 21?, other thoughts

Here's my guess (although a 5 year old could probably "guess" this as well): Triple H will either walk in to Wrestlemania 21 as champ, or will contend for the World title that night.

Either way - it's almost a given that Triple H will be feuding against the top face on Raw. The question in my mind, is who will that top face be?

Will Chris Jericho re-emerge as a serious contender?...or is he destined to mid-card hell forever now? Will the WWE elect to go with Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H part 1,434,645,206? Will (gulp) Eugene go after the title?

Do the fans "care" enough about Chris Benoit, Edge, and Shelton Benjamin to REALLY get behind them at full force?...........like they would if Jericho or The Rock fought Triple H for instance.

Speaking of The Rock, what are his chances of going one on one with Triple H at Mania?.....for the World title? We've never seen the two go one-on-one at the greatest stage of all. Could WM-21 be the place?



I guess the point I'm trying to get it in this thread, is that <font color=white>each face on Raw has some sort of 'flaw'.....which really prevent them from being perceived (or atleast the potential) as The Rock and Austin were</font>.

-Jericho's been buried
-Eugene is a joke
-Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H has been played out to DEATH
-The fans won't care enough about Shelton Benjamin until he gets a gimmick of which the marks like.
-The fans won't care enough about Edge until he adds another dimension to his gimmick (even as we speak - the fans are already starting to turn against Edge).
-The Rock no longer wrestles full-time (or even part time). Will Triple H really want to work a program with him?



<font color=white>Could Triple H turn face?....or a current Raw heel turn face?</font>

This is possible, but again - who would you have Triple H face?


-It's WAY too early to turn Orton face.

-Kane might work as a face, but I doubt he'd get the appropriate "main event face" reaction. He'd be no better than Benoit in this department.


As far as Triple H turning face is concerned, I think it would be a huge mistake if he turned face BEFORE Wrestlemania. The guy who ultimately goes 'over' Triple H, needs to defeat Triple H in his "truest" form. Triple H has been a heel practically his whole career (and during the prime of his main-event status).

The way I see it - It's pointless for a heel to go over a "face" Triple H at Wrestlemania......because the guy isn't really beating Triple H (if that makes any sense).


<font color=white>So - who the f</>uck should Triple H face at Wrestlemania?</font>

If you ask me? My top choices would be Eddie Guerrero, John Cena, or The Rock (Jericho would be another choice if he ever got re-pushed between now and then).

Guerrero and John Cena are the two biggest faces in the company right now. The problem however, is the number one heel is on another show. I've said this time and time again, but I'd genuinely like to see the World titles be unified at WM-21 (and yes - quite possibly the rosters as well).



Here's what I personally wouldn't mind seeing:

-At Summerslam, Taker defeats Bradshaw to win the title.

-Guerrero feuds with Angle for a few months, and the two exchange victories/jobs.

-Taker gets a long title reign....defeating Bradshaw, Big Show (who returns), Angle, and Eddie Guerrero.....all cleanly.

-Meanwhile, John Cena gets built up big time as well. Cena dominates the US division. Cena also scores victories over Angle, Big Show (again), and Layfield. Cena also continues to dominate Suzuki, Dupree, Booker T, and RVD.

-Sometime at the beginning of 2005 (Royal Rumble), Cena and Taker finally have a feud/match......which Cena goes over to win the title. Taker gives Cena a handshake of respect. Later on that night, Cena attacks one of the Royal Rumble competitors, and interjects himself in the RR. Cena wins the Rumble!

-The next night on Raw, Cena's music hits. It is here that Cena challenges Triple H to a 'winner take all' title match at Mania.

-At Mania, Cena goes over.

-In the months following Wrestlemania, Orton and Triple H (who turns face) feud. Orton goes over.

Around Summerslam 2005, Orton and Cena begin their 'epic' rivalry. They basically become the new "Rock/HHH" from 2000.


Possible? Fiction? Am I DREAMING here?


p.s. My other choice would be Eddie Guerrero (the same situation would occur as I 'painted' above, but with Guerrero at the helm).



So basically - I think another SMACKDOWN guy will have to challenge Triple H at next year's Mania. Either that, or a 'past great' such as The Rock.

[LK]

If it is the main event I would say that it will either be Michaels or maybe Benoit. Seriously doubt it will be Jericho. I think it might will be like WM 19 when HHH faced Booker and it wasn't really a major match and Trips squashed him like he probably will with whoever he faces. I doubt it will be Orton because that would be too early and I think even the WWE knows that.

BTW who do you think will be in the Smackdown championship match.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I have no idea why, but I was picturing Triple H being involved in an Evolution tag team match or something (him and Ric Flair vs. Batista & Randy Orton). I was thinking of a Benoit/Jericho, a Benoit/Jericho/Eugene, a Benoit/Eugene or a Benoit/Rock match. They're all far off, but I can see them being built up. I still have hope for a monster push and have Kane vs. Triple H. :y:

On SmackDown! I had envisioned an Undertaker vs. Mordecai match. Mordecai would then proceed to end the Undertaker's streak and win his first Championship. If not I can see an Eddie Guerrero vs. The Undertaker. Maybe Angle and/or JBL could be added in there somewhere?

[Mayo]

-It's WAY too early to turn Orton face.

Orton is already getting pops like crazy, so if Randall breaks off from Evolution (either by saying he's too big for it, or that he wants to be leader and then feuds with HHH, etc.) then I see the fans getting behind him pretty easily. I don't think he should be headlining a Wrestlemania yet though, I think WM 22 would be better for Mr. Orton.

-Taker gets a long title reign....defeating Bradshaw, Big Show (who returns), Angle, and Eddie Guerrero.....all cleanly.


Taker burying all of those guys would definitely hurt them a lot more than it would hurt Taker. He should be jobbing to up and coming talent at this stage of his career instead of taking the spotlight. I say he should beat one or two of them because of a Ref mistake, double knockout, etc. so that he doesn't look too invincible but keeps the title.

I wouldn't mind seeing The Rock main event Wrestlemania, but he will probably be fighting someone else to put them over (Orton, Cena, etc.). HHH should face someone like Y2J or RVD after great booking to make either of those guys respected main eventers again. We know that the crowd would be behind them, and they can both put on a great match. Jericho is better than RVD on the mic, so I would drool over Jericho going over HHH for the World title. :drool:

[Heyman]

If it is the main event I would say that it will either be Michaels or maybe Benoit. Seriously doubt it will be Jericho. I think it might will be like WM 19 when HHH faced Booker and it wasn't really a major match and Trips squashed him like he probably will with whoever he faces. I doubt it will be Orton because that would be too early and I think even the WWE knows that.

BTW who do you think will be in the Smackdown championship match.

Since Raw is quite a bit superior to Smackdown right now, I'm not even sure if Smackdown's "WWE title" match will be the main-event at WM. That's why I had the feeling that we MIGHT see a unified title match.

If I'm wrong however, then perhaps we COULD see the Triple H face turn.

Perhaps Triple H and Shawn Michaels could TEAM UP to take on Orton and Batista?

In the main-event of Smackdown, I'm guessing that it will involve Eddie Guerrero. I'm just not sure who. I'm thinking it will be against John Cena, RVD (heel), or Kurt Angle.

[Heyman]

I have no idea why, but I was picturing Triple H being involved in an Evolution tag team match or something (him and Ric Flair vs. Batista & Randy Orton). I was thinking of a Benoit/Jericho, a Benoit/Jericho/Eugene, a Benoit/Eugene or a Benoit/Rock match. They're all far off, but I can see them being built up. I still have hope for a monster push and have Kane vs. Triple H. :y:

On SmackDown! I had envisioned an Undertaker vs. Mordecai match. Mordecai would then proceed to end the Undertaker's streak and win his first Championship. If not I can see an Eddie Guerrero vs. The Undertaker. Maybe Angle and/or JBL could be added in there somewhere?

As retarded as the WWE are, I don't think they'll put JBL in the title match at Mania. The only reason why JBL is champ right now, is to give Smackdown a CREDIBLE mid-carder for the future.....when business picks up again. With Angle, Show, and Lesnar out, it's actually not a bad idea to have JBL as champ.

Once guys like Angle and Show come back, JBL gets demoted. Because JBL was champ however, he looks more "relevant" as a mid-carder.....a good quality to have when putting over faces such as Cena, RVD, etc.


Kane/HHH seems ok, but who'd be face and heel? Like I said - I think it's pointless for HHH to turn face before Mania. The guy who ultimately goes over HHH, needs to beat Triple H in his truest form (i.e. his 'heel self). That's the only real way that it will have any real meaning IMO.

The Kane thing COULD work if pushed right. But then again - this is the WWE so I wouldn't count on it.

[asphyXy]

<font color=969696>If RVD is going to do anything on Smackdown, he has to turn heel. They should bring in Bill Alphonso as a referee and have him ref all of his matches. The ECW marks will get it. The WWE marks won't. RVD and Guerrero have already proven they can put on insanely awesome matches, and I'd love to see them have another ladder match. Because the WWE has a hard time allowing "heels" to be cheered, they'd most likely fuck up an RVD heel turn. His attitude would have to be the exact same attitude he had in ECW for this to work. Guerrero should remain a face all the way to Mania, and they should start to build an RVD/Guerrero feud as soon as Bradshaw is out of the picture [which I'm hoping is VERY soon].

Months of buildup to a Wrestlemania finish would be logical, so I don't see it happening.</font>

[Heyman]

Orton is already getting pops like crazy, so if Randall breaks off from Evolution (either by saying he's too big for it, or that he wants to be leader and then feuds with HHH, etc.) then I see the fans getting behind him pretty easily. I don't think he should be headlining a Wrestlemania yet though, I think WM 22 would be better for Mr. Orton.

Orton is getting popped because the fans LOVE to hate him. Think of Triple H back in 2000/2001. It's almost the same thing. However - were the fans as enthusiastic when Triple H turned face? How about Kurt Angle? Angle was also a guy who got the "we love to hate you" reaction. As a face however, Angle was bland.

I think Orton would be the same way. Orton's "holier than thou" attitude only works as a heel. What would he do as a face? I think after a month or so, Orton would get lukewarm reactions as a face. Edge is another example of what I'm talking about.


If Orton were to turn face, he'd have to act "differently" from how he does now.

My opinion - Keep Orton heel for now.




Taker burying all of those guys would definitely hurt them a lot more than it would hurt Taker.

True, but it would be a tradeoff. Taker burying the others would hurt them, but it would also make Cena (or Guerrero) going over Taker to look even MORE impressive. Since Cena or Guerrero will be the future draw for this company, it's arguably more important to make them look as good as possible.



I wouldn't mind seeing The Rock main event Wrestlemania, but he will probably be fighting someone else to put them over (Orton, Cena, etc.). HHH should face someone like Y2J or RVD after great booking to make either of those guys respected main eventers again. We know that the crowd would be behind them, and they can both put on a great match. Jericho is better than RVD on the mic, so I would drool over Jericho going over HHH for the World title. :drool:


If RVD or Jericho EVER got re-pushed to the point where they'd fight Triple H in the WM main-event, I'd be the happiest fan alive. :cool: ...ESPECIALLY in Jericho's case.

The Rock vs. Orton or Cena also sounds good (although I'm sure the interest for those matches would be MUCH greater around WM-22....when Cena/Orton would be established champs by then).

[Loose Cannon]

You know, when reading that, something popped into my head that would really get Orton over as a heel or a face. What if Orton steals away Steph from HHH. They could do the whole Kurt/HHH/Steph angle from a couple of years ago all over again, but get it right this time.

What if say Steph comes back and manages Trips/Evolution again. She would be on the outside in all their matches and everything. As time goes on Orton starts to get a thing for Steph and Steph even starts to like Orton. Then HHH gets jelous of the whole ordeal.

Now, you can go two ways with this. You can make Orton an innocent victim and make HHH as a guy that's just seeing into the problem too much and being a big prick about it. Orton would tell Steph that he and her wouldn't work because he respects Trips more. But Trips still doesn't care what Orton says and orders an Evolution beatdown on him to the dismay of Steph. Steph would then go with Orton in the end. In this scenerio, ORTON =BABYFACE AND TRIPS =HEEL.


Now, you go the other way. Orton acts like a jackass to Trips and goes behind his back to make the moves on Steph. Orton even starts costig HHH matches by paying more attention to Steph on the Outside. Maybe they could do a segment where Orton goes to HHH's home while Steph is there and HHH is away and starts coming on to Steph even more. But here's the catch, in this scenerio, you have to have Steph turn away Orton all the time and have Orton keep coming on to her so the fans really hate him. Then HHH and Orton have a match and Steph turns on HHH and goes with Orton.


Basically, eathier would work. I sort of like #1 scenerio better. But Steph HAS TO wind up with Orton in the end of both.

[Londoner]

I would love to see a unified title match. Can you imagine how over Cena would be if he beat HHH at wrestlemania to unify the titles?Especially after beating Taker(though i doubt that will happen) My only worry is that Cena would eventually be buried by HHH because HHH would in no way let someone like Cena get to be as big as part of the business as he is.

I do actually enjoy having a show without HHH on, but maybe at wrestlemania it would be time to end the roster split. Only problem is how would you hype up the title match when the wrestlers are on two different shows?

[Heyman]

<font color=969696>If RVD is going to do anything on Smackdown, he has to turn heel. They should bring in Bill Alphonso as a referee and have him ref all of his matches. The ECW marks will get it. The WWE marks won't. RVD and Guerrero have already proven they can put on insanely awesome matches, and I'd love to see them have another ladder match. Because the WWE has a hard time allowing "heels" to be cheered, they'd most likely fuck up an RVD heel turn. His attitude would have to be the exact same attitude he had in ECW for this to work. Guerrero should remain a face all the way to Mania, and they should start to build an RVD/Guerrero feud as soon as Bradshaw is out of the picture [which I'm hoping is VERY soon].

Months of buildup to a Wrestlemania finish would be logical, so I don't see it happening.</font>

I REALLY like the idea of that. RVD/Guerrero = *boner* :drool:


You also inadvertently touched upon a very good point. The one major advantage that RVD has (that practically no other superstar has) is that he HASN"T made a "turn" since being in the company.

In other words, RVD is one of those guys who could make a 'turn' and completely start off fresh.

I also wouldn't worry too much if the fans cheer RVD as a heel. In fact - I'd argue that part of being a successful heel nowadays, is getting mixed cheers.

Think about The Rock during his 2003 heel run. Triple H from 2000 (and now). Randy Orton at current. Kurt Angle in 2002/03. The Rock during his corporate days. Shawn Michaels during his Degeneration X days. All of these are successful heels in my opinion....all of which got cheered.


The WWE shouldn't worry about 'faces' and 'heels'. All they should worry about, is maximizing one's character when the opportunity presents itself (if that makes sense).

[Heyman]

[b][COLOR=RoyalBlue]You know, when reading that, something popped into my head that would really get Orton over as a heel or a face. What if Orton steals away Steph from HHH. They could do the whole Kurt/HHH/Steph angle from a couple of years ago all over again, but get it right this time.

:eek:

I LOVE that idea. The only thing I'd do differently, is NOT have Stephanie come back to manage Evolution.

I'd just have Orton make an announcement over his new "girlfriend" and introduce Stephanie.

[Loose Cannon]

No, you can't do that. You have to make her come back with Trips at first. You got to play an angle like that out. It would make for great TV if you have Orton and Steph slowly start to like each other. Like imagine on Raw, Orton walks in on Steph changing and it's like an awkward moment at first. Then when Orton closes the door fast, the camera zooms in on Stephs face and she is smiling. You know, little things like that. Man, the WWE has a good story right in front of them with this, IMO.

[Heyman]

I would love to see a unified title match. Can you imagine how over Cena would be if he beat HHH at wrestlemania to unify the titles?Especially after beating Taker(though i doubt that will happen)


Exactly. :y: Infact - I'm starting to wonder how 'over' Guerrero would be right now if he did what Benoit did back in January.


My only worry is that Cena would eventually be buried by HHH because HHH would in no way let someone like Cena get to be as big as part of the business as he is.

Perhaps, but I think it would be a lot tougher to hold down a guy who'd be WAY over with the fans. If Cena went over Triple H at Mania (in the scenerio I painted), then the guy would be almost as 'over' as Austin and The Rock (ok...maybe not to THAT extent, but it would be pretty damned close).

I do actually enjoy having a show without HHH on, but maybe at wrestlemania it would be time to end the roster split. Only problem is how would you hype up the title match when the wrestlers are on two different shows?

Well.....I'm thinking that Cena could defeat Taker that night....and then enter the actual rumble (he'd attack someone backstage, and then enter the RR.....kind of like Foley did this past year).

I'm not sure how they could end the split though. Maybe have Invasion part II after Survivor Series this year?


Another thought I had, was that if Cena challenged Triple H for the title, then Cena could appear on both Raw and Smackdown. However - it would come at a price.....(since Cena is SD's champ).

The GM's of Raw/SD come to an agreement that because Cena is champ of Smackdown, he can only appear on Raw provided that Smackdown get back Edge, Benjamin, Nidia, Taijiri, and Rhyno (the people they lost in the original draft).

[Heyman]

No, you can't do that. You have to make her come back with Trips at first. You got to play an angle like that out. It would make for great TV if you have Orton and Steph slowly start to like each other. Like imagine on Raw, Orton walks in on Steph changing and it's like an awkward moment at first. Then when Orton closes the door fast, the camera zooms in on Stephs face and she is smiling. You know, little things like that. Man, the WWE has a good story right in front of them with this, IMO.

I don't mind that idea, but I don't like how Steph and Triple H would get back together, only to split so soon again. :n:

If this were to happen, would it really make sense for Triple H to fight Orton over Steph (or be mad at the fact that he 'stole' Steph). In my view, Triple H's mentality would be more like, "fine.....you can have the slut....I don't care....but I'll still fight you anyways".

That's why I don't think this would be like the Steph/Angle/HHH angle from 2000.

[Londoner]

Maybe to hype the title match up at wrestlemania they could actually have HHH and Cena appearing on both shows but everyone else stays on there own brand until the roster split ends? That's the only way i can think of, unless they do something like what they did with Goldberg V Brock. But this is a main event match for wrestlemania were talking about so i doubt that way would work.

[Favre4Ever]

Are you saying Cena should go to RAW?

No. Benoit leaving pissed me off. Cena leaving would be an outrage.
You basically interjected Cena into Benoits place in this years storyline, and you took out the triple threat part. I dont want to see that again. This year, Triple H should NOT be involved in a Title match at Mania.

I fully expect Evolution to break up before the mania. The title match I would like to see at 21 is Orton vs. Jericho( I can dream, right?). Then, Triple H could take a backseat and have a match with his former mentor Ric Flair(WOOOOOO!!!!).

Before Triple H was challenged by Taker to a match at W17, he said "I've done it all, i've beaten everybody." Now its about to be four years later. He's still done everything. Bottom Line: He should NOT be involved with the Title at Wrestlemania.

[Loose Cannon]

Yeah, I forgot about the whole HHH/Jericho/Steph ordeal when I wrote that. I just assumed HHH and Steph never really had a breakup, but they did. Totally forgot about that. :o: Okay, well if you have Orton bring Steph back, then you would have to leave Orton as the heel and turn HHH babyface. Bceuase by bringing Steph back, Orton is just slapping HHH in the face, cause HHH hates Steph. HMMM, I'm not liking that though, cause I want to see Orton go babyface.

How would you do it, so Orton is a babyface and HHH is the heel with that storyline?

[Heyman]

Another possible idea I had (if the WWE keeps their roster split, but realizes that a new face is needed for HHH), is that the WWE can do an angle where they announce that Smackdown is losing money....and they can't afford the contract of a "certain" superstar.


It's here that Bischoff and Smackdown's GM come to an agreement.

Smackdown gets all the guys they lost during the 'lottery' (Edge, Taijiri, Rhyno, Nidia, and Benjamin), while Raw gets.........Eddie Guerrero.


This way, Raw gets a new face.........while Smackdown gets more depth....and guys who can still become main-eventers over there (i.e. Edge, RVD, Cena, Benjamin, etc.).

[Londoner]

I prefer Guerrero on Smackdown myself, he's carried that show imo, taking Guerrero off of Smackdown would be like taking HHH off of Raw.

[Favre4Ever]

Smackdown doesnt need to lose any of its huge stars. Guerrero, Cena, Taker, and Angle need to stay where they are and try keep this show going until either the end of the world or the brand split ends(which ever comes first). RAW is supposedly the superior brand, let them work with what they have.

If any trade is ever made between RAW and Smackdown, it should involve one big guy for a bunch of smaller guys. If they want Guerrero, they give Trips or Jericho. A guy of equal caliber. Hey, fairs fair.

And Smackdowns having a hard enough time getting the guys they HAVE into the main event, they dont need a shitload more to think storylines up for.

[Heyman]

HMMM, I'm not liking that though, cause I want to see Orton go babyface.

How would you do it, so Orton is a babyface and HHH is the heel with that storyline?


In my opinion, Orton won't work as a face (atleast right now). I made a post earlier about this in this thread. Orton is basically like Angle (and even like TripleH) in my opinion. As heels, the fans "love to hate them".

As faces however - their characters would have to change slightly. Orton would no longer act 'holier than though'.....just as Triple H could no longer play the cold and calculating borderline pyscho. Similarily, Angle couldn't act like the 'pompous American hero' of which the fans grew to love (to hate).


Basically - Orton won't work as a face IMO....atleast right now. His schtick would get old fast. Think about Edge right now....another example.

[Londoner]

Yeah what annoys me is people think too much of how to make Raw better when it has enough stars as it is, instead of making Smackdown better. Do note that by taking big stars off of Smackdown like Guerrero,angle and Taker, you would be making the same mistake as the writers have....

[Loose Cannon]

OK, since this thread is on fire right now with replies, I might as well go ahead and post this. This idea came to me yesterday while reading Foley's book for some reason.

I saw you post the Invasion 2 up there Heyman and this goes along with it.

What if you have Benoit, Guerrero, Jericho and Rey Mysterio all turn heel and allign themselves with Eric Bischoff. Benoit and Jericho would become a tag team, Eddie is thier main event guy and Rey is thier heel Crusier.

Now, the story behind all thier turns would be that Bischoff had been secretly planning to take over the WWF one day. He sent Eddie and Benoit, Jericho over a long time ago to get on the inside and to build themselves up as stars and when the time was right, he would take down the WWF. Bischoff could say that he knew he was going out of business, so he sent those guys over to win the WWE Titles and become main eventers there. Bischoff could say that he saw the first so called Invasion and it was nothing but bullshit because it was just Vince McMahon's little game. He could say this Hostile Takeover is for real and they will destroy the WWE.


Now, they would all have to be Champions for this to work. It doesn't matter if they had all the belts, but they all have to be champions. Just imagine those four wrestlers on one team and maybe even throw Booker T in with them. I think something like that would work as long as they all go over WWE wrestlers and Bischoff takes over Raw.

[The CyNick]

Smackdown cannot lose anymore superstars without getting SUPERSTARS back in return. People wont watch a show because it has "depth" they will only watch for stars, which is why wrestling is down in general right now, and why SD is less successful than RAW, its all about stars. Theres no debating that point.

Orotn-HHH is basically a lock (or as close as you can get 8 months from the show) at this point for Mania, so its just a matter of how you get to that position.

Orton is getting pops right now, and its not small its getting pretty huge. Read hosue show results and more often than not you'll hear how the majority of the crowd was cheering for Orton, and Orton had to turn the crowd against him. Then you can look at Vengeance and its clear Orton has to become a babyface in the near future, or do soemthing to make him a stronger heel.

I think the WWE does too many things that goes against what the fans want. Right now it looks like the fans want to cheer Orton, so why go against that? If the fans want to pay money to cheer him, then make him a babyface. He could still be "the legend killer", he could just kill heel legends like HHH or Flair.

When Rock was turned by the fans he basically stayed the same arrogant cocky guy, he just turned his venom on the heels instead of the babyfaces. So I think Orton can do the same thing.

Cena-HHH was the only other idea that seemed to make some sense. But the problem with that one is that you miss out on the whole Evolution split angle, which needs to be done sooner rather than later. I think if you wait till mid/late '05 thats too long. Fans are hot for Orton NOW, you have to run with that. On top of that if SD were to lose a Cena or Guerrero who would they get back that would be of eqaul value?

In terms of Orton going with Steph, I dont think that would make him a babyface. I dont think fans will get behind Orton "stealing" Steph from Hunter.

Rock as a challenger makes no sense whatsoever, Rock is a movie star now, shouldn't be put in any title matches when its clear he wont be winning.

As for the SD title match, I think is if Angle can hold up they'd like to have him involved in the title match, but with his condition its tough to bank on that. If it is Angle, then either Cena, Benoit or Guerrero could be his opponent. However, I could also see a situation where JBL hangs on to the title way longer than any of us expects and then they go to Cena as the champ at Mania 21. I thinkt he best idea is to do Eddie-Angle Part 2 at Summerslam, then separate them for the rest of the year, and build back to Eddie going after the title against Angle (rubber match) at Mania 21 (where Eddie should be really over since its LA).

[Londoner]

Don't mind benoit as a heel but weve complained about jericho being heel before and that hes better as face, and i much prefer eddie as a face, so i'm not to sure that would work LC. Nice idea though.

[Loose Cannon]

No, CyNick you misread my thing with Steph. Orton wouldn't steal Steph away though. He would turn her away and say he respects Hunter more. IMO, this would make the fans long for it to happen, especially the females. But, I forgot about the whole HHH/Steph/Jericho ordeal, so that can't happen now cause HHH and Steph hate each other.

So, the only way you do that is have Orton bring Steph back and then HHH gets pissed because he hates Steph. Then Orton keeps putting the moves on Steph further solidifying HHH as a babyfave.

But, I don't want to see that really.

[The CyNick]

Okay, I see now, still though, I dont want to see her come back in an angle with Hunter. Plus, as we've seen in the past I dont think Hunter will allow anyone to get the better of him when she's involved.

[Favre4Ever]

Awesome Invasion idea, LC. If I were Bischoff though, I would have done this as soon as the WWE hired him. And when he was announced as the GM of RAW, Goldburg, Stiener, Booker T and Sting should have broken into the main event match and it would be established that Bischoff was trying to break the WWE for good this time.

The Smackdown stars would revel in their good luck, that it was all happening on a different show. But it would be all for not as Hall, Nash and Hogan broke in layed it all down. The wrestlers would have to counter WCW on different shows, RAW could even be taken over and be WCW RAW, And the WWE stars would have to win it back.

This could climax with the money match of the century, Goldburg vs. Austin.

[Heyman]

Yeah what annoys me is people think too much of how to make Raw better when it has enough stars as it is, instead of making Smackdown better. Do note that by taking big stars off of Smackdown like Guerrero,angle and Taker, you would be making the same mistake as the writers have....

I see what you're saying (and I admit - I am guilty as charged when it comes to being biased towards Raw.....as I didn't get Smackdown this past year).

I guess from where I sit - it just doesn't make sense to have your top heel on Raw, while the two largest faces are on Smackdown (three if you count Undertaker).

As CyNick pointed out, "depth" isn't what gets people to watch shows. Ultimately - it's the top stars which draw. I guess I got a bit pre-occupied with getting Triple H an opponent.

Still - even if Guerrero OR Cena go to Raw, Smackdown would still have Guerrero or Cena (one or the other), alongside Taker. Also - if my idea went into effect, they'd still be getting Edge (along side Taijiri, Rhyno, and Nidia). Edge still has potential to a solid main-eventer.

[Heyman]

Smackdown cannot lose anymore superstars without getting SUPERSTARS back in return. People wont watch a show because it has "depth" they will only watch for stars, which is why wrestling is down in general right now, and why SD is less successful than RAW, its all about stars. Theres no debating that point.

I agree. I admittedly got caught in thinking about an opponent for Triple H. Plus - I'm biased towards Raw. :P. I do disagree with one thing however. Even if Guerrero OR Cena went to Raw (not both), the 'other' one would still remain on Smackdown. If my idea went into effect, Edge (along with Rhyno, Benjamin, Taijiri, and Nidia) would also go. Edge and Benjamin still have a chance to become credible main-eventers. Both men can use Angle, Big Show, and Undertaker to ascend to the proverbial "next level".



Orotn-HHH is basically a lock (or as close as you can get 8 months from the show) at this point for Mania, so its just a matter of how you get to that position.

Orton is getting pops right now, and its not small its getting pretty huge. Read hosue show results and more often than not you'll hear how the majority of the crowd was cheering for Orton, and Orton had to turn the crowd against him. Then you can look at Vengeance and its clear Orton has to become a babyface in the near future, or do soemthing to make him a stronger heel.

My biggest concern with Orton turning face, is that he'll be a FLOP like Triple H and Kurt Angle. Triple H (pre January 2002) and Kurt Angle (a few months before Wrestlemania 19) were also heels that garnered HUGE face pops at times.

When they made their 'turns' however, their reactions were pretty lukewarm after about a month or so.

The potential problem that lies within "turning" someone, is that their characters have to change slightly. When Triple H became face, he couldn't play the cold and calculating borderline pyscho. When Angle turned face, people didn't fully embrace his "nerdy goody goody I'm an American Hero" gimmick nearly as much as when he was a heel.

See what I'm getting at?

If Orton turns face, what will he "act" like? Orton plays the "cocky" role to perfection. It's his strong suit. You turn him face however, and he can't do that.

Orton does not have the luxury of having great mic skills like The Rock and Chris Jericho. Orton does have decent mic skills, but he doesn't have the 'flair' of Rocky or Jericho.

If Orton turned face - he'd be similar to Angle in my opinion.

Orton should stay heel. If the fans cheer him, that's their perogative.

Remember what happened with Brock Lesnar. In my opinion, they turned him face WAY too soon (when he began his first feud with Big Show). Looking back on it, perhaps the WWE should have waited longer.

I think the WWE does too many things that goes against what the fans want. Right now it looks like the fans want to cheer Orton, so why go against that? If the fans want to pay money to cheer him, then make him a babyface. He could still be "the legend killer", he could just kill heel legends like HHH or Flair.

In my opinion, sometimes the fans would rather "Love to HATE" someone as opposed to cheering for them. It's obvious that the fans love Kurt Angle. However - it's also obvious that they'd much rather 'boo' him.

Truth be told - I think The Rock would be in that same boat if he ever returned full-time. After a half-year, The Rock's "schitck" would grow old again and the fans would turn on him. However - they'd probably cheer the hell out of him if he acted heelish.

When Rock was turned by the fans he basically stayed the same arrogant cocky guy, he just turned his venom on the heels instead of the babyfaces. So I think Orton can do the same thing.

Orton doesn't have The Rock's mic skills.

Cena-HHH was the only other idea that seemed to make some sense. But the problem with that one is that you miss out on the whole Evolution split angle, which needs to be done sooner rather than later. I think if you wait till mid/late '05 thats too long. Fans are hot for Orton NOW, you have to run with that. On top of that if SD were to lose a Cena or Guerrero who would they get back that would be of eqaul value?

My line of thinking was that if Raw got Cena or Guerrero, SD would get everyone that they lost in the draft lottery (Edge, Benjamin, Rhyno, Taijiri, and Nidia). Edge and Benjamin might still be able to draw one day if they get better gimmicks. ???

In terms of Orton going with Steph, I dont think that would make him a babyface. I dont think fans will get behind Orton "stealing" Steph from Hunter.

Agreed.

Rock as a challenger makes no sense whatsoever, Rock is a movie star now, shouldn't be put in any title matches when its clear he wont be winning.

I disagree. If The Rock came back for maybe two months (between RR and Wrestlemania), perhaps he could re-kindle his rivalry with Triple H. The Rock is perhaps the biggest face of all-time. Triple H might be considered to be the greatest heel of all-time. The Rock and HHH have never gone one on one at Mania. I'm thinking that this could be excellent from a PPV buyrate perspective (I realize that it's WM and it will get a huge PPV buyate anyways, but still).

Let The Rock finish on top. Let him win the World title.

I don't think it's too bad an idea personally.

As for the SD title match, I think is if Angle can hold up they'd like to have him involved in the title match, but with his condition its tough to bank on that. If it is Angle, then either Cena, Benoit or Guerrero could be his opponent. However, I could also see a situation where JBL hangs on to the title way longer than any of us expects and then they go to Cena as the champ at Mania 21. I thinkt he best idea is to do Eddie-Angle Part 2 at Summerslam, then separate them for the rest of the year, and build back to Eddie going after the title against Angle (rubber match) at Mania 21 (where Eddie should be really over since its LA).

Eddie/Angle always sounds good to me, but I'd much rather see something different. No Wrestlemania ever has back to back match-ups for its main-event. Why go to the well one too many times?

I think a heel RVD vs. a face Eddie Guerrero would actually generate more interest.

[The CyNick]

But when we talk about these fantasy booking ideas, I try to stay within the realm of reality. I mean I'd love to see a RAW PPV headlined by soemone other than HHH, but that isn't going to happen. So when I talk about these things, I try to be realistic. The idea of RVD in a main event is laughable to me because I know how the WWE sees him. If they EVER had any plans of pushing him as a main eventer they would have done it in place of Bradshaw, they didn't so oviously he will NEVER be a main eventer in the company. People just have to accept that.

Rock is great you know I love him, but he's not going to be with the company in any sort of regualr capacity for many years, if ever. So the idea of booking a World Title match around him, and even worse having him win is absurd to me. I'd like to see them do a HHH-Rock match somewhere down the line given their history, but why not wait till HHH gets into the movie game a little more and play up that aspect? But since hHH is a full time wrestler right now, I'd rather see him JOB and sorta create a new star with Orton than wrestle a match with Rocky that will mean anothing for either guy. If you are worried about buyrates go to guys like Hogan, Goldberg, Foley and Austin, they can all have matches with or against Rock and sell buys, but at the same time leave the real matches for guys who will still be with the company on a full time basis. And you said let Rock finish on top, he's only like 30, he'll still be wrestling 20 years from now, so there's no rush to end his career.

I think guys like Benjamin and Edge (well not Edge but probably Benjamin) can be legit main eventers, but I also think Haas and Rene Dupree will main event someday. The problem is that people dont watch shows based on seeing stars of tomorrow they watch to see stars of today. So if SD were to get all those guys back, they'd still be out a credible main eventer without getting one back in return, and will again remind people that SD is the minor leagues, which isn't good.

I'm not sure one way or the other about Orton as a promo guy. He seems decent enough, but he's obviously not on par with a guy like Rock, but then again who really is? When Rock was first cutting promos as a singles guy he was green, he had a decent line or two, but he had to work on it for a while before he became "the most electrifying man...". I cant say forsure if Orton will be good, but I think he has potential.

The difference between him and say Kurt was that people were happy to boo Kurt, heck even as a babyface they had to work in the "You Suck" chants as part of his babyface schtick. With Orton, they are just flat out chanting his name, its impossible to be a proper heel when that is happening (ask Austin, ask the NWO). Edge was supposed to be a babyface in that match with Orton at Vengeance, but he looked like a fool with most of the crowd cheering for Orton. Wait till that happens in Toronto, well maybe it wont happen here, but it would be funny if it did.

The other thing with Angle and even HHH as babys is that the WWE totally screwed both out of their runs. HHH was getting massive pops (from the HHH returns fromt he dead push) and they tuirned the pops into poop (sorry lame joke), and then a month after winning the title, he was totally jobbed out to Hogan and made to look even weaker. That pretty much killed his babyface run. I dont know, he might have failed as a babyface anyway, but the booking ensured that he failed. With Angle, if you ever question Angle's ability to get over as a face watch Invasion again and the lead up to that. People were nuts for Angle when he was playing a kick ass babyface, and whats ironic is that with 9/11 happening a few months after that I think he could have taken over from Austin/Rock as the next big star in the company. Unfortunately they went back to the comedy stuff, and again that killed him. So, its unfair to use Angle's run as a babyface against him when there was horrible booking involved.

If Orton goes baby and is put in an angle focused on dog crap and he's wearing a Sumbrero and playing the guitar, then no he wont be a successful babyface. If on the other hand he still comes off as arrogant, cooler than sh#t, and kicks HHH's ass then he probably will get over.

As for being preoccupied with HHH, its not your fault its like watching a Pamela Anderson movie and saying the only thing I remembered was her chest. Its not your fault, thats all the movie makers wanted you to focus on.

[Loose Cannon]

Funny thing is, I never cheer for babyfaces anymore. I mean, I like guys like Benoit, Guerrero and Jericho, but I don't really cheer for them like I do for Orton. But, if Orton turns babyface and keeps his image, I definately see myself still cheering for him. The last babyface that I seriously cheered for was HHH back in his DX days. I don't know, I just can't stand them, especially guys like Cena, Rock and Taker. They just annoy me. But, Orton needs to keep his image and not be reduced to a sideshow, like CyNick said, if he returns. They need to make him look like he's standing up for all that is good and standing up to the powers of the WWE (HHH, Bischoff, Vince..etc.)

[The CyNick]

Exactly, Orton could kinda speak up for the people who hate the fact that HHH has been on top forever + a day. I think people would get behind him if he talked about standing up to HHH and the "establishment" and worked to cut them down.

[Heyman]

The idea of RVD in a main event is laughable to me because I know how the WWE sees him. If they EVER had any plans of pushing him as a main eventer they would have done it in place of Bradshaw, they didn't so oviously he will NEVER be a main eventer in the company. People just have to accept that.

Maybe, but didn't you say the same thing about Chris Benoit about a year ago? :p. Also - I support the WWE's decision to push Bradshaw right now. Business for Smackdown is down anyways......since Big Show and Angle are out of commission. Why not use this time to allow nimrods like Layfield to become champ? Once Show, Angle, and.....Lesnar? come back, Layfield will go back down to the mid-cards. Because of his title reign, he'll look like a formiddable mid-carder.

Rock is great you know I love him, but he's not going to be with the company in any sort of regualr capacity for many years, if ever. So the idea of booking a World Title match around him, and even worse having him win is absurd to me. I'd like to see them do a HHH-Rock match somewhere down the line given their history, but why not wait till HHH gets into the movie game a little more and play up that aspect? But since hHH is a full time wrestler right now, I'd rather see him JOB and sorta create a new star with Orton than wrestle a match with Rocky that will mean anothing for either guy. If you are worried about buyrates go to guys like Hogan, Goldberg, Foley and Austin, they can all have matches with or against Rock and sell buys, but at the same time leave the real matches for guys who will still be with the company on a full time basis. And you said let Rock finish on top, he's only like 30, he'll still be wrestling 20 years from now, so there's no rush to end his career.

I can agree with that. I just wonder as to WHOM Triple H would willingly do the JOB for. You know what would be cool? Brock Lesnar coming back before Mania', and challenging Triple H. Now THAT is something that I'd like to see. Lesnar would get a HUGE reaction IMO. Maybe instead of Guerrero being traded to Raw (for the 5 guys from the draft lottery), they can use Lesnar instead.

I think guys like Benjamin and Edge (well not Edge but probably Benjamin) can be legit main eventers, but I also think Haas and Rene Dupree will main event someday. The problem is that people dont watch shows based on seeing stars of tomorrow they watch to see stars of today. So if SD were to get all those guys back, they'd still be out a credible main eventer without getting one back in return, and will again remind people that SD is the minor leagues, which isn't good.

True, but this would also FORCE the bookers of Smackdown to come up with something good. Think of the WWE in 1997 (compared to WCW). At that time, the WWE was clearly inferior. However - guys like Austin, Foley, The Rock, Triple H, and Kane all emerged. You had Taker, Shawn Michaels, and Owen Hart as your seasoned vets to put guys over.

Same thing here - now.....you'd have Taker, Angle, and Show. Guys like Dupree, Suzuki, Cena, RVD, Edge, and Benjamin can then emerge.

I'm not sure one way or the other about Orton as a promo guy. He seems decent enough, but he's obviously not on par with a guy like Rock, but then again who really is?

When Rock was first cutting promos as a singles guy he was green, he had a decent line or two, but he had to work on it for a while before he became "the most electrifying man...". I cant say forsure if Orton will be good, but I think he has potential.

The difference between him and say Kurt was that people were happy to boo Kurt, heck even as a babyface they had to work in the "You Suck" chants as part of his babyface schtick. With Orton, they are just flat out chanting his name, its impossible to be a proper heel when that is happening (ask Austin, ask the NWO). Edge was supposed to be a babyface in that match with Orton at Vengeance, but he looked like a fool with most of the crowd cheering for Orton. Wait till that happens in Toronto, well maybe it wont happen here, but it would be funny if it did.


Those "Randy!" and "Lets go Orton!" chants would be pretty cool, but I'm not sure if it will work.

One reason why Angle got over as a face, was because he was "pro American" and "pro WWE" (at the time when the WWE was fighting with the alliance). Basically - the fans could relate to Angle as a face on a certain level. He represented them.

With Austin --> He represented the 'common man'. A badass that hated his boss!

Hogan --> The "All American" hero

Foley --> The Underdog

The Rock --> Hilarious guy.

Benoit/Guerrero --> Guys who 'paid their dues' and got to the top.

How will the fans "relate" to Orton as a face? THAT is one of my concerns. After the first 6 weeks/2 months, will the novelty of Orton's face turn wear off? Take a look at Edge right now.


The other thing with Angle and even HHH as babys is that the WWE totally screwed both out of their runs. HHH was getting massive pops (from the HHH returns fromt he dead push) and they tuirned the pops into poop (sorry lame joke), and then a month after winning the title, he was totally jobbed out to Hogan and made to look even weaker. That pretty much killed his babyface run. I dont know, he might have failed as a babyface anyway, but the booking ensured that he failed. With Angle, if you ever question Angle's ability to get over as a face watch Invasion again and the lead up to that. People were nuts for Angle when he was playing a kick ass babyface, and whats ironic is that with 9/11 happening a few months after that I think he could have taken over from Austin/Rock as the next big star in the company. Unfortunately they went back to the comedy stuff, and again that killed him. So, its unfair to use Angle's run as a babyface against him when there was horrible booking involved.

I agree on both accounts here. I always wondered what would be of Triple H had he been pushed right.

As far as Angle goes, you're also right about that. However - I would have preferred to have seen Jericho be pushed at that time. In my opinion, Jericho should've defeated Austin at Summerslam 2001. The storyline was all set (they had a feud going, and Austin had taken out Jericho's buddy Benoit a month earlier). I think Angle's face main event push at the time was way too premature.

If Orton goes baby and is put in an angle focused on dog crap and he's wearing a Sumbrero and playing the guitar, then no he wont be a successful babyface. If on the other hand he still comes off as arrogant, cooler than sh#t, and kicks HHH's ass then he probably will get over.

Maybe. I have my doubts though. Usually - a cocky face needs to have the ability to rip on someone on the fly (like Jericho, Austin, Cena, and The Rock). Maybe Orton can develop this through time. ???

As for being preoccupied with HHH, its not your fault its like watching a Pamela Anderson movie and saying the only thing I remembered was her chest. Its not your fault, thats all the movie makers wanted you to focus on.

I'm somewhat pre-occupied with Triple H, because I honestly don't know (or didn't know?) which face would 'rise up' and take him on at Mania.

[The CyNick]

Actually with Benoit, he's getting the type of run I figured he'd get. He's carrying around the title (slightly longer run then I predicted), but in no way is he THE top guy. However, with RVD I dont think they'll even let him carry around the title and work main events.

Lesnar wont be back for a couple of years. I dont think there's any chance he'll be back for Mania this year because he'll be still looking for a football job. I think after next year's training camp (so summer 05) he might consider a comeback because he'll have gone over a year without a WWE payday and he should have a better idea of where his football career is. So the way I see it, Mania 22 is the earliest we'll see him back.

WWE in 97 had fewer stars compared to WCW, but they got lucky by having Rock and Austin blow up. I dont think SD has a guy even close to Rock and Austin level of potential. And anyway, the problem is, even if a guy like Cena does get over, he'll be brought over to RAW so HHH can prgram with him.

[Heyman]

The ENTIRE Evolution turning FACE

I've mentioned this idea in the past, but what if the entire Evolution turned face?

-Triple H, Ric Flair, and Randy Orton all get good face reactions (and Batista would as well if Evolution made the clear-cut turn).

-As faces, a guy like Orton could take on a returning Christian.

-Batista and Kane could lock horns as well.

-Kane and Christian could become more 'prominent' as heels.

-Perhaps guys like Edge and Shelton Benjamin can get re-packaged as heels (I'd still argue that their face characters are "bland"....and that a heel turn might liven up their characters a bit. It's always easier to garner heel heat). I 'd also love to see Jericho go back to his heelish ways (to complete the balance between heels and faces on Raw), but it would probably be too soon.




My reasoning for this idea, is that I believe that Orton could actually work as a face.....if he still had Evolution with him. I also believe the same to be true with Triple H.

Without Evolution, I don't think Orton and Triple H would be THAT popular as faces long-term (in the past, Triple H has proven that the crowd aren't nearly as receptive towards him when he's by himself).

Could Evolution, as faces, garner "DX-like" popularity?

I also feel that breaking up Evolution would be a mistake (gut feeling).

[The CyNick]

Well they are being turned face just because there are no strong babyfaces who the fans can get behind. Edge is on the fence, seems like the girsl like him, but he's not setting the world on fire. Benoit is strong, but he doesnt have that extra umph to make him an overwhelming babyface.

Evolution is getting like the NWO in WCW (I would say DX is a poor comparison) where the fans are desperate to cheer for a babyface, but because of certain people Evolution always does the ass kciking, so they are going to get the cheers. Its booking 101.

Now that said, I dont know if they should turn them. It would be easy to tunr Evolution (just go with what the fans want) but at the same time, then you have to turn half the roster. Namely Benoit, Jericho, Edge and so on. That would take a lot of work.

I still think the best thing to do is to turn Orton, he becomes the great hope for the fans, and instead of getting beatdown like everyone else, he would actually stand up to them.

I heard something on the LAW last night that made sense. What if they were to have Edge go into a program with HHH, then he ends up joining Evolution, and they dump Orton from Evolution. Then Orton can be the one to go through all members of Evolution and ultimately take down HHH.

[Mr. Nerfect]

As retarded as the WWE are, I don't think they'll put JBL in the title match at Mania. The only reason why JBL is champ right now, is to give Smackdown a CREDIBLE mid-carder for the future.....when business picks up again. With Angle, Show, and Lesnar out, it's actually not a bad idea to have JBL as champ.

Once guys like Angle and Show come back, JBL gets demoted. Because JBL was champ however, he looks more "relevant" as a mid-carder.....a good quality to have when putting over faces such as Cena, RVD, etc.


Kane/HHH seems ok, but who'd be face and heel? Like I said - I think it's pointless for HHH to turn face before Mania. The guy who ultimately goes over HHH, needs to beat Triple H in his truest form (i.e. his 'heel self). That's the only real way that it will have any real meaning IMO.

The Kane thing COULD work if pushed right. But then again - this is the WWE so I wouldn't count on it.

Yeah, I agree with you on the JBL comment. At the moment he is a good choice for Champ. I think it could actually be better for the company then we believe.

I would say Kane would make the face. He'd dominate the Royal Rumble, and eventually scare Evolution so much that they'd be too "scared" to interfere in the match against Triple H. Kane would dominate, then maybe we'd see Triple H turn face against Evolution.

[Heyman]

Well they are being turned face just because there are no strong babyfaces who the fans can get behind. Edge is on the fence, seems like the girsl like him, but he's not setting the world on fire. Benoit is strong, but he doesnt have that extra umph to make him an overwhelming babyface.

Agreed.

Evolution is getting like the NWO in WCW (I would say DX is a poor comparison) where the fans are desperate to cheer for a babyface, but because of certain people Evolution always does the ass kciking, so they are going to get the cheers. Its booking 101.

Agreed here as well....and yes, the comparison to the nWo is a better one.

Now that said, I dont know if they should turn them. It would be easy to tunr Evolution (just go with what the fans want) but at the same time, then you have to turn half the roster. Namely Benoit, Jericho, Edge and so on. That would take a lot of work.

Edge and Benjamin can be turned easily in my opinion (because they hate Evolution so much, they start sucking Bischoff's dick.....since Bischoff would also be at odds with a face Evolution). Along with Kane and Christian, that would be 4 main-event (or potential main-event) heels, which would counter Triple H, Orton, and Batista. Shawn Michaels would make it 4 a piece.

As far as Benoit and Jericho is concerned, I also think that one of them can be turned.

Let's say the following happens: Jericho and Benoit come out day (after Evolution have turned face and after Edge/Benjamin have turned heel), and call out Edge.

Edge comes out. Benoit and Jericho publically ask Edge as to why he is sucking up to Bischoff. Edge then talks about how he is seeking opportunity. He has no love loss for Bischoff, but he hates Evolution. He talks about how Evolution has been holding everyone back....including them.

Edge then tries to convince Benoit and Jericho to 'see the light' so to speak....and take advantage of Bischoff's preferential treatment. Edge then poses the question, "what's the lesser of the two evils? Being with Bischoff?....or being Evolution's b</>itch?.

Edge then leaves the ring......with Jericho and Benoit pondering the situation.

Later on that night, a tag match is made:

Jericho/Benoit vs. Edge/Christian.

During the match, Jericho turns on Benoit! Edge hits the spear for the victory! After the match, the three men beat on Benoit. Edge then also gets Jericho to shake hands with Christian.


:?:

Not sure if something like this would work, but I think it would be interesting.

Bischoff could create his own "Team Bischoff" consisting of:

-Jericho
-Christian
-Edge
-Shelton Benjamin
-Kane

The main opposition to "Team Bischoff" would be Evolution, Shawn Michaels, and Chris Benoit.


The members in "Team Bischoff" could take turns main-eventing, while the same concept could occur within Evolution.

The 'theme' of Raw could revolve around Team Bischoff vs. Evolution?

:?: .................. :n: ?

:::waits to get flamed::: :-\

[The CyNick]

Its way too many turns. It'll be like WCW in 99/2000, after a while nothing means anything.

Plus, if you do that, you'll still have Benoit-HHH as the main program on the show, maybe with Edge thrown in there, so there's no progression.

Plus, Orton is still buried behind HHH. At leats if Orton turns, he can get up to the top level with HHH for as long as HHH lets him be there. And then Orotn as a face can fued with all the Evo guys.

I could see maybe turning say Edge and then Benjamin down the line, but to switch all of those guys right away, its just too much.

[Loose Cannon]

yeah, with the way Orton is getting pops right now, you HAVE TO turn him babyface and put him against all odds (Evolution, Bischoff) and make him overcome them. It would be like Rock right before he joined the Corporation. Remember how Vince kept trying to keep him down and then he kept overcoming the odds, until he turned on the fans.

I say Orton is the main guy right now who they have to watch how they book. He is the guy that will be like the Rock and Austin, although I don't think he'll ever draw as much as they did or amount to the heights they did. But he is their X-Factor, if you want to call him that.

[Heyman]

Its way too many turns. It'll be like WCW in 99/2000, after a while nothing means anything.

Plus, if you do that, you'll still have Benoit-HHH as the main program on the show, maybe with Edge thrown in there, so there's no progression.

Well actually - If Trips turned face (and Benoit stayed face), then they'd be on the same side (atleast in my scenerio :-\ ). Jericho, Edge, Christian, Kane, and Benjamin "take turns" in the main-event spotlight under Team Bischoff (or maybe just Jericho, Edge, and Kane).

Plus, Orton is still buried behind HHH. At leats if Orton turns, he can get up to the top level with HHH for as long as HHH lets him be there. And then Orotn as a face can fued with all the Evo guys.

True...true. I guess what I was thinking, was that Evolution could somehow be more "co-operative". For example, let's say Triple H beats Benoit at Summerslam, but then drops the title to someone (not Orton) at Mania. After Mania, Orton "steps up" and goes after the guy who beat Triple H.

Triple H supports Orton. I guess this goes against Triple H's character of "being champ at all costs", but I still think it would be interesting to see Evolution work as an EXTREMELY cohesive unit. No dissension, no nothing (atleast for a year longer or so).


Assuming that "Team Bischoff" can stay co-operate (while Evolution does the same), then perhaps all of Jericho, Orton, Batista, and Edge can all have World title reigns within a two year time span.

It does sound very unrealisitic, but the idea of this does fascinate me.

If you have no 'pecking order' within the ranks of Team Bischoff and Evolution (and everyone co-operates), then you pretty much eliminate the glass ceiling. A whole slew of guys can potentially win the World title, while the Evolution/Team Bischoff feud still remains in-tact.



I could see maybe turning say Edge and then Benjamin down the line, but to switch all of those guys right away, its just too much.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. Remember the night when the alliance (WCW and ECW) formed? That night in Atlanta Georgia, the ENTIRE WWE roster turned face, while many WCW/ECW alumni wrestlers turned heel.

Granted - the angle that followed that night sucked ASS, but the WWE still did a good job in turning everyone.

[The CyNick]

Thats a totally different thing though, that was all the WWE guys gettign together to fight off the WCW guys. What you're talking about is turing half the lockerroom heel to join Bischoff after you've turned Evolution babyafce. Like I said, the fans would be very confused .

[Heyman]

Thats a totally different thing though, that was all the WWE guys gettign together to fight off the WCW guys. What you're talking about is turing half the lockerroom heel to join Bischoff after you've turned Evolution babyafce. Like I said, the fans would be very confused .

Yeah I agree.

Anyyyyyyyyways, I'd much rather see Orton still be in Evolution until Wrestlemania (as a heel stable).....but that's just me.


As far as Edge and Benjamin go? Although Edge's current character is SLOWLY starting to get better (he impressed me last night with his match against Orton and promo against Orton), but I still think he needs to add that extra 'something' to his personality to REALLY get the fans behind him (perhaps being more like his OLDSCHOOL original self?).

I'm still not completely sold on Edge, but he's warming up on me.


As far as Shelton Benjamin is concerned, what do you think of the idea of him being more "Ken Shamrock/Joe Fraizer" like? (a very serious, intense, and resilient competitor that lets his actions do the talking).

I have a feeling that the fans would buy more into Benjamin if he had that gimmick. I don't know about you guys, but he kind of comes across as.......gay........when tries to act 'cocky' or 'smug' in the ring (and when he smiles and stuff).