Was Wrestling more fun for you when you were a "Mark"

[DaBrasko]

First off if this thread was done before im sorry :)

But anyways, Did you consider wrestling more fun when you didnt know so much about the backstage antics and egos? And do you think you would still have the same perception of wrestlers to this day or would you follow the crowd like they would want you to?

[Scarface]

Yeah, I miss being a mark. Still would be all "Why the hell is Trips still in the title picture though".

[DaBrasko]

Yeah, I miss being a mark. Still would be all "Why the hell is Trips still in the title picture though".

I dont know if i would or not. If I was still a mark I would be like damn why does he keep winning!! thus making me dispise his character more and more and paying for every pay per view to see the new flavor of the month face beat his ass and playing into their hands.

[Nark Order]

I miss alot of 'mark out' moments because of the internet alot. I always hear about everything beforehand.

[DaBrasko]

You cant really place all the blame on the internet. It's human nature to want to know things, and the internet just poses as the forbin fruit of knowledge. you just have to fight the urge to cheat and find things out sooner. I hope this doesnt become a blame placing thread :)

[Mr. JL]

Nah, I actually like being a 'smark' as opposed to a mark. Although, being a mark certainly has its upsides...

But being an internet smark has allowed me to conjure up my own opinions about certain wrestlers, angles, storylines, gimmicks and etc. So, in the end I don't feel like such a tool.

[Mr. JL]

So, I'd say its more fun now that I am able to come up with my own opinions about the stuff I see in wrestling.

[DaBrasko]

Nah, I actually like being a 'smark' as opposed to a mark. Although, being a mark certainly has its upsides...

But being an internet smark has allowed me to conjure up my own opinions about certain wrestlers, angles, storylines, gimmicks and etc. So, in the end I don't feel like such a tool.

But if you were a mark you wouldnt know you were a tool, you would just be happy in your ignorance :)

[Mr. JL]

Thats why being a mark has its upsides.

[Supermark101]

For me knowing what will happen doesnt make it any less fun to watch. An example of that is the MMN/Hasscore match from Smackdown. I knew who won, but was still able to really enjoy it.

As far as it being more fun as a mark, for me its about the same. I really enjoy it when its good, and hate it when it's shit. I have always beem like that. Thats the beauty of wrestling when its good and done right, you can lose yourself in it. Thats how ECW was for me in 95 and 96. Before that I pretty much quit watching wrestling.

[DaBrasko]

another upside would be that you would get emotionaly behind your favorite wrestlers. For example you would care a hell of a lot more when they make the "hot tag"

[DaBrasko]

For me knowing what will happen doesnt make it any less fun to watch. An example of that is the MMN/Hasscore match from Smackdown. I knew who won, but was still able to really enjoy it.

As far as it being more fun as a mark, for me its about the same. I really enjoy it when its good, and hate it when it's shit. I have always beem like that. Thats the beauty of wrestling when its good and done right, you can lose yourself in it. Thats how ECW was for me in 95 and 96. Before that I pretty much quit watching wrestling.

I can see your point, but I mean if you knew nothing about the backstage antics or repuation a wrestler has in the back. Do you think you would look at it any diffrent

[Team Sheep]

I do certainly miss it at times. I remember when all my mates were over to watch RAW like we did every Friday night, and it was the one where Jericho "won" the WWF title from HHH. We didn't see it coming at all, and we were all going nuts when he won, but then so pissed off when the decision was later reversed. And then I found out about the internet and I started reading the RAW and Smackdown! Spoilers every week, and every Tuesday and Wednesday morning, they'd all come up to me and ask "What happened on RAW? What happened on Smackdown!?" And I was like god in school. I haven't read the spoilers for about 2 yeas now so I can really try and enjoy it again, but because I still read all the backstage gossip and what not on here all the time and who's going to be getting pushes etc, it's a lot more predictable nowadays. So yeah, it was more fun being a mark, but this is also fun. Two different kinds of fun really. I could always cut off my internet provider and be a mark again, but no.

[Supermark101]

I can see your point, but I mean if you knew nothing about the backstage antics or repuation a wrestler has in the back. Do you think you would look at it any diffrent


Not really.... We really dont know what goes on backstage. A lot of us want to think we do, but we really don't. How can we be so sure that Bret hart wasnt in on the whole Montreal deal? We really don't.The sheets and the bigger internet sites are just trying to make a buck, and will take liberties with stories if they have to. They should be looked as just another entertianing aspect of the business.

It is also very easy to be worked as a smart fan. When I read about something that goes on backstage I take it with a grain of salt.

[DaBrasko]

Not really.... We really dont know what goes on backstage. A lot of us want to think we do, but we really don't. How can we be so sure that Bret hart wasnt in on the whole Montreal deal? We really don't.The sheets and the bigger internet sites are just trying to make a buck, and will take liberties with stories if they have to. They should be looked as just another entertianing aspect of the business.

It is also very easy to be worked as a smart fan. When I read about something that goes on backstage I take it with a grain of salt.

I try to do the same thing, :D

[Kane Knight]

Most of my friends are still marks.

They don't enjoy Raw and Smackdown any more than me. Some of them won't watch anymore.

What hurts the show for me is that I can't enjoy it as much right now. I was reading internet news and stories when DX was still around, and when I thought Triple H was awesome in 2000.

[Xerzes]

When I were a mark. DaBrasko, learn english. I started watching wrestling in mid-1994, so wrestling, WWF anyway, was only improving for years. WCW, less so, but I didn't mind much then. Seems like when I was a mark I had more tolerance for crappy matches. But now, when most matches are awful, I doubt I'd watch at all if not for the spark of hope for improvement some of the internet crowd manages to keep alive in me.

[DaBrasko]

When I were a mark. DaBrasko, learn english. I started watching wrestling in mid-1994, so wrestling, WWF anyway, was only improving for years. WCW, less so, but I didn't mind much then. Seems like when I was a mark I had more tolerance for crappy matches. But now, when most matches are awful, I doubt I'd watch at all if not for the spark of hope for improvement some of the internet crowd manages to keep alive in me.

okiedoke
:y:

[James Steele]

I have more fun with it now. Until January 2002, all I ever did was cheer for the heels (except Rock) and cheered for Austin. If I didn't have the internet, I'd probably not watch it anymore. Plus, I have become more of an appreciative fan.

[DaBrasko]

I posed this same question to a friend of mine and he brought up a funny point. He said that if was huge mark that didnt hear about backstage crap, he probably would have cheered for Holly during his title push against Lesnar because as a mark he wanted to see the returing face get his revenge over haveing his neck broken.

Also keep in mind I'm not wanting this to seem like I'm bashing the internet... cause I'm not :D

[bigdaddysuperfreak]

It was more fun for when I was younger, but I think I was less jaded to the workings of the world and more naive. Even if I didnt go on the internet I would still be unhappy with the product.

[V]

i'm still a mark, and will always try to be... that's one of the reasons i spazz when people don't mark for spoilers properly

[Kane Knight]

I posed this same question to a friend of mine and he brought up a funny point. He said that if was huge mark that didnt hear about backstage crap, he probably would have cheered for Holly during his title push against Lesnar because as a mark he wanted to see the returing face get his revenge over haveing his neck broken.

Also keep in mind I'm not wanting this to seem like I'm bashing the internet... cause I'm not :D
A lot of people blame the internet for things, and the "smarks." Internet fans are also supposed to be a minority, so you have two interesting concepts: 1. We ruin wrestling, and 2. We're too small to make a difference. :wtf:

Anyway, a lot of net fans don't care about backsatge crap to the extent we're supposed to. Look at all the guys who think JBL is great, even though his antics backstage have been HORRIBLE. Hell, I'm even cheering for Holly right now, because MNM's entrance is a "snooze" button for me.

I'd say what makes wrestling less entertaining is less that I stopped being a "mark," and more that the WWF changed what a "mark" was. Like opening Pandora's box, they changed the face of wrestling with the likes of Hart, and more technical oriented wrestling. They took us backstage, they even have a web presence.

You know how certain dogs are never the same once they taste raw meat? We've tasted the meat, we damn well liked it, and we're not the same. I think this is true for both "smarks" and "marks," not just one category or the other. Mostly because I DO believe that "internet fans" aren't a big enough category to make a difference, but ratings go down due to casual fans and marks losing interest, and go up (and draw responses) from good programming. The WWE (and WCW, ECW) raised the bar. Now they're unable to reach it. That's the reason I'm not enjoying it as much. I don't think I was a mark (In the strictest sense) even during the attitude era, when HHH still got respect on the net and most of the main eventers still put on good matches. I don't think most people on the net were marks either, but I think it falls into an area of loose semantics.

[Kane Knight]

i'm still a mark, and will always try to be... that's one of the reasons i spazz when people don't mark for spoilers properly
Even when the "spoiler" isn't one. :p

[Pete13]

i think maybe knowing so much stuff about the way this bussiness is going, and learning so much backstage stuff does spoil ur apetite for Wrestling a bit.. but just a little bit..
right now fans r bored with the storylines and BS road that WWE is going with it's shows and PPVs... that's the main reason fans r not as excited as they once were in the days of Undertaker, Austin and Rock.
The lack of real athletes, personas and storylines.

[DaBrasko]

A lot of people blame the internet for things, and the "smarks." Internet fans are also supposed to be a minority, so you have two interesting concepts: 1. We ruin wrestling, and 2. We're too small to make a difference. :wtf:

Anyway, a lot of net fans don't care about backsatge crap to the extent we're supposed to. Look at all the guys who think JBL is great, even though his antics backstage have been HORRIBLE. Hell, I'm even cheering for Holly right now, because MNM's entrance is a "snooze" button for me.

I'd say what makes wrestling less entertaining is less that I stopped being a "mark," and more that the WWF changed what a "mark" was. Like opening Pandora's box, they changed the face of wrestling with the likes of Hart, and more technical oriented wrestling. They took us backstage, they even have a web presence.

You know how certain dogs are never the same once they taste raw meat? We've tasted the meat, we damn well liked it, and we're not the same. I think this is true for both "smarks" and "marks," not just one category or the other. Mostly because I DO believe that "internet fans" aren't a big enough category to make a difference, but ratings go down due to casual fans and marks losing interest, and go up (and draw responses) from good programming. The WWE (and WCW, ECW) raised the bar. Now they're unable to reach it. That's the reason I'm not enjoying it as much. I don't think I was a mark (In the strictest sense) even during the attitude era, when HHH still got respect on the net and most of the main eventers still put on good matches. I don't think most people on the net were marks either, but I think it falls into an area of loose semantics.


:y:

[Marcyo]

I don't know if it was better when I was a mark. I certainly learn a lot on the internet. Before starting to post on TPWW, I used to think 'another boring match comin up' when Benoit vs Jericho was announced.

Now, I know how to appreciate these matches... All thanks to TPWW... :heart:

[SuperSlim]

I dunno when I was a mark I enjoyed it more just for entertainment.

after losing that markish feel I enjoyed it more for the ring work.

I dunno. Iprobably need more time to decipher which I turly will stand by. but as of right now I'd say I enjoyed it more as a mark

[Marcyo]

yeah, I'm glad I was still a mark by Wrestlemania XX - Undertaker's entrance. It was SO awesome... for marks.

[Supermark101]

A lot of people blame the internet for things, and the "smarks." Internet fans are also supposed to be a minority, so you have two interesting concepts: 1. We ruin wrestling, and 2. We're too small to make a difference. :wtf:

Anyway, a lot of net fans don't care about backsatge crap to the extent we're supposed to. Look at all the guys who think JBL is great, even though his antics backstage have been HORRIBLE. Hell, I'm even cheering for Holly right now, because MNM's entrance is a "snooze" button for me.

I'd say what makes wrestling less entertaining is less that I stopped being a "mark," and more that the WWF changed what a "mark" was. Like opening Pandora's box, they changed the face of wrestling with the likes of Hart, and more technical oriented wrestling. They took us backstage, they even have a web presence.

You know how certain dogs are never the same once they taste raw meat? We've tasted the meat, we damn well liked it, and we're not the same. I think this is true for both "smarks" and "marks," not just one category or the other. Mostly because I DO believe that "internet fans" aren't a big enough category to make a difference, but ratings go down due to casual fans and marks losing interest, and go up (and draw responses) from good programming. The WWE (and WCW, ECW) raised the bar. Now they're unable to reach it. That's the reason I'm not enjoying it as much. I don't think I was a mark (In the strictest sense) even during the attitude era, when HHH still got respect on the net and most of the main eventers still put on good matches. I don't think most people on the net were marks either, but I think it falls into an area of loose semantics.


I agree with most of what you said. I do believe the internet crowd is larger than most think. The 3.8 to 4.0 for a RAW is there core audiance. Most of which are fans that grew up on Hulk Hogan, and are now "smart." The problem is that, generally speaking, the "smart fan" will watch it no matter what. We are all an example of this. We sit and BITCH about HHH or Edge or whatever, but on monday nights we are, on this board, discusing RAW.

What the WWE is know doing is throwing shit up against the wall. To see if the causel fan get caught up in it. The Rock and Austin were not pushed to the moon at first, but they drew in the causel fans. Then business took off. They are throwing Matt Morgan, Chris Masters, and other out there in the same fashion. They know they can count on us to still watch.

[DaBrasko]

I agree with most of what you said. I do believe the internet crowd is larger than most think. The 3.8 to 4.0 for a RAW is there core audiance. Most of which are fans that grew up on Hulk Hogan, and are now "smart." The problem is that, generally speaking, the "smart fan" will watch it no matter what. We are all an example of this. We sit and BITCH about HHH or Edge or whatever, but on monday nights we are, on this board, discusing RAW.

What the WWE is know doing is throwing shit up against the wall. To see if the causel fan get caught up in it. The Rock and Austin were not pushed to the moon at first, but they drew in the causel fans. Then business took off. They are throwing Matt Morgan, Chris Masters, and other out there in the same fashion. They know they can count on us to still watch.


LOL I know what you mean. I wish i had a dollar for everytime my friends say " I can't stand this shit anymore ... I'm never going to watch it again!" The following Monday they are at my house watching it. :lol:

[Kane Knight]

I agree with most of what you said. I do believe the internet crowd is larger than most think. The 3.8 to 4.0 for a RAW is there core audiance. Most of which are fans that grew up on Hulk Hogan, and are now "smart." The problem is that, generally speaking, the "smart fan" will watch it no matter what. We are all an example of this. We sit and BITCH about HHH or Edge or whatever, but on monday nights we are, on this board, discusing RAW.

What the WWE is know doing is throwing shit up against the wall. To see if the causel fan get caught up in it. The Rock and Austin were not pushed to the moon at first, but they drew in the causel fans. Then business took off. They are throwing Matt Morgan, Chris Masters, and other out there in the same fashion. They know they can count on us to still watch.
The 3.8 to 4.0 is not always the same people watching. The core audience of people who watch every week is actually bound to be a lot smaller. I think that alone blows your argument to Hell.

However, you're right on one thing. They're throwing it out to see what sticks. And they don't have a clue. They're out of touch with "the people," Smart, mark, or casual. This is why we have pussified John Cena and talkative Dave as faces. That's why they're editing out Christian's pops instead of running with his obvious popularity. They're too busy throwing shit to see what works...Basically, missing the forest for the trees.

[Supermark101]

The 3.8 to 4.0 is not always the same people watching. The core audience of people who watch every week is actually bound to be a lot smaller. I think that alone blows your argument to Hell.



Sure there is bond to be some turnover, but how many people do you personally know that watch one week and not the next. I can say I know 33, yes I counted, that watch every week. Not including the ones here. I'll give you, that is nothing compared to the millions that watch, but it is more than most. So for you to say my argument blows is incorrect. I just put it out there for people to think about.

[Kane Knight]

Sure there is bond to be some turnover, but how many people do you personally know that watch one week and not the next. I can say I know 33, yes I counted, that watch every week. Not including the ones here. I'll give you, that is nothing compared to the millions that watch, but it is more than most. So for you to say my argument blows is incorrect. I just put it out there for people to think about.
So you're going to assume that your friends equal the standard?

Good for you. You'll have a great future predicting elections in Florida.

[Altar of Helmsley]

There are times i miss being a mark mainly when I see how excited people are/were for a storyline when i knew about it months in advance.

I like to have some insider knowledge though.

[Supermark101]

So you're going to assume that your friends equal the standard?

Good for you. You'll have a great future predicting elections in Florida.


What else do I have to go off of. I could, like you, assume I know what I'm talking about, and have nothing to back it up. At least, I have something to go off of. What are you basing your opinon on? You have yet to give any facts or knowledge of what we are debating here.

[Kane Knight]

What else do I have to go off of. I could, like you, assume I know what I'm talking about, and have nothing to back it up. At least, I have something to go off of. What are you basing your opinon on? You have yet to give any facts or knowledge of what we are debating here.
Very good. Not only have you used arbitrary evidence to "disprove" an opinion, you have ignored common sense and now stepped up to the "you think you know it all.

You're the one assuming a static audience, which is not only unlikely but implausible. Good for you. :y:

[Kane Knight]

What else do I have to go off of. I could, like you, assume I know what I'm talking about, and have nothing to back it up. At least, I have something to go off of. What are you basing your opinon on? You have yet to give any facts or knowledge of what we are debating here.
Knowledge: TV ratings are dynamic. Viewers are dynamic. Nielsen ratings are a sample, and subject to the same flaws as any other STATISTICAL ANALYSIS. The sample, as viewers, are still dynamic.

I'm sorry that that doesn't mesh with your "facts" that your scientific study of 30-ish people isn't a great determination of the populace. At least the Nielsens ARE a real study, a suitable sampling.

[Supermark101]

Knowledge: TV ratings are dynamic. Viewers are dynamic. Nielsen ratings are a sample, and subject to the same flaws as any other STATISTICAL ANALYSIS. The sample, as viewers, are still dynamic.

I'm sorry that that doesn't mesh with your "facts" that your scientific study of 30-ish people isn't a great determination of the populace. At least the Nielsens ARE a real study, a suitable sampling.

OK if the neilsen ratings are roughly the same every week. Why cant I asume that a good portion are the same also? I never said that my 33 was a good sampling.

I can say I know 33, yes I counted, that watch every week. Not including the ones here. I'll give you, that is nothing compared to the millions that watch
I said I have more to go off than you. What do you know about the wrestling veiwing habits of anyone.

[Karlsberg]

There are times when i miss being a mark but i dont regret going on the internet to find out all the backstage goings on.

I like the fact that on forums such as this i can throw in my two cents on the state of the industry which leads to far more interesting discussions about wrestling. Where as before i came on the internet talking to friends about wrestling went little beyond who was your favourite? or what did you think of that match?

[Altar of Helmsley]

There are times when i miss being a mark but i dont regret going on the internet to find out all the backstage goings on.

I like the fact that on forums such as this i can throw in my two cents on the state of the industry which leads to far more interesting discussions about wrestling. Where as before i came on the internet talking to friends about wrestling went little beyond who was your favourite? or what did you think of that match?


Or perhaps 2-3 hour discussions on how HHH is ruining the buisness

In fact i take back what i said earlier, most marks i meet think HHH really is god, i don't want to go back to that dark, dark place.

[Bischoff187]

Or perhaps 2-3 hour discussions on how HHH is ruining the buisness

In fact i take back what i said earlier, most marks i meet think HHH really is god, i don't want to go back to that dark, dark place.

I'm not a mark, but I like HHH.

[Marcyo]

;-o

[LK]

It has it's advantages knowing more about the business and the people invovled. I can now really appreciate a good match and a good angle. BTW someone said something about Matt Morgan in a critical way and I just wanted to say that I'm enjoying his stuff at the moment.

[James Steele]

My new gimmick tells my feelings on the Triple H situation.

[Dave Youell]

James, the best gimmicks are the ones that we live in real life, meaning your gimmick will be very very sucessful

[Marcyo]

Longest signature I've seen so far

[Kane Knight]

Jilted paramour?

[Marcyo]

lol

[NoRoolz]

I enjoy being a "smark" just as much really. I still get all excited about upcoming P.P.V's, and I still 'mark out'. But I can appreciate who's a good wrestler and who's not, and know about backstage antics. Which is a good thing I guess because I wouldn't want to cheer for a complete asshole.

[NoRoolz]

LOL @ Triple H parent picture. Now I can see where Trips got his huge schnozz from.

[DaBrasko]

LOL I LOVE the punch out spoof :lol:

[The Gooch]

The only time when being a smark sucks for me is when it takes the mystery out of who will win a match. When I know so-and-so is going to have surgery after a PPV, you pretty much know they are going to lose and that there will be some angle to "take him out". Going in blind in those types of situations would be fun.

I do love when matches happen that can make you forget and become a mark again. Sting vs Flair final Nitro. Shawn Michaels vs. Jericho. Hogan vs. Rock. All of them I managed to get into and enjoy without thinking that Hogan and Flair were too old. Shawn was holding down Jericho by refusing to job. Etc....

[Kane Knight]

The only time when being a smark sucks for me is when it takes the mystery out of who will win a match. When I know so-and-so is going to have surgery after a PPV, you pretty much know they are going to lose and that there will be some angle to "take him out". Going in blind in those types of situations would be fun.
It's easy to avoid spoilers though.

Most of these are appropriately marked.

BEsides, it's not like wrestling is hard to predict.