Coincidence?

[Fox]

Does anyone else find it strangely coincidental that Randy Orton could become the youngest WWE World Champion in history this Sunday, dethroning the newest member of the Minnesota Vikings, Brock Lesnar?

We all know Vince McMahon has a huge ego, and his feelings have to be more than a little bit hurt after Brock left him that way. McMahon gave him everything: an "undefeatable monster" gimmick, 2002 King of the Ring, 2003 Royal Rumble winner, a WrestleMania main event victory, and clean wins over stars like The Rock and The Undertaker. Then Lesnar leaves him like a one night stand.

It could just be coincidence, but I've got a hunch that Mr.McMahon is doing this on purpose.

Thoughts?

[James Steele]

Do I crave way too much attention? Does Loose Cannon have crappy photoshopped pictures of Randy Orton's head on Torrie Wilson's playboy pics? Does Triple A hate me? Does Funky Fly remind you of Ahmed Johnson only completely different?


Does that answer your question?

[Cruiserweight 3:16]

I doubt that's the reason for the title switch. Orton's been pushed to the moon even when Lesnar was around. McMahon must see drawing potential in Orton if him winning the World Heavyweight title at Summerslam is to occur.

[Fox]

Yes, but it was only days after Lesnar was officially signed that rumors about the Benoit/Orton match came about. Before that, it was going to be Benoit/Edge or Benoit/Triple H.

[Cruiserweight 3:16]

i think you're reading too much into it. Orton would win the title this year even if Lesnar was still around... it's just likely to happen sooner than everyone expected.

[Kane Knight]

I think it's more about Orton's mad popularity at this point. They were already pushing him bigtime.

[James Steele]

Well, CW316 had a point. Vince isn't that big of a dickhead, since technically Brock is still under contract with the WWE, IIRC. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Plus, that "record" is a double-edged sword.

[Fox]

I really don't think we have any idea how big of a dickhead Vince McMahon is.

[Loose Cannon]

I still don't think he'll win tommorrow. He's losing to Benoit on House Shows and sometimes those are preludes to the out come of the big match on TV. There has been no build what so ever, but still, this is the WWE, where building matches is brain surgery sometimes. I think Benoit wil retain, but Orton will come ever sooooo close to winning the Title, which makes the fans gain respect for him and thus beginning his babyface turn.

[James Steele]

I think Vince is not such a prick that he saw Brock sign with the Vikings and go "I am not going to let that son of a bitch be the youngest champ ever!"

Otherwise alot of records/milestones would be broken by now.

[Loose Cannon]

Also I'm positive JBL is retaining tomorrow because Heidenreich (sp) will interfere and cost Taker the match. So, Orton might take the Title because they might not have two Champs retain on the same show..... OR Orton might lose because they won't have two heels getting victories in World Title matches. I don't know.

[Fox]

But the anger Vince is feeling right now has to surpass almost anything that's ever happened to him. Vince is the king of wrestling, and he always gets what he wants. You know he wanted Brock to stay with the WWE and become the new #1 guy (the next Rock or Austin). But after everything Vince did for him, Lesnar still left.

Vince can't take anything back that he gave to Lesnar. The title victories, the WrestleMania win, the Royal Rumble win, the KOTR. But he knows he can remove Brock from history as the "youngest WWE champion of all time." And he wants to do it now.

[Kane Knight]

I still don't think he'll win tommorrow. He's losing to Benoit on House Shows and sometimes those are preludes to the out come of the big match on TV. There has been no build what so ever, but still, this is the WWE, where building matches is brain surgery sometimes. I think Benoit wil retain, but Orton will come ever sooooo close to winning the Title, which makes the fans gain respect for him and thus beginning his babyface turn.
Orton (To triple H): You're just jealous that I came closer than you did.

[Kane Knight]

But the anger Vince is feeling right now has to surpass almost anything that's ever happened to him. Vince is the king of wrestling, and he always gets what he wants. You know he wanted Brock to stay with the WWE and become the new #1 guy (the next Rock or Austin). But after everything Vince did for him, Lesnar still left.

Vince can't take anything back that he gave to Lesnar. The title victories, the WrestleMania win, the Royal Rumble win, the KOTR. But he knows he can remove Brock from history as the "youngest WWE champion of all time." And he wants to do it now.
Does this really get back at Lesnar?

[El Santo]

Wait a minute. Where does this "Angry Vince" theory come into play? I thought he was in full support of Lesnar in the first place. With the WWE hurting for attention in the public spectrum, having a former wrestler in a more mainstream arena like the NFL can't be a bad thing.

Plus, I don't think that Vince is so foolish enough to think that, if he perceived that Lesnar did indeed backstab him, that Orton wouldn't do the same thing if given the opportunity. I also think this is another result of the Orton momentum: Vince is ready to push new stars to the moon (beginning with Lesnar, in fact), and that's why Orton's got the title rub.

Frankly, I see it as yet another case of the WWE needing a storyline and recycling yet another old one.

[Kane Knight]

Wait a minute. Where does this "Angry Vince" theory come into play? I thought he was in full support of Lesnar in the first place. With the WWE hurting for attention in the public spectrum, having a former wrestler in a more mainstream arena like the NFL can't be a bad thing.

Plus, I don't think that Vince is so foolish enough to think that, if he perceived that Lesnar did indeed backstab him, that Orton wouldn't do the same thing if given the opportunity. I also think this is another result of the Orton momentum: Vince is ready to push new stars to the moon (beginning with Lesnar, in fact), and that's why Orton's got the title rub.

Frankly, I see it as yet another case of the WWE needing a storyline and recycling yet another old one.
It's a demonstration of wild speculation becoming fact in someone's mind.

But you're right. Lesnar making it ina real sport would give the WWE at least a small shot in the arm. MAkes 'em look a little less like the joke they are in popular opinion.

Brock's most likely gonna be back. I don't see why Vince would want to create animosity with a guy who will likely return.

[Fox]

Brock has been neglecting to sign WWE merchandise because that part of his life is "over."

Look, I'm not saying that by having Orton win the World Title that Vince would be shooting Lesnar in the ass or anything, but it takes Brock out of a prestigious place in WWE history. Obviously it wasn't a blind decision made out of anger that caused Vince to (possibly) put the belt on Orton, as the kid is red hot right now, but I think Lesnar may have had a little bit to do with it.

[LK]

I am not sure about this right now. Orighinally I thought Orton would win but now I am thinking Benoit will win. It's difficult to predict. I didn't think JBL had a chance of beating Eddie and we know how that went. I am now confident that JBL will retain the title. He might not beat Taker but he will retain the title.

[The CyNick]

It has nothing to do with Brock.

Triple H wanted to do Orton-HHH at Mania XX, but was convinced it was too early. Its been clear for a long time that Orton would win the title in a short time. Since he started out at a younger age he was destined to be the youngest champ in history. I think that would have happened regardless of what Brock did.

[James Steele]

Indeed, LC is even saying Orton loses in the OFFICIAL SUMMERSLAM 2004 THREAD started by me! [cheap] [/shill]

[Mayo]

This is the stupidest idea that I have ever heard. Brock left on good terms with the WWE, he told Vince straight out that he wasn't into it, and Vince would have no reason to do something like this. You read into this just a little too much. Orton is becoming huge, and Vince decided to capitalize on this. Nothing to do with Brock.

[Fox]

How can you say that Vince had no reason to do this?

I've said it a couple times already, even if Brock did leave on "good terms," McMahon has got to be pissed and hurt a little bit after everything he did for Lesnar. He made Brock into a star, and now Brock is using that bit of fame to get himself into the NFL.

I never meant that this is absolutely, definitely the reason why Vince put the title on Randy Orton. It was a theory, and maybe I'm wrong, but if you really think about it it makes sense.

[Batsu]

Part of what the author said, part of what Kane Knight said applies... at least as to what I think.

Vince has a history of harping on things that just didn't go right within the company. When Hogan and Savage left for WCW, we had the "Huckster" and "Nacho Man" (despite that being very entertaining). When Bret Hart left, it was made into an angle, which was repeated the following year at Survivor Series. When WCW was absorbed within the company... well, we all saw what happened there. They even put a guy who didn't get over in WWE in the first place over Brock in his final match with WWE!

I don't think that taking away Brock's boastable position was the sole reason that Orton was given the title; though to take that mantle away from Brock Lesnar, who seems to be making progress in the NFL (at least moreso than expected) is something I wouldn't put Vince above doing. This is most likely a case of WWE looking to "shake things up" by putting the title on new faces. It began with the unexpected wins of Benoit and Guerrero for the titles.... then went on to "WTF?" cases like Orton and (especially) JBL. Unfortunately, while I don't think Orton will run after a year or two, this is indeed jumping the gun. (I thought John Cena would get the brand's top title before Orton did, considering he's been skating along on a roll for over a year)

When WWE realizes that the formula to making another Rock, Austin, or HHH isn't as simple as they think it is...


...anyway, WWE now is sorta like what it was in the mid 90s, when they lost their top draws to the competition. You'll see unconventional champions (Bret, Yoko, etc...) and a general downturn in the business.

[Aussie Skier]

I think its 2 birds with one stone.

Pushing a really top young wrestler, and.....
erasing the record of lesnar

The WWE wins on both counts

[Thriller]

Yes, but it was only days after Lesnar was officially signed that rumors about the Benoit/Orton match came about. Before that, it was going to be Benoit/Edge or Benoit/Triple H.
Did you ever stop and think that this was the plan from the get go.That the reason Orton lost the IC to Edge (who really isnt over) ruining the longest reigning IC champ bit was so the could put the World title on him.

[Quick1]

I agree with Mr. Sunday Night

[Quick1]

Oh yes KK that was a retarded post *rollseyes*

[Kane Knight]

When WCW was absorbed within the company... well, we all saw what happened there. They even put a guy who didn't get over in WWE in the first place over Brock in his final match with WWE!
They also put Goldberg over Triple H and a majority of the talent on Raw. This was ALL despite his failure to "get over."

So pardon me if I seem a little dense, but how is it special that they opted to put him over a guy who was leaving (though it looked bad for Goldberg continuing)?

Goldberg was WCW. By your logic, he should have been buried anyway. Instead, he was pushed over the bosses' own son in law. He was pushed over established talent.

[Corkscrewed]

Hold on a moment... I still don't get how people say that Orton has been overpushed or pushed to the moon or whatever like it's a bad thing. Yes, he's been pushed faster than most, but some people are like that. He's been here, what, two years? Maybe a bit more? To my recollection, Undertaker won the WWF Title within two years, didn't he? Correct me if I'm wrong, of course.

He's been pushed at a pretty steady rate. Personally, I think he won the title a bit too soon (Survivor Series would have been better) but he's still a more credible champ in my eyes than JBL.

You gotta be pretty damn petty to "get back" at Brock in this manner. If he wanted to get back at him, he'd use the Austin treatment (ala when he walked out, everyone told him to get the F out). Vince is a smarter guy than that.

[Gone Mad]

I doubt Orton getting the title was to get back at Brock. You might as well say Spike getting the CW title was to get back at him (though if Spike gets the World Title then we will talk).

I still think RKO got the title alittle early but we will see how he does over time. And either way, if it wasn't Orton, it would be Shelton or Edge or hell, maybe even Batista would have gotten that title (and still my boy Jericho would have nothing..saddd..). Only time will tell but I hope the guy does well and mind you, I am not a big Orton fan.

[Kane Knight]

Hold on a moment... I still don't get how people say that Orton has been overpushed or pushed to the moon or whatever like it's a bad thing. Yes, he's been pushed faster than most, but some people are like that. He's been here, what, two years? Maybe a bit more? To my recollection, Undertaker won the WWF Title within two years, didn't he? Correct me if I'm wrong, of course.
You've got a good point.

Well, sorta. I can sum it up in about 8 words. There is no fixed formula for pushing superstars.

Let me ellaborate a little. You can say that Taker got his title shot that early, and he was pushed, but Orton isn't the Undertaker. If one size fit all for wrestlers, why was there a huge slump before the attitude era? Why hasn't there been another Rock, Hogan, etc.?

Not every person can play out every scenario equally. People were complaining about Orton being overpushed. I doubt you would have heard the same thing about Taker. It worked for him. The fans ate it up. With Orton, they were nearly put off him entirely for a while there.

[Batsu]

They also put Goldberg over Triple H and a majority of the talent on Raw. This was ALL despite his failure to "get over."

So pardon me if I seem a little dense, but how is it special that they opted to put him over a guy who was leaving (though it looked bad for Goldberg continuing)?

Goldberg was WCW. By your logic, he should have been buried anyway. Instead, he was pushed over the bosses' own son in law. He was pushed over established talent.

Whoops, that line was supposed to be in the stuff with Brock. I had edited the post and forgot to move it.

what I meant to say was.... when Brock up and left (after being pushed to high hell), they put a WCW icon over him. That was Vince's way of crapping on something he couldn't control. I was surprised Vince went that far (even if they both got Stunners afterward).

[Kane Knight]

Except it's Goldberg. It's not your avergae WCW star. It's someone he pushed heavily his entire time in the WWE.