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Heyman

01-16-2004, 12:35 AM

NOTE TO MODS/POSTERS: I realize this thread has been done numerous times in the (recent) past, but I'd still like to post this anyways. If you feel this thread is "extraneous", feel free to delete it. I will save a copy of this, and post it on my column (entitled "Mass Debate".....ARTIST is my other alias for those that don't know

Kurt Angle vs. Eddie Guerrero

Eddie faces Chavo at Royal Rumble (if I'm not mistaken). Much to everyone's surprise however, Angle HELPS Chavo Guerrero by attacking Eddie. Chavo ends up getting a pinfall victory (although the next SD, Eddie gets a return victory). Angle explains his actions that HE (not Eddie) is the top fan-favorite on Smackdown. Angle explains that Eddie was trying to steal his fanfare and lime light in his absense. So basically - Angle turns heel. The two men have a match at mania', where Angle defeats Guerrero with the ankle lock submission. Guerrero gets a return victory (by "lying, cheating, and stealing!" a month later)

Big Show vs. Chris Benoit vs. Hardcore Holly vs. Matt Morgan (United States title)

This sucks for Chris Benoit because he deserves a MUCH better match than this, but he ends up winning the US title anyways (with the Crossface over Matt Morgan). Benoit takes on Show the next month, and beats him cleanly as well.

John Cena vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin:

As part of the package deal for Goldberg, John Cena gets traded to Raw. Cena, while impressive on his debut, seems to have some beef with Stone Cold (Cena shows the tape where Austin stunned him in Baghdad). Austin and Cena try to put aside their differences, but things don't go as planned.

As result, Austin comes out of retirement for one last time to face John Cena (who has now slowly turned heel).

At Wrestlemania, Cena and Austin have a great match. Austin wins in the end with the Stone Cold Stunner. After the match, a frustrated John Cena attacks Austin. Cena hits Austin's neck with a chair. The WWE do an angle where Austin has to leave with paramedics. Due to Austin's severe injury, Austin leaves WWE TV (again) for a long period of time. His (ridiculous) role as sheriff comes to an end.

Rey Mysterio vs. Taijiri (Cruiserweight title):

Standard Cruiserweight match where Mysterio defeats Taijiri.

Chris Jericho/Edge/Buh Buh Ray w/Trish vs. Christian/Matt Hardy/D'Von Dudley

-Edge comes to Raw as part of the package deal involing Kane and Goldberg. Edge requests to be a part of the deal because it turned out that Christian was the one who injured Edge's neck (on that SD PPV, Christian stalked Edge and took him out.......many people of which thought it was Hass/Benjamin/Angle).

Christian is also at odds with Chris Jericho who is now fully committed to Trish Stratus.

In other developments, D'Von and Buh Buh Ray Dudley have a 'falling out' (after they job to Flair/Batista for the tag titles). D'Von turns heel.

Christian, Matt Hardy, and D'Von form a "TLC" stable. They cut promos on how THEY made the TLC matches famous........and how they deserve to be main-event superstars on Raw. Edge, Jericho, and Buh Buh take exception to that and challenge the trio to a TLC match at Wrestlemania.

The winner of the match gets a paycheck of sorts (I can't think of anything better. :-\ -).

In the end, Edge climbs the ladder to win the paycheck for his team (Edge doesn't take bumps during this match to protect his neck).

Basham Brothers vs. Billy Gunn and Chuck Pulumbo

Billy Gunn and Chuck Pulumno re-unite! They go on to defeat the Bashams to reclaim the tag team titles.

Shawn Michaels vs. Rob Van Dam (Ladder Match - Intercontinental title)

Eric Bischoff decides to make this match for the hell of it. Between Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania, RVD and Shawn Michaels develop a decent friendship. Bischoff decides to manipulate the situation by making a ladder match between the two men. The two have a great match at Wrestlemania, but RVD comes out on top in the end. After the match, the two men shake hands and embrace. After Wrestlemania, HBK becomes a 'mentor' of sorts to RVD.......and persuades him to find the inner drive to go after the World title.

Undertaker vs. Kane:

Taker comes back at Royal Rumble and takes out Kane (eliminating him from the Royal Rumble). Like Goldberg, Kane jumps to Smackdown in pursuit of his nemesis. The two have another epic match at Wrestlemania, but Undertaker once again comes out on top.

After Wrestlemania, their feud continues. Kane lights Sarah on fire (yeah I know, corny as sh</>it, but hey. :-\ -), and the two have a return match. Kane finally defeats Taker cleanly at the next PPV.

Mick Foley vs. Randy Orton (Street fight):

Orton is seething over the fact that Foley caused Orton to 'pass out' in the tag match between Rock N' Sock/Evolution a month earlier. Orton and Foley go one-on-one at Mania. Randy Orton defeats Mick Foley cleanly in the end. Orton truly establishes himself as a "Legend Killer". A month later, Orton adds to his legacy when he defeats The Rock cleanly to become World Champion. After that?

Eventually, Orton also turns on Triple H (happens after Wrestlemania) and Ric Flair (after the PPV after Mania), and becomes the new leader of Evolution (with Dave Batista, Sean O'Haire, and a newly added John Cena).

The Rock vs. Triple H (World Title):

Much to everyone's surprise, The Rock makes an entry into the Royal Rumble. The Rock ends up laying the Smacketh Down on everyone's candy ass....and wins the Rumble in the process ;). The Rock then gets his match with Triple H at Wrestlemania. A month before mania however, The Rock and Mick Foley have a match with Triple H and Randy Orton. The Rock and Sock Connection end up getting a win over Evolution when Foley puts "Mr. Socko" on Orton.

Victoria w/Steven Richards vs. Jazz w/Mark Henry&Theodore Long

The know strong face Victoria defeats Jazz to become new Women's champion.

Anyways - The Rock goes on to defeat Triple H to win the World title (Triple H probably won't job cleanly, and so I'll say that Randy Orton 'screws up' and costs Triple H the title). The next night on Raw, Triple H confronts Evolution....and Randy Orton. Evolution beat the snot out of Triple H. Triple H leaves TV for a month or so.

The next month, The Rock faces Randy Orton for the World title. Orton defeats The Rock cleanly to become the new World Champion. The Rock once again leaves for the movies.

Brock Lesnar vs. Goldberg (WWE title):

At the Royal Rumble (joint PPV effort), Lesnar confronts Goldberg (if you recall, Goldberg punked out Lesnar the last time the rosters had a joint PPV). The two men have a stare down. Lesnar goes on to defeat Hardcore Holly quiet easily. During the rumble, Goldberg seems to be dominating everyone. When Goldberg least expects it however, Lesnar comes out. Lesnar (not part of the rumble) interferes and helps Goldberg get eliminated. Furious - Goldberg demads a trade from Raw the next night. He heads over to Smackdown to begin a program with Lesnar......which culminates at Wrestlemania. After a hard fought match, Lesnar defeats Goldberg cleanly.

BasicThuganomics

01-16-2004, 12:40 AM

If you want this to happen that is one thing, but if you actually think that this will happen, you're stupid.

BasicThuganomics

01-16-2004, 12:51 AM

OK I just, looked over you're post again, you're just an idiot. You've switched half of the rosters around for no reason? Let me point out some of the stupid shit you just posted that won't happen...
John Cena joining Evolution under Orton's leadership? No way in hell that would happen.
Randy Orton winning the World title at backlash? once again, no way in hell.
Rock and Sock are going to be in a tag match that way they won't take up too much room on the card.
HBK won't be fighting for IC titles.
Yeah like Austin's last match would be against John Cena?
Billy and Chuck, are you trying to sound like you don't know a damn thing?
Dudley's splitting up isn't gonna happen.

Damn, I'm surprised your dumbass didn't say "I think the WWE will/should reunite the rosters around this time!"

No offense, but are you trying to post shit that you know won't happen or what?

The CyNick

01-16-2004, 01:31 PM

Meh, people can make up whatever cards they like.

About Eddie-Angle. I think the reasoning for Angle's eventual turn on Eddie is that he wanted to keep Eddie out of the Rumble so he would have less competition. I think it will also play out that Kurt has been brainwashing Chavo against Eddie. I can see this all leading to Kurt-Eddie, and then an eventual reunion with Los Guerreros down the road. I also think Eddie will beat Kurt at Mania, which will set up Eddie as the #1 contender for the SD title against Brock.

Heyman

01-16-2004, 01:43 PM

SHEESH! Lucky I didn't use this as my column material eh? :o Anyways - I'll try and answer your questions.

You've switched half of the rosters around for no reason? Let me point out some of the stupid shit you just posted that won't happen...

There is reason. I put Kane and Goldberg on Smackdown with the assumption that both Undertaker and Brock Lesnar screw with Kane/Goldberg resepctively. As result, both Kane and Goldberg request to be traded to Smackdown and get their wish.

John Cena joining Evolution under Orton's leadership? No way in hell that would happen.

Cena wouldn't have to be under Orton's "leadership". Instead - they could be fighting with a 'common cause' in the notion that they are the Evolution of this business. They can have equal leadership. For example - If Orton lost the title to someone, then Cena could go after it (and Orton would still have his back). Obviously - this "system" would eventually break down in deep time.....as ego's would get in the way. In terms of the 'equal rank' system, I'd compare this to Paul Heyman's stable from last year where he was the agent for both Big Show and Kurt Angle (if that makes sense).

Randy Orton winning the World title at backlash? once again, no way in hell.

Why not? If Orton goes CLEAN over Foley at Mania, he'll have some huge momentum. Why SHOULDN"T the WWE capitalize on that? It's obvious that the WWE don't care about the whole system of 'paying dues' nearly as much anymore (as evidenced with the massive push of Brock Lesnar). If Orton goes over Foley, and then The Rock, then the WWE will have truly established a main-event heel.

Rock and Sock are going to be in a tag match that way they won't take up too much room on the card.

Wrestlemania is rumored to be 5 hours long this year. I highly doubt that the WWE will worry about The Rock and Foley "taking up too much room on the card". Besides - The Rock and Foley in SINGLES matches will be of far more interest.

If you want Rock N' Sock vs. Triple H/Orton in a PPV match? (or a high profile match?). Fine - have it at a PPV or a Raw (and the match is heavily promoted WELL in advance)........just not at Wrestlemania. Have Foley defeat Orton in the tag match (so Foley 'saves face' and proves that he's not a coward and still 'has it', but then have him job to Orton at Mania).

The Rock vs. Triple H (one on one at Mania) is also something that has never been done before. It's an old and classic feud.....one which should be of huge interest.

HBK won't be fighting for IC titles.

And why not? In recent years, we have seen 'main-eventers' carry the IC title (i.e. Triple H, Big Show, Kane, etc.)......but that's not the point. Basically - HBK fighting for the IC title against RVD (who wins the title IC on Raw back from Orton thanks to a Mick Foley interference) would serve to put RVD over.

Both HBK and RVD have arguably been at their best when it HAS been a ladder match. HBK is great at making people look good. At a time when the WWE could benefit in getting RVD 'over' again, what better way then to have him defeat HBK at Mania?......in the ladder match?

Yeah like Austin's last match would be against John Cena?

Why not? As we saw in Baghdad, Austin and Cena had a slight confrontation. Because Cena and Austin are both fan favorites right now, the 'feud' could initially draw the interest of the fans (kind of like when Jericho and The Rock started their feud from late 2001). Like Jericho did, Cena can eventually turn heel.

Would you rather Austin have his 'last match' be against Vince McMahon (and in effect, see a VERY predictable outcome at Wrestlemania?). Niga please.

Billy and Chuck, are you trying to sound like you don't know a damn thing?

Pulumbo's FBI gimmick hasn't done much for him. Billy Gunn as a singles wrestler isn't all that great either. Billy Gunn is the equivalent of Test....both men will get decent pushes, but it will never materialize.

It suits BOTH Billy Gunn and Chuck Pulumbo to get back together. Both men were much over with that gimmick, then they are now.

Dudley's splitting up isn't gonna happen.

Why do you always assume that "things won't change?" Dudleys are pretty stale in my opinion. They've dominated the tag team division for quite some time. I think it's time to move on.

I particularly LIKE the idea of having a "TLC stable" involving Matt Hardy, Christian, and D'Von Dudley. In my opinion, they'd be a great heel mid-card stable. It would certainly help a guy like Matt Hardy get more TV time as well.

The new Dudley team can then be Buh Buh and Spike (or Buh Buh can become a singles competitor who helps put over up-and-coming heels).

Dudley's probably won't split up, but I'd still like to see it happen.

I'd be happy to answer any more questions.

Perhaps the title of this thread is misleading. I should have not included the world 'feel' in there. This card is purely 'hope' on my part.

BasicThuganomics

01-16-2004, 05:21 PM

If you hope that this is what will happen, then that is different. I can't call you a dumbass for having a certain tastes (unless you are Dark Kane) But if you think that this is the direction the WWE is going then, you are just WAY off. I am not saying that things won't change in the WWE, but there is no way that all of the changes you listed will happen in two months time by Wrestlemania takes place.

http://www.tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2821

This is my WMXX thread that shows a card that is more likely to happen. It is not all what I would want to happen, but it seems the most likely to happen.

I just don't like your card that much at all. :n: no offense.

ilt_undertaker

01-16-2004, 05:39 PM

I like that card, but i wish you didnt put Goldberg in it, i just dont like him at all

BasicThuganomics

01-16-2004, 06:28 PM

Savio

01-16-2004, 06:29 PM

But goldberg would have to be in it.
-------------------------------
Heyman I love your sig

The CyNick

01-16-2004, 10:22 PM

Couple of things:

HHH VS ROCK

HHH vs Rock is not a big deal. You look at last years Mania and they had Austin/Rock for nostalgia, but it didn't draw a huge buyrate. Now granted it wasn't the most hyped match on the show, but its clear people weren't clamouring to see another match between the two (even though it ended up being a really strong match). That same line of thinking would appy to HHH/Rock in my opinion. Even though the match has never happened one on one at Mania (although it was the main focal point of the match at Mania 2000, and it boiled down to the two of them, so essentially they've already had their one on one match at Mania), fans have seen it so many times that I dont think anyone will care enough to order the show based on it.

Beisdes, HHH needs to be put in a match to make a new star, not a throw away match against a part time wrestler who he has faced a million times on PPV.

As for Rock and Foley, I think they could be in singles matches, but I think putting them in one match together will end up serving the overall show better. By having them in one match you give someone else a spot on the card, which is a good thing. Also, its been ages since we've seen Rock and Foley as a team, so its possible you could get some people coming back who remember their antics as a team. And unlike HHH vs Rock, we haven't seen a thusand Rock n Sock matches on PPV.

Another benefit is that you can prolong the Foley-Orton fued, and still give Rock and Foley a win at Mania. I mentioned this in another thread, but the way I see it Foey and Rock could win this match (say Rock pins Batista), and it really wouldn't hurt Orton's push. Then at Backlash you have Orton beat Foley in a one-on-one match to really establish Orton. That way you have the feel good story of Foley's successful return to Mania, but Orton still winds up with the big rub a month later. Not that Orton beating Foley one on one at Mania is a bad idea, its just that I think doing the tag deal kills two or three birds with one stone.

CENA vs AUSTIN

This is a bad idea plain and simple. Someone mentioned Cena getting booed, that is true, and totally counter productive to what they should be doing with Cena. You have to also consider that Austin is in rough shape. Its sounding more and more like he will work at Mania, but I dont think he can do a serious match without risking permanent injury. Hence the reason we'll likely get Austin vs McMahon. And even though its a tired fued like HHH vs Rock we haven't seen it a million times on PPV, so it might draw some interest. Plus with Austin's condition, I dont think there are too many other guys he could work with. At least with McMahon they can make it NO DQ, Vince can bleed, Austin can punch his way through the match and send the fans away with a Stunner for old times sake. It would be a perfect way to cap off the Attitude era with Vince losing to SCSA.

As for Cena, I'm not realy sure who he should face. Ideally Matt would be still on SD, and they could have a fued. Matt has a song on John's new CD, so they have a story that could be told there, and I think Ive heard Matt is a decent freestyler so it could be an entertaining fued. But he's on RAW, so that doesn't seem likely. Another posibility could be Rhyno, although he's already jobbed to Cena on TV. Big Show in a rematch (Im assuming Cena will get the US title at NWO) is possible. I've also thought perhaps they go with Morgan as a Heyman henchman who tries to take out Cena. Or, since it looks like Billy Gunn is getting a new heel persona, maybe we get Gunn vs Cena. I know thats not the bext fued for Cena, but he's kinda being left out in the cold the way things are shaping up. Unless they have some special deal planned for him like they had last year, or maybe we'll get Savage/Cena that everyone wants to see.

DUDLEY BOYZ

I think the Dudleys are maybe the most tired act going in the WWE. However, they are great on house shows for getting the crowd going, and as we've seen in the past neither are capable of being successfull singles wrestlers. I mean do we have to relive Rev D-Von? I know I dont want to. Some teams are just meant to be tag teams for their whole career. Now with that said, I wouldn't mind seeing them try a run as a serious bad ass heel team like they were in ECW. Dont know if it would work, but it might be a shot in the arm for their careers.

The CyNick

01-16-2004, 10:29 PM

Oh, and one more thing I forgot to add about HHH vs Rock at Mania, consider this:

With both Rock and HHH doing the movie thing. It might make sense to wait till at least next year (after the HHH-WWE movie is released), or if HHH is any kind of success in Hollywood wait even longer. Because then it would be like two movie stars wrestling each other (who happen to be really talented wrestlers, well one is anyway), instead of two part time wrestlers. You could have the "I'm the better actor" fued, and then also be able to play off their years of history int he ring. From a marketing point of view, to me it makes more sense to hold that match off. Like I said if Hunter can become any kind of star in Hollywood it would almost be like having Sly Stalone against Ahhhnold in a wrestling match back in the 80s/early 90s.

Now its not all that likely that both will be superstars in Hollywood, but like I said I think it makes way more sense ot at least establish HHH as a movie star (even if it is equivalent to Torrie Spelling being a TV star), before you pull the trigger on a Rock-HHH fued.

Heyman

01-21-2004, 02:47 AM

OK now I'll point out why I disagree with your ideas.
John Cena joining Evolution? That would just be a terrible move, John Cena is looking to be the next HUGE superstar similar to Rock and Austin. Having him try and share leadership would go against his character. He's meant to be more of a loner who watches out for his own best interests. He occasinally might work with others like Benoit, but mainly only to help himself out. Having to work with Orton and share leadership is just way against his character. Plus John Cena is doing a GREAT job as an up and coming face on SD. Why would you try to turn him heel so soon?

My line of thinking was that Cena could join the Evolution group, and keep the stable 'elite' since they would be full of big names (I'm assuming that Triple H and Flair will be on their way out sooner than later). With Cena, Batista, and Orton within the group (and O'Haire?), the 'Evolution stable changes their identity to a bunch of guys who are the "Evolution" of this business.

Also - what would YOU do with John Cena right now? Realistically speaking, what's in his best interests? It sounds good on paper to have him 'defect' to Raw and challenge Triple H for the World title, but do you really think Goldberg will like that? It sucks, but I have my doubts that Goldberg would willingly play 'second fiddle' to John Cena.

If Cena fought Triple H, and Goldberg fought Lesnar, then who would The Rock face? Could you really see The Rock and Foley taking on Randy Orton and Dave Batista? The Rock is all about fighting 'high profile' opponents. At this point and time, are Orton and Batista 'high profile?' Would The Rock really be content on fighting 'henchmen' of former nemesis Triple H? Think about it.

If Cena stays on Smackdown, then who does he face? Does he go up against Brock Lesnar? Cena vs. Lesnar has been done before, but it still has potential......however - do you really want to see Lesnar JOB?

Here's my take - The WWE should continue to build up Lesnar as 'the greatest thing since sliced bread'. They've come this far with Lesnar, so why should they hold back? I don't like the idea of Lesnar jobbing to Cena.......just yet.

Cena vs Lesnar (or Triple H) is ok, but I still think pushing Cena as a main-event face might be too premature. How many convincing wins has Cena had? Other than Big Show, has he really beaten anyone of significance?

-He has jobbed to Undertaker
-He has jobbed to Kurt Angle
-He recently jobbed to Chris Benoit.

If anything, I think it makes Lesnar (or Triple H) look weak as opposed to making Cena look strong.

If Cena is going to main-event at Wrestlemania, then I'd like to see him get a few convincing victories (over top-tier opponents) before it.

Orton winning the title at Backlash? Nope, because the WWE doesn't seem to pushing him straight to main events. It's pretty obvious that he is in store for a lengthy IC title reign. This is a very good move IMO. Both Rock and Austin established themselves as superstars in the upper midcard level, and when they were elevated to main events they were ready for it and did a terrific job obviously. Orton needs to continue to improve in the IC ranks so that in a year or so, he will definately be ready to step up as a main event player who can carry himself.

Now see? Orton on the other hand, is in a very good position. He HAS defeated the likes of Shawn Michaels and RVD. He hasn't been made to look inferior to certain opponents in the manner that Cena has.

If Orton gets a win over Foley at Wrestlemania, then he'll have tremendous momentum heading into Backlash against The Rock. If he defeats The Rock, then he'll be 'over' as hell.

As far as Orton having a lengthy title reign is concerned, I think his recent title reign will be as 'lengthy' as they come.

The reason why I feel that the WWE should push Orton (like they did with Lesnar), is because the WWE is in need to a new main-event star. In today's day and age, the best way to create a main-event star is to have a guy who has little or no 'taints' in his track record. Orton qualifies for this.

Guys like Cena, Jericho, RVD, etc. on the other hand, do NOT have this because they have been made to do clean JOBS in recent memory. As a result, the fans don't perceive them to be quite on the same level as "Goldberg, HHH, The Rock, Austin, Lesnar.....or even Angle 

Rock and Foley being in high profile singles matches is not the best way to go at WMXX. While both are high profile superstars, they are only part timers right now. So as much as I love them, being part time wrestlers it just isn't right to take up two lengthy matches on the card when other wrestlers who have been around this year and will still be around after WMXX deserve spots on the card. The Rock and Sock connection was a big draw a couple of years ago, so them being together again is still a big deal. Foley has great heat with Evolution (obviously Orton especially) and with Rock's history against HHH, he could easily develop heat with the group too. I wouldn't be surprised to see Orton try to take out The Rock (to add to his list of legends) I don't want to see HHH/Orton, I think it will be Orton/Batista/Flair maybe all 3 of them or just two of them against Rock and Sock.

Keep in mind that WM is a 5 hour show this year. I don't think adding one more match will be too big a deal....in taking someone else's spot away.

In terms of developing Orton, I think a ONE on ONE clean victory over Foley will be more beneficial to him. I also think that a Rock/HHH one-on-one match will be of interest........due to their past history.

The match you suggested is also good, but I'm not sure if The Rock will be content on facing "Triple H's henchmen". Trust me - The Rock is a proud man. I think he'll feel 'slighted' by Triple H if this happens. Remember - the last time The Rock was around, he didn't feel comfortable about jobbing to Booker T cleanly, because Booker T was slated to lose to Triple H at Mania.

Rock can work off his ring rust. Triple H can work a decent match when he wants to as well. The thing is - Who (other than Goldberg) will Triple H do a JOB for? You know that it will be of someone of 'equal' status. Can you really see Triple H CLEANLY putting over a mid-card talent? (like John Cena, or RVD, or Jericho, etc.).

This is another reason why I suggested The Rock.

[QUOTE] So to be honest, the plan of having Benoit win the title from HHH is a great idea.

It sounds great, but will Triple H do the JOB to someone BELOW him?

Personally - I'd rather see Benoit stay on Smackdown. He is close friends with Eddie Guerrero in real life anyways. SD also suits him more since it's a more 'wrestling oriented' show.

The WWE is building up Benoit great, and Benoit is actually going to be around a month after WM, so him winning the title is a good plan. Not to mention the fact that Benoit is long overdue for this chance at the title. The fact that you suggested Benoit going after the US title in a 4way cluster**** is really a bad idea, and an insult to the crippler considering the great push he is receiving right now.

Won't argue with that. In my card, I had no other way of factoring in Benoit.

HBK going for the IC title won't happen because Orton is pretty much confirmed to carry that title for awhile. I agree that a HBK/RVD ladder match would be enough to make most people on this board drool (myself included) But Orton is definately the man to carry the IC title for the next few months at least.

Actually - with Orton, I change my mind. Let him keep the IC title Have HBK and RVD have a "no DQ" match (so that way, RVD and HBK can still use ladders, etc.).

Orton then defeats The Rock at Backlash to become IC and World Champ. After Backlash, Orton gives the IC title to one of his Evolution members (Cena?).

Austin vs Cena is a bad idea because Cena is being groomed to be the next big superstar. Cena will be booed against Austin without a doubt I think. Cena isn't ready for a match of this magnitude just yet. Him and Orton both need to dominate the upper midcard of their brands for the next year or so.
And to say that Cena and Austin had a slight confrontation isn't that big of a deal. Austin has had slight confrontation's with the entire WWE roster probably.

Cena isn't ready for a match of this magnitude yet? I'll have to disagree. Cena isn't the greatest wrestler in the world, but netiher was Hogan. Cena has the charisma though. Cena can still be a huge main-event face, but I also believe that most main-event faces need a GREAT heel run beforehand.
Take a look at The Rock for instance.

Cena becomes an automatic star by associating himself with Austin at Mania.......he will get GREAT heat if he takes out Austin's neck after the match.

I've got a great solution to Billy's problem of not being good enough to be on his own as a singles superstar... GET RID OF HIM!!! HE SUCKS!!!

I would, but will the WWE?

Dudley's are just made to be a tag team. Even if they are getting stale. D'Von is just not good enough to be on his own in singles. While Bubba is capable of putting on watchable single's matches occasionally, he's still not that good at it. As stale as the dudley's are, the fans don't want to see them part because of the fact that they aren't very good when they are singles wrestlers. Hardys, and E&C were able to split because once they went to singles, they were each good enough to carry themselves in singles division, Dudleys are not.

I'll agree on this. Not enough time to start this angle.

In regards to John Cena.....

1)I think he needs a great heel run before becoming a main-event face. He needs some more credible victories as a heel. Quite frankly - he hasn't done that as of yet. He has clearly been made to look inferior to Undertaker, Lesnar, Angle, and Benoit. Recently in Baghdad, he was punked out by Austin.

2)I don't think he's as 'over' as everyone thinks. He gets great pops, but I could see his 'white boy rap' gimmick getting old very quick........especially if he starts sucking up to the fans.....like most faces are compelled to do.

3)Cena, in Evolution, would keep the Evolution stable as 'elite' (once Triple H and/or Flair leave). As a heel on Raw, Cena could take on guys like RVD, Jericho, and Triple H, and 'get more established' that way.

Heyman

01-21-2004, 03:09 AM

:mad: :mad: :mad:

CRAP.

I just wrote a long-assed response to The CyNick, and my CPU f</>ucked up.

:cry:

I'll make another response in a few days or so. For the time being, read my latest response. I think I answered some of the questions that you asked me there.

The CyNick

01-21-2004, 11:38 AM

haha, my powers are far reaching -- lol

The Naitch

01-21-2004, 12:51 PM

Heyman, good points there. I like the Austin/Cena scenerio. I'd like to see The Rock face Triple H, seeing as how Rock is probably the only guy that can put that bitch Triple H in his place (politics wise)

I don't like the TLC idea. Seems rehashed and makes Edge's, Christian's and V1's singles pushes look like crap.

BasicThuganomics

01-22-2004, 02:23 AM

:roll: I swear, you could make the WWE go bankrupt at a faster rate than even Vince is doing right now.

Ok, once again your ideas just suck. Look, try looking up reports on the internet so you at least know a little bit about what you are talking about. You're fantasy booking is just so far off from what is actually happening.

I don't know why you're talking to me about Cena defecting to RAW and facing HHH as if I stated it was gonna happen, cuz it's not. And why are you mentioning whether Goldberg would play "second fiddle" to Cena? Goldberg's ass is gone after WM probably anyways... And what would I do with Cena? Simple, Have him beat the Big Show's ass at NWO and win the US title, have him retain his title at WMXX and give him a lengthy title reign so that he can be built up as a legitimate contender for the WWE title a year or so from now. You'll notice that I said he was doing excellent as an up and coming face on Smackdown. It's pretty obvious that most of the best main eventers are the ones who worked their way up the ladder and proved they were ready in the midcard ranks before being pushed to main event.

It's pretty much confirmed that Goldberg will face Lesnar at Wrestlemania, and Goldberg will be gone after Mania. So we won't have to worry about whether or not Goldberg is or isn't happy with anyone becoming a main event face. HHH's opponent is gonna be Benoit at WMXX. It's another thing that is getting closer and closer to being confirmed.

You ask if I think Rock would be content teaming with Foley and fighting Orton and Batista? Yes I do! Rock has always been one of the most unselfish guys in the business. He was constantly putting guys over when he was around a couple of years ago. Rock and Sock against Evolution would be a great fued and the build up to this match is already obvious cuz of Foley's heat with Orton. This match would probably be treated very importantly if it were to happen at WMXX. You want singles matches? Well think for a second beyond WMXX, Backlash is a RAW PPV. Do you think that a possible Orton/Foley match might happen at that PPV?

Cena staying on Smackdown is still doable because his fueds with UT, Brock, and Angle were all very short. They could easily be restarted again. Fans were dying to see Cena against brock a few weeks ago when he went against Benoit for a shot at the title. And Cena did lose to Benoit, but he was made to look very strong in the match. And if you want to count wins or whatever, Cena beat Benoit cleanly in the finals of the tournament leading to Backlash last year. Cena will have no problem being presented as a threat to main eventers if he is built up the right way. I wasn't suggesting Cena main event this year's Wrestlemania, I want that honor to go to Benoit (who definately deserves it)

Orton is in a good position, but he is still improving. Orton is really good, possibly the star of the future, but pushing him to main events before he is fully ready is just a bad idea. Being a good main eventer isn't about whether or not the WWE gives you the right push, you have to have the talent to prove you are actually good enough to be considered the best. WWE is doing a great job of pushing sparky holly, but he sure as hell isn't good enough to be considered a true main event guy. (and anyone who says differently is ****ing stupid IMO, not only does he suck, he just looks like a retard)

I don't know why you think HHH/Rock would be a good idea for WMXX with Rock winning. So what if they had a good fued 3 years ago? Just because a fued or angle was good in the past, doesn't mean it should be revisited (NWO and DX reforming so many times definately didn't work out) HHH/Rock wouldn't in any way help out the WWE. It might possibly have a little bit of interest to some people, but it wouldn't cause ratings or buyrates to go up very much (if it would make them go up at all) But after WMXX, when HHH and Rock are filming movies how will the two of them revisiting an old fued have helped the WWE? IT WON'T!!!!!! now HHH/Benoit will help establish Benoit as a true main eventer player who is truly the best and will definately have an impact on the RAW scene for awhile at least.

and if you're gonna say that "HHH will just make Benoit do a JOB" then for the tenth time I am saying... HHH is leaving to film movies, so him doing the JOB to Benoit is actually very likely!!!

Your plan of Orton winnig IC and World title? NO WAY!!!!

Orton and Cena are clearly the stars of the future, but they both are still improving. It is a better move to wait until they are ready to carry themselves as main eventers, not be pushed into main events and have someone else try and carry them. You think Cena's rap gimmick is gonna get stale? uhhh NO. His fan base is still growing. Cena's gimmick is good, and he's pulling it off great. He has already had a heel run, and the fans have been wanting to cheer for him for awhile, so why would you suddenly bring him back heel when he is showing he is good as an up and coming face?

How did you get your own column on this site with shitty ideas like these Heyman?

I say again that Vince McMahon wouldn't be able to make WWE go bankrupt as quickly as you could... :n:

STD

01-22-2004, 09:43 AM

This card sucks! You're living in a fantasy world if you think that this is gonna happen. The matches are largely unbelieveable, and, clearly, you've only "booked" some of them because you're a mark of the wrestler (ie The Rock coming back, winning the Rumble, then being in the main event!). The only match with any creedance (sp.!) is Goldberg vs Lesnar, and as for the rest of the matches - well if that was the card, I certainly wouldn't be tuning into Wrestlemaia XX

Heyman

01-22-2004, 10:38 AM

:'(

STD

01-22-2004, 10:41 AM

:'(

Spot on! Thats how I felt when you posted this sh*te card.

Heyman

01-22-2004, 10:54 AM

Spot on! Thats how I felt when you posted this sh*te card.

:$ - I thought some of it was ok. Oh well...........

Here's one brief thing I wanted to say however.

If Goldberg and Lesnar are destined to face each other at Wrestlemania, then I don't really see the point of Triple H 'putting over' a mid-card talent such as John Cena or Chris Benoit.

In my view, the whole point of 'putting over' someone is so that they get the 'center stage'.....and the 'main spotlight' (i.e. when HBK 'put over' Austin at WM-14, or when The Rock 'put over' Brock Lesnar at Summerslam 02).

In this case, Lesnar and Goldberg will clearly be the focal point of WM if the two go up against one another. Both men will be the #1 face and #1 heel.

Therefore - I don't think it will do much for Benoit or Cena if they go over Triple H that night. It will have SOME effect with the fans, but not as much as it should. Most of the 'accomplishment' will be overshadowed by the much more anticipated Lesnar/Goldberg.

That is why I suggested The Rock/Triple H scenerio.

The CyNick

01-22-2004, 11:31 AM

First, I want to point out that part of the point of the thread was how Heyman would book, not necessarily how it will happen. I mean I had issues with some of the matches he suggested, but there's no need to get all mean about it.

Now, in terms of booking I just about agree with everything that BT said, so there's no need to rehash it again.

I will add that I think Benoit will get elevated because his match with Hunter will likely go on last, which means the last image people will see is Benoit winning a WWE title for the first time and beating Hunter (if they go through with that plan). That should elevate Benoit.

The Lesnar-Goldberg match will probably get more hype in terms of advertising, but as we've seen over the past two years with Mania, the most hyped match isn't always the match that goes on last. I think they'll put this match second or third from the top because the heel will go over (although I still maintain the MSG crowd will turn on Goldberg, but you cant assume that), and lets face it, that match wont be the best match of all time, and would be a poor way to end the 'greatest show of all time'.

Heyman

01-22-2004, 12:07 PM

First, I want to point out that part of the point of the thread was how Heyman would book, not necessarily how it will happen. I mean I had issues with some of the matches he suggested, but there's no need to get all mean about it.

:heart:

I will add that I think Benoit will get elevated because his match with Hunter will likely go on last, which means the last image people will see is Benoit winning a WWE title for the first time and beating Hunter (if they go through with that plan). That should elevate Benoit.

The Lesnar-Goldberg match will probably get more hype in terms of advertising, but as we've seen over the past two years with Mania, the most hyped match isn't always the match that goes on last. I think they'll put this match second or third from the top because the heel will go over (although I still maintain the MSG crowd will turn on Goldberg, but you cant assume that), and lets face it, that match wont be the best match of all time, and would be a poor way to end the 'greatest show of all time'.

See, that's the thing - Will the fans really care about Chris Benoit/Triple H after the Goldberg/Lesnar match? A few years ago, we saw how the fans reacted to Jericho/Triple H after The Rock/Hogan match. It was the equivalent of cuddling after sex.

Goldberg/Lesnar won't be the greatest match of all-time (far from it), but I'm pretty sure that this would be the match that most marks would be looking forward to the most.

Given that WM will be a 5 hour show this year, I think that the most "hyped/anticipated" match should be THE last match. The last thing the WWE wants, is the fans to be dead (or disinterested) during the *proposed* Triple H/Benoit match (keep in mind that if the HHH/Benoit match is last on the card, the fans will already have seen Lesnar/Goldberg, Mick Foley, The Rock, Steve Austin, etc.)

Benoit going over Triple H would be cool, but would the fans still care at the end of the day? THAT is my concern.

Heyman

01-22-2004, 12:54 PM

:roll: I swear, you could make the WWE go bankrupt at a faster rate than even Vince is doing right now.

:D

I don't know why you're talking to me about Cena defecting to RAW and facing HHH as if I stated it was gonna happen, cuz it's not.

Given that wrestling sites have REPORTED that there are rumors of a SD superstar defecting to Raw (to face the Raw champ), I figured that if anyone, it could be John Cena. Face it - Cena is far more 'over' then Benoit right now. That is why it would make more sense for Cena to defect, as opposed to Benoit.

And why are you mentioning whether Goldberg would play "second fiddle" to Cena? Goldberg's ass is gone after WM probably anyways...

Note the word 'probably'.....not definitely. Besides - If Goldberg IS going to leave after Wrestlemania, then he will "probably" be in the main-event. Think about it. If Goldberg was slated to leave after Wrestlemania, then why would he even bother showing up to wrestle in a pointless match? Do you really think Goldberg would agree to that? Do you think that the WWE would sign Goldberg (to a hefty sized contract between now and WM), so he could be in a NON main-event match?

And what would I do with Cena? Simple, Have him beat the Big Show's ass at NWO and win the US title, have him retain his title at WMXX and give him a lengthy title reign so that he can be built up as a legitimate contender for the WWE title a year or so from now. You'll notice that I said he was doing excellent as an up and coming face on Smackdown. It's pretty obvious that most of the best main eventers are the ones who worked their way up the ladder and proved they were ready in the midcard ranks before being pushed to main event.

This is where I disagree. Nowadays, wrestlers have to almost be immediately pushed to the main-event level, so that the fans' perception of that wrestler is of a main-eventer.

Nowadays - it is very hard to change the "perception" of what the fans thinks of a certain wrestler. Furthermore, most main-eventers today are unwilling to give up their 'spot' to allow a new mid-carder to emerge as a main-eventer.

Case in Point - In the last few years or so, how many "mid-carders" have established themselves as main-eventers? Did Benoit? Did Chris Jericho? RVD? Let's go a few years before that. Jeff Jarret was one of the greatest IC champs of all-time in the WWE. Did he get any "higher" after that?

Did Edge ever get 'elevated' after he won KOTR?

In the last 5 years or so, the only wrestlers who have been elevated to the main-event level (and have stayed there for the most part) are Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar........both of which received 'sensational' pushes upon debuting.

Jericho and Big Show have had brief main-event pushes as well, but it didn't really materialize.....because no one of significance ever did a clean JOB to them. Even Kurt Angle had a tough time establishing himself when he was champ (for the same reason).

It's for THIS reason why I feel that the time to push Randy Orton is NOW.

Think about it --> In the past few years or so, The Rock and Mick Foley are one of FEW main-eventers who are willing to put over mid-carders (Angle being the other). This is why I feel that this is a GOLDEN chance to establish Orton RIGHT NOW. He can go over Foley at Mania, and then The Rock a month later.

It's pretty much confirmed that Goldberg will face Lesnar at Wrestlemania, and Goldberg will be gone after Mania. So we won't have to worry about whether or not Goldberg is or isn't happy with anyone becoming a main event face. HHH's opponent is gonna be Benoit at WMXX. It's another thing that is getting closer and closer to being confirmed.

Goldberg/Lesnar isn't "pretty much confirmed". It's a high probability, but nothing is set in stone.

Also - ask yourself this question. What does the WWE NEED with Goldberg? In other words, why has the WWE chosen to sign Goldberg if they will mutually part ways after Wrestlemania?

Goldberg will probably be used to 'put over' someone in a HIGH PROFILE match-up (i.e. Lesnar).

This is what I was explaining to The CyNick as well. I highly doubt that a Triple H/Benoit match will be AFTER a Lesnar/Goldberg match........unless the WWE is completely retarded. 

Mark my words - if the above scenerio happens, then the fans will be completely DEAD for the Triple H/Benoit main-event. Therefore, the IMPACT of Benoit 'going over' Triple H will not be as great as it should be.

You ask if I think Rock would be content teaming with Foley and fighting Orton and Batista? Yes I do! Rock has always been one of the most unselfish guys in the business. He was constantly putting guys over when he was around a couple of years ago. Rock and Sock against Evolution would be a great fued and the build up to this match is already obvious cuz of Foley's heat with Orton. This match would probably be treated very importantly if it were to happen at WMXX. You want singles matches? Well think for a second beyond WMXX, Backlash is a RAW PPV. Do you think that a possible Orton/Foley match might happen at that PPV?

I'd rather see The Rock/Foley vs. Orton/Triple H happen BEFORE Wrestlemania, but Orton going over Foley at Backlash isn't too bad a scenerio.

However - having The Rock/Foley go up against Orton/Batista at WM is a crappy scenerio in my opinion.

When you've got a guy like The Rock (a bonafide superstar), you have to have him in a high profile match-up. Having Triple H in the match is ok, but certainly not Dave Batista. From a marketing standpoint, do you really think the fans will care THAT much about Rock/Foley going up against BATISTA/Orton?

If you want Rock N' Sock at Wrestlemania; that's fine. However - you have to have atleast ONE high profile superstar as an opponent.

Cena staying on Smackdown is still doable because his fueds with UT, Brock, and Angle were all very short. They could easily be restarted again. Fans were dying to see Cena against brock a few weeks ago when he went against Benoit for a shot at the title. And Cena did lose to Benoit, but he was made to look very strong in the match. And if you want to count wins or whatever, Cena beat Benoit cleanly in the finals of the tournament leading to Backlash last year. Cena will have no problem being presented as a threat to main eventers if he is built up the right way. I wasn't suggesting Cena main event this year's Wrestlemania, I want that honor to go to Benoit (who definately deserves it)

I agree about Benoit deserving to win the world title, but I just don't like the WM scenerio.....especially if Lesnar and Goldberg are going toe-to-toe at Mania. If Lesnar and Goldberg 'go' at Mania', it will overshadow practically everything. Therefore, Benoit defeating Triple H won't be as BIG as it deserves to be . Argue this all you want, but I believe it to be true..........even if Benoit/HHH is the last match.

I'd like to see Benoit (stay on Smackdown), and eventually defeat Brock Lesnar (who a few months earlier defeats Goldberg at WM) to win the WWE title..............At Summerslam perhaps.

Orton is in a good position, but he is still improving. Orton is really good, possibly the star of the future, but pushing him to main events before he is fully ready is just a bad idea. Being a good main eventer isn't about whether or not the WWE gives you the right push, you have to have the talent to prove you are actually good enough to be considered the best.

Well then by your logic, Jericho and Benoit should've been established main-eventers by now. You can be the most talented guy in the world, but it means SQUAT if no main-eventer is going to give up their 'spot' (or if the WWE simply does not want to push you).

A lot it, has to do with perception. If the fans perceive you as a "mid-carder", then it will be VERY difficult to change that perception. This perception is almost solidified when mid-carders are made to JOB to main-event superstars 

Do you ever wonder why a guy like Test has trouble 'staying over'? He gets pushed, but then de-pushed. It's because the fans have "stereotyped" test as a mid-carder.

Look at someone like Brock Lesnar now. The fans CLEARLY see him as a main-eventer now. Why? Because - he was immediately pushed.

WWE is doing a great job of pushing sparky holly, but he sure as hell isn't good enough to be considered a true main event guy. (and anyone who says differently is ****ing stupid IMO, not only does he suck, he just looks like a retard)

I agree with this. Hardcore Holly is only being *temporarily* built up, so that Lesnar looks even better when he squashes him as the rumble.

I don't know why you think HHH/Rock would be a good idea for WMXX with Rock winning. So what if they had a good fued 3 years ago? Just because a fued or angle was good in the past, doesn't mean it should be revisited (NWO and DX reforming so many times definately didn't work out) HHH/Rock wouldn't in any way help out the WWE. It might possibly have a little bit of interest to some people, but it wouldn't cause ratings or buyrates to go up very much (if it would make them go up at all) But after WMXX, when HHH and Rock are filming movies how will the two of them revisiting an old fued have helped the WWE? IT WON'T!!!!!!

Rock/HHH may not cause PPV buyrates to significantly increase, but it IS a high profile match. I also think that you under estimate the Rock/HHH rivalry. In year 2000 (when the was argubaly at its peak), The Rock/HHH feud was THE #1 feud. If Rock/HHH have a go at Mania' (for the title), I think the fans would be interested.

The whole point of The Rock winning the title (in my scenerio), would be for The Rock to JOB the title to Orton a month later.

now HHH/Benoit will help establish Benoit as a true main eventer player who is truly the best and will definately have an impact on the RAW scene for awhile at least.

Even if Triple H and Goldberg both leave, do you really think the marks will accept Benoit over guys like Chris Jericho and Rob Van Dam? In terms of popularity, there is no question as to whom the fans LIKE more.

Again - I don't think Benoit defeating Triple H at Mania' (where Goldberg/Lesnar will 'overshadow' any ramifications of Benoit winning the title) will do that much.

and if you're gonna say that "HHH will just make Benoit do a JOB" then for the tenth time I am saying... HHH is leaving to film movies, so him doing the JOB to Benoit is actually very likely!!!

Source? (i.e. where it's CONFIRMED that HHH will leave to film movies after WM).

Your plan of Orton winnig IC and World title? NO WAY!!!!

Orton and Cena are clearly the stars of the future, but they both are still improving. It is a better move to wait until they are ready to carry themselves as main eventers, not be pushed into main events and have someone else try and carry them. You think Cena's rap gimmick is gonna get stale? uhhh NO. His fan base is still growing. Cena's gimmick is good, and he's pulling it off great. He has already had a heel run, and the fans have been wanting to cheer for him for awhile, so why would you suddenly bring him back heel when he is showing he is good as an up and coming face?

As I've stated, I disagree. Orton and Cena should be pushed immediately IMO. I also think that heels can naturally be more creative than faces. This is another reason why I'd like to see Cena turn heel again.

[/QUOTE]

Loose Cannon

01-22-2004, 01:02 PM

Orton as World and I.C. Champ :drool: I can't wait for Orton and Batista to turn on HHH and Flair, but if I were going to add two more members, it would be Jindrack and Cade. They are an up and coming heel tag team, much like the Outlaws were before they joined DX. Joining Evolution would get them over huge and it's better to have a stable have a tag team in them anyways. All the great 4 or 5 man stables had tag teams in them. I don't like John Cena joining Evolution because he is a "loner" type of character who doesn't need anybody to get over, like Austin in 98. Also O'Haire, if we ever see him again, should keep his "dark" character and maybe they can bring him in to side with Kane when the Kane-Taker feud gets under way. He could be the whole reason for Kane turning on the fans, his brother, and going to the dark side.

The CyNick

01-22-2004, 01:49 PM

:heart:

See, that's the thing - Will the fans really care about Chris Benoit/Triple H after the Goldberg/Lesnar match? A few years ago, we saw how the fans reacted to Jericho/Triple H after The Rock/Hogan match. It was the equivalent of cuddling after sex.

Goldberg/Lesnar won't be the greatest match of all-time (far from it), but I'm pretty sure that this would be the match that most marks would be looking forward to the most.

Given that WM will be a 5 hour show this year, I think that the most "hyped/anticipated" match should be THE last match. The last thing the WWE wants, is the fans to be dead (or disinterested) during the *proposed* Triple H/Benoit match (keep in mind that if the HHH/Benoit match is last on the card, the fans will already have seen Lesnar/Goldberg, Mick Foley, The Rock, Steve Austin, etc.)

Benoit going over Triple H would be cool, but would the fans still care at the end of the day? THAT is my concern.

Thats a legit concern, and the answer is how well they build up Benoit in the weeks leading to Mania. I think if Benoit is to win the Rumble by lasting over an hour he will have some momentum. On top of that, if they build up the fact that Benoit has worked so hard for so long, and winning a World Title in the WWE is his life's dream, then I think the people will get behind him. The other thing to consider is that there will only be 18-19,000 fans in the Garden. By my logic that means you will have a larger percentage of hardcore fans. I mean, I was at Mania in Skydome, and a lot of the crowd came basically to see Hogan-Rock and could care less about the rest of the card. In contrast I expect the crowd at the Garden to be a larger percentage of 'smark marks' and they will appreciate Benoit finally winning a World Title, and especially since he's defeating HHH for it (aghain, assuming that happens). I believe the fact that its in the Garden is a bonus for Benoit, because I think they will treat Benoit like a star. I mean you look at the recent past in the Garden, and a guy like Tazz recieved a huge ovation, even though the only people who knew about him were hardcore ECW fans. Yet on his debut, Tazz got a huge pop, and looked like a star. I think Benoit will have that kind of support ten times over. But again, a lot of it has to do with the build, and how Benoit is booked on RAW in the weeks leading to Mania.

The CyNick

01-22-2004, 02:18 PM

RE other points:

I dont think its the right to time for Cena or Orton to carry either the RAW or SD titles. I'm a firm believer that the best way to make money in wrestling is to make people want something, BEFORE you actually give it them.

This is more important withg Cena because he's a face, but it can also apply to Orton.

The WWE has show in the past, an inability to push people in the midcard and keep them strong. What usually happens is that a mid carder will find themselves in a meningless match on TV with a top guy, get punked or jobbed out, and that hurts their ability to draw in the future. Form what Ive heard about who the WWE wants to push, I have faith that they can push Orton and Cena as near main event guys, without killing them before they are ready for that big main event push.

The truth of the matter is that its almost impossible to know when a guy is ready to carry a company, but I think with both these guys its better to continue to build them up slowly, and then a year from now, when they have been dominant for over a year, people will be clamouring to see them main event.

I mean you look at Cena, and he's yet to get that big win, but both Benoit and Angle made him look legit, this helped him turn babyafce. Now, if you look to the future of SD, you will likely have a heel Angle, and I could see a huge Cena-Angle fued as a semi main event fued under say a Brock-Eddie or Brock-Edge fued (or God Forbid another Brock-Taker fued). Again, if Cena gets the US title at or before Mania, and keeps it for 8 months to a year, people will see him as a rising star and they will be ready to pay to see him win the big match. Not to use a tired reference, but if you look back at Austin's rise in the WWE, you will see that he was basically the top face in the company at or just after WM 13, but the WWe waited a whole year before they put the big title on him. During that year they managed to make him one of, if not the main focale point of the shows, but he didn't get the big title. Then when it finally happened, people were more than accpeting of him as champ.

The idea of Cena as a heel is bad IMO, because the fans clearly turned Cena face, and I believe its counterproductive to go against what the fans want. I mean we all know what happened when the WWE turned Austin and the fans didn't want it. Now, Cena isn't Austin, but its the same principle.

Orton is a slightly different deal, because he's a heel. However, you dont want fans to feel like he's being crammed down their throats. Plus, lets face it, Orton is not ready for main events in terms of ring work, or even promos. A nice fued for 2 or 3 months with Foley will do wonders for him, and maybe in 6 months, if he's still improving, then I would definately say he could carry the RAW Heavyweight Title. My thinking is that they should build up Benoit as a worthy champ, or even a guy like Jericho (as a face) who down the road would make a good champ, who could then drop to Orton. But again, Orton would do wonders for himself if he holds the IC title, but like Cena on SD, has semi main event programs that keep him strong. There are a ton of babyfaces on RAW who could put over Orton. BT, RVD and Jericho could all have semi main event fueds with Orton, and put him over. That would slowly make him seem more legit in fans eyes.

As for Rock and Foley against Orton and Batista. I agree that Batista isn't a huge star, but he is in the main angle on RAW being part of Evolution, so its not like we're talking about Test or something. The way I would book that fued is to have the focal point be Orton-Foley, but Evolution gets involved, which causes Rock to come back and make it a tag. Then Orton can play chicken (despite him calling Foley a coward for so long) and Batista would be used as the monster protecting Orton. Eventually this would lead to Rock and Foley winning, perhaps by pinning Batista. The way I see it, Orton-Foley is a hot fued right now, Rock just adds another high profile name to the fued, which makes it a main event program. Of course the other option would be to put Flair with Orton instead of Batista. Ive said before, I dont mind the idea of Foley-Orton one on one, but I think its more effective to hold off the one on one match till Backlash.

I dont like HHH vs Rock, just because as I mentioned Rock vs Austin didn't do huge numbers, and that was a bigger fued, so why would HHH vs Rock do any better? Plus, I like the idea of HHH putting over Benoit instead of a lateral fued with Rock. The problem with Rock is that he has nobody left to face. HBK's name has been throw around, but I dont really think thats a money program (I dont think HBK is on Rock's level). Then you could do Rock vs Flair, and while those promos would be heel cool, I dont think this would be the best idea because Flair hasn't been portrayed as a top guy. Rock vs Cena has been talked about, but I dont think thats the best idea because I dont think they should risk Cena getting booed. Thats why I think the best idea is to have Rock and Foley team up, which would be something that hasn't happened in a long while, and its an easy way to get Rock and Foley a win without hurting anyone's push.

Heyman

01-22-2004, 02:41 PM

Orton as World and I.C. Champ :drool: I can't wait for Orton and Batista to turn on HHH and Flair, but if I were going to add two more members, it would be Jindrack and Cade.

Finally - someone else who likes my idea with Orton. :love:

As far as Jindrak and Cade go however, I'm not sure if I'd like to add them to the Evolution stable. It's not a bad idea IMO, but I'd personally prefer to see Evolution be more 'elitist' to keep its credibility. With my original idea, I'd enjoyed the thought of Batista and O'Haire becoming a tag team.

I agree that O'Haire would be better off being a 'loner' who maintains his dark character, but the WWE isn't pushing him right now. I just figured that this would be a good way to get him on TV (since O'Haire has the 'look' and 'size', I figured that fans would be receptive towards him).

Loose Cannon

01-22-2004, 03:46 PM

Finally - someone else who likes my idea with Orton. :love:

As far as Jindrak and Cade go however, I'm not sure if I'd like to add them to the Evolution stable. It's not a bad idea IMO, but I'd personally prefer to see Evolution be more 'elitist' to keep its credibility. With my original idea, I'd enjoyed the thought of Batista and O'Haire becoming a tag team.

I agree that O'Haire would be better off being a 'loner' who maintains his dark character, but the WWE isn't pushing him right now. I just figured that this would be a good way to get him on TV (since O'Haire has the 'look' and 'size', I figured that fans would be receptive towards him).

See, IMO, if they were going to go ahead and make Orton the leader the a "New Evolution" stable, I wouldn't make it a stable of "elite" wrestlers because they already are doing that with the current Evolution stable, well in WWE terms. I would make Orton the main centerpiece of the stable and then put other guys in there that wouldn't overshadow him. That would do wonders for Orton and it would help out the younger guys that were in the stable, like Cade, Jindrack, Maven.

But I wish the WWE would start planting the seeds for a breakup and I hope they don't just do it in one shot, like Orton screwing up at the Rumble or something. I hope they let the fans kind of see that a split is imminent, mainly between Orton and HHH. What I would do is before the split, I would make Orton start acting like he his above HHH in interviews and act like he is the real star of Evolution. I would have him start doing little irritating things like: taking the mic first in interviews, dressing in t-shirt and jeans when HHH, Flair and Batista are wearing suits, arriving late to interviews and then saying he was with a few ladies, and even starting sh** with other wrestlers just because he is in Evolution. Now all of this will get HHH pissed at Orton and then when Orton screws up and accidently costs HHH a match, that would be the "starw that broke the camel's back."

Heyman

01-22-2004, 03:53 PM

RE other points:

I dont think its the right to time for Cena or Orton to carry either the RAW or SD titles. I'm a firm believer that the best way to make money in wrestling is to make people want something, BEFORE you actually give it them.

Wouldn't you agree that Cena and Orton are way over right now though? Also - take a look at Brock Lesnar. One can make a good case that Lesnar was pushed way too fast (and the fans didn't necccessarily clamour for it), but the bottom line is that Lesnar became established as a main-eventer. Lesnar BROKE THROUGH the glass ceiling........something of which almost no one has done over the past 5-6 years.

This is more important withg Cena because he's a face, but it can also apply to Orton.

Very true.

The WWE has show in the past, an inability to push people in the midcard and keep them strong. What usually happens is that a mid carder will find themselves in a meningless match on TV with a top guy, get punked or jobbed out, and that hurts their ability to draw in the future. Form what Ive heard about who the WWE wants to push, I have faith that they can push Orton and Cena as near main event guys, without killing them before they are ready for that big main event push.

IF (and only 'if') the WWE can push these guys as 'near main-event' guys without making them to look 'inferior', then I'm all for it. However - I remain skeptical if they can do that. Look at Jericho and Benoit for instance. A few years ago, people were CONFIDENT that they would easily take The Rock and Triple H's spot. Did it happen? No. Despite both men having respectable IC title reigns, they were made to look inferior to the likes of The Rock, Triple H, etc. Neither men really 'broke through' for an extended period of time.

The truth of the matter is that its almost impossible to know when a guy is ready to carry a company, but I think with both these guys its better to continue to build them up slowly, and then a year from now, when they have been dominant for over a year, people will be clamouring to see them main event.

I agree with that, but I think it's also safe to say that this 'system' hasn't been all that productive during the last few years. It's just SO damn hard to break through the 'glass ceiling' nowadays. Whatever happened to Edge's KOTR push? Did it EVER materialize? Even with wins over Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, and Eddie Guerrero, did Edge ever get put into a position of main-eventing?

Here's my thinking:

Unless a guy is WAY over (i.e like Eddie Guerrero is now....or was a few months ago), the fans will NOT get behind a guy who has been in the mid-cards for too long.....no matter how much the WWE wants the fans to 'accept' him

If this is the case, then why RISK putting a blue-chip prospect in the mid-cards for too long? You put a guy in the mid-cards for too long, and they basically become like Test, Val Venis, and Billy Gunn (i.e. brief pushes that will never materialize).

Now look at Lesnar. The WWE didn't give a sh</>it as to whether the fans "liked" Lesnar or not. They simply pushed Lesnar to the main-events, and the fans eventually ACCEPTED Lesnar as a bona-fide main-eventer.

Here is my thinking with Orton and Cena

If you can somehow "guarantee" that the fans' perception of Cena/Orton (in terms of potential for main-eventing) will NOT change for the worse in anyway, then I am all for 'paying their dues' in the mid-cards. 

However - Now take a look at people like Rob Van Dam, Booker T, Edge, and Chris Jericho.

All of these men have been below 'main-event' status for quite sometime now (despite each of these men 'being in the position' to be given a *solidified* main-event push..........each of these men have also 'paid their dues' as well).

The problem with these men however, is that they've been made to JOB to 'main-eventers' such as Triple H, Goldberg, etc., (and hence - have been made to look inferior).

Since so much backstage politics come into play, do you think it's easy for wrestlers to give other wrestlers their 'spot'? If yes - then how do you explain Triple H not 'putting over' the likes of RVD, Booker T, and Jericho of late?

How do you explain Angle, Jericho, and Benoit never 'going over' The Rock and Triple H in 2000?

Unless the WWE decide to FULLY COMMIT themselves to Cena and Orton for the next year (and protect them at all costs, while making them to still look 'dominant' like Austin was in 97'), then I am against the idea of them 'paying their dues' within the mid-cards

I mean you look at Cena, and he's yet to get that big win, but both Benoit and Angle made him look legit, this helped him turn babyafce. Now, if you look to the future of SD, you will likely have a heel Angle, and I could see a huge Cena-Angle fued as a semi main event fued under say a Brock-Eddie or Brock-Edge fued (or God Forbid another Brock-Taker fued). Again, if Cena gets the US title at or before Mania, and keeps it for 8 months to a year, people will see him as a rising star and they will be ready to pay to see him win the big match.

If Cena and Guerrero both 'go over' Angle and Lesnar CLEANLY respectively, then I am all for your idea. I've just completely lost faith in the WWE's inability to get rid of the 'glass ceiling'. How else do you explain Guerrero's NON-PUSH in the latter stages of the summer? The guy was WAY over. Was he ever pushed?

Not to use a tired reference, but if you look back at Austin's rise in the WWE, you will see that he was basically the top face in the company at or just after WM 13, but the WWe waited a whole year before they put the big title on him. During that year they managed to make him one of, if not the main focale point of the shows, but he didn't get the big title. Then when it finally happened, people were more than accpeting of him as champ.

If the WWE are willing to do that with John Cena and/or Eddie Guerrero, then I'll be happy. If recent history is of any indication however, then I have my reservations. How else do you explain Stephanie friggin McMahon and Sable getting more (or as much) TV time as Eddie Guerrero and John Cena a few months ago? Or f</>ucking A-TRAIN getting TV time?

Your whole "Let's push Cena in the same manner that they pushed Austin" strategy will only work if the WWE commits to it. Based on recent history however, I think the WWE would be too stupid to give Cena that push. Eventually - they'll 'peg' him as a mid-carder, and forget all about his "Austin-like" one year build-up

The idea of Cena as a heel is bad IMO, because the fans clearly turned Cena face, and I believe its counterproductive to go against what the fans want. I mean we all know what happened when the WWE turned Austin and the fans didn't want it. Now, Cena isn't Austin, but its the same principle.

Maybe Cena wouldn't have to turn heel. Maybe Cena and Austin can FACE each other as fan-favorites? (like Hogan and Warrior?). Maybe the fans can decide whether to 'cheer' or 'boo' Cena based on his pending feud with Austin. If the fans continue to cheer Cena, then maybe even have him 'go over' Austin at Mania with a pinfall victory (and then have Austin toss Cena a beer at the end of the match as a sign of respect).

Orton is a slightly different deal, because he's a heel. However, you dont want fans to feel like he's being crammed down their throats. Plus, lets face it, Orton is not ready for main events in terms of ring work, or even promos.

I think the fans have reacted nicely to Orton. Besides - I still use Brock Lesnar as an example. Lesnar WAS crammed down the fans' throats but at the end of the day, he BECAME a main-eventer....period.

Orton may not be ready for main events in terms of ring work, but he can develop in to that role. Hulk Hogan was one of the sh</>ittest wrestlers of all-time, but that didn't stop him. In 1998, Austin was only an average wrestler. He didn't become a great in-ring worker until much later than that.

A nice fued for 2 or 3 months with Foley will do wonders for him, and maybe in 6 months, if he's still improving, then I would definately say he could carry the RAW Heavyweight Title. My thinking is that they should build up Benoit as a worthy champ, or even a guy like Jericho (as a face) who down the road would make a good champ, who could then drop to Orton. But again, Orton would do wonders for himself if he holds the IC title, but like Cena on SD, has semi main event programs that keep him strong. There are a ton of babyfaces on RAW who could put over Orton. BT, RVD and Jericho could all have semi main event fueds with Orton, and put him over. That would slowly make him seem more legit in fans eyes.

But their lies the problem. If you have Orton as IC champ (and then have guys like RVD, Jericho, and BT jobbing to him), then you further kill the chance of guys like RVD, Jericho, and BT EVER being accepted as main-event face champions.

Now - change the scene a bit. You have a guy like Orton (who has defeated Foley and The Rock on one on one competition). Orton is World Champ. You then have a challenger in Jericho or RVD. If Jericho or RVD lose? No big deal? Orton is World Champ. He was EXPECTED to win After all, this guy beat The Rock! If RVD or Jericho win though, then they become champ.

As for Rock and Foley against Orton and Batista. I agree that Batista isn't a huge star, but he is in the main angle on RAW being part of Evolution, so its not like we're talking about Test or something.

Will The Rock be happy in feuding with Triple H's "henchmen"? If you recall last year, The Rock had a problem in jobbing to Booker T one on one, because Triple H was slated to beat BT at mania (so in effect, Triple H would look 'superior' to The Rock). This is what the rumor was anyways.

The way I would book that fued is to have the focal point be Orton-Foley, but Evolution gets involved, which causes Rock to come back and make it a tag. Then Orton can play chicken (despite him calling Foley a coward for so long) and Batista would be used as the monster protecting Orton. Eventually this would lead to Rock and Foley winning, perhaps by pinning Batista. The way I see it, Orton-Foley is a hot fued right now, Rock just adds another high profile name to the fued, which makes it a main event program.

This idea actually sounds good. :y:

I dont like HHH vs Rock, just because as I mentioned Rock vs Austin didn't do huge numbers, and that was a bigger fued, so why would HHH vs Rock do any better?

Because

1)Rock/Austin had been done before at Mania'
2)Rock/Austin had both come off of lengthy absences
3)Rock/Austin only had a one month build up.
4)Rock/Austin was NOT for any title.

With HHH/Rock (in my scenerio), all of these would be addressed. Rock/HHH have never gone one on one at Mania, while The Rock/HHH feud would also have a proper 2 month build up. It would also be for the World title.

Plus, I like the idea of HHH putting over Benoit instead of a lateral fued with Rock.

If Benoit leaves for Raw, then who goes to SD? Keep in mind that Goldberg and Kane may also be making roster switches for their respective feuds.

The problem with Rock is that he has nobody left to face. HBK's name has been throw around, but I dont really think thats a money program (I dont think HBK is on Rock's level). Then you could do Rock vs Flair, and while those promos would be heel cool, I dont think this would be the best idea because Flair hasn't been portrayed as a top guy. Rock vs Cena has been talked about, but I dont think thats the best idea because I dont think they should risk Cena getting booed. Thats why I think the best idea is to have Rock and Foley team up, which would be something that hasn't happened in a long while, and its an easy way to get Rock and Foley a win without hurting anyone's push.

I guess I can agree with the above scenerio.

One thing with The Rock though - If The Rock were to become World Champ and then appear on WWE television, don't you think ratings would increase? 

Now that I think about it - Here is what I'd rather see now.

-Have The Rock become World Champ at Wrestlemania by defeating Triple H (Rock as champ on TV could help ratings a bit).

-Have Lesnar defeat Goldberg at Mania'

-Have Orton and Cena stay down at the mid-card level (as you and BT suggested), but ENSURE that they look domiant as champ (Have Orton look like 'Jeff Jarret from 99', while Cena looks like 'Austin from 97').

-Have The Rock challenge Lesnar (rematch from Summerslam 02') and have him JOB (Rock then leaves for the movies again).

-Lesnar becomes Champ for both shows (and appears on both shows).

-Continue building up Benoit. In up-coming months, have him defeat a heel Angle, etc. At Summerslam, Benoit defeats Lesnar to become Undisputed Champ (to appear on both shows).

The CyNick

01-22-2004, 04:35 PM

I know for a fact that the WWE has no plans to unify the World Titles, they like having a champ on each show, and thats what they are sticking with for the near future. Personally, I like the idea of a unified champ, but the WWE doesn't feel the same way.

The skepticism on pushing mid card guys to main eventers is a fair one, given the WWE's history. The difference between then and now is that the WWE doesn't have anyone who is drawing money, and there is a sense of urgency in terms of making new stars. The other difference is that the WWE internally has faith in Orton and Cena, whereas 2 and 3 years ago they didn't really have faith in guys like Benoit, Jericho, Eddie, BT, and RVD. All of those guys were given mediocre pushes, but really the people making the decisions had no intentions of investing time and money into making them top stars. With Cena and Orton (WWE homegrown talent) there is a sense that the comapny wants to make them the new stars for the future.

Edge is an example of a guy they planned on pushing, but due to injuries he obviously couldn't be pushed. If you look at what he was doing before the injury, he was having good matches with a lot of different guys, and getting a lot of wins. It was just a matter of time before they pushed him to that next level. They did give him the KOTR win a little too early, but when they decided to push him it was a strong push.

With Lesnar, he's a little different. He was given the 'Goldberg' monster push, and they did a great job with that (until the day after Summerslam). The only problem is that you cant do that with everyone. So, the way they pushed Lesnar isn't going to be the same way you push guys like Cena and Orton.

I like the concept of Orton getting wins over Foley and Rock, but that might be too much too soon. People have to accept that Orton is at the level where he can beat Foley, but to have him beat Rock only a month later, in my opinion might be too much too soon. I'd rather see Orton beat Foley either at Mania or Backlash, and then maybe 6 months from now he beats Rock. That way people will have had even more time to accept Orton as a main event guy, before having him go over the biggest PPV draw in history.

I dont agree with the thinking that just because Orton beats Rock he is automatically over to the point where he makes RVD and Booker T a main event star. You actually run the risk of making the World Title become a mid card title like it was when Angle got his first reign, or even HHH when he got his first couple of reigns. To me, thats just about the worst thing that can happen. I mean you take Angle, and he beat Rock for his first title, but really fans weren't ready for it, what happened was that Angle as champ was relegated to the mid card. I think the same would happen if Orton were to win the big gold belt in the next three months people would see the World Title as a mid card title.

If you wait, Orton gets built up, and people see him as an uncrowned champ, and then when he gets the belt, people are like "yeah that makes sense", and they will accept it. Of course, like I mentioned the key is that they keep him strong, which I believe they will knowing what I know.

Heyman

01-22-2004, 06:11 PM

I know for a fact that the WWE has no plans to unify the World Titles, they like having a champ on each show, and thats what they are sticking with for the near future. Personally, I like the idea of a unified champ, but the WWE doesn't feel the same way.

It's too bad. It would make the World title mean more. It would also allow for the WWE to create more potential match-ups, but :-\ . Oh well.

The skepticism on pushing mid card guys to main eventers is a fair one, given the WWE's history. The difference between then and now is that the WWE doesn't have anyone who is drawing money, and there is a sense of urgency in terms of making new stars.

True, but what do you do it this case?

1)Push guys like RVD, Jericho, Kane, and Benoit (who have been made to look 'inferior' to the likes of Triple H, The Rock, Austin, Goldberg, etc. for years)...

2)Push guys (right away) like Cena, Orton, and Lesnar in hopes that the fanbase perceives these 3 as 'extraordinary' due to them achieving so much in such little time, and not looking too inferior in the process.

I guess either strategy is 'ok' , but I'd be interested to see with what happens with option#2.

The other difference is that the WWE internally has faith in Orton and Cena, whereas 2 and 3 years ago they didn't really have faith in guys like Benoit, Jericho, Eddie, BT, and RVD. All of those guys were given mediocre pushes, but really the people making the decisions had no intentions of investing time and money into making them top stars. With Cena and Orton (WWE homegrown talent) there is a sense that the comapny wants to make them the new stars for the future.

That's good then. Let's just pray that the WWE pushes them 'the right way' in the mid-cards.

Edge is an example of a guy they planned on pushing, but due to injuries he obviously couldn't be pushed. If you look at what he was doing before the injury, he was having good matches with a lot of different guys, and getting a lot of wins. It was just a matter of time before they pushed him to that next level. They did give him the KOTR win a little too early, but when they decided to push him it was a strong push.

Speaking of Edge, do you really think he was *that* popular? I think Edge was popular, but was he as really as popular as guys like RVD, Jericho, and Cena? (let alone his predecessors Austin, The Rock, etc.).

With Lesnar, he's a little different. He was given the 'Goldberg' monster push, and they did a great job with that (until the day after Summerslam). The only problem is that you cant do that with everyone. So, the way they pushed Lesnar isn't going to be the same way you push guys like Cena and Orton.

Good point, but I think that the WWE could get away with it if they did it with Orton (and Cena). Just no one else from that point onwards.

I like the concept of Orton getting wins over Foley and Rock, but that might be too much too soon. People have to accept that Orton is at the level where he can beat Foley, but to have him beat Rock only a month later, in my opinion might be too much too soon. I'd rather see Orton beat Foley either at Mania or Backlash, and then maybe 6 months from now he beats Rock. That way people will have had even more time to accept Orton as a main event guy, before having him go over the biggest PPV draw in history.

True. I guess it works either way. I was just imagining the type of momentum that Orton would have with back to back wins over Foley and The Rock (and then soon to be followed over Ric Flair and Triple H).

With Orton then as champ, it allows guys like Jericho and RVD to 'step up' and contend for the belt.

But like you said - If Orton becomes champ, perhaps the fans' will perceive the belt to be a 'mid-card level belt.

I dont agree with the thinking that just because Orton beats Rock he is automatically over to the point where he makes RVD and Booker T a main event star. You actually run the risk of making the World Title become a mid card title like it was when Angle got his first reign, or even HHH when he got his first couple of reigns. To me, thats just about the worst thing that can happen. I mean you take Angle, and he beat Rock for his first title, but really fans weren't ready for it, what happened was that Angle as champ was relegated to the mid card. I think the same would happen if Orton were to win the big gold belt in the next three months people would see the World Title as a mid card title.

Keep in mind however, that Angle never had any convincing victories during his title reign (nor did Jericho). In both cases, both men cheated in all of their matches to win and therefore, didn't gain credibility. Ditto for Triple H when he first won the title. His win over Austin looked very flukey.

Would the same thing happen if Orton convincingly defeated Foley and The Rock cleanly? (to be followed with a clean win over Ric Flair, and then a semi-clean win over Triple H).

If you wait, Orton gets built up, and people see him as an uncrowned champ, and then when he gets the belt, people are like "yeah that makes sense", and they will accept it. Of course, like I mentioned the key is that they keep him strong, which I believe they will knowing what I know.

I hope you're right. I just worry that in the absence of Goldberg and Triple H, the fans won't really perceive anyone to be a 'main-eventer' due to the fact that guys like RVD, Jericho, etc. have been made to look 'inferior' for so long.

Just a quick thought with Benoit. If Benoit won the title from Triple H, would you consider him to be in the same position as Angle from a few years ago? (i.e. the fans will perceive the Raw World title to be a 'midcard' title).

I guess this depends on Triple H, but do you think he'll do the CLEAN job to Benoit?

BasicThuganomics

01-22-2004, 11:51 PM

:D
Given that wrestling sites have REPORTED that there are rumors of a SD superstar defecting to Raw (to face the Raw champ), I figured that if anyone, it could be John Cena. Face it - Cena is far more 'over' then Benoit right now. That is why it would make more sense for Cena to defect, as opposed to Benoit.
Note the word 'probably'.....not definitely. Besides - If Goldberg IS going to leave after Wrestlemania, then he will "probably" be in the main-event. Think about it. If Goldberg was slated to leave after Wrestlemania, then why would he even bother showing up to wrestle in a pointless match? Do you really think Goldberg would agree to that? Do you think that the WWE would sign Goldberg (to a hefty sized contract between now and WM), so he could be in a NON main-event match?
This is where I disagree. Nowadays, wrestlers have to almost be immediately pushed to the main-event level, so that the fans' perception of that wrestler is of a main-eventer.
Nowadays - it is very hard to change the "perception" of what the fans thinks of a certain wrestler. Furthermore, most main-eventers today are unwilling to give up their 'spot' to allow a new mid-carder to emerge as a main-eventer.
Case in Point - In the last few years or so, how many "mid-carders" have established themselves as main-eventers? Did Benoit? Did Chris Jericho? RVD? Let's go a few years before that. Jeff Jarret was one of the greatest IC champs of all-time in the WWE. Did he get any "higher" after that?
Did Edge ever get 'elevated' after he won KOTR?
In the last 5 years or so, the only wrestlers who have been elevated to the main-event level (and have stayed there for the most part) are Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar........both of which received 'sensational' pushes upon debuting.
Jericho and Big Show have had brief main-event pushes as well, but it didn't really materialize.....because no one of significance ever did a clean JOB to them. Even Kurt Angle had a tough time establishing himself when he was champ (for the same reason).
It's for THIS reason why I feel that the time to push Randy Orton is NOW.
Think about it --> In the past few years or so, The Rock and Mick Foley are one of FEW main-eventers who are willing to put over mid-carders (Angle being the other). This is why I feel that this is a GOLDEN chance to establish Orton RIGHT NOW. He can go over Foley at Mania, and then The Rock a month later.
Goldberg/Lesnar isn't "pretty much confirmed". It's a high probability, but nothing is set in stone.
Also - ask yourself this question. What does the WWE NEED with Goldberg? In other words, why has the WWE chosen to sign Goldberg if they will mutually part ways after Wrestlemania?
Goldberg will probably be used to 'put over' someone in a HIGH PROFILE match-up (i.e. Lesnar).
This is what I was explaining to The CyNick as well. I highly doubt that a Triple H/Benoit match will be AFTER a Lesnar/Goldberg match........unless the WWE is completely retarded. 
Mark my words - if the above scenerio happens, then the fans will be completely DEAD for the Triple H/Benoit main-event. Therefore, the IMPACT of Benoit 'going over' Triple H will not be as great as it should be.
I'd rather see The Rock/Foley vs. Orton/Triple H happen BEFORE Wrestlemania, but Orton going over Foley at Backlash isn't too bad a scenerio.
However - having The Rock/Foley go up against Orton/Batista at WM is a crappy scenerio in my opinion.
When you've got a guy like The Rock (a bonafide superstar), you have to have him in a high profile match-up. Having Triple H in the match is ok, but certainly not Dave Batista. From a marketing standpoint, do you really think the fans will care THAT much about Rock/Foley going up against BATISTA/Orton?
If you want Rock N' Sock at Wrestlemania; that's fine. However - you have to have atleast ONE high profile superstar as an opponent.
I agree about Benoit deserving to win the world title, but I just don't like the WM scenerio.....especially if Lesnar and Goldberg are going toe-to-toe at Mania. If Lesnar and Goldberg 'go' at Mania', it will overshadow practically everything. Therefore, Benoit defeating Triple H won't be as BIG as it deserves to be . Argue this all you want, but I believe it to be true..........even if Benoit/HHH is the last match.
I'd like to see Benoit (stay on Smackdown), and eventually defeat Brock Lesnar (who a few months earlier defeats Goldberg at WM) to win the WWE title..............At Summerslam perhaps.
Well then by your logic, Jericho and Benoit should've been established main-eventers by now. You can be the most talented guy in the world, but it means SQUAT if no main-eventer is going to give up their 'spot' (or if the WWE simply does not want to push you).
A lot it, has to do with perception. If the fans perceive you as a "mid-carder", then it will be VERY difficult to change that perception. This perception is almost solidified when mid-carders are made to JOB to main-event superstars 
Do you ever wonder why a guy like Test has trouble 'staying over'? He gets pushed, but then de-pushed. It's because the fans have "stereotyped" test as a mid-carder.
Look at someone like Brock Lesnar now. The fans CLEARLY see him as a main-eventer now. Why? Because - he was immediately pushed.
I agree with this. Hardcore Holly is only being *temporarily* built up, so that Lesnar looks even better when he squashes him as the rumble.
Rock/HHH may not cause PPV buyrates to significantly increase, but it IS a high profile match. I also think that you under estimate the Rock/HHH rivalry. In year 2000 (when the was argubaly at its peak), The Rock/HHH feud was THE #1 feud. If Rock/HHH have a go at Mania' (for the title), I think the fans would be interested.
The whole point of The Rock winning the title (in my scenerio), would be for The Rock to JOB the title to Orton a month later.
Even if Triple H and Goldberg both leave, do you really think the marks will accept Benoit over guys like Chris Jericho and Rob Van Dam? In terms of popularity, there is no question as to whom the fans LIKE more.
Again - I don't think Benoit defeating Triple H at Mania' (where Goldberg/Lesnar will 'overshadow' any ramifications of Benoit winning the title) will do that much.
Source? (i.e. where it's CONFIRMED that HHH will leave to film movies after WM).
As I've stated, I disagree. Orton and Cena should be pushed immediately IMO. I also think that heels can naturally be more creative than faces. This is another reason why I'd like to see Cena turn heel again.
[/QUOTE]

Wrestling sites have reported that a SD wrestler would be traded to RAW in order to fight HHH at WMXX, they have also reported that Benoit would be that SD superstar to go to RAW. Benoit and Cena both have heat with Paul Heyman, so I'll admit that it would make sense for either of them to be the one to get traded. But with Benoit being the number one entrant in the Rumble and Paul Heyman saying that BENOIT would never get another shot at the title, it's pretty clear that Benoit is being built up as the guy to win the Rumble and win the title. Not only do I believe that Benoit is the one being prepped to win the Rumble and going to win the title at WMXX, but I also believe that Benoit is a better choice than Cena for this position. Benoit is obviously the better wrestler for one thing. Provided that both Benoit and HHH are healthy at WMXX, I think the two of them will put on a pretty damn good match. As far as being over, Benoit is already receiving a great push. I think that lately, WWE has been doing a good job of pushing certain guys and making them look good. Benoit's promo about how bad he wants the title, and how much he has sarificed in his quest for it is VERY good and is a great way to get fans behind him. And if you think that fans won't be interested in a HHH/Benoit match after Goldberg/Lesnar? Well I don't think this will be the case for a couple of reasons:
1) If the WWE does a good job of building the fued then fans will be interested in it. People mention how Rock/Hogan overshadowed Jericho/HHH at WM18, but look at the shitty buildup for that match. Plus HHH wasn't performing nearly as good as he has been the last couple of months. As long as the build up is good (and I think it will be, cuz WWE seems to be doing a good job with important angles lately) then fans will be interested in the match.
2) Quite simply, the match has the potential to be awesome. Fans (especially a hardcore Madison Square Garden crowd) will pretty much always be interested in a good match. We all know Benoit is an awesome worker, and with him being in the main event at the biggest show ever, Benoit will turn it up bigtime and try to put on the performance of his life. HHH is a good wrestler whenever he is injury free. Lately I think HHH has been doing good, and provided that he is in good shape at WMXX, he and Benoit are definately capable of putting on a 5star match.

Now you use Brock Lesnar as an example of someone getting a main event push right away. But Brock Lesnar is different from Cena and Orton for a couple of reasons:
1) The Look: Brock has a great look, he legitimately looks like he could kick anyone's ass in the WWE. Cena and Orton do not have this advantage. They both have a good look, but you wouldn't just see them and think that they could kick anyone's ass they meet. Lesnar is one badass looking mofo.
2) Lesnar is a better in ring worker than Cena and Orton. When Lesnar was thrust into main event matches, he didn't need to be carried in those matches. He contributed to those matches as much as Rock, UT, Angle, and others that he wrestled. Cena and Orton both are not good enough in the ring to carry themselves fully. Lesnar was capable of doing this very quickly.

You think that Rock/Sock vs Orton/Batista won't be very high profile, but I disagree. I have a feeling that if (or when IMO) this match happens, it will receive alot of attention and buildup towards it. Because obviously, Rock and Sock will be a big attraction. Plus, the WWE seems to be very high on Orton/Batista, so I bet they would want to advertise them as serious contenders. I think that if buildup is good enough, this will be a very important match for WMXX.

As for my source for HHH being gone to film movies in a few months? Straight from HHH's mouth on WWE.com a while back, plus it was mentioned at least a couple of times here on TPWW.net.

You ask about Goldberg, and why he would want to work for Wrestlemania if he is leaving? Well, I think the $300,000 payoff that main eventers get at Wrestlemania is pretty good incentive?

Ok, I have more to say, but am to tired to type it. This covers most of my opinions of your response to my posts.

Oh yeah, and for the record, whatever CyNick says is probably right. He always seems to be right.

Oh yeah, and CyNick, what is it about Orton, that you are saying you know? I'm curious...

The CyNick

01-23-2004, 10:01 AM

The thing I was talking about with Orton that "I know", is really just what Ive read from multiple sources, and that is that internally within the company the WWE has decided to give strong pushes to 4 guys; Orton, Cena, Benoit and Eddie Guerrero. So my point was that unlike past people who were pushed, this time (at least for now) they are behind immediate pushes for Benoit and Eddie and long term pushes for Orton and Cena. Hopefully they dont back down from that plan after two or three weeks. But, I believe the WWE realizes that they need to make new stars, and they've run out of quick fixes.

As for Benoit as a mid card champ. That is possible, but I have a feeling HHH will do the right thing (I know that sounds odd) and put over Benoit strong.

I think I mentioned this before, but I think HHH sees that he is over exposed and he knows he'll be off at some time in late Spring. I also think that politically it would be hard for him to squash Benoit like he did BT last year. I think there are far more people who see Benoit as one of the best in the business (perhaps of all time), so for Hunter to work everyone and look like a team player he'd have to put over Benoit and do it the right way. Thats why I can see HHH doinf two JOB for Benoit. One at Mania, maybe not by tapping to the Crossface, but say with a roll up or something. The win would still be clean, but Hunter could claim he made a mistake and wont make it again. Then they go into Edmonton in April, have the rematch and this time, with a rabid sold out crowd behind Benoit, Hunter taps to either the Crossface or the Sharpshooter.

Now, I know that sounds unlikely, but I think its possible. Couple reasons, first like I said Hunter needs at least some time off to make the WWE Film he's starring in. And if he doesn't make a new star to replace him during his absense he will look like an ass to the rest of the boys. By putting over Benoit stron, HHH can come back and demand the title, and nobody would really be able to kick up a fuss because HHH proved he was a "team player". Also, if anyone ever refused to JOB he could say "I put over Benoit at the biggest show of all time, so you shouldn't complain about being asked to be a team player". I think it will make Huntyer look like a hero (at least that will be the company rhetoric, and if anyone disagrees Brock Lesnar will beat them up). The final reason is that we all know HHH thinks he's the new Ric Flair, and I think he'd like to get over the 16 time World Champ mark, so I think with these periodic times off he can drop and then win the title every few months. In a couple of years he'll be able to beat Flair's mark.

Maybe its wishful thinking, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see if and how HHH puts over Benoit, because that will determine how the fans percieve Benoit as champion.

As for Edge, I dont think he was at the top level of popularity, but he's a WWE guy, and the WWE will push him because of his size, and lets face it, he does have talents in the ring. However, I dont think his promos were up to main event level. We'll see if he's make any improvements when he comes back after Mania.

Heyman

01-23-2004, 05:06 PM

Wrestling sites have reported that a SD wrestler would be traded to RAW in order to fight HHH at WMXX, they have also reported that Benoit would be that SD superstar to go to RAW. [/QUOTE]

Fair enough........but who gets traded to Smackdown in compensation? Smackdown is already lacking in star power. If a guy like Benoit (one of SD's top stars) gets moved to Raw, you can bet that SD will get compensated somehow.

Seems like this could turn into a 4-man deal.

-Benoit is rumored to be moving
-Kane or Taker could be moving
-Goldberg or Lesnar could be moving.

Looks to me like there will have to be a "4th" guy to make things even. Could this '4th guy' be John Cena? (so if Benoit and Cena go to Raw, then Kane and Goldberg go to Smackdown?).

Benoit and Cena both have heat with Paul Heyman, so I'll admit that it would make sense for either of them to be the one to get traded. But with Benoit being the number one entrant in the Rumble and Paul Heyman saying that BENOIT would never get another shot at the title, it's pretty clear that Benoit is being built up as the guy to win the Rumble and win the title. Not only do I believe that Benoit is the one being prepped to win the Rumble and going to win the title at WMXX, but I also believe that Benoit is a better choice than Cena for this position.

I hope you are right.

Benoit is obviously the better wrestler for one thing. Provided that both Benoit and HHH are healthy at WMXX, I think the two of them will put on a pretty damn good match. As far as being over, Benoit is already receiving a great push. I think that lately, WWE has been doing a good job of pushing certain guys and making them look good. Benoit's promo about how bad he wants the title, and how much he has sarificed in his quest for it is VERY good and is a great way to get fans behind him. And if you think that fans won't be interested in a HHH/Benoit match after Goldberg/Lesnar? Well I don't think this will be the case for a couple of reasons:
1) If the WWE does a good job of building the fued then fans will be interested in it. People mention how Rock/Hogan overshadowed Jericho/HHH at WM18, but look at the shitty buildup for that match. Plus HHH wasn't performing nearly as good as he has been the last couple of months. As long as the build up is good (and I think it will be, cuz WWE seems to be doing a good job with important angles lately) then fans will be interested in the match.
2) Quite simply, the match has the potential to be awesome. Fans (especially a hardcore Madison Square Garden crowd) will pretty much always be interested in a good match. We all know Benoit is an awesome worker, and with him being in the main event at the biggest show ever, Benoit will turn it up bigtime and try to put on the performance of his life. HHH is a good wrestler whenever he is injury free. Lately I think HHH has been doing good, and provided that he is in good shape at WMXX, he and Benoit are definately capable of putting on a 5star match.

Great explanation. As long as Smackdown gets properly compensated for the loss of Benoit, then I will have no problem in seeing that scenerio occur.

Now you use Brock Lesnar as an example of someone getting a main event push right away. But Brock Lesnar is different from Cena and Orton for a couple of reasons:
1) The Look: Brock has a great look, he legitimately looks like he could kick anyone's ass in the WWE. Cena and Orton do not have this advantage. They both have a good look, but you wouldn't just see them and think that they could kick anyone's ass they meet. Lesnar is one badass looking mofo.
2) Lesnar is a better in ring worker than Cena and Orton. When Lesnar was thrust into main event matches, he didn't need to be carried in those matches. He contributed to those matches as much as Rock, UT, Angle, and others that he wrestled. Cena and Orton both are not good enough in the ring to carry themselves fully. Lesnar was capable of doing this very quickly.

Good explanation again. :y:

You think that Rock/Sock vs Orton/Batista won't be very high profile, but I disagree. I have a feeling that if (or when IMO) this match happens, it will receive alot of attention and buildup towards it. Because obviously, Rock and Sock will be a big attraction. Plus, the WWE seems to be very high on Orton/Batista, so I bet they would want to advertise them as serious contenders. I think that if buildup is good enough, this will be a very important match for WMXX.

I liked CyNick's idea about Foley and Orton being the main focal point (where Batista then 'steps up' and tries to protect Orton, and The Rock then intervenes himself to even out the odds).

You ask about Goldberg, and why he would want to work for Wrestlemania if he is leaving? Well, I think the $300,000 payoff that main eventers get at Wrestlemania is pretty good incentive?

No - you misread my question. What I asked was - Why would the WWE need Goldberg (i.e. why would the WWE shell out $300,000 to Goldberg) if he was going to be used in an 'insignficant' role......or play second fiddle?

Anyways - Good response on your part.

My only legit concerns about Benoit going to Raw (to challenge Triple H) are....

1) Will Benoit be 'over' enough as champ? Benoit is one of my favorite guys, but it's no secret that guys like RVD, Jericho, and Cena get bigger face pops. Even if Benoit is built up perfectly, will he be widely accepted as a champion? (who can draw for the company).

2)Will Smackdown be properly compensated for the loss of Benoit? Smackdown is already lacking in star power. Benoit is one of Smackdown's top guys. Can they afford another defection? If Goldberg comes to Smackdown to feud with Lesnar (but then leaves after Wrestlemania), then Benoit and/or Taker defecting to Raw will look REAL bad for SD (because the "compensation" in the form of Bill Goldberg will no longer be there).

3)Smackdown is more of a 'wrestling' show, whereas Raw is a more sports-entertainment oriented show. Will Benoit be 'out of place' on Raw?....kind of like Lance Storm?

4)Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit are real life friends. How will they feel about being separated.

5)Technically speaking, wouldn't Benoit vs. Lesnar be a much better match than Benoit/Triple H?

6)Instead of having a "SD" star defect to Raw, why not just push Rob Van Dam? What if RVD was 'built up' over the next two months and was made to go over Triple H? Wouldn't the "Hardcore MSG crowd" love that scenerio just as much?

Benoit is a far better wrestler than RVD, but there's no question as to who is more popular.

Why not push a guy who would be far more likely to DRAW for the company?

Heyman

01-23-2004, 06:33 PM

We'll try this again. :)

Edge vs. Matt Hardy:

Edge gets traded to Raw due to Kane's departure to Smackdown (in pursuit of the Undertaker). Edge gets into it a bit with Christian (plants the seeds for a future feud), but Matt Hardy intervenes himself. Christian is busy feuding with Jericho. Meanwhile, Christian and Matt have developed a slight friendship/alliance....which is how Matt and Edge begin their feud.

At Wrestlemania, Edge ends up going over to gain the victory.

WWE tag team titles: Hass/Benjamin vs. Bashams vs. New Age Outlaws

Meh - What the hell. I'm "predicting" that Billy Gunn's all-time favorite moment (to be shown on Smackdown in the up-coming weeks, was his match from WM-14 with Foley/Terry Funk. The camera will then zoom-out slightly, and it will show Road Dogg right beside Gunn. The New Age Outlaws will be back in full force.....and will win the titles back at Wrestlemania.

Bill Goldberg vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin

http://www.tpww.net/headlines/1074789815.html. :D. Austin still has "one last match in him" motherf</>uckers. Everyone has always wanted to see Austin and Goldberg go at it. Before Goldberg leaves the WWE for good, why not give the fans what they want?

Austin and Goldberg both go in as faces, but the crowd is clearly behind Austin. Austin delivers by hitting a few stunners and getting the win.

Women's Title: Lita vs. Jazz

Jazz retains the women's title by defeating Lita.

Rob Van Dam w/Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H w/Ric Flair

Between now and Mania, RVD steps it up. RVD goes on a torrid streak, which includes victories over Matt Hardy, etc. RVD also has a match with Shawn Michaels. HBK does a great job in putting over RVD, and allows RVD to go over. After the match, HBK becomes a 'mentor' of sorts to RVD.....and tells RVD that he has all the talent in the world to become World Champ.

RVD defeats Triple H to become the new World Champion.

Rikishi vs. Matt Morgan

Matt Morgan defeats Rikishi. He is officially one step closer to reaching immortality. :|

Chris Jericho w/Trish Stratus vs. Christian w/Molly

Christian defeats Jericho. Jericho and Trish are now an item. Christian and Molly are not an item, but Molly agrees to accompany Christian to the ring to keep an eye on Trish. Matt Hardy comes out and helps Christian defeat Jericho.

United States Title - fatal 4-way match: John Cena vs. Big Show vs. Matt Morgan vs. Hardcore Holly

Morgan gets eliminated first, followed by Hardcore Holly. Cena and Big Show go at it for 10 minutes or so. Cena finally gets the victory by hitting the F-U on the Big Show.

World tag team titles: Dudleys vs. Cade/Jindrak

Cade and Jindrak do the unthinkable and win in an upset fashion. New tag team champs. Jindrak and Cade.

Kane vs. Undertaker

Undertaker defeats Kane. Taker comes back at Royal Rumble and attacks Kane. Kane gets his knickers in a twist and heads to Smackdown. Raw gets compensated by having Edge defect there.

The Rock N' Sock Connection vs. Evolution (Orton and Batista)

Rock N' Sock get the win, as Foley uses "Mr. Socko" on Randy Orton

Kurt Angle vs. Eddie Guerrero:

Somewhere between now and Mania, Angle turns on Guerrero citing penis envy. Anyways - Angle defeats Guerrero at Mania.

Cruiserweight title: Rey Mysterio vs, Taijiri

Taijiri retains the title over Rey Mysterio.

WWE title: Brock Lesnar vs. Chris Benoit

Chris Benoit wins the Royal Rumble, despite being the very first entrant. He gets built up big time, and begins his inevitable feud with Lesnar. It culminates at Wrestlemania, and Benoit finally wins "the big one". Benoit wins with the Sharpshooter.

Heyman

01-24-2004, 12:02 AM

The CyNick

01-24-2004, 11:25 AM

Goldberg vs. Austin

-As I mentioned earlier, perhaps Goldberg/Austin would be a great scenerio.

1) The fans get their "dream" match

2) Austin still has 'one good match left in him'

3) The match should be gold from a Buyrates standpoint (it's never been done before)

4) With Goldberg and Austin going up against one another, it effectively cancels them out with one another. This then allows other wrestlers such as Benoit to go after the WWE title against Brock Lesnar (and may be someone like RVD to go after Triple H for the World title). Basically - the world title scene becomes freed up.

I wouldn't mind seeing Goldberg-Austin, I think along with Austin-Hogan, those are the two bigggest money matches they have left.

However you have to understand how serious Austin's condition is. Yes he could work a match or two, and I think he'd like to work Goldberg (he's said as much himself), but the fact is Goldberg is perhaps the worst opponent for Austin's health. I mean forget about what happened with Bret, just look at Goldberg's offence. A lot of his moves are high impact and require hard landings. If you're Austin is it worth one more match if you may wind up in a wheelchair when its done? The reason Austin-McMahon is a better fit is because Austin could work that match literally without taking any bumps. McMahon could hit him with some weapons for a bit of offence, but basically he could be there to take a beating and sell a stunner. That way the fans get one more Austin match, and Austin gets to protect his body.

Heyman

01-24-2004, 04:36 PM

I wouldn't mind seeing Goldberg-Austin, I think along with Austin-Hogan, those are the two bigggest money matches they have left.

However you have to understand how serious Austin's condition is. Yes he could work a match or two, and I think he'd like to work Goldberg (he's said as much himself), but the fact is Goldberg is perhaps the worst opponent for Austin's health. I mean forget about what happened with Bret, just look at Goldberg's offence. A lot of his moves are high impact and require hard landings. If you're Austin is it worth one more match if you may wind up in a wheelchair when its done? The reason Austin-McMahon is a better fit is because Austin could work that match literally without taking any bumps. McMahon could hit him with some weapons for a bit of offence, but basically he could be there to take a beating and sell a stunner. That way the fans get one more Austin match, and Austin gets to protect his body.

Good point, but would the spear really be that devasting for Austin's neck?

The Jackhammer could really hurt Austin, but maybe they can have it as such that Goldberg sets Austin up for the Jackhammer, but Austin gets out of it (and then doesn't have to take the 'bump' from the Jackhammer).

I hate the idea of Austin/Vince......at all levels. The outcome for that match would be way too predictable. I'd rather see Austin/Vince on Raw where they build up that much a few weeks in advance.

The CyNick

01-25-2004, 04:49 PM

Good point, but would the spear really be that devasting for Austin's neck?

The Jackhammer could really hurt Austin, but maybe they can have it as such that Goldberg sets Austin up for the Jackhammer, but Austin gets out of it (and then doesn't have to take the 'bump' from the Jackhammer).

I hate the idea of Austin/Vince......at all levels. The outcome for that match would be way too predictable. I'd rather see Austin/Vince on Raw where they build up that much a few weeks in advance.

Its not just the Spear/Jackhammer, its a lot of Goldberg's secondary moves, like the Gorilla Press into a slam, and his general stiffness in the ring. Either he would work syiff and potentially cripple Austin, or he works light, and the match ends up looking weak.

Plus, you say Austin-Vince is predicatable, well I would say Austin-Goldberg is even more predicatble. I mean do you really think Austin would let the guy WCW made a star beat the guy the WWE made into a star in their home arena? I would bet more money that Vince's ego would be so out of control that he would book himself over Austin, before he would book Goldberg over Austin.

Its not just about which fued/match would be better, its about what Austin can actually do given his health conditions. If this was a video game I would book Austin-Goldberg, but its not, so the smart money is to do Austin-Vince.

Heyman

01-25-2004, 05:25 PM

Credit: Rajahwwf.com

The latest edition of RAW Magazine speculates about a possible Hulk Hogan vs Steve Austin match at WrestleMania XX. The idea is that Austin's actions on RAW will drive Bischoff crazy and will force him to bring back one of his WCW friends and WWF legend to force Austin out of in-ring retirement as two of the biggest icons in wrestling lock horns at WM XX.

Watchya think?

The CyNick

01-25-2004, 08:05 PM

Credit: Rajahwwf.com

Watchya think?

It makes sense to have that match, the two biggest stars of all time in the ring.

In terms of Austin's health, a Hogan match shouldn't be too much of a risk, well except the big boot, thats a devastating move.....

Two problems though:

#1 who lays down? Hogan might be willing, but I wouldn't bet on it, and I know there's no way Austin would do that match if he's going to lose

#2 Austin doesn't want to business with Hogan. Now, perhaps he can have him mind changed if the prospect of a huge buyrate with Hogan (and his subsequent payoff) would be enough to convince him to work Hogan.

The match would probably suck, but from a historic standpoint, it should happen. Will it? I wouldn't bet on it, but stranger things have happened.