View Full Version : If Chelsea won the Premier League title...
Kid Robb
01-01-2005, 04:36 AM
Would that be enough to make Jose Mourinho the best manager in the world?
After his work with Porto last season in the CL, now this year dealing with all sorts of egos and having cut and replaced quite a few players from last years squad. Who better?
The Mackem
01-01-2005, 10:04 AM
I could win the Premiership with Chelsea. Can't be bothered though
I don't even think he is in the top two in the Premiership, nevermind the world.
Wengerland
01-01-2005, 12:17 PM
If he won successive premierships and another cup then i'd maybe consider him to be the best, did very well at Porto but the money he's spent, though he has every right to, tends to cloud my view of Chelsea's achievements now, but like i say, a couple of trophies and he'll be up there in my book.
packt up
01-01-2005, 12:36 PM
He's good and personally I think he's been a breath of fresh air but seriously the guy needs to have a bit of longeivity before we start calling him great and best in world and stuff like that.
Mr. Monday Morning
01-01-2005, 01:36 PM
atm I would say Capello but he's well on his way
I do like him but quite frankly he has had a lot of money to spend. I really just like him cause of the things he says.
Can't discredit him for having money hes still started brillaintly at Chelsea and its not like he spent over the odds at Porto to make them good.
El Capitano Gatisto
01-01-2005, 04:09 PM
He's a great manager. Not every manager who spends a lot of money wins competitions. Mourinho has built a team at Chelsea, not a collection of individual big names. However, the structure was laid down by Ranieri before Abramovich even arrived, and he had Chelsea performing well in the league before the revolution there.
Mourinho has a long way to go before he is called the best, however. He's certainly had a great start, with the UEFA Cup and Champions League already under his belt. Winning a major championship would be another step towards it.
Kid Robb
01-01-2005, 10:38 PM
There's an art to getting all that talent to mesh, even with all the money that's been spent.
Who would be considered better at this point?
The Mask
01-01-2005, 10:41 PM
You could argue porto got where they did by cheating, and Chelsea.. well. They're rich as fuck. I won't begrudge him anything though cause he seems top, and I've agreed with pretty much everything I've read from him.
toxic rooster
01-01-2005, 10:54 PM
There's an art to getting all that talent to mesh, even with all the money that's been spent.
Who would be considered better at this point?Teams like Everton and Arsenal who are challenging for honours without having spent a whole lot of money (purchase of Reyes being an exception)
You could argue porto got where they did by cheating, and Chelsea.. well. They're rich as fuck. I won't begrudge him anything though cause he seems top, and I've agreed with pretty much everything I've read from him.
Kinda agree but at the end of the day though, the record books only show who won what and not how they did.
Teams like Everton and Arsenal who are challenging for honours without having spent a whole lot of money (purchase of Reyes being an exception)
Sorry I forgot Henry and Bergkamp cost nothing and Sol Campbell wasn't getting 80k+ per week.
toxic rooster
01-02-2005, 05:10 AM
Henry was hell cheap, and before Reyes came our biggest transfer was 12 mil for Wiltord.
You could argue porto got where they did by cheating, and Chelsea.. well. They're rich as fuck. I won't begrudge him anything though cause he seems top, and I've agreed with pretty much everything I've read from him.
Fuck me United fans aren't half whiney about Porto, if you were better then them you would have gone through, Roy Keane acting like a moron was a bigger reason you went out, why don't you mention that instead of how Porto 'cheated'. Neville dived against Man City and got nothing for it and then did one of those girly headbutts on McManananananaman, Scholes dived and got booked against Chelsea last year at Old Trafford, should have got booked later on and would have missed the F.A cup final, Rooney dived Vs Arsenal, and they are just the examples I can think of off the top of my head. Fuck off with your cheating when you lot do it all the time, does that discredit Ferguson's acheivements? No of course not because everyone has twats who cheat.
Mourinho didn't have a world class team at Porto, he had great tactics and used his players well. Greece in the Euro's were similar, they had a good tactic and used it well. Ranieri made some real shit purchases, and wasted players he bought by not playing them, like Parker and Cole mainly. Tiago is shit but Mourinho sticks to players he bought, and we are top by five points, he has done a better job with signings and league positioning.
And Kid Robb, he didn't have to deal with all sorts of ego's at Stamford Bridge, just three, Hasselbaink, Veron and Crespo.
packt up
01-02-2005, 07:50 AM
Teams like Everton and Arsenal who are challenging for honours without having spent a whole lot of money (purchase of Reyes being an exception)
lol what.
To put Evertons transfer spending in the same sentence as Arsenals screams bias.
Pires? Bergkamp? Henry? Sol Campbell? Lauren? Reyes? Kanu? Wiltord?
All cost 5mil plus (barring Campbell but you know what I mean)
Name me one Everton player over 5milion.
Just cos you spend less than Chelsea doesn't mean you spend shit all.
toxic rooster
01-02-2005, 08:12 AM
comparatively speaking, son.
all about context.
Mr. Monday Morning
01-02-2005, 09:24 AM
There's an art to getting all that talent to mesh, even with all the money that's been spent.
Who would be considered better at this point?
atm I would say Capello
Can't really argue with a guy who's won the Italian league 5 times, the Spanish Liga once (in his one season in charge of Real Madrid), and the European Cup/Champions League/whatever. Also now in charge of Juventus who are likely to win the Scudetto and are still in the Champions League.
Granted he's only coached big teams (AC Milan, Real Madrid, Roma, Juventus) but he worked his way through the system at Milan from the youth team and it'd be crazy for him to manage anything but top teams now. Plus he built up Roma from something of a shambles to league winners before he left.
Yeah I think MMM has pretty much hit it spot on with Capello, looking at the work he has done at clubs. Mourinho did a good job as assistant at Barca, obvious did a great job at Porto and I think he is only 43, which is very young for a manager. He has years to prove he is the consistantly the man, I think in five years he will be the best manager in the world.
El Capitano Gatisto
01-02-2005, 12:41 PM
Henry was hell cheap, and before Reyes came our biggest transfer was 12 mil for Wiltord.Henry cost £10 million. Bargain considering what he has become, but a huge gamble at the time, considering how shit he was at Juventus.
El Capitano Gatisto
01-02-2005, 12:49 PM
Can't really argue with a guy who's won the Italian league 5 times, the Spanish Liga once (in his one season in charge of Real Madrid), and the European Cup/Champions League/whatever. Also now in charge of Juventus who are likely to win the Scudetto and are still in the Champions League.
Granted he's only coached big teams (AC Milan, Real Madrid, Roma, Juventus) but he worked his way through the system at Milan from the youth team and it'd be crazy for him to manage anything but top teams now. Plus he built up Roma from something of a shambles to league winners before he left.Capello is a great coach, but with Milan, especially, he was coaching a team built on the back of huge success with Arrigo Sacchi.
Roma spent quite a lot of money, too, signing players like Batistuta, Samuel, Cassano etc. for around the £20 million mark, which is why they are in such a shite state now.
Alex Ferguson deserves to be mentioned in any discussion about the world's best managers/coaches because of his record in Scotland and England.
Other names I'd put forward are Ottmar Hitzfeld, Marcelo Lippi, Giovanni Trappatoni.
The Answer
01-02-2005, 01:01 PM
Fuck me United fans aren't half whiney about Porto, if you were better then them you would have gone through, Roy Keane acting like a moron was a bigger reason you went out, why don't you mention that instead of how Porto 'cheated'. Neville dived against Man City and got nothing for it and then did one of those girly headbutts on McManananananaman, Scholes dived and got booked against Chelsea last year at Old Trafford, should have got booked later on and would have missed the F.A cup final, Rooney dived Vs Arsenal, and they are just the examples I can think of off the top of my head. Fuck off with your cheating when you lot do it all the time, does that discredit Ferguson's acheivements? No of course not because everyone has twats who cheat.
Mourinho didn't have a world class team at Porto, he had great tactics and used his players well. Greece in the Euro's were similar, they had a good tactic and used it well. Ranieri made some real shit purchases, and wasted players he bought by not playing them, like Parker and Cole mainly. Tiago is shit but Mourinho sticks to players he bought, and we are top by five points, he has done a better job with signings and league positioning.
And Kid Robb, he didn't have to deal with all sorts of ego's at Stamford Bridge, just three, Hasselbaink, Veron and Crespo.
:y: :y: Totally agree.Im a Porto fan and a Man U fan so that leaves me in the middle.Ruud get's away with alot as well.I wouldn't classify Tiago as shit though he is just getting accustomed to the Premier league style
El Capitano Gatisto
01-02-2005, 01:06 PM
Tiago looks toss, to be honest with you. Even if he isn't accustomed to the league yet, there's no way he should have been in the side ahead of Scott Parker, who is a brilliant player.
Alexei Smertin is better then the both of them, but the fact that Parker and Smertin both get stuck in is just one thing better about them two then Tiago. Tiago also can't pass very well and is a giant pussy. £8 Million for him was a joke, if it wasn't for the fact he cost that, and that Mourinho signed him and he is Portagese, he would be rotting in the reserves.
packt up
01-02-2005, 01:30 PM
Yeah seriously everytime I see him I'm like he's ok but then there are better options in the squad never mind the fact that Chelsea could sign anyone they want.
He's average by the looks of things but I'd still give him time.
Unless you sign Stevie Gerrard then I'd wave him goodbye :shifty:
He is not OK, he is far from it, it kills me to see Smertin not even make the bench alot of the time, when he should be a first team regular, everyone knows Tiago is a joke, the only reason we have a song for him is because it fits his name, and we only sing it because we don't like Arsenal, not because we like Tiago, I have only met one Chelsea fan that actually likes him.
packt up
01-02-2005, 01:35 PM
comparatively speaking, son.
all about context.
Well then thats a stupid comparison.
Why don't you just compare Arsenal to the GDP of the UK and then say they spend less than the UK economy. Both are equally ridiculous.
packt up
01-02-2005, 01:38 PM
He is not OK, he is far from it, it kills me to see Smertin not even make the bench alot of the time, when he should be a first team regular, everyone knows Tiago is a joke, the only reason we have a song for him is because it fits his name, and we only sing it because we don't like Arsenal, not because we like Tiago, I have only met one Chelsea fan that actually likes him.
lol I stand corrected.
OKKKKK maybe he's not "ok" for Chelsea but in the greater Premiership kinda standard he's "ok" - as in he'd still get into a few Premiership midfields I reckon.
Yeah he would do, but he isn't good enough to play for us, he scores the occasional goal and has the occasional good shot, does the occasional good thing, but games like against Liverpool show how shit he is. I don't even mean the handball, that has nothing to do with it, his game as a whole is aweful, how Mourinho didn't hurl him off at half time amazed me, then him leaving him on all game was just crazy.
Mr. Monday Morning
01-02-2005, 07:07 PM
Capello is a great coach, but with Milan, especially, he was coaching a team built on the back of huge success with Arrigo Sacchi.
Roma spent quite a lot of money, too, signing players like Batistuta, Samuel, Cassano etc. for around the £20 million mark, which is why they are in such a shite state now.
Alex Ferguson deserves to be mentioned in any discussion about the world's best managers/coaches because of his record in Scotland and England.
Other names I'd put forward are Ottmar Hitzfeld, Marcelo Lippi, Giovanni Trappatoni.
It's true he took over an excellent team but he also had to keep a high standard when he continually had to replace excellent players, Van Basten being a prime example. It'd be like Arsenal losing Henry to a career-ending injury now.
The thing with Roma is also true but I kinda liken that to what O'Leary did at Leeds - either you spend money and are successful or spend money, aren't successful, and fall into debt. I don't know if they let him spend money they didn't have but it's debateable whether if he'd stayed he could've steadied them financially (I'm thinking mainly through Champions League revenue) *shrug* shall never know.
The Answer
01-02-2005, 10:28 PM
Yeah he would do, but he isn't good enough to play for us, he scores the occasional goal and has the occasional good shot, does the occasional good thing, but games like against Liverpool show how shit he is. I don't even mean the handball, that has nothing to do with it, his game as a whole is aweful, how Mourinho didn't hurl him off at half time amazed me, then him leaving him on all game was just crazy.
How about defensively?
He can't time challenges very well, my main problem with him defensivley is that he doesn't get stuck in, he isn't up for a battle, he is abit of a girl. He'll sometimes win the ball and do something good, he isn't total shit or anything, just Smertin and Parker are more reliable and have played better then him.
The Answer
01-03-2005, 11:20 PM
He can't time challenges very well, my main problem with him defensivley is that he doesn't get stuck in, he isn't up for a battle, he is abit of a girl. He'll sometimes win the ball and do something good, he isn't total shit or anything, just Smertin and Parker are more reliable and have played better then him.
It looks like Parker might go to another team as he along with Joe Cole are both being rumoured to leave now that the transfer window has opened
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