DISCUSSION - Is the gap between the 'main' and 'secondary' titles getting to large?

[Ferocious]

I thought this would need a Heyman gimmick.

The question I pose is this. Are the WWE/World Heavyweight Titles to far infront of the US/IC Titles? and what kind of problem does this cause?

I think the main problem caused is that you have to many guys stuck between two divisions or 'steps on the card'.

I think Edge and Jericho are the most effected by this.

I personally think that Jericho and Edge are to good to be holding/challenging for the IC title. seeing them in this position (Jericho especially) is painful to watch.

Jericho was the first ever 'Undisputed' Champion this alone should really have elevated him above the IC Title for at least a good 6 - 7 years IMO. Yet after losing that title the next title I see him holding is the IC title. at this point in his WWE career Jericho has jobbed so many times to so many main event guys that he isn't credible enough without a massive build to be the World Heavyweight Champion.

Edge has had numerous IC Title reigns now. I believe he even held the IC Title not long after leaving the brood back in '99 or so. It's been 6 years since then. Edge should not still be considered as being in that IC Title division. Until recently I could not see Edge as a credible World Champ either. But he does seem to be getting there now.

There are numerous guys on the roster that are stuck in this position right now. Benoit and Orton have dropped back in there on Raw.

Cena has been there since the tail end of 2003 on Smackdown. Eddie has fallen back into this situation. Kane has done it numerous times.

John Cena should not in any shape or form be feuding with a guy like Suzuki. And Suzuki should not be getting squashed by Cena.

Is the reason these guys find themselves in this position now due to the WWE not pushing them beyond that 'secondary' title stage fast enough or is it down to not bringing other guys up to that secondary title stage fast enough?

[Fox]

I don't think it has as much to do with the main and secondary titles as it has to do with elevating new talent.

On RAW, the problem is obvious. While guys like Goldberg, HHH, Nash, and Michaels dominated the scene during the 02-03 year, its now being dominated by HHH, Michaels, Orton and Batista, ie. Evolution. It's very hard for guys who have earned their stripes (like Jericho, Edge, Benoit, etc) to get ahead of the game when the new guys (Batista and Orton) are getting that rub since they worked with Triple H.

On the Smackdown side of things, everything is just real, real fucked up. Non-deserving assholes like Kenzo Suzuki, Heidenreich, Mordecai, JBL, and Big Show are getting the main event spots while the more entertaining wrestlers are being held down. There isn't even a mid-card to speak of, on Smackdown, because of how haphazard the shows have been. Where does Booker T stand? He was feuding for the US Title awhile ago, now he's stranded in mediocrity. Same goes for Eddie Guerrero, possibly the hottest champion of 2004, who doesn't even have a strong storyline right now.

Still, we can't complain too much. While the Benoits, Jerichos, Booker Ts and Edges of the WWE are getting the boot, at least the Cenas and Ortons are getting a rub. Too bad that rub will eventually scratch the itch of the one man who never fails to be on top: Triple H.

[darkpower]

On the Smackdown side of things, everything is just real, real fucked up. Non-deserving assholes like Kenzo Suzuki, Heidenreich, Mordecai, JBL, and Big Show are getting the main event spots while the more entertaining wrestlers are being held down. There isn't even a mid-card to speak of, on Smackdown, because of how haphazard the shows have been. Where does Booker T stand? He was feuding for the US Title awhile ago, now he's stranded in mediocrity. Same goes for Eddie Guerrero, possibly the hottest champion of 2004, who doesn't even have a strong storyline right now.
I have to disagree. SmackDown has gotten better lately. For one, Mordecai isn't even on SD anymore, so I don't know if we should include him now.

JBL has earned some stripes as a heel character. Granted, he's still not the first guy I would've thought of to hold the WWE title, but for what it has been worth, he's shown that he can step it up, we all hate him, and that was the intended feeling that the WWE wanted us to have with that sort of character.

I think Kenzo needs to improve, but I'm willing to give him a chance. They need a better angle for him to do than for him to get constant squash matches. Heindenrich I can live with, since they gave him a great gimmick for him to do that he does really well (TOO well from what I saw last week :shifty: ). And if it means a resurrection of gimmick matches that I remember the Undertaker having (like that Casket Match. Brought back old feelings that I had when watching those in the past back to me), I'll welcome Heidenrich anyday of the week. Big Show is a good draw, but I don't know if they're using him the right way. Don't know if I can go further into detail than that, but oh well.

And Eddie DOES have a good storyline right now, even though it's not a main event storyline, and he is working with Rey and Booker T (which I'm very interested in). And I'm hoping that Batista does jump to SmackDown now (I haven't read the spoilers of SmackDown yet, as I make it a point not to read them. It makes the show better for me).

[Aussie Skier]

Depends which titles.

Personally, I think the US title is almost as valuable as the WWE championship now.
I mean, Cena has lost just 4 times in singles matches (televised) this year (booker T three times (including 1 US title battle royal thingy) and CCC), and i doubt hes lost many tag team matches etc... either.

It also appears that Cena almost owns the US Championship now!, so i think the US title has risen alot.

actually...hmmm, gives me a good idea 4 a topic

[Fox]

I have to disagree. SmackDown has gotten better lately. For one, Mordecai isn't even on SD anymore, so I don't know if we should include him now.

JBL has earned some stripes as a heel character. Granted, he's still not the first guy I would've thought of to hold the WWE title, but for what it has been worth, he's shown that he can step it up, we all hate him, and that was the intended feeling that the WWE wanted us to have with that sort of character.



With Mordecai, your point only makes my point even stronger - Mordecai CLEARLY wasn't ready for a feud with someone as big as the Undertaker, or else he would still be on WWE TV. They wasted a lot of vignettes and a lot of air time on this guy, when, had they considered it before hand, they would have realized he wasn't ready and given the spot to someone else.

My take on JBL is pretty similar - the guy wasn't ready to hold the WWE Title when he won it. Eddie Guerrero was on fire as the WWE Champion, and even though he was showing some signs of burnout, he was drawing and he was making himself a credible champ. His work rate is phenomenal and his climb to the top of the ladder was short lived before descending back to mid-card hell. I don't like the JBL push because it took away Guerrero's much more interesting and much more deserved push. Eddie can work a great match with anyone - JBL can't work a great match period.

[addy2hotty]

The fact is, when Guerrero lost the title, who else was there for him to lose it to? Angle was just coming back from injury, Cena was a face and the US Champ, Booker T was in a feud with Cena, RVD - face. They had just started the JBL gimmick and it was the best idea. But the writers only have themselves to blame for leaving them with no choice. A heel Jericho could have been on SD and a perfect person to beat Eddie, you could believe in him holding a title for a long time as he has before, but he's wasted on Raw.

JBL has done as well as he can do. I hate this 'stealing a win' thing going on in big title matches, but they can't do anything else as he's hardly credible as a threat. But he's a cowardly heel, he isn't supposed to be credible. He has a stable, that loses credibility immediately.

SD has a lot of work to do after WM. It looks like being a very poor SD side of the card, with the US champ vs the WWE Champ (a sign of the times).

My solution - move several mid-card Raw stars to SD. Jericho/Christian/Maven over. Have Christian immediately feud with new champ Cena on his arrival. Eventually have Christian as US Champ. Have Maven get close to the US Title and challenge the winner, perhaps RVD/Mysterio. Build Cena vs Jericho for a while, bring up Cena's victories as a rookie. Then have maybe a Summerslam/Survivor Series main event for the title. Have Jericho win. Could be like the great Rock - Jericho feud of a few years back.