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View Full Version : Ben Moody is a ****ing asshole.


DaveWadding
12-11-2003, 01:01 PM
<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="90%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Taken from evboard.com



</TD></TR><TR><TD class=quote>lore77: These are my thoughts about what's gonna happen to Evanescence in the next few months (like I said, JUST MY THOUGHTS, don't start jumping on my ass with stuff like "you know nothing, so shut up"... Yes, I know nothing but as long as I have a brain I'd like to keep thinking and having my own opinions – right or wrong, true or false – about what I read and what I see):





1) I don’t think Ben will join the band again in the near future. Evanescence will carry on even without Ben
2) There will be a new guitarist who will fill in John's spot and John will take Ben's position. That new guitarist will not be Balsamo from Cold and it won’t be Morgan from Seether either.
3) Evanescence will go on tour more and more with Seether.
4) Evanescence will be the top act at the Grammy's winning most of the major awards. My immortal slowly but surely will take the charts by storm becoming even bigger than Bring me to life and giving Evanescence a whole new audience (besides the usual rock fans). Fallen will sell almost 15 million copies by the end of 2004.
5) Amy will have major control on the band without Ben, she'll keep going around saying "I'm a singer in a rock band, I'm not a solo artist", in the meantime the next Evanescence record will be mainly the Amy Lee record. Her voice will get even louder, her image will get even stronger and more aggressive and she'll become an icon, probably the biggest female rocker of this new Millennium.
6) Ben will stick around with different projects becoming one of the most requested producers in music business.

I know... this is a pretty stupid thread (am I a fortune-teller or what?), but WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


ToB: I agree with all your points except #5 and #6. I think (nay, I know) that they will start to sell the band as more of a BAND rather than they have in the past with just Amy and Ben and some guys. It won't become Amyescence like you seem to think it will. Also, on #6, although I think Ben is a good guy and a talented musician, I think that Evanescence was his shot at greatness. I think that by leaving he blew said chance. Sure, he won't go quietly off into the sunset, but he won't be as big as if he had stayed with Evanescence.

John already has been playing Ben's parts since Ben left. Ben left the morning of a show with no notice given to John or anybody else. John was left holding the bag as the lone guitar player left on tour. He picked up the slack, learned all of Ben's parts in one day solely by listening to Fallen, and tracked all the rest of the stuff that Ben was doing that wasn't as important. If you listen carefully, Ben and John were playing most of the same rhythm parts during most of the songs. As far as I know, there was only one guitar tracked onto Fallen, and that's why the live shows come across a lot heavier than the album versions of songs. Anyway, all this to say that John is an extremely talented musician, and it's about time that he's starting to get some credit for that and some recognition.

efanar (Ben): OKay, I probably shouldn't be going into this, but I will.
A couple of things...
John was not left holding the bag, so to speak. Ben did NOT leave without notice. John spent weeks learning Ben's parts and Ben actually sat with John to go over the solos. There were absolutely more than one guitar tracked on Fallen. And as far as leaving Ev being a poor personal decision, I would think as a friend, you would be cooler, and wiser, than to say something so hanusly uneducated. I understand if you have a hard on for John, but Ben created Ev from the beginning. ACCEPT IT. Ev was not his shot at greatness. It was the one thing standing in his way.. oh **** this third person bullshit. This is Ben. and your statements are ****ed up. I have achieved greatness.. and you know what that is?
I've made my peace with myself and my peace with God. My shot at greatness came in the form of a decision. Follow my heart, or follow my head. And as far as I'm concerned you are in no position to judge what is and what is not great. If your definition of greatness is being in a band like ev than your world is a sad, dark, hopeless, and all around ****ED UP PLACE. I pitty you and will be praying for you. I can only hope that you and anyone who thinks that way will one day open your eyes to life beyond this bullshit.

You know, I have cherished this board and everyone on it since even before you, TOB, were a part of it. I have been the only member of Ev, past or present, to be loyal to those who are loyal to us. I am the one who from day one did everything in my power to relay how much you all mean to ev and how much i respect you. And TOB, you have been here long enough to know better than to even think this way. It's sickening. I did everything I could for ev, up to and including letting all manner of things be said by fans and "friends" without saying a word. Keeping my promise of silence at the expense of my honor and dignity. I have allowed attack after attack go unavenged because I took refuge in the one place I knew was safe for me. The exodus board. But now that has been taken from me.
The sad fact is, that you haven't even seen what is to come. Do you really think that anyone in ev has even a small percentage of the drive or ambition that I have? Do you really think that the world has a shot in hell at making ev the biggest thing I ever do? WAKE UP! You haven't seen the last of me and won't for a long time. But none of that even matters. One line keeps repeating in my head even as I type this. "ev was his one shot at greatness."
If that's true, and if being in ev (not writing, mind you.. i can do that anywhere.) was my "one shot at greatness"... then my asperations as a human being far outweigh the limitations of this earth and the standards that people like you live by are too far beneath me to even strive for. I'm sorry to those of you who have been loyal to us, and especially to me. I had hoped that the relationship that we built over the last year would carry on into future endeavors, but apperantly you have already decided my fate.
So this will be the last post I make. I love you all, and it has been a blast. But i think that my persuit of greatness is headed in a direction that simply isn't important to you, and that saddens me.
Goodbye.
- Ben Moody

What a prick. It's so funny because I called him on it and no one else would..and now everyone hates me over there and is up my ass about it.

Silent
12-11-2003, 01:05 PM
Didn't read it, but I heard he's gonna play in Avril Lavigne.

Champion of Europa
12-11-2003, 01:07 PM
I don't see what was so assholish about it.

Don't be so biased towards Amy Lee.

DegenerationY
12-11-2003, 01:07 PM
what the hell was that?

I think it's time to get off it, Dave

The only reaction you'll get is one of apathy.

#BrotherVito DELETED
12-11-2003, 02:39 PM
<font color=goldenrod>Let it go, Dave. Let it go.</font>

deathtrap
12-11-2003, 02:44 PM
who actually cares

Elements
12-11-2003, 03:15 PM
Do people still listen to Evanescence?

asphyXy
12-11-2003, 04:36 PM
<font color=969696>I'm seeing Children of Bodom, Hypocrisy, Nevermore and Dimmu Borgir tomorrow.</font>

Champion of Europa
12-11-2003, 04:38 PM
I got a negative rep for my post in this thread. :lol:

They didn't say who they were, just a blank message.

DaveWadding
12-11-2003, 05:06 PM
probably Kenny.

Kenny
12-11-2003, 05:30 PM
probably Kenny.

No, it wasn't me. I don't know what it is you have against me, besides the fact I pissed off your over emotional EVboard buddies.

It was probably YOU. You gave me a bad rep cause you thought I stole my sig from the guy who posted it in the EVboard, and the guy who posted it in the EVboard was me.

If any member of Evanescence REALLY bothered to look over all of those posts, they'd probably have the board shut down. I'm not really much different here than I was there, the big difference here is that this is actually a fan board and not a place for a bunch of overly obsessed cultists to meet and discuss their sexual fantasies with the people the board is directed towards. Oh... that and Triple A runs this one, and not to join the "Triple A Kiss Ass Club" or anything... but he's not a big pussy like your good friend ToB.

But hey, I post on a Matrix forum too. Is it okay if I still my sig from there without you giving me a bad rep?

DaveWadding
12-11-2003, 05:50 PM
No, it wasn't me. I don't know what it is you have against me, besides the fact I pissed off your over emotional EVboard buddies.

It was probably YOU. You gave me a bad rep cause you thought I stole my sig from the guy who posted it in the EVboard, and the guy who posted it in the EVboard was me.

If any member of Evanescence REALLY bothered to look over all of those posts, they'd probably have the board shut down. I'm not really much different here than I was there, the big difference here is that this is actually a fan board and not a place for a bunch of overly obsessed cultists to meet and discuss their sexual fantasies with the people the board is directed towards. Oh... that and Triple A runs this one, and not to join the "Triple A Kiss Ass Club" or anything... but he's not a big pussy like your good friend ToB.

But hey, I post on a Matrix forum too. Is it okay if I still my sig from there without you giving me a bad rep?
LOL my EV Board BUDDIES? I just cussed out BEN MOODY this morning, yeah everyone over there LOVES me.

Kenny
12-11-2003, 06:01 PM
LOL my EV Board BUDDIES? I just cussed out BEN MOODY this morning, yeah everyone over there LOVES me.

Okay, just don't do anything EXTREMELY wrong like use red fonts. I think you can be a dick sometimes, but I'm looking for a way to contact the people at Evanescence.com about opening up another forum so somebody like myself who hit a nerve with ToB can still post about and discuss the band.

DaveWadding
12-11-2003, 08:53 PM
there is an evanescence.com forum..I think. Not sure.

Champion of Europa
12-11-2003, 08:55 PM
I talked to the first person who gave me the first negative rating because of my post in this topic.

Now to find out the person who was so scared of getting a negative rating that they didn't feel like living their name.

Yep, someone else gave me a negative rating for it.

DaveWadding
12-11-2003, 09:04 PM
I gave you a positive rating Mitch...

Kenny
12-11-2003, 09:33 PM
there is an evanescence.com forum..I think. Not sure.

There used to be but they took it down cause of Bandwith or something.

Supreme Olajuwon
12-11-2003, 09:41 PM
why do people say Amy Lee is hot

shes not

the girl from tsunami bomb is hotter and their music is better

IMO of course

Kenny
12-11-2003, 10:02 PM
why do people say Amy Lee is hot

shes not

the girl from tsunami bomb is hotter and their music is better

IMO of course

I'm sorry, check out the sig and tell me that's not hot. Consider it an online homosexuality test.

Supreme Olajuwon
12-11-2003, 10:18 PM
k Im a big homo then

asphyXy
12-11-2003, 11:07 PM
<font color=969696>She's not hot.</font>

DaveWadding
12-11-2003, 11:08 PM
I think she is, and you think she isn't. I agree to disagree. Kenny is just stupid.

Kane Knight
12-11-2003, 11:23 PM
I'm sorry, check out the sig and tell me that's not hot. Consider it an online homosexuality test.

Yeah, you have to be gay to dig that kinda makeup. ;)

Kenny
12-11-2003, 11:50 PM
Oh whatever... if any of you caught her on one of your favorite porn sites topless on a beach you'd be all over it.

I don't see what makes a Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, or any other girl more or as attractive as Amy Lee. Maybe Hot's not the most common word, although I think she is, but sexy.. hell yes. Not too many girls have class and self respect anymore, but most guys don't like that cause if more girls were like that their chances of getting laid would be about 0.

asphyXy
12-11-2003, 11:52 PM
<font color=969696>Kenny, check this out: I don't find her to be attractive. :eek:</font>

DaveWadding
12-11-2003, 11:53 PM
Oh whatever... if any of you caught her on one of your favorite porn sites topless on a beach you'd be all over it.

I don't see what makes a Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, or any other girl more or as attractive as Amy Lee. Maybe Hot's not the most common word, although I think she is, but sexy.. hell yes. Not too many girls have class and self respect anymore, but most guys don't like that cause if more girls were like that their chances of getting laid would be about 0.
You're getting asshurt over nothing.

road doggy dogg
12-12-2003, 02:20 AM
Who is ToB

HAS SEKSI BM BEEN LISTENING TO EVANESCENCE NOW :mad: :mad:

Kenny
12-12-2003, 03:03 AM
Who is ToB

HAS SEKSI BM BEEN LISTENING TO EVANESCENCE NOW :mad: :mad:


ToB is the Triple A of EVboard.com. An Evanescence UBB board.

Just imagine what this place would be like if Triple A was an over-emotional attention whore, who bans people for stupid reasons yet doesn't mind reading posts that involve a bunch of under-age chicks having orgies with guys who look like they're in their 30's.

Oh yeah... and if all of the mods were 15 year old girls with issues with depression, and guys who think a UBB mod title is something you tell a girl to get laid.

Silent
12-12-2003, 10:12 AM
Amy is pretty damn ugly, but I don't generally listen to music for the band's looks.

Tornado
12-12-2003, 10:48 AM
<font color=#33ffff>She looks very attractive in the My Immortal vid..:y:</font>

deathtrap
12-12-2003, 11:09 AM
Any Lee is uglier than lemmy

Elements
12-12-2003, 11:23 AM
Warts 4 Lyf

deathtrap
12-12-2003, 11:29 AM
damn right.

Kane Knight
12-12-2003, 11:40 AM
Oh whatever... if any of you caught her on one of your favorite porn sites topless on a beach you'd be all over it.

I don't see what makes a Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, or any other girl more or as attractive as Amy Lee. Maybe Hot's not the most common word, although I think she is, but sexy.. hell yes. Not too many girls have class and self respect anymore, but most guys don't like that cause if more girls were like that their chances of getting laid would be about 0.

:lol:

Let it go. People don't agree with your unhealthy obsession with someone who has deliberately made herself into just another f*cktoy. How you (or she) can claim she has self respect is beyond me.

Kenny
12-12-2003, 01:43 PM
:lol:

Let it go. People don't agree with your unhealthy obsession with someone who has deliberately made herself into just another f*cktoy. How you (or she) can claim she has self respect is beyond me.

If you go to MTV.com and read about the band she talks a lot about women in music showing skin to sell, and how she won't do that. Which she doesn't. If you're lucky you'll catch a cleve shot here and there but that's about as far as it goes. Above that she's one of the few female artists you won't find on a porn site. Atleast none of the one's I've been to in the past 6 months.

And if I was in here saying "Amy Lee is a god damn whore"... you'd be in here defending her cause you just like to argue. I'm far from obsessed with the girl but most of her female fan following openly say that one of the main reasons they're fans of Evanescence and Amy in general is because she doesn't use sex to sell.

But you say she has no self respect and in that case i guess she doesn't because you know everything.

Kane Knight
12-12-2003, 02:05 PM
Taurus, you pull that card every time. I'm only arguing because I like to.

It's more because you're a moron on a high horse. You pull it because it's all you have to resort to. You're ranting to a level of hero worship, but it can't be that I think your opinion is bullshit. No, not in Taurus' fantasy land!

Get off it, kid. You're jerking off to her because of an image she created. You're pretending she's something different, which is nonsense. You've even created a denial excuse for each argument. Asphyxy is either gay or lying. I'm just arguing to argue. It can't be that people don't agree with you! No! Because you have this issue with hero worship, and anyone who crosses you is automatically in the wrong...Even on a matter of personal opinion.

Kenny
12-12-2003, 02:11 PM
Taurus, you pull that card every time. I'm only arguing because I like to.

It's more because you're a moron on a high horse. You pull it because it's all you have to resort to. You're ranting to a level of hero worship, but it can't be that I think your opinion is bullshit. No, not in Taurus' fantasy land!

Get off it, kid. You're jerking off to her because of an image she created. You're pretending she's something different, which is nonsense. You've even created a denial excuse for each argument. Asphyxy is either gay or lying. I'm just arguing to argue. It can't be that people don't agree with you! No! Because you have this issue with hero worship, and anyone who crosses you is automatically in the wrong...Even on a matter of personal opinion.

Anyone with half a brain can see the "either gay or lying" comment was far from serious. And yes I DO like what she's created for many reasons. You say she's no different than any other of 'em out there but she is. How many talk shows do you see based around "My Daughter Wants To Dress Like Christina" or "My Daughter Wants Boobs Like Britneys"?

Whether it's Amy Lee or anyone who seperates themselves from the "I have to show my ass so people will like me" crowd... I'm all for it. Mandy Moore is another one. She was supposed to show her ass in a movie she has coming out but from what I understand she requested a double. There's a huge part of me that was hoping to download that short clip off of Kazaa but there's also a huge part of me that's happy there are still actual "Girls" left in this world.

You can say that's an "image Amy or Mandy created"... but they're not just SAYING they're not doing these things, they're literally not doing them. But I guess just because they have a camera on them every once in a while they can't actually be what they claim to be.

Kane Knight
12-12-2003, 02:15 PM
:lol:

Nice attempt to twist my words.

You've got an axe to grind, and you're blinded by fanboy pride.

Kenny
12-12-2003, 02:27 PM
:lol:

Nice attempt to twist my words.

You've got an axe to grind, and you're blinded by fanboy pride.

I'm not blinded by shit... if Amy talked all of that "I'm going to represent myself in a better way" shit and then had her tits showing in Maxim Magazine I WOULD lose respect for her.

But man my penis would have more scabs then Freddy Kruger when I was done with those pics.

But anyway... bottom line...

The girl says she has respect for herself and doesn't appreciate the way certain female artists express themselves. (As far as being cock teases)

So far Amy hasn't really brought herself across in the way that those girls do.


And lastly.. ANY artist has to have some kind of self respect or self belief to be able to stand in front of crowds and live audiences... and perform. That takes guts. And also when you have a rack like Amy's you know she's being pressured by magazines to show 'em off and she hasn't. So that is "Self respect".

Elements
12-12-2003, 02:36 PM
Just a quick point. Not once have you mentioned that people like her for her music, implying that only the image matters.

Kane Knight
12-12-2003, 04:48 PM
Just a quick point. Not once have you mentioned that people like her for her music, implying that only the image matters.

Or that nobody disagrees over her music...

DaveWadding
12-12-2003, 05:03 PM
I find it fu</>cking hilarious how any time Ev is brought up here all that's talked about is AMY. I love Amy: her writing, her voice, her style but this topic was about Ben. whatev.

Elements
12-12-2003, 09:32 PM
Or that nobody disagrees over her music...


I bloody do. I don't get why they get the accolades when Within Temptation and Nightwish (and to some extent Lacuna Coil) have the same image, but provide much better quality material.

DaveWadding
12-12-2003, 09:34 PM
because they haven't had a single hit the mainstream like Bring Me To Life? I'm sure if they had a song of that well..magnitude, they'd hit it big too.

(BTW, BMTL drives me crazy, it's an overplayed POS now, and not even 15 different versions can make it good again)

Elements
12-12-2003, 10:06 PM
I don't dislike Ev. because they have hit the big time whereas these bands haven't, but because these bands should have. WT an Nightwish haven't had hit singles in the US. But that does not take away from the fact that they produce music on a much better level than Ev.

I mean come on, Dead boys Poem or Sleeping Sun > My Immortal
Over The Hills and Far Away or End Of All Hope > Bring Me To Life

Listen to them if you haven't already.

Kane Knight
12-12-2003, 10:09 PM
I bloody do. I don't get why they get the accolades when Within Temptation and Nightwish (and to some extent Lacuna Coil) have the same image, but provide much better quality material.

I'm still trying to figure out why people compare Lacuna Coil and Evanescence in the first place. there really isn't that strong a relationship between the two sounds. The similarities seem to be superficial at best, too.

I don't really contest their music. I enjoy it. I think fanboys go overboard, but you get that with almost any popular style of music. Course, the image is probably more important to a lot of people, but I wasn't arguing the music because I didn't see it as much of an issue. It's pop. You like it or you don't. Some people take it further and crusade over an image, and that's the only place I really take issue. I decided I liked the music before I knew what she looked like, and wasn't that impressed with her appearance. The music's cool.

As for why they have the mainstream but those other bands don't, it's mainly image and marketability. Mainstream hype is all a marketing tool. Bands like Linkin Park and Evanescences aren't put there because they're the hottest of their genres, but because they're the ones that can be milked.

Kenny
12-12-2003, 10:16 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why people compare Lacuna Coil and Evanescence in the first place. there really isn't that strong a relationship between the two sounds. The similarities seem to be superficial at best, too.

I don't really contest their music. I enjoy it. I think fanboys go overboard, but you get that with almost any popular style of music. Course, the image is probably more important to a lot of people, but I wasn't arguing the music because I didn't see it as much of an issue. It's pop. You like it or you don't. Some people take it further and crusade over an image, and that's the only place I really take issue. I decided I liked the music before I knew what she looked like, and wasn't that impressed with her appearance. The music's cool.

As for why they have the mainstream but those other bands don't, it's mainly image and marketability. Mainstream hype is all a marketing tool. Bands like Linkin Park and Evanescences aren't put there because they're the hottest of their genres, but because they're the ones that can be milked.

I'm not really too into the appearance of Evanescence. I think Amy Lee is a beautiful girl but I too didn't know what the band looked like. The first time I heard a sample of their music was during a DareDevil trailer before Final Destination 2 last February. The girl I was with told me she liked the girl from the band but I thought she said "It was an all girl band." I also thought that Paul McCoys parts were done by the lead singer of POD, cause it kinda sounded like him.

I didn't know shit, I was just really impressed with the little bit of chours I heard from the movie. I liked it cause it was something different.

I personally like Evanescence for their harder stuff like "One Last Breath" and "Whisper". It's an odd combination to have a girl with a soft, almost operah like voice... mixed with the guitar and bass beat in a lot of their songs. I like it because it's soft voice and lyrics expressed in a hard way.

At their concert Amy was screaming the lyrics, and usually when a girl screams her voice isn't half as good as it usually is but hers was beautiful... and that's what I like about the band. Amy could shave her head and have her boobs moved to her knee's for all I care.

I'm also into Linkin Park, once again not because of an image. If you listen to a song like "Don't Stay" from LP, then listen to a song like "One Last Breath" from EV... you'll see they're the same in many ways.

The guitar beats in the music are similar, but even more similar they're both considered rock groups, and both have earned a HUGE amount of respect for me because of their choice of lyrics. Evanescence is more poetic with emotion, where Linkin Park is more blunt and straight forward with emotion in their music.

So hey... you have your own opinion and so does everyone else. You don't think Amy Lee is hot, I do. You can say she's not hot, you can say you don't like the music... but don't tell me and other people why we think what we think. Because I think I know what and why I think a lot better than you do.

Elements
12-12-2003, 10:19 PM
I was only comparing them because everyone else does. I was merely trying to draw a parallel between female fronted rock bands as a point of reference.

Primarily because I was waiting for the "But those are different types of bands!!!!" When I mentioned a male fronted band

DaveWadding
12-12-2003, 10:28 PM
So hey... you have your own opinion and so does everyone else. You don't think Amy Lee is hot, I do. You can say she's not hot, you can say you don't like the music... but don't tell me and other people why we think what we think. Because I think I know what and why I think a lot better than you do.

The thing is you get all asshurt when someone says she's not hot and it makes you look stupid, as does comparing Ev to LP.

Kenny
12-12-2003, 10:36 PM
The thing is you get all asshurt when someone says she's not hot and it makes you look stupid, as does comparing Ev to LP.

If anyone would know when I get asshurt it would be you since you've been up my ass for the past week or so for reasons unknown to me.

A lot of people who like EV like LP too. And they DO have a lot of similarities. Some people have gone as far as to call Evanescence "Linkin Park with a female singer" or something along those lines. Which I don't agree with but songs like One Last Breath do sound somewhat similar to songs like Don't Stay.

There was a topic comparing the two over at your EVBoard, I guess they're all stupid too. Also if I remember correctly there's even a member by the name of "Parkenescene" or something along those lines.

This whole damn topic makes you look stupid so don't tell me about looking stupid. I'd get better results learning potty training habits from my dog than learning how not to look stupid from yourself.

Kane Knight
12-12-2003, 10:49 PM
So hey... you have your own opinion and so does everyone else. You don't think Amy Lee is hot, I do. You can say she's not hot, you can say you don't like the music... but don't tell me and other people why we think what we think. Because I think I know what and why I think a lot better than you do.

First off...I've already made it clear I like the music. You're just overzealous. Compared to you, I probably do look like a hater.

Second off, try practicing what you preach. Once again, you bitch about people telling you why you like the band, try not telling other people the same, whether it's why they like or hate a musician or the music they do. Yeah, that's pretty much you were doing on that internet hate site thread, and what you've done in this thread as well. You think you know why you like Evanescence, and it's unfair that I or anyone else should judge you on that...Oh, but it's different when you're judging someone else's reasons for liking or hating someone.

Kane Knight
12-12-2003, 10:58 PM
I was only comparing them because everyone else does. I was merely trying to draw a parallel between female fronted rock bands as a point of reference.

Primarily because I was waiting for the "But those are different types of bands!!!!" When I mentioned a male fronted band

Well, duh. They have a female front. They're nothing like their male fronted analogs. ;) Ev is closer to Linkin Park or one of those bands than to LC. They have the benefit of not containing scratching, and msotly being rap free, but are mostly similar (Moreso than different).

Female-Fronted music isn't much different than male-fronted music of the same style. but it does seem people are more likely to draw comparisons. My favorite is Melissa Ferrick being compared to Melissa Etheridge and Ani DiFranco. You know the only comparison there? They're all lesbians. Ferrick is a LITTLE similar to Etheridge, but NOTHING like DiFranco. Even then, Ferrick and Etheridge don't sound enough alike for any comparison...Until you know they're gay. Then, of course, it all becomes clear. :lol:

BTW, Evanescence is a cheap Stone Coyotes knock-off. Hey, they're both female-fronted. ;)

Jesus Shuttlesworth
12-13-2003, 02:42 AM
k Im a big homo thenlol

everyhourdylan
01-03-2004, 04:02 PM
ben moody was the band. its not gonna be the same in any way without him. they need to stop ripping off lacuna coil and go their own direction

DaveWadding
01-03-2004, 04:09 PM
:rofl: yeah..okay..Amy, Rocky, John, and Will were just decorations. Ben was the Whole F'n Show... :rofl:

I still fail to see how Evanescence "copy" Lacuna Coil. is it because they both have female leads? :lol:

everyhourdylan
01-03-2004, 04:20 PM
their entire style. fyi moody wrote the songs...the rest of the band is mediocre at best. amy and ben are the only things that stand out

el fregadero
01-03-2004, 04:22 PM
<font color=teal>Evanescence needs to stop copying Pat Benatar.</font>

el fregadero
01-03-2004, 04:22 PM
<font color=teal>And whoever sings that "I Love Rock'n'Roll" song.</font>

everyhourdylan
01-03-2004, 04:22 PM
and you need to stop loving little boys

DaveWadding
01-03-2004, 04:23 PM
fyi moody wrote the songs...
uh..no. Ben AND Amy CO-WROTE almost all the songs (I say almost because most of the older stuff was written by one or the other)

everyhourdylan
01-03-2004, 04:23 PM
singers are not musicians. and well their songs are easy and weak. they might sound good. but take away the programming and their sunk

el fregadero
01-03-2004, 04:27 PM
<font color=teal>And you need to relax.</font>

everyhourdylan
01-03-2004, 04:29 PM
ok evanescence without samples and keyboards/piano in the backgroud. what do you have. a generic band that would still be in their parents basement.

The Outlaw
01-03-2004, 06:59 PM
I'm sorry, check out the sig and tell me that's not hot. Consider it an online homosexuality test.

I do not find Orton or Cena hot in any way, shape, or form.

BlackRavyyn
01-04-2004, 01:09 AM
ok evanescence without samples and keyboards/piano in the backgroud. what do you have. a generic band that would still be in their parents basement.

<font color=seablue><i>Yes, and that's why they've sold several million copies of Fallen.... :roll:

They're not a generic band, they seem to have impressed people with their music. Sampling? What are you listening to? And if you've heard the demos or the acoustic versions of any of their songs - there is something there that I find interesting and obviously others have too.

I really find it frustrating when people think that so and so is a "generic band." They must have something to get this far, hmm?</i></font>

Kenny
01-04-2004, 02:04 AM
<font color=seablue><i>Yes, and that's why they've sold several million copies of Fallen.... :roll:

They're not a generic band, they seem to have impressed people with their music. Sampling? What are you listening to? And if you've heard the demos or the acoustic versions of any of their songs - there is something there that I find interesting and obviously others have too.

I really find it frustrating when people think that so and so is a "generic band." They must have something to get this far, hmm?</i></font>

Hey haven't you heard. Evanescene is popular now. It's cool to make assinine statements about how they're no good.

I went to the concert and it was by far the best concert I've ever been to. I'm not saying that cause I like the band. I've seen other bands I like. Evanescence just kicked ass.

Why? Heavy guitar, and Amy's ability to scream at the top of her lungs, still sound good, and just fu</>cking rock out.

everyhourdylan
01-04-2004, 08:12 AM
im not ripping. im planning on seeing them in febuary

Kenny
01-04-2004, 11:47 AM
im not ripping. im planning on seeing them in febuary

You're in for a treat. The concert was the perfect blend of a soft voice combined with in your face aggression which is why I think the band got so big. Amy has a voice you'd expect to hear in slower songs like My Immortal, then she takes that voice and throws intensity into it.

Also the crowd made the concert. Crowd surfing, people screaming, and I've been to a few concerts in my time but I've NEVER seen the crowd so in sync with the performers. I'd compare it to wrestling to be honest. Back in the days where Billy Gunn would say "And if you're not down with DeGeneration X, we GOT TWO WORDS FOR YA'!!!" and threw the mic up... that's what the concert was like.

Amy didn't even signal for the crowd to take over at some parts and they did anyway. There was a part in Going Under where she left the background vocals do the work, and the crowd jumped in shouting "GOING UUUUNDER"... I was like "Woo".

If I had to pick a word to describe it, and I couldn't use words like "Awesome"... I'd have to say "Intense". The guys in the back weren't waving their hands or anything so Amy gets on the mic and says "Come on get your fu</>cking hands in the air!!!"

That's what I like about the band. Amy comes across as passive at points but she's so confident and aggressive with who she is. SEXY! :heart:

Lamuella
01-04-2004, 12:56 PM
singers are not musicians.

excuse the fu</>ck out of me?

Singers are not musicians? Are you smoking feline laxatives again?

Are you saying that if you sing you're automatically not a musician? Guess Trent Reznor, Ben Folds, Tori Amos, Kristy Thirsk, Dave Gilmour, Roger Waters and Paul McCartney aren't musicians then.

One of my best friends has a master's degree in music and music throey. Her primary instrument? Voice.

everyhourdylan
01-04-2004, 12:57 PM
hey ****ass they play guitar/write songs/program/and or play piano. get your shit right.

Lamuella
01-04-2004, 01:33 PM
and amy lee plays piano and writes songs. Thank you for calling.

DaveWadding
01-04-2004, 03:58 PM
and amy lee plays piano and writes songs. Thank you for calling.
Thank you for playing...

everyhourdylan
01-04-2004, 06:21 PM
dont you feel gifted. theirs this thing with words and spelling in it...have you read it?

The Destroyer
01-04-2004, 06:23 PM
dont you feel gifted. theirs this thing with words and spelling in it...have you read it?
You apparently haven't.

Supreme Olajuwon
01-04-2004, 06:23 PM
you need a question mark after "gifted" and it's "there's"

everyhourdylan
01-04-2004, 06:23 PM
sad. i dont envy you.

Supreme Olajuwon
01-04-2004, 06:25 PM
that's fine. You're the one who likes Evanessence

The Destroyer
01-04-2004, 06:25 PM
sad. i dont envy you.
Oh well, if you really don't want to master the arts of punctuation and grammar...

everyhourdylan
01-04-2004, 06:35 PM
Oh well, if you really don't want to master the arts of punctuation and grammar...
i dont care.

Lamuella
01-04-2004, 06:36 PM
dont you feel gifted. theirs this thing with words and spelling in it...have you read it?

I'm sorry, I didn't understand this post. Could you rephrase?

The Destroyer
01-04-2004, 06:36 PM
How lovely for you then.

Lamuella
01-04-2004, 06:38 PM
hey, destroyer, did you understand his 'words and spelling' post? I'm just asking because I didn't get a word of it.

The Destroyer
01-04-2004, 06:47 PM
I made an educated guess at what it meant. :(

Lamuella
01-04-2004, 06:51 PM
so he was talking about... a dictionary? A book? A copy of Jugs magazine?

everyhourdylan
01-05-2004, 05:17 AM
a dictionary cumwad

Lamuella
01-05-2004, 08:56 AM
right, and... why am I meant to be looking at a dictionary?

I mean it can't be anything to do with your 'a singer isn't a musician' comment, considering that dictionary.com defines singer as a synonym for vocalist, and a vocalist as "A singer, or vocal musician, as opposed to an instrumentalist."

Kane Knight
01-05-2004, 09:24 PM
right, and... why am I meant to be looking at a dictionary?

I mean it can't be anything to do with your 'a singer isn't a musician' comment, considering that dictionary.com defines singer as a synonym for vocalist, and a vocalist as "A singer, or vocal musician, as opposed to an instrumentalist."

:lol:

I wonder, also, why a capella music would be considered music, when it's only voice...

You know, if I bought that whole "Singers are not musicians" line.

everyhourdylan
01-06-2004, 01:47 AM
popluar music asswhore.

Kane Knight
01-06-2004, 01:20 PM
popluar music asswhore.

Could you be a little more specific?

Lamuella
01-06-2004, 04:55 PM
popluar music asswhore.

so when chumbawamba performed 'the day the nazi died' and 'homophobia' they weren't playing music

so when Tori Amos did Me And A Gun, she wasn't performing music

so when Roy Bailey did 'only a pawn in their game' he wasn't performing music.

give it up

Lamuella
01-06-2004, 04:55 PM
guess the Flying Pickets and the King's Singers aren't music either

Lamuella
01-06-2004, 04:56 PM
I won't even mention the a capella version of Voodoo People I recorded with my friend Owen.

Lamuella
01-06-2004, 04:57 PM
I liked the asswhore line though

Kane Knight
01-06-2004, 05:14 PM
I won't even mention the a capella version of Voodoo People I recorded with my friend Owen.

Are you popular musicians?

Although I will point out that since boy bands are pretty far into pop, and many boy bands do a capella numbers and versions of their songs, even as far back as Boyz II Men...

But that's not relavent...Dickwad...:roll:

Lamuella
01-06-2004, 05:16 PM
typo, you meant to say popluar musicians.

and it's a piece of popluar music, anyway

(as far as popular, we're fairly well liked)

Kane Knight
01-06-2004, 05:21 PM
*Sings "the Lion Sleeps Tonight" ad naseum*

asphyXy
01-06-2004, 06:22 PM
<font color=969696>The last two minutes of Chance by Savatage: Not music?</font>

Kane Knight
01-06-2004, 06:42 PM
<font color=969696>The last two minutes of Chance by Savatage: Not music?</font>

Or the beginning of Bohemian Rhapsody (Queen), the end of "Rest In Peace" (Extreme), several tracks by BETTY and Moxy Früvous, Brian May's live version of '39...

everyhourdylan
01-07-2004, 12:59 AM
so when chumbawamba performed 'the day the nazi died' and 'homophobia' they weren't playing music

so when Tori Amos did Me And A Gun, she wasn't performing music

so when Roy Bailey did 'only a pawn in their game' he wasn't performing music.

give it up
classical music is pretty much the only thing thats not popular music.

Kane Knight
01-07-2004, 01:09 AM
classical music is pretty much the only thing thats not popular music.

Ummmm...What the fu</>ck do you smoke, anyways?

everyhourdylan
01-07-2004, 01:45 AM
you find something thats not popular music besides classical...well maybe bluegrass. but even thats pop to an extent.

Lamuella
01-07-2004, 11:16 AM
what exactly are you arguing at this point?

singers aren't musicians in popular music, which is all music except classical music.

so where do you stand on primarily vocal groups like the Flying Pickets? They don't have any instruments apart from their voices. Is what they produce 'music' in your eyes?

or have you become confused as to what you were arguing, like us?

everyhourdylan
01-07-2004, 11:22 AM
harmoney in vocals is music.

road doggy dogg
01-07-2004, 11:46 AM
LOL this tool makes ME look smart

Lamuella
01-07-2004, 11:57 AM
harmoney in vocals is music.

but... I thought you said singers weren't musicians. How can they make music if they aren't musicians?

me so confused.

everyhourdylan
01-07-2004, 12:46 PM
its hard to explain. it would take awhile for you to get where im comming from.

Lamuella
01-07-2004, 12:49 PM
it seems that way. Your point is fragmented and makes no sense.

who exactly are you saying isn't a musician?

everyhourdylan
01-07-2004, 01:03 PM
my opinion will be out later this year in paperback and hardcover forms. :naughty: :D
LOOK AT ME IM A DRUMMER :drool: :y:

Kane Knight
01-07-2004, 01:15 PM
LOL this tool makes ME look smart


This guy makes you look like a fu</>cking ROCKET SCIENTIST.

Kane Knight
01-07-2004, 01:21 PM
you find something thats not popular music besides classical...well maybe bluegrass. but even thats pop to an extent.

If you want to take a REALLY wide technical view of popular, someone likes EVERYTHING. But then, by your own logic, that would make Classical popular. "Omnia Mundi," for example, is a VERY popular classical piece. Classical music is generally pop music of days past. Mozart was the Lennon of his day, Bach the Elvis. Granted, being the bad boy of the music industry didn't mean as much of a change at that point, as Bach wasn't out there grinding his hips as he played his keyboard...

Bluegrass is a shit example, because the biggest seller in the US is COUNTRY music. Not Rap (Though it's an up-and comer), not rock, not heavy metal, not ska, punk, emo, folk, or whatever you can mention.

Kane Knight
01-07-2004, 01:23 PM
harmoney in vocals is music.

So we're talking in a giant circle here.

How about harmonic interplay between vocals and other instruments? And if it's not music, why does so much popular music revolve around the vox and lyrics and not the "music?"

everyhourdylan
01-07-2004, 01:41 PM
i prefer listen to the music over the vocals...vocals do make or brake a band but the truth is most singers out there cant hit a note if their lives depended on it. face facts. pop music vocalists suck. like RA. decent enough band but the vocals leave something to be desired. trapt now they just suck at music and coulnt write a good riff if it killed them. if your strictly going on vocals hitting notes and harmoney is a must.

Kane Knight
01-07-2004, 01:46 PM
i prefer listen to the music over the vocals...vocals do make or brake a band but the truth is most singers out there cant hit a note if their lives depended on it. face facts. pop music vocalists suck. like RA. decent enough band but the vocals leave something to be desired. trapt now they just suck at music and coulnt write a good riff if it killed them. if your strictly going on vocals hitting notes and harmoney is a must.

So you prefer the music, and THAT makes vocalists not musicians? Lovely argument there, chief. :y:

:roll:

By the way, the vox for Ra are awesome. You can complain, but I've heard yoru band's vocalist, so I'd say that those who live in shit houses shouldn't cry about another's smell...

Kane Knight
01-07-2004, 01:49 PM
By the way, it's "harmony."

Seeing as how it's central to your argument, and you seem like you're going to be using it a lot, you might as well know how to spell it.

Lamuella
01-07-2004, 03:13 PM
also, there are pop music vocalists out there with greater range and power to their voices than the vast majority of opera singers. Listen to someone like Kristy Thirsk or Tori Amos and tell me they don't have technically astonishing voices. Hell, listen to Ruben Studdard and tell me he hasn't got a beautiful rich voice.

Kane Knight
01-07-2004, 05:15 PM
Freddie Mercury. Great pop vocalist who had classical/operatic training and a huge vocal range.

Joyrider
01-07-2004, 05:44 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38445000/jpg/_38445823_moody_try300x180as.jpg

Lewis Moody is the man though, here he is scoring agains't New Zealand

everyhourdylan
01-07-2004, 06:41 PM
ra dosent have a good singer. tori amos plays piano. therefore she is much more than just a singer.

Kane Knight
01-07-2004, 10:06 PM
ra dosent have a good singer. tori amos plays piano. therefore she is much more than just a singer.

And Ra's singer does more than just vocals.

everyhourdylan
01-08-2004, 06:08 AM
what play bad guitar parts?
im looking at the drumming when i judge a band.

Lamuella
01-08-2004, 09:12 AM
ra dosent have a good singer. tori amos plays piano. therefore she is much more than just a singer.

you might as well say 'tori amos sings, therefore she is much more than just a pianist'

her songs 'me and a gun' and 'wampum prayer' are a capella. They are amongst the best things she has ever done.

Yes, she is a truly excellent piano player, but she is also a truly, truly EXCELLENT singer. She has an incredible, well trained voice with an astonishing range, tone and quality. THis is not invalidated by the fact that she happens to play the piano.

Lamuella
01-08-2004, 09:12 AM
what play bad guitar parts?
im looking at the drumming when i judge a band.

pah. Drummers aren't musicians. They just hit things.

Kane Knight
01-08-2004, 01:19 PM
what play bad guitar parts?
im looking at the drumming when i judge a band.

yes, I'm sure you do. I'm sure that's the only part of a band that counts as "music," too.

Seriously, when your band learns to play, I'll take your criticism of other music a little more seriously. Til then. :lol:

Sephiroth
01-08-2004, 02:32 PM
Dude i think your right, i saw it somewhere Evanescene is on the 3rd place with their cd in the charts :y:, they where on 10th place and now they are on the 3rd :D

Kane Knight
01-08-2004, 02:39 PM
Dude i think your right, i saw it somewhere Evanescene is on the 3rd place with their cd in the charts :y:, they where on 10th place and now they are on the 3rd :D

Wouldn't be surprised. Take some poppy metal, throw in a pair of tits, and you've got a Smash Hit.

Sephiroth
01-08-2004, 03:08 PM
Wouldn't be surprised. Take some poppy metal, throw in a pair of tits, and you've got a Smash Hit.

Your right look at Britney (slut) Spears and Christina (X) Aguilera

Kane Knight
01-08-2004, 03:18 PM
Your right look at Britney (slut) Spears and Christina (X) Aguilera

now cross them with Linkin Park, and BAM! You have Evanescence's success.

everyhourdylan
01-08-2004, 04:33 PM
you might as well say 'tori amos sings, therefore she is much more than just a pianist'

her songs 'me and a gun' and 'wampum prayer' are a capella. They are amongst the best things she has ever done.

Yes, she is a truly excellent piano player, but she is also a truly, truly EXCELLENT singer. She has an incredible, well trained voice with an astonishing range, tone and quality. THis is not invalidated by the fact that she happens to play the piano.
and this brings us back to harmoney.

everyhourdylan
01-08-2004, 04:34 PM
yes, I'm sure you do. I'm sure that's the only part of a band that counts as "music," too.

Seriously, when your band learns to play, I'll take your criticism of other music a little more seriously. Til then. :lol:
ive yet to see your bitch ass post your music. therefore **** off and i dont care. anything you say will never be taken into account as far as im concerned.

Kane Knight
01-08-2004, 05:21 PM
ive yet to see your bitch ass post your music. therefore **** off and i dont care. anything you say will never be taken into account as far as im concerned.

Because I'd rather not post half-assed demos, I don't post music on here. Is it that hard a concept to grasp? To you, it must be. Your music is absolute shit and you cry when people don't call you God. Those of us who don't want to sound as pathetic and talentless as you don't bother unless we have something professional worth putting up.

Lamuella
01-08-2004, 05:30 PM
and this brings us back to harmoney.

how does it bring us back to harmony when she's a solo artist who performs without backup singers?

everyhourdylan
01-08-2004, 05:43 PM
she can harmonise with herself. hitting the proper notes

Lamuella
01-08-2004, 05:46 PM
she can harmonize with herself?

unless she can sing two notes at the same time (and the human throat isn't capable of such a feat) I don't know how she could harmonize with herself

everyhourdylan
01-08-2004, 05:47 PM
this is quite possible with the right equitment

Lamuella
01-08-2004, 05:49 PM
you could RECORD yourself harmonizing with yourself (and indeed Tori does on most of the songs in Boys For Pele), but I still fail to see how you could sing more than one note at the same time.

everyhourdylan
01-08-2004, 05:49 PM
vocal processors

Lamuella
01-08-2004, 05:51 PM
I have no idea what you're talking about right now.

everyhourdylan
01-08-2004, 05:52 PM
i dont even sing and ive used one. come on. you dont know what a voice processor is?

Kane Knight
01-08-2004, 06:00 PM
vocal processors

Except that vocal effects processors are setting up a computer to perform harmonically with you. You're still not singing more than one note at a time.

everyhourdylan
01-08-2004, 06:01 PM
actually you could be when used right.

Kane Knight
01-08-2004, 06:14 PM
actually you could be when used right.

No, because your vocal chords only produce one note at a time. You can SIMULATE harmony through recordings or synthesis, but you're only singing one note.

If you're still having trouble with the concept, I can speak slower and with smaller words.

everyhourdylan
01-08-2004, 08:28 PM
please do...jackass.

everyhourdylan
01-08-2004, 08:28 PM
you do realize this only goes on because i love being a prick to your bitchass

Kane Knight
01-08-2004, 09:32 PM
you do realize this only goes on because i love being a prick to your bitchass

More like because you're too stupid to know when to quit.

everyhourdylan
01-09-2004, 03:25 AM
actually thats quite untrue

Kenny
01-09-2004, 05:11 AM
actually thats quite untrue

For the sake of the bandwidth of TPWW, please don't start an arguement with Kane Knight. It's like trying to tell a 5 year old there is no Santa.

everyhourdylan
01-09-2004, 05:48 AM
kanes a ****ing douche. ive been comming to this messageboard under various names for years...

DaveWadding
01-09-2004, 08:54 AM
The last two posters in this thread are both douches :naughty:

Kenny
01-09-2004, 09:09 AM
The last two posters in this thread are both douches :naughty:

You know I almost felt sorry for you when people made fun of your chubby little ass.

*Grabs your boobs*

everyhourdylan
01-09-2004, 09:17 AM
i liked it...

Lamuella
01-09-2004, 10:51 AM
I know what a vocal processor is. I don't have any idea what that has to do with the inability of the human throat to sing two notes at the same time.

Trying to think of what you COULD mean, I've only been able to come across two ways you could simulate the effect of solo harmonization live.

1) pre-record one vocal track. Bad idea because you could get out of time with yourself. Some people still do it though.
2) artificially raise or lower the pitch of the voice singing, and play the doctored and original vocals at the same time. Usually sounds really horrible. The only time I can think of that I've heard it working really well live was Jarvis Cocker of Pulp performing 'party hard' at Glastonbury 1998.

don't get me wrong, for more than one vocalist, good harmony is essential. However, for a quality solo artist, synthesized harmony sounds bloody awful.

Kane Knight
01-09-2004, 12:36 PM
actually thats quite untrue

Yes, I believe you. Simply because you said it's not so, means it's not so. :lol:

Kane Knight
01-09-2004, 12:47 PM
I know what a vocal processor is. I don't have any idea what that has to do with the inability of the human throat to sing two notes at the same time.

Trying to think of what you COULD mean, I've only been able to come across two ways you could simulate the effect of solo harmonization live.

1) pre-record one vocal track. Bad idea because you could get out of time with yourself. Some people still do it though.
2) artificially raise or lower the pitch of the voice singing, and play the doctored and original vocals at the same time. Usually sounds really horrible. The only time I can think of that I've heard it working really well live was Jarvis Cocker of Pulp performing 'party hard' at Glastonbury 1998.

don't get me wrong, for more than one vocalist, good harmony is essential. However, for a quality solo artist, synthesized harmony sounds bloody awful.

If you spend enough money, you can get a machine that will harmonize with everything you do, and it'll sound like 4 of you in perfect harmony. In fact, people who know how to sing harmony without a machine dislike the synthetics.

Granted, everyhourdylan's shown that he has no concept of what a good vocalist by giving us a link to his band. It's pretty obvious that he doesn't really understand a vocal processor beyond "It maekz k3w1 n0YZ."

The worst part is that most vocal processors, whether purchased for effects or synthetic harmony, blow. I use bass pedals for my vocal effects, personally. Nothing like Chorus, but I use Fuzz and Flange.

A lot of big groups that do vocal processing live have a couple laptops backstage doing the processing. This includes most form of vocal processing, except the standards, like reverb.

They've got some really cool programs for effectively altering vocals and pitch, but it's still mostly for people who want 4-part vocals and lack an ear for harmony.

everyhourdylan
01-09-2004, 01:48 PM
i know much more than you think i know...hate to break it to you...ive been doing this for years.

Kane Knight
01-09-2004, 01:56 PM
I'm sure you have. And you're proving how much you know by offering up erroneous, false, and stupid information.

Good plan, chief.

Crying when someone calls you a moron when you demonstrate yourself as one.

All that knowledge of vocal processors, and you can't even use one to make your vocalist sound like he knows how to sing. Good demo. :y:

everyhourdylan
01-09-2004, 02:09 PM
um yeah what ever you say.

Lamuella
01-09-2004, 02:43 PM
if you've been working with vocal processors for years, then surely you know that a great voice sounds MUCH better unprocessed than processed. You'd also know that all the technical wizardry in the world means nothing if there isn't a voice to work with.

You'd also know that a singer is as much a musician as someone who makes their music with an instrument.

Kane Knight
01-09-2004, 02:48 PM
if you've been working with vocal processors for years, then surely you know that a great voice sounds MUCH better unprocessed than processed. You'd also know that all the technical wizardry in the world means nothing if there isn't a voice to work with.

You'd also know that a singer is as much a musician as someone who makes their music with an instrument.

Oh, but he knows more than you think. :lol:

Kane Knight
01-09-2004, 02:49 PM
Of course, it would require he had some understanding of the human voice, and listening to his demos, he's pretty clearly clueless...

everyhourdylan
01-09-2004, 03:11 PM
yeah because your always right!

Kane Knight
01-09-2004, 03:12 PM
yeah because your always right!

It must be hard to have to pull that card when you're clueless on the subject upon which you speak.

Tranny
01-20-2004, 03:04 PM
Okay, im confused. Someone told me Amy and Ben Moody are or were married...true?

DaveWadding
01-20-2004, 11:25 PM
neither. They were engaged at one point, I think. But not even that can be confirmed/denied except by Ben/Amy and maybe their families.

Tranny
01-21-2004, 03:36 PM
Oh...damn people.

And now she's with some guy from seether, right?

DaveWadding
01-21-2004, 05:34 PM
Yeah, Shaun Morgan.

I will admit that I am mad jealous.