Let's discuss Hardcore Holly.

[Stickman]

He's terrible and adds nothing to ECW. Watched the Test/Hardcore match the other day and it was crap. How it went as long as it did is beyond me. Hardcore Holly must give Vince amazing deepthroats. Vince doesn't like ECW yet thinks Holly is moderately ok? He's an idiot. I know this will turn into a flame Vince thread, but what are your thoughts on Holly?

[Avenger]

I think he is a good wrestler with a roughneck old school style. There's not enough of those guys left. They're all going to turn into total pussies like guys like Miz if he leaves.

[Dave Youell]

Holly on the IWC tends to go up and down in opinion.

I've gained more respect for him after that RVD/Holly match recently, he fits the ECW brand with his hard hitting style.

However, he did used to get called sparkplug and beat the shite out of Matt from TE for no particular reason

[Avenger]

lol :y:

[Savio]

Fuck Holly (compton?)

[AJHayes]

I'm a total Holly mark. Even back when he was Sparky Plugg (I was about 12, it was kind of cool then.... not really.... *sob*) But, regardless, he is a good wrestler who definately knows how to put on a show.

Like previously stated, there just isn't enough of that old school, hard hitting mentality left in wrestling. It's how I got "broke" in to my first fed.

[Bad Company]

Holly is a good worker, is over, and has a history with the company. While he might rough a few newbies up, that's the way people have always been in the industry.
He is an excellent mid carder, and someone the WWE should be using to get the talant over.

[Caged Heat18]

I was never really a big fan of him, but since he came to ECW I really have enjoyed him. His match with RVD was great, and he seems to be fitting in well there.

[Stickman]

wow. I'm really surprised by the responses. I dont' deny that he does have the old school style, but I find him to be sloppy and unco-ordinated. He just looks really awkward when he wrestles.

[Mr. Aristocrat]

Holly is the mang.

[Skippord]

Hes a dickhead but I've been enjoying him in ECW

other than that he totally sucks a chode tho

[DominateR]

He was AWESOME in his match with RVD...but that cut from the table must've hurt like a muthafucka...:-\ :(

[Dorkchop]

He did have a great match against RVD. He also had a terrible match with test last week.

I've never really enjoyed Hardcore Holly. Maybe a little with Crash and Molly.

[El Fangel]

He was AWESOME in his match with RVD...but that cut from the table must've hurt like a muthafucka...:-\ :(

How many times would a 12 inch gash across your back, not hurt like a motherfucker.

[Crippla]

I think he's a good fit in ECW. I've never been a big Holly fan but he's doing alright, that match with RVD was fucking great.

[Dorkchop]

I think he's a good fit in ECW. I've never been a big Holly fan but he's doing alright, that match with RVD was fucking great.

Yeah, but his match with Test was god awful. It was even worse because that match dragged on too.

[Fox]

Hardcore Holly is an above average worker who has always been saddled with far below average gimmicks.

A fucking race car driver? Named "Sparky Plugg"? Yeah. Fuck that.

"Hardcore" Holly sounds like a fucking porn star's name, which automatically keeps people from taking him seriously.

He's got a limited moveset with hardly anything recognizable as a signature move. He's never had any big wins or big matches, and anytime he's had one, he loses it and looks like a chump (Lesnar vs. Holly, anyone?).

The guy does seem like a legitimate bad ass when you see him on the camera and when he cuts a promo, but he has never, ever, ever backed it up in the ring. That's not to say he couldn't be booked that way, but he simply hasn't been. Ever.

Hardcore Holly is just one of those guys who has some credibility and memorability with the fans, but he's mostly just used to put other people over.



Although I did really enjoy him when he was teamed up with Crash and they won the Tag Titles, mostly because Hardcore Holly being an asshole = gold.

[Vastardikai]

Bob is a solid worker. He is rough with some of the kids, but honestly, I think a woodshed incident for the guys fresh out of OVW who think they're on the fast track to success isn't necessarily a bad thing. Who knows, maybe it'd prevent some of these out of control ego problems (see Batista, Dave; Orton, Randy). I'll agree Matt and maybe Rene didn't deserve what they got, but it's part of the business, for better or worse. Moreso than some guy sitting behind a keyboard bitching about a Bob Holly stiffing and possibly hurting a kid.

God, I feel dirty now after defending Bob Holly. I need a shower.

[KingofOldSchool]

I don't like Holly, but he isn't even close to being the worst wrestler of all time.

[Funky Fly]

Bob Holly is a dick.

[D Mac]

Personally, I think he's doing a decent job, as the guy can work and he seems to get decent heel reactions...

Ugh forget it :shifty:

[Mr. Aristocrat]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/Bob_Holly_in_Kitchener%2C_Ontario%2C_Canada.jpg
Holly: Oh man...I can't believe I shit my pants with awesomeness again...

[AdrianM]

I was never really a big fan of him, but since he came to ECW I really have enjoyed him. His match with RVD was great, and he seems to be fitting in well there.

:y:

I have really enjoyed Holly since he moved to ECW.
I think its the perfect brand for him, and is one of their big names over there...heck, he'll probably be in the elimination chamber match.

I could see him having some good matches with Kevin Thorn, and having a great feud with Matt Striker

[Funky Fly]

Fuck Bobcore.

[Londoner]

If anyone saw Holly's match with Test, that will remind you of how shit he is. I think RVD has been improving a lot lately and that's probably why Holly was able to step it up a gear, against guys like Test he just can't get it right.

[6to1]

Holly on the IWC tends to go up and down in opinion.

I've gained more respect for him after that RVD/Holly match recently, he fits the ECW brand with his hard hitting style.

However, he did used to get called sparkplug and beat the shite out of Matt from TE for no particular reason
yea i am with you there i hated him before that match but now i kind of like him in ecw, that was about the worst cut i have ever seen in wrestling.

[Stickman]

You do realize if he didn't get cut by the table you'd be talking about how boring he made that match and how RVD carried it but shouldn't have to wrestle a guy like Bobcore.

[tucsonspeed6]

Just about any wrestler would have continued the match given the circumstances. The fact that it happened to him might be considered luck, in which case he only deserves the respect of a guy who does exactly what he gets paid to do. The fact that he nearly died of a staph infection but pull out of it to return to wrestling probably demands more respect than that single match did.

[Kane Knight]

Just about any wrestler would have continued the match given the circumstances. The fact that it happened to him might be considered luck, in which case he only deserves the respect of a guy who does exactly what he gets paid to do. The fact that he nearly died of a staph infection but pull out of it to return to wrestling probably demands more respect than that single match did.

Is there any difference, really? that was just his luck, too. Survival is what we expect people to do. It's not impressive, by your logic, just fortunate.

No, I think actually doing what wrestlers are supposed to do, which is show a work ethic, is a positive thing. A shame it doesn't negate his shitty matches and pathetic attempts to make people look bad.

[Skippord]

Actually nvm I havent been enjoying him in ECW

fuck bobcore

[.44 Magdalene]

He's been okay in ECW, I think. He's dragged my personal Distaste-O-Meter from "Absolutely Loathing" to "Mildly Annoyed With."

[HeartBreakMan2k]

He's a solid worker and he fits ECW so I watch him in ECW. He's a dick backstage appearently, but I don't particularly care about if he's a dick or not because it doesn't effect me.

[Afterlife]

I've never been able to grasp why he's never had a legit title shot. He and Venis are very much in the same boat like that; they've been around much longer and are more recognized than half the loads that get thrown at title shots. I just don't get where the company's loyalties lie or where their heads are.

[tucsonspeed6]

Is there any difference, really? that was just his luck, too. Survival is what we expect people to do. It's not impressive, by your logic, just fortunate.

No, I think actually doing what wrestlers are supposed to do, which is show a work ethic, is a positive thing. A shame it doesn't negate his shitty matches and pathetic attempts to make people look bad.

But there's lots of people who just accept death at that late stage. I can't imagine anyone saying to a cancer survivor, "Good. You did what anyone would do. Now suck it up and get on with your life." Nobody thinks of Earthquake and says that him surviving as long as he did was what was expected of him, because there are a hell of a lot of people who wouldn't have fought it as long as he did. And as for Holly, from what I heard he was actually near death at one point too. His survival might not have been guaranteed at that point, so maybe he did earn a little respect.

And I agree with you on his work ethic. My whole point was that if any guy landed on the table wrong they would have finished the match. Scott Hall would have finished the match, but he had a terrible work ethic. Jake Roberts during his most piss drunk match would have finished the match after a bad fall. Same goes for Ultimate Warrior. But look at some of the young guys who get overlooked and have a great work ethic. They come in night after night, job to a bunch of old guys again and again, work hard, take the bumps and do it all to a silent crowd of sheep who are all thinking about taking a piss break until Cena or DX comes out. Sure they get paid more than the average bear, but why suddenly think that taking a bad fall on a table is the yardstick of respect? My whole point was that we need to have a better reason for suddenly respecting someone....someone like Stevie Richards.

[hb2k]

http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/pictures/b/bobholly/13.jpg

[the wwe champion]

As far as I know I have seen 3 awesome Hardocre Holly matches.
His match with Show on SD!, against Rvd on ECW and the most awesome Velocity match of all times Bob Vs. Angle.That was a classic.
People need to except things like K-Fed.

[Londoner]

You do realize if he didn't get cut by the table you'd be talking about how boring he made that match and how RVD carried it but shouldn't have to wrestle a guy like Bobcore.


Exactly. So what? He got cut by a table? It's what happens in wrestling.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, Holly getting sliced open by the table didn't really modify my opinion of him. It happens, any guy would have likely finished the match.

Holly is a decent worker, though, I've always had that standpoint. I liked him when I first started watching in 2001, and I liked him right up until he started acting like a douche more and more. The incident with Rene Dupree was where I finally just gave up on defending the guy, and started disliking the guy for his attitude.

Holly and Venis are very much the same type of performer. Both are solid in the ring (with Venis being the better of the two), and both have charisma (Venis being the more charismatic of the two). They've never really been given a shot, though, specifically Venis. When news that Holly was going to ECW first came up, I said I'd much rather see the two reform their tag team on RAW. Hardcore Holly fans cannot be upset with his treatment in ECW.

The guy seems to fall flat as a heel, though. As an underdog, veteran babyface, he does quite well. It's when he's asked to be a bad guy that fans begin to realise there is no reason to care about the guy. Hopefully he gets into a meaningful program and makes people see him as more than that guy that's been doing nothing for a while.

[Londoner]

Lets just say that cut from the table was no more than what Holly deserved for the shit he pulled on that TE kid.

[Vastardikai]

^

Sorry, as much as I hate any wrestler (not so much Bob, maybe Orton in this case), I don't wish death, serious injury, or anything like that on anyone. A nasty cut from a table almost ended Finlay's career (granted, it was a Fiberglass table).

[Londoner]

But shit, I don't wish people to get beat up for no reason either but Holly still did it, so fuck it, what goes around comes around. He still survived.

[Destor]

I LOVED what Holly did on TE.

[Vastardikai]

^

Bob is a solid worker. He is rough with some of the kids, but honestly, I think a woodshed incident for the guys fresh out of OVW who think they're on the fast track to success isn't necessarily a bad thing. Who knows, maybe it'd prevent some of these out of control ego problems (see Batista, Dave; Orton, Randy). I'll agree Matt and maybe Rene didn't deserve what they got, but it's part of the business, for better or worse. Moreso than some guy sitting behind a keyboard bitching about a Bob Holly stiffing and possibly hurting a kid.

God, I feel dirty now after defending Bob Holly. I need a shower.

I don't like the idea of him messing that kid up, either. But the thing is, I'm not a part of the business. All I do is sit behind a keyboard and bitch about how much I hate something yet still watch it.

I wouldn't wish that gash or MRSA on my worse enemy (and trust me, my step-mother had MRSA, it ain't fun.), It doesn't matter if it was because he shot your neighbor's dog or if he stiffed some wet behind the ears kid who didn't know any better.

[Destor]

Well I am part of the business, and I can tell you that my first day of training four of my ribs were broken with in the first 20 minutes, I then continued for the next 8 hours of training, and came back the next week. And I didn't cry like a little punk that I'll leave un named.

Being beat down is a VERY good thing for young guys. Some people in pro-wrestling are going to go out of their way to hurt you, and you need to be prepared for that as early as possible. Being rough with trainees will make sure that they are tough enough to cut it in the business. It a VERY good learning experience. I think it's necessary, and a VERY good thing.

[Vastardikai]

I was referring to TL, who was waving his finger about Bob.

I guess I wasn't as far off on my thinking of it as I thought.

[Kane Knight]

For the people saying he got what he deserved, tell me what Bret did. Tell me what Pillman and Owen did. Tell me what Eddie did.

Let's not pretend there's any comuppance out of this. People get hurt. People die. It's senseless, but it's not fate. You can't believe that one guy got what he deserved unless you also believe these other people must've as well.

While I don't like Holly, I'll say this: Unless you've been going around saying "Boy, that Eddie Guerrero must've had it coming," don't go on that Bob got what he deserved.

In other words, everyone but Rectal Pertruder shut the fuck up.

[Pepsi Man]

For the people saying he got what he deserved, tell me what Bret did. Tell me what Pillman and Owen did. Tell me what Eddie did.

Let's not pretend there's any comuppance out of this. People get hurt. People die. It's senseless, but it's not fate. You can't believe that one guy got what he deserved unless you also believe these other people must've as well.

While I don't like Holly, I'll say this: Unless you've been going around saying "Boy, that Eddie Guerrero must've had it coming," don't go on that Bob got what he deserved.

In other words, everyone but Rectal Pertruder shut the fuck up.
Didn't Eddie and Pillman both kind of have something to do with their own demise, though?

*cringes*

[Kane Knight]

They did. And moreso than Holly, strangely enough.

[Londoner]

Well I am part of the business, and I can tell you that my first day of training four of my ribs were broken with in the first 20 minutes, I then continued for the next 8 hours of training, and came back the next week. And I didn't cry like a little punk that I'll leave un named.


There's a big difference between training and injuring yourself compared to someone getting beat up for no reason don't you think?

[Londoner]

For the people saying he got what he deserved, tell me what Bret did. Tell me what Pillman and Owen did. Tell me what Eddie did.

Let's not pretend there's any comuppance out of this. People get hurt. People die. It's senseless, but it's not fate. You can't believe that one guy got what he deserved unless you also believe these other people must've as well.

While I don't like Holly, I'll say this: Unless you've been going around saying "Boy, that Eddie Guerrero must've had it coming," don't go on that Bob got what he deserved.

In other words, everyone but Rectal Pertruder shut the fuck up.

What did Eddie do to anyone else that wasn't deserved? He did what he thought was best for himself and didn't intentionally set out on beating the shit out of someone.

[Destor]

I didn't injure myself, they beat me "for no reason." (Although I see the reason.)

[Londoner]

^ Ok fair enough, you didn't make that clear. Though I wouldn't take too kindly to someone who sets out deliberatey trying to injure my ribs, not my thing personally!

[Destor]

I respect them for it. They respect me for being a man about. Thats how the business works. Did they get receipts? Of course, but they were right in doing what they did. Pain builds character, not to mention you need to separate the weak from the warriors as quickly as possible. These things are VERY common in pro-wrestling, singling out Hardcore Holly just because he did it on national television is retarded. Every wrestler you love has probably worn out some green at some point. And you'll never hear about it. BECAUSE IT'S NO BIG THING. The kind of people who can't take physical punishment don't have any business in pro-wrestling any way.

[Afterlife]

For the people saying he got what he deserved, tell me what Bret did. Tell me what Pillman and Owen did. Tell me what Eddie did.

Let's not pretend there's any comuppance out of this. People get hurt. People die. It's senseless, but it's not fate. You can't believe that one guy got what he deserved unless you also believe these other people must've as well..

Don't cofuse Fate with Karma, lest your point dwindle in solidity.

[Londoner]

I respect them for it. They respect me for being a man about. Thats how the business works. Did they get receipts? Of course, but they were right in doing what they did. Pain builds character, not to mention you need to separate the weak from the warriors as quickly as possible. These things are VERY common in pro-wrestling, singling out Hardcore Holly just because he did it on national television is retarded. Every wrestler you love has probably worn out some green at some point. And you'll never hear about it. BECAUSE IT'S NO BIG THING. The kind of people who can't take physical punishment don't have any business in pro-wrestling any way.


Well, I just don't think it was a smart thing for Holly to do on national tv, you know? Considering it happened to no one else why single out one kid?

[Destor]

I don't remember the situation too clearly but it seemed like Matt was the one with the most (if not the only one) with potential. Taking him to the wood shed was more important than taking EVERYONE to the woodshed. Especially since most wouldn't be getting into the business anyway. And if you notice the Holly beat down really lit a fire under his ass. It made him excel, like he had something to prove.

On a side note the whole time I watched the TEs I was screaming at my TV for them to school the whole lot of them, so naturally when Holly gave those potatoes to Matt I was marking out hard. That is EXACTLY what you do green kids. Make sure they know quick that just because it's fake doesn't mean it all fun and games.

[Destor]

And doing it on TV was very important to me. Make the entire national audience know that is what you go through to be a wrestler.

[Londoner]

TBH man I never saw that episode of TE, nor did I see the rest of the series. I just heard what happened and found it a bit unprofessional.(especially when you consider they never done that shit on the rest of the TE's)

[Pepsi Man]

TBH man I never saw that episode of TE, nor did I see the rest of the series. I just heard what happened and found it a bit unprofessional.(especially when you consider they never done that shit on the rest of the TE's)
Damn, you're sure arguing strongly about something you just "heard about".

[Kane Knight]

What did Eddie do to anyone else that wasn't deserved?

That was kind of the point. Well, part of it, anyway. The point was to contrast that Eddie, who is cannonised as a saint in the IWC, got a more severe punishment than the evil doctor Holly. If Holly got what he deserved, and Eddie got something worse, then reasonably, Eddie must have done something REALLY bad.

Or maybe, Holly didn't get what he deserved, and people should shut the fuck up. I think you missed that part.

[Kane Knight]

Don't cofuse Fate with Karma, lest your point dwindle in solidity.

Once again, you lose a beat because your linear mind refuses to accept that the two in common speak are used interchangably.

[Kane Knight]

^ Ok fair enough, you didn't make that clear. Though I wouldn't take too kindly to someone who sets out deliberatey trying to injure my ribs, not my thing personally!

Then don't go into pro wrestling.

It's gaytarded, but it's part of the business. They think it's the only way to "buildcharacter" and "initiate" you (I know many martial artists who would disagree, and they aren't even doing a fake sport in faggy tights), and you're not going to be the one to change it.

[Stickman]

I wonder if Cena ever got beat up.

[Vastardikai]

I never saw the incident, either, to be honest.

I just figured, upon hearing it, that this was something being taken completely out of proportion. The whole point of Tough Enough was to, besides find some schmuck to work in the WWE, show the fans what it takes to actually be a professional wrestler. Not all of it is necessarily a pretty sight to see. You can't fault Bob Holly for something Stu Hart more or less did to everyone who stepped foot into the Dungeon (of course, Stu simply stretched the ever loving fuck of them, but it's the same premise.).