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Fignuts
06-10-2005, 09:59 AM
Batista and Orton got the belt too soon. And Christian should not get it for a while.

There. I said it.

I realize I'm going to be up against almost everyone here when I say that,(especially in Batista and Christian's case) but thats my opinion. Now I like Christian, Orton, and to some degree, Batista, as much as the next guy. But that doesn't mean I want them in the world title picture just yet. There is a "flavor of the week" mentality going around TPWW as of late. (i.e. Christian, Batista, Shelton) When a wrestler shows an inkling of talent, many of you state that Triple H is holding him back and that he should get the world title.

Orton and Batista's title reigns just havn't sat well with me. In Orton's case, They should have went with the original plan of him winning the belt at WM21. It would have made the Orton/HHH match much more exciting and dramatic, and perhaps someone would have been able to teach Orton how to cut a decent face promo before he won the belt. As for Batista...

The one difference between Batista and Goldberg is their egos. Thats it. They both have "the look," and they both have intensity, but they are also lacking in the ring and on the mic. A world champion can get away with being bad at one of these traits if he greatly excels in the other. But Batista, sadly, does not. I understand that Batista was really hot, and his turn is won of the better angles in a while. But good pops is no reason to give a guy the belt. Look at Austin. His climb to the title was one of the most enjoyable and entertaining ever. But if I used the common mentality around here lately, he would have gotten the belt well before his popularity peaked, and It would have had a very negative effect on Austin's career.

Long climbs to the title, where a superstar has to scratch and claw his way to the belt, is what turns a mid-carder into a permanant main eventer. Here's hoping they realize this before they plan to put the belt on Christian.

Lamuella
06-10-2005, 10:05 AM
the problem is that WWE puts belts on 2 kinds of people:

1) newcomers. Usually people on their first title reign.
2) Triple H

Fignuts
06-10-2005, 10:08 AM
"Newcomers"

You see the problem with that is that it is plural. If they are going to put the belt on a newcomer, they should spend their time on one, as opposed to one every two months.

SuperSlim
06-10-2005, 10:12 AM
hey I agree with Orton. When he first won it off of Chris Benoit I wasn't happy.

1. I enjoyed Benoit finally being a world champion.
2. Orton won it way way too early.

I always saw Orotn as not being ready for that title and sure enough he wasn't.

Batista on the other hand may have shown points of greatness but still I didn't think he was ready yet. He has the look of course. He has the intensity. But he just lacks that special something.

And Christian, as much as it would be really cool if he did become world champ... just not yet. He's been booked as nothing more than a midcarder to upper midcarder. And basically the guy that is below Edge. Once they allow him to surpass Edge's shadow and do some stuff and actually get some wins then yeah he can better be viewed as true championship material.

Fignuts
06-10-2005, 10:15 AM
Exactly. Christian is too good to be rushed into the title. His climb should be memorable.

Anybody Thrilla
06-10-2005, 10:15 AM
Christian has been in the WWE for what, 8 years now? He's won every championship besides the big one. How fucking long do you have to scratch and claw?

Lamuella
06-10-2005, 10:17 AM
what they need is a larger main event picture in general.

a good federation needs, at any time, 4 main event level faces and 4 main event level heels. by main event level I mean someone who could win the world title without it looking stupid.

XL
06-10-2005, 10:18 AM
I agree totally! and said something along these lines myself on here!

I really don't see where they're gonna go with Batista afte HHH, his whole turn worked because we wanted to see HHH get toppled, now he has, what next?

Everything you said about Orton was true! Shot their load too early!

Xtian should have a slow build. Perhaps have an attitude where he believes he can take the title at any point and thus is in no rush! He doesn't feel he has to strive for it and slowly and enjoyably moves towards it!

Anybody Thrilla
06-10-2005, 10:19 AM
FACE - Cena, Batista, Michaels (?), Jericho (?)

HEEL - Triple H, Edge....


OK, I see what you're saying.

Fignuts
06-10-2005, 10:19 AM
Christian has been in the WWE for what, 8 years now? He's won every championship besides the big one. How fucking long do you have to scratch and claw?

But as long as he's been there, he's never been a real threat to the Champion. And you won't make him a believable threat (to the casual fans at least) in a span of a few months. I have to go to work, but I will elaborate on this tomorrow. Expect a bump.

Anybody Thrilla
06-10-2005, 10:20 AM
Xtian should have a slow build. Perhaps have an attitude where he believes he can take the title at any point and thus is in no rush! He doesn't feel he has to strive for it and slowly and enjoyably moves towards it!

Isn't that kinda Edge's gimmick right now?

Gouda
06-10-2005, 10:28 AM
Christian needs to first have some big time feuds, on the level of his feud with JEricho, and get some big wins.

As it is, no one will take him seriously as a World Champ.

As for Batista, I definatley see him as a flavour of the month. People are going to get tired of him quick. Just watch.

If they didn't shoot the gun on Orton so early and did the slow buildup to the turn like they did with Batista then I think Orton could have been successful and be more than just the flavour of the month. I mean, when he won the world title... he just lost the IC title, and then goes onto face Bentoit in a match with practically no build up.

Londoner
06-10-2005, 10:49 AM
Isn't that kinda Edge's gimmick right now?


Yeah, unfortunately...

Shaggy
06-10-2005, 11:24 AM
I was a huge fan of Orton but when I look at it now after his whole Face fun they shouldnt of made him a champ and turn him face. He was alot better off as a heel and he might of been a better champ if they would of kept him heel. The only problem is that you cant be a champ and be heel as long as Triple H is around right now.

As for Christian. I dont think they should give him the title just yet. Perhaps have him main event in some non title like matches first. Show someother people that he can run because the only problem with being a Tweener...which he is...is that you have half the people going for you and the other half against you. It doesnt really make for a good reaction unless you plan on turning him face which would totally kill him.

Batista I still dont feel should be champ. He just doesnt seem like a champ and everytime I see him on tv as the champ I feel a little pissed because he just shouldnt be there. He is more IC material.

Corkscrewed
06-10-2005, 11:43 AM
I'd disagree with Batista's push. I don't feel like writing an essay though, so I'll just say that Undertaker basically got the title after a year in the company. Batista's been here in three, and his main even push took a good half year, so I don't think they really rushed him.

If there's any problem, it's what to do with him now that the chase is over.

Besides, you know, have him face HHH 493 times.

SammyG
06-10-2005, 12:02 PM
Bad news for John Cena's "You Can't See Me" album. It dropped from 47 to 69 on the Billboard 200, down from 23 to 29 on the hip-hop album chart, and dropped clear off the Internet Albums chart.

Shaggy
06-10-2005, 12:21 PM
Bad news for John Cena's "You Can't See Me" album. It dropped from 47 to 69 on the Billboard 200, down from 23 to 29 on the hip-hop album chart, and dropped clear off the Internet Albums chart.

Beause it sucks..... :shifty:

Unlike Macho Mans.....wait....

Disturbed316
06-10-2005, 12:25 PM
I think the only reason Orton was given the title was to get rid of Brock Lesnar being the youngest guy to win it. We all know of the problems that Lesnar caused before and after he left, so why not get rid of the one accolade he still held in the WWE?

Thats my thoughts anyway :-\

Londoner
06-10-2005, 12:26 PM
Bad news for John Cena's "You Can't See Me" album. It dropped from 47 to 69 on the Billboard 200, down from 23 to 29 on the hip-hop album chart, and dropped clear off the Internet Albums chart.


Shocking. :shifty:

Londoner
06-10-2005, 12:27 PM
I think the only reason Orton was given the title was to get rid of Brock Lesnar being the youngest guy to win it. We all know of the problems that Lesnar caused before and after he left, so why not get rid of the one accolade he still held in the WWE?

Thats my thoughts anyway :-\


That's exactly what i think.

Kane Knight
06-10-2005, 12:40 PM
Batista's push was fine. It's what they did with him when he got the belt that was the problem. I think they need more builds like that, because it was effing awesome.

Letting him run so much with the mic was the major downfall.

Cena, I blame it on his face turn primarily, but they pushed him too fast. I agree. In fact, I made that argument before everyone hopped off the bandwagon, and got a ton of Ortonites spazzing on me.

James Steele
06-10-2005, 01:17 PM
I've let my dislike of Orton known since my third thread I posted in TPWW.

See ------> http://tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9363

Oh and just to brag, Vince knows who to listen to:

See ------> http://tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8880

Kane Knight
06-10-2005, 01:56 PM
I like Orton. I dislike pussy babyface Orton, and I hate anyone being shoved down our throats.

Shadow
06-10-2005, 04:21 PM
Here's how they could've done Orton.

Have him win the title when he did. check....

Have him go over, cleanly, several big name stars such as Jericho, HBK, Benoit again, etc.

Have HHH in the background constantly, smiling saying what a good champ you are, stuff like that.

When he's alone....gnaw on his mother fucking liver like there was no tommarrow! I'm talking he's badmouthing Orton left and right, up down, six ways to sunday, the works.

At some point...HHH costs Orton the title. He kicks him out of Evolution, turning him face instantly I might add, and then goes on to win the title at the next ppv.

Orton then get's his shot at the title at 21, thus we get HHH/Orton with a great build.

Then have the Captian come in, steal the show, get the world title and we'll all be roses.

Kane Knight
06-10-2005, 04:54 PM
Orton should have been an Austin style face, or at least a Kane face (I mean in terms of being a bad guy who's the de facto face in a feud, not his constant jobbing). Once they turned him face, it was pretty much over. He was a shitty babyface. They also turned him pretty much over the course of two nights. Not cool.

Deceit
06-10-2005, 06:02 PM
Orton was definitely a pre-ejaculation.

I think Christian's "road to the belt" can be great if written properly. Though, WWE logic seems to prevent "written" and "properly" to coexsist in the same sentence.

Loose Cannon
06-10-2005, 06:23 PM
The problem here is that Christian has been ready for like 3 years. All he needed was a "big" push and has NEVER gotten one. There are no tricks to succeding once you got the people in the palm of your hands. It's the bookers that decide your fate then. If your not pushed, how are you suppossed to be taken seriously as champion? Simple as that. He deserves the Title more then anybody IMO.

McLegend
06-10-2005, 07:21 PM
Orton should have been an Austin style face
Thats what they tried and it just never caught on :(

Loose Cannon
06-10-2005, 07:23 PM
they didn't really. They tried it the first night when he dropped the sledge on Bischoff. Then later he ran away from Evolution and he kept doing it. That was enough to kill him

McLegend
06-10-2005, 07:34 PM
they didn't really. They tried it the first night when he dropped the sledge on Bischoff. Then later he ran away from Evolution and he kept doing it. That was enough to kill him
Remember when he was banned from RAW, but some how ended up at RAW for the end just in time to RKO everyone?

That seemed quite a lot like Austin to me.

Loose Cannon
06-10-2005, 07:35 PM
yea that too. But like I said, he just ran from Evolution all the time. The exact opposite of what Austin did with the Harts

Savio
06-10-2005, 07:38 PM
He should been like pillman and threaten to shoot HHH.

Kane Knight
06-10-2005, 07:53 PM
they didn't really. They tried it the first night when he dropped the sledge on Bischoff. Then later he ran away from Evolution and he kept doing it. That was enough to kill him
Yeah, Tried implies actually giving it a chance.

YOUR Hero
06-10-2005, 08:16 PM
Fignuts, your opening post would have been completely logical if it wasn't for the fact Christian isn't a newcomer, he's been around a very long time already. Is he ready for a title push, I say yes.

Mr. Nerfect
06-11-2005, 02:18 AM
Yeah, as a fan of wrestling the one thing I can say I dislike more than anything else is the "stars of the future" being given the World Championship. That's what the IC and US Titles are for.

Personally what I would have done with Randy Orton is have him hand the World Heavyweight Championship back to Triple H when Hunter asked him to. It makes Randy Orton look good enough to be a World Champion (he beat the guy Triple H couldn't for months), it gets the title back on Triple H and it allows a longer build to Triple H vs. Randy Orton.

Either that or have Evolution side with Randy Orton and have Ric Flair and Batista remind us he is the now since he is World Heavyweight Champion, and beat the guy that Triple H couldn't beat. Have Evolution "injure" Triple H, so a Triple H return at the Royal Rumble might actually be interesting, and have Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit in a rematch headline Unforgiven. Then at Taboo Tuesday you can have the same thing happen with Chris Benoit, Edge & Shawn Michaels.

I personally agree with the decision to put the World Heavyweight Championship on Batista, but I really think he needs to defend th ebelt against someone other than Triple H. I think Batista either needs to lose the belt and begin chasing Cena for the WWE Championship, or have Batista turn semi-heel as World Heavyweight Champion and feud with Cena.

Christian I can stand a long build to, but I think they should make him seem like a threat now. Have him pin Cena in next week's tag team match, and maybe even have him steal a non-title victory over Cena (I still think he should have beaten Batista in that non-title match they had a few weeks ago). I'm not as psyched for John Cena vs. Christian right now as I should be, so let's hope that changes.

The CyNick
06-11-2005, 04:26 AM
I think you guys are all forgetting that Orton was the IC champs for like 8 months.

This is a different era of wrestling, withso much TV,a nd so many PPVs, you cant wait 4 or 5 years to push a guy. History has shown that the longer a guy is in a company without getting that big push, the less successful he will be if he does reach the top (ie Benoit and JBL as recent examples).

Ive said this before, but if you look back to Hogan, he did have a run in the WWE prior to his title run, but he was gone for a while. When he came back, basically as a new guy, they just gave him the title right away.

Even a guy like Austin, who did recieve a steady build to the top, but he was only in the company for a year before they started to push him as the top guy, and slightly over 2 years until he got the belt.

As I mentioned before, you have to work even faster now, because there is more product, and you dont want guys to hit a certain level and then stay there for a long time. What happens is that people will no longer accept you as a potential main eventer and you'll be mid card for life. There are some exceptions (Eddie's probably the best one), but they are not very common.

Orton's failure as champ was simply how they booked him. I think if they would have flipped it, and have Orton stay heel, while HUnter goes face, Orton would have made a great heel champ. But as I said while it was going down, they tried to cram Orton down our throats as a babyface, and of course it didn't work. But putting the title on him, was not part of the problem.

Brock was pushed hard, and he did reasonable well with it, again, they made a lot of mistakes booking him, and like Orton turned him too quickly, but his initial title run was good. He later left, but that has nothing to do with this topic.

Kane Knight
06-11-2005, 05:41 AM
...Which leads to problems of its own....

BigDaddyCool
06-11-2005, 07:18 AM
What the hell are you talking about, Christian has been the shit for a while. He needs to get the belt soon.

Marcyo
06-12-2005, 08:26 PM
What the hell are you talking about, Christian has been the shit for a while. He needs to get the belt soon.

Corkscrewed
06-12-2005, 09:13 PM
You do realize he'd just feud with HHH for four months then go back to tagging with Tomko against Regal and Tajiri, right?































:'(

Shadow
06-12-2005, 09:30 PM
You do realize he'd just feud with HHH for four months then go back to tagging with Tomko against Regal and Tajiri, right?
:'(

Made yourself cry didn't you?