I just watched Raw

[Ferocious]

from the 9th of August '99

Fucking Hell WWE used to be awesome back then.

Gangrel = Ratings

Rock is a god on the mic

Jericho's Debut was fucking brilliant

Austin Screwing HHH of of a No1 contender shot by whacking him with a chair and putting Chyna on top of him.

Undertaker and Big Show as a united force

APA still having symbols on their chest

Taker actually having the strength to make the Chokeslam look convincing.

The Start of the E & C/ Hardy's Brood/New Brood feud

Jesse Ventura colour commentary

Commisioner Michaels

Val Venis not jobbing

Jeff Jarrett Jobbing

It has put me off watching next week. :(

[Splaya]

Please post this show :(

[Ferocious]

How can I post a full show? I have nowhere to host it.

[Heyman]

If the WHEEL ain't broke, don't fix it eh?

Atleast that's what a wise man once said. :shifty:


Back then...

-No roster split
-No need to have excessively long matches that bored most marks.
-No half-assed attempt to push the CW division
-Progressive and semi-unpredictable storylines
-Hardcore title
-Decent stable feuds
-etc.,etc.,etc.

[Splaya]

http://s13.yousendit.com/


Ferocious go now :mad:

[Ferocious]

Oh in this show Blackman also challenged Shamrock to the Lions Den match and Al Snow stole pepper.

They seemed to get through so much in each show back then. The main event was the longest match and lasted 8 minutes.

[Ferocious]

http://s13.yousendit.com/


Ferocious go now :mad:
lmao that thing says up to 1GB.

Start using NewsServers, you come across this stuff quite often.

[Heyman]

What's TRULY amazing about the roster back then, was they didn't have anywhere NEAR the depth that they do now.


Godfather, Road Dogg, Mideon, Viscera, Mark Henry, Billy Gunn, etc. are all steaming piles of POO.


Think about it though.

-Godfather entertained the fans with his Schtick
-Ditto for Road Dogg
-BABG was 'over' due to his assocation with DX
-Mark Henry was a sex addict that supposedly fucked a guy (thanks to Chyna :))
-Mideon and Viscera were aligned with Undertaker's evil ministry.


In short, the WWE gave a REASON for the fans to cheer the POO.

Today?

-Who gives a fuck about Renee Dupree? I know he's a talented guy with a lot of potential, but do you think the average fan cares?

-Why should anyone care about Rhyno?

-Why should the people care about HALF of their fucking roster at current? :mad:

And no - "great wrestling ability" is not the reason why the fans ever have or ever will care about a wrestler. Think - Dean Malenko. Think - Ultimo Dragon.

-Any coincidence why the fans cared far more about Angle than Benoit up until last year?


Some so-called "smarks" and the WWE for that matter, really need to get a fucking clue IMO. :nono:


I guarantee that the fans would care more about Road Dogg Jesse James (if he came back to the WWE), then they EVER would about Billy Kidman or Paul London. It's sad, but it's true.

[Ferocious]

I agree whole heartedly, Together we must fight the good fight and make a Petition to get the WWE back to what it once was.

We good sign Carlito's if he signs ours. That would own.

[Heyman]

I agree whole heartedly, Together we must fight the good fight and make a Petition to get the WWE back to what it once was.

We good sign Carlito's if he signs ours. That would own.

I think a part of the reason why the WWE can't create interesting gimmicks nowadays, is because they (idiotically) broke kayfabe with their own product.


Now?

-It looks corny when the "Undertaker" has a casket match with people (seeing as how he BROKE KAYFABE with his character, etc. when the WWE showed him dressed in normal clothes on the plane to Iraq).

-It would look retarded if Stone Cold got "run over" by Rikishi

-It would look retarded if Kane was seeking revenge on his brother Undertaker for setting him on fire as a child.


The willing suspension of disbelief (a theatrical term) is now gone.....mainly because the WWE were the homosexuals that decided to break kayfabe with their product.

Because of the 'kayfabe break', the WWE have to use more "realistic" gimmicks (which can still look 'cheesy' now that the WWE has openly broken kayfabe).

Regardless - the more "realistic" gimmicks are usually more "boring".

Wouldn't you agree that pornstar Val Venis, Bizzarre Goldust, deranged Mankind, excessively cocky Rock, mysterious brood, schizio Al Snow, etc. were FAR MORE intriguing characters than the WANK STAINS that we see today?

[RemyRed]

Yeah it was, they should just strip all titles somehow and start over again, not entirely from scratch but just sort of make a fresh start. A good time to do this would be if they move back to the USA network. And yeah the brand split is retarded from both a business standpoint and a fans view. They're definately not going to care just as much for Smackdown as they are RAW. Smackdown's place and sponsors will always be secure since they're on the UPN network, nothing else could really surpass that show. RAW is on a cable network, and as of right now with the contract renegotiations they're gonna need some stronger rating for it, they should just end the brandsplit as it would make things much simpler for them. Backstage morale shouldn't be an issue anymore since the superstars on Smackdown are said to be unmotivated and not as upbeat about the product as they used to be anyway.

[John la Rock]

The good ol days :'(

[Boondock Saint]

I think a part of the reason why the WWE can't create interesting gimmicks nowadays, is because they (idiotically) broke kayfabe with their own product.


Now?

-It looks corny when the "Undertaker" has a casket match with people (seeing as how he BROKE KAYFABE with his character, etc. when the WWE showed him dressed in normal clothes on the plane to Iraq).

-It would look retarded if Stone Cold got "run over" by Rikishi

-It would look retarded if Kane was seeking revenge on his brother Undertaker for setting him on fire as a child.

The willing suspension of disbelief (a theatrical term) is now gone.....mainly because the WWE were the homosexuals that decided to break kayfabe with their product.

Because of the 'kayfabe break', the WWE have to use more "realistic" gimmicks (which can still look 'cheesy' now that the WWE has openly broken kayfabe).

Regardless - the more "realistic" gimmicks are usually more "boring".

Wouldn't you agree that pornstar Val Venis, Bizzarre Goldust, deranged Mankind, excessively cocky Rock, mysterious brood, schizio Al Snow, etc. were FAR MORE intriguing characters than the WANK STAINS that we see today?


:y: The Attitude era drew me in as a fan. Since then I've learned to appreciate good wrestling , however that is not what got me hooked in the beginning. The Ministry, DX, The Corporation, The Brood. Inferno matches. All that hooked me.

[Aussie Skier]

kayfabe needed to be broken I think.

I mean, i was watching the ECW PPV and hearing RVD talking about how good he was on that DVD sounded so stupid (he was speaking in character.)

Anyway, wrestlers are getting more real than ever so breaking kayfabe was always going to slowly happen.

In regards to the undertaker shown in a suit...COME ON!, you think he dresses in black everywhere...?


I think the WWE needs to make more realistic ppl with strong charisma (Christian, Edge, Mr. Benjamin) and less of these ridiculous characters who are just completly unbelievable (Mordecai :nono:, undertaker etc...)

[V]

Heyman = ratings

[Heyman]

:y: The Attitude era drew me in as a fan. Since then I've learned to appreciate good wrestling , however that is not what got me hooked in the beginning. The Ministry, DX, The Corporation, The Brood. Inferno matches. All that hooked me.

That's the thing though. While YOU may have learned to appreciate good wrestling (along with most others who've watched wrestling for a number of years now....me included), there's no way that most marks appreciate "good wrestling" over "good characters/gimmicks".

Think of why Olympic style wrestling isn't all that popular in the U.S. (and a lot of other places).


The way I see it,

Intriguing characters/gimmicks are far more important than pure wrestling ability. It's the 'gimmick/character' not the actual wrestling, which is the BACKBONE of sports-entertainment.

A lot of smarks will probably (vehemently) disagree with me on that, but I just don't see it any other way.

The last time I checked, Hulk Hogan and Undertaker are considered "wrestling legends." Lance Storm and Dean Malenko on the other hand, are barely known.



Another thing - which match do you think more people would be interested in seeing? (if they had to watch an OLD PPV match).


A) Hogan vs. The Rock Wrestlemania-18

B) STeve Austin vs. The Rock Wrestlemania 17

B) Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle (circa early 2003...Royal Rumble?).


I guarantee that 'C' would be the least selected choice........despite the wrestling quality being substantially higher.

[Boondock Saint]

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I miss the crazy gimmicks. Granted I missed the mid 90s WWF when there were some truely awful ones, but the Attitude Era, with the Minsitry sacrificing people and whatever else was just so awesome. The wrestling came second, which I still think should hold true today. The storylines are very bland while the wrestling itself as certainly picked up. There needs to be a good balance, or allow the storylines to outshine the action if they want to draw more people.

[Hired Hitman]

I miss the Darkside Heel Undertaker, he was good times :(

[Aussie Skier]

Think about the greatest WWE/WCW/WWF stars of all time:

Hulk Hogan - pro American big man - believable character
Ric Flair - Technically gifted wrestler, brilliant charisma - believable character
The Rock - Arrogance personified - believable character
Steve Austin - Typical guy (with a six pack albeit) - beleivable character.
The Undertaker - Dark man - not believable.


The majority of wrestlers who have been popular have not come in with cheesy berserker, shockmasteresque gimmicks.
They have been normal people who have tweaked their character slightly. These are the characters who should created. And if these chracters are created, then kayfabe can be broken to a certain extent.

[McLegend]

The last time I checked, Hulk Hogan and Undertaker are considered "wrestling legends." Lance Storm and Dean Malenko on the other hand, are barely known.
I agree with you complety except for this statement. The Undertaker is the best big man Wrestler ever IMO. He may not be has good has the Ice Man in the ring, but he is far better then Hogan when it comes to wrestling abilty.

Did you ever see Kurt Angle vs bad ass/biker Undertaker on SD? It was probaly the best wrestling match ever that was a non PPV match.

[Heyman]

Think about the greatest WWE/WCW/WWF stars of all time:

Hulk Hogan - pro American big man - believable character
Ric Flair - Technically gifted wrestler, brilliant charisma - believable character
The Rock - Arrogance personified - believable character
Steve Austin - Typical guy (with a six pack albeit) - beleivable character.
The Undertaker - Dark man - not believable.


The majority of wrestlers who have been popular have not come in with cheesy berserker, shockmasteresque gimmicks.
They have been normal people who have tweaked their character slightly. These are the characters who should created. And if these chracters are created, then kayfabe can be broken to a certain extent.

I agree with what you say, but even in these cases.

The fans care(d) far more about the gimmick/character/personality, than they did about the actual wrestler's ability.

[Heyman]

I agree with you complety except for this statement. The Undertaker is the best big man Wrestler ever IMO. He may not be has good has the Ice Man in the ring, but he is far better then Hogan when it comes to wrestling abilty.

Did you ever see Kurt Angle vs bad ass/biker Undertaker on SD? It was probaly the best wrestling match ever that was a non PPV match.

I agree with that.

I wasn't trying to imply that Undertaker's wrestling ability is as goo...er as bad as Hogan's. Taker is a better overall wrestler than Hogan.


However - neither man is anywhere near as good as Lance Storm or Dean Malenko in terms of pure in-ring ability.

Still - Hogan and Taker were/are waaaaay more 'over' with the fans.

[McLegend]

Just checking