Discussion: Neither of the Hardys were ever World Championship material....

[Xero]

Neither Matt nor Jeff Hardy were ever and never will be World Championship material. They're solid mid-carders and a great tag team, but neither of them were ever even close to being in a legitimate main event.

Discuss.

[Jeritron]

I agree, although I do think the WWE and fans would have accepted Jeff as main event material for a short time period back in the day.

Not at this point, but I feel in 2002 they had intentions of pushing him and it would have been accepted but thanks to Jeff and time that ship has sailed.

[Mercury Bullet]

If Jeff was a little better on the mic he could be, but that would still be stretching it.

[Jeritron]

Matt's fued with Edge is the closest thing to main event singles stardom Matt will ever obtain.
But it's really okay. Both of them have made their mark in wrestling history. As a classic tag team, for the matches they've had, and even for some of the things they've done individually.
There's nothing wrong with their legacy and histories, they've had great careers. I think manytimes fans see performers who don't become top guys or world champions, or household names as failures. I think the Hardys have done fairly well for themselves and accompished more than they ever probably were though to have been able to.
As for Jeff, perhaps it's better that he never got that main event push. Probably would have been fleeting and only tarnished his relationship with Matt and the legacy of the team as opposed to individual agendas.

[Xero]

I agree, although I do think the WWE and fans would have accepted Jeff as main event material for a short time period back in the day.

Not at this point, but I feel in 2002 they had intentions of pushing him and it would have been accepted but thanks to Jeff and time that ship has sailed.
I think he would have been accepted by the majority, but I don't think he could have carried the title more than a month successfully, and that's being generous. Jeff never seemed like a main eventer in my eyes, and I didn't except him when he had the Ladder match with Taker as on Taker's level.

I always saw him, at best, as on Shawn Michaels' level when he was IC champion. He never evolved enough to be, as people were putting it, "the next Shawn Michaels". He sort of just stopped there.

[Jeritron]

One could even make the argument that the collective unit of the Hardy Boys tag team in itself if a top draw and a legendary supserstar. I mean, the prospect of a Hardys oriented TLC can probably draw better than some world champions. It certainly was practically main event in 2000/2001 when it was as hot as the main event scene among fans.

[Destor]

Is there someone saying otherwise?

[Xero]

Aside from Shadow, don't think so. It was just a thought on my mind that could make a decent thread.

[DaveWadding]

Neither of them was ever IC title material either, really.

[M-A-G]

Not to mention the people who pine for a Matt Hardy main event push.

[M-A-G]

Referring to Destor and Xero that is.

[Jeritron]

The discussion should be, as a tandum draw, where the The Hardys stand next to main eventers, uppermidcard singles stars, and champions over the years.

I think the TLC ladder craze and the Hardy Boys were pretty fuckin huge draws in those years.

[M-A-G]

Their comments, not their desire for a Matt Hardy push. I'm gonna stop talking now.

[Destor]

Neither of them was ever IC title material either, really.Now that I have to disagree with.

[Jeritron]

Neither of them was ever IC title material either, really.

I disagree with that.

[Jeritron]

haha Des beat me to it

[Destor]

Also, M-A-G you have a point, sort of.

[Juan]

I totally forgot that they used to be WCW Tag Champions until I re watched No Mercy today for the first time since 2001.

[Jeritron]

Jeff is as good of an IC champion as they could have right about now, and he was excellent in that role upon his return during the winter.
So is Jeff World title material, absolutely not.
Is he IC material, absolutely perfect IC championship material. IC/Tag division for life for him.
As for Matt, same exact boat. I know everyone likes him and pines for a push, and probably because they feel bad for him. But come on. He's not a world champion and theres nothing wrong with that. He's got a great career where he's at right now.

[MLW]

Watch this and then say this guy isn't championship material!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yusxHW9Ewo&mode=related&search=

[Xero]

Jeff never seemed like a main eventer in my eyes, and I didn't except him when he had the Ladder match with Taker as on Taker's level.

[ddpBANG]

This guy isn't championship material.

[MLW]

This guy isn't championship material.
You could atleast have waited the time of the clip so you actually could have watched it...

[Xero]

He isn't.

[311]

Well, I'm sorry Matt hardy lovers, but in my opinion, I have never seen 'anything' in Matt Hardy. Jeff, on the other hand, I saw as being a good mid-card performer, which is exactly what he's become. I have never seen dollar-signs on Matt Hardy, and I just don't see what the big deal is.

They work best as a tag team, period.

:y:

[IC Champion]

Matt Hardy could probably pull it off, given he had a new gimmick of sorts and and changed his look. Hes been the same ol Matty Hardy for 4 years. So if heb re-invented himself as a heel then maybe he would have a chance, and im not talkin about his Matt Hardy Version 1.0 trash.

[MLW]

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Man I miss the hardcore title :p

[Destor]

Watch this and then say this guy isn't championship material!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yusxHW9Ewo&mode=related&search=He really isn't championship material.

[The One]

I havn't read any of the response, but I'll just throw this out there; Xero is 100% right on this topic.

[The One]

Which could have also been sumed up by...

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/107/kliqhandgv0.jpg

[311]

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Man I miss the hardcore title :p

That metal sheet in the corner thing looked awesome. The title being on the line '24 hours a day' was cool imo.

Also, R.I.P Crash. :heart:

[ddpBANG]

You could atleast have waited the time of the clip so you actually could have watched it...
I've seen the math dozens of times, I didn't need to wait.

[The Show Off]

Both of them could be World Champions in the future, they both have it in them, they get good pops. I think Matt especially has a good chance of making it at a World Champion it's just a matter of investing the time into building him into something more then one half of a tag team. I'm not necessarly a huge Matt Hardy mark but he's a solid in ring performer with good reactions from the crowd and slowly (very slowly) developing mic skills.

I don't think anyone, given the right attention grooming and push, is incapable of being a viable main eventer. I'm sure I could come up with a senerio that could get almost anyone over in the main event.

I'm sure both of them could be World Champion, whould either of them be my top choices? No. But seven years ago I wouldn't have thought Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio, Bradshaw, Jamal of 3 Minute Warning and Christian would have ever gotten a chance to be the main event, and in all those cases I was wrong. As long as you're not terrible in the ring and terrible on the mic you can be a World Champion if treated correctly... Hell Bobby Lashley is a main eventer without either of those things.

[Xero]

But Bobby Lashley sucks as a champion. He's over, I'll admit, but he's a horrible champion. Just because you're over doesn't mean you can handle a world championship.

[Destor]

Wait, what? Being ablke to make money (one of the affects of being over,) is alll that matters. what are you on about?

[Jordan]

I would be ok with either of them taking a title reign, as long as it were relativley short, under 3 months or so. I think that both of them probably deserve it, Matt more so because he is a better wrestler but both of them would draw an insane amount I belive.

[Jordan]

I like Bobby so fuck you guys.

[Destor]

I'm a fan of Lashley as well. :y:

But I have to severly doubt Matt's ability to draw, I'm a huge fan of the guys work, but I don't think he connects to much of the audience. Now Jeff has the female audience down pat and would probably be more succeful than his brother, it's a shame Matt can get it done in the ring and Jeff has the majority of the charisma. If only we could talk them into running into each really fast. And the *BAM* one Hardy. One Hardy who has it all.

[Xero]

Wait, what? Being ablke to make money (one of the affects of being over,) is alll that matters. what are you on about?
He's green and isn't a good champion. That's what I'm on about.

They could put the World title on Funaki. I mean, people bought his shirts and he's over. Would he be a good champion?

[Destor]

Prove to me Funaki is over (in the way Lashley is,) and Draws (the way Lashley does.) You cant. why? cause he don't. You pulled that out of your ass. Sad thing is, if Funaki was what the people REALLY wanted to see then he would be the right pick for the job. Good thing that will never happen.

Having a look and personality of a champion isn't relevant. Well only as relevant as the audience makes it, which is quite a lot actually. People want certain things from a champion. Size, charm, good looks, what ever. But none are necessary save one thing: Do they want to see you? Will they pay money, time and time again for a chance to see you? If you can get enough people to subscribe to see you then you DESERVE to be champ.

[Xero]

So what you're saying is that they should put the title on a rock. Literally a rock they found outside the arena, if that rock sold tickets and drew an audience?

And really, I don't think it's fair to say that Lashley draws (as far as live gates go) because ECW tours with SmackDown!. And ECW ratings aren't anything to brag about (compared to other WWE programming, past and present).

[Loose Cannon]

This is the 2nd time somebody's mentioned Funaki as being a main guy this week. what is it with him?

Anyway, I agree with Destor here in that Lashley is a good ECW Champ. He's got the look and his mic skills have certainly improved. I remember he was horrible months back. He's got his confidence now. I'm liking what he's doing. He'll be WWE Champ some day.

And I don't think both Hardy's will ever be a World Champ in WWE, but I would like to belive if they pushed Matt right when he came back for Edge, he could of at least been in that Title scene. The boy was over

[Destor]

So what you're saying is that they should put the title on a rock. Literally a rock they found outside the arena, if that rock sold tickets and drew an audience?

And really, I don't think it's fair to say that Lashley draws (as far as live gates go) because ECW tours with SmackDown!. And ECW ratings aren't anything to brag about (compared to other WWE programming, past and present).Dude, if more people want to see the rock I don't see what the debate is.

[The One]

Dude, if more people want to see the rock I don't see what the debate is.

You can't possibly believe that Destor. After all, we've talked quite in depth about how despite Christian being very over with the TNA Sheeple, he makes a terrible NWA World Champion based in large part to his past with WWE. The fact of the matter is, and I think if you look deep down you'll agree, there is so much mroe to making a good World Champion than being able to bring in a crowd (which honestly, I don't think Lashley does). There have been a number of people who have been able to get some marks dollars in their pockets based off ticket sales who made horrific champions. Lashley is one of those horrific champions who not only does nothing to honor what the belt is suppose to represent, but infact at times does the exact opposite.

[Loose Cannon]

he's a decent ECW Champion though. I mean, ECW is terrible and the belt is pretty worthless. Hence why I think Lashley isn't the worst thing for the belt. Hell, he at least brought the belt to a major match at Mania. I don't know if the ECW champ would of been at Mania if not for Lashley holding it.

If he was a Raw or Smackdown Champ, I would say thumbs down

[The One]

I don't know. I'd rank the ECW World Title (if you count the actual pre-WWECW history of it) above the World Heavyweight Title...hell I'd probably rank it above the WHC even if it carries with it the WCW legacy (it's on again off again with WWE's history books). But let's assume this version of the ECW belt is just standing or the WWECW days, I would say Lashley EASILY is the worst of the three champions so far. And his competition is Big Show and a short reign due to pot smoking RVD. Not a difficult bunch to come out of on top, and yet Lashley sinks straight to the bottom.

[Theo Dious]

So what you're saying is that they should put the title on a rock. Literally a rock they found outside the arena, if that rock sold tickets and drew an audience?

They did that once. His name was Jim Helwig, though he later changed it to Warrior. From what he says, he was the greatest draw of all time.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Matt Hardy can be a main eventer, in my opinion. He doesn't seem like "The Hardy Boy" and he can work. It's obvious by watching his matches that he's a potential ring general, he calls the spots, and knows how to keep the match flowing. Matt Hardy's skill is not a problem.

Is he over enough to be Champion? Fuck yes. In 2005, he was it. The fans had it hard for him. They still do. I've read reports where Matt Hardy gets bigger pops than Batista. He's also surpassed Jeff, in my opinion. A few year ago, when both guys were using Team Xtreme music, Jeff was more over just because he was the crazy one. Then Matt went off and got Mattitude, broke up with Lita and become a great wrestler. Matt Hardy's overness is not a problem.

Size and figure is also not a problem with Matt. He's bigger than some guys to have held the belt, and he is really quite built. He's not a machine, or anything, but he's got some muscle on him. I could buy him legitimately being put over as a tough guy.

Jeff Hardy is a different story, in my opinion. Jeff is pretty decent in the ring these days, and I think he does have a natural talent for the business. He's still the same Jeff Hardy he was during their tag team days, though. Sure, he had the Ladder Match against The Undertaker, and he won the Intercontinental Championship several times; I still see him as the same Jeff Hardy as the one I watched in 2001. Not even his attire has changed (unless you count him wearing Matt Hardy's cool pants).

I am not normally the one to say guys are "too small" for a World Title, but I have to bring it up with Jeff. He just doesn't have a "wrestler's figure" in my opinion. He's very...um...lanky? He doesn't have the definition that Edge does, though. I couldn't buy Gumby beating The Hulk; I don't think I could buy Jeff Hardy beating a Bobby Lashley.

I think with a makeover (at least new attire and music), Jeff Hardy could maybe change my tone, just by being amazingly fresh in the ring. I wouldn't complain if he got the belt, and if he did, I think he could even be successful (the fans genuinely like him and Matt). But I don't know, it wouldn't be something on my to-do list. Especially as Jeff is now.

Matt Hardy is a guy whose stock continues to rise, though. He consistently proves his worth in the ring, he's got charisma, he is over, and he looks the part more than Jeff. So my final opinion is...

Matt Hardy: Yes

Jeff Hardy: No

[Theo Dious]

I don't know man, I agree with you about Matt, but the moment Jeff touched the belt in his ladder match with the Undertaker, I realized that he could be something big, just the way he is. It would be like Rey Mysterio's title run, except it wouldn't suck.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't know man, I agree with you about Matt, but the moment Jeff touched the belt in his ladder match with the Undertaker, I realized that he could be something big, just the way he is. It would be like Rey Mysterio's title run, except it wouldn't suck.

I've always been slightly biased against Jeff Hardy, mainly because I've always liked Matt more, and back in my markish days, I wanted to see Matt get most of the attention, rather than Jeff. Your opinion is probably more well formed than mine.

I think if they got Jeff Hardy as he is, had him win the World Title, and made it seem like he was Champion for a reason (something they didn't do with Mysterio, in my opinion), but that he could lose the belt any day, he could actually be a compelling Champion.

I would much rather see him get a makeover; maybe have a band perform a new entrance theme for him. With a fresh perspective, Hardy could actually climb the ranks and become a compelling Champion.

[AdrianM]

i'd like to see Jeff as champ cos, as alienoid said, it could b done like as if he could loose @ any time. I suppose they did that initally with Cena (trying to stack everyone against him, Christian, Jericho, Bischoff) but honestly, we all knew Cena would win that feud. Then they brought in angle and u still knew Cena would go over him, then HHH, and we all pretty much assumed he'd go over HHH too, then Edge and yet again, we knew Cena would win it.

but anyway, I would like to see jeff a surprise winner in a three-way title match one day against,for example, Cena & HHH. Then have them both fighting to get the title off him

[BigDaddyCool]

Honestly there is nothing to discuss, it is cold hard fact.

[Destor]

You can't possibly believe that Destor. After all, we've talked quite in depth about how despite Christian being very over with the TNA Sheeple, he makes a terrible NWA World Champion based in large part to his past with WWE. The fact of the matter is, and I think if you look deep down you'll agree, there is so much mroe to making a good World Champion than being able to bring in a crowd (which honestly, I don't think Lashley does). There have been a number of people who have been able to get some marks dollars in their pockets based off ticket sales who made horrific champions. Lashley is one of those horrific champions who not only does nothing to honor what the belt is suppose to represent, but infact at times does the exact opposite....:mad:

[Stickman]

I don't think either of them have "it"

[Muhammad]

I kind of just skimmed through the posts here but I agree that neither of them are championship material. To be honest, I don't care about either one as a singles wrestler all together. The most they ever deserved was a mid card push though I only like them as a tag team.

[Shadow]

Aside from Shadow, don't think so. It was just a thought on my mind that could make a decent thread.

Nope...never in my entire posting carrear have I ever said that Jeff Hardy should be the main champ. Mid-card is as high(:lol: ) as he should get. It's just something I don't think he'll ever get. Yes he did have a chance. When he took on the Undertaker in that ladder match. That was the chance. He was over, the crowd wanted him to win, but like everything, the writers blew it. Now...nah.

If he did win it today though, I'd probably start watching wrestling again

[Crossrine]

Originally posted by Shadow
Yes he did have a chance. When he took on the Undertaker in that ladder match. That was the chance. He was over, the crowd wanted him to win, but like everything, the writers blew it..

You know besides the fact that he walked into the match fucking stoned out of his mind, the writer did screw him over.

[Shadow]

I rather doubt Jeff had the time to get high on that match. Gotta remember something, Taker doesn't do Ladder matches. He probably had Jeff with him the entire day running over shit so that neither one of 'em got hurt.

So shut your fucking mouth Canadian Crippla.

[Crossrine]

Dont get me wrong, I like Hardy its just a known fact that he was out of it. If you read the book Matt and Jeff made, he says that he went into that match not caring. He said things like this should have been one of the biggest matches of my carrer but I didnt feel like it was. I think the interview is somewhere on WWE.com.

BTW I aint fucking CC, just on the could be list

[Destor]

Crossrine isn't CC.

[Destor]

That last post contained origional thought.

[Xero]

Whatever happened to Vermaat?

[Crossrine]

Thanks... I think