Kane over Lashley

[FBI mark]

I really think Kane would have been a better choice to be Trumps pick then Lashley. First off Bobby Lashley is still a relatively unknown, at least for such a spot at Wrestlemania. Second of all Kane and Umaga have a history against one another; which could have added depth to the match. Finally, Kane has at least branched out from wrestling, albeit in a lackluster movie, but still wouldn't Trump have been more impressed in a wrestler who multi-tasked.

Kane and Austin have history too and who knows, they could have dredged up there history as well, having Kane show frustation at his 24 hour title reign that was because of Austin. The history would have been ripe, and the dynamic of Kane vs Austin vs McMahon vs Umaga would be far more interesting then the bland introduction of Lashley.

I also feel Chris Benoit and Eugene would have been good choices instead of Lashley. However, Kane would have been far more interesting and maybe he could have doned the mask for this match.

Anyway, Lashley is friggen balled, why would Trump pick a guy with no hair, it's sort of a bad omen.

Does anyone agree/disagree with me, or what?

[Jeritron]

You act like Umaga is any better known.

Plus, yea Kane and Umaga have a history against eachother. Which is exactly why he shouldn't be picked. They had like 90 matches and Kane got jobbed out in all of them.

[FBI mark]

Just think of this, Trump says to McMahon and Umaga "your fired", to which Kane throws a fire ball at the duo!

In fact Trump and McMahon could have a battle of words over the very use of the words "your fired", in which the previous scenerio is played out. I would play the Kane fireball two weeks before Wrestlemania. During the last week before Wrestlemania, I would have McMahon come out in bandages, and he and Umaga would somehow get the best of Kane, to where Vince says "I'll see you in hell, and after Wrestlemania, you will be .....Fired"! This kind of build up would be practicle and exciting, something usually associated with Wrestlemania!

[Jeritron]

book em Dan-O

[Jura]

I just want to see Kane turn back into the unstoppable monster he used to be wearing the mask and have one last championship reign.

[Jeritron]

I just want to see Kane turn back into the unstoppable monster he used to be wearing the mask and have one last championship reign.

I agree, I think it would work out very well on Smackdown rather than Raw too. Now's the time if any. He should be buried alive, or shot in the face with a fireball or something.

It'd be great to see them give him a sebatacle starting this fall or something.

Either way, picture this. Kanes gone for a 4 or 5 months, and shortly after a wrestlemania, vignettes begin airing for his return.
At the beginning of the summer, he returns as the monster and dominates. We'd get the Kane that talks, but with the mask. And still have Paul Bearer as a manger.
He gets involved in the title scene and quickly picks up the belt, and then makes a dominant run all summer.

Personally, I think they should have done this when he left Raw this fall.
He's not doing much at all since then, and he's not doing much at Wrestlemania. Would have been a prime oppurtunity to retune his character and bring him in for a big 07.
Then the person who went over for him for the title would have a lot of momentum.

[Jura]

I'd like for someone new to come in and feud with him. Someone like Vampiro. Play mind games and mess with Kane's head. Then Kane snaps but loses in some kind of match and is MIA for a little bit like you said. Then he comes back and starts playing mind games and destroys everyone in his path.

[Jeritron]

Yea, I've always thought a Kane/Sting fued would be amazing. If Sting would have signed with WWE, and they involved him in the Kane/Taker saga somehow, it'd be nice.

[FBI mark]

You act like Umaga is any better known.

Plus, yea Kane and Umaga have a history against eachother. Which is exactly why he shouldn't be picked. They had like 90 matches and Kane got jobbed out in all of them.


I would say Umaga is better known through his high profile fued against Cena. You can also factor in Umaga's mouth piece in Estrada, which again makes Umaga better known, and finally Umaga wrestles on the premiere brand that is RAW. I am almost positive the casual or non fan would have a better grasp of whi Umaga is as opposed to Lashley. Umaga is also very visual, while Lashley is just plain, that might also make Umaga more recognizable.

As for Kane jobbing to Umaga, so what? Kane could added incentive to beat Umaga. Hell, the Undertaker could give him a pep talk, and cyke Kane up for the matchup, to where Kane might even done his vintage mask, then it is on as they say. Also Umaga is not as invincible since his undefeated streak is over.

[FourFifty]

I'm just a mark for Kane, so I'm going to say yes.

[Jura]

I think the Kane vs Umaga is "been there, done that" as Kane's been beaten by Umaga so many times and it's a high profile match so they will use one of their champions they had.

I just don't an Undertaker pep talk would be enough and I think people will be like "why is he wearing a mask again?".

[Rammsteinmad]

Kane winning the title is about as likely as Triple H ever being in the opening match of a PPV.

[Jeritron]

I would say Umaga is better known through his high profile fued against Cena. You can also factor in Umaga's mouth piece in Estrada, which again makes Umaga better known, and finally Umaga wrestles on the premiere brand that is RAW. I am almost positive the casual or non fan would have a better grasp of whi Umaga is as opposed to Lashley. Umaga is also very visual, while Lashley is just plain, that might also make Umaga more recognizable.

As for Kane jobbing to Umaga, so what? Kane could added incentive to beat Umaga. Hell, the Undertaker could give him a pep talk, and cyke Kane up for the matchup, to where Kane might even done his vintage mask, then it is on as they say. Also Umaga is not as invincible since his undefeated streak is over.

:nono:

[FBI mark]

Alright, so Umaga has beaten Kane numerous times, hasn't enough time passed? How long do you think Kane needs in order to make a good comeback against Umaga? I mean has Kaners character become that weak?

This is why the doning the mask would bee effective imo, it would be like a placebo, enhancing Kane's resolve. Also to have the brothers of destruction in two main events would be very marketible.

It could have worked, as Lashley may work but I feel he came out of nowhere, just like when he won the ECW title. I know Trump could have picked anyone, but my perception is that Trump would have picked Kane because he trumps(pun intended) Lashley in markability, from his movie, to his relationship with Umaga, Austin, and the Undertaker.

I think Kane would be the underdog, and that is another dimension that would make the matchup interesting, think Rocky vs Mr. T.

[Jura]

I would like Kane vs Umaga if they did it like this:

Have Trump pick Austin as his rep but on the next Raw Austin will come on and respectfully decline but...he will be the special guest referee. Then he says he does have an idea who should replace him though. Austin suggests Kane and Trump at first seems hesitant but Austin convinces him.

Next Raw McMahon comes out with Umaga and goes on about how Umaga is undefeated against Kane and keeps on talking to make Umaga look good. Austin comes out and says to McMahon that Kane will win. McMahon has Umaga attack Austin. Then Kane comes out and brawls with Umaga.

Then the Monday Night Raws leading up to Wrestlemania will be Austin and Trump trying to bring out the unstoppable monster Kane used to be like Austin has tried to do in the past. Having Austin, Kane and Trump in the public eye, especially Austin, the fans will be much more excited and Austin will get more publicity for his movie.

Then on a Raw before Mania McMahon gets some guys to ambush Kane and throw a fireball in his face or something to gain the advantage. When the Wrestlemania match begins have it seem like Kane has been missing and probably won't show up then *bam* pyros go off and Kane's music plays. Kane comes out with the mask on.

[Jeritron]

You do realize that their whole goal with this entire match is to push Bobby Lashley. It's their sole intention, besides momentary interest from the Trump and Austin involvement.
But their hope is that their ECW champion will get as much exposure as possible from being in a program with McMahon, Trump and Austin. As well as squashing a once undefeated heel who they've thrown gold on.

I'm not saying it's the best idea, but it seems to be their true goal with this. If not I think they would have opted for Foley or a more over wrestler to put the squash on Umaga and up some buyrates. They're all pumped up about pushing Lashley it seems, and as of now they haven't succeeded. They've tried having him squash midcard stars in "title" matches, but that obviously wasn't working. He never worked a program with an established champion, and he's on a C show.

So seriously, this is the best idea they've had. Putting him in a Raw level fued with as many names as possible, and hoping it gets his name out there with the others since this is getting outside attention. I wouldn't be suprised if they made it for both belts and threw the IC belt on him too so he could work a squash every monday night.

The way they're doing things, and the state ECW is in, he's not gonna get over to their liking there. Why they wouldn't push him against real talent is beyond me, but this is certainly the best thing they've done with him so far. Even if its mediocre still.

[FBI mark]

Lashley and Umaga might be similar in terms of recognition, but really Umaga is on RAW, this really gives him a slight edge, it is onlt recently that Lashley has been getting recognized. Umaga has a slight advantage in recognizability, Lashley is just begining to get more recognition. I will say that after Wrestlemania both men will have a higher status, and Lashley will go over more because he'll probably win. That is long term though, the fact is Umaga is slightly more recognizable, for all the reasons I stated. Lashley is proving ground but all the variable I mentioned make Umaga more known, Lashley's little slide shows and talks with Teddy Long are just starting; Umaga has called out Flair (or actually Estrada), beaten Kane (I know), and fought Cena in high profile matches. What high profile matches has Lashley had in the past that would make him a houshold name?

I remind you I am not emplying that Umaga vs Cena is Hogan vs Andre, but it must have had an impact in the minds of the masses. Simply put I don't think Lashley is over enough to be in this matchup, maybe next year, but we'll see.

[Jeritron]

I see what you're saying, but Umaga is nothing near recognized. Same with Lashley, so its really pointless to compare. Even though it means shit, at least Lashley is the top dog of his show. He just needs to be on the other brands more.

Yes Raw is the A show and gets more exposure. But you can't say that Masters and Trevor Murdoch are more established than wrestlers on Smackdown and ECW.

[FourFifty]

Before we talk about if it should have been Kane let's think about things like this- Who is really getting their head shaved? If it's Trump, then by all means let Bobby in the match. If it's Vince, Trump should have taken a higher profile wrestler. Didn't Foley want a match at WrestleMania to promote his new book? Since a lot of casual fans know about The Nature Boy, what about Ric Flair? Think of the media hype if Trump wanted "someone speical" like Eugene.
In closing, tacos are awesome.

[FBI mark]

You do realize that their whole goal with this entire match is to push Bobby Lashley. It's their sole intention, besides momentary interest from the Trump and Austin involvement.
But their hope is that their ECW champion will get as much exposure as possible from being in a program with McMahon, Trump and Austin. As well as squashing a once undefeated heel who they've thrown gold on.

I realize this but don't feel that Lashley is ready for this push, but we'll see, this match will probably make or break Lashley. My idea of putting Kane in can have alot more potential, first Kane did a movie,this could help benefit Austin's film, the Undertaker in the main event/could be remeniscent of Guerrero and Benoit at Wrestlemania 20, and I just want to see Kane's career rejuvinated.

I'm not saying it's the best idea, but it seems to be their true goal with this. If not I think they would have opted for Foley or a more over wrestler to put the squash on Umaga and up some buyrates. They're all pumped up about pushing Lashley it seems, and as of now they haven't succeeded. They've tried having him squash midcard stars in "title" matches, but that obviously wasn't working. He never worked a program with an established champion, and he's on a C show.

It's just that Lashley is not interesting enough imo, he should be defending his belt anyway, the ECW belt was getting more of a rub from the Big Show. I feel Lashley could get just as over(may take longer) by defending the ECW title.

So seriously, this is the best idea they've had. Putting him in a Raw level fued with as many names as possible, and hoping it gets his name out there with the others since this is getting outside attention. I wouldn't be suprised if they made it for both belts and threw the IC belt on him too so he could work a squash every monday night.
Maybe they should have left Lashley on Smackdown, the brand has great workers that would've helped get Lashley over. The WWE just wants to overpush stars that are not ready, and I really feel that Lashley isn't there yet, and his success should not be forced, which I feel it is.
The way they're doing things, and the state ECW is in, he's not gonna get over to their liking there. Why they wouldn't push him against real talent is beyond me, but this is certainly the best thing they've done with him so far. Even if its mediocre still.

But he's supposed to get over there thats why he was moved there; the WWE should just learn patience, and let the fans decide who the next Hogan, Austin, Undertaker,etc., but we'll see. I justthought that Kane could be booked in many differant ways, making it more interesting imo. Lashley's is just Trumps hired guy(that the fans musr=t learn to get behind), while Kane's following would seem less forced, he is still pretty over, and if Kane won Umaga would look less invulnerabvle, which would be a good thing. If Lashley does go over and gets real big fine, I just liked the idea of Kane and thought it could have been more interesting.

I'm starting to be redundant so i'll stop now.

[Jeritron]

Before we talk about if it should have been Kane let's think about things like this- Who is really getting their head shaved? If it's Trump, then by all means let Bobby in the match. If it's Vince, Trump should have taken a higher profile wrestler. Didn't Foley want a match at WrestleMania to promote his new book? Since a lot of casual fans know about The Nature Boy, what about Ric Flair? Think of the media hype if Trump wanted "someone speical" like Eugene.
In closing, tacos are awesome.

yea but see my second to last post. I really think this is more about trying to get Umaga and Lashley over by association. Even if they're idiots for thinking it will work, its most likely their intention.
If it wasn't about that, I think they would have picked Foley to squash Umaga.

[Jeritron]

But he's supposed to get over there thats why he was moved there; the WWE should just learn patience, and let the fans decide who the next Hogan, Austin, Undertaker,etc., but we'll see. I justthought that Kane could be booked in many differant ways, making it more interesting imo. Lashley's is just Trumps hired guy(that the fans musr=t learn to get behind), while Kane's following would seem less forced, he is still pretty over, and if Kane won Umaga would look less invulnerabvle, which would be a good thing. If Lashley does go over and gets real big fine, I just liked the idea of Kane and thought it could have been more interesting.

I'm starting to be redundant so i'll stop now.

But then who would job to Khali?!?! :nono:

[The Optimist]

Lol. I hate Lashley's gimmick/place in life and Umaga's dumbass gimmick/IC Title reign. This is possibly most shitty hyped up bullshit I can remember.

[Jura]

I'll take one for the team.

[FBI mark]

I see what you're saying, but Umaga is nothing near recognized. Same with Lashley, so its really pointless to compare. Even though it means shit, at least Lashley is the top dog of his show. He just needs to be on the other brands more.

Yes Raw is the A show and gets more exposure. But you can't say that Masters and Trevor Murdoch are more established than wrestlers on Smackdown and ECW.


I really think the WWE made a mistake when they moved Lashley over to the ECW brand, had more potential to get over there, because of all the talent he could have worked with. I think of Finlay(who he worked with very well), Kennedy, Benoit, hell even MVP. He took a step backwards going to ECW, in the fact he has no real quality competition. I also don't like the fact that the WWE felt Umaga needed a championship to face the ECW champion, my god Umaga has one loss to how many wins?!

So your right neither wrestler is really miles apart in recognition, especially in today's overexposed product.

[Jeritron]

Lol. I hate Lashley's gimmick/place in life and Umaga's dumbass gimmick/IC Title reign. This is possibly most shitty hyped up bullshit I can remember.

I want Lashley to take the IC title too. Better than Umaga holding it. This has all inspired me to watch a Lashley shoot on youtube.

He's talking about how they want to put a mouthpeice with him, most notably Heyman and he loves the idea.
He also was originally slated to have a military gimmick, a la Sgt. Lashley. But he decided he was too "softspoken" to be in a vocal role :lol:

[Jeritron]

I really think the WWE made a mistake when they moved Lashley over to the ECW brand, had more potential to get over there, because of all the talent he could have worked with. I think of Finlay(who he worked with very well), Kennedy, Benoit, hell even MVP. He took a step backwards going to ECW, in the fact he has no real quality competition. I also don't like the fact that the WWE felt Umaga needed a championship to face the ECW champion, my god Umaga has one loss to how many wins?!

So your right neither wrestler is really miles apart in recognition, especially in today's overexposed product.

It seems as though, from what I'm hearing, Heyman was really high on Lashley and had intention for him after D2D. But we see where that went. It's probably why Lashleys sudden push has been shitty. I wish Heyman was still running things there. I guaruntee he could have gotten Lashley over.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The scenario presented by FBI Mark here is really well done. Kane as Donald Trump's representative would be the perfect way to finally make Kane a top guy. He's always been a main eventer, but he's always just been outside that circle of Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, Triple H, Shawn Michaels and The Undertaker. Being Trump's representative would have got him there, in my opinion. Donald Trump saying "You're fired," and then having Kane come out would have been an entertaining moment to say the least.

I don't think Kane needs the mask, again. I was kind of upset about him losing it in the first place (it kind of ruined the character's mystique), but now he's been in See No Evil, and pretty much without the mask for four years, I think it's time to just take Kane as he is. His facial expressions are pretty evil, too. He can be a maniac without it.

However, as much as we like to dream, Jeritron hit the nail on the head when he pointed out that this is the Bobby Lashley show. They want to make him a mainstream star in the same way John Cena and Batista and "mainstream" stars. I don't like it, but it's not like Donald Trump actually got a choice, and it's not like the WWE even really intended to give him the most established star to finally give them that Hall of Fame qualifying notch.

Their intent from the beginning was to push Wayne Bobby to the top, regardless of how the fans took to it, or what better opportunities there were.

[FBI mark]

Before we talk about if it should have been Kane let's think about things like this- Who is really getting their head shaved? If it's Trump, then by all means let Bobby in the match. If it's Vince, Trump should have taken a higher profile wrestler. Didn't Foley want a match at WrestleMania to promote his new book? Since a lot of casual fans know about The Nature Boy, what about Ric Flair? Think of the media hype if Trump wanted "someone speical" like Eugene.
In closing, tacos are awesome.

I also thought of Eugene and love the idea of Trump backing a "special" wrestler, Eugene would get mad underdog appeal with Trump as an advocate.
But yeah for a match of this magnitude both Trump and Vince should have used higher profiled wrestlers; this is the battle of the billionares!:shifty:

[Mr. Nerfect]

It seems as though, from what I'm hearing, Heyman was really high on Lashley and had intention for him after D2D. But we see where that went. It's probably why Lashleys sudden push has been shitty. I wish Heyman was still running things there. I guaruntee he could have gotten Lashley over.

Heyman wanted to turn Bobby Lashley heel and stick a mouthpiece on him (probably Heyman himself). This was the obvious and smartest way to make him a top level star. I'm also fairly certain that if Paul Heyman had his choice of winner at December to Dismember, it wouldn't have been Lashley. I think Rob Van Dam, CM Punk and even Test would have been higher on the ladder, but you can see how Vince got his teeth into that.

Heyman understood that it would take some delicate, though out booking to make Bobby Lashley the megastar he could be. Vince just said "That's the guy!" and through crap at the wall and if it didn't stick, he'd just throw it again.

[Jeritron]

Things would be so much better right now if RVD won that elimination chamber, defended against a string of compettitors from Rumble til now, and they built Lashley w/ Heyman as his heel challenger for WM. Then he'd get a credible title win, have a mouthpeice, be pushed as a dominant heel and do his thing over the summer.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Things would be so much better right now if RVD won that elimination chamber, defended against a string of compettitors from Rumble til now, and they built Lashley w/ Heyman as his heel challenger for WM. Then he'd get a credible title win, have a mouthpeice, be pushed as a dominant heel and do his thing over the summer.

:y:

[311]

The WWE gains nothing from Trump picking a 'higher profile' than Lashley.

The idea is to get 'new' viewers to watch WWE product. That's why they gave Trump their new boy...so he gets a nice push and new exposure in the process. They're pushing two of their newest stars.

They could have given Trump someone else, but why? "In theory," they stand to gain the most from it in this way.

WWE is a business and will continue to be run like one. See Women's division. :y: