Demers: I'm illiterate

[VonErich Lives]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/hockey/nhl/11/03/demers/index.html?cnn=yes

Ex-NHL coach discloses inability to read and write

MONTREAL (AP) -- Jacques Demers, who coached the Montreal Canadiens to the Stanley Cup in 1993 and was later a general manager in the NHL, admits in a newly released biography that he is illiterate.

"I could read a little bit but I can't write very well," Demers said at a party for the book's launch. "I took to protecting myself. You put a wall around yourself. And when I was given the possibility of talking, I could speak well and I think that really saved me."

In the book Jacques Demers: En Toutes Lettres, which roughly translates to All Spelled Out, Demers said his inability to read and write was the result of an abusive and impoverished childhood.

"All I wanted from my father was to treat me with love," Demers said. "Not to beat me up when I did something wrong. Not to beat up my mom. It really hurt me because he took away my childhood.

"The other thing I wanted to say was that if I could not write or read, it was because I had so much of a problem with anxiety because of the things going on in the family. I couldn't go to sleep at night. I'd go to school and I couldn't learn anything."

The book, which was released Wednesday, was written by Canadian journalist Mario Leclerc.

Demers coached the Quebec Nordiques, St. Louis Blues, Detroit Red Wings, Montreal and the Tampa Bay Lightning, where he was also general manager in the late 1990s.

He was able to hide his illiteracy from all but a few people by asking secretaries and media relations people to write letters for him, claiming his English wasn't good enough.

Even his wife Debbie didn't know until he told her after he put off writing checks to cover household bills for several days.

When he was a general manager, he brought in Cliff Fletcher and Jay Feaster as assistants to handle contracts he couldn't read.

"I never really was a GM," he said. "I hired Cliff Fletcher and Jay Feaster because I knew I couldn't do that."

Since leaving the NHL coaching ranks, Demers has worked as a hockey analyst at the French-language RDS network for the last four years.

For now, he is happy that he has gone public with his illiteracy.

"I have no problem saying what I wanted to say. That's what I needed," he said. "I've been carrying this all my life. I succeeded, and I'm telling people `you're capable of doing something in your life even if you have some big handicaps."'

(Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

[The Gooch]

Took a lot guts to come out with that. Jacques is a great coach, hopefully his book will do well and he will get back behind the bench where he belongs.

[Loose Cannon]

lol, kid can't even read.

T T T T Today junior. hahaha

[VonErich Lives]

Took a lot guts to come out with that. Jacques is a great coach, hopefully his book will do well and he will get back behind the bench where he belongs.

Think after this he will ever get a bench job? after saying when he was a GM he let others do it, because he couldn't read?

No, he wont get another hockey job, but he'll make plenty off his book.

I'm not sure it took guts, took guts would be at a press confrence while still head coach or GM.

Saying it in a book that you're selling for profit... dunno, just can't give him that much credit.

[Nervous Ferret]

How did he write a biography if he can't read or write?

[Nervous Ferret]

The book, which was released Wednesday, was written by Canadian journalist Mario Leclerc.
oh

[YOUR Hero]

Think after this he will ever get a bench job? after saying when he was a GM he let others do it, because he couldn't read?

No, he wont get another hockey job, but he'll make plenty off his book.

I'm not sure it took guts, took guts would be at a press confrence while still head coach or GM.

Saying it in a book that you're selling for profit... dunno, just can't give him that much credit.

He was a sucessful coach. As a GM, he still made the decisions and what not. If he made himself available to coach, he would be considered a top candidate anywhere.

[VonErich Lives]

He was a sucessful coach. As a GM, he still made the decisions and what not. If he made himself available to coach, he would be considered a top candidate anywhere.


I doubt he'd get a job, he deceived his teams/owners... especially the GM part.


When he was a general manager, he brought in Cliff Fletcher and Jay Feaster as assistants to handle contracts he couldn't read.

"I never really was a GM," he said. "I hired Cliff Fletcher and Jay Feaster because I knew I couldn't do that."


He'll stay on TV and enjoy his book sales, you'll never see him behined the bench again.

[Kapoutman]

He's not gonna make a dime off the book. The profits are going to "Le Portage", a Montreal center for women victim of violence.

So yeah, it took a lot of gut. He didn't deceive anybody. He was hired because he had a great mind for hockey. They asked him to coach teams to the top, and he did.

[VonErich Lives]

He's not gonna make a dime off the book. The profits are going to "Le Portage", a Montreal center for women victim of violence.

So yeah, it took a lot of gut. He didn't deceive anybody. He was hired because he had a great mind for hockey. They asked him to coach teams to the top, and he did.

Wasn't aware he's gettong ZERO from this book. That does change it.

However, he was a GM who couldn't read, that will leave a bad taste with owners.

[samichna]

LOL damn, can't even read his own book. :(

[Zen v.W.o.]

It doesnt matter, he's happy doing his RDS gig. He doesnt need to go searching for another job, he's made his dough. Good on him for that, and good on him for overcoming alot of the BS he had to go through in his life.

[YOUR Hero]

Decieved them to a Stanley Cup, deceived them to two Jack Adams awards. Yeah VEL, he was a terrible person.

[The Icon of Elisim]

If you found out that Belichek and the Pats GM were illiterate would you say that they should be fired?

[VonErich Lives]

If you found out that Belichek and the Pats GM were illiterate would you say that they should be fired?

Pioloi? Yeah, cause he's the one reading/signing the contracts and I'd worry something would get past him.

[VonErich Lives]

Decieved them to a Stanley Cup, deceived them to two Jack Adams awards. Yeah VEL, he was a terrible person.

Wow, still see you got the talent of making things up people never said (while I have you're attention for a moment, before the next shiney object passes by, check out the old MLB thread, some unanswered questions directed your way).

Anyway, end result isn't the issue. The issue was he never should have taken the GM job if he couldn't read, plain and simple.

[Kapoutman]

Why should he have refused the job? They hired him because he had a great mind for hockey. Other GMs admitted that the job mainly requires making decisions regarding the team. Lawyers are always present during contract negociations, so he doesn't have to handle that, and the secretary types everything that is needed to. There was no reason for him to refuse the job.

[YOUR Hero]

VEL doesn't get it... Sadly.

[VonErich Lives]

Why should he have refused the job? They hired him because he had a great mind for hockey. Other GMs admitted that the job mainly requires making decisions regarding the team. Lawyers are always present during contract negociations, so he doesn't have to handle that, and the secretary types everything that is needed to. There was no reason for him to refuse the job.

Because he hid a defficancy from his boss. Something like "I can't read" should have been disclosed, plain and simple.

VEL doesn't get it... Sadly.

No, saldy Hero you don't get it. You're strickly looking at W-L, not the big picture of not informing your boss/owner of a diffiencency that can effect your job. If had those other 2 guys in place to "do the job" then he shouldn't have been there, he was a waste of payroll if nothing else.

[YOUR Hero]

How dare I use his win-loss record as a measure of his success or not... How terrible of me.

[VonErich Lives]

How dare I use his win-loss record as a measure of his success or not... How terrible of me.

No, "how dare" you make things up I never said.

"how terrible" of you, not to understand being a GM is not just about W/L, it's about money, contracts, the list goes on.

He lied to his employer, plain and simple.

Maybe you should ask your boss about it, how he would feel having an employee who lied to him and delegated out parts of his job because he was unable to preform them.

[Zelda]

His "coming-out" really helped organization that try to fight analphabetism. I don't know if you were aware, but it's 20% of the population that is either illiterate or has severe reading/writing problems. They are not all on welfare too. Lots of them successfully work and hide their handicap. It is a big problem which is more present than you think, and it's not that kind of attitude that will change things. I don't know anybody stupid enough to go see their boss and say "I'm illiterate" when they know they're gonna lose their job.

[VonErich Lives]

His "coming-out" really helped organization that try to fight analphabetism. I don't know if you were aware, but it's 20% of the population that is either illiterate or has severe reading/writing problems. They are not all on welfare too. Lots of them successfully work and hide their handicap. It is a big problem which is more present than you think, and it's not that kind of attitude that will change things. I don't know anybody stupid enough to go see their boss and say "I'm illiterate" when they know they're gonna lose their job.

That's all fine, but your missing my original comment.

Which was, he will never get another "hockey job" either behined the bench or in the front office.

So, your point being if they told their boss they can't read/write they'd loose their job, goes along with what I was saying.

[Zelda]

That's all fine, but your missing my original comment.

Which was, he will never get another "hockey job" either behined the bench or in the front office.

So, your point being if they told their boss they can't read/write they'd loose their job, goes along with what I was saying.


We saw that he did a good job despite his problem, and he will keep his job at RDS. If people who don't know how to read lose their job despite being competent, it's because of prejudice in the minds of people, not because they are incompetent.

[RP]

I advise that everyone just give it up when it comes to arguing with VEL, because in his mind, he already won the arguement before the topic was even posted.

[VonErich Lives]

I advise that everyone just give it up when it comes to arguing with VEL, because in his mind, he already won the arguement before the topic was even posted.

LMFAO again... are you off your meds or something?

[VonErich Lives]

We saw that he did a good job despite his problem, and he will keep his job at RDS. If people who don't know how to read lose their job despite being competent, it's because of prejudice in the minds of people, not because they are incompetent.

1) What I said was he wouldn't get another job after this, because he mislead his previous employers, and weather you find what he did ok or not, it's not something another employer would most likely be willing to accept.

2) "competent" in doing their job, well, that's debateable. Here's an example, he's a GM, he can't read the contract, he hires someone and trust them to read it, they lie, he as GM then signs a contract with a player for 3yrs 8million instead of 1yr 2million.

Yes, I understand how very unlikely it is that would happen, but it's a chance. If the job you has requires you to be able to read, and you can't read, you shouldn't have that job. You might be able to fake your way, guess and get by, but if the job requires you to be able to read and you can't, then you can't fill the position.

Now, let's say your job is to dig a hole, your boss gives you the shovel, points at the spot and just says "dig till I tell you to stop" and you do your job fine and one day your boss hand you a newspaper and you can't read it and he fires you. Then yes, I agree, reading was not required for the job and hence being fired for not being able to read, would be like fireing an accountant because they can't fly a plane.

[Zelda]

I advise that everyone just give it up when it comes to arguing with VEL, because in his mind, he already won the arguement before the topic was even posted.


:love:

[YOUR Hero]

weather, VEL?

I think you better let your boss know you don't know the proper 'whether' to use.

[The Icon of Elisim]

GMs don't write contracts, lawyers do.

[RP]

weather, VEL?

I think you better let your boss know you don't know the proper 'whether' to use.

:lol:

I love the VEL impression.

[VonErich Lives]

weather, VEL?

I think you better let your boss know you don't know the proper 'whether' to use.

*yawn* so rather then respond to the question I asked you pick on a type-o.

Spelling, isn't a requirement of my job and when I do need it I use a spell checker, which I'm sure you see as the same thing as having someone else handles the deals as a GM.

He even said, he wasn't a GM, he couldn't do it.

Anyway, when you're done picking out type-o's, you still have a question to ask your boss.


Maybe you should ask your boss about it, how he would feel having an employee who lied to him and delegated out parts of his job because he was unable to preform them.

Let me know what he says.

[VonErich Lives]

:lol:

I love the VEL impression.

yeah, we all know, I'm a horrible person and a horrible poster because I don't agree with you and think you're right all the time.

Anyway, I'm bored so hopefully you'll have another hissy fit like you did in the NFL thread, that was funny.

[RP]

yeah, we all know, I'm a horrible person and a horrible poster because I don't agree with you and think you're right all the time.

Anyway, I'm bored so hopefully you'll have another hissy fit like you did in the NFL thread, that was funny.


Yah because we all know thats what i said right? Seriously stfu.

[The Miz]

*yawn* so rather then respond to the question I asked you pick on a type-o.
One again VEL you don't understand stats. I like how you just took the top 3 guys in fielding % as your candidates though. Watch the games sometime.
Yes, miz "One again"...
*scratches head*

[YOUR Hero]

VEL, if this thread has taught us anything. It's that you would be pissed if an employee of yours, who does a great job and in fact wins awards by his peers because he's so good, came out of the 'proverbial closet' to let people know he has a handicap that you would condemn him instead of praising him for being able to do such a great job while having obstacles in his way.

I thank you for that insight,btw.

[VonErich Lives]

VEL, if this thread has taught us anything. It's that you would be pissed if an employee of yours, who does a great job and in fact wins awards by his peers because he's so good, came out of the 'proverbial closet' to let people know he has a handicap that you would condemn him instead of praising him for being able to do such a great job while having obstacles in his way.

I thank you for that insight,btw.

Yes, and what this shows is you would be ok with an employee of yours, lieing to you, wasting payroll on hiring others to do the job he is being paid to do and is not capable of doing, while leaving himself and his company at risk.

I thank you for that insight,btw.

[YOUR Hero]

Do you think other NHL or other sports GM do not have assistants?

A RED SOX fan speaking about wasted payroll, that's rich :lol:

[VonErich Lives]

Do you think other NHL or other sports GM do not have assistants?



Key word there "Assistants".

He didn't have "assistants" he hired people to do his job because he couldn't do it and he knew it and he even admits this.

[Adder]

They were still his assistants, VEL. The assisted him.

I know your argument will be they didn't assist him, they did the work. That isn't really here nor there though now is it. He makes the final decisions, therefore they were the assistance. If all he does is sign his name to a piece of paper, then he is still the one giving final approval. It's not like he's a retard, he's a great hockey mind that simply can't read. The lawyers and assistants do all the grunt work. Which is his bidding. He then approves it with a signature or a hand shake, the deal is approved.

[VonErich Lives]

They were still his assistants, VEL. The assisted him.

I know your argument will be they didn't assist him, they did the work. That isn't really here nor there though now is it. He makes the final decisions, therefore they were the assistance. If all he does is sign his name to a piece of paper, then he is still the one giving final approval. It's not like he's a retard, he's a great hockey mind that simply can't read. The lawyers and assistants do all the grunt work. Which is his bidding. He then approves it with a signature or a hand shake, the deal is approved.

This is true, however if he can't read he can't know what's on that contract.

When the offers came over from an agent he needed someone else to do it.

and yes, that is my point, they didn't "assist him" they did his job, and even he admits this.

I have nothing personal against the guy and I'm sure he's a great hockey mind, from a business stand point, I can't see someone handing him another GM job, knowing that he lied and wasted money etc...

I understand why he did it, don't get me wrong there. I'm not saying he didn't do "what was right for him" but he didn't do what was right for the team aka "the business".

[YOUR Hero]

If the team didn't want him to bring in other hockey people, they wouldn't of approved it. They afterall are the ones that have to pay for it. Regardless of why he brought them in, the team approved it.

[The Gooch]

Is his ability to write a contract more important than his ability to recognize and evaluate talent?

Secondly, it is unfair for any of us to question his integrity when we have never been put in that type of situation. I'm pretty sure most of us would have been deceptive if we were in a similar situation where outing oneself may result in the termination of our employment. We don't know whether he would have been fired from his GM position if he would have divulged his handicap so it is even unfair to speculate.

Lastly, nobody can take away his accomplishments on the ice. If he left RDS tomorrow I would guess there would be a few NHL teams knocking on his door about possible employment because his stats don't lie. So the team may have to pay an extra $40-50K to have an assistant for him. Who cares, when the end result is one of the best hockey minds in the business today?

[VonErich Lives]

If the team didn't want him to bring in other hockey people, they wouldn't of approved it. They afterall are the ones that have to pay for it. Regardless of why he brought them in, the team approved it.

Actually, a lot of GM's have power to bring people in.

Do you think the owners would have done it if they had known the reason?

[VonErich Lives]

Is his ability to write a contract more important than his ability to recognize and evaluate talent?

Secondly, it is unfair for any of us to question his integrity when we have never been put in that type of situation. I'm pretty sure most of us would have been deceptive if we were in a similar situation where outing oneself may result in the termination of our employment. We don't know whether he would have been fired from his GM position if he would have divulged his handicap so it is even unfair to speculate.

Lastly, nobody can take away his accomplishments on the ice. If he left RDS tomorrow I would guess there would be a few NHL teams knocking on his door about possible employment because his stats don't lie. So the team may have to pay an extra $40-50K to have an assistant for him. Who cares, when the end result is one of the best hockey minds in the business today?

Let me be clear, I'm not questioning his integrity, I'm not saying I wouldn't have done the same thing (or that I would, really don't know till you're in the situation), I'm not taking away anything he did on the Ice.

All I said would he will not get another "hockey job" after this. He won't get a front office job and I wouldn't be shocked if he wasn't offered a coaching job either.