View Full Version : Raven: Charsimatic Genuis or One trick pony?
BigDaddyCool
05-22-2007, 09:41 AM
From back in the ECW days Raven has been considered on of the best dark, brooding, charismatic heels. But why? Every promotion he is in and can get some creative control, he forms a stable around himself. Every stable is set up for the most part the same, no name/no talent jobbers which him as a puppet master. I guess he does this to make himself look better and be the unquestioned leader of the group. The one place he didn't get to do this, WWE, he didn't get over quiet as well. So is Raven all he is cracked up to be, or just one trick pony?
Discuss.
Theo Dious
05-22-2007, 09:47 AM
One-tricker. I've never been impressed by Raven or his particular dark/brooding/wronged-by-the-world crap. If he can't get over without his stupid little cult-leader gimmick, then he's just not as good as people think he is.
Kane Knight
05-22-2007, 10:11 AM
One-Trick Pony.
Theo Dious
05-22-2007, 10:12 AM
I also vastly prefer Johnny Polo.
Mr. JL
05-22-2007, 10:21 AM
Can we factor in his TNA run?
If so, in the beginning of 2003 when he debut he had no stable following him around and he was phenomenal to watch perform as a tweener. Then again in 2005 after Hardcore Homecoming, TNA got behind Raven (who was not a leader of any stable at the time) and pushed him to a NWA title reign and he was fantastic to watch then too, and he was booked more as a babyface.
BigDaddyCool
05-22-2007, 10:31 AM
Can we factor in his TNA run?
If so, in the beginning of 2003 when he debut he had no stable following him around and he was phenomenal to watch perform as a tweener. Then again in 2005 after Hardcore Homecoming, TNA got behind Raven (who was not a leader of any stable at the time) and pushed him to a NWA title reign and he was fantastic to watch then too, and he was booked more as a babyface.
This barely counts because it is TNA and no one watched it at the time. Not that many more watch it now. :roll:
Theo Dious
05-22-2007, 10:43 AM
I remember my gf at the time, who was a bit of a wrestling fan, saw me watching a TNA show with Raven in the ME... her response was "WTF is HE doing in their main event? They must not have anybody good."
BigDaddyCool
05-22-2007, 10:45 AM
I remember my gf at the time, who was a bit of a wrestling fan, saw me watching a TNA show with Raven in the ME... her response was "WTF is HE doing in their main event? They must not have anybody good."
hahahaha I love when girlfriends are smarter than the bookers. Why aren't you still hittin' that?
Theo Dious
05-22-2007, 11:16 AM
hahahaha I love when girlfriends are smarter than the bookers. Why aren't you still hittin' that?
She left for reasons that were never fully explained to me.
BigDaddyCool
05-22-2007, 11:46 AM
She left for reasons that were never fully explained to me.
Probably though she could be booked better with another boyfriend.
Theo Dious
05-22-2007, 11:47 AM
Yeah, I'm sure TNA would have used her properly.
IC Champion
05-22-2007, 11:54 AM
a Creative One Trick Pony
BigDaddyCool
05-22-2007, 11:55 AM
Yeah, I'm sure TNA would have used her properly.
Really, I figured she would gravitate towards RoH.
Theo Dious
05-22-2007, 11:57 AM
Not really, her mic skills are okay but she has no moveset whatsoever.
IC Champion
05-22-2007, 12:01 PM
Raven is partially responsible for The Dudley Boyz gimmick.
BigDaddyCool
05-22-2007, 12:03 PM
Not really, her mic skills are okay but she has no moveset whatsoever.
Oh, so she is going WWE?
Theo Dious
05-22-2007, 12:05 PM
No, she's fat so WWE wouldn't have anything to do with her nowadays.
BigDaddyCool
05-22-2007, 12:11 PM
No, she's fat so WWE wouldn't have anything to do with her.
Bertha Faye/Rhonda Singh? Bull Nakano?
Theo Dious
05-22-2007, 12:15 PM
:shifty:
Kane Knight
05-22-2007, 12:17 PM
She left for reasons that were never fully explained to me.
DT's girlfriend would like to wish him well in his future endeavors.
BigDaddyCool
05-22-2007, 12:17 PM
DT's girlfriend would like to wish him well in his future endeavors.
hahaha, Kane Knight made a funny.
Theo Dious
05-22-2007, 12:20 PM
DT's girlfriend would like to wish him well in his future endeavors.
Must spread more rep blah blah :lol:
Damn, she's been gone nine months now... if I knocked her up before she left, I'm a daddy now. :cool:
Kane Knight
05-22-2007, 12:28 PM
Bah. She liked wrestling. She was probably a dyke.
...In which case, send her my way. :p
Pepsi Man
05-22-2007, 01:12 PM
While you make a good argument for Raven being a one trick pony, I would just like to say that I think he took some of those "no name guys" in his stables and got them more over than they would've gotten without him.
Theo Dious
05-22-2007, 01:14 PM
...like who? Seriously, not being a jackass here, but I'm not sure who Raven ever really got over.
Pepsi Man
05-22-2007, 01:28 PM
...like who? Seriously, not being a jackass here, but I'm not sure who Raven ever really got over.
Billy Kidman, for one. Stevie Richards. Saturn...
Theo Dious
05-22-2007, 01:33 PM
I'll give you Kidman... Richards and Saturn I think really got themselves over, just in proximity to him.
Pepsi Man
05-22-2007, 01:38 PM
I'll give you Kidman... Richards and Saturn I think really got themselves over, just in proximity to him.
You actually believe that Richards would've been given any real chance if it weren't for Raven and being onboard with him?
Theo Dious
05-22-2007, 01:42 PM
Richards got his foot in the door with Raven, and got exposure being with him. He used that opportunity to get himself over though. Look at him in WWE; the majority of fans didn't really know who "Steven Richards" was (I know I didn't,) but he proceeded to get over with his Right to Censor gimmick pretty much on his own merits. I suggest that Raven's role in getting Stevie over could have been filled by almost anyone; as long as they had a leader role for Richards to play on, Richards could have gotten himself over just the same as he did. IMO.
Idk i liked Raven but some of the way they booked/still are booking him sucks, btw DT, Pepsi Man is right in this case, there would be no Stevie Night Heat had there been no Raven
Theo Dious
05-22-2007, 01:51 PM
I already changed my Top 5 Women's Champions list because of you, 4.0, I'm not giving you this one. :rant:
Well sir, once right always right :p
Pepsi Man
05-22-2007, 01:53 PM
Richards got his foot in the door with Raven, and got exposure being with him. He used that opportunity to get himself over though. Look at him in WWE; the majority of fans didn't really know who "Steven Richards" was (I know I didn't,) but he proceeded to get over with his Right to Censor gimmick pretty much on his own merits. I suggest that Raven's role in getting Stevie over could have been filled by almost anyone; as long as they had a leader role for Richards to play on, Richards could have gotten himself over just the same as he did. IMO.
And some guy didn't know who Bill Goldberg was when he challenged Triple H for the title in 2003. Does that mean Bill Goldberg wasn't over at that point?
Theo Dious
05-22-2007, 01:55 PM
And some guy didn't know who Bill Goldberg was when he challenged Triple H for the title in 2003. Does that mean Bill Goldberg wasn't over at that point?
There's a real difference betwen "some guy" and "most fans."
BigDaddyCool
05-22-2007, 01:57 PM
Billy Kidman, for one. Stevie Richards. Saturn...
They were over?
Theo Dious
05-22-2007, 01:59 PM
They were over?
That's another thing... those three guys aren't the most impressive to have on your "got 'em over" list. A guy who nobody but smarks likes, a guy who fell in love with a mop, and a guy who has become the Lanny Poffo of Raw.
BigDaddyCool
05-22-2007, 02:04 PM
That's another thing... those three guys aren't the most impressive to have on your "got 'em over" list. A guy who nobody but smarks likes, a guy who fell in love with a mop, and a guy who has become the Lanny Poffo of Raw.
Is Stevie the guy no one but smarks like, or the Lanny Poffo of Raw? Because Kidman is neither.
Theo Dious
05-22-2007, 02:06 PM
Oh come on, smarks like Kidman.
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Okay, SOME smarks.
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A few.
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FINE.
They only people I ever hear praising him are smarks. I think there were seven of them.
... :shifty:
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i liked his fued with ddp and the kanyen fued was pretty good back in the old wcw.
Pepsi Man
05-22-2007, 02:38 PM
They weren't Steve Austin or Hulk Hogan, but they were known more than the average run of the mill random jobber.
Sorry, but the term "over", to my understanding, never necessarily meant "main eventer" or "World Champion".
Theo Dious
05-22-2007, 02:40 PM
Perhaps, but more people today remember the Junk Yard Dog and Koko B Ware than remember Saturn.
BigDaddyCool
05-22-2007, 03:57 PM
Perhaps, but more people today remember the Junk Yard Dog and Koko B Ware than remember Saturn.
I remeber Saturn, he is that big yellow planet with rings?
Theo Dious
05-22-2007, 11:28 PM
No, he was the guy who looked like a car.
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