ECW...the debate.

[BigDaddyCool]

I used to love ECW back in the day...but that day has passed. While I don't hate it or anything, I guess it just is getting old watching the same 5 matches that are on ever ECW dvd. I have 8 ECW dvd, 1 tape, and I used to have a few other that have either been lost or stolen. And they all have the same handful of matches on them. Also, they are mostly match from the pre-TNN/Spike tv days. But they all have pretty much the same matches over and over again, like Taz v. Sabu or that gay ass death match between the Rottens. So I'm wondering why aren't there more matches available. I could understand that in the beginning all the match weren't taped, but there are so few matches from after they signed with TNN. Then they were taping matches. I am left to wonder, if there are so few matches worth putting on a dvd/tape, then was ECW all it was cracked up to be or amy I just being too picky.

Discuss.

[The One]

ECW, in all it's glory, was not about matches. The true attitude of ECW came from the character development and the storylines they were willing to run with. The fact is, ECW has a VERY small collection of worthwhile matches. So that alone causes problems. Plus, ECW, or how new age it was, was still very old school in talent development. A lot of the matches were rather quick or designed soley to put over one particular person. By WWE fans standards, that is UNACCEPTABLE! They need to know that every match two guys are so evenly matched it could go either way, ECW was all about prolonged build up to an eventual great match...with maybe 30 or so of those happening in a meaningful way throughout all of ECW's history.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Yeah, basically ECW sucked.

[Jeritron]

Everything of meaning in ECW can be fit on a dvd set. It's legacy makes it out to be this dream promotion underground, and things were really good sometimes and there was hardcore classics. But apart from the finest moments, the small catalog of great matches and a few classic superstars who had yet to be discovered by the big two, it was pretty lackluster.

[Crossrine]

Dude I dont even bother buying the dvd's that WWE sells. I know you can buy like 6 or 8 tapes of old ecw pay per views. On youtube search for KevinWtaylor he put like 50 matches or so online. My freeweb got a bunch too, freewebs.com/crossrine. Its not amazin but it has bunch of matches.

As for people believing only some matches were good, I dont agree with that. In my opinion tons of matches were worthwile. As with any wrestling company you cant say all the matches are phenominal. Personally being an ECW fan I found the vast majority of WCW matches boring. And I am guessing someone who liked WCW more would think poorly of ECW. How you view a match as a "classic" is through your eyes only and how you compare that to wrestling you like.

[Jeritron]

A promotion where Mikey Whipwreck can be champion both sums up everything that was good in ECW, and everything that was wrong in ECW.

[BigDaddyCool]

Dude I dont even bother buying the dvd's that WWE sells. I know you can buy like 6 or 8 tapes of old ecw pay per views. On youtube search for KevinWtaylor he put like 50 matches or so online. My freeweb got a bunch too, freewebs.com/crossrine. Its not amazin but it has bunch of matches.

As for people believing only some matches were good, I dont agree with that. In my opinion tons of matches were worthwile. As with any wrestling company you cant say all the matches are phenominal. Personally being an ECW fan I found the vast majority of WCW matches boring. And I am guessing someone who liked WCW more would think poorly of ECW. How you view a match as a "classic" is through your eyes only and how you compare that to wrestling you like.

The majority of the DVDs and tapes I have are from ECW, not WWE.

[hb2k]

Look for the user "bloodriotzero" on Youtube and check out his collection of videos, then draw your own conclusions.

ECW was revolutionary and cutting edge in it's time, without a doubt.

[DAMN iNATOR]

On a related note, I've heard rumors, and right now they are only rumors, that ECW may be out after Mania...

[Crossrine]

Hopefully

[Jeritron]

Wouldn't suprise me. Seriously, they will probably have the new breed squash the originals. Release Sandman, Sabu and Dreamer (maybe leave him on as a trainer or official like Snow) And move Lashley, CM Punk, and the 4 victorious new breed members onto other shows after they decide to dissolve the extinct ECW.
Then they'll release everyone else, and let RVD sign where he wants when his contract comes up. They'll keep burying RVD out of fear of him leaving. If he signs with WWE, they'll probably repush him. If not, he'll be sent wherever he goes without a win in 6 months.

It really wouldn't pose many problems since they'd probably only have to find something for 5 or 6 wrestlers to do on the other 2 brands and just fire the rest.

[Crossrine]

Well hopefully Sabu can go back to TNA and still be hardcore. Sandman could go to considering he was there along with Dreamer. RVD's contract expires soon so he may leave. But as much as I would love RVD to leave, he doesnt seem to me like the kind of guy that would. I dunno I cant see RVD leaving, but he does have fans in TNA.

[Jeritron]

I think he'll stay. I'm sure he realizes why WWE's jobbing, and its likely that he'll get pushed again after he signs a deal. Maybe not a big push, but far from being jobbed out. He'll be doing something if he resigns, and he'll be making a lot more money doing it.

[The One]

RVD is the ONLY man who carries his own cult fans now a days. I mean the only other guy who maybe, MAYBE carries as many direct marks is Cena. Those two are really the only two men on the planet who could make TNA have a huge meaningful spike in popularity.

[Jeritron]

Jericho has a loyal army of Jerichoholics. I won't lie though, if RVD went to TNA I'd tune in at first, and maybe check out his matches once in a while. But it wouldn't get me to watch regularly.
He certainly does have a cult following though. He's like a living comic book in wrestling, theres people who just follow RVD and don't care where he is.

However I think signing with TNA would be better for TNA than it would for RVD. If he signs with WWE longterm in the near future, things will become much better for him. Not to say them bullying him like that is a good thing, its pretty bad.

[Crossrine]

Well I think TNA ratings could spike if they played their cards right. If RVD made a good stable or some sort of interaction with past ECW guys that will sell with old ecw fans. I think the Sandman to this day has a huge following. People from back old ecw would fucking adore him during his entrance and would chant "Fuck em Sandman Fuck em!" (regardless if sandman was wrestling) if someone in the ring was an ass. Tommy also but ya I agree no one like the whole fuckin show's cult following. Sabu probably has the most hardcore profile or resume.

[Jeritron]

Well it'd be great for TNA to have all of those ECW guys in their promotion. Just because they'd attract more of that fanbase, and it'd serve as a great counterpoint to WWECW. There'd be the inevitable shoot promos about how they have more ECW guys than ECW does.
They could even form a stable and be the hostile invaders of Orlando. Knowing Russo, he'll probably do the VKM thing and have them try to get into ECW live events and shit.

Plus if Heyman ever could or would come over to TNA, that would serve as a major reason to come over and they'd all benefit from it. Doubtful but it still would be good for TNA.
Of course, they'd fuck all of this up and worry more about them shooting on what they used to do and what ECW is now, instead of worrying about making their presence work for them.

[Jeritron]

Seriously though, a Raven, Rhyno, RVD, Dudleys, Sabu, Sandman, Dreamer stable would be good for them.

[Arnold HamNegger]

ECW, in all it's glory, was not about matches. The true attitude of ECW came from the character development and the storylines they were willing to run with. The fact is, ECW has a VERY small collection of worthwhile matches. So that alone causes problems. Plus, ECW, or how new age it was, was still very old school in talent development. A lot of the matches were rather quick or designed soley to put over one particular person. By WWE fans standards, that is UNACCEPTABLE! They need to know that every match two guys are so evenly matched it could go either way, ECW was all about prolonged build up to an eventual great match...with maybe 30 or so of those happening in a meaningful way throughout all of ECW's history.

This is true...DAMN TRUE. :y:

This is what is missing from today's industry, well developed storylines where they prolong the money shot/payoff for an extended period of time...building the fans rabid at the thought of the match happening. Compare Sabu vs. Tazz to Angle vs. Samoa Joe for example. I fucking :drool: at the thought of what Heyman would have done with that storyline back in the heyday of ECW. The amount of drama ECW squeezed out of it's characters and storylines is unparalleled today. It gave the fans a REASON to care about coming to the next show or seeing the next episode. Now every storyline is cut with meth/cocaine and instantly shoved up the fans noses for a quick fix, especially TNA. Christ, it makes my head spin seeing Angle and Joe getting along buddy buddy and teaming together THIS SOON!

I mean ECW made the fans believe what they were seeing was real. Sandman selling the "blinding" from Dreamer by not leaving his house for a month as an example. Compare that to the FUCKING SILVER PLATTERED GIFT that was the Edge/Hardy/Lita real life drama that had fans genuinely interested without the aid of CREATING a storyline....and WWE fucked it to high hell!!!

How do you screw up that storyline? I mean you literally have to go out of your way to fuck something up that was so perfectly placed in your lap. Everyone responsible for that should have been fired IMO.

The one major thing that jumps out at me from DVD's I've seen is that Heyman actually allowed the wrestlers to have an influence in their storyline and the direction they wanted to go. Now it's just Hollywood writers and egomaniacs that are totally out of touch with today's culture. The fans (and wrestlers) are ignored and not allowed to play a vital part of the role...hell, their opinions are even avoided (moving PPV's, confiscating signs, etc.) and dubbed out of existence. If you force storylines and champions down the fans throats, how do you expect them to be emotionally involved? They aren't. Dropping buy rates and ratings prove that.

The ECW fans shit all over the lazy performers and storylines and their opinions were heard AND LISTENED TO. That's the difference I see now adays. WWE does the opposite. They seem to be content with the "Slap the fans in the face Era." Somebody needs to slap back.

[Jaded-Dragon]

This is true...DAMN TRUE. :y:

This is what is missing from today's industry, well developed storylines where they prolong the money shot/payoff for an extended period of time...building the fans rabid at the thought of the match happening. Compare Sabu vs. Tazz to Angle vs. Samoa Joe for example. I fucking :drool: at the thought of what Heyman would have done with that storyline back in the heyday of ECW. The amount of drama ECW squeezed out of it's characters and storylines is unparalleled today. It gave the fans a REASON to care about coming to the next show or seeing the next episode. Now every storyline is cut with meth/cocaine and instantly shoved up the fans noses for a quick fix, especially TNA. Christ, it makes my head spin seeing Angle and Joe getting along buddy buddy and teaming together THIS SOON!

I mean ECW made the fans believe what they were seeing was real. Sandman selling the "blinding" from Dreamer by not leaving his house for a month as an example. Compare that to the FUCKING SILVER PLATTERED GIFT that was the Edge/Hardy/Lita real life drama that had fans genuinely interested without the aid of CREATING a storyline....and WWE fucked it to high hell!!!

How do you screw up that storyline? I mean you literally have to go out of your way to fuck something up that was so perfectly placed in your lap. Everyone responsible for that should have been fired IMO.

The one major thing that jumps out at me from DVD's I've seen is that Heyman actually allowed the wrestlers to have an influence in their storyline and the direction they wanted to go. Now it's just Hollywood writers and egomaniacs that are totally out of touch with today's culture. The fans (and wrestlers) are ignored and not allowed to play a vital part of the role...hell, their opinions are even avoided (moving PPV's, confiscating signs, etc.) and dubbed out of existence. If you force storylines and champions down the fans throats, how do you expect them to be emotionally involved? They aren't. Dropping buy rates and ratings prove that.

The ECW fans shit all over the lazy performers and storylines and their opinions were heard AND LISTENED TO. That's the difference I see now adays. WWE does the opposite. They seem to be content with the "Slap the fans in the face Era." Somebody needs to slap back.

:y:

I do disagree though in that I think ECW had some of the most solid PPV cards of any company ever.

[Crossrine]

Didnt TNA once have an all ecw stable? I forgot what they called it though....