John Cena (Smackdown Spoilers)

[Mayo]

Has John Cena been pushed too much lately? He has been made to look almost invincible since winning the US title. He has been in many gauntlets where he faced 3 or 4 other opponents and always comes out on top. His past feud with General Manager Angle is something that is worthy of the WWE champion, where the GM is obsessed with going after the top face. On this past Smackdown, he kicked out of like three opponent's finishing moves, and beat two guys before finally losing in a sneaky fashion to Booker. I am surprised that they didn't put the US title back on Cena, but I think that it is finally time for him to move to the ME because he has been pushed much too high as of late.

[Kane Knight]

If they want to take an over wrestler and make him look strong, do you know a better way to do it?

[James Steele]

He got pushed WAY too fast. He will go up to the main event and fued with angle after Eddie/Angle's fued is over. That would be the most logical step.

[Kane Knight]

I don't know. I wish they'd do bigger pushes for more people who are that over.

Now if only they didn't tone him down so...

[Mayo]

If they want to take an over wrestler and make him look strong, do you know a better way to do it?

Make it for the WWE title because this makes the US title seem more important than the WWE title if the GM is trying so hard to take it from Cena. They don't have enough contenders for the WWE title since there are some possible ones stuck in the US title scene.

[Funky Fly]

He is doing a pretty good jorb and is way over. I like that "The champ is here" line. I keep thinking of one Cassius Clay when he says it. He just needs to do more of the freestyling and less of the stereotypical-loud-black-guy-who-is-actually-white-but-still-acts-black.

[Kane Knight]

Make it for the WWE title because this makes the US title seem more important than the WWE title if the GM is trying so hard to take it from Cena. They don't have enough contenders for the WWE title since there are some possible ones stuck in the US title scene.
I don't know. Didn't the GM go to great lengths to strip Eddie and keep it off him?

Granted, the storyline's not as developed, but does Eddie really need to get over at this point?

[John la Rock]

John Cena fucking sucks right now. What's with all this "The Champ is here" Ali ripoffs?

He's a good talent but he's become so stale lately

[James Steele]

Its called "Gimmick is out of gas".

I am suprised it lasted as long as it has.

[#1-norm-fan]

I was actually think how Cena is being misused. I've preached countless times about how guys (Most noteably The Rock) are "pushed" as huge faces but seem to lose about half their matches. It really just makes it seem like "... How does a guy who loses so much stay in the main event." It's like HBK back in '96. He lost VERY rarely. So rarely that I can remember perfectly the only loses he had that year were against Vader, Bulldog, and Owen @ International Incident, against Vader and Jim Cornette with Jose Lathario on Raw, and against Sid @ Survivor Series for the title. When a face is being pushed right, each little loss is actually memorable because it's so huge. (Hogan and Bret would be some other good examples.)

Now... they are somewhat doing this with Cena and it's working out well. I think he withstood alot tonight with all the finishers he took and all. But this was a good time to maybe have him be counted out and then have Booker pin RVD. I don't really think it was necessary for him to be pinned. The title would have changed hands regardless. I dunno.

[Mayo]

I don't know. Didn't the GM go to great lengths to strip Eddie and keep it off him?

Granted, the storyline's not as developed, but does Eddie really need to get over at this point?

Thats exactly my point, KK. If they did the same thing with the WWE title before, than doing it with the US title devalues the WWE title.

[Kane Knight]

Howso?

The only inherent value is as a prop for storylines.

Angle didn't want "bad" champions holding belts.

[The CyNick]

Well Rock is one of the top 3 draws in the history of the business, and he did a ton of JOBs. People will still believe in a guy as long as they are made to look strong after a JOB and they can get over on promos. Cena has been able to do both those things, so JOBs haven't hurt him. Plus, when he loses, its usually in a manner where he is out numbered.

I think they plan on moving him up the card. Some of the house shows have Cena against JBL for the WWE Title, so it looks like they want to move him up pretty soon.

In terms of timing the dude is over, he's probably the most over guy int he company right now, he's going to be in a movie next year, seems like the right time to push him to the moon. Will it work? Who knows? But you have to take these chances.

[Mayo]

Okay well who is the top face on Smackdown, Cena or Eddie?

[Corkscrewed]

In terms of crowd reaction, I might go with Cena. If they plan on moving him up, then what they've been doing is perfect. To me, he looks too good to be a midcarder. That kind of stuff main eventers doing... overcoming the odds every time.

Don't forget that he's been in a WWE title match... I think he's being pushed at the right rate. It's his time, and he should step up. I'd also prefer he act a little more heelish, but what he's doing right now works, so why gripe?

[Mayo]

I agree with what you are saying Corky, and my argument was that I didn't think that a US champ should be made to look invincible like Cena. It is a good way to push someone into the ME scene, but I was just proposing that it may devalue the WWE title when the US title scene looks more important.

[Kane Knight]

I agree with what you are saying Corky, and my argument was that I didn't think that a US champ should be made to look invincible like Cena. It is a good way to push someone into the ME scene, but I was just proposing that it may devalue the WWE title when the US title scene looks more important.
... Or, it may make it look like it's an important stepping stone to the WWE championship, something the midcard belts really used to be.

[Corkscrewed]

I agree with what you are saying Corky, and my argument was that I didn't think that a US champ should be made to look invincible like Cena. It is a good way to push someone into the ME scene, but I was just proposing that it may devalue the WWE title when the US title scene looks more important.

That's true, but consider this: Most of Cena's superwins have come recently, when the WWE Champ was... JBL. I think it was devalued enough when Bradshaw won it, so frankly, it's a smart move (IN THIS CASE) to focus your attention more on a wrestler who deserves it. Now, if Eddie had been champ still, I'd agree with you. However, in this case I'm right. :p (not really, but it's a point to consider :))

[Kane Knight]

You';re always right.

Wait, that's Nick.

[Mayo]

... Or, it may make it look like it's an important stepping stone to the WWE championship, something the midcard belts really used to be.

Yeah, smart move by the WWE. Wait, did I just say that? It's been a while.

[Mayo]

That's true, but consider this: Most of Cena's superwins have come recently, when the WWE Champ was... JBL. I think it was devalued enough when Bradshaw won it, so frankly, it's a smart move (IN THIS CASE) to focus your attention more on a wrestler who deserves it. Now, if Eddie had been champ still, I'd agree with you. However, in this case I'm right. :p (not really, but it's a point to consider :))

Yeah, I don't know if I'm cheering for Taker to win it or not, because he will probably hold it for quite a while. This won't necessarily be a bad thing because it will mean more when someone takes it off him. If JBL retains, it will probably be due to interference, so Taker will feud with the interferer (if thats a word), and JBL will probably face Eddie again or maybe Cena.

[Corkscrewed]

Taker HAS to win. I don't care if he holds it till Wrestlemania... it'll bring a lot more credibility back to the belt.

[Loose Cannon]

Well Taker and Cena are garnering the most viewers on Smackdown with thier respected segments. So those two are the key guys. So, I wouldn't see why they wouldn't put the belt on Taker.

[LK]

I can definetly see them putting the belt on Taker. He is the best draw on Smackdown so putting the belt on him would make sense.

[The CyNick]

I'd put the title on Taker, just so they can it on Angle, because I think he'd be the best choice for champ at this point if he was healthy. The way I see it they need to have a heel champ within the next 3 or 4 months that will be able to carry the title into Mania and then drop it to a worthy babyface (ie Eddie or Cena).

Even though Ive been entertained by Bradshaw, I dont think he's the guy to carry the title all the way to Mania.

However, if Taker isn't going to turn around and drop to Angle, then I dont see the point of giving it to him. Afterall, I think Taker will be a draw on TV with the title or without it.

That said, I think the WWE plans to keep it on Bradshaw for the near future.

I haven't heard of any early plans for Mania when it comes to the WWE title, but I would assume they will want either Eddie or Cena challenging for the title. Unless they do something like I suggested a while back where you have Eddie or Angle as champ and Benoit jumps from RAW to challenge for the title.

[Kane Knight]

Yeah, smart move by the WWE. Wait, did I just say that? It's been a while.
It feels funny, doesn't it?

[Mayo]

Well Taker and Cena are garnering the most viewers on Smackdown with thier respected segments. So those two are the key guys. So, I wouldn't see why they wouldn't put the belt on Taker.

Because its WWE logic :p

[Londoner]

For some reason i see JBL beating taker at summerslam, and then Cena facing JBL for the title at the next PPV, but i hope he gets a new finisher before he wins the WWE title, if he wins the title with an FU that just wouldn't seem right.

[MVP]

Cena vs. Angle or Eddie at WMXXI with Cena going over would be an excellent WWE title match.

Preferably Angle because I'd rather not see Cena go over Eddie.

[Batsu]

I only see three problems with Cena.

1) I like the "rapper" gimmick, but he needs to go back to pushing the envelope and acting like that guy in school you thought was an asshat. Basically, F the FCC; beep what you have to, but let Cena be that same guy he was when he was a heel...one of his edges was the fact that he was challenging people that the fans thought to be out of his league (Lesnar, Taker)...he's risen above that now, but it seems that in a way the character is kind of complacent. With the loss of his US title, things are starting to change.

2) His matches. Through the Bret/Flair arguments and any other popular wrestler that has a routine set of moves, it's been well established that matches tend to excite less when you know what's going to happen. Somehow, The Rock manages to make his People's Elbow the most hilarious part of any of his matches to this day... but on the other hand anyone who has seen a Rock match since 2000 knows what was going to happen in a Rock match. Punch x 3 + the Smack Down, Spinebuster...possible People's Elbow, several Rock Bottom attempts and perhaps the good ol' BOOT...DDT. Cena's matches are getting to be the same way. He has a "taunt" finisher (5 Knuckle Shuffle), several signature taunts ("Pumpin' Up", etc.), a strike combo, and recently he has added the BOOT...DDT to his repertoire. It's almost as if they're really trying to make him The Rock II. The difference between him and Rock though, is that Cena doesn't throw a "wrench" move....a move that will make close watchers of the matches say "WTF?" because the wrestler doesn't do that often. With Cena, it might as well be a vertical suplex. Stone Cold was throwing a lot of "wrenches" as a heel in WWE (but WCW Austin fans would laud it as a return to his roots). Rock had "wrenches" from time to time (Figure 4 Leglock, the "Takin' A Crap" Sharpshooter before he decided to put it in every match, the Fisherman Suplex, and his old finisher, the "Layin' The Smackdown" DDT)... but Cena really doesn't have too many of these.

3) His finisher. The F-U is a great name, highlighting his feud with Brock Lesnar (if Lesnar ever returns to WWE, I want to see him vs Cena). However, the finisher... really isn't all that great. In 1985, people would be hootin' and hollerin' to see this move, but in 2004...pro wrestling has moved on. In the ultra-safe world of WWE, there isn't much room for improvisation (wrestlers have taken to ripping off the finishers of other, more recent WWE wrestlers as a result)... though, why Marc Mero's TKO (as Bryan Fury delivered it in Tekken 4) hasn't been resurrected as a countermeasure to Brock's F5 is beyond me. John Cena should use this move, or a Samoan Driver (Fireman's Carry to Michinoku Driver II) as the new "F-U" or something. Cena has pulled this move off on Big Show and The Undertaker, showing it's versatility, but obviously Cena can't be doing a move like this everynight. Kurt Angle's Olympic/Angle Slam was like this in the beginning, but now it's become a move synonymous with Angle...it really fit his character (a whirling take on a routine, throwback wrestling move? Genius). The F-U only really goes with Cena's character in name. The Protoplex/Blue Thunder Bomb/whirling Ruby Frosion/whatever he uses is cool, too...but I see it used in the same way as Booker T's "Book End" secondary. Cena just needs more of a roughneck finisher, I feel...

[Kane Knight]

Agreed. his finisher is shit, and he needs to go back to the edge. If the FCC doesn't like it, I gots two worrrrrrrrrrds for them...

Sorry, I think I just channeled the ghost of entertaining programming.

[The CyNick]

With the FCC, you cant fight them. I mean whats better for the WWE letting Cena do harder raps or staying on the air? Its not a tough choice. Yeah it sucks for his character, its just like Homer learned; you cant fight the souvenier industry we're too powerful.

As for a move set, I could literally call an entire Hogan match myself (so could a chimp mind you), but he's still one of the top 3 guys in the history of the business. So I dont think a limited move set matters for anything. He may never have a ton of 4 1/2 star matches, but that doesn't really mean much when it comes to money.

I agree with the thing about his finisher being weak, but again so is the Leg Drop, and people still mark out for that today, so.

[James Steele]

Cena's finisher sucks completely. The TKO would be awesome, but that dangerous by WWE standards so thats a no. I can't think of a "WWE Friendly" Finisher for Cena that would not still be shit. Anything would be better than the F-U but....


DAMN YOU VINCE :rant:

[Kane Knight]

With the FCC, you cant fight them. I mean whats better for the WWE letting Cena do harder raps or staying on the air? Its not a tough choice. Yeah it sucks for his character, its just like Homer learned; you cant fight the souvenier industry we're too powerful.

As for a move set, I could literally call an entire Hogan match myself (so could a chimp mind you), but he's still one of the top 3 guys in the history of the business. So I dont think a limited move set matters for anything. He may never have a ton of 4 1/2 star matches, but that doesn't really mean much when it comes to money.

I agree with the thing about his finisher being weak, but again so is the Leg Drop, and people still mark out for that today, so.
Actually, you can fight them. If a pissant little independent radio station like Radio Free Brattleboro can fight the FCC, then a media "giant" like the WWE certainly can.