A REAL World Champion...or just another face in the crowd?

[The One]

To be a big time draw, you need a big time player. To be a big time player, you need to be a guy who is worthy of the World Title, or at least a former champion. Seems simple right. But here comes the snag, why care about a guy who is World Champion, if evertone gets a ride. This is kind of hard since we now have two World Titles floating around, but don't hand them off to every guy who starts to get noticed by the fans. One of the most color conversations top have with someone is who is the best guy to never win a World Title...you notice that NO ONE since the Attitude Era is even considered for that list. Becuase since "Attitude", anyone who got any steam behind them got the belt. I realised this while watching Mania XX the other day, on that card alone, there was 20...TWENTY...former WWE crowd world Champions. There was (counting the women too) 30 performers who hadn't held the World Title...and thats count 6 women. Does anyone else see the problem with this? I saw we have reached a limit. No more crowning new World Champs. Remember when guys who were massivly over got a title shot, and actually *gasp* lost? It's like WWE is looking for anyone who they think can hold the title. Guys like Batista, Orton, JBL...why were they given the title? Because they got a few pops? It didn't mean anything. Hell my friends who used to watch wrestling tuned in the other day, and to their shock, Bradshaw was a main eventer, a bunch of guys who they had never heard of were holding the world titles, etc. I am shocked Carlito hasn't gotten his, "Hey you got a pop, here's the gold" run. Shawn Michaels was a guy who could have won the title two years before he wactually won it. Austin the same. I am not complaining that guys like Benoit and Guerrero got their ride, hell no one questioned why they were champs...but for the love of god, we don't need every Jonny-Few-Face-Pop/Heat getting their hands on the title. Let those guys who are getting over in a big way stick around and actually have a few wars with the IC Title and US Title...it A) not only hightens the meaning of the lower belts, but B) keeps the World Title belts as a goal. As fans we like seeing guys over come long journeys to win it finally...sure you can get a pop and shovel off a few more T-Shirts...but you miss out on creating a HUGE star that is so popular you can't keep the shirts in stock.

Anyone else agree, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

[Stickman]

I completely agree. I think the reason behind everybody now being a former champ is that there isn't that one or two guys that can carry the gold for a long period of time and they're trying to find that big star by giving them the belt. I think on Raw the main event scene should only have HHH, Angle, HBK, maybe Big Show, maybe Flair. Is Beniot on Raw? If so, him too. Have the title on change hands between these guys if at all, and have them defend against everybody and beat everybody else. That way, when somebody proves themself to be in the main event picture, they actually have a chance. Make sense? If not, fuck it.

[John la Rock]

so true.

I think that HHH said it best when said: "the biggest problem in the industry today is that guys are green"

[Loose Cannon]

Yep definately agree. You wonder why I have trouble remembering things from 2000 on, especially title switches? Well that's one of the problems. Way too many things going on

[Joey Slugs]

Look at guys like Austin, The Rock, HBK, HHH, & Hart. How long did it take them to go from rookie to World Champ? Each of them got built up, knocked down, built up again, a program with the IC belt, then down a few more rungs, finally on to a program with the current champ at that time.

Both HBK & Hart went from tag teams to mid carders to upper-mid, to main event but it took a hell of a long time to get there.

I understand that Benoit (a champ in WCW), Eddie, and JBL payed their dues in the business and got their chance at the top.

The problem with the news guys is this: what exactly were Cena and Batista doing 5 years ago?

When HBK won his first title, what was he doing 5 years prior? Putting on top notch matches and paying his dues.

All in all, The One, i agree with you 100%.

[mrslackalack]

Back in the WWF in 1991 when Ric Flair always came out


Hennan: THE REAL WORLDS CHAMPION!!!

I always thought that was hilarous. I had to post that when I saw the title of the thread.

[Innovator]

All the people who've recently held the belt sans Eddie and Benoit haven't had the "champion" feel to them.

That is why Angle or HBK need to win the title, since they have the championship aura around them.

[Jaton]

Wall of text. :|

[Kane Knight]

Look at guys like Austin, The Rock, HBK, HHH, & Hart. How long did it take them to go from rookie to World Champ? Each of them got built up, knocked down, built up again, a program with the IC belt, then down a few more rungs, finally on to a program with the current champ at that time.

There's the problem. The midcard's usually desolate. The midcard's usually treated like crap. In the Attitude Era, being a midcarder meant even Val Venis could be considered pushed, and might get a title shot. He'd lose horribly, but it didn't matter.

Half-cooked wrestlers are brought in before they've even been looked at, and they're not trying to develop what they've got. They want an Austin or Rock out of the box, which is why Orton and company have been pushed so far.

I don't entirely agree with "paying your dues," As I think an immediately valued talent is better used than made to pay. However, not every wrestler is Kurt FREAKING Angle, and deserving of an early main event slot. Exceptions should be made, but the folks didn't just come out of nowhere.

The problem is, this is a situation they should have been dealing with 3 years ago, not currently. If they had built people up to take the ball and run with it, they wouldn't need to put a champ up on the spot.

[Kane Knight]

All the people who've recently held the belt sans Eddie and Benoit haven't had the "champion" feel to them.

That is why Angle or HBK need to win the title, since they have the championship aura around them.

That's a short term solution though.

[Funky Fly]

The problem arises when you don't create new stars over a long period of time. You get stuck trying to take a guy who literally debuted 2 years before (Cena, Orton, Batista, Lesnar) and put the title on him. For the longest time, they overlooked guys like Benoit and Guerrero who had been around for a long time, even if not in the WWE for creating new stars. And what's up with Jericho? He hasn't truly been in the title picture since 2002. The Invasion fiasco didn't help any. All those WCW/ECW guys who should have been main eventing (DDP, RVD, Booker T) were jobbed out like crazy.

What happens when your main eventers get injured (HHH, Angle), or retire or want to work waaay less (Taker)? It's not like they couldn't have prevented the situation. Kane would easily have been a credible champ, especially as the unmasked psychopath , but they haven't done anything with him. As long as the same 2 or 3 guys are in the title picture, of course you're going to have to put the title on some young Jonny-Few-Face-Pop/Heat when all your other talent looks like glorified jobbers (Kane, Jericho) 90% of the time.

I think in the case of Lesnar and Batista, due to their monster characters and size, they can be pushed to the top quickly. Not that it's great long term, but it works for transitioning.

[Stickman]

I think Batista is alright as champ. I'd rather he was on Raw but so be it. Give him a mouth piece like Jimmy Hart, Bobby Heenan, Ted Dabiase he'd be a huge star. The dude has the look and decent enough talent, basically he's a believable champ. So I consider him to be the exception (I guess along with Lesner). But Cena for instance, is just too "green". Sure he can usually cut it on the mic, but seriously, a wigger rapper as Champ doesn't cut it. IS there anyboby on the roster that has been payed his dues that could actually be a believable champ?

[BigDaddyCool]

There is only 3 guys I think were a decent choice to get early title runs, and all 3 got title runs in the first year they were in WWE/WCW, and they are Angle, Bigshow, and Brock.

Angle was an Olympic champion, and is still pretty huge today.

Bigshow, well the Gaint at the time, was a Gaint, and there is no reason not to have a guy at that size main event when he is still hot.

Brock was possibly one of the best quick build ups ever. Here was a guy that looked the part, and could play the part.

Anyone else who ever got an early title run, execpt for maybe Goldberg has kinda sucked. Orton was crap. Cena is sub-par. Batista leaves something to be desired. Then most everyone else has paid their dues.

[Pinnacle Charisma]

Yeah I heard when HHH said that the problem with the guys today are too green and I have to agree. The problem when relatively young wrestlers are pushed to the top quickly (ala Cena, Bats ) is that they do not know how to entertain the crowd and fans at home. They may be over with the crowd but that doesn’t mean that they are being entertained. The young guys think that being a success just means pleasing the crowd ( eg- cena saying his catchphrases at inappropriate times like when he was feuding with y2j) and this necessarily doesn’t create an entertaining show and while the crowd is being pleased us at home are not.


Also fans usually cheer and respond better to people they know and its harder for the wwe to make people constantly watch their product if they not as familiar with the main stars as they should be. For example how HHH and Angle sometimes gets pops when he comes out and why hbk got cheered during his brief heel turn.

I think that wwe missed a golden opportunity by not having Jericho, Kane, Eddie and Benoit constantly main event in the years of 2003-2004 and possibly even now.

[BigDaddyCool]

I've been thinking about this for a while. I think Nick ask brought up the question who is the best wrestler in recent years not to win the championship. I've thought about it, and tried to limit myself to after 2000 so as to answer the question a little better. Now, the hardest part about this, is that most of these guys are still wrestling. Here are a few guys who have been built up like suggest above but have yet to hold the title:

Edge - while I personally don't like him He has been built up over the years and is about due for a serious title shot.

RVD - He can put on a great match, he is a fair injury free preformer...until recently. He has all the tools to make a great main eventer, but he has been held back and pushed aside way to often.

Rey Mystero - I know we have been debating him a lot lately, and is the any reason to wonder why? Sure, he is a special case when talking about the World or Heavyweight title given his size. But he has seemingly over come those obstacles, and is very close to seeming like a legit threat.

Well, all I could think of was those 3 guys, but to disprove a theory or something, all you need is one peice of evidence, at least that is what I learned in 5th grade science class.

Wait, I just though of another guy who might fit the bill, but it is streching it a bit, William Regal. He can preform in ring or on the mic, never held the title. I could see him holding the title with the proper push as well.


Also with all that said, I see that WWE is also slowly building up a few guys to be the stars of the future. I mean the real stars, not flash in the pans Cena and Orton are, but guy more on the level of HHH or Angle.

Shelton Benjiman - He is on Raw every week. Sure he might be jobbing to Angle every week. But I would rather be jobbing to Angle (and picking up a ton of pointer) in the semi-main event, than to winning against jobbers on heat. Shelton has has some impressive wins, and been an intercontental champion. In time, he is probably going to be the real future of WWE.

Carlito - just like Shelton, he has been on Raw every week. Sure he might be jobbing to Ric Flair or Shawn Micheals, or might be an extra on team Raw for Survivor Series, but it is better than being stuck on Heat. Also, he is jobbing to Flair and Micheals, and picking up a ton of the way. Again, it is almost an honor to be made to look good while jobbing to Flair or Micheals. Plus, Carlito is a pretty good interview. I see him and Shelton one day main eventing wrestlemania.

But for the most part The One is right, but there are the execptions.

[The Gooch]

I worry about the fan burn out factor. Will some of these guys who were pushed to the top so fast become like "Boy Bands" and the fans will grow tired of them quickly? Hot for a short period of time and then nowhere to be found.

Personally I think the WWE totally screwed up with RVD. He was so fucking hot when he joined and the fans still pop for him even though his push always seems to be cut out from under him. You can mention all his IC runs, but lets face facts the IC title hasn't meant shit for over a decade.

[Stickman]

[QUOTE=The Gooch]I worry about the fan burn out factor. Will some of these guys who were pushed to the top so fast become like "Boy Bands" and the fans will grow tired of them quickly? Hot for a short period of time and then nowhere to be found.

QUOTE]

I totally agree. A new guy gets pushed to the sky, loses the belt, I no longer care about him. IF Brock Lesner stayed around, I bet we'd all be bored of him by now. I think that's why I hate Smackdown, a bunch of new guys with relatively strong pushes, only to fizzle out in a month.

[Kane Knight]

I worry about the fan burn out factor. Will some of these guys who were pushed to the top so fast become like "Boy Bands" and the fans will grow tired of them quickly? Hot for a short period of time and then nowhere to be found.

Come on, boy bands don't die, they just hit puberty.

[Avenger]

I honestly mean this -

If only The One was booking on WWE

:(

[Truth Commission]

To be a big time draw, you need a big time player.

And you need a big time penis if Jim Ross anything to do with it.

Seriously though - the WWE are looking for the next hoss that can sexually satisfy Jim Ross. How else do you explain Chris Masters' push? :nono:

[John la Rock]

Batista has been a WAYYYY better champ than Cena

[redoneja]

Batista has been a WAYYYY better champ than Cena

[McLegend]

Cena has been a pretty impressive Champ from a mark standpoint.

Every big match he has come in with the odds stacked against him. Some of the fans if not most(which I don't think it is) even want him to lose and he still wins by himself. Right now Cena looks like the greatest World Champion ever from a Mark Standpoint.

I might exaggerate a little, but Cena still looks like a great champ.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I agree 100% with the "they should hang around a bit before they get the title" theory. John Cena and Randy Orton should still be winning mid-card titles. Ric Flair has held about seven WWE United States Championships, I think.

Please, Cena needs to drop the title soon. He's had a solid run, but he cannot headline WrestleMania. Have him wrestle Triple H in the undercard, with Cena going over strong. Let two established guys like Kurt Angle and Chris Jericho fight over the belt.

[redoneja]

1) Flair did not win WWE United States Championships, he was with Mid-Atlantic wrestling which was a part of the NWA.

2) Jericho will not be maineventing Wrestlemania. I guarentee it.

[Tornado]

Shelton Benjamin will be huge, he just needs to polish his microphone skills.
Carltion will definatly be huge, they just really need to hone his gimmick a bit more, as it's just not "main-event" at this time.
If he didn't suck incredible amounts of ass, and wasn't brought up wayyyyyy too early, Chris Masters could be huge.
They've kinda bothced what they had in Randy Orton. He had the potential to be the next Rock, until Vince blew his load and gave him the title for all of a month. They NEED to have Randy Orton kill off The Undertaker ON HIS OWN, and they need to do it a Wrestlemania, preferably Wrestlemanina 22. Then, Randy Orton will be ready for a title push again.