what does WWE look for in a cruiserweight? Serious CW discussion

[The Naitch]

asides the willingness to JOB, what does an average cruiser need to fit the criteria of a WWE Cruiserweight Champion?

ie. We had Juvi for a while. It apparent that he is a seasoned veteran, good on the mic, and Vince and Johnny Ace likes him

Can a decent CW (not at Rey Mysterio's level) be successful in WWE with the help of good mic work and proper booking?

Compare the current WWE cruiserwieght style to other promotions right now (TNA/ROH) and promotions in the past (WCW/ECW) and lastly Mexico and Japan

Go to it

[The Naitch]

Thoughts on the following:

Jamie Noble
Funaki
Spike Dudley
Billy Kidman
Scotty 2 Hotty
XPac

etc etc etc

[The Naitch]

By definition of successful, we'll say a long reigning WWE Crusierweight Champion who gets good TV time (ie. Noble and Nidia in 2002-2003), good booking (doesn't job all the time), jobber to the stars, and to some extent the focal point of the stable (ie. Nunzio, Juvi, Spike Dudley in 2004 as "The Boss")

[Kane Knight]

I don't know. They didn't keep Ultimo, and he's seriously got "it."

Most of the CW champs seem to be subpar.

[Favre4Ever]

When Jamie Knoble first joined the company, I thought he was sort of the ideal image of what a cruiserweight should be. Short, athletic, can go to the top, but also has some powerful moves.

Lately though, it kinda seems like every cruiserweight they hire has to be as close to Rey Mysterio as possible.

Overall, I think that the cruiserweight division just more time to establish feuds on the mic, instead of getting randomly thrown into shit. Its not like everybody watches their promos on Velocity.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Well, I think the WWE really likes cruiserweights that can wrestle. Nunzio is apparently a favourite of Vince McMahon, and that has been proven even further by him winning the Cruiserweight Title not once, but twice this year. Plus they trust him enough to put him on PPV and SmackDown! as a jobber, which may not seem like an honour, but I think the WWE thinks Nunzio would be grateful just to be doing something on the main card.

The WWE has recently accepted Jamie Noble and Brian Kendrick back. They obviously recognise the talent there. Funaki and Scotty 2 Hotty have kept their jobs for a while, and although it can be argued they are jobbers, they are getting paid and occasionally get their time in the sun (Funaki with the CW Title and Scotty with the WWE Tag Titles).

Paul London, even if reports have said is not on good terms with Vince McMahon, is usually one of the first guys the WWE sends to make another guy look good. He's constantly one of the final two in the Cruiserweight Battle Royals and he's occasionally allowed to put on good-great matches.

What constitutes a Cruiserweight Champion? I honestly think it is just trial and error until the WWE finds the next "Rey Mysterio". Someone who the fans click with and turn into a bonafined babyface, and not just a "we cheer you because you're good and not because we are given a reason in the storylines" face. Or a heel. I think they might find success with Kid Kash, because the fans know him (kinda), and he's talented enough and charismatic enough to make people care what he's doing in the ring. Much like Jamie Noble, Billy Kidman and Chavo Guerrero before him, I can always see the Cruiserweight Title coming back around his waist at some point. The same goes with Juventud Guerra. The Mexicools are honestly gettin great reactions at the moment, so I can see the WWE letting Kid Kash and Juventud be the focal point of the division in coming weeks. I wouldn't be surprised to see the WWE plop Jamie Noble in there, too.

So in short, here is the criteria for a Cruiserweight Champion (in my opinion, of course):

-Charismatic
-Handle themselves on the mic
-Good in the ring
-Has a natural rapport with the crowd

Unfortunately the WWE continually fails to capitalise on these things, and the CW Champion falls into the backdrop only to compete occasionally on Velocity until they drop the title to another guy, and the process repeats itself. Throw a few matches on SmackDown! occasionally, and give us a character the fans can get behind or against on a full-time basis. I honestly don't know why they haven't stuck a Cruiserweight Champion with JBL yet. Kid Kash has the money theme going on, so why not do that with him? Hell, stick MNM with them too seeing as they have the whole connection to Jillian Hall. Or even The Dicks?

I think the last Cruiserweight Champion to ever be a part of a stable outside the CW Division was Spike Dudley, and by that time The Dudleys (as they were being called at that time) were stale, and let's face it, Spike Dudley doesn't make for the most believeable heel Champion.

I say stick Kid Kash, Nunzio, Jamie Noble, Scott Taylor (the fans would be all over this guy if he turned heel) or any other cruiserweight for that matter, with JBL and have them turn heel and win the title. Let them then wrestle good matches, an set up an uber-heel in the division for the others to gang up on. Give the title an actual storyline beyond "I want the title", in other words. See how that works out and then I think you will see more Cruiserweight Champions based on ability and crowd reactions than on trial and error criteria.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Seriously, I don't know why they haven't stuck the title on Simon Dean. He's talented in the ring, and the fans love to boo him. He may not make the most "credible" Champion, but give him hired muscle and stick him with JBL (I really think this is a good idea for a cruiser) and you have yourself a guy that can drop the title on any given night and get the guy he's facing over extremely quickly as a face.

[Favre4Ever]

I'm almost glad they gave JBL that run with the title for so long, because now hes kind of a permanent upper mid carder. His matches aren't amazing, but at least he can get people going on the mic. Simon Dean, Kid Kash and mabye even one of the Mexicools could steal a win off of him to generate interest in their characters.

[Kane Knight]

Seriously, I don't know why they haven't stuck the title on Simon Dean. He's talented in the ring, and the fans love to boo him. He may not make the most "credible" Champion, but give him hired muscle and stick him with JBL (I really think this is a good idea for a cruiser) and you have yourself a guy that can drop the title on any given night and get the guy he's facing over extremely quickly as a face.

That would work really well.

[CharismaInjection]

Rey Mysterio is great, WWE sees him as above cruiserweights and I doubt he'll ever challenge for the belt again.

[CharismaInjection]

Jamie Knoble is great, I saw his return match on Velocity, I hope he's no. 1 contender for the title if Juvi's out of the picture.

[CharismaInjection]

The Mexicools are great.

Super Crazy & Psicosis are great, a great team, very fast and very energetic.

And Juvi is THE JUICE! No other words needed.

[94 SVT Cobra]

Its kinda hard to have a cruiserweight leauge when half there moves are banned/ looked down upon by wwe management for being "unsafe".

[hb2k]

Super Crazy
Kid Kash
Psicosis
The Juice
Jamie Noble
Paul London
Nunzio
Spanky
Funaki
Scotty 2 Hotty

The potential is there for some good stuff, but London and Kendrick, as well as Crazy and Psicosis are teams, leaving Kash, Juvi and Noble to carry the division, as Nunzio, Funaki and Scotty are simply average. I thought Juvi should have beaten Kash to establish his reign a little, and gone on to feud with Noble.

Right now, I don't know if WWE knows what it wants for anything, let alone Cruisers.

[CharismaInjection]

Anyone know why WWE loves Rey Mysterio so much?

Not that I'm against it, but I'm curious what he's got that the other cruisers don't.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Anyone know why WWE loves Rey Mysterio so much?

Not that I'm against it, but I'm curious what he's got that the other cruisers don't.

He was given the chance to get in the ring with guys like Kurt Angle, Edge, Chris Benoit & Eddie Guerrero. The fans reacted well, and ow he's where he's at. If they got Paul London, slapped him in a match with Chris Benoit, I'm sure the fans would react just the same way and the WWE would bow to him in the same way they do to Mysterio.

I've thought about this a lot, and I've come to the thinking that the WWE should unify the World Heavyweight and WWE United States Championships. The US Title is a WWE belt with WCW history, and the WH Title is a WCW belt with WWE history. They sory of go hand-in-hand. Plus then you can have the simple distinction of a "Heavyweight Division" and "Cruiserweight Division" and make both titles seem as worthy of recognition as the other. Use the WWE Tag Team Championship to do this (for example, having The Mexicools win the titles from a heavyweight team, so you don't have the "little guys cannot hang with big guys" stigma). When a cruiserweight then breaks into the Heavyweight Division, it is a huge thing.

[Mr. Nerfect]

A scenario like that would also make a lot of concepts possible. A Heavyweights vs. Cruiserweights themed PPV, or one where you have a heavyweight team up with a cruiserweight in a tag team tournament, or something of the such.

Realistically it doesn't give anyone any more time (there wouldn't be roster cuts), but it does leave more room to establish Championships. Right now I have trouble trying to work out who is a United States Title guy and who is a World Heavyweight Title guy, and why.

[Kane Knight]

Anyone know why WWE loves Rey Mysterio so much?

Not that I'm against it, but I'm curious what he's got that the other cruisers don't.

He used to be amazing. See also Flair, Ric.

[hb2k]

In all fairness, Rey looked really solid against MNM on SD....

[Kane Knight]

In all fairness, Rey looked really solid against MNM on SD....

Solid in one match is nothing compared to the work he did in WCW.

[Cool King]

Scotty 2 Hotty owns you all!:rant:

:shifty:

But really. I think Scotty can be a good Cruiserweight Champion. He's great with the crowd, he's ok on the mic. Good in the ring, and he's been with the WWE since time began. (He's actually been with the WWE since 1993)

[The Naitch]

they love Rey because he's Rey

On a side note, Davairi has the build of an average cruiser weight, but due to teaming with Hassan, he got the main event rub. Now he's jackked, bigger and siding with Angle is getting him more exposure.

I think it has to do with the person. If you have the right attitude and convince management with ideas, and/or coming in debut alongside a Heavyweight, a crusier type can still get the spotlight instead of settling for a spot on the low card or Velocity

Davairi is a perfect example.

If I was small and wanted to get noticed, I'd probably do what Davairi did. Be a good wrestler in the indies, then comin in as a mouthpiece for a young and coming Heavyweight that's also making his debut. You get the rub alot better than just floating around the CW division

And once you establish yourself, you can go to the CW division (not looking at it as a step down) and bring the division up a notch

But I'd rather be a full time manager that wrestles occasionally, like Davairi does (when he was teaming with Hassan)

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, Daivari's done fine for himself. I don't know if the WWE has any plans for him past being a heel for Cena to kick around, though. It would have been great if Daivari won the "You Can't See Me" Match.

I have a funny feeling Daivari will one day end up in the Cruiserweight Division, though.

[Kane Knight]

Scotty 2 Hotty owns you all!:rant:

:shifty:

But really. I think Scotty can be a good Cruiserweight Champion. He's great with the crowd, he's ok on the mic. Good in the ring, and he's been with the WWE since time began. (He's actually been with the WWE since 1993)

Scotty is underappreciated because his gimmick is utter shite.

[Ruien]

Scotty 2 Hotty owns you all!:rant:

:shifty:

But really. I think Scotty can be a good Cruiserweight Champion. He's great with the crowd, he's ok on the mic. Good in the ring, and he's been with the WWE since time began. (He's actually been with the WWE since 1993)

+1

I do not know how he still gets his pops. They might not be great, but I hear the crowd better than with say the likes of Regal, MNM, Snitsky, that one tag team on RAW that Big Show and Kane beat, ect.

[ThruTheWire]

He was given the chance to get in the ring with guys like Kurt Angle, Edge, Chris Benoit & Eddie Guerrero. The fans reacted well, and ow he's where he's at. If they got Paul London, slapped him in a match with Chris Benoit, I'm sure the fans would react just the same way and the WWE would bow to him in the same way they do to Mysterio.


Paul London doesn't have nearly as much as Rey brings to the table. He's just an average cruiser.

[The Naitch]

I think you gotta have some sort of muscle mass on your frame. It helps

Guys like Spike, Kendrick, London are right height but too skinny. Guys like Juvi, Rey, Noble, Kidman, Chavo are thicker

[The Naitch]

And Daivairi has been pumping the juice lately. He looks like fuckin' Cena!

[Mr. Nerfect]

Paul London doesn't have nearly as much as Rey brings to the table. He's just an average cruiser.

I disagree. Rey Mysterio has the "crazy big moves", but a lot of guys from Mexico can do it just as well as him (especially since Mysterio isn't what he used to be). London can put on an Iron Man Match, do entertaining quick matches and bump like Hell.

Mysterio is probably the luchadore of the decade, but I'd say London would give him a run for his money these days. London vs. Mysterio? That sounds a lot better than Mysterio vs. Nitro, as awesome as Nitro is, so there's something there.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think you gotta have some sort of muscle mass on your frame. It helps

Guys like Spike, Kendrick, London are right height but too skinny. Guys like Juvi, Rey, Noble, Kidman, Chavo are thicker

I was just watching an old London vs. Akio match, and London looked quite a bit thicker than he does these days. I wonder if he's made any changes to his lifestyle or anything? I wouldn't put him in the same boat as Kendrick and Spike just yet. No offense to either guy, but they're qite a bit thinner than your average cruiser. London's smaller, but he's not pathetically small.

I think a lot has to do with character. The fans really hit it off with the Jamie Noble character, because he has the hot girlfriend. The fans recognise Chavo because he teamed with Eddie and has the last name Guerrero. Kidman teamed with Mysterio in WCW and has done some crazy shit, feuded with Hulk Hogan and bangs Torrie. Rey is Rey, and Juvi is Juvi, both guys have that WCW Cruiser icon next to their name, and can always be taken as serious cruiserweights because of it.

Actually, it's interesting that all the guys you mentioned as being thicker are ex-WCW guys. Maybe that association has something to do with CW success? If London, Kendrick & Spike Dudley competed in WCW as cruiserweights, do you think people would take them more seriously in today's division? I mean, if in WCW Spike Dudley could beat Rey Mysterio, where the division was treated seriously, if he did it in WWE it would make a lot more sense. Maybe the whole WCW image does have a slight effect on what constitutes and effective CW Champion.

I personally think they should just put matches on SmackDown! regularly, and have at least two on Velocity. So that's three a week. One title based match, one contendership based match and one other match. That doesn't need to be exact, but it's a prototype.

Let Juvi and Kid Kash compete in a Ladder Match at the Royal Rumble. Ladder Matches are crazy most of the time, and capture the fans interest, to see guys breaking their bodies over the CW Title would make it look more important. I have the urge to say throw in London, Kendrick and maybe some other guys, but I think it really should be between KK and The Juice. Have The Mexicools come out, and beat on Kid Kash while Juvi climbs the ladder to become Cruiserweight Champion for what would be the sixth time. Then have Psicosis and Super Crazy look at the belt, look at each other, and then beat down Juvi. It adds more buzz around the title, and makes it look like being a Cruiserweight Champion is more important than keeping your allies. I'm sure Super Crazy, Psicosis & Juvi can whip up some good shit, and leave the fans satisfied.