View Full Version : If Christian were to win the NWA Title at TNA...
CharismaInjection
12-09-2005, 04:38 PM
Would he then be considered a 'world champion' Is the NWA not considered a world title?
Ex. If Christian debuted somewhere else could they say 'former world champion'?
I don't think that the TNA NWA title is the real NWA Championship. Same as the WCW title.
That being said, yeah, they probably would.
Lock Jaw
12-09-2005, 05:38 PM
Anywhere but WWE.... yes.
McLegend
12-09-2005, 06:06 PM
Pretty sure that the NWA TNA title is the real NWA title. Either way though he would be called a former World Champion.
Loose Cannon
12-09-2005, 06:08 PM
yea, the NWA Title used by TNA is the one that goes back to the early 1900's. well that's what TNA says.
CharismaInjection
12-09-2005, 06:31 PM
Christian for champ!
He deseves to be a World Champion after all he's done for this business.
Kane Knight
12-09-2005, 08:25 PM
It's the real NWA title and it's considered by many to be a world championship.
Joey Slugs
12-09-2005, 08:56 PM
It's the real NWA title and it's considered by many to be THE world championship.
Fixed. :y:
mrslackalack
12-09-2005, 09:14 PM
Yes, because PWI and others reconiqze the lineage all the way back to Gotch.
The One
12-09-2005, 09:38 PM
NWA World Heavyweight Championship = The (remains, though I admit not the actual) First True World Title.
The One
12-09-2005, 09:39 PM
And yes, you could in theory introduce a former NWA World Champion as a Former World Champion...though I doubt many people are ready to hear Mike Rapada and World Champion in the same sentence without laughing.
Yes, because PWI and others reconiqze the lineage all the way back to Gotch.
PWI? LOL that was pretty funny.
Guardian Devil
12-10-2005, 10:33 AM
Yes, because PWI and others reconiqze the lineage all the way back to Gotch.
Seriously? That's news to me....interesting.
Kane Knight
12-10-2005, 10:55 AM
Fixed. :y:
Sorry, but I couldn't say anything Jeff Jarrett has handled was THE world title.
Kane Knight
12-10-2005, 10:56 AM
It also works if I saw:
Sorry, but I couldn't say anything Jeff Jarrett was handed was THE world title.
Destor
12-10-2005, 04:08 PM
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by mrslackalack
Yes, because PWI and others reconiqze the lineage all the way back to Gotch.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Actually, PWI credits George Hackenschmidt as the first World Champion.
You're all wrong, this is not the FIRST NWA's championship. That was the National Wrestling Association, and I believe THAT title would go back to Gotch (http://www.sandowmuseum.com/page28.html).
The National Wrestling Alliance's title goes back to the 50s when the NWA of today was formed.
According to Obsessed with Wrestling (http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/titles/nwa/worldheavyweight.html), this would make Orville Brown (detailed title history here (http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/titles/nwa/worldheavyweight-detail.html)) the first champion of TNA's title.
I've known this before I read it on OWW, I'm just using OWW as proof.
I guess you CAN say that this is the REAL world title because Lou Thesz won a unification match for both NWA championships and the titles were merged, but this is not the NWAssociation's title, it's the Alliance's title.
Loose Cannon
12-10-2005, 04:34 PM
Thesz won a unification match to unify like four or five World Titles. They all merged together under the Alliance Title. So TNA's World Title history is traced back to the early 1900's because it's got the whole lineage under it.
Thesz won a unification match to unify like four or five World Titles. They all merged together under the Alliance Title. So TNA's World Title history is traced back to the early 1900's because it's got the whole lineage under it.
So would you consider Sting a WWF champion? Or Brock Lesnar a WCW champion?
Of course not. Just because they're merged doesn't mean they're one title. There would then be a point for a year where there were two world champions.
The lineage can technically be traced back within the merge, but without the merge it's the Alliance's title.
Also, this would mean that Ric Flair is NOT a 16 time WORLD champion. He only held the NWA world title 10 times. The other six were his WCW runs and his WWF run.
Loose Cannon
12-10-2005, 04:45 PM
I'm just telling you what TNA says all the time on thier programming. They always reference that thier Title is traced back to Gotch and Hackenschmidt. And that's because the merge made all those Titles ONE Title. That's what a merge does.
I don't care what TNA says. They can say they have the only title in the world that anyone wants, it doesn't make it true.
I go back to my WWF/WCW argument. You wouldn't consider a WWF champion a WCW/whatever the WCW title was before the NWA/WCW breakaway champion. And you wouldn't trace the WCW title back to Buddy Rogers, because it just doesn't make sense. And it's the exact same circumstances (besides the time gap) as the NWA title merger.
Now, I guess it makes MORE sense with the Association/Alliance merge because there was only a 1 year gap as opposed to a 10 year gap, but I'm going for technicality here and not what any association says.
Kane Knight
12-11-2005, 12:49 AM
So would you consider Sting a WWF champion? Or Brock Lesnar a WCW champion?
Of course not. Just because they're merged doesn't mean they're one title. There would then be a point for a year where there were two world champions.
The lineage can technically be traced back within the merge, but without the merge it's the Alliance's title.
Sting never wrestled in the WWE or for a belt that carried WWE lineage. That's ridiculous.
Brock I don't think of as a WCW champion more because they've gone out of their way to downplay that aspect of the Unification. For all intents and purpose, they've gone out of theiur way to avoid said history.
But that's neither here nor there. Christian would be holding a title whose lineage does go back, even if he's not a champion of that belt itself.
Kane Knight
12-11-2005, 12:50 AM
Also, this would mean that Ric Flair is NOT a 16 time WORLD champion. He only held the NWA world title 10 times. The other six were his WCW runs and his WWF run.
Excep they're bth considered WORLD championship belts.
Hired Hitman
12-11-2005, 05:14 AM
Americans calling titles world, they think they're the whole world. :roll:
Okay, maybe my Sting assertion was a bit ridiculous, but wouldn't the WCW title now carry the WWE's lineage before it was made because they're two titles?
owenbrown
12-11-2005, 09:21 AM
Also, this would mean that Ric Flair is NOT a 16 time WORLD champion. He only held the NWA world title 10 times. The other six were his WCW runs and his WWF run.
According to various title histories, Flair is apparently MORE than a 16 time world champion. But, I could be wrong.
Kane Knight
12-11-2005, 10:32 AM
Americans calling titles world, they think they're the whole world. :roll:
Yeah, it's not like the WWE or WCW or the NWA ever had people from a large number of countries or anything.
Kane Knight
12-11-2005, 10:32 AM
Okay, maybe my Sting assertion was a bit ridiculous, but wouldn't the WCW title now carry the WWE's lineage before it was made because they're two titles?
Come again?
I mean that if the NWA championship carries back to 1908 or whatever, wouldn't the WCW championship go back to the 50's/60's/whatever WWF championship? It's basically the same thing with the NWA/NWA championships, the Alliance title carries back to the original NWA's title, so the WCW title should carry the WWF title's history before it was made. (Yes, it's reversed, but it would still apply technically.)
You can't have one merged title do one thing and another merged title with very similar circumstances do another. You've gotta stay consistent.
CharismaInjection
12-11-2005, 03:42 PM
Just seen a TNA Promo about Christian and Monty Brown. How the hell is Christian getting away with what he's doing? He's wearing the same entrance attire, same C C trousers, I thought the Dudley's had to change their attires. How is Christian getting away with this?
P.S. Welldone to CC, WWE can't touch him.
McLegend
12-11-2005, 04:01 PM
Captain Charisma was trademarked by Christian
CharismaInjection
12-11-2005, 04:06 PM
Yeah but I thought WWE would've wanted him to change his appearance, It looks like he's got the exact same attire from WWE.
McLegend
12-11-2005, 04:07 PM
WWE might want him to change the attire, but they have no say or can't do anything since he is legally allowed to wear what he is currently wearing.
Unless they trademarked the look (and I doubt that they did it for the Dudleys, either) and/or the logo, they can't do anything.
Joey Slugs
12-11-2005, 06:47 PM
http://www.nwawrestling.com/
Kane Knight
12-12-2005, 12:57 AM
I mean that if the NWA championship carries back to 1908 or whatever, wouldn't the WCW championship go back to the 50's/60's/whatever WWF championship? It's basically the same thing with the NWA/NWA championships, the Alliance title carries back to the original NWA's title, so the WCW title should carry the WWF title's history before it was made. (Yes, it's reversed, but it would still apply technically.)
You can't have one merged title do one thing and another merged title with very similar circumstances do another. You've gotta stay consistent.
Yes, post split, the WWE and WHT carry the same lineage for all intents prior to their split. but it doesn't apply retroactively.
The Mackem
12-14-2005, 03:37 PM
You guys have lot the plot, that's Jarrett's title, Christian won't win it. Go TNA!
The One
12-15-2005, 03:23 AM
I know some of you have already read my oginal writing of this. But for those of you who havn't...I have edited it to update it, but this is the World Title Story...
The WWE (RAW) Championship
Current champion John Cena holds the WWE Title, the first Champion of this title came in the form of Buddy Rogers in April of 1963...the World Wide Wrestling Federation dropped out of the NWA, weeks earlier the then NWA World Champion Buddy Rogers was defeated by Lou Thesz to win the NWA World Title, however Buddy Rogers went with the WWWF and instead of "awarding" him the World Title, or making him win it in a tournament, the WWWF said they refused to reconize Lou Thesz's victory of Rogers, so the WWWF continued to call Rogers the World Champion...and maybe my coment about him not winning it in a tournament was harsh, as he did put the title up for grabs in a tournament weeks later and he won that anyway...simple enough history, now comes the hard ones.
The (SmackDown!) World Heavyweight Championship
Batista right now is the current holder of the World Heavyweight Championship. Created on September 2, 2002 and awarded to Triple H for no reason other then Hunter was RAW's biggest star. Despite INCREDIBLE resemblence to the WCW World Title, it is not.
The WCW World Heavyweight Championship
The WCW Title was unified with the WWE Title to create the Undisputed World Championship by the Ayatola of Rock-And-Rolla himself Chris Jericho. But where does this title's history begin??? The World's Title history begins on January 11, 1991. Ric Flair had beaten NWA World Champion Sting to win the NWA World Title. However on September 8, 1991, Ric Flair left NWA-Mid Atlantic/WCW to join the WWF. On the date of September 8, 1991, the NWA VACATED the World's Heavyweight Championship for the first time in history...but wait, WCW had claimed that on July 1, 1991 Ric Flair was stripped of the World's Heavyweight Championship...how could that be? Officially, Ric Flair was both the WCW World's Champion and the NWA World's Champion between January 11 and July 1...then from July 1 to September 8 Ric Flair was simply the NWA World Champion...The controversy now lies in this...for a long time, the NWA World Title was called the WCW World Title on TV. But since the stripping of the titles came on different dates, and because NWA officially had legal rights to the title, the WCW title was effecttivly created on January 11, and Ric Flair was the first Champion...so all this talk about Ric Flair being a 16 time WCW World Champion is nothing more then WCW trying to lay claims to a title they never possesed (Ric was a 8 time WCW World Champion)...the NWA World Title and the WCW World Title are 2, count them, TWO totally different titles, created on different dates, the only similarity is that since Ric Flair was the NWA World Champion, the WCW gave him the WCW World Title...which brings us on to the 2nd company to claim to have the World's Heavyweight Championship...
(for the sake of everyone I am going to skip the WCW Universal World's Heavyweight Title...as that was just plain...skipable)
The NWA World's Heavyweight Championship
Since I have already gone through the controlversy surround the WCW deal, I will skip it and say that the NWA can't claim to have the original World Title either. The first NWA World Champion was Orville Brown, and he became the NWA World Champion in October of 1948...but much like the WCW Title, he didn't win it to become the first Champion, he was awarded the belt because he was the World Champion of another company (sound farmiliar). Orville Brown was the Midwest Wrestling Association's World Heavyweight Champion, and when the MWA, along with about a dozon other wrestling companies combined, they collectivly formed the National Wrestling Alliance. And since MWA was the most reconized of all the companies, and because Oville Brown was a big name, he was given the NWA World Title. (By the way, Ric Flair was a 10 time NWA World Champion...combine that with the 8 time WCW Champion, and his 2 WWE Titles, makes him a 20 time World Champ...oh and this is the title currently held by Jeff Jarrett of NWA-TNA). But what about this MWA...were does their history start?
The MWA World Heavyweight Championship
The first Champion of the MWA was Bobby Bruns, he beat Orville Brown in the finals of a tournament to crown the first MWA World Heavyweight Champion on January 19, 1940...the title would change hands 25 times in the 8 years before the MWA joined with others to form the NWA...Orville Brown was an 11 time Champion of the MWA before he was announced the first NWA World Champion...
So what is the first World's Heavyweight Title??? Finally I give you, the REAL World's Heavyweight Championship...
The Real World Heavyweight Championship
On January 30, 1904, George Hackenschmidt defeated Ahmed Madrali in London England to become the first World Heavyweight Championship, he currently held the American Heavyweight Title, the European Greco-Roman Heavyweight Title, and by defeating Ahmed Madrali he was the first World Champion...this is the title that Frank Gotch held for 5 years before retiring and effectivly vacating the title...Charlie Culter was then the American Heavyweight Champion, and once Frank retired he became the World Champion...the title effectivly ended on November 9, 1956 when Lou Thesz won a tournament to crown the Undisputed World Champion...Lou Thesz combined the World Wrestling Association Title (LA...different then the other WWA mentioned earlier), the World Heavyweight Title, and the NWA world Title be winning the tournament...Lou Thesz was reconized as the NWA World heavyweight Champion from that day forward, and the legacy of the original World Heavyweight Championship was lost forever.
There, any questions? Good, great, grand, whatever!
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