So, Samoa Joe vs Kurt Angle at Genesis.

[D Mac]

Gimme your thoughts about whats gonna happen and who will win.

[Mr. JL]

TNA will find a way to fuck it up somehow. Those are honestly my first thoughts about the match-up.

[Jordan]

It will probably be the match of the year. Joe will win.

[CSL]

<font color=white>No contest.</font>

[redoneja]

Probably be a good match up until the clusterfuck ending that leaves the fans going "WTF?" since TNA can't properly build up to a match between these two that would have a clean ending.

[redoneja]

And I would much much rather see this match take place in RoH than TNA. But that's just me.

[The Naitch]

Kurt Angle will probably die in this match

[ron the dial]

I think it's going to be a solid match (just look at who's in it), but TNA isn't going to know how to book the end of the match. They need to protect Joe's streak while making Angle look fucking awesome, so I'm sure that it will come to a no contest. How they go about getting that ending I couldn't hazard a guess. Some half baked idea, no doubt.

[D Mac]

Interference by somebody? Christian Cage?

[KingofOldSchool]

Draw.

Both men will die mid-match.

Joe, from exhaustion, thus shutting down Angle's claim the WWE's schedule caused Eddie to die from exhaustion and that Dixie Carter wouldn't let that happen to one of her wrestlers.

Angle's head will pop off.

[The Naitch]

pop goes the weasel

[The Naitch]

Interference by somebody? Grim Reaper?

[Favre4Ever]

Since everybody is saying that its gonna be a shitty draw ending, which it probably will be, ill say Kurt Angle wins.

[Fox]

Angle and Joe go to a draw, giving Joe his first draw and making Kurt look superior since no one else has been able to go to a time limit draw with the Samoan Submission Machine.

They stay away from each other until next year's Bound For Glory where they have it out in a 60 minute iron man match.

[ron the dial]

What is the time limit in TNA? Thirty minutes?

[Tornado]

Wow, way to early for this match. Way to blow your load on this one TNA.

[Blitz]

Yeah, time limit draw would be ideal.

[Lock Jaw]

It has to either end in a draw, some sort of lame overbooked trick ending, or Joe winning.

Angle cannot win. If he does, TNA is stupid.

[Caged Heat18]

Angel can't lose, and they shouldn't end Joe's undefeated record either. It has to be a no contest, which will piss people off, which is why they should have waited to have this match instead of rush it.

[M-A-G]

What's wrong with Angle losing? Hell, what's wrong with putting this match off until later?

[Stickman]

Maybe a draw but not via interferance, have it go to a time limit draw, have whomever is the gm or whtaever they call it come out and say that this match will continue for another 15 minutes. And then keep it as a Time limit draw after that.

Or to add spice to it, have a guy get the pin at the TL moment but have the bell ring before the 3 count. Have them go for the next 15 minutes and same thing at the end of that.

I really do suck at coming up with storyline ideas.

[ron the dial]

Well, if Angle loses he looks like a chump. Sure, he's losing to TNA's future No. 1 guy, but he's Kurt Freakin' Angle. He can't come in and lose his first match.

And they can't put the match off until later because apparently Kurt's going to die. At least I think I heard that.

[M-A-G]

Well, props to TNA for totally getting themselves in a 'we're f***ed' situation quicker than any promotion known to man. But if Kurt's allegedly going to die or whatever, then why would he need to go over?

[St. Jimmy]

10 bucks says Kurt gets another injury. (Botched musclebuster)

[Shadow]

They end up taking dives off something high after putting on a wrestling clinic the likes of which we shall never see again in our lifetimes. They contiue having matches where neither one of 'em can get the pin until Lethal Lockdown where they settle this in the Six Sides of Steel.

[Lara Emily]

Jarrett interfears and because he cares so much about the company beats the shit out of both of them.

[hb2k]

Angle wins in a long match that elevates Joe the way the Rumble match with Benoit had him coming out a bigger star.

Angle goes on to beat Sting for the title, and Joe chases, eventually building to a rematch where Joe, in order to win the world heavyweight title, has to beat the only man that holds a victory over him.

If Angle comes in and loses, he's just another guy. It elevates no-one. Maintain Angle's status, bring Joe up through association, EVENTUALLY have Joe get the big win in front of a bigger audience.

[Nervous Ferret]

Spoiler warning mate!!! We Aussies don't get Thursday till next Tuesday mate OI OI OI :lol::lol::lol:

[Mercury Bullet]

They end up taking dives off something high after putting on a wrestling clinic the likes of which we shall never see again in our lifetimes.

And the match gets stopped by refs and/or 'medical' personnel. Shortly afterwards, both are distracted into other feuds, one leading to the world title for Samoa Joe. Joe goes on to say how he's unbeaten and squashed everyone when...out comes Angle to remind him that their match never really ended. And then we have Joe vs. Angle II for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship which will be won by Joe, they shake hands, Angle retires and does a few MMA matches in which he beats a few bums and then gets KO'd by a big star for alot of money and then is never seen again.

[.44 Magdalene]

Angle wins in a long match that elevates Joe the way the Rumble match with Benoit had him coming out a bigger star.

You realize that there's no way in Hell Angle winning is going to elevate Joe, right? Un-de-feat-ed-streak. Joe is the hugest thing in TNA right now. He is number one. He is, inarguably, the most unstoppable creature to romp a ring with that many fucking sides. If Angle kills his undefeated streak--if Angle wins--that means Angle is better, and that kills everything Joe has. The whole point of Samoa Joe is that he doesn't lose. That's why he's undefeated, to fucking prove that. If Angle beats him...no matter how damn good the match is, no matter how well Joe wrestles it...if Angle wins, then Joe's streak is over, and he lost it to a guy that didn't need to have his skill proven. We know Angle's good. That's why TNA can't wait to unzip and shoot this fued everywhere.

Neither of these men need to come out the bigger star. Angle's already established as being a massive bad ass. Joe is already established as a massive undefeated bad ass. If Angle loses, it takes the wind out of his Recent Show Jump sails. If Joe loses, his streak and all the build up he's had so far--which is alot--will be wasted on someone who doesn't need it. Neither of these men can lose or something gets hugely fucked. The only possible outcome is a draw, or somebody cancelling this match. Either way, someone's gonna be pissed.

[Crippla]

They will probably get Kurt over in TNA by having him defeat Joe.

[.44 Magdalene]

If Joe loses, I riot.

[Favre4Ever]

What do you mean theres no way Angle winning is going to elevate joe? Joe COMPETING against Kurt Angle is elevation in of itself. And if Angle ends his streak, its no bummer. People would say " Samoa Joe's only been beaten once.....and that was by Kurt Angle." Stop making Joe seem like Goldberg. Nobody doesn't lose.

[Londoner]

I can see JJ costing Joe this match/his undefeated streak for some reason. Either that or they could play the Angle injury card. By that i mean, since he is so injury prone, use it to their advantage in order to get both guys over, during the match after Joe hits a powerful move on Angle on his neck(whatever the move maybe) have Angle scream in agony so much and that they have to stop the match. I could see that happening, actually. It would seem real to!

[Mercury Bullet]

Nobody doesn't lose.

Oh i could see TNA pushing Joe to the moon and beyond. I would say its entirely possibly he NEVER loses.

NEVER.

[hb2k]

As much as The Critic has a good point, Joe is only established to however many people 0.8 is. Angle is known by a far better number, and if this is promoted right, you're hoping, or at least should be, to exposing more people to Joe on Pay-Per-View. Really, this has match of the year potential, and Samoa Joe hanging with Kurt Angle and looking as good as him can make him look better coming out of it. If more people get this show, they'll go in knowing Kurt Angle and knowing of that Samoa Joe guy, but you have a chance to create a star. Because as much as I like Joe, I'll be honest, his push to the top has sucked so far, this feud is the first great thing to happen to it.

I'm looking at it the way Joe/Kobashi worked out. Kobashi won and beat the guy who is the man to the ROH audience. Did it hurt him at all? Absolutely not, his stock was raised for hanging at a level that is above and beyond the rest of the company. Kurt Angle is a significantly bigger star than anybody in TNA, with absolutely no exception. A win and a loss doesn't have to mean the winner gains and the loser loses. It's all in the presentation. If your looking at it like, "Well Joe clearly can't hang, his streak means nothing, all hail Kurt Angle", then sure. but if you look at it like Kurt Angle is an Olympic Gold medallist who is arguably the best in the entire world, and Samoa Joe, the undefeated badass and Angle went through one of the greatest wars ever, and it took everything this legendary and established wrestler had to JUST barely get the win, and then sell them both laying out for five minutes, that would mean more than this entire undefeated streak does right now.

[.44 Magdalene]

What do you mean theres no way Angle winning is going to elevate joe? Joe COMPETING against Kurt Angle is elevation in of itself. And if Angle ends his streak, its no bummer. People would say " Samoa Joe's only been beaten once.....and that was by Kurt Angle." Stop making Joe seem like Goldberg. Nobody doesn't lose.

You realize that TNA doesn't operate under the assumption that WWE is automatically better than them? If Kurt Angle comes in fresh from Vince's company and in his first match ends the what, 16 month undefeated streak of TNA's apparently top star, that basically lays down and admits to markdom that WWE breeds harder, better stars than TNA, and makes TNA as a whole look like a bunch of pussies.

One WWE Guy > Samoa Joe > Whole TNA Roster.

Yeah, he's Kurt Angle, and Kurt Angle's not just "another WWE guy"...but that's why he doesn't need to win this match. Kurt Angle does not NEED to be elevated. He doesn't NEED to end Joe's streak. Save the streak killer for somebody that legitimately needs to be protrayed as a threat. We know Angle's a threat, he's god damn Kurt Angle. There's no fucking point in wasting this undefeated streak on Angle, all that would do is blow the load even harder than it already is. If it ends in a draw, Angle proves he can still go, and Joe proves he can keep up with one of WWE's best, and everybody wins. There's really not much else of a way around this. You either weaken Kurt or you weaken Joe, and weakening Joe means weakening TNA itself.

Remember how people bitched that the only real dominant force on ECW was Big Show, a guy that had just rolled off of WWE? How that made ECW's roster look weak? Same scenario. Making Kurt Angle absolutely, definitively better than Joe means the guy that just rolled off WWE--no matter how great he may be, still a fully developed WWE guy--is better than TNA's whole roster. We don't need to make Angle look better than Joe, nor does Joe need to look better than Angle. Nobody needs the clean win here. It's a fucked situation and if either man picks up a legit win, shit gets ruined.

And what the fuck do you mean, stop making Joe look like Goldberg? He's been undefeated for over a year now. They hype it up every time Joe comes out. Fuck, it's part of his nickname now. No, Joe doesn't lose. It sounds like Goldberg to you because it's the same damn concept. He's undefeated, for a ludicrous amount of time. Goldberg jobbed to Nash and it was considered a huge mistake--even though it was by cheating or whatever, it was still a huge mistake not to make the big streak ending match against somebody who needed a boost up the ladder. This is the same damn boat. If Joe's streak gets killed by somebody who doesn't need it, then it's a waste. They spent 16 months building up this streak. Don't blow it on Kurt Angle, who's already at the top of the game and has no need to prove he's good.

[Dorkchop]

This is the TNA booking form of premature ejaculation.

[Favre4Ever]

Didn't mean to piss you off if thats the emotion that inspired that speech. I know that nobody needs to win this match, but in fact, this match doesn't even need to happen right now. But the match is here, the oppourtunity is here, and you want to blow it with a draw ending? I would be furious if i got Genesis and watched them go to a no contest, no matter how good the match was.

[Londoner]

^^ But if they played it the way I suggested and make it seem as though Angle is injured during the match they might get away with it, could also give Angle more time to rest.

[.44 Magdalene]

That's some pretty amazing short term booking there, champ. If it ends in a no contest, it lets them pick up the rivalry and go at it again later--if months down the line they get into it again and it results in another no contest, then you have some serious tension between these two men, especially if Joe's still undefeated at that point. Kurt may be great, but it'd be retarded to dump all of TNA's stock into him simultaneously--don't have him kill Joe's streak, just prove that he's on par with Joe for later. If either man gets a definitive win, then you have just blown the opportunity this match presented. If it ends in a no contest, though, then you have a great match with both men looking like gold. If this match has no definitive ending, then it's not over--it's just the start of something bigger. If Angle does win, he not only proves he's better than Joe, but ends Joe's streak and thus kills two potential highlights of TNA with one fell swoop--in a match that, again, doesn't need to happen in the first place. Just because you want immediate pay off doesn't mean Joe's sixteen months of build up needs to be blown on somebody who doesn't need it.

[.44 Magdalene]

^^ But if they played it the way I suggested and make it seem as though Angle is injured during the match they might get away with it, could also give Angle more time to rest.

Right. I think somebody mentioned earlier that they could play it off like one of Kurt's real injuries, possibly his neck, is thrown out by something in the match--maybe a particularly savage Muscle Buster. Then Kurt still looks strong, Joe maintains his streak, and the rivalry is still maintained for later when Kurt "feels better."

[Londoner]

Don't think anyone but me suggested it actually was looking to see if someone said that but didn't see anyone say it. It could work though, have them feud again when Joe's undefeated streak is ended by someone who's from TNA and not WWE.

[.44 Magdalene]

Yeah, it might have just been you that said it. Lol. I don't always look at who's posting.

[Tb1]

Angle def. Joe

I hate undefeated streaks

[Londoner]

Why do you hate undefeated streaks? If they're against useless jobbers I hate them but Joe's undefeated streak is one i've been impressed with.

[Tb1]

Well I like being suprised, in the match and in the finish. I feel like an undefeated streak takes that away, regardless of the positive impact it might have.

[Favre4Ever]

the problem with your "no contest finish" is that EVERYONE knows its going to happen. In fact, its almost something a WWE writer would think of. Its like the Edge vs. Matt Hardy ladder match, or any match where Kane has stipulations against him. And the Angle vs. Joe story can still continue and draw the same amount of attention if somebody wins it.

Making this match a draw would be a shortcut to continue the feud, and one of the most overused in the entire business.

[Londoner]

Well I like being suprised, in the match and in the finish. I feel like an undefeated streak takes that away, regardless of the positive impact it might have.


Well, don't you think the surprise of an undefeated streak is not knowing when it will end? The suspense builds up everytime the wrestler wins and the surprise is greater when it ends imo, it also helps to get someone else on the roster over. This only works if you don't over do undefeated streaks though.

[Tb1]

I actually never said a "No Contest" finish. I just hate knowing who's going to win.

[Tb1]

Well I like being suprised, in the match and in the finish. I feel like an undefeated streak takes that away, regardless of the positive impact it might have.


Well, don't you think the surprise of an undefeated streak is not knowing when it will end? The suspense builds up everytime the wrestler wins and the surprise is greater when it ends imo, it also helps to get someone else on the roster over. This only works if you don't over do undefeated streaks though.

I wouldn't mind a short undefeated streak. But once you get past oh, 6 months, I just lose intrest. And IMO an 18 month undefeated streak is far too long.

[Londoner]

Fair enough. I just think Joe's undefeated streak is unique and entertaining.

[Favre4Ever]

I think so too. But when you have a match with two guys like Angle and Joe, having neither of them win for the sake of keeping either gimmick alive seems like the easy way out to me.

[.44 Magdalene]

Then have Angle lose via the injuries, like TL said. Whether you like Joe's streak or not, having Angle end it the second he rolls in would be utterly retarded.

[Fox]

the problem with your "no contest finish" is that EVERYONE knows its going to happen. In fact, its almost something a WWE writer would think of. Its like the Edge vs. Matt Hardy ladder match, or any match where Kane has stipulations against him. And the Angle vs. Joe story can still continue and draw the same amount of attention if somebody wins it.

Making this match a draw would be a shortcut to continue the feud, and one of the most overused in the entire business.


Really? Cause last time I checked, nobody had a clue how this Joe/Angle match is going to end.

And when's the last time you saw a draw-match that leaded to a big time feud? Hell, I can't remember the last PPV match I saw that ended in a draw that made both men look like stars. I don't think it's really happened in the last decade, which only makes the time limit draw ending for the Joe/Angle match that much more appealing. It's OLD SCHOOL, son.

[Fox]

Then have Angle lose via the injuries, like TL said. Whether you like Joe's streak or not, having Angle end it the second he rolls in would be utterly retarded.


But then all of the promos and the reputation are for nill. They've been trying to remind fans that Kurt Angle is not a broken down human being, but an Olympic champion and a star in the prime of his career.

Then he gets into the ring, first match in TNA, and goes out with an injury? That makes Kurt Angle look like a pussy.


Here's the only way I think it could work:

-Joe and Angle go at it in the main event of Genesis. They have a sickening match with tons of huge spots, until finally Joe loses it and grabs a steel chair and cracks it off Angle's skull. He drops Kurt with a couple of Musclebusters on the chair, the match gets called a no contest, and walks out of Genesis as a big time heel. TNA fans may have a hard on for Samoa Joe, but if he became the man who killed Kurt Angle on his first night in TNA, he might get over as a huge heel.

-Send Joe into a feud with Sting over the NWA Championship, which he eventually wins.

-Kurt Angle returns to fight his way back toward an NWA Title shot, which he recieves at Bound For Glory, finally ending the title reign AND the undefeated streak of Samoa Joe.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Time limit draw, or Joe winning are the only ways to go.

Anything else makes Joe look weak... Especially to someone who's basically a WWE guy.

[Dorkchop]

I think the Yet-ay will make a run in.

[Londoner]

I think so too. But when you have a match with two guys like Angle and Joe, having neither of them win for the sake of keeping either gimmick alive seems like the easy way out to me.


Sometimes the easy way out is the best way....

[D Mac]

Angle def. Joe

I hate undefeated streaks


They will probably get Kurt over in TNA by having him defeat Joe.


Well looks like you two are the only ones that called it.

[D Mac]

If Joe loses, I riot.


Riot Time!