ECW Funeral (spoiler I guess)

[Stickman]

For the first time in over a year, maybe 2, quite possibly three, I was actually on the "edge of my seat" for a wrestling segment. I think that had to be one of the best promos of all time. I never saw much of ECW but this is just another reason for me to wish I had. Paul Heyman is gold when he wants to be.

Thoughts?

[Shaggy]

I really liked it....It was possibly the first time in a while where i stopped everything that I was doing just to pay close attention to the tv.

I like how they sorta gave a hint that if this thing goes through with success that ECW might be a regular thing. I hope that happens. And im gonna be pissed if they do that Bischoffs Team Vs Heymans Team at One Night Stand and then have Bischoffs Team win it.

[Pepsi Man]

I think it brought back some old magic.

I'm surprised by how much Vince McMahon (according to that) gave to ECW.

Also, not only Paul Heyman, but Eric Bischoff himself all but confirmed with that whole speech that Sandman and Sabu will be making appearances.

[Anybody Thrilla]

It kinda felt like the three men were actually saying what they felt when the whole WWF v. WCW v. ECW (to a much lesser extent) war was going on. It was an amazing promo. I liked how Vince was getting into the business side of things. It seemed like he wasn't playing "No Chance In Hell" Vince, but "I"m a Real Business Man" Vince. Which is what he is.

[PureHatred]

Greatness.

The only thing I minded was the fact that during the entire speech Vince (and the brainwashed fans in the live audience) celebrated killing WCW. :mad: Bastards...

[Pepsi Man]

It kinda felt like the three men were actually saying what they felt when the whole WWF v. WCW v. ECW (to a much lesser extent) war was going on. It was an amazing promo. I liked how Vince was getting into the business side of things. It seemed like he wasn't playing "No Chance In Hell" Vince, but "I"m a Real Business Man" Vince. Which is what he is.
Nah, somewhere deep down, Vince and Paul were pretty competitive in their own right. Bischoff also couldn't really bash the WWF/E, which made it kinda funny.

Mind you I'm a Bischoff mark. I found the whole, "There was ONE failed brand of wrestling..." comment hilarious. :o

[Pepsi Man]

Greatness.

The only thing I minded was the fact that during the entire speech Vince (and the brainwashed fans in the live audience) celebrated killing WCW. :mad: Bastards...
Of course Vince is going to celebrate killing WCW, and in most WWE territories, WCW WAS pretty hated. Look at the reactions for the WCW guys even before all WCW guys were heel, during the WCW vs. WCW matches on WWF programming.

[PureHatred]

Of course Vince is going to celebrate killing WCW, and in most WWE territories, WCW WAS pretty hated. Look at the reactions for the WCW guys even before all WCW guys were heel, during the WCW vs. WCW matches on WWF programming.

Pfffft. I'd argue that Erci Bischoff had more to do with WCW's demise than Vince did. As a matter of fact, I was kind of hoping Vince had said just that.

"You know Eric, ECW wasn't the only company you buried!!!"

[The One]

Eric Bischoff killed WCW? Are you insain? Vince Russo killed WCW. Ted Turner killed WCW. J.J. Dillion killed WCW. Kevin Nash killed WCW. Dusty Rhodes killed WCW. Eric Bischoff is the only person that did something RIGHT with that company.

[Pepsi Man]

Eric Bischoff killed WCW? Are you insain? Vince Russo killed WCW. Ted Turner killed WCW. J.J. Dillion killed WCW. Kevin Nash killed WCW. Dusty Rhodes killed WCW. Eric Bischoff is the only person that did something RIGHT with that company.
Russo didn't kill WCW. They were WELL on their way down when he was given any sort of power, and even then, most of his power was revoked/limited.

[PureHatred]

Eric Bischoff killed WCW? Are you insain? Vince Russo killed WCW. Ted Turner killed WCW. J.J. Dillion killed WCW. Kevin Nash killed WCW. Dusty Rhodes killed WCW. Eric Bischoff is the only person that did something RIGHT with that company.

No. Bischoff's creation of the nWO took the company to heights it had never known. But his running that idea into the ground and inability to tell guys like Nash & Hogan no when they ran their political games, and his refusal to use any of the young talent he had on his roster was a big reason that WCW went from hip and cool to dull and boring in the span of about 2 years.

You can't really think EB gets a pass for all his fuck ups just because he started WCW's upward swing? He was there when it went all downhill, too.

[The One]

He was there when the ratings started to shift, but it wasn't untill Vince Russo showed up in October of 1999 that the shit really hit the fan. Hel don't get me wrong, Eric Bischoff is an asshole, and that's no joke. Everyone seems to hate Bob Holly and about 20 other guys for being such a dick backstage, The Bisch is probably the worst and has more enemies then anyone else I could think of...but he knew what to do for good business. With Eric Bischoff in control at the start of 1999, ratings were at 5.7 at one point, then he lost control of the company on September 10, 1999 (WCW's darkest day), then about half a dozen bullshit bookers came and went with the blink of an eye, but here comes Russo and the highest ratings ever got after Russo took control was 3.5...which by the by was Russo's first appearance. So let's seriously think here...what killed WCW? The nWo or Judy Bagwell on a Pole...Goldberg or David Arquette...

Another interesting note...Bischoff's last Nitro scored a 4.1, the VERY NEXT WEEK, it scored a 3.3...and it would never pass the 4.0 mark ever again...infact after Bischoff leaves it would never pass the 3.5 mark, it would land dead on once, but never again. On another side note, RAW last week scored a 3.8...odd how Bischoff's ratings at one of the lowest points of his career are just as good as the flagship of the strongest brand of wrestling today...hmmmmmm

Now, who killed WCW?

[Pepsi Man]

He was there when the ratings started to shift, but it wasn't untill Vince Russo showed up in October of 1999 that the shit really hit the fan. Hel don't get me wrong, Eric Bischoff is an asshole, and that's no joke. Everyone seems to hate Bob Holly and about 20 other guys for being such a dick backstage, The Bisch is probably the worst and has more enemies then anyone else I could think of...but he knew what to do for good business. With Eric Bischoff in control at the start of 1999, ratings were at 5.7 at one point, then he lost control of the company on September 10, 1999 (WCW's darkest day), then about half a dozen bullshit bookers came and went with the blink of an eye, but here comes Russo and the highest ratings ever got after Russo took control was 3.5...which by the by was Russo's first appearance. So let's seriously think here...what killed WCW? The nWo or Judy Bagwell on a Pole...Goldberg or David Arquette...

Another interesting note...Bischoff's last Nitro scored a 4.1, the VERY NEXT WEEK, it scored a 3.3...and it would never pass the 4.0 mark ever again...infact after Bischoff leaves it would never pass the 3.5 mark, it would land dead on once, but never again. On another side note, RAW last week scored a 3.8...odd how Bischoff's ratings at one of the lowest points of his career are just as good as the flagship of the strongest brand of wrestling today...hmmmmmm

Now, who killed WCW?

I throw Goldberg in there with David Arquette and Judy Bagwell on a pole. :o

[The One]

You may not of liked Goldberg, but for the love of god, how can you say he was responcible for the demise of WCW? He was one of the biggest draws that company ever had. Goldberg put a hell of a lot of fucking asses in the seats. Don't think I am here singing the praises of Eric Bischoff and Bill Goldberg, but those two men DID make a shit load of money for Ted Turner. Period.

[Pepsi Man]

You may not of liked Goldberg, but for the love of god, how can you say he was responcible for the demise of WCW? He was one of the biggest draws that company ever had. Goldberg put a hell of a lot of fucking asses in the seats. Don't think I am here singing the praises of Eric Bischoff and Bill Goldberg, but those two men DID make a shit load of money for Ted Turner. Period.
When Goldberg was on his way to the top with his monster push, that's when Raw started to beat Nitro, and frankly, for WCW, it was pretty much downhill from there.

A lot of fans bought into and liked Goldberg, but a lot of fans tuned in and decided that if they wanted to see a bald guy with black trunks and black boots dominating the competition, they might as well check out a man by the name of Stone Cold Steve Austin.

[redoneja]

Does anyone have a talent list for One Night Stand?

[The One]

If that is the case, it is because of Goldberg's monster push people stopped watching, why is it that the highest WCW's ratings EVER got was a 6.0 on August 31, 1998...which...hold on let me take a look at my record book, oh yeah that's right Bill Goldberg was World Champ at that time wasn't he. Well damn, it sure is interesting that at the peak of it's popularity, the World Champion was driving people away...

Nice try Pepsi, but do a bit mroe homework.

[Pepsi Man]

If that is the case, it is because of Goldberg's monster push people stopped watching, why is it that the highest WCW's ratings EVER got was a 6.0 on August 31, 1998...which...hold on let me take a look at my record book, oh yeah that's right Bill Goldberg was World Champ at that time wasn't he. Well damn, it sure is interesting that at the peak of it's popularity, the World Champion was driving people away...

Nice try Pepsi, but do a bit mroe homework.
Dude, I'm not going to go and look for just ANY numbers that will make me look "right".

One highly rated show that also had plenty of other action does not a great draw make.

Hell, the show was headlined by Lex Luger and Sting vs. Hulk Hogan and Bret Hart, while Goldberg took on Al Greene.

[The One]

Oh come on Pepsi...do a little better. I told you to do just a little bit of homework...why couldn't you have gone and found out that RAW wasn't even on that week, and Steve Austin didn't even have a match...don't make me do both sides of the argument. Put your back into it. You wanted to prove me wrong, let's start there...so go ahead and point out what I just said and we can continue.

[redoneja]

Uh, talent list?

[Pepsi Man]

Oh come on Pepsi...do a little better. I told you to do just a little bit of homework...why couldn't you have gone and found out that RAW wasn't even on that week, and Steve Austin didn't even have a match...don't make me do both sides of the argument. Put your back into it. You wanted to prove me wrong, let's start there...so go ahead and point out what I just said and we can continue.
I don't REALLY feel like discussing the matter. It's been done to death. I don't care about proving you wrong. I really don't.

[The One]

Then do me a favor, don't start making statements that certain wrestlers who so clearly brought in huge bucks are the reason a company fails. If you don't feel like going into, that's fine, but the only reason you don't want to dive into this whole is because there is no way you can come out with proof that Goldberg was anything less then one of the few things that made WCW a success.

[Pepsi Man]

Then do me a favor, don't start making statements that certain wrestlers who so clearly brought in huge bucks are the reason a company fails. If you don't feel like going into, that's fine, but the only reason you don't want to dive into this whole is because there is no way you can come out with proof that Goldberg was anything less then one of the few things that made WCW a success.
When WCW died, Hogan was gone, Hall was gone, Bret was forced from wrestling, Savage was nowhere to be seen, the Radicals had all left for the WWF, Flair barely wrestled and was made a joke, and even Meng of all people decided to bolt.

Goldberg was still there, though, despite the fact that he hadn't competed in maybe two or three months as part of the "retirement" gimmick that the Magnificent Seven were doing. Come to think of it, that would've been a funny way for WCW to go out. Flair, Bagwell, Luger, and company all having another of those funerals.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

*fantasizes* :o

[loopydate]

redoneja, no talent list has been released yet.

But, just from the people that WWE has under contract, they can use (listed under their ECW name):

Al Snow
Bubba Ray Dudley
Chris Benoit
Chris Jericho
Dawn Marie
Dean Malenko
D-Von Dudley
Eddy Guerrero
Joey Matthews
Johnny Swinger
Juventud Guerrera
Lance Storm
Little Guido Maritato
Miss Congeniality
Nova
Paul Heyman
Psicosis
Rey Misterio Jr.
Rob Van Dam
Spike Dudley
Steve Austin
Stevie Richards
Super Crazy
Taz
Tommy Dreamer
Yoshihiro Tajiri

Plus, Sabu and Sandman were both mentioned by name during the RAW funeral. Take that for what it's worth. For that matter, so was Raven, but I sincerely doubt he'll be there, since he's still very much with TNA.

[Pepsi Man]

redoneja, no talent list has been released yet.

But, just from the people that WWE has under contract, they can use (listed under their ECW name):

Al Snow
Bubba Ray Dudley
Chris Benoit
Chris Jericho
Dawn Marie
Dean Malenko
D-Von Dudley
Eddy Guerrero
Joey Matthews
Johnny Swinger
Juventud Guerrera
Lance Storm
Little Guido Maritato
Nova
Paul Heyman
Psicosis
Rey Misterio Jr.
Rob Van Dam
Spike Dudley
Steve Austin
Stevie Richards
Super Crazy
Taz
Tommy Dreamer
Yoshihiro Tajiri

Plus, Sabu and Sandman were both mentioned by name during the RAW funeral. Take that for what it's worth. For that matter, so was Raven, but I sincerely doubt he'll be there, since he's still very much with TNA.
Sandman and Sabu were both mentioned BY Bischoff, so I would have to presume that they'll be there.

The Raven situation could prove interesting.

[loopydate]

Do you think maybe TNA came up with Raven's "quitting" angle to explain his appearance at One Night Stand?

Also, with this PPV looming, it makes their decision to release Rhino (THE LAST ECW CHAMPION!!!) that much more baffling.

Also, Mick Foley isn't technically under WWE contract anymore (I think), but he'll likely be there, as well. I want to see Danny Doring and Roadkill (the last Tag Team Champions) show up, too.

Hopefully over the next couple of weeks, Heyman will have the ECW Army start showing up on RAW and SmackDown to build up matches for the PPV (and introduce casual fans to guys like Steve Corino (PLEASE) and Mikey Whipwreck.

[diamondcutter]

That was clearly the highlight of RAW last night. It was truly surreal seeing all three guys in the same ring. I liked the interaction between Heyman and Bischoff---especially how when Heyman talked about the history of ECW, he was pretty fair by mentioning that neither WCW or the then-WWF did things like the hardcore style, technical wrestling or cruiserweights. He wasn't just beating up on WCW.

But the second Vince started talking, the bull**** came down in buckets. In Vince's mind, Eric "raided" talent, while he "signed" talent. Apparently, Bischoff and Turner went by the ECW Arena one evening, abducted Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Perry Saturn, Dean Malenko, Rey Mysterio Jr., Psychosis, and Juventud Guerrera, held them at knifepoint, and demanded they sign WCW contracts :roll: Meanwhile, Tazz and the Dudleys left for the then-WWF on their own.

By the way, did Tajiri and Rhyno come to the WWF after ECW folded?

[mike627]

That was clearly the highlight of RAW last night. It was truly surreal seeing all three guys in the same ring. I liked the interaction between Heyman and Bischoff---especially how when Heyman talked about the history of ECW, he was pretty fair by mentioning that neither WCW or the then-WWF did things like the hardcore style, technical wrestling or cruiserweights. He wasn't just beating up on WCW.

But the second Vince started talking, the bull**** came down in buckets. In Vince's mind, Eric "raided" talent, while he "signed" talent. Apparently, Bischoff and Turner went by the ECW Arena one evening, abducted Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Perry Saturn, Dean Malenko, Rey Mysterio Jr., Psychosis, and Juventud Guerrera, held them at knifepoint, and demanded they sign WCW contracts :roll: Meanwhile, Tazz and the Dudleys left for the then-WWF on their own.

By the way, did Tajiri and Rhyno come to the WWF after ECW folded? Tajiri and Rhyno did come in after ECW folded. :yes:

[Lara Emily]

Eric Bischoff killed WCW? Are you insain? Vince Russo killed WCW. Ted Turner killed WCW. J.J. Dillion killed WCW. Kevin Nash killed WCW. Dusty Rhodes killed WCW. Eric Bischoff is the only person that did something RIGHT with that company. Eric played a role, he saved the company but ended up having a hand in killing it later. Mostly by overspending... a lot.

[Pepsi Man]

That was clearly the highlight of RAW last night. It was truly surreal seeing all three guys in the same ring. I liked the interaction between Heyman and Bischoff---especially how when Heyman talked about the history of ECW, he was pretty fair by mentioning that neither WCW or the then-WWF did things like the hardcore style, technical wrestling or cruiserweights. He wasn't just beating up on WCW.

But the second Vince started talking, the bull**** came down in buckets. In Vince's mind, Eric "raided" talent, while he "signed" talent. Apparently, Bischoff and Turner went by the ECW Arena one evening, abducted Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Perry Saturn, Dean Malenko, Rey Mysterio Jr., Psychosis, and Juventud Guerrera, held them at knifepoint, and demanded they sign WCW contracts :roll: Meanwhile, Tazz and the Dudleys left for the then-WWF on their own.

By the way, did Tajiri and Rhyno come to the WWF after ECW folded?
Meh, to be fair, not only did Vince apparently help them financially, but he also was a lot more lenient with letting WWF talent appear in ECW than WCW was, and when I say a lot more lenient, I mean a LOT more lenient.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Meh, to be fair, not only did Vince apparently help them financially, but he also was a lot more lenient with letting WWF talent appear in ECW than WCW was, and when I say a lot more lenient, I mean a LOT more lenient.

That's what I was thinking. Like back when ECW first invaded Raw (with Sabu jumping off the 'R' on the set) or Jerry Lawler showing up at ECW. You never would've seen somebody like Lash Leroux doing that. I am kinda interested to know exactly what kind of relationship the WWF and ECW had back at that time.