NHL makes compromise offer

[Arashi Kage]

http://www.nhlcbanews.com/news/nhl_compromise020905.html

The NHL is prepared to accept the NHLPA's proposed CBA from December 9th, however, if any of these 4 conditions occur, the CBA immediately changes over to the NHL's proposed CBA from February 2.

Any one of four economic and competitive conditions would "trigger" conversion to the terms outlined in the NHL's February 2, 2005 proposal:


League-wide Player Compensation exceeds 55 percent of League-wide hockey revenues; or


The average of Club Payroll for highest three Payroll Clubs in the League is more than 33 percent higher than the average of Club Payroll for the lowest three Payroll Clubs in the League; or


Any three Clubs each have Club Player Compensation in excess of $42 million; or


League-wide average Player Compensation per Club exceeds $36.5 million.

[Splaya]

SO WAIT, WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS MEAN. ARE THEY PLAYING OR NOT????

[BCWWF]

??????

I hope theres a season, I :heart: NHL playoffs

[Splaya]

They should have a season

[Rain Man]

Why do we keep posting topics about NHL... Sorry I hate to say it too but there is going to be no season.. Believe me I love the playoffs and the Flyers but there is no way

[MVP]

I'd like to be able to watch a truncated NHL season just cause the playoffs are so intense, but it wouldn't be fair to consider the Stanley Cup win as prestigous as the previous years cause it wasn't a real season.

All I can say is I hope it comes back full-time next year.

[BCWWF]

Still, what does that original post mean?

[Arashi Kage]

:n:

Just saw on TSN.

The NHLPA, turned down the offer. You just can't win with them. The owners accepted the PA's offer, but they turn it down. I guess the PA knows that their proposal for a luxury tax system would not work, and the CBA would end up switching over to the NHL's Feb 2 proposal.

Bettman said that if no deal is worked out this weekend, it's game over. No season.

[BCWWF]

Players agreed to a 52 million cap, but it looks like its just too little too late :nono:

[VonErich Lives]

he problem is, the owners have the control to force the NHLPA's system to fail. All they need is 3 teams to go on a spending spree and they break it and get the deal they wanted.

I'm happy there's no season at this point, it would really suck, what 20-30games? That's be crap, there's be litttle or no camp or pre-season, just a bunch of players tossed together. Plus, most teams aren't complete because they didn't sign people due to the new CBA coming.

[Loose Cannon]

yea, they're pretty fucked. Goodnight.

Anyway, if they were to have a "season," I would love to see a knockout tourney featuring every team. 1 game elimination. Like the NCAA Basketball tourney. Winner = Champion of *2004/2005. Notice asterick.


That would rule.

[VonErich Lives]

yea, they're pretty fucked. Goodnight.

Anyway, if they were to have a "season," I would love to see a knockout tourney featuring every team. 1 game elimination. Like the NCAA Basketball tourney. Winner = Champion of *2004/2005. Notice asterick.


That would rule.

So, do they put 2004-2005 __________ on the trophy?

So, this would be end 2nd time there was no stanley cup finals.

Last time, 1919 (year after the sox won the WS). Gonna be another '86 years, ain't it?

[MoRcHeEbA]

I heard that was the plan if this season goes was to rather just do a tournament but a 3 or 5 game elimination because of the draft this year. There's also no way the NHL is gonna accept a cap at 52 million dollars because most teams don't even make close to that in a year. Off the top of my head Pittsburgh, Calgary and Minnesota's payrolls don't even top 35 million so it's stupid for the players to think that they're gonna accept something that high. I wouldn't be surprised if the NHL would accept something between 40-45 million but the NHLPA didn't offer anything with cost linkage that's why it was rejected.

[El Vaquero de Infierno]

Ahhhhhhhh well, it is likely tomorrow that the Commisioner is going to announce that there will be no season, at the news conference. Though that won't be much of a shock.

Damn Union... the leaders should be taken outside and shot.

[MoRcHeEbA]

I actually wouldn't be surprised to see it worked out today... the NHL doesn't want to cancel the season and the two proposals they have right now aren't exactally terrible for either side. Who knows though.

this is the offer the NHLPA offered yesterday:

A cap of $52 million but with provisions for teams to spend as much as 10 per cent more than that on three occasions in a six-year period, with a luxury tax incorporated. The luxury tax rates would be 25 per cent on $40-44 million; 50 per cent on $44-48 million; 75 per cent on $48-52 million and 150 per cent on $52-$57.2 million.

this is what the NHL offered:

A hard cap of $40 million, with a 50 per cent luxury tax on $34-40 million.

[Adder]

Amazing to see the PA propose any sort of cap offer considering all the rectoric they originally stated with a cap being a non starter.

[Splaya]

It's easy. The league wants 40 and the players want 52. Someone should just suggest 46.

[BCWWF]

Do it Splaya!!!

[Loose Cannon]

It would be very joyful to gamble on a 1 game elimination tourney. Anyone else agree?

[Splaya]

Fuck yeah. NCAA_tournament_style baby.

[BCWWF]

I love March :love:

[Gouda]

Just decide who gets to go in the playoffs with a shootout. :shifty:

[MoRcHeEbA]

NHL proposed their "final offer" according to them they have till 11 eastern tomorrow morning it's the same hard cap but they upped their offer to 42.5 million.

[BCWWF]

I don't know if anybody else saw it, but I watched Cold Pizza's 1st and 10 for a little today, and Skip Bayless had the worst changes to make for the NFL to be good again. Stuff like "Automatic ejection for fighting" "take out all the lines" and "No checking puck handler"

[Adder]

I say they are going to accept it. Then, I'm going to laugh at all these NHLers who said they'd never pay under a cap system, that lost basically a years pay for nothing gained.

[John la Rock]

I don't miss NHL hockey at all

[BCWWF]

PA just offered 49 mil...its a shame because if they had done this earlier they probably could have got it down to around 46 mil and gone with it. I hope the owners just accept it, how long does this CBA last anyway? ACCEPT IT! If they don't accept it now then the players might back off and fuck up next year.

[Arashi Kage]

I think that 45 will be the magic number. The current offer by the PA of 49 million shouldn't work well with the owners, mainly because 49 is the soft cap and salaries can escalate upto a hard cap in the mid 50's range.

The NHL made the final offer, but if it's clear that the PA won't accept 42, perhaps moving upto around 45,46 with no exceptions to increase beyond that limit will satisfy both sides.

I hope we have hockey, it may not mean much, but I think a short season could be exciting. During the course of a regular season, some teams begin the first 20 or so games strong, then end up missing the playoffs. A short season could create an interesting playoff picture, with some teams managing to make it who probably wouldn't last 82 games.

[BCWWF]

Yeah I think that if one side says 45 or 46, there will be a season.

[SuperSlim]

I don't thikn there will be a season this time.. at least there shouldn't be cause that will be messed up.

[asphyXy]

Just decide who gets to go in the playoffs with a shootout. :shifty:

:lol: Why the fuck did I laugh at this?

[Splaya]

Yeah I think that if one side says 45 or 46, there will be a season.

The league proposed a 44.7 million dollar cap, so with 12 minutes remaining, the ball is in the players court.

[The Outlaw]

Yeah, if they don't accept, bring in the replacements or something. Get these punks out.

[BCWWF]

Well the players really fucked themselves this time. They held out until the last second and then couldn't get a deal done, now its just going to get worse for them. If they had just been straight from the start we could have had a full season.

[MoRcHeEbA]

The league proposed a 44.7 million dollar cap, so with 12 minutes remaining, the ball is in the players court.


where did you read that?

[MoRcHeEbA]

nevermind, it wassn't actually a cap of 44.7 mill though it was a bonus structure for the other 2 mill that's why it wassn't accepted.

[BCWWF]

What next? You think the owners stick to a hard 40 mil cap until the PA accepts it?

[MoRcHeEbA]

I think they go lower now $37.5 and they're gonna bring in replacements and tell the players to fuck off.

[The Outlaw]

I think they go lower now $37.5 and they're gonna bring in replacements and tell the players to fuck off.
:love:

I'll still watch hockey...:love:

[El Vaquero de Infierno]

So, yeah, the season is officially cancelled. Shame, damn shame. :sad:

[John la Rock]

good

[VonErich Lives]

I think they go lower now $37.5 and they're gonna bring in replacements and tell the players to fuck off.

Bingo!

I bet you're going to see the union break, a lot of players the lower tier guys will cross because they will still make more in the NHL then the other leagues.

When it's all said and done, it will make the NFL Union look good, and I think we may also see 3-4 teams fold. Which is great for the sport, better quality of teams, the only way around it is loans from the teams who have money in the bank and don't have loans/mortgages to other nhl teams, which might happen, baseball has done stuff like that.

[Zen v.W.o.]

I dont think any teams need to fold to make the game better. Just new rules or a few tweaks to them.

But Bettman really sounded delusional here. He says nobody is to blame for this, and what is happening right now. Bullshit. If nobody was to blame and it was nobody's fault, we probably wouldnt be having this lockout problem now would we. I mostly blame Bob and and goodenow. Face it, the two sides came to within 5 million dollars apart. You cant agree to get something done? For a petty amount of cash?
And fuck if I go see replacement players..for the types of cash they want me to pay for a game. I will not. And if you're a smart person you wont either.

[House of Pancakes]

i can actually understand gary bettman's side. he was espn just now and he basically said, "the system wasn't working. we need to re-structure the system so that we can pay players what we can afford. i will not agree to a system where we're paying players money that we don't have." the owners offered what they could, is the way i feel.

[MoRcHeEbA]

yup, he said last night after the NHLPA offered their 49 million dollar cap that if every team went close to that they would be paying more money to players than they were last year.

[MoRcHeEbA]

I don't feel bad for the plyers or the owners but I feel for the 1000's of people who are gonna lose their jobs by the end of this week :(

[BCWWF]

If a team does fold it unfortunately could be the Wild. They still have like a 50 million dollar debt. I can't see them folding as they were one of the more successful teams in terms of attendance over the past few years, but it all comes down to the bottom line.

[MoRcHeEbA]

I wouldn't put the Wild at the top of the list... Teams that are gonna fold are most likely gonna be: Anaheim, Edmonton, Calgary, Carolina, Florida (panthers), Pittsburgh, Phoenix... I would put them all ahead of the wild but I would only think 2 at the most are gonna fold. The Ducks pretty much have their head in the guilitine the worst.

[VonErich Lives]

I dont think any teams need to fold to make the game better. Just new rules or a few tweaks to them.


Few teams, better quality, the only sport that needs it as much as hockey or more is Baseball, too many teams and not enough talent.

[Arashi Kage]

As long as we do not lose Calgary and Edmonton, I'm happy. Ideally, I'd like to see a southern team fold and move back to Winnipeg.

Bettman wants 30 teams, so under the type of system he wants, I'd expect every current team to remain where they are. If the league does have to contract, I'll say this, I've been a life long Pens fan, but I'll take the Penguins moving rather than see Canada lose any more teams.

At least we should see some good quality rosters at the World Championship this year.

[BCWWF]

Did anybody see the Gretzky interview on Sports Center? His eyes kept veering off to the left, it looks so weird.

[The Outlaw]

http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/nhl/2005/0216/photo/dj_stone_wtl.jpg


:(

[Zen v.W.o.]

I'm tired of being hopeful, but check out http://www.tsn.ca/

Seems to be something major brewing now. I hope so.

[MoRcHeEbA]

yeah I was watching TV last night at about 4 and they said then that there seemed to be something that could have everything in place, appearently the owners have been talking to player agents and having them make their union reps listen to them or something.

[Zen v.W.o.]

I really hope so. Not mainly just so we can have a short season, I dont care about that. But so that things are on track for next season.

[MoRcHeEbA]

I just wanna watch them pull the names for the draft and watch people get soooo mad when the New York Rangers get the first pick.

[Loose Cannon]

yea, heard something about "The Great One" doing something.

I love the tease only to bring the fans down again

[MoRcHeEbA]

just heard that it's a 45 million dollar cap with a luxary tax of 100% over 40 million so it's working well for the owners it would seem.

[Loose Cannon]

they are suppossed to meet tommorrow in NYC. The drama continues.

[The Answer]

Game on :y:

[VonErich Lives]

yeah, radio just said Gretzkey and Lemuix worked the deal out, 45mil cap. The "28 game season" is up in the air.

Personally, I hope they don't, I think a 28game season would do the league more hurt then good right now.

[Splaya]

RUMOR IS IS THAT THE SEASON IS ON

[asphyXy]

<b>New York Rangers</b>
28 game season
Jaromir Jagr, Bobby Holik, Darius Kasaparaitis, Tom Poti, Jamie Lundmark
If Dan Blackburn is healthy, they will be making the playoffs.

[VonErich Lives]

ESPN reports they met 9am to 3pm and still no deal.

Season is still off, no progress over 6hrs today.

[Gouda]

It's gonna be a swerve. Gretzky and Mario are going to turn on Canada.

[BCWWF]

Gretzky should just start his own league

[Loose Cannon]

It's gonna be a swerve. Gretzky and Mario are going to turn on Canada.

lol

[Zelda]

:'(

[MoRcHeEbA]

just heard on TV here that the NHL will not go over 32 million dollars as a cap number next year so it looks like they're out to break the union now.

[Zen v.W.o.]

Holy cow..man goodenow was an idiot, and the union is dumb as fuck for not just accepting the 42.5 mill.

[MoRcHeEbA]

Betteman and Goodenow are both idiots and I won't be shocked if one or both aren't around when this thing finally ends.

[Zen v.W.o.]

I agree with you. In fact I'm pretty sure they are both running on borrowed time right about now..they are on a very thin line.

Bettman and the owners have to understand though you should gradually bring the cap down..to start at 32 mill is a little asinine. 42.5 though was close enough to what the union thought was good..these fucking millionaires are bickering over millions. What's the difference if you make 7 mill a year or 3 mill a year...you are making damn good money for putting a puck into a net, and some of these players can barely even do that more then 5 times a season.

It's just so frustrating. Heck, I would play for 100,000 dollars if they wanted me to. It's a sport, I wouldnt moan every morning knowing that I have to go to "work" if I were one of these players. Lordy.

[VonErich Lives]

just heard on TV here that the NHL will not go over 32 million dollars as a cap number next year so it looks like they're out to break the union now.

Like we didn't know that from the begining?

Of course they're out to break the union, otherwise they would have come to a deal to save the season months ago.

Evenif the players agreed to a 42.5million cap the owners would have found another reason.

The question is now, do they save teams who can't survive or just let a few teams fold.

Also, if there is a 32million dollar cap, or anything under 40mil, how many of the older top stars will come back to play for 1/2 of what they made rather then retire or take less money and play hockey closer to home?

Maybe Vince will try the XHL!

[BCWWF]

What ever happened to that renegade league that had like one superstar and a bunch of trash? I remember St. Louis was like the top draft pick or something.

[Zen v.W.o.]

Didnt get up off the ground. Hell wasn't Travis Green like the 3rd pick or something like that?

[MoRcHeEbA]

yeah WHA "suppose" to go next year they say.

Betteman also said today on a radio interview that he felt the NHL was set up about the appearent "deal" that was in place over the weekend to make the NHL look bad.

As for the players coming back to make a portion of what they once did. Some right now are playing for about 20,000 a week and taking someone else's job, so they can really go fuck themselves as far as im concerned.

[VonErich Lives]

Ok, this keeps getting funnier.

The last meeting was called by the NHLPA, the NHL-Owners were done, once the season was canceled.

Gretzkey and Lemiux were asked/begged to be at the meeting by the NHLPA (even though both are owners, well, Lemiux is both). So they went.

Long story short, once there Wayne and Mario assumed the PA had a new offer, but they didn't, Wayne asked how they could bridge the gap on the cap (owners - 42.5M vs. PA offer of 49M) He was told "We're not ready to talk about that, until the other issues, arbitration, qualifiers and entry level are done".

So, the meeting was a waste of everyones time.

Gretzkey has told excatly what happened, so Bob Goodenow NHLPA head, has called Wayne Gretzkey a "Traitor".

Wow, could Goodenow burry himself any more?

What's the odds this guy offs himself rather then the life of shame?

[BCWWF]

Somebody said that this was just a plan by the PA to make the NHL look bad, and now I can totally see that and think its exactly what happened.

[VonErich Lives]

Somebody said that this was just a plan by the PA to make the NHL look bad, and now I can totally see that and think its exactly what happened.

Funny thing is, the NHLPA is saying the NHL did it to make the players look bad.

I think Gretzkey said something like "If bettman wanted another meeting, he would have called it before announcing the end of the season"

[VonErich Lives]

So, does EA sports skip a year? What if next season is scabs? that'd be funny if EA sports released the scab rosters!

[BCWWF]

I kind of want to buy ESPN hockey, just because I miss playing hockey games and it s so cheap

[MoRcHeEbA]

So, does EA sports skip a year? What if next season is scabs? that'd be funny if EA sports released the scab rosters!


I read that EA is actually simulating this season day by day and are gonna build the game for next year around that.

[BCWWF]

FSN Midwest has been simulating the Blues season and they show highlights on their FSN Midwest Sports Report, kind of funny.

[adamwwe]

I still can't believe an entire season was lost over a salary cap idea. God I hope the league brings in "replacements" next year. I use the term loosely because they'll mostly all be minor leaguers and NHLers who decide to play anyway. After a draft or two it'll be business as usual.

[MoRcHeEbA]

Yup the owners met yesterday and from what they were saying on TV up here it seems the owners plan to play in september no matter if there's a CBA or not. I say bring on the replacements though it will pretty much force the others back to work when they relize fans are going to make their choice for them.

[adamwwe]

Yeah hopefully this is the beginning of the end to this whole mess. The NHL will be in a rough patch for a little while probably, but I'm sticking with it.

Somebody made a pitch to buy the league at the BOG meeting for $3 billion. Ain't happening, but interesting.

[Bad Company]

LOL
Stupid crap.

[Arashi Kage]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=116886


I'm not crazy about the possibility of one owner for every team.

[Funky Fly]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=116886


I'm not crazy about the possibility of one owner for every team.
LOL Edmonton is pretty much boned if that happens.

[MoRcHeEbA]

it will never happen Toronto, New York, Colorado, Detroit will NEVER sell their teams, they're worth way more then 100 million which is all they would be getting for the team.

[BCWWF]

The article I read said that the top NHL franchises were about 400 million I think, and the lowest 80 million (Edmonton). It could happen, but I think I also agree and don't think that the successful owners will be wanting to sell.

[MoRcHeEbA]

lol where did you read that? there's no way edmonton is worth 80 million dollars.. the Buffalo Sabres were bought for 13 million 2 years ago and Ottawa was sold for about 25 million so I doubt that's very reliable. I doubt any team is worth more than 200 million and that's probably a high number.

[BCWWF]

Yeah my 400 mark was WAY off. I must have been thinking NFL or something..Anyway...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2003701

Before the work stoppage, the total value of the 30 NHL franchises was an estimated $4.9 billion, according to Forbes Magazine. The Detroit Red Wings topped the list at $266 million, with the Edmonton Oilers last at $86 million. The value of the arenas are part of the assessment.

[Gertner]

It would kill the nhl.

[BCWWF]

You never know though, it could save it, especially for teams like Edmonton, Ottawa etc who don't get much money as it is.

[BCWWF]

Something kind of funny I read in Sports Illustrated today...The owner of Chelsea FC, who has a bigger payroll currently then the Yankees, was considering buying the Canucks and stacking it with Russian players. Would have been interesting to say the least.

[MoRcHeEbA]

yeah word, then they sold half of the canucks to some locals. I remember canucks fans didn't want the russian guy to own them... I was all for it though :cool: