Discussion: Samoa Joe and World Wrestling Entertainment.

[St. Jimmy]

The rumor mill on thar intarwubs, says that Joe is going to NOAH for quite a while and is pretty disgusted all togehter with TNA. If Joe was to leave TNA and not have a contract with NOAH, do you think WWE would offer him a contract?

Personally, I don't think he's worth WWE's time. He's a good wrestler, and can handle a mic - but he's midcard at best. Even TNA won't put a major title on him, let alone getting a world title rub in a decent company.

I can see them hiring him, just to send a message, putting him in the main event on SmackDown, and then a nice burial and a release.

[IC Champion]

Who cares what Joe does, I thought he was good when I first saw him, but he's nothing special, besides WWE already has a Samoan.

Joe wouldnt stand out in WWE, and after 3 weeks, the fans would grow bored.

[IC Champion]

Oh, and NOAH is gay.

[Mercury Bullet]

I think he would be a solid mid-carder in WWE. He would have a 3 or 4 year run with the company in which he never really ascends from his mid card spot, and near the end he would start his decline. His run will wrap up with him putting over the next up and coming "monster" in a squash on Heat.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Fuck Joe.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I think he would be a solid mid-carder in WWE. He would have a 3 or 4 year run with the company in which he never really ascends from his mid card spot, and near the end he would start his decline. His run will wrap up with him putting over the next up and coming "monster" in a squash on Heat.

I see the same fate for our good friend, Youmainja.

[Kane Knight]

You spelled Soma wrong.

[FourFifty]

I see my joke lives on :rofl:

Seriously, fuck Joe. I'd rather see them re-sign Sean Waltman than Soma Joe.

[IC Champion]

Soma Joe is the goods.

[Kane Knight]

I see my joke lives on :rofl:

Seriously, fuck Joe. I'd rather see them re-sign Sean Waltman than Soma Joe.

I dunno. It's hard to sleep through those "You suck" chants.

[Jura]

I think the people would like him in ECW though.

[The Naitch]

yeah, ECW would suit him. Especially if Punk is still there. Atleast Innovator would be happy

[Mr. Nerfect]

LOL at all the hate Samoa Joe gets these days. Say what you want, the man is so much more entertaining than most of the guys under contract these days. He's still a lot better than Eddie Fatu.

The WWE would offer him a contract, as they have apparently been looking into him for some time, since the rumours of his contract with TNA expiring came up, but I don't think Joe would sign with them. He pretty much told the E to go fuck themselves when they offered him a deal when it came down between them and TNA. I think ROH or Hulk Hogan's promotion (assuming it does actually get off the ground) would be the most likely places for Samoa Joe to work in North America.

[IC Champion]

LOL @ Hogan's Promotion.

I say Joe stays where he is at now, he just wants more money.

[Fignuts]

Joe would fit well in Noah.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

If Joe leaves TNA, more likely than not he'll do the ROH/NOAH/ American indy scenes, make a decent amount of money, and be able to do what he wants.

I really can't see Joe in WWE. I really don't want to see Joe in WWE. I can't stand him in TNA he'd be even worse in WWE.

[Dave Youell]

If Joe leaves TNA, more likely than not he'll do the ROH/NOAH/ American indy scenes, make a decent amount of money, and be able to do what he wants.

I really can't see Joe in WWE. I really don't want to see Joe in WWE. I can't stand him in TNA he'd be even worse in WWE.
:y:

That's what I would expect and would also want him to do, in TNA he’s watered down and from the sounds of it, moaning backstage hasn’t helped him politically, if he goes back to the indys it will really help ROH’s PPV deal, plus he can then work pretty much wherever he wants and can start having great matches again, which can only be a good thing

[The Fugitive]

But aside from having great matches, what can he do in ROH? I suppose he could go into the tag team division and become ROH's first Triple Crown Champion, but then what?

[Dave Youell]

But aside from having great matches, what can he do in ROH? I suppose he could go into the tag team division and become ROH's first Triple Crown Champion, but then what?
He would be the biggest name they would have based off the exposure he would have generated via TNA, he can draw in guys from TNA to buy the PPV, that alone is a good reason to have him. I see no reason why he can’t have another run with the main title, it’s not like it’s against any rules.

If he’s going to be working Noah, getting random japs in to have an establish Noah/ROH feud would be good.

Oh he could feud with the 161 guys, whoever they are.

[Kane Knight]

LOL at all the hate Samoa Joe gets these days. Say what you want, the man is so much more entertaining than most of the guys under contract these days.

Yes, and poison ivy is better than herpes. They're both still rashes.

Joe is sub-par. The thing is, he's better than a lot of other sub-par wrestlers.

[Jura]

Yes, and poison ivy is better than herpes. They're both still rashes.
You've had both? :eek:

[Kane Knight]

No. Why, plan on disagreeing based on expert evidence? :p

[Mr. Monday Morning]

But aside from having great matches, what can he do in ROH? I suppose he could go into the tag team division and become ROH's first Triple Crown Champion, but then what?

In theory if Joe quits TNA and proves it's possible to still make a decent living on the indies without needing TV then other guys (aka Shelley, Sabin, Homicide, Low Ki, anybody else who hasn't really been pushed) might follow suit. The impact of that might be far greater than anything he does match or story wise.

Plus there's always the Joe vs NOAH angle they had to call off.

[IC Champion]

Becuase every kid who's dream it is to be a pro wrestler, wants to make a decent living working the Indy Scene so that in 20 years 6 people rememeber who they are. Come on, if Joe is as talented as everyone says he is, then he'll get to where he wants to, the guys has been involved in a program for months with Kurt Angle, for the TNA World Title, but he could do more, right? Joe has been given all the oppertunity needed to make something of himself, and going back to the Indy's, well that would be just fucking retarded.

The truth is the younger guys who wants out of TNA shouldnt even be there anyways, they might have talent, but they are shitty workers, and lack general ring physcology, which is why you see the WWE guys getting hired, not saying they are the best workers in the world, but better then most of the spot monkey X-Division guys.

Anways, I hear all this shit about how Joe is watered down? I don't get it. I used to watch ROH everyday on the FIGHT Network and he was always on their shows, and there isnt that much of a difference. So he doesnt do that rediculous Ole Ole kick, and isnt given mic time to deliver his boring ass promos.

The fact is when you take Joe, and compare him to the top guys today, he doesnt even come close to matching up agaisnt them, he's atleast another 5 years away from even being able to be considered in that class.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yes, and poison ivy is better than herpes. They're both still rashes.

Joe is sub-par. The thing is, he's better than a lot of other sub-par wrestlers.

While I often agree with your disease analogies, I must disagree this time. Joe is better than most guys working in the industry today. He's not sub-par, rather he's quite good. He might be a little overrated, but the guy is still talented as fuck.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Becuase every kid who's dream it is to be a pro wrestler, wants to make a decent living working the Indy Scene so that in 20 years 6 people rememeber who they are. Come on, if Joe is as talented as everyone says he is, then he'll get to where he wants to, the guys has been involved in a program for months with Kurt Angle, for the TNA World Title, but he could do more, right? Joe has been given all the oppertunity needed to make something of himself, and going back to the Indy's, well that would be just fucking retarded.

The truth is the younger guys who wants out of TNA shouldnt even be there anyways, they might have talent, but they are shitty workers, and lack general ring physcology, which is why you see the WWE guys getting hired, not saying they are the best workers in the world, but better then most of the spot monkey X-Division guys.

Anways, I hear all this shit about how Joe is watered down? I don't get it. I used to watch ROH everyday on the FIGHT Network and he was always on their shows, and there isnt that much of a difference. So he doesnt do that rediculous Ole Ole kick, and isnt given mic time to deliver his boring ass promos.

The fact is when you take Joe, and compare him to the top guys today, he doesnt even come close to matching up agaisnt them, he's atleast another 5 years away from even being able to be considered in that class.

So you're taking the Vermaat approach? Nice.

If a guy isn't John Cena, he must be shit.

[IC Champion]

So you're taking the Vermaat approach? Nice.

If a guy isn't John Cena, he must be shit.
Only I can't fucking stand Cena, and never have.

But really, I have come to expect more from you Alienoid, I'm dissapointed.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It's also ridiculous to say that Joe wants more money. Sure, money is never a bad thing, but Joe chose TNA over the WWE. If money was his chief motivating factor, than he would have signed originally with WWE.

Joe going back to the independent scene would be good for him, because his stock would have risen considerably since he's been with TNA. The guy is pretty much the top guy when it comes to independent association (the only guy who comes close is Bryan Danielson). It is a well known fact that money is good in Japan, and if Joe works for Mitsuharu Misawa, he will be fine finance-wise. He would provide ROH with a "star" name. Sure, he may not be huge to the casual fan, but he's someone who has had exposure, and that helps them out a lot. It would also be a big deal in Japan, and despite what feeble minds will tell you, that's not a small deal. That is a country with its own culture, and a guy can more than make a living there.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Only I can't fucking stand Cena, and never have.

But really, I have come to expect more from you Alienoid, I'm dissapointed.

But that is the crux of what you are saying, isn't it? If a guy doesn't make it in the WWE, he's not worth it, and that talent should only be gaged by how successful you are there?

I agree with you not standing Cena, the guy is a piece of shit as is, but disregarding Samoa Joe for a second, is it really unreasonable for guys in TNA's undercard to be upset with how they are being treated? You can't be anti-TNA bringing in main event talent from elsewhere, and anti-undercard guys complaining that the company is going to shit at the same time. It's just a conundrum of logic.

I like you as a poster, I just disgree on your perception of the independent scene quite strongly. Some guys out there still like the business, and don't like the way it has been watered down and reduced to shit anymore than we do. I don't think we should criticise these guys for wanting out of a company that treats them like shit.

[IC Champion]

First and foremost, as of late I have been a big TNA fan, and actually I am enjoying them more then RAW right now. What's go great about the Indy scene? It's a good place for young up and comers to get their start and to learn the business, but as for making a career of it? If you wanted to then fine, but I'm guessing most Indy guys have bigger dreams then working in front of 300 people.

Now, I don't think that just because a guy isn't in WWE that he isn't worth it.
I'm a big Christian fan, I like Angle, but both were WWE, so. But I also like James Storm, Robert Roode, and AJ Styles for the past 3 or 4 months. There's even undercarders I'm high on such as Shelley(Who I liked in ROH)and Chris Sabin, Homicide and even Machismo and Dutt to an extent, along with a few others I'm to lazy to name. And as for the Indy's I like Austin Aries, mainly cause he's the only still left in ROH that I know.

The fact is Indy's dont bring anything to the table for the most part, other then the wide variety of moves they allow their wrestlers to do, but even thats's pointless without physcology, which a majority of the Indy wrestlers lack.

[Innovator]

Joe would be a breath of fresh air amongst the midcard ranks in WWE, and could have some really good matches with guys like Finlay, Hardy, Shelton, even Carlito.

Him and Cena go back to when they first broke into wrestling, so he could put a good word in

[Mercury Bullet]

I think he would be mad over for about 6 months to a year maybe, then the novelty would wear off.

[Kane Knight]

While I often agree with your disease analogies, I must disagree this time. Joe is better than most guys working in the industry today. He's not sub-par, rather he's quite good. He might be a little overrated, but the guy is still talented as fuck.

He's phenomenally overrated. I've watched him in the indies on Youtube, downloaded matches through Soulseek, and yes. He's lost a few steps in the transition to TNA, but he was never all that impressive to begin with. He's really average at best.

[Mr. Nerfect]

He's phenomenally overrated. I've watched him in the indies on Youtube, downloaded matches through Soulseek, and yes. He's lost a few steps in the transition to TNA, but he was never all that impressive to begin with. He's really average at best.

That's your opinion, and that's fair enough, but I think the guy is at least around B+ level in terms of ability.

[Mr. Nerfect]

First and foremost, as of late I have been a big TNA fan, and actually I am enjoying them more then RAW right now. What's go great about the Indy scene? It's a good place for young up and comers to get their start and to learn the business, but as for making a career of it? If you wanted to then fine, but I'm guessing most Indy guys have bigger dreams then working in front of 300 people.

Now, I don't think that just because a guy isn't in WWE that he isn't worth it.
I'm a big Christian fan, I like Angle, but both were WWE, so. But I also like James Storm, Robert Roode, and AJ Styles for the past 3 or 4 months. There's even undercarders I'm high on such as Shelley(Who I liked in ROH)and Chris Sabin, Homicide and even Machismo and Dutt to an extent, along with a few others I'm to lazy to name. And as for the Indy's I like Austin Aries, mainly cause he's the only still left in ROH that I know.

The fact is Indy's dont bring anything to the table for the most part, other then the wide variety of moves they allow their wrestlers to do, but even thats's pointless without physcology, which a majority of the Indy wrestlers lack.

I see what you're saying, but again, I'll compare it to filmmaking. Not every director cares if his movie breaks all kinds of records, and lands him on the cover of some shitty magazine. A director might just want to make a good movie with some meaning behind it, and actors might just want to appear in such films. The independent wrestling scene is a lot like the independent film circuit to the WWE (and even TNA's) Hollywood.

We're getting into psychology again, and I think we both know each other's view on this. I think the independent scene allows for more psychology, as guys are allowed to do whatever they want, and are allowed to string together their matches based on their strengths and talents. In the WWE, everyone is scripted to what the "producers" suggest, and it is a whole lot less organic.

Any guy would theoretically be much better on the indies than in the WWE, because he is allowed to do what he wants to do, and his matches will be his own, and not one with zero psychology, an occasional body slam and a thousand chinlocks. Sure, you might see a lot of guys who fall flat on their face when they try and put on their own matches (I don't see it nearly as often as you seem to, though, I suggest you stop watching shit indie promotions), but a lot of the bigger promotions like ROH, PWG and IWA-MS hire guys with a great understanding of how to structure a match.

When playing with a formula, there is only so far you can go, but when you are throwing out completely fresh ideas, there is no limit to the success you can achieve (quality-wise). I'm not saying that all indies are > than WWE, but they are less controlling and more supportive of their talent to be themselves, and anyone will tell you that is how guys really blossom as performers.

If the WWE hired guys based on talent, and not how much they can bench, and let guys cut their own promos, and wrestle their own matches, every advantage of the independent scene would be lost. Unfortunately, this is no longer the WWE of the Attitude-era, and guys are hired and them slapped with shitty gimmicks and toned down to the point where people complain because they don't impress them. Well, guh, there's only so much you are allowed to do in the WWE.

[Kane Knight]

Well of COURSE it's my opinion.

[IC Champion]

Does Alienoid abuse chemical substances?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Well of COURSE it's my opinion.

Yeah, I'm just saying that you could claim Samoa Joe was responsible for World War II with as much substance behind it. This is where you'd provide evidence as to why you'd limit your opinion of Joe to average, especially when it is well-documented the guy is well above it (you admit so yourself, a guy cannot b overrated unless he is highly rated to begin with). Just saying he is average really isn't good enough.

[Skippord]

Samoa Joe is directly related to Hirohito

fact

[Jordan]

Who says WWE wants Joe anyway?

[St. Jimmy]

Joke:

What's the difference between Pro Wrestling and Necrophilia?

With a necrophile a burial and a release is a good thing.

[BigDaddyCool]

In my opinion Soma Joe is nothing special. He is a big fat banana. Sure he is fat like a somoan. But there is nothing about him that is somoan, he looks more like a fat elvis. Plus, if he is the samoan submission machine, why doesn't he do more submissions than that silly choke?

[The One]

Joe sucks. He sucks in TNA and he would suck in WWE. I suppose if I had to vote I would say send him to WWE since I am more likely to watch TNA than WWE on any given week.

[FourFifty]

Joke:

What's the difference between Pro Wrestling and Necrophilia?

At least people who are into necrophilia will admit it's dead.

[The One]

What's the difference between Pro Wrestling and Necrophilia?

You don't see Wrestling on Monday Nights anymore.

[The One]

What's the difference between Pro Wrestling and Necrophilia?

One is rapping the once lively, loved and in many ways desecrating the memory of who and what it once was...the other is just fucking some dead people.

[The One]

What's the difference between Pro Wrestling and Necrophilia?

There are still people who will pop for necrophilia. :shifty:

[Kane Knight]

Yeah, I'm just saying that you could claim Samoa Joe was responsible for World War II with as much substance behind it. This is where you'd provide evidence as to why you'd limit your opinion of Joe to average, especially when it is well-documented the guy is well above it (you admit so yourself, a guy cannot b overrated unless he is highly rated to begin with). Just saying he is average really isn't good enough.

LOL. Evidence in a subjective discussion. Well-Documented.

LOL WW2.

You are so reaching.

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